“ I will keep my mouth shut and not blame anyone here before I know REAL FACTS! Now I know some ppl here are going to be wise and start giving their opinions... If u don't have 100% facts evidence etc keep quiet. ”

“ All I can say is, if he is indeed guilt, let him rot in hell. If he is not, I am mekana his oilem haba ”

“ Wow. The shmitz is finally hitting the fan. Let the debates begin. I just have one request:
Everybody is entitled to an opinion. But agree or not, however upset you are for either side, please remember one thing: DO NOT TURN THE VICTIMS INTO THE BAD GUYS! ”

“ Before condemning or condoning just remember for a minute that there are innocent surrounding family members - wife, children, grandchildren, siblings - who are humiliated and hurting terribly right now. Remember: your gossip is someone else's pain. Lets show some strength of character in bain adam lachveiro and leave the negativity and judging up to the court system and the ultimate judge, Hashem. Chazak to whoever the true victims are... ”

“ wake up, it happens it is real and has been going on for ages. The internet just exposed it, just like it exposed the church

whether this guy is guilty or not molestation seems to be a problem in the frum community. And the community need to deal with it since the robonum are doing nothing, and as a matter of fact helping the molester. ”

“ Don't speak before you know the facts. And by the way, he is being held till his sentencing because he is a flight risk, this is the new craze about jews: they are all flight risks. Today its him, tomorroe its someone else. And another point to think of, the victim was caught lying about the summer months, how could he be credible for the rest? I am not saying that the guy molested, or did not molest. I just heard that there was very little evidence and a jury that likes to convict any Rabbi... All I am saying is, don't jump to conclusions. ”

“ Before condemning or condoning just remember for a minute that there are innocent surrounding family members - wife, children, grandchildren, siblings - who are humiliated and hurting terribly right now. Remember: your gossip is someone else's pain. Lets show some strength of character in bain adam lachveiro and leave the negativity and judging up to the court system and the ultimate judge, Hashem. Chazak to whoever the true victims are... ”

“ Before condemning or condoning just remember for a minute that there are innocent surrounding family members - wife, children, grandchildren, siblings - who are humiliated and hurting terribly right now. Remember: your gossip is someone else's pain. Lets show some strength of character in bain adam lachveiro and leave the negativity and judging up to the court system and the ultimate judge, Hashem. Chazak to whoever the true victims are... ”

“ Before condemning or condoning just remember for a minute that there are innocent surrounding family members - wife, children, grandchildren, siblings - who are humiliated and hurting terribly right now. Remember: your gossip is someone else's pain. Lets show some strength of character in bain adam lachveiro and leave the negativity and judging up to the court system and the ultimate judge, Hashem. Chazak to whoever the true victims are... ”

“ i was there throughout the proceedings and its completly mind boggling that he was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt,the only explanation possible is the jury was biased being that he looks so chasidish and he was called a rabbi,i challenge anyone that was there to say otherwise ”

“ דברים י"ז) וכל העם ישמעו ויראו וגו',

the Torah doesn't worry about the feelings of the family, the guilty should be strung up and publicized, so people will see and understand that ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!

If this guy was at it for 32 years, I find it hard to believe that his family are so innocent either.

In any case, the safety of children is more important than the anguish of one family.

NAME HIM, POST HIS PICTURE EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!! ”

“ It is obvious, that either you snoozed while sitting in the court room, or you don’t have any common sense. If someone testifies that he was molested, that by itself is considered evidence, and if the jury makes a determination that they believe the victim, then legally they could find him guilty, even without any physical evidences. How would you expect any molester to be tried and found guilty, if you would only find him guilty if you have physical evidence, or other witnesses to the act? Usually molester don’t molest in front of others they are discreet, and sometimes years elapses before the victim speaks up. ”

“ It seems rather pointless to have these discussions, where every person that raises issues with the due process is labelled a friend of the molesters, and persecuting the victims, etc. etc....

Additionally, let's get one thing straight - if the kid was 16, odds are he knew EXACTLY what he was getting into. I'm not saying it in any way casts the abuser - IF IT HAPPENED - in a better light, but it's certainly not the same as a Rebbe who preyed on 7-year olds. ”

“ It is obvious, that either you snoozed while sitting in the court room, or you don’t have any common sense. If someone testifies that he was molested, that by itself is considered evidence, and if the jury makes a determination that they believe the victim, then legally they could find him guilty, even without any physical evidences. How would you expect any molester to be tried and found guilty, if you would only find him guilty if you have physical evidence, or other witnesses to the act? Usually molester don’t molest in front of others they are discreet, and sometimes years elapses before the victim speaks up. ”

“ Does that make sense? Where is the proof? The fact that they usually do not do it in public is a problem, but this is not the solution. ”

“ "The two not-guilty verdicts applied to charges during the summer months of 2004, when testimony showed that the victim was at an upstate camp with limited ability to visit Brooklyn. "

IF THE VICTIM LIED AND WAS PROVED A LIER ON THESE 2 CHARGES, THEN WHY ISN'T THE SO CALLED VICTIM A LIER ON ALL THE OTHER CHARGES??

I smell something fishy and think this was an attemped to extored money!!! ”

“ "The two not-guilty verdicts applied to charges during the summer months of 2004, when testimony showed that the victim was at an upstate camp with limited ability to visit Brooklyn. "

IF THE VICTIM LIED AND WAS PROVED A LIER ON THESE 2 CHARGES, THEN WHY ISN'T THE SO CALLED VICTIM A LIER ON ALL THE OTHER CHARGES??

I smell something fishy and think this was an attemped to extored money!!! ”

“ i was there throughout the proceedings and its completly mind boggling that he was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt,the only explanation possible is the jury was biased being that he looks so chasidish and he was called a rabbi,i challenge anyone that was there to say otherwise ”

“ Right, but Wrong!
As Torah Jews, the victim's words have no value, unless there are witnesses. If you don't like it, go complain to G-d! The Chasam Sofer rules that this is also the case when secular court judge a jew, they must use witnesses, otherwise they are not keeping the Noahidic Laws. ”

“ mr. 34 let's see what you gonna say if you would be the father of the victim. don't hak in kop about toirah. as long we are not allowed to go to court. in the din toirah you have to have witness. let's hope he wouldn't be ruled for 32 years zats nisht azoi shlacht . bsiras toivois ”

“ It seems rather pointless to have these discussions, where every person that raises issues with the due process is labelled a friend of the molesters, and persecuting the victims, etc. etc....

Additionally, let's get one thing straight - if the kid was 16, odds are he knew EXACTLY what he was getting into. I'm not saying it in any way casts the abuser - IF IT HAPPENED - in a better light, but it's certainly not the same as a Rebbe who preyed on 7-year olds. ”

“ It seems rather pointless to have these discussions, where every person that raises issues with the due process is labelled a friend of the molesters, and persecuting the victims, etc. etc....

Additionally, let's get one thing straight - if the kid was 16, odds are he knew EXACTLY what he was getting into. I'm not saying it in any way casts the abuser - IF IT HAPPENED - in a better light, but it's certainly not the same as a Rebbe who preyed on 7-year olds. ”

“ "The two not-guilty verdicts applied to charges during the summer months of 2004, when testimony showed that the victim was at an upstate camp with limited ability to visit Brooklyn. "

IF THE VICTIM LIED AND WAS PROVED A LIER ON THESE 2 CHARGES, THEN WHY ISN'T THE SO CALLED VICTIM A LIER ON ALL THE OTHER CHARGES??

I smell something fishy and think this was an attemped to extored money!!! ”

“ Wow. The shmitz is finally hitting the fan. Let the debates begin. I just have one request:
Everybody is entitled to an opinion. But agree or not, however upset you are for either side, please remember one thing: DO NOT TURN THE VICTIMS INTO THE BAD GUYS! ”

“ Btw YOU should wake up and see that this is not a problem by us ppl...its a problem by everyone that has it.. Read the news and see how many ongoing *** abuse and molestation cases all over not by us only. ”

“ I will keep my mouth shut and not blame anyone here before I know REAL FACTS! Now I know some ppl here are going to be wise and start giving their opinions... If u don't have 100% facts evidence etc keep quiet. ”

“ It is obvious, that either you snoozed while sitting in the court room, or you don’t have any common sense. If someone testifies that he was molested, that by itself is considered evidence, and if the jury makes a determination that they believe the victim, then legally they could find him guilty, even without any physical evidences. How would you expect any molester to be tried and found guilty, if you would only find him guilty if you have physical evidence, or other witnesses to the act? Usually molester don’t molest in front of others they are discreet, and sometimes years elapses before the victim speaks up. ”

“ It is obvious, that either you snoozed while sitting in the court room, or you don’t have any common sense. If someone testifies that he was molested, that by itself is considered evidence, and if the jury makes a determination that they believe the victim, then legally they could find him guilty, even without any physical evidences. How would you expect any molester to be tried and found guilty, if you would only find him guilty if you have physical evidence, or other witnesses to the act? Usually molester don’t molest in front of others they are discreet, and sometimes years elapses before the victim speaks up. ”

“ Btw YOU should wake up and see that this is not a problem by us ppl...its a problem by everyone that has it.. Read the news and see how many ongoing *** abuse and molestation cases all over not by us only. ”

“ Don't speak before you know the facts. And by the way, he is being held till his sentencing because he is a flight risk, this is the new craze about jews: they are all flight risks. Today its him, tomorroe its someone else. And another point to think of, the victim was caught lying about the summer months, how could he be credible for the rest? I am not saying that the guy molested, or did not molest. I just heard that there was very little evidence and a jury that likes to convict any Rabbi... All I am saying is, don't jump to conclusions. ”

“ i was there throughout the proceedings and its completly mind boggling that he was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt,the only explanation possible is the jury was biased being that he looks so chasidish and he was called a rabbi,i challenge anyone that was there to say otherwise ”

“ This guy (and so all other with the same problem) need medical and physicist help, Not prison. I was molested as a young boy and as a teenager and I would never ever want my abuser to spend even one day in prison for what he did. And BH I don't need any therapy, those who do need therapy would've probably needed it regardless of them being abused. I can never understand what joy someone might have to put a man behind bars for the rest of his life. ”

“ if you read the story in the daily news it says there was no dna evidence no eyewitness ,, only the testiomony of a person who is now in drug rehab??? seriously if anyone who has knowledge can shed some light please do?? this story just makes no sense??!!!! ”

“ i agree with ST. we dont know the truth. many times the courts have found innocent people guilty. there is an asian saying, ' not everyone behind bars are guilty, nor everyone walking free innocent.' ”

“ the problem is that it must be publicized to protect other children, that is why we have the registry of sex offenders


"Before condemning or condoning just remember for a minute that there are innocent surrounding family members - wife, children, grandchildren, siblings - who are humiliated and hurting terribly right now."

true but this the case in every criminal case.



Question for you, did you feel the same when the guy who sold the trief chickens was publicized, feel bad for his wife family? ”

“ The guy was 16, he had to know what was happening. ”

“ I spoke to a friend of mine who was in the court room and he told me that the jury was made up of 10 blacks and 2 whites. When Yankel Rosenbaum was killed by Lemeric Nelson yemach shmoy the Black Jury freed him on the murder charge and they all went out to eat to celebrate a Jews death. When OJ killed his wife the black jury found him innocent. The Jury system is made up of low lives and people not trained in the law. Anyone can make up a story about someone and claim they were molested.In New york any wife can go to the police and have her husband arrested on false charges. This is sodom. ”

“ And how could you prevent a guy from fabricating a story against SM1if you just take his word? How would you feel if SM1 charges you and you didn't do anything? (not saying this is the case here) there was a story now that a woman who testified again abuse and now she came clean and said she fabricated the story?! ”

“ This guy (and so all other with the same problem) need medical and physicist help, Not prison. I was molested as a young boy and as a teenager and I would never ever want my abuser to spend even one day in prison for what he did. And BH I don't need any therapy, those who do need therapy would've probably needed it regardless of them being abused. I can never understand what joy someone might have to put a man behind bars for the rest of his life. ”

“ I don't know about American law but English criminal evidence law says quite clearly "What one person says about another person is NOT evidence" There MUST be independant corroborative evidence. Victims' evidence is admitted but unless corroborated by other evidence e.g. medical or police reports etc. the judge MUST order the jury to ignore the alleged victims' testimony.

Check in C.M. Hilchos Eidus and you will find roughly the same thing.

There is a special gezeiras hakosuv (in "criminal" cases e.g. chilul Shabbos or chayvei malkos) of 2 witnesses who MUST be completely independant. They must not be related etc. and are subjected to rigorous cross-examination by the judges (who are supposed to be objective, not by counsel who just want to win) before their evidence is even admitted. ”

“ To discern between testimony and decide if to believe the victim/witness that is actually the job of the jury, after listening to all the evidence and the summations from both sides and the Judge instructions on the law then and only then the jury will judge the case and decide if there is enough evidence to convict the defendant beyond a reasonable doubt. And our systems is based on the understanding that during direct/cross examination both sides should elicits what is most favorable to them, and based on that the jury could make an informed decision based on what each witness said on the stand and the victim is considered a witness like any other witness. ”

“ This guy (and so all other with the same problem) need medical and physicist help, Not prison. I was molested as a young boy and as a teenager and I would never ever want my abuser to spend even one day in prison for what he did. And BH I don't need any therapy, those who do need therapy would've probably needed it regardless of them being abused. I can never understand what joy someone might have to put a man behind bars for the rest of his life. ”

“ 32 years??? Wow!!! ”

“ I don't know about American law but English criminal evidence law says quite clearly "What one person says about another person is NOT evidence" There MUST be independant corroborative evidence. Victims' evidence is admitted but unless corroborated by other evidence e.g. medical or police reports etc. the judge MUST order the jury to ignore the alleged victims' testimony.

Check in C.M. Hilchos Eidus and you will find roughly the same thing.

There is a special gezeiras hakosuv (in "criminal" cases e.g. chilul Shabbos or chayvei malkos) of 2 witnesses who MUST be completely independant. They must not be related etc. and are subjected to rigorous cross-examination by the judges (who are supposed to be objective, not by counsel who just want to win) before their evidence is even admitted. ”

“ Thank you brave victims for making the world a wee bit safer for my children. ”

“ Before condemning or condoning just remember for a minute that there are innocent surrounding family members - wife, children, grandchildren, siblings - who are humiliated and hurting terribly right now. Remember: your gossip is someone else's pain. Lets show some strength of character in bain adam lachveiro and leave the negativity and judging up to the court system and the ultimate judge, Hashem. Chazak to whoever the true victims are... ”

“ Very sad - he should have taken the plea deal. I hope the judge shows mercy ”

“ In that case of that woman who admitted that she falsely fabricated a rape charge on a man who was already sitting 4years in jail, there also the jury believed the woman. And now they come across like fools ”

“ The point is our screwed up justice system, not one single piece of evidence was entered into evidence, no witness, no dna, no proof, nada, one individuals word against another, not to go into this specific case, have we fallen so low, to convict a person just on the word of an accuser, if we don't need any proof or evidence, where does it stop ”

“ This guy (and so all other with the same problem) need medical and physicist help, Not prison. I was molested as a young boy and as a teenager and I would never ever want my abuser to spend even one day in prison for what he did. And BH I don't need any therapy, those who do need therapy would've probably needed it regardless of them being abused. I can never understand what joy someone might have to put a man behind bars for the rest of his life. ”

“ Right, but Wrong!
As Torah Jews, the victim's words have no value, unless there are witnesses. If you don't like it, go complain to G-d! The Chasam Sofer rules that this is also the case when secular court judge a jew, they must use witnesses, otherwise they are not keeping the Noahidic Laws. ”

“ Hey, people, stop blaming the victims!!! Our community teaches children to have absolute respect for Rebbes and gedolim. If a 16 year old is suddenly touched by a rebbe he is likely terrified and unsure what to do. It is bad enough when people deny that the abuse happens, but to now blame the victim is a new low!! And do not deny that this is blaming the victim; Shame on you. For all you people worried about the Rebbe's families reading these comments and being embarrased. Have you ever considered that the victim or his family reads these comments and is victimized even further? It is unbelievable the lengths that the frum community will go to deny that it has a problem. For shame!!! ”

“ Remember, one day you might find yourself behind bars just because someone might say that you molested him. It is the easiest way to get even or revenge on anyone. ”

“ You were either not molested or you are c"v doing the same to others now. A true victim would not write the above..... ”

“ It is obvious, that either you snoozed while sitting in the court room, or you don’t have any common sense. If someone testifies that he was molested, that by itself is considered evidence, and if the jury makes a determination that they believe the victim, then legally they could find him guilty, even without any physical evidences. How would you expect any molester to be tried and found guilty, if you would only find him guilty if you have physical evidence, or other witnesses to the act? Usually molester don’t molest in front of others they are discreet, and sometimes years elapses before the victim speaks up. ”

“ i agree with ST. we dont know the truth. many times the courts have found innocent people guilty. there is an asian saying, ' not everyone behind bars are guilty, nor everyone walking free innocent.' ”

“ I never said that the system is 100% foul prove, yes there are always a very small percentage that could be innocent, but by far the guilty are found guilty, but you seem to take the side of the minority and regardless the facts that this man will be tried again for two more molestations, on *two* different children, but you still try to argue that he was set up. Facts and logic cries out for the victim. But you will argue about a singular case were a woman/wife did fabricated a story, that is what I am perplexed about. If you are not family with this defendant, how could you in good conscience even think that this young man would make up a story, which only brings shame on him and his family. ”

“ It seems rather pointless to have these discussions, where every person that raises issues with the due process is labelled a friend of the molesters, and persecuting the victims, etc. etc....

Additionally, let's get one thing straight - if the kid was 16, odds are he knew EXACTLY what he was getting into. I'm not saying it in any way casts the abuser - IF IT HAPPENED - in a better light, but it's certainly not the same as a Rebbe who preyed on 7-year olds. ”

“ Wow. The shmitz is finally hitting the fan. Let the debates begin. I just have one request:
Everybody is entitled to an opinion. But agree or not, however upset you are for either side, please remember one thing: DO NOT TURN THE VICTIMS INTO THE BAD GUYS! ”

“ You are indeed a righteous man. Making sure of the one thing that counts the most. Not turning the victims into bad people. Many people have been molested, hurt, and victimized, and don't come forward only due to fact that this community kills them for it. Its about time people with your opinion stood up. May you be blessed. ”

“ Just to make things clear: The perpatrator in this case was NOT the victims Rebbe. He was a classmate of the perps son. He is also not a "Rabbi". He is a travel agent who happens to have a big scragly beard. He was never respected by his peers and was not an authority figure. He was born an orphan (his father died before he was born), so we can only imagine what horor he endured as a child. Its the vicious cycle all over again.

Although the crime is reprehensible, the reality is that there was no coersion alledged in this case. The boy was attracted to the perp for a reason. And it is not the "abuse" that messed him up, but rather his unconventional predilictions. Many failures in society feel it neccessary to vinicate themselves by projecting their own failures on someone else. This is quite a common phenomenon. Of course this perp is a pig, but he posed no danger to unsuspecting children. He pursued his own perversions with other like minded pervs. One of who was bound to end up messed up. In the end it came back to bite him.

This is the reality we are living in nowadays. ”

“ Molestation is not rape. There usually is no DNA in these cases because the victims are scared and don't immediately report it. After the passage of time, DNA is destroyed. There are also rarely if ever witnesses to a case like this. This is a crime that takes place in secret behind closed doors. People don't do this with eyewitnesses around.

That there was testimony from someone now in drug rehab does not mean their testimony is worthless. The rabbi's attorney had the opportunity to impeach the witness, but obviously the jury believed him regardless of his current drug issues. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. ”

“ Molestation is not rape. There usually is no DNA in these cases because the victims are scared and don't immediately report it. After the passage of time, DNA is destroyed. There are also rarely if ever witnesses to a case like this. This is a crime that takes place in secret behind closed doors. People don't do this with eyewitnesses around.

That there was testimony from someone now in drug rehab does not mean their testimony is worthless. The rabbi's attorney had the opportunity to impeach the witness, but obviously the jury believed him regardless of his current drug issues. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. ”

“ That is the reason we should all take jury duty seriously. Don't complain about the jury when you try to get out of participating yourself. ”

“ HAVING ATTENDED THE WHOLE TRIAL AND SEEING THAT THE ONLY WITNESS IS A RABBI A..... A MENAHEL WHO HIMSELF SIGNED A DOCUMENT TO BAIS DIN CONFESSING HE WAS A MOLESTOR WAS SO CRUCIAL IN THE JURY CONVICTING THE MOLESTOR IN JUST ONE HOUR THE LESSON IS THAT ALL THOSE WHO TRY TO COVERUP THE CRIMES WILL BE EXPOSED AND PROSECUTED,
THE WALL OF SILENCE MUST COME DOWN ”

“ is this crazy or what a 16 year old has a mind of his own, 32 years for willingly having sex, unless this was a rape, in most democratic countries you can get married at this age. in some places age 14 is age for consent, hell I was married at 16, should my husband go to jail?. Its so painful when we go to the goyim, ”

“ Just to make things clear: The perpatrator in this case was NOT the victims Rebbe. He was a classmate of the perps son. He is also not a "Rabbi". He is a travel agent who happens to have a big scragly beard. He was never respected by his peers and was not an authority figure. He was born an orphan (his father died before he was born), so we can only imagine what horor he endured as a child. Its the vicious cycle all over again.

Although the crime is reprehensible, the reality is that there was no coersion alledged in this case. The boy was attracted to the perp for a reason. And it is not the "abuse" that messed him up, but rather his unconventional predilictions. Many failures in society feel it neccessary to vinicate themselves by projecting their own failures on someone else. This is quite a common phenomenon. Of course this perp is a pig, but he posed no danger to unsuspecting children. He pursued his own perversions with other like minded pervs. One of who was bound to end up messed up. In the end it came back to bite him.

This is the reality we are living in nowadays. ”

“ Oh! my G-D, you have totally and so well expressed my opinion and my own feelings!
And believe me, I, very well know, am suffering and will continue for the rest of my life suffer, the results of these matters, today exactly 25 years!!! ”

“ Good point. But what is stopping your worst enemy who is a good liar from bringing charges against you? ”

“ Btw YOU should wake up and see that this is not a problem by us ppl...its a problem by everyone that has it.. Read the news and see how many ongoing *** abuse and molestation cases all over not by us only. ”

“ It won't help. They will never ever allow a religious Jew to be in the Jury on another religious Jew. That's why the system is unfair. They will allow an all black jury on a black case but will not allow even one Jew on a Jewish case.

P.S. I'm not referring to this case but in general to the point you make about taking jury duty seriously. Jury duty as it applies to a religious Jewish a joke, and the joke is on us.
The Magna Carta still hasn't provided us the same rights as everyone else. ”

“ as i wrote here in the past i was molested over 50 years ago at the age of 10 and the anger is still with me the people whom we trust the most our rabbis and teachers if they can do something so unimaginable then whom can we trust its a cruel world out there ”

“ Rav Wosner paskened that a crime that occurs between four eyes - an Isha and a Katan can be believed witout witnessess. ”

“ "Molestation is not rape."

That is not entirely true. If there was no consent, it was rape. If the boy did not fight back out of fear or due to threats, it is RAPE by law. Secondly, having sex with a 16 year old is always STATUTORY rape under the law and we all know it. ”

“ You are so wrong. In each case a an attorney is allowed to challenge a specific number of jurors for no reason (so long as that reason does not include race or religion), Other than that they can only challenge a juror if they can find a cause. Cause means that you cannot be fair. The law will allow an all black jury, an all Jewish jury etc. The reason there are few Jews on juries is that most find a way off. I have heard all sorts of excuses why middle class people do not want to sit on juries. Yes, so long as people like you decide your time is too valuable to waste in court there will be few Yidden on juries. It isn't the magna carta, it is that you want off. ”

“ We are ALL guilty. We know the truth of what is going on in our communities and sweep it under the rug. Some of you pretend as if this the first ever such case to happen. ”

“ For a very long time frum Yidden thought that the US laws did not pertain to them and they could do whatever they liked either financially or sexually. Now the US Government has had enough, and you are crying. Well mend your ways and Hashem and the US Government will not go after you. ”

“ Yesterday was such a honest day in what is really going on in our communities.

In Albany, Yaakov Weiss was sentenced to the worst sentencing he can get, with a plea bargain, and Mr Leibovitz was found guilty on 8/10 accounts. In both cases, the majority of the support in the courtroom was very obviously for the accused. Yet, with that, justice was served. Its a shame we need to go to non Jewish courts for some Justice to be served. Beis Din only knows how to protect abusers and shove things under the carpet. They force us to do mesirah. In this case, Mesirah is a mitzvah. ”

“ Where and when did Rav Wosner pasken this? Chapter and verse with mareh mekoimois please. ”

“ It won't help. They will never ever allow a religious Jew to be in the Jury on another religious Jew. That's why the system is unfair. They will allow an all black jury on a black case but will not allow even one Jew on a Jewish case.

P.S. I'm not referring to this case but in general to the point you make about taking jury duty seriously. Jury duty as it applies to a religious Jewish a joke, and the joke is on us.
The Magna Carta still hasn't provided us the same rights as everyone else. ”

“ I'm talking from personal experience. I have answered every call for jury duty, and got dismissed just like that. When Lemerick Nelson murdered Yankel Rosenbaum an all black jury freed him on the murder charge. Would one Jew have been permitted on that jury? The answer is no. If it had been in reverse and Yankel Rosenbaum would have murdered Lemerick Nelson, then would they have allowed ONE single Jew on the jury? The answer again is no. Would they have allowed an all black jury? The answer is yes. So tell me, isn’t the system stacked against a Jew, and especially a frum Jew?

Again I’m not defending this man, only pointing out why the system isn’t fair to us. Even if he is guilty, we shouldn’t be proud of an unfair system where we don’t have the same rights as others. Someone once saw his house burning, so he started jumping for joy saying “ah nekooma in di vantzen”, revenge in the bedbugs, they’re burning too. While this jury might have issued a correct verdict, the choice of jurors was majorly flawed, and we shouldn’t support that. Right now it’s open season on the sickos among us, tomorrow it will be open season on the rest of us. We will sleep in the bed we made for ourselves. ”

“ I really dont get your question, of course did any yid with a bit of heart feel terrible for the entire family of the one who sold treif chickens! ”

“ This is a huge chillul hashem. But if the desecrator happens to be a professed Torah observer or, even worse, a so-called scholar of the Torah, then the Chillul Hashem is mamash gevaldig grois Hashem help us already ”

“ And this is what you take away from yesterday, that mesirah is a mitzvah? Pity you.

What do you want Beis Din to do? Do they have any power to administer corporal punishment? Does any Beis Din have jurisdiction over anyone? It's easy to say that "Beis Din only knows how to protect abusers and shove things under the carpet" but can you tell us which Beis Din please. ”

“ Its a shame that someone has to say not only by us. It should of been only by them and not by us. ”

“ You are right that it is a world-wide problem that knows no creed, BUT, it is ONLY the Jews who defend the molesters. ONLY the Jews write letters and beg judges and condem children.....that is your legacy. You know how many MILLIONS of catholics left the church when they found out the church heads shuffled around the priests as opposed to bringing them to justice?? MILLIONS!! In your sick world you crawl out of the woodwork claiming these sickos are special people and are bing framed. You are just as dangerous to your children as these creeps are. Just keep burying your head in the sand....your future generations will be a bunch of impaired addicts with intimacy issues. ”

“ I spoke to a friend of mine who was in the court room and he told me that the jury was made up of 10 blacks and 2 whites. When Yankel Rosenbaum was killed by Lemeric Nelson yemach shmoy the Black Jury freed him on the murder charge and they all went out to eat to celebrate a Jews death. When OJ killed his wife the black jury found him innocent. The Jury system is made up of low lives and people not trained in the law. Anyone can make up a story about someone and claim they were molested.In New york any wife can go to the police and have her husband arrested on false charges. This is sodom. ”

“ דברים י"ז) וכל העם ישמעו ויראו וגו',

the Torah doesn't worry about the feelings of the family, the guilty should be strung up and publicized, so people will see and understand that ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!

If this guy was at it for 32 years, I find it hard to believe that his family are so innocent either.

In any case, the safety of children is more important than the anguish of one family.

NAME HIM, POST HIS PICTURE EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!! ”

“ its ekeldig even if its true noone wants their children to know what this subject is all about so all of you please start getting ready for peasach and stop with this nonsense ”

“ Don't tarnish an entire community. If you thought that the US laws do not apply to you, doesn't mean that everyone thought so too. Talk only for yourself. ”

“ its ekeldig even if its true noone wants their children to know what this subject is all about so all of you please start getting ready for peasach and stop with this nonsense ”

“ No, it is entirely true. Rape and molestation have entirely different mens rea involved on the part of the accused and have entirely different elements. They are not the same thing at all, hence the fact that they are different crimes.

No having sexual relations with a 16 year old is not always statutory rape either. The age required for that charge depends on the jurisdiction. 16 is age of consent in many states.

I think this guy is a criminal, but making specious legal arguments doesn't bolster your point. ”

“ How can you say something like this. Regardless if he is innocent or guilty, His family is innocent. They are victims here just like any of his other victims. They are going through shame that you can't immagine and are being shunned for crimes they did not do and did not know about. You should be ashamed of yourself for your complete disregard to thier feelings. I agree that criminals should be punished but thier families shouldn't. ”

“ Actually, I do want my children to know what this is about. I want them to know that while most people are trust-worthy and kind, there are some people, even frum jews, who may try to do bad things, including touching them inappropriately. They should know that I will no punish them or go crazy on them if they come to me and tell that someone touched them in a private area. Instead, I will do what i can to protect them and make sure it never happens to them again by this person.

Perhaps if we did want our children to know about this they would be more armed with the ability to yell no and come for help when someone violates them. So I disagree with your comment as far as children knowing about this. Now, whether it is necessary to have 154 comments on one post is a different story. But if these back and forths convince even one more person to make sure thier kids are safe, then it is a good thing. ”

“ I spoke to a friend of mine who was in the court room and he told me that the jury was made up of 10 blacks and 2 whites. When Yankel Rosenbaum was killed by Lemeric Nelson yemach shmoy the Black Jury freed him on the murder charge and they all went out to eat to celebrate a Jews death. When OJ killed his wife the black jury found him innocent. The Jury system is made up of low lives and people not trained in the law. Anyone can make up a story about someone and claim they were molested.In New york any wife can go to the police and have her husband arrested on false charges. This is sodom. ”

“ not sure if what you say it is true

but reading some of the bazaar excuses people are making for this guy and every other frum yid that get arrested their concern is justified.

About 60% of the people on this board would not believe a yid did a crime even it it happened right before their eyes. ”

“ Stop with the whining, its no better than what the Arabs do.

No defense attorney in their right mind would allow as a juror someone who was a member of the same tight knit group as the victim in a case because they cannot be objective. They also don't want priests, nuns, ministers, rabbis, imams or any very religious people of any stripe. Religious people can sway the thinking of the rest of the jury and that is exactly what a defense attorney does not want. It isn't some anti-Semitic plot.

Both sides have a limited number of potential jurors they can kick out of the pool. Neither side will be able to disqualify every single black person (or every single Jew) from a jury and if they did it's likely the verdict would be overturned on appeal. ”

“ that is why one does not go to beais dein about these matters.

Do a search and found out how many beais dins protected mondrwits kolco and others and harassed the victim ”

“ We appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions the main solution to the problem i don't see anyone acknowledging
we must form a group in each heimishe community to deal with the issue in a normal way which includes getting people to go for help which will help the entire community, and keep family's from being destroyed,
the people are dealing with these issues now have no knowledge how its suppose to be dealt with they decided that if no one else is getting involved they will use any kind of action that requires a major wake up call , job well done, but now is the time we all act together the right way and form a group in every community to deal with the issue the rightful way. ”

“ I dont know if this did or did not happen but as the mother of an abused son i am very happy that someone will get punished for this. I hope and pray with all my might that this will put in some fear into these sick sick men. This has to STOP and now is the time. ”

“ It is an open question if this will put the fear of God into these sick men. I'm no psychologist, but I would bet that the impulse for this depravity outweighs any logical considerations. The person who needs this is like a drug addict who is obsessed with his next fix and nothing is going to stop him. So, one would say, lock them all up. But the problem is that a lot of people have this impulse and most don’t act on it. Some have stopped acting on this impulse and others haven’t yet started. So are we going to lock up everyone with a propensity for this? I think that the psychology part has not been addressed by anyone, only the revenge part. That you are a mother of an abused son I can understand your desire for punishment, but society needs to look at this in a broader light. ”

“ It is an open question if this will put the fear of God into these sick men. I'm no psychologist, but I would bet that the impulse for this depravity outweighs any logical considerations. The person who needs this is like a drug addict who is obsessed with his next fix and nothing is going to stop him. So, one would say, lock them all up. But the problem is that a lot of people have this impulse and most don’t act on it. Some have stopped acting on this impulse and others haven’t yet started. So are we going to lock up everyone with a propensity for this? I think that the psychology part has not been addressed by anyone, only the revenge part. That you are a mother of an abused son I can understand your desire for punishment, but society needs to look at this in a broader light. ”

“ I have read most of the comments and I would like to add something that I didn't see yet on here.
I don't live in NYC, but in a small jewish community out west. So I am not sure if what we did will work anyplace else.
When abuse occured in our community, instead of notifyying the authorities the Rabbonim and community leaders decided to devise strict resolutions and rules for the offender. We felt that the main goal here is not to punish anyone but to protect our children.
We realized our plan might not work because these offenders and child molesters are devious and not honest. But in keeping with the laws of a "Rodef" the Rabbonim felt first we should try other methods to stop him before notifying the police.
I am sure you all realize by now that turning a child molester over to law enforcement authorities is like "Killing him". And the law of "Rodef" clearly states to first try other methods.
I feel for the victims of child molestation, but the community leaders and Rabbonim, must keep the Torah and first try to stop the molester in ways that will not "kill him".
Doing this will safegaurd our children and also avoid any suffering to the offenders family, and to the offender himself. Yes you heard me right. It's not our job to play G-D and attempt to seek justice and punish someone. Those are all Goyish concepts . And it's a shame I keep reading on here how Torah Jews want to punish and "get even" or "seek justice" with the perpertrators.
Our main focus should be in protecting our children. If it can be done without the Goyish courts getting involved , that's the path you should choose.
Every Rav and community leader has the obligation to see if such an option is available. ”