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Kiryas Joel, NY - Dissidents' Planned Wedding Draws Ire of KJ Mainstream

Published on:   March 2, 2010 04:09 PM
News Source:  Times Herald Record
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Kiryas Joel, NY - A third wedding is set to be held Wednesday at a new catering hall just outside Kiryas Joel despite warnings from religious authorities that any nuptials performed without their permission will be deemed illegitimate.

The friction began when dissident community members held their first wedding in a school basement on County Route 105 in Woodbury on Jan. 27 — an event that provoked protests in Kiryas Joel and led to a week of heightened state police presence. A second ceremony took place on Feb. 17 without incident.

But that calm will be tested this week when Rabbi Zalman Teitelbaum — the brother and rival of Rabbi Aaron Teitelbaum — the brother and rival of Rabbi Aaron Teitelbaum of Kiryas Joel — ventures out from Brooklyn to officiate at the latest wedding, as dissidents are expecting. Each Teitelbaum brother is recognized by his followers as the grand rebbe, or supreme leader, of the worldwide Satmar Hasidic movement.

Woodbury police, who have assigned liaisons to each faction in Kiryas Joel, know about the upcoming wedding but don’t plan to send officers there unless called for a disturbance, police Chief Robert Kwiatkowski said Monday.

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Read Comments (38)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Not everything should be so political! Let's give shevach to Hashem that B"H another couple is zoiche to build a Bayis Neemon BeYisroel... So if it creates a little machlokes - its not the end of the world "lekkeh kesubeh deloi rumeh bey tigreh!"

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2

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:41 PM Anonymous Says:

The second part of the police chief's comment:

"We have not really had serious problems with either side, and we don't expect any," he said.

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3

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:42 PM Anonymous Says:

To be honest, both brothers are great people they haven thousands of followers, so let's be Calm!

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4

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

“ Not everything should be so political! Let's give shevach to Hashem that B"H another couple is zoiche to build a Bayis Neemon BeYisroel... So if it creates a little machlokes - its not the end of the world "lekkeh kesubeh deloi rumeh bey tigreh!" ”

That's the point! Everybody gets existed with a little politics, look its only a happy day for a Jewish family. Please!

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5

 Mar 02, 2010 at 04:11 PM Square Bear Says:

When Jews misbehave, we go out and act silly and cause, kavayachol, embarrassment to the Creator. When non-Jews misbehave, they go out and murder a bunch of Jews. Mee k'amcha Yisroel

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6

 Mar 02, 2010 at 04:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

“ That's the point! Everybody gets existed with a little politics, look its only a happy day for a Jewish family. Please! ”

Not existing, exited. It's only a mistake. Forgive me.

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7

 Mar 02, 2010 at 05:11 PM SimchaB Says:

Reply to #6: exited means went out. But we forgive you, you probably were excited!

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8

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

“ Not everything should be so political! Let's give shevach to Hashem that B"H another couple is zoiche to build a Bayis Neemon BeYisroel... So if it creates a little machlokes - its not the end of the world "lekkeh kesubeh deloi rumeh bey tigreh!" ”

There is not a political matter this is a halcha question - which the dayan of the kirya which was placed there by the meyased of the kirya said that it is asur.

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9

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:53 PM Anonymous Says:

This shows you who is behind the Machlokes. What has he to come to Kiryas Yoel area to officiate a wedding, just to show his brother - what for? to continue Machlokes. He should the couple to come to Wili if they want him.

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10

 Mar 02, 2010 at 04:32 PM maiven Says:

Beis Shammai and Beis Hillel also had Machlokes. This is a machlokes regarding the halacha if a shtetl has a Rav, can some stranger come in and be mesader kiddushin. The answer is a simple no. However, in Kiryas Yoel, another kehilla was established by the Bnei Yoel who were chased out of the original kehilla. As an independent kehilla, can they invite a respected rav to be mesader keddushin?
This is a Machlokes Leshem Shomayim. This is not dirty Albany politics or Hollywood fights. Give real praise and thanks that we have such noble disputes.

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11

 Mar 02, 2010 at 04:35 PM hanes Says:

great! may hashem bless this couple with all the best, no matter what rabbi they follow,

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12

 Mar 02, 2010 at 04:47 PM Anonymous Says:

I don't understand why its still a news piece its over its a fact let's get over it and forgot nothing will change it

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13

 Mar 02, 2010 at 04:51 PM Yoely Says:

Accourding to the Psak from the the Dayan of KJ Haguan Rabbi Gatzil Berkowits it is not allowed for anyone to be Mesader Kidishen at this wedding except of the Mura D'asra Rabbi Aron Teitelboum. as it was the psak of the first satmar rabbi Joel Teitelboum.

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14

 Mar 02, 2010 at 06:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
maiven Says:

“ Beis Shammai and Beis Hillel also had Machlokes. This is a machlokes regarding the halacha if a shtetl has a Rav, can some stranger come in and be mesader kiddushin. The answer is a simple no. However, in Kiryas Yoel, another kehilla was established by the Bnei Yoel who were chased out of the original kehilla. As an independent kehilla, can they invite a respected rav to be mesader keddushin?
This is a Machlokes Leshem Shomayim. This is not dirty Albany politics or Hollywood fights. Give real praise and thanks that we have such noble disputes. ”

It won't stay "noble" if there is actual fighting amongst the members of the two kehillas. At that point I'd say we're talking chillul hashem instead.

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15

 Mar 02, 2010 at 06:21 PM Snag Says:

"...despite warnings from religious authorities that any nuptials performed without their permission will be deemed illegitimate."

This is complete nonsense. The wedding is completely legitimate, even without a "mesader kiddushin".

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16

 Mar 02, 2010 at 06:23 PM Motti Says:

All I can say is "What a Chillul Hashem that is"!
As an orthodox Jew I can only apologise, to all none Jews, for such behaviour.
There is no place in politics and the Chareidi world should start to sort themselves out! There seem to be more and more problems in our kehillos and that due to our Leaders ignorance of the fact that it is time to grow up, open our eyes and realise that we have the same problems then the none Jews (if not more) and it's time to act.
Forget the Internet, Computers and TV issues, deal with the more important stuff like unneeded wars against one another, due to belonging to a different chassidus, etc..., drugs, spose abuse, etc...
The Rabbonim are to worried to loose money from donators, but Torah should be more important, so get up and speak up against such behaviour!!!!

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17

 Mar 02, 2010 at 06:45 PM sheina yid Says:

Reply to #13  
Yoely Says:

“ Accourding to the Psak from the the Dayan of KJ Haguan Rabbi Gatzil Berkowits it is not allowed for anyone to be Mesader Kidishen at this wedding except of the Mura D'asra Rabbi Aron Teitelboum. as it was the psak of the first satmar rabbi Joel Teitelboum. ”

The psak of the KJ Dayan Berkowitz does not take into account that the Bnei Yoel were mamesh driven out of the main kehilla and they establsihed their own beis medrash as well as their own cemetery. They also have their own list of rabbonim. Until now, having their own kehilla was okay with the Dayan. All of a sudden, when they make their own weddings, they can't have their mesader kedushin ? To me, it's not exactly black and white. Dayan Berkowitz, as well as Rav Aaron, are noigea bedovor, as is the other side. A neutral chusheva Rav, say Rav Yisroel Belsky or Rav Dovid Feinstein should pasken such a shailah.

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18

 Mar 02, 2010 at 07:07 PM an outsider Says:

R' zalmen lieb lost all his respect from me . I mean come on, there is a fight brewing, why pour oil onto it? It used to be R'aron was said to be provoking the fight when he came to willy for yom tov etc.

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19

 Mar 02, 2010 at 07:17 PM Anonymous Says:

What's wrong with having a different Rabbi if it's not within village limits? Apparently this wedding hall is in Woodbury, not KJ. Am I wrong?

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20

 Mar 02, 2010 at 07:20 PM FIRST WITHOUT ROOV Says:

Well the first kidishin in KJ without the ROOV SHLITA ended very nasty so people watch out

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21

 Mar 02, 2010 at 09:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
FIRST WITHOUT ROOV Says:

“ Well the first kidishin in KJ without the ROOV SHLITA ended very nasty so people watch out ”

Gimme a BREAK!

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22

 Mar 02, 2010 at 09:44 PM cohen Says:

If the police come due to a disturbance, I will be upset my tax $s are being wasted.

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23

 Mar 02, 2010 at 09:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Its maybe about money. Another chasene hall means competition.

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24

 Mar 02, 2010 at 11:33 PM Anonymous Says:

The frum world will maybe last 60 years in the U.S. and Israel and that's it. The followers are getting tired of being bullied and lead by leaders who are obsessed and hungry for power and money. Hashem and Torah comes second for these leaders. These two bozos need to stop with this nonsense. They are acting like Romans who have lost their way in pursuit of more power and fame. They are now controlling chalachos as if they are God and will play politics with someones marriage? I would set a precedence and not listen or invite to either of the Titelbaums and let it make it clear that Torah and Hashem is in charge of us and our weddings not their family brand name.

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25

 Mar 03, 2010 at 04:49 AM London Yid Says:

I am not a posek but Rav Getzel Berkowitz is a world class posek. But even if you don't want Reb Aron it is crazy for his younger brother to come to Monroe to stir trouble. Let a neutral Rav be Mesader Kiddushin and Reb Zalman Leib has taken enough from his older brother with the help of his own fathers enemies for him to keep out from being Mesader Kiddushin in Monroe.

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26

 Mar 03, 2010 at 06:05 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

“ Not existing, exited. It's only a mistake. Forgive me. ”

You don't need a mesader kiddushin for a wedding. Al you need is 2 kosher eidim.

Reply »

27

 Mar 03, 2010 at 08:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
maiven Says:

“ Beis Shammai and Beis Hillel also had Machlokes. This is a machlokes regarding the halacha if a shtetl has a Rav, can some stranger come in and be mesader kiddushin. The answer is a simple no. However, in Kiryas Yoel, another kehilla was established by the Bnei Yoel who were chased out of the original kehilla. As an independent kehilla, can they invite a respected rav to be mesader keddushin?
This is a Machlokes Leshem Shomayim. This is not dirty Albany politics or Hollywood fights. Give real praise and thanks that we have such noble disputes. ”

You can say that the machloikis between Aron and Zalmen is l'shem shomayim with a straight face?

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28

 Mar 03, 2010 at 08:58 AM David Says:

Enough with the fighting. It seems with the growing economic problems in the Orthodox world this types of fights are bound to increase/

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29

 Mar 03, 2010 at 09:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Now we know how brothers can hate.

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30

 Mar 03, 2010 at 09:52 AM bp yid Says:

if this is only an halacha sheilah, y does every halacha sheilah in this community involve machlokes? what happened to the days of serious halachic discourse? eiruv in williamsburg? politics. duck meat? politics. arizona vs. long island wheat? politics. the power of a marah d'asra? poltics. sea salt vs. rock salt? politics. KJ chicken mehudar or not? politics. and it doesn't end here. whadaya think our father in heaven thinks of this. every day a bas kol goes out from har chorev and says "woe unto those creatures who embarress my torah". it's time to awaken people!

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31

 Mar 03, 2010 at 10:34 AM shmeil Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

“ There is not a political matter this is a halcha question - which the dayan of the kirya which was placed there by the meyased of the kirya said that it is asur. ”

and the dayan of r' zalman says it's mutar, so keep calm, Bais shama and bais hilel had different hlachick sides and did not throw rocks or denounce each other

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32

 Mar 03, 2010 at 12:36 PM knowitall Says:

Iran, Syria, Hizbollah and Hamas have tens of thousands of rockets pointed at Israel and all they can do is argue about such meaningless nonsense. Maybe life is too good and easy for them that they have the luxury to expend energy on such silliness. Phooey!

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33

 Mar 03, 2010 at 01:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Rebbe Yoelish would be so angry at his sons. This is a busha. The kehillah should do teshuvah.

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34

 Mar 03, 2010 at 01:07 PM PMO Says:

... a pox on BOTH their houses...

This is nonsense. Who gives a hoot who the mesader kiddushin. There are two different communities here. Yes, they have the same roots. Yes, they interwoven. But they are 2 separate kehilos. Just live and let live. Why would I want to have a mesader kiddushin I don't like. If it will take away from the simcha of the chosson and kalloh, how could it possibly be appropriate?

From the level of outrage you think someone tried to have a gay wedding there! These are ehrliche, frum yidden. Let it be!

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35

 Mar 03, 2010 at 01:57 PM Ani V'Afsi Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

“ Rebbe Yoelish would be so angry at his sons. This is a busha. The kehillah should do teshuvah. ”

Correction: R' Yoilish left the world without children. The 2 Rabonim are his grand nephews

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36

 Mar 03, 2010 at 02:45 PM Chestnut Ridge Mom Says:

Reply to #5  
Square Bear Says:

“ When Jews misbehave, we go out and act silly and cause, kavayachol, embarrassment to the Creator. When non-Jews misbehave, they go out and murder a bunch of Jews. Mee k'amcha Yisroel ”

I am a non-jew and I don't "murder a bunch of Jews", when I misbehave. That is just a hateful statement.

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37

 Mar 04, 2010 at 08:01 AM Voice of Reason Says:

Let me interject, since each post seems to be raising more animosity. How did you spend your Purim? Mishloach Manos to family and friends, a little or a lot of drinking, laughing probably, right? Well, many singers and badchonim used the days surrounding Purim to cheer up broken families, sick children, and children of a sick parent. When you read an article as this, and then continue to the hateful posts, how do you think they feel? With all the early deaths and unimaginable tzarus and pain that many in our community are facing, why are we aiding and abetting the maloch hamoves? I am certainly not naive and don't think this issue will just get resolved quickly, but we need to take stock and start helping and liking each other during such hard times. We have enough people that hate us as a whole, and they certainly don't care which Rebbe you follow.

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38

 Mar 04, 2010 at 12:59 PM WJ Says:

I was personally at the wedding. it was a stunning affair.. Those who didnt come because theyre NOT ALLOWED... and THERE RABBI didnt let... FOOLED themselfs!!!!!! U missed out!!!!

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39

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