Stamford Hill, London - Charedim Demand Hebrew, Not Yiddish, Census |
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Stamford Hill, London - After a 110-year absence, the appearance of Yiddish in the 2011 Census has provoked controversy among the strictly Orthodox Stamford Hill community - who would prefer it to be Hebrew.
Stamford Hill community leaders Rabbi Avraham Pinter and Ita Symons decried the measure, achieved after a lengthy consultation process between the Office for National Statistics (ONS), the Board of Deputies and the Institute for Jewish Policy Research, as “tokenism” and “patronising” respectively.
Rabbi Pinter, head of Yesodey Hatorah School, said: “This smacks of political correctness and tokenism. The number who can’t fill out a form in English is quite small.
“It’s far more pressing that it’s translated into Hebrew, as Israelis marrying into the Stamford Hill community can often only read and write in Hebrew.”
Ita Symons, of the Agudas Israel Housing Association, said: “If they are suggesting people can’t read English that’s patronising and incorrect. The real issue is people are either against it or can’t be bothered to do it. They need someone they trust to help them to engage with the process.
“I doubt if there are even 100 families in Stamford Hill who can only read and write in Yiddish,” she added.
The issue surrounding the under-representation of Stamford Hill flared up after the 2001 Census.
In listing “Jewish” as an option under religion for the first time, it recorded the Stamford Hill Jewish population as just 8,000, despite the community asking Hackney Council for facilities catering for 20,000.
A spokesman for the Board said: “We will encourage all members of the community to complete the Census and to answer the question about religion, which is voluntary.
“We will also be in close contact with the Union of Orthodox Hebrew Congregations, Interlink, Agudas Israel Community Services and corresponding organisations in Manchester and Gateshead. We believe the best way to do this is by ensuring the publicity for the Census, and perhaps even the document itself, is in Yiddish.
“The number of people that speak Hebrew but not Yiddish or English will be small, but we are happy to make representations to the ONS if there is a significant section of the community only able to communicate in Hebrew.”
David Graham, director of social and demographic research at IJPR and a co-author of its report on the last Census, said: “I am very pleased. It shows that the ONS are accommodating the views of various groups, and we should be very pleased that it considers accurate enumeration of the Jewish community as a priority.”
He explained: “There was a suspected undercount of Charedim in the 2001 Census, particularly in Stamford Hill and Broughton Park to the order of an estimated 30 to 40 per cent.”
ONS asked them if it would make a difference if a form were produced in Hebrew, but IJPR suggested Yiddish. “I think the community would appreciate the effort and it would probably help the work of encouraging as many Jewish people as possible to respond.”
The Census data was important in helping local authorities to determine where to spend on services.
“The underenumeration of Jews in Hackney had very serious implications for the local authority in how they chose to distribute their money,” Dr Graham said.
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Read Comments (13) — Post Yours »
1
Mar 04, 2010 at 05:52 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Blimey! Are there any Cockney-Yiddish speaking Jews out there?
2
Mar 04, 2010 at 06:04 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Q: Makht a tsetl fun ale nemen, arayn-gerekhnt aykh aleyn un arayngerekhnt kinder, eyfelekh un lokatorn.
Including yourself, list all the names, including children, babies and lodgers.
Q: Vi kern zikh on di bney-bayes do eyner mitn tsveytn?
How are members of this household related to each other?
3
Mar 04, 2010 at 06:11 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Last census, we had an older taker. He asked what languages we speak. We said Hebrew, English, Yiddish. He said he could only wrote down two and skipped the Hebrew. We told him it's our primary language and he said it doesn't matter.
In other words, it's all a baloney story anyway.
4
Mar 04, 2010 at 07:15 PM SimchaB Says:Report as Inappropriate
#2 Her oif mit dayne verterbuch Yiddish! Kayner redt nisht azoy!
5
Mar 04, 2010 at 10:42 PM Shmoiger Says:Report as Inappropriate
I speak Yiddish as my main language, I wad at an ATM machine in BP that had a choice if languages, I chose Yiddish and couldn't understand one word it said on the screen. It must have been some Russian Yiddish from 300 years ago. I suppose the census had a similar Yiddish as a previous poster gave an example.
6
Mar 04, 2010 at 11:37 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I speak Yiddish as my main language, I wad at an ATM machine in BP that had a choice if languages, I chose Yiddish and couldn't understand one word it said on the screen. It must have been some Russian Yiddish from 300 years ago. I suppose the census had a similar Yiddish as a previous poster gave an example. ”
The Yiddish was probably with proper grammar translated by hired university professors, and not the street Yiddish that most speak in BP.
7
Mar 04, 2010 at 11:51 PM Babishka Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I speak Yiddish as my main language, I wad at an ATM machine in BP that had a choice if languages, I chose Yiddish and couldn't understand one word it said on the screen. It must have been some Russian Yiddish from 300 years ago. I suppose the census had a similar Yiddish as a previous poster gave an example. ”
The silly academics at YIVO has created an "official Yiddish" which is totally unlike the Yiddish that is spoken in real life.
I once tried to read a book published in "Soviet Yiddish" of the 1960's. It was totally incomprehensible. They changed all the Ivri words to "Yiddish" spelling, which was not only ridiculous but impossible to read.
8
Mar 05, 2010 at 12:00 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is actually very nice of the census board to do for the Yiddish speakers. We all know that many chassidim do not speak any English. I often fun into trouble at my trips to Satmar, because nobody out of the ten people at the table could speak one word of English except my host!
9
Mar 05, 2010 at 04:20 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
So "tokenism" and "patronising" of Yiddish speakers is in poor taste, but "tokenism" and "patronising" of Hebrew speakers is OK?
Aside form that, this whole article "goes me not on".
10
Mar 05, 2010 at 04:54 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Blimey! Are there any Cockney-Yiddish speaking Jews out there? ”
Yes, Me!!!!!!
11
Mar 05, 2010 at 05:03 AM londoner Says:Report as Inappropriate
Don't worry. It doesn't matter. Hardly anybody fills in these forms anyhow. The return rate is about 20%.
12
Mar 05, 2010 at 09:26 AM FVNMS Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ So "tokenism" and "patronising" of Yiddish speakers is in poor taste, but "tokenism" and "patronising" of Hebrew speakers is OK?
Aside form that, this whole article "goes me not on". ”
mir oich nisht...
Yiddish is easily 50% the local language. How many Yiddish speakers (especially the 30-and-under crowd) can translate the following:
1. UMBRELLA
2. CUCUMBER
3. BELL
4. TOWER
5. COAT
6. SHOULDERS
7. ORANGE (the fruit)
8. FLOOR
9. TUNNEL
10. NEWSPAPER
13
Mar 05, 2010 at 01:07 PM Shmoiger Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ mir oich nisht...
Yiddish is easily 50% the local language. How many Yiddish speakers (especially the 30-and-under crowd) can translate the following:
1. UMBRELLA
2. CUCUMBER
3. BELL
4. TOWER
5. COAT
6. SHOULDERS
7. ORANGE (the fruit)
8. FLOOR
9. TUNNEL
10. NEWSPAPER ”
Those words can be translated by the average Yiddish speaking boroparker. Shirem, igrekes, marantz, pleitzers, etc. These are words that are constantly used, I was referring to much stranger words than those.