“ Tha ad also appeared in Der Blatt. I just checked, the ad will be re-running again this week. The fund still exists! Its internal politics, Shlomo Meyer is loosing ground, the younger board wants the fund in memory of Grossman. I guess its a wait and see approuch. as to who wins. ”

“ After this story and others I have heard about I stopped sending money to Kollel Shomrei Hachomos. I new send to Kollel Polin. ”

“ After this story and others I have heard about I stopped sending money to Kollel Shomrei Hachomos. I new send to Kollel Polin. ”

“ So Martin's neshama won't get any badly-needed zechusim.

I agree that the way they phrased the ad turning him into a saint was distasteful, but the idea was to provide him some merits in the next world, not to glorify his memory, and it should have been expressed accordingly.

Pity they didn't coordinate this with a P.R. firm before they publicized it... ”

“ So Martin's neshama won't get any badly-needed zechusim.

I agree that the way they phrased the ad turning him into a saint was distasteful, but the idea was to provide him some merits in the next world, not to glorify his memory, and it should have been expressed accordingly.

Pity they didn't coordinate this with a P.R. firm before they publicized it... ”

“ So Martin's neshama won't get any badly-needed zechusim.

I agree that the way they phrased the ad turning him into a saint was distasteful, but the idea was to provide him some merits in the next world, not to glorify his memory, and it should have been expressed accordingly.

Pity they didn't coordinate this with a P.R. firm before they publicized it... ”

“ Grossman is burining in Gehinom right now. Drunk or not, youthful indescretion or not, he was a Rotzeiach. He needs to burn for the 11 or 12 months before his Neshama can have an ALiyah. Meanwhile, spend your money on good Tzedakah causes and his Gilgul will just have to retry. ”

“ Maybe set up a fund in honor of his victim. ”

“ Grossman is burining in Gehinom right now. Drunk or not, youthful indescretion or not, he was a Rotzeiach. He needs to burn for the 11 or 12 months before his Neshama can have an ALiyah. Meanwhile, spend your money on good Tzedakah causes and his Gilgul will just have to retry. ”

“ So go do a mitzvah in his honor. Don't publicize it, Hashem will know. We don't need some kollel to do something in bad taste.

I plan on giving money in order of the Officer Park, killed in cold blood. ”

“ Grossman is burining in Gehinom right now. Drunk or not, youthful indescretion or not, he was a Rotzeiach. He needs to burn for the 11 or 12 months before his Neshama can have an ALiyah. Meanwhile, spend your money on good Tzedakah causes and his Gilgul will just have to retry. ”

“ Wow do you have inside information?just came from there? ”

“ All the yiddish newspapers from 2 weeks ago had the Kolels advertisement stating that they have set up a special tzedokah in memory of Grossman. Apparently, they had an enormous amount of criticism and flak that such a holy organization would stoop so low as to set up a fund for an admitted murderer. The organizers for all the protests for Grossman now realize that the entire situation got totally out of hand and that they were terribly misled by some Rabbis in Florida.

The protests, the letter writing, the learning of Mishnayos totally out of hand.
Two 4 year old children were killed in vehicle accidents in the past three weeks, One in Brooklyn and one by South Fallsburg Yeshiva. Did any of these Mishnayos learners and Tehillim sayers for Grossman, think twice about crying and saying tehillim and learn for these two poor Neshomos ( and for their heartbroken parents).

It is mind boggling how carried away people got that by the levaya they said Zichronoi "Tzadik V'kodosh" Librocho. What? The same title as L'havdil R'Shmuel Birbaum and R' Aron Kotler and the Satmar Rebbe ZT"L.

Credit however should be given to the Kolel for retracting on their error in judgement. ”

“ That's the problem! A true Tzeddaka doesn't need a PR firm and doesn't do shtick. That's also why I don't give to Kupat Hair. Their annual ad campaign costs more than my 3 family house in Boro Park!!! ”

“ That's the problem! A true Tzeddaka doesn't need a PR firm and doesn't do shtick. That's also why I don't give to Kupat Hair. Their annual ad campaign costs more than my 3 family house in Boro Park!!! ”

“ Wow do you have inside information?just came from there? ”

“ Grossman is burining in Gehinom right now. Drunk or not, youthful indescretion or not, he was a Rotzeiach. He needs to burn for the 11 or 12 months before his Neshama can have an ALiyah. Meanwhile, spend your money on good Tzedakah causes and his Gilgul will just have to retry. ”

“ they decided to drop the silly idea of sponsering a murderer. but now that the japanese released one of the boys now they will grab that idea and sponsor a tzedaka fund lichvod the release of this bachur who was smuggling goods with full knowledge ”

“ The truth of the matter is that they must have gotten a lot of flak for it and decided to do damage control. It most probably wasn’t done originally with the permission of the entire KSH leadership as they don’t sit for things like these; and it was evidently not well planned out.

I had originally pointed out that they shouldn’t have given him the honoraria “Reb” as it was entirely unnecessary; and in the Hebrew it Takeh wasn’t there. They should have also never put up a Gemach in his name, only a Keren Kayemes (perpetual fund) to pay for the learning of Mishnayess and saying Kaddish for him perpetually.

They also should have explained it that this doesn't mean that they consider him a Tzadik but feel that they want to do something for his poor Neshomah, because after all he did Teshuvah and had the Zchus of bringing us together with our Ahavas Yisroel.

For those who ask why we don’t put up a fund for those Kinderlach who were Nebech killed in accidents; the answer is obvious; these Kinderlech, Tinoikes Shel Beis Rabbon Shloi To’omi Taam Chet, they go straight to Gan Eden; and for Daniel Pearl and all those who died Al Kidush Hashem, G-d Almighty Kaveyochel says Kadish for them ”

“ How do you know? Are you G-d to decide if to accept his Teshuvah?

G-d accepted Menasha Melech Yisroel's Teshuvah, accepted much worse people's Teshuvah then Grossmans, so how do you know exactly what it would take to cleanse his Neshomah? ”

“ The truth of the matter is that they must have gotten a lot of flak for it and decided to do damage control. It most probably wasn’t done originally with the permission of the entire KSH leadership as they don’t sit for things like these; and it was evidently not well planned out.

I had originally pointed out that they shouldn’t have given him the honoraria “Reb” as it was entirely unnecessary; and in the Hebrew it Takeh wasn’t there. They should have also never put up a Gemach in his name, only a Keren Kayemes (perpetual fund) to pay for the learning of Mishnayess and saying Kaddish for him perpetually.

They also should have explained it that this doesn't mean that they consider him a Tzadik but feel that they want to do something for his poor Neshomah, because after all he did Teshuvah and had the Zchus of bringing us together with our Ahavas Yisroel.

For those who ask why we don’t put up a fund for those Kinderlach who were Nebech killed in accidents; the answer is obvious; these Kinderlech, Tinoikes Shel Beis Rabbon Shloi To’omi Taam Chet, they go straight to Gan Eden; and for Daniel Pearl and all those who died Al Kidush Hashem, G-d Almighty Kaveyochel says Kadish for them ”

“ I will bet that you won't give a penny. ”

“ Peggy Parks was the one who died Al Kidush Hashem protecting Jews and Gentiles from crazy criminals. ”

“ Its such a pleasure to hear from a true tzaddik. By the way, is asking for a chicken sandwich from the canteen 15 minutes (yes that was confirmed by the Florida penitentiary and officials in Florida) before death called tshuva? It didn't have the Satmar hechsher and not the OU hechsher or even a K. He was what he was. The Lubavitcher Rabbi in Florida tried to pull the wool over everyones eyes and he succeeded big time. Which proves "you can fool all of the people all of the time". People are gullible for a heartwarming story.

Why do peple find it necessary to have rachmonis on him. ”

“ Its such a pleasure to hear from a true tzaddik. By the way, is asking for a chicken sandwich from the canteen 15 minutes (yes that was confirmed by the Florida penitentiary and officials in Florida) before death called tshuva? It didn't have the Satmar hechsher and not the OU hechsher or even a K. He was what he was. The Lubavitcher Rabbi in Florida tried to pull the wool over everyones eyes and he succeeded big time. Which proves "you can fool all of the people all of the time". People are gullible for a heartwarming story.

Why do peple find it necessary to have rachmonis on him. ”

“ they decided to drop the silly idea of sponsering a murderer. but now that the japanese released one of the boys now they will grab that idea and sponsor a tzedaka fund lichvod the release of this bachur who was smuggling goods with full knowledge ”

“ Its such a pleasure to hear from a true tzaddik. By the way, is asking for a chicken sandwich from the canteen 15 minutes (yes that was confirmed by the Florida penitentiary and officials in Florida) before death called tshuva? It didn't have the Satmar hechsher and not the OU hechsher or even a K. He was what he was. The Lubavitcher Rabbi in Florida tried to pull the wool over everyones eyes and he succeeded big time. Which proves "you can fool all of the people all of the time". People are gullible for a heartwarming story.

Why do peple find it necessary to have rachmonis on him. ”

“ You are a small-minded bigot and an embarrassment to the orthodox community and reputation.

Why do you care if he ate a chicken sandwich, and what would that have to do with his doing tshuva for killing someone?

You are one of those people (unfortunately WAY too many writing on VIN) who has to find the bad in everything and looks for things to criticize.

Maybe he was a roshah, maybe he did sincere tshuvah, but show me your credentials from Gd to announce that YOUR opinion of a complete stranger's sincerity or Din V'Cheshbon.should be given ANY value.

And you also insult a Lubavitcher Rabbi you don't know either.

"peple" should have rachmonos on him because he did something when he was young he said he was sorry for. No one cares whether YOU think he sincerely regretted it, and his eating a chicken sandwich is a stupid way to judge that.

But YOU keep thinking he died trying to fool you, and the Rabbi wants to fool you, and everyone gives even the tiniest bit of thought or consideration to your opinions.

You are a big tzaddik, indeed. Perhaps YOU should consider a little tshuvah. You certainly are a rachmones! ”

“ That's the problem! A true Tzeddaka doesn't need a PR firm and doesn't do shtick. That's also why I don't give to Kupat Hair. Their annual ad campaign costs more than my 3 family house in Boro Park!!! ”

“ You are a small-minded bigot and an embarrassment to the orthodox community and reputation.

Why do you care if he ate a chicken sandwich, and what would that have to do with his doing tshuva for killing someone?

You are one of those people (unfortunately WAY too many writing on VIN) who has to find the bad in everything and looks for things to criticize.

Maybe he was a roshah, maybe he did sincere tshuvah, but show me your credentials from Gd to announce that YOUR opinion of a complete stranger's sincerity or Din V'Cheshbon.should be given ANY value.

And you also insult a Lubavitcher Rabbi you don't know either.

"peple" should have rachmonos on him because he did something when he was young he said he was sorry for. No one cares whether YOU think he sincerely regretted it, and his eating a chicken sandwich is a stupid way to judge that.

But YOU keep thinking he died trying to fool you, and the Rabbi wants to fool you, and everyone gives even the tiniest bit of thought or consideration to your opinions.

You are a big tzaddik, indeed. Perhaps YOU should consider a little tshuvah. You certainly are a rachmones! ”

“ can anyone please explain the need to send money to Israel, don't these people have jobs,
could it be that originally, 200 years ago, it was important to support small number of Talmidei Chachomim learning, and now generations have been paralyzed and corrupted by not being self-supported, most are not learning
Please correct me if I'm wrong ”

“ Right now I’ll address one thing, because it looks as if some well meaning individuals, have their views hinge on that famous chicken sandwich. The Earl of Sandwich would have envied the publicity this chicken sandwich got. Some have already suggested many responses for this, and I’ll try to put them together.

1) In Florida, Jewish prisoners don’t get kosher food, and for someone on death row, outside food isn’t allowed in. Even putting on Tefillin, he was only allowed 15 times in fifteen years.

2) We don’t have to believe that he ordered this sandwich; and it doesn’t have to be true.

3) Even if he did order the sandwich, who says that he ate it? Would someone about to be executed have any appetite to eat?

4) He had an IQ of 77 and Al Pi Halacha he probably would be categorized as a “Shoitah”, and we don’t really know what his Kleina Kup knew about Kashrus.

5) As someone before pointed out, eating Treif doesn’t cancel out his regret and Teshuvah for killing someone.

If anyone can, please expound on this further. ”

“ How can a shoitah do Teshuvah? He has no clue what he did or what Teshuvah is?
So now he didn't do Teshuvah. But how does a shoiteh know how to handle cars, guns, understand about going back to prison...? ”

“ Right now I’ll address one thing, because it looks as if some well meaning individuals, have their views hinge on that famous chicken sandwich. The Earl of Sandwich would have envied the publicity this chicken sandwich got. Some have already suggested many responses for this, and I’ll try to put them together.

1) In Florida, Jewish prisoners don’t get kosher food, and for someone on death row, outside food isn’t allowed in. Even putting on Tefillin, he was only allowed 15 times in fifteen years.

2) We don’t have to believe that he ordered this sandwich; and it doesn’t have to be true.

3) Even if he did order the sandwich, who says that he ate it? Would someone about to be executed have any appetite to eat?

4) He had an IQ of 77 and Al Pi Halacha he probably would be categorized as a “Shoitah”, and we don’t really know what his Kleina Kup knew about Kashrus.

5) As someone before pointed out, eating Treif doesn’t cancel out his regret and Teshuvah for killing someone.

If anyone can, please expound on this further. ”

“ The shame is that we are back to argue what constitutes regard and redemption, it is patently obvious, that some don’t have any moral demarcation, and the wherewithal to delineate between real regret or just saying what would sound right. I will argue that when a person is facing definite death within the next five minute, that he or she would really regard their transgressions, and that is what we people of faith belief in, that redemption transcends all sins. I would not get into the merit of the chicken sandwich argument, regardless I don’t know if he ate it, was it kosher or not, I don’t know, regardless if he even ate the chicken sandwich, that was before the regard and saying Sh’ma Yisroel, the bottom line is that Grossman had enough wherewithal, to use his last seconds on this world to ask from the family, and pray for forgiveness. I could only hope that I would have the same zuchs. ”

“ Let me try again. There is now before us a credibility issue aboutr Kolel Shomre Hachomos. Serious stuff. I have been donating 1500 annually to this place and now am not sure whether to continue with this level of donation. Can this organization be trusted with money? ”

“ That's the problem! A true Tzeddaka doesn't need a PR firm and doesn't do shtick. That's also why I don't give to Kupat Hair. Their annual ad campaign costs more than my 3 family house in Boro Park!!! ”

“ Its such a pleasure to hear from a true tzaddik. By the way, is asking for a chicken sandwich from the canteen 15 minutes (yes that was confirmed by the Florida penitentiary and officials in Florida) before death called tshuva? It didn't have the Satmar hechsher and not the OU hechsher or even a K. He was what he was. The Lubavitcher Rabbi in Florida tried to pull the wool over everyones eyes and he succeeded big time. Which proves "you can fool all of the people all of the time". People are gullible for a heartwarming story.

Why do peple find it necessary to have rachmonis on him. ”

“ What does "erroneously placed" mean? Were they hoping that nobody woudl catch it. I am confused. WHat did KSH have in mind when they placed that ad in the paper. And if they did not place that ad in the paper, then who did. THe fact that KSH is not suing whoever placed that ad is proof that KSH placed that ad in the paper. If so, KSH has a lot of answering to do to the frum community ”

“ Very well put. His last deeds of saying Vidui, praying for forgivness and then saying Shema Yisroel, places him in the category of a Baal Teshuva, which no sandwich eaten or not can cancel out. ”

“ If "credibility" is the issue, then what difference would it make if they were originally correct or are now correct on this particular case? The question you need answered is if your money is going to what it was intended, and is it supporting poor people in Eretz Yisroel; and the answer is "yes" today just as it was a year ago.

1) Read all the comments in support of Kaddish and Mishnaiyes for Grossman.

2) Why would you punish the Yidden in Eretz Yisroel because you resent something they did?

3) What does this have anything to do with if this organization can be trusted with money? It' would be like me telling you that I don't trust you with money because you voted for someone I didn't want. ”

“ The critical question is the credibility of Shomre Hachomos. Is this organization, to which I contribute $1500 annually, a trustworthy group? Can they still be counted upon to be honest with other people's money? It is of serious concern to me for I am ready to immediately cease donating to them. I do not want to be told that the Satmar rebbe held them to be great. The Satmar Rebbe and those running the organziations back then were more ehrlich than what we have today. So I dont want to hear as a defense ploy that the Satmar Rebbe and Hungarian/Chassidishe rebbes supported this group. It is totally worthless and spitworthy.

Bottom Line: Can Kolel Shomre Hachomos come out of this scandal stain-free? ”

“ I am not going to debate again the merits of the death penalty but you just made up a story that Grossman consumed the chicken sandwich 15 minutes prior to his lethal injection, which would put the meal at 5:45, and the way you make it sound that you’re 100% right but the fact that you are nothing more than a liar who was caught red-handed here is the quote from the FL State penitentiary web page
“Death Row inmates are served meals three times a day: at 5:00 am, from 10:30 am to 11:00 am and from 4:00 pm to 4:30 pm. Food is prepared by prison staff and transported in insulated carts to the cells. Inmates are allowed plates and spoons to eat their meals. Prior to execution, an inmate may request a last meal. To avoid extravagance, the food to prepare the last meal must cost no more than $40 and must be purchased locally.”
Additionally, the news report was that *he* had purchased the chicken from a local cantina, you don’t have any idea which he brought the food from. It is all conjecture. ”

“ WHO CARES! He was a convicted MURDERER of a police officer, Please let us not loose fact of what this beast was! Yes he may have been a Jew but that does not excuse his criminal acts nor the fact of Jewish organizations trying to make him our to be a Tzaddik. ”

“ How about a memorial fund for the police officer he killed? ”