“ Opinion: It is with great regret that Klal Yisrael is still so divided, that this SInas Chinam hid behind a cloak of Religion is sad and will deay the coming of moshiach. Do I agree with the applying the title of Rabba or Maharat? not really. BUT I do find a need in our community that there be knowledgeable women to whom women can I ask a shailah too. While many rabbanim understand the halacha they lack the interpersonal skills and make it uncomfortable to ask a Shailah. Which in turn could cause a woman to, Chas V'shalom, commit an avairah because they were too uncomfortable to ask her Rav.

SO instead of denouncing those who are trying to those who are trying to help the situation and declaring them not Orthodox, maybe they should look inward and try to discover why the Kehilla needed such a thing in the first place. IY'H this will lead to more Ahavas Yisroeal and the bringing of Moshiach, bimhairah v'yamaeinu! ”

“ Why can't these women learn and appreciate their role within yiddishkeit.

Would any one dare say that Rebbetzin Sheinberg did not have a tremendous influence on the Mattersdorf neighborhood in Yerushalaim?

Would anyone dare say that the Belzer Rebbetzin does not have a profound impact on Belzer chasidim (and all yidden) worldwide?

THere are countless of Rebbetzin giving shiurim on parsha, halacha, mussar, and other inyanim EVERY DAY. They are deeply affecting yiddishkeit and strengthening our Jewish homes by elevating our nashim.

ALL THIS IS WITHOUT TRYING TO BE MEN AND WITHOUT THESE RIDICULOUS TITLES. ”

“ Bottom line is frum women are accomplished in every other field, so why not Torah. I don't want to touch the subject of the title, but if a frum woman can be a doctor, the chairman of the board of a corporation, university professor, why should she waste her time studying that if she is interested in studying the ways of Hashem. In our neighborhood the female shoelet (or whatever the title is) has received thousands of questions that were never asked before. That is a fact, which can't be debated. Don't tell me frum women should be comfortable asking a man those questions, it doesn't happen. Used to be you called the rebbetzin, nowadays not every rebbetzin is as learned, so we have rebbetzins that are not married to rabbis. Same thing. ”

“ The Agudah is 100% correct. What's the difference between calling her Rabbah, Maharat or Rabbit. The point is she will be acting like a Rabbi. The RCA copped out. ”

“ "There is zero halachic problem with having a woman serve selected rabbinic duties.

It is just a matter of culture and tradition.

And those norms were set many hundreds of years ago when women (and most men) were illiterate.

Additionally, doesnt it make sense for a woman to pasken niddah question coming from women?????

Isnt it a terrible lack of tzniyus the way it is done now.

With all the sex accusations coming against rabbis, why should a single woman (or unhappily married one) be going to a rabbi for hadracha??

Maybe avi weiss is right ”

“ Did Lubavitch care when everyone else said that Moshiach is supposed to be alive? Did Agudah care when everyone was saying t'hillim for Eretz Yisroel during the Yom Kippur was and Agudah said that the g'dolim prohibited it? So why should Avi Weiss care? ”

“ Why can't these women learn and appreciate their role within yiddishkeit.

Would any one dare say that Rebbetzin Sheinberg did not have a tremendous influence on the Mattersdorf neighborhood in Yerushalaim?

Would anyone dare say that the Belzer Rebbetzin does not have a profound impact on Belzer chasidim (and all yidden) worldwide?

THere are countless of Rebbetzin giving shiurim on parsha, halacha, mussar, and other inyanim EVERY DAY. They are deeply affecting yiddishkeit and strengthening our Jewish homes by elevating our nashim.

ALL THIS IS WITHOUT TRYING TO BE MEN AND WITHOUT THESE RIDICULOUS TITLES. ”

“ The more Agudath Israel opposes him, he more the Modern Orthodox community supports Rabbi Weiss. ”

“ These people (Agudah) really need to find something better to do with their time than poke their nose at the Modern Orthodox community. Why not deal with the tax cheats and extortionists in their own community? Where is the same such condemnation of Milton Balkany or Leib Tropper who did far worse than let a woman in his shul answer a few halachic questions. This just further renders them irrelevant even to their own base. ”

“ Opinion: It is with great regret that Klal Yisrael is still so divided, that this SInas Chinam hid behind a cloak of Religion is sad and will deay the coming of moshiach. Do I agree with the applying the title of Rabba or Maharat? not really. BUT I do find a need in our community that there be knowledgeable women to whom women can I ask a shailah too. While many rabbanim understand the halacha they lack the interpersonal skills and make it uncomfortable to ask a Shailah. Which in turn could cause a woman to, Chas V'shalom, commit an avairah because they were too uncomfortable to ask her Rav.

SO instead of denouncing those who are trying to those who are trying to help the situation and declaring them not Orthodox, maybe they should look inward and try to discover why the Kehilla needed such a thing in the first place. IY'H this will lead to more Ahavas Yisroeal and the bringing of Moshiach, bimhairah v'yamaeinu! ”

“ These people (Agudah) really need to find something better to do with their time than poke their nose at the Modern Orthodox community. Why not deal with the tax cheats and extortionists in their own community? Where is the same such condemnation of Milton Balkany or Leib Tropper who did far worse than let a woman in his shul answer a few halachic questions. This just further renders them irrelevant even to their own base. ”

“ Bottom line is frum women are accomplished in every other field, so why not Torah. I don't want to touch the subject of the title, but if a frum woman can be a doctor, the chairman of the board of a corporation, university professor, why should she waste her time studying that if she is interested in studying the ways of Hashem. In our neighborhood the female shoelet (or whatever the title is) has received thousands of questions that were never asked before. That is a fact, which can't be debated. Don't tell me frum women should be comfortable asking a man those questions, it doesn't happen. Used to be you called the rebbetzin, nowadays not every rebbetzin is as learned, so we have rebbetzins that are not married to rabbis. Same thing. ”

“ The more Agudath Israel opposes him, he more the Modern Orthodox community supports Rabbi Weiss. ”

“ "This just renders them irrelevant to their own base". Is that why so many modern orthodox can't keep their children from "flipping out "to the right when they learn in yeshivos in Israel? Just exactly who is becoming irrelevant to who's own base? ”

“ Age-old story. Orthodoxy is always afraid of something new. It takes a generation and Rabbonim with guts to change. And change it does-----all the time. ”

“ used to be you called the rebitzen?
i dont think so in europe and all throughout history the dayan and rav were asked the shailos and it worked just fine
all these ladies that are looking to daven for the amud lain the megilla etc are like the feminists a movement for ugly unfulfilled women!! ”

“ You are asking too much from Agudath. The Godfather of Agudath Aaron Schechter has never condemned his good friend Tropper and continues to downplay the severity of the whole bizarre unfolding. Agudath will only chase Indian wigs, water in the bugs and other trivial things. Agudath never did and never will address real issues that are crumbling the Frum world i.e. the continuous scandals, dishonesty, criminal activity, financial fraud and thefts, and an impending epidemic of sexual abusers.
What's the best way to divert attention from real issues than by attacking role of women and this "Rabba" nonsense? Instead of attacking Modern Orthodox communities, Agudath should stop defending child abusers and supporting murderers on death row. ”

“ My turn: It is with great regret that there are still some within Klal Yisrael who do not understand that there is a second word in the phrase Sinas Chinam - and that is Chinam. No one is proposing that we hate Avi Weiss, of course, but there has to be a line drawn. We cannot compromise on our Mesorah, period. Otherwise, what makes us different from all of the other nations that have come and gone over the course of history? We don't condone Sinas Chinam, or putting people down, but sometimes our Gedolim have a reason for what they say and do - and if so, it's not Chinam.

All of the child molesters - not the alleged ones, but the real ones - are doing terrible, horrible things. We don't need the Agudah or Moetzes to tell us that, it's pretty straightforward. But when someone comes - "under the cloak of religion" - and tries to undermine what has ensured our survival for thousands of years, we need to take a stand. Mi l'Hashem Eilai? Our Gedolim. Instead of trying to be fairer than the Torah, let's listen to what they have to say, and call a spade a spade. Weiss can't have it both ways. He wants to be considered frum? Let him act like it. ”

“ used to be you called the rebitzen?
i dont think so in europe and all throughout history the dayan and rav were asked the shailos and it worked just fine
all these ladies that are looking to daven for the amud lain the megilla etc are like the feminists a movement for ugly unfulfilled women!! ”

“ Count your blessings. "Maharat" is better than the alternative title to "Rabba" that Rabbi Weiss initially proposed for female graduates from his seminary - "Abaya" ”

“ Sorry , you can't bring proof from Europe and history. It was a different world. But let's even bring Europe into this conversation. What do you was the reaction when Sarah Shnerir opened her Mais Yaakov. Don't you think people used your argument also? Times have changed then so a girls' schol was necessary. Well, guess what? Times are changing now also and maybe such a learned woman is necessary today. ”

“ What is wrong with Rabba? It is short for Rabbanit. ”

“ used to be you called the rebitzen?
i dont think so in europe and all throughout history the dayan and rav were asked the shailos and it worked just fine
all these ladies that are looking to daven for the amud lain the megilla etc are like the feminists a movement for ugly unfulfilled women!! ”

“ It's well known that education has always been important to us for boys and girls, men and women. When Sarah Shnerir opened her Bais Yaakov she was taking an old theme and making a new way of doing it.

On the other hand, women being "Rabbas" is a new invention altogether. The commentaries on Sefer Shoftim ask how Devorah could judge, and the various answers revolve around the idea that she was not functioning as a real Posek/Shofetes. Clearly Chazal do not entertain the idea of a Rabba (or whatever they would call it). ”

“ Why can't these women learn and appreciate their role within yiddishkeit.

Would any one dare say that Rebbetzin Sheinberg did not have a tremendous influence on the Mattersdorf neighborhood in Yerushalaim?

Would anyone dare say that the Belzer Rebbetzin does not have a profound impact on Belzer chasidim (and all yidden) worldwide?

THere are countless of Rebbetzin giving shiurim on parsha, halacha, mussar, and other inyanim EVERY DAY. They are deeply affecting yiddishkeit and strengthening our Jewish homes by elevating our nashim.

ALL THIS IS WITHOUT TRYING TO BE MEN AND WITHOUT THESE RIDICULOUS TITLES. ”

“ My turn: It is with great regret that there are still some within Klal Yisrael who do not understand that there is a second word in the phrase Sinas Chinam - and that is Chinam. No one is proposing that we hate Avi Weiss, of course, but there has to be a line drawn. We cannot compromise on our Mesorah, period. Otherwise, what makes us different from all of the other nations that have come and gone over the course of history? We don't condone Sinas Chinam, or putting people down, but sometimes our Gedolim have a reason for what they say and do - and if so, it's not Chinam.

All of the child molesters - not the alleged ones, but the real ones - are doing terrible, horrible things. We don't need the Agudah or Moetzes to tell us that, it's pretty straightforward. But when someone comes - "under the cloak of religion" - and tries to undermine what has ensured our survival for thousands of years, we need to take a stand. Mi l'Hashem Eilai? Our Gedolim. Instead of trying to be fairer than the Torah, let's listen to what they have to say, and call a spade a spade. Weiss can't have it both ways. He wants to be considered frum? Let him act like it. ”

“ Rebbi Meir's wife put on Tfillin. Rashi's daughters did the same and so did countless others. Women today daven more than the grandmothers of Europe. Look at how many women go to shul on Shabbos today as opposed to Europe of yesteryear.If women want to express their Ahavas Hashem in a way that doesn't suit the powers- to -be , well , it's just too bad. ”

“ Opinion: It is with great regret that Klal Yisrael is still so divided, that this SInas Chinam hid behind a cloak of Religion is sad and will deay the coming of moshiach. Do I agree with the applying the title of Rabba or Maharat? not really. BUT I do find a need in our community that there be knowledgeable women to whom women can I ask a shailah too. While many rabbanim understand the halacha they lack the interpersonal skills and make it uncomfortable to ask a Shailah. Which in turn could cause a woman to, Chas V'shalom, commit an avairah because they were too uncomfortable to ask her Rav.

SO instead of denouncing those who are trying to those who are trying to help the situation and declaring them not Orthodox, maybe they should look inward and try to discover why the Kehilla needed such a thing in the first place. IY'H this will lead to more Ahavas Yisroeal and the bringing of Moshiach, bimhairah v'yamaeinu! ”

“ Rebbi Meir's wife put on Tfillin. Rashi's daughters did the same and so did countless others. Women today daven more than the grandmothers of Europe. Look at how many women go to shul on Shabbos today as opposed to Europe of yesteryear.If women want to express their Ahavas Hashem in a way that doesn't suit the powers- to -be , well , it's just too bad. ”

“ Female and highly educated in Jewish Studies, I do not agree with Avi Weiss' new title for women. But I also think that the Agudah has become irrelevant, very few in the mainstream of Orthodoxy pay heed to their words, when they pronounce any.
I keep hearing the challenge, "Where does it does say that a woman cannot perform rabbinic duties?" I don't know the answer. Does anyone? Yes, it's a break with mesorah, but can't any learned man or group cite sources for this?
People want honesty...not just "it's not appropriate." This has become a matter of semantics, not what the woman does but what she is called? ”

“ Sorry, but that statement is not fact. Rabbanit is the Hebrew for Rebbetzin, the wife of a rabbi. Rabba is feminine for Rav. ”

“ We are discussing another event in a longer term and broader development of a new movement in Judaism. I think of it as Modern orthodox (with an emphasis on the Modern) where the touchstone is modern Western culture rather than our Mesorah. The Conservative movement also started out this way with the same label and slowly over time moved far away from traditional halachic Judaism to the point where it's not so far from Reform Judaism.

Besides, as the Agudah sages point out, change within Halacha requires one major element missing here: the endorsement of a revered Halanchic authority. The Bais Yaacov movement had that support. Even within so-called modern Orthodoxy, there is no one in a position of respect supporting the expansion of women's roles in this fashion.

As to silence on the issue of criminality in the Orthodox community, that's a vital issue but irrelevant to this discussion. ”

“ We are discussing another event in a longer term and broader development of a new movement in Judaism. I think of it as Modern orthodox (with an emphasis on the Modern) where the touchstone is modern Western culture rather than our Mesorah. The Conservative movement also started out this way with the same label and slowly over time moved far away from traditional halachic Judaism to the point where it's not so far from Reform Judaism.

Besides, as the Agudah sages point out, change within Halacha requires one major element missing here: the endorsement of a revered Halanchic authority. The Bais Yaacov movement had that support. Even within so-called modern Orthodoxy, there is no one in a position of respect supporting the expansion of women's roles in this fashion.

As to silence on the issue of criminality in the Orthodox community, that's a vital issue but irrelevant to this discussion. ”

“ WHile I agree to the need for learned women to be available to answer shailos of women who may be uncomforatble taking shailos to a male, that is not what the maharat/rabbah is. The maharat/rabbah is a woman in a public leadership role for both men and women, which is not k'vuda bas melech p'nima. That is the problem with it, not with women learning torah or with women being available to answer shailos. ”

“ To #7 & 14; The difference is that every one knows that Aroyas and Gezelah are averos, not mitzvos.
Here, we have a Rabbi saying that an averoh, having a female rabb,i is a mitzvoh, and as the Chasam Sofer said Chodosh Osur MeHatorah.
Every divergent movement in Judaism started the same way; by undermining tradition;
i.e Nozrim, haskalah, Reform etc. ”

“ $1,000 cash reward for the first person who can provide a mekor for the tale that Rashi's daughter ever wore tefillin. ”

“ Sorry , you can't bring proof from Europe and history. It was a different world. But let's even bring Europe into this conversation. What do you was the reaction when Sarah Shnerir opened her Mais Yaakov. Don't you think people used your argument also? Times have changed then so a girls' schol was necessary. Well, guess what? Times are changing now also and maybe such a learned woman is necessary today. ”

“ Let's all look in the torah what it says about our imahos,sara,rivka rachel and leah.sara imeinu was hidden. Why because a womans role is to be modest! Kol kevuda bas melech penima! Yosef stood in front of his mother to protect her from the wicked rasha,esav from looking at her! From what did hashem create chava. From ? From a body part that was hidden ,2 teach us woman are supposed to be modest! This woman is trying to go against our mesorah! ”

“ The Agudah sages are incorrect; many changes within halachah occurred without the endorsement of any revered halachic authority and sometimes even over the objections of halachic authorities. Here are some examples:

Hallel on Rosh Chodesh

Kiddush in the synagogue on Friday night

Simchat Torah

Ashkenazim not eating kitniyot on Pesach

Women saying kaddish

Co-ed schools (Rov Soloveitchik did endorse them, but that was more than a century after they started)

In any case, semichah for women was endorsed in writing by Rabbi Yoel Bin Nun, Rabbi Daniel Sperber, Rabbi Joshua Maroof, all of whom are respected rabbis. ”

“ Nice argument, except that the Mesorah seems a bit more flexible.

Lifetime-learning for the majority of men? Not part of our Mesorah until the 1960s.

Revocation of Conversions? Didn't show up in the Mesorah until the last decade, and is arguably Ossur.

For that matter, the standards for Conversion today are drastically different than those explicitly recorded in our history.

Tell me again how Agudath is taking a stand for an unchanging Mesorah by taking something that they can't point to an Halachic objection for and saying "pas nisht", while letting major changes sail right on by with their beaming approval. ”

“ am I the only one that thinks that the agudah statement was too mild. That they should really take a strong stand and write him (weiss) and them Rca repesented by by Kletenink..whose son went to YCT WEISSES 'yeshiva' ) out of orthodoxy. We miss rav elya.. Rav shach.. . Oy lonu.. ”

“ Opinion: It is with great regret that Klal Yisrael is still so divided, that this SInas Chinam hid behind a cloak of Religion is sad and will deay the coming of moshiach. Do I agree with the applying the title of Rabba or Maharat? not really. BUT I do find a need in our community that there be knowledgeable women to whom women can I ask a shailah too. While many rabbanim understand the halacha they lack the interpersonal skills and make it uncomfortable to ask a Shailah. Which in turn could cause a woman to, Chas V'shalom, commit an avairah because they were too uncomfortable to ask her Rav.

SO instead of denouncing those who are trying to those who are trying to help the situation and declaring them not Orthodox, maybe they should look inward and try to discover why the Kehilla needed such a thing in the first place. IY'H this will lead to more Ahavas Yisroeal and the bringing of Moshiach, bimhairah v'yamaeinu! ”

“ In the year since Rabbi Weiss gave yoreh yoreh semichah to Sara Hurwitz, he has been attacked mercilessly. Yet not a single one of those attacks has included a single halachic source that would indicate that there is anything problematic about Sara Hurwitz's role. We are arguing about semantics and sociology, not Torah. Interesting that we criticize the C and R movements about not using a halachic process. ”

“ Let's all look in the torah what it says about our imahos,sara,rivka rachel and leah.sara imeinu was hidden. Why because a womans role is to be modest! Kol kevuda bas melech penima! Yosef stood in front of his mother to protect her from the wicked rasha,esav from looking at her! From what did hashem create chava. From ? From a body part that was hidden ,2 teach us woman are supposed to be modest! This woman is trying to go against our mesorah! ”

“ Co ed schools are considered assur by just about evrey rav,including r' moshe zt"l past 8th grade. ”

“ Why can't these women learn and appreciate their role within yiddishkeit.

Would any one dare say that Rebbetzin Sheinberg did not have a tremendous influence on the Mattersdorf neighborhood in Yerushalaim?

Would anyone dare say that the Belzer Rebbetzin does not have a profound impact on Belzer chasidim (and all yidden) worldwide?

THere are countless of Rebbetzin giving shiurim on parsha, halacha, mussar, and other inyanim EVERY DAY. They are deeply affecting yiddishkeit and strengthening our Jewish homes by elevating our nashim.

ALL THIS IS WITHOUT TRYING TO BE MEN AND WITHOUT THESE RIDICULOUS TITLES. ”

“ the agudah is a cop out as well. Let them get up and say bpeh malei that avi weiss is not orthdox and is a fraud. That the RCA Which hasn't bounced him is also a fraud and it's members of respectable orthodox rabbis should resign. Don't talk in polite non sequiters. Take a real stand. Incidentally kletenik(rcas haed) wife is certainly pro rabba his son went to yct and hidaughter is a staunch proponent of female raabis and coed ooportunity rabbinic schools she is even published as ssuch marc angels autumn 09 modern orthodx rag 'conversations' ”

“ For those who say coed schools are assur...please show me a source from halachah. Is it preferable to be seperate yes but is better to have no school than a coed one? is it better for a school to close and kids to go away or just go to public school. is a mixed class worse than exposing a child to public school.

Please don't even get me started on yeshivah tuitions. My point is this singlemindness that there is only one right way is why so many of our children are going astray. ”

“ The Conservative movement did not start out as a breakaway from Orthodoxy, changing the emphasis to modern western values.


It started as a reaction to the Reform movement, by those who felt Reform was going too far away from traditional yiddishkeit. They sought to save more of the mesorah, to take a more CONSERVATIVE approach, to make less allowance for modernity.

But hey, why let facts influence your understanding of history. ”

“ mmm.. and why did chazal not think of this basic concern? Why were'nt they affraid of a women being "oiveir" an avairah because of not being able to ask a shailah? ”

“ And why is" Rebbetzin" not a ridiculous title? Can you point to any woman in Tanach, Mishnah, Gemorrah or any other source where the word "Rebbetzin" is written? ”

“ So Kletenik won't be the !st orthodox rabbi who's family went off the torah way's ”

“ For those who say coed schools are assur...please show me a source from halachah. Is it preferable to be seperate yes but is better to have no school than a coed one? is it better for a school to close and kids to go away or just go to public school. is a mixed class worse than exposing a child to public school.

Please don't even get me started on yeshivah tuitions. My point is this singlemindness that there is only one right way is why so many of our children are going astray. ”

“ Female and highly educated in Jewish Studies, I do not agree with Avi Weiss' new title for women. But I also think that the Agudah has become irrelevant, very few in the mainstream of Orthodoxy pay heed to their words, when they pronounce any.
I keep hearing the challenge, "Where does it does say that a woman cannot perform rabbinic duties?" I don't know the answer. Does anyone? Yes, it's a break with mesorah, but can't any learned man or group cite sources for this?
People want honesty...not just "it's not appropriate." This has become a matter of semantics, not what the woman does but what she is called? ”

“ In the year since Rabbi Weiss gave yoreh yoreh semichah to Sara Hurwitz, he has been attacked mercilessly. Yet not a single one of those attacks has included a single halachic source that would indicate that there is anything problematic about Sara Hurwitz's role. We are arguing about semantics and sociology, not Torah. Interesting that we criticize the C and R movements about not using a halachic process. ”

“ Does this mean she can paskin shailas for men as well? Or just for women? ”

“ bottom line is why not learn the source of this ??!! its not some misogynistic Rabbonim hanging on to their preserve, it is mainstream halacha , if you had bothered to inquire. also, the fact that a shoelet has received millions of shaylas doesnt make it right!! since when do the ends justify the means in Yiddishkeit??!! ”

“ It's well known that education has always been important to us for boys and girls, men and women. When Sarah Shnerir opened her Bais Yaakov she was taking an old theme and making a new way of doing it.

On the other hand, women being "Rabbas" is a new invention altogether. The commentaries on Sefer Shoftim ask how Devorah could judge, and the various answers revolve around the idea that she was not functioning as a real Posek/Shofetes. Clearly Chazal do not entertain the idea of a Rabba (or whatever they would call it). ”

“ Very well put, you said it just the way it is. I'd sooner ask Rebetzin Kanievsky advice than go to a maharat. I would only ask shailos to a rov, but I' d go to a rebeitzin for advice, or to hear a shiur on hashkofo. ”

“ Female and highly educated in Jewish Studies, I do not agree with Avi Weiss' new title for women. But I also think that the Agudah has become irrelevant, very few in the mainstream of Orthodoxy pay heed to their words, when they pronounce any.
I keep hearing the challenge, "Where does it does say that a woman cannot perform rabbinic duties?" I don't know the answer. Does anyone? Yes, it's a break with mesorah, but can't any learned man or group cite sources for this?
People want honesty...not just "it's not appropriate." This has become a matter of semantics, not what the woman does but what she is called? ”

“ Did you forget about the halacha that women should not be thought torah sbal peh??? Plain and simple. ”

“ You may want to look up the Rambam halachois Melachim ch.1, halacha 5. and the shulchan aruch Yoreh Deah ch. 1, sif 1 in the Rama. and see the Shulchan Aruch Horav over there in great detail. I am sure there is more. but you can start with these.
I would suggest that a woman can prepare the halachic issues and give them to an accepted Rav to call the final shots. As many Rabbonim in the past have had their talmidim work on the case and the Rav gave the final decision. I would imagine many lawyers do that as well. ”

“ Female and highly educated in Jewish Studies, I do not agree with Avi Weiss' new title for women. But I also think that the Agudah has become irrelevant, very few in the mainstream of Orthodoxy pay heed to their words, when they pronounce any.
I keep hearing the challenge, "Where does it does say that a woman cannot perform rabbinic duties?" I don't know the answer. Does anyone? Yes, it's a break with mesorah, but can't any learned man or group cite sources for this?
People want honesty...not just "it's not appropriate." This has become a matter of semantics, not what the woman does but what she is called? ”

“ Female and highly educated in Jewish Studies, I do not agree with Avi Weiss' new title for women. But I also think that the Agudah has become irrelevant, very few in the mainstream of Orthodoxy pay heed to their words, when they pronounce any.
I keep hearing the challenge, "Where does it does say that a woman cannot perform rabbinic duties?" I don't know the answer. Does anyone? Yes, it's a break with mesorah, but can't any learned man or group cite sources for this?
People want honesty...not just "it's not appropriate." This has become a matter of semantics, not what the woman does but what she is called? ”

“ No, a woman's role is to perform mitzvot. Women are obligated in most of the mitzvot of men, including all of the material covered in the yoreh yoreh semichah. A modest woman who in her ignorance violates shabat and serves non-kosher food is not a model for us. ”

“ Where is this halacha to be found? Where do you find a distinction in this regard between Torah shebichsav and sheb'al peh? ”

“ All of the sources you quoted are irrelevant. Hil' melochim is talking about a position of authority, not leadership. Ms Hurwitz is an assistant rabbi, so there's no problem. Nor is there a problem in her doing the same jobs that the vast majority of male rabbis do; relatively few of them are in positions of authority.

As for hilchos shechita, it's completely irrelevant. There may be a minhag in some countries not to have women shecht because they're not strong enough or whatever, but it's not halacha and never was, and if some woman wants to shecht nobody has the right to stop her or to call her shechitah treif. And the fact is that whether the Ramo knew about it or not, women did shecht in many countries. ”

“ What's mainstream halacha? On the contrary, mainstream halacha is solidly on R Weiss's side. Remember, the Chinuch speaks of אשה חכמה הראויה להורות. ”

“ What about D'VORIM17:15 regarding the prohibition for any non -male born of jewish parents of any role of authority.In reference to sermons and the like, R'Soloveitchick forbade men and women to sit together even for board meetings in the main sanctuary, due to the cammandment 'U'MIKDASHAI TIRA'U' . ”

“ Did you forget about the halacha that women should not be thought torah sbal peh??? Plain and simple. ”

“ Co ed schools are considered assur by just about evrey rav,including r' moshe zt"l past 8th grade. ”

“ That halachah is no longer in effect; almost every commuity in the world teaches women torah she bal peh. ”

“ Why can't these women learn and appreciate their role within yiddishkeit.

Would any one dare say that Rebbetzin Sheinberg did not have a tremendous influence on the Mattersdorf neighborhood in Yerushalaim?

Would anyone dare say that the Belzer Rebbetzin does not have a profound impact on Belzer chasidim (and all yidden) worldwide?

THere are countless of Rebbetzin giving shiurim on parsha, halacha, mussar, and other inyanim EVERY DAY. They are deeply affecting yiddishkeit and strengthening our Jewish homes by elevating our nashim.

ALL THIS IS WITHOUT TRYING TO BE MEN AND WITHOUT THESE RIDICULOUS TITLES. ”

“ Rov Soloveitchik approved them and we are entitled to follow him. ”

“ Wrong!most jewish girl schools follow the old age tradition,and don't teach girls gemara. ”

“ Does this mean she can paskin shailas for men as well? Or just for women? ”

“ The distinction is made by the Reform movement! ”

“ And why is" Rebbetzin" not a ridiculous title? Can you point to any woman in Tanach, Mishnah, Gemorrah or any other source where the word "Rebbetzin" is written? ”

“ The Conservative movement did not start out as a breakaway from Orthodoxy, changing the emphasis to modern western values.


It started as a reaction to the Reform movement, by those who felt Reform was going too far away from traditional yiddishkeit. They sought to save more of the mesorah, to take a more CONSERVATIVE approach, to make less allowance for modernity.

But hey, why let facts influence your understanding of history. ”

“ Um, do girls learn Rashi? The Gemara doesn't say don't teach them Gemara (which would be absurd)-it says torah sheba'al peh-that includes gemaras and midrashim,-everything in Rashi is from a torah sheba'al peh source! ”

“ Rov Soloveitchik approved them and we are entitled to follow him. ”

“ Yes,you have your opinion, but don't have the chutzpah to list it with well established minhagim in klal yisroel like kitnios or hallel on rosh chodesh. ”

“ Than it also must have been chutzpah to allow girls to go to school in the first place. ”

“ Let's remember that the way many shuls in america became reform started from a "small" thing,like cutting out piyutim. ”

“ Xxxxxtianity DID start as a Jewish-Frum sect, but slowly started drifting farther and farther away.... ”

“ Wrong. Most Reform temples started out as Reform temples.

Your version sounds good though. ”

“ Let's remember that the way many shuls in america became reform started from a "small" thing,like cutting out piyutim. ”

“ Mr. did you study american jewish history?one reform temple after the other were orignally orthodox shuls.I'm talking about the founding ones in the early years. ”

“ What are you talking about? it was a project with wide support from the gerrer rebbe to belzer rebbe to the chofetz chaim,and became accepted all over.Co ed schools are not. ”

“ Sorry, but Anon #128 is correct. Many Orthodox shuls turned Conservative but very few unded up as Reform temples. The jump from Orthodoxy to Reform was too much for most people to handle. ”

“ When you say they go to the right , it doesn't mean they go Chassidish or Yeshivish.It means they aren't interested in golf or television. Their "right' means living in Eretz Yisroel especially in the shtachim. That's what it means. ”

“ For openers Hallel is not a minhag.
It's one of the Sheva Mitzvos deRabbanan.
Girls were not educated in Torah at school for several thousand years.
Allowing/encouraging them to attend school represented a major change regardless of who endorsed it. That was the original point.
The radical break with tradition was felt neccessary because the alternative - loss of secularly educated women to other "isms" was unacceptable.
Those who choose coed schools find the alternatives ie single sex schools less or un-acceptable.
Outside the MO community, 75 years later, there is still no consensus as to what women are allowed to be taught. So what is the wide support about?
The European frum post-enlightenment woman who was educated by the State in literature, history and language and potentially enticed to leave the heimish community no longer exists in the Yeshivish and Chassidish communities. Perhaps it's time to dismantle the Bais Yaakovs and Bais Rivkahs etc. and return girls to education via the authentic mesorah.
You're probably also unable to come to terms with the concept of a Yeshiva and a University under one roof.
That will have to remain a "chutzpah" for you as well. ”

“ For openers Hallel is not a minhag.
It's one of the Sheva Mitzvos deRabbanan.
Girls were not educated in Torah at school for several thousand years.
Allowing/encouraging them to attend school represented a major change regardless of who endorsed it. That was the original point.
The radical break with tradition was felt neccessary because the alternative - loss of secularly educated women to other "isms" was unacceptable.
Those who choose coed schools find the alternatives ie single sex schools less or un-acceptable.
Outside the MO community, 75 years later, there is still no consensus as to what women are allowed to be taught. So what is the wide support about?
The European frum post-enlightenment woman who was educated by the State in literature, history and language and potentially enticed to leave the heimish community no longer exists in the Yeshivish and Chassidish communities. Perhaps it's time to dismantle the Bais Yaakovs and Bais Rivkahs etc. and return girls to education via the authentic mesorah.
You're probably also unable to come to terms with the concept of a Yeshiva and a University under one roof.
That will have to remain a "chutzpah" for you as well. ”

“ For starters ,the discussion was hallel on rosh chodesh,whis is a diffrent halachic discussion from hallel on yom tov.As for your comments about no danger these days etc...,really?which world are you living in?The dangers are all over the place. ”

“ Frum girls received mandatory state run education in subjects and philosophies that made the various 'alien" isms of the day very alluring. There was no way abysmal Torah knowledge and the inability to even read elementary Lashon Kodesh - not Yiddish - could compete against this academic onslaught. Hence the real fear that large numbers would leave the frum world.

The typical female student in yeshivish and Chassidish communities is intentionally unexposed to this academic world. Consequently, there is little if any threat that girls will leave these communities on hashkafic grounds as did girls a century ago.

OTOH, the "dangers all over the place" today that you must be referring to are quite different, hardly ideological but rather due to technology, fashion, entertainment and other social ills. Academic knowledge as a threat is largely irrelevant. That's the world we're living in. ”

“ Just a little more clarification. Chazal teach that causing a Jew embarassment is a violation of the biblical commandment (Lev 19:17): "Do not hate your brother in your heart; rebuke your neighbor, but don't burden him with sin." And we all know the teaching, that one who embarrasses his neighbor in public, has no share in the world to come.

For a man who who recites the blessing "shlo asani isha" (because he is commanded to learn torah, and women are not), to be instructed on torah from a woman is trully a disgrace and a shame for that man. Learning torah is not merely aquiring information, it is a divine service. One can gain knowledge of math in the bathroom, but that would not be the appropriate way for learning torah.

So it should be clear, that a woman who instructs men in torah, is in violation of the biblical commandment forbidding shaming one's neighbor.

It is commendable however for women to be learned, and to teach other women. And it is even appropriate for qualified women to guide married couples on shalom bayis and in educating their children. But teaching torah to men, or even issuing halachic rulings to men on a regular basis is inappropriate, as it causes shame ”

“ Xxxxxtianity DID start as a Jewish-Frum sect, but slowly started drifting farther and farther away.... ”

“ Sorry, but Anon #128 is correct. Many Orthodox shuls turned Conservative but very few unded up as Reform temples. The jump from Orthodoxy to Reform was too much for most people to handle. ”

“ Devorim 17:15 actually proves that women can get semichah because we give semichah to male converts and nobody objects! ”

“ That halachah is no longer in effect; almost every commuity in the world teaches women torah she bal peh. ”

“ I see the argument that women cannot teach or pasken what they are not mechuyav or it is a bizayon to the one who is mechuyav. So how can a Yisroel teach cohanim about pidyon haben, let alone the tanaim before the churban who taught and paskened about all aspects of the avodah in the beis hamikdash? If birth status is so important explain the gemarrah about the status of a mamzer talmid chacham next to a cohen godal who is less rauy.

I find it amazing that Agudah proudly says it will wage war on another orthodox group which has its own poskim regardless of the halachah. I think Agudah should focus on halachah on things involving kefirah or the need to answer a hazmanah, or the halachic questions related to molesting of massei sodom and lo taamod al dam reayachah.

Call me cynical, but I suspect Agudah does not care about the fact that this call will have as little real world impact as their campaign for Martin Grossman. But it sure was great at convincing everyone that the Agudah is the central address for frum Jews. ”