Welcome, Guest! - or
Easy to remember!  »  VinNews.com

Jerusalem - State to Court: Bringing Korban Pesach to Har Habayis Would Provoke Muslims

Published on: March 21, 2010 02:01 PM
Change text size Text Size  
Bookmark and Share
FileFile

Jerusalem - State attorneys asked Sunday for the Supreme Court to forbid Jews to bring sacrifices on the Temple Mount.

The appeal to the court was a response to a petition from the Temple Mount Institute, which requested permission to bring a sacrifice on the Temple Mount prior to Passover.

The Temple Mount Institute argued that Jews are commanded to bring a sacrifice prior to Passover, and that by prohibiting them from doing so, the state was violating its own laws protecting freedom of worship.

State attorneys argued that the sacrifice would be a dangerous provocation of Muslim sensitivities. “Performing the ritual on the Temple Mount would deal a severe blow to public safety and security,” they said.

The sacrifice would be dangerous “particularly at the current time,” they said, apparently in reference to recent Muslim riots over the dedication of the rebuilt Hurva synagogue in Jerusalem’s Old City.

Advertisement:

Muslim and Palestinian Authority leaders incited their followers to violence, claiming that the rededication of the synagogue was part of a Jewish plan to seize control of the Temple Mount.

In past years, the Supreme Court ruled that Jews may not offer sacrifices on the Temple Mount due to the possibility of a violent Muslim response. The Temple Mount Institute has performed an educational demonstration of the Passover sacrifice instead.


More of today's headlines

Berlin - Nazi claims that as many as 500,000 people died during the Allied bombing of Dresden in the Second World War were exaggerated, a group of German scientists have... New Jersey - Thousands of New Jerseyans have had to wait a little longer than usual to get their latest unemployment checks. Residents who have their checks directly...

 

Total64

Read Comments (64)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Those radicals in Israel just don't plan to give up their weird craziness? Even when its against the Torah?

2

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:11 PM Anonymous Says:

One would think it would provoke many if not most frum Jews, too.

3

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Uh, why do I have this vague, uneasy feeling that moshiach came and I missed it?

4

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

One would think it would provoke many if not most frum Jews, too.

Leider, we are not a issue by them

5

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Religion the root cause of many conflicts as they say. These selfish radicals that are trying to make some political point don't care about others in society. They will not mind starting an intifada with this stupid sheep slaughtering that has not been done for thousands of years. They won't be the ones facing bullets and stones, it is the 18 and 19 year old IDF kids who will have to mop up the mess that this "Temple Mount Institute" will cause.

6

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:30 PM anonymous Says:

Don't be an am haaretz - there are a variety of opinions on the subject - and to anon 2:11 - you are proving that you are not really frum by advocating violance

7

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:33 PM uneducated Says:

I thought my rebbe once taught us that there is nothing wrong with bringing a korbon should one desire to do so. Maybe I misunderstood him. If someone is knowledgeable in this area, can you explain the halachos behind this?

8

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:38 PM Finally Says:

We hAve been waiting for so long. I hope they are allowed to slaughter the korban Pesach!!!.
To all you sucker posting on vin that don't like it, GET A LIFE.

9

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:41 PM pityu Says:

this mindless idiotic behaviour has to be stoped theese religious fanatics belong in a mental institution not on the streets of jerusalem i am ashamed of being jewish in their mind anything goes they are making a mockery of yiddishkeit

10

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:45 PM Anonymous Says:

If god would want us to slaughter sheeps for pesach he would've surely sent someone down here advising us to do so, unfortunately we have been exiled by him from the bet hamikdosh and apparently there's no demand up there for our korbonos, so please do not please god with actions he dislikes at the moment.

11

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:47 PM dems be babies Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Those radicals in Israel just don't plan to give up their weird craziness? Even when its against the Torah?

really, against the torah??? whose torah???

according to the one MOshe Rabeinu recieved fromt eh one up high, it is absolutely mutar according to many rishonim and achronim!

12

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:48 PM dems be babies Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Those radicals in Israel just don't plan to give up their weird craziness? Even when its against the Torah?

from the new sanhedrins website:
Obviously, the destruction of the Beit Hamikdash (Temple in Jerusalem) and the restrictions imposed by conquerors on Jewish access Jerusalem and to the Temple Mount, resulted in the cessation of the Korban Pesach.

Yet the fact that there was no longer any Temple did not mean that one could not offer sacrifices, including the Korban Pesach. According to the Rambam, the sanctity of the Temple Mount remains. Not only is it possible to sacrifice the Korban Pesach, there remains an obligation to do so on the Temple Mount. We have proof that the commandment of the Korban Pesach was observed, even after the destruction of the Temple. Rabban Gamliel who lived a hundred years after the destruction commanded his servant to roast the Korban Pesach (Pesachim 87b). Also, the Byzantine Caesar Yostaninos issued an edict forbidding the Jews from sacrificing the Korban Pesach as late as the Sixth Century of the Common Era, long after the destruction of The Temple. This shows the Jews were still offering the Korban Pessach long after the destruction.

13

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:49 PM dems be babies Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Those radicals in Israel just don't plan to give up their weird craziness? Even when its against the Torah?

cont.
With the loss of Jewish independence, the dispersal of the Jews throughout the world and, the severe persecutions endured by Jews who remained in the land under Christian and Muslim rulers (who sought to supersede Judaism physically as well as spiritually), the Temple Mount was made off-limits to Jews.

In addition to political and physical obstacles, observant Jews were also concerned by Jewish (Halachic) legal dilemmas such as ritual impurity. The Rambam (Maimonides) had already pronounced that if the majority of Jews were in a state of impurity they could perform sacrifices in such a condition (Beit Habekhira 16). There was also concern about establishing the lineage of the priests and building an appropriate altar without employing steel tools as per the biblical injunction. In the same way that the Jews abandoned dreams about a Jewish government or a Jewish army, and performing commandments dependent upon being in the Land of Israel, the commandment of Korban Pesach was also set aside to be resumed only upon a miraculous return to Zion and the rebuilding of the Temple.

14

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:50 PM dems be babies Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Those radicals in Israel just don't plan to give up their weird craziness? Even when its against the Torah?

cont.
The dream of restoring the Korban Pesach remained unactualized despite the liberation of Jerusalem during the Six Day War. For political considerations, the government of Israel continued to entrust the Temple Mount to the Muslim authorities. This encouraged the Jewish religious leadership to adopt a policy of caution postponing the need to revive the Korban Pesach.

15

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:53 PM Albert Einstein Says:

Reply to #7  
uneducated Says:

I thought my rebbe once taught us that there is nothing wrong with bringing a korbon should one desire to do so. Maybe I misunderstood him. If someone is knowledgeable in this area, can you explain the halachos behind this?

This is only true today if you are not Jewish.

If you are Jewish, you have to wait for Moshiach to come, and for the Third Beis haMikdash to be built, bimheirah biyameinu.

16

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:54 PM Elchonon Says:

Reply to #9  
pityu Says:

this mindless idiotic behaviour has to be stoped theese religious fanatics belong in a mental institution not on the streets of jerusalem i am ashamed of being jewish in their mind anything goes they are making a mockery of yiddishkeit

The fanatic in meah shrearim are better ? every sect and sector has fanatics.. vayakam pinchas ? some lishma. others act under the umbrella of piety..

These are jews that believe in this strongly.. they are much less fanatic than the shabbos nuts!!

the fact is that bringing the pesach is a clear directive in the torah and one of the first mitzvos.. but i dont see them burning garbage cans to get their way.

17

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

Religion the root cause of many conflicts as they say. These selfish radicals that are trying to make some political point don't care about others in society. They will not mind starting an intifada with this stupid sheep slaughtering that has not been done for thousands of years. They won't be the ones facing bullets and stones, it is the 18 and 19 year old IDF kids who will have to mop up the mess that this "Temple Mount Institute" will cause.

How can you call the mitvah of korben peasach stupid sheep slaugter. Are you jewish?

18

 Mar 21, 2010 at 02:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
pityu Says:

this mindless idiotic behaviour has to be stoped theese religious fanatics belong in a mental institution not on the streets of jerusalem i am ashamed of being jewish in their mind anything goes they are making a mockery of yiddishkeit

Are you saying that wanting to do a Mitzvah should be a condition to place someone in a institution?
Well I would think that about a Tish or other chasidic shtick but not a mitvah

19

 Mar 21, 2010 at 03:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Actually the kaftor vaperach - a Rishon- paskened thatsince most of klal yisroel are tamei and akorban pesach is brought even in tumah the korban pesach is mandated thatit be brought even w/o a bais mikdash but in the spot on the bais hamikdash!

20

 Mar 21, 2010 at 03:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

If god would want us to slaughter sheeps for pesach he would've surely sent someone down here advising us to do so, unfortunately we have been exiled by him from the bet hamikdosh and apparently there's no demand up there for our korbonos, so please do not please god with actions he dislikes at the moment.

I seems that you and many of the other comentarts are cought up with the satmara shita which is has gotten to kefirah! Trying to preform mitzvah's is what we are here for or what else are we here for to fight?

21

 Mar 21, 2010 at 03:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

If god would want us to slaughter sheeps for pesach he would've surely sent someone down here advising us to do so, unfortunately we have been exiled by him from the bet hamikdosh and apparently there's no demand up there for our korbonos, so please do not please god with actions he dislikes at the moment.

Maybe god did send us messages to be makriv korbonos but you didn't get the message? just maybe. Why is it that Arabs can go everywhere in israel but jews cannot go on the temple mount? I am not saying that its okay according to halacha, just saying that its not fair.

22

 Mar 21, 2010 at 03:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
pityu Says:

this mindless idiotic behaviour has to be stoped theese religious fanatics belong in a mental institution not on the streets of jerusalem i am ashamed of being jewish in their mind anything goes they are making a mockery of yiddishkeit

If you are ashamed of being jewish you should sit down and learn. Most things you are ashamed of are stupid however being makriv the korben peasach is a mitzvah no gray area

23

 Mar 21, 2010 at 03:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
Anonymous Says:

I seems that you and many of the other comentarts are cought up with the satmara shita which is has gotten to kefirah! Trying to preform mitzvah's is what we are here for or what else are we here for to fight?

When god wanted a korbon pesach every living jew got the message loud and clear, as to why arabs can go more places then jews? Well that's why there is 1 BILLION arabs and only maybe a few million jew out of which only 15% are religious.

24

 Mar 21, 2010 at 03:52 PM Anonymous Says:

according to some opinions, korbonos can be brought up only on the har habayis. having the bais hamikdosh built or not doesn't change anyrhing and the korbonos can still be brought up even without the bais hamikdosh.

25

 Mar 21, 2010 at 04:09 PM pityu Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

Are you saying that wanting to do a Mitzvah should be a condition to place someone in a institution?
Well I would think that about a Tish or other chasidic shtick but not a mitvah

what im saying is this kind of infantile mindless behaviour has nothing to do with mitzvoth it has all to do with attention grabing and touble making for the rest of the jews who are giving their life for the coutry this is so silly that i am embarrased as a jew grownups acting like immature children

26

 Mar 21, 2010 at 04:10 PM Anonymous Says:

about 100 years ago there were Tshuvos written by Big Gedolim in europe that wanted to be Makriv the Korbon Peasach based on their belief that it was practical to do so . Reb Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld responded to them that unfortunately the local rulers would not allow it so it was not practical although it may have been allowed and required from a Mitzva standpoint if not for the fact of the Turks and Arabs not allowing it .

27

 Mar 21, 2010 at 04:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
dems be babies Says:

really, against the torah??? whose torah???

according to the one MOshe Rabeinu recieved fromt eh one up high, it is absolutely mutar according to many rishonim and achronim!

Which rav advised you that it's mutar to go on the har habayis?and you're the 'talmud chochom'..

28

 Mar 21, 2010 at 04:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
dems be babies Says:

really, against the torah??? whose torah???

according to the one MOshe Rabeinu recieved fromt eh one up high, it is absolutely mutar according to many rishonim and achronim!

muter or not, those crazy radical dudes need to be locked up under 24 hour security, they are a danger to all of us.

29

 Mar 21, 2010 at 04:20 PM Can You Feel It Says:

Something special is happening here in Jerusalem. The Muslims are spiritually attuned to the coming changes, perhaps, and are trying to block any progress. We are so close to the End. Torah Jews, loving HaShem, are looking for opportunities to serve their Master. Halachic scholars, inspired by the expression of Daat Torah that comes from operating in the Land, are thinking about the system broadly. The State here is merely a placeholder government that lacks an ability to manage conflict without violating the principles on which it is built. What an irony these Gd loving folks have revealed in the current governance system. We are so close it's time to consider how to restore Torah ordained practices within a halachic framework, not merely citing ossified reasons to continue blocking Torah practices.

30

 Mar 21, 2010 at 04:27 PM Dovid Says:

I guess some fanatics are more acceptable than others. These guys should be OK as long as there is separate seating on the way to the korban.

31

 Mar 21, 2010 at 04:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

How can you call the mitvah of korben peasach stupid sheep slaugter. Are you jewish?

I don't think you will impress God by slaughtering a sheep for Pesah these days. This hasn't been practiced for thousands of years so this mitzva is irrelevant in our times. Seriously, what's more important "sacrificing" a smelly animal for God or security and stability on the streets of Jerusalem? We shouldn't stoop to the level of brainless Arabs with religious marathon games with starting unnecessary tensions and escalations. You will not get a mitzva for slaughtering a sheep or a goat because we don't have an authentic beis hamikdash and a cohen gadol.

32

 Mar 21, 2010 at 04:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Those radicals in Israel just don't plan to give up their weird craziness? Even when its against the Torah?

By the way if my memory serves me correct, according to the rambam even with the destruction of the temple one is obligated to bring a korban peasachif h is in Jerueselm.

33

 Mar 21, 2010 at 04:54 PM Anonymous Says:

How about if the we riled up our congregations to start riots against the Arabs fro not letting us on our own Mountain?!?!?! Instead of rioting against each other? Maybe, just maybe, thats, what Hashem is waiting for~

34

 Mar 21, 2010 at 05:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

Religion the root cause of many conflicts as they say. These selfish radicals that are trying to make some political point don't care about others in society. They will not mind starting an intifada with this stupid sheep slaughtering that has not been done for thousands of years. They won't be the ones facing bullets and stones, it is the 18 and 19 year old IDF kids who will have to mop up the mess that this "Temple Mount Institute" will cause.

"Stupid Sheep Slaughtering"... Is this how you refer to the Korban Pesach???
The fact is the dedication of the rebuilt Hurva caused riots which should show that the root cause of the riots is intolerance by the arabs not our actions. I am not advocating the temple mount institute's opinion but they are not the ones causing the arabs to riot, it is the arabs themselves.

35

 Mar 21, 2010 at 05:13 PM Anonymous Says:

How will we know if person bringing the Korbon is truly a Kohen?

For instance, I have J-1e P58 Haplogroup Kohen Modal DNA. This is the current "gold standard" for Kohen DNA. I also have a family tradition of being a Kohen with documents going back to 1818 in Poland signed by an ancestor who was a famous Rav in his generation. Would this be enough Halachicly to bring a Korbon in these times?

Does anyone know how they are going to chose the Kohen?

36

 Mar 21, 2010 at 05:29 PM Lawyer Says:

1. The bringing of Kobran Pesach in our times (meaning after the destruction of the BHMK) is a very complex halakhic issue, over which numerous teshuvos and discussions were had among the Rishonim and Acharonim.

Although tumah huttrah be tsibbur, there are many other halakhic issues. For one, who is a kohen today? For another, where is the mizbeach? Those alone make it impossible to fulfill the mitzvah.

2. What this case does bring out is the point that the whole notion of applying "law" -- whether Israeli or International law -- to the situation is a complete misnomer. The bottom line is we cannot do it because the Arabs will riot. That, unfortunately, is not a legal reason to deny someone their religious rights -- no court anywhere in the world would accept it -- but it is still the reality. (Imagine a court in Europe or the U.S. being told, "We cannot let a synagogue or mosque open up, because the locals will riot and we cannot control it." The Court would not allow that.)

The whole notion of applying "law" here is absurd. The Arabs will do what they want by force of riot. Period.

37

 Mar 21, 2010 at 05:59 PM pityu Says:

Reply to #29  
Can You Feel It Says:

Something special is happening here in Jerusalem. The Muslims are spiritually attuned to the coming changes, perhaps, and are trying to block any progress. We are so close to the End. Torah Jews, loving HaShem, are looking for opportunities to serve their Master. Halachic scholars, inspired by the expression of Daat Torah that comes from operating in the Land, are thinking about the system broadly. The State here is merely a placeholder government that lacks an ability to manage conflict without violating the principles on which it is built. What an irony these Gd loving folks have revealed in the current governance system. We are so close it's time to consider how to restore Torah ordained practices within a halachic framework, not merely citing ossified reasons to continue blocking Torah practices.

you cant be serious and you really think that israel and its people will be safe if torah ordained practices will be inforced like in iran you are out of youre mind you are a danger to us all includind youreself just look at iran and you can clearly see what will happen in israel you just dont learn from history or the past as the saying goes if you dont learn from the past youre doomed to repeat it and reapeating means destruction you shoite that you are

38

 Mar 21, 2010 at 06:07 PM shmilu Says:

Reply to #35  
Anonymous Says:

How will we know if person bringing the Korbon is truly a Kohen?

For instance, I have J-1e P58 Haplogroup Kohen Modal DNA. This is the current "gold standard" for Kohen DNA. I also have a family tradition of being a Kohen with documents going back to 1818 in Poland signed by an ancestor who was a famous Rav in his generation. Would this be enough Halachicly to bring a Korbon in these times?

Does anyone know how they are going to chose the Kohen?

interestingly i am a j2 haplogroup and every one of my 40 matches is a kohen i just read that new genetic research indicates that jewish priesthood has multiple lineages that means not one aron but several founders of kohenet i can also go back 200 years since i found my ggg grandfathers matzeiva with the kohen hands so who knows

39

 Mar 21, 2010 at 06:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

Maybe god did send us messages to be makriv korbonos but you didn't get the message? just maybe. Why is it that Arabs can go everywhere in israel but jews cannot go on the temple mount? I am not saying that its okay according to halacha, just saying that its not fair.

You're saying that its not fair that we are in Golus?

40

 Mar 21, 2010 at 07:49 PM Anonymous Says:

it seems like many people here don't have idea what their talking about.
1) from a Torah perspective if Jew today is in Jerusalem on Erev Pesach, there are many problems involved, and halachically may be obligated to bring a Korban Pesach, and therefore it is advised not to be in Jerusalem at that time of the day( Erev Pesach Mincha time)
2) today we are still obligated to bring the Korban Pesach, only that because it's not practicably possible we therefore say the "Seder Korban Pesach" on the first night of Pesach.


it's about time people realize that there is no reason to be embarrassed of FRUM people or what they do(except when it's against Torah), the moslems are not embarrassed of the things they do and neither are the christians, we have to be proud to be Jewish and be proud of the Jewish people and especially proud of the people who follow Torah, and we don't have to explain to anybody why we follow the Torah, and when the moslems will realize that we don't care of what they think about us, they will stop bothering us.

41

 Mar 21, 2010 at 08:15 PM Anonymous Says:

There were Yerushalmi yidden that would leave jerusalem for pesach ,in order to be "bederech Rechoka" since being in Yerushalaim would mean they are commanded to bring the korban Pesach which was problematic politically and Halachacally.

42

 Mar 21, 2010 at 08:29 PM Can You Feel It Says:

Reply to #37  
pityu Says:

you cant be serious and you really think that israel and its people will be safe if torah ordained practices will be inforced like in iran you are out of youre mind you are a danger to us all includind youreself just look at iran and you can clearly see what will happen in israel you just dont learn from history or the past as the saying goes if you dont learn from the past youre doomed to repeat it and reapeating means destruction you shoite that you are

Clearly I am referring to the right of these individuals to pursue their religious liberty, and finding an halachic approach to doing so. Not the State mandating forced observance of Torah precepts on individuals. You have made a huge leap here. And the personal attack is out of line, especially in such poor grammar.

43

 Mar 21, 2010 at 09:18 PM ChelmiTe Says:

A Jew breathing in Eretz Yisroel also provokes Muslims.
But shooting Katuyas rockets all over is not provocative!

44

 Mar 21, 2010 at 09:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Even if it were arguably mutar to bring a korban pesach prior to z'man moishiach and binyan bayis shlishi, which it is clearly NOT, the security consequences of doing so and triggering arab riots would always trump any such mitzvah. Security always takes priority over discretionary halachic practices.

45

 Mar 21, 2010 at 10:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
shmilu Says:

interestingly i am a j2 haplogroup and every one of my 40 matches is a kohen i just read that new genetic research indicates that jewish priesthood has multiple lineages that means not one aron but several founders of kohenet i can also go back 200 years since i found my ggg grandfathers matzeiva with the kohen hands so who knows

Maybe while we're at it, someone can help us reestablish the "watches" performed at the Bes Hamikdash

46

 Mar 21, 2010 at 10:20 PM Anonymous Says:

If this were the proper derech we'd see Rav Elyoshiv Shlita preparing his lamb too.

47

 Mar 21, 2010 at 10:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Rav Eliyashiv, Z'tl, knows better than to antagonize the arabs irrespective of what his private views might be regarding whether ritual sacrifice is relevant in the modern era.

48

 Mar 21, 2010 at 10:55 PM A.N. Says:

"Reb Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld responded to them that unfortunately the local rulers would not allow it so it was not practical although it may have been allowed and required from a Mitzva standpoint if not for the fact of the Turks and Arabs not allowing it ."

That's what the Chasam Sofer said as well. That being the case, the Institute is doing some very good work. We have abandoned the program of the Chofetz Chaim and others who advocated learning kodshim. Instead, we are clueless about the halachos that will pertinent very soon. Note that the Institute has followed the recommendation of the gov't who determined the Muslims would freak out. In other words the situation has not changed much since Rav Sonnenfeld and the Chasam Sofer. The Institute did not go ahead with it's desired plans- thus following the tradition pronounced by above mentioned gedolim z'tl. They can't be honestly considered radicals. (Note that the extremist Temple Mount Faithful are an entirely different group.)

49

 Mar 21, 2010 at 11:32 PM chief doofis Says:

Reply to #12  
dems be babies Says:

from the new sanhedrins website:
Obviously, the destruction of the Beit Hamikdash (Temple in Jerusalem) and the restrictions imposed by conquerors on Jewish access Jerusalem and to the Temple Mount, resulted in the cessation of the Korban Pesach.

Yet the fact that there was no longer any Temple did not mean that one could not offer sacrifices, including the Korban Pesach. According to the Rambam, the sanctity of the Temple Mount remains. Not only is it possible to sacrifice the Korban Pesach, there remains an obligation to do so on the Temple Mount. We have proof that the commandment of the Korban Pesach was observed, even after the destruction of the Temple. Rabban Gamliel who lived a hundred years after the destruction commanded his servant to roast the Korban Pesach (Pesachim 87b). Also, the Byzantine Caesar Yostaninos issued an edict forbidding the Jews from sacrificing the Korban Pesach as late as the Sixth Century of the Common Era, long after the destruction of The Temple. This shows the Jews were still offering the Korban Pessach long after the destruction.

What is your source for Justinian outlawing the Pesach sacrifice? He most likely outlawed the Samaritan sacrifices, but a careful reading of all my Byzantine sources (Procopius, Gibbon, Ostrogorsky, Lord Norwich, etc.) show no references to Jewish sacrifices. There are some vague references, however, to a revival of the sacrificial rites under the Sassanids (time of Heraclius), early 7th century.. Besides, if Justinian were still a Caesar, it would have been while his uncle Justin was still Emperor. You were a Caesar while you were next in line for the throne, afterwards, you became Augustus, or under Byzantine rule, but later than Justinian I, Basileous. I think your history is a bit erroneous. Don't pasken from bad history!

50

 Mar 22, 2010 at 02:25 AM Witness Says:

Also has anyone heard of any updates regarding what the Supreme Court in Israel has decided to do with this case?

Will they allow it?

51

 Mar 22, 2010 at 06:43 AM halachah Says:

Reply to #7  
uneducated Says:

I thought my rebbe once taught us that there is nothing wrong with bringing a korbon should one desire to do so. Maybe I misunderstood him. If someone is knowledgeable in this area, can you explain the halachos behind this?

"The location of the altar is very specific and it may not ever be changed from that location...."; "and there is a common tradition that the place where Dovid and Shlomo made an altar in Goren Aronah, That is the place where Abraham built an Altar and bound Yitzchok, where Noah built an Altar after he left the Ark and where Cain and Abel brought there sacrifices, and from that spot Odom was created...";
Rambam Hil. Bais Habachira chap 2.
Zevachim 53b

You can't bring a sacrifice in the ezras nashim, or the chail, or the lishchas hagazis, or the heichel. If you don't know where the exact position of the mizbeach is, you can't bring a korbon. The argument of Tumah hutra bitzibor, the construction of the mizbeach, the bigdai kehuna, the kailim, etc. are all moot if you don't know the mokom hamizbeach, end of discussion

52

 Mar 22, 2010 at 08:09 AM Moish Says:

The Temple Institute is above Rav Eliyashiv Shlit"a, they operate under the authority of the "nascent InsaneHedrin" which is headed by Adin Steinzaltz- Even Yisroel who published a translation of the Talmud ignoring the traditional Tzuras HaDaf (against the wishes of the Lubavitcher Rebbe Z"L) and a bunch of Kahchniks who do not accept the authority of mainstream Gdolim and Poskim. The Temple Institute panders to the Evangelical Christians who fund them and believe that building the Beis HaMikdosh and sacrificing Korbonos will hasten the so-called second coming of their false messiah J.C. AKA Yoshke Pondrik

53

 Mar 22, 2010 at 08:41 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #51  
halachah Says:

"The location of the altar is very specific and it may not ever be changed from that location...."; "and there is a common tradition that the place where Dovid and Shlomo made an altar in Goren Aronah, That is the place where Abraham built an Altar and bound Yitzchok, where Noah built an Altar after he left the Ark and where Cain and Abel brought there sacrifices, and from that spot Odom was created...";
Rambam Hil. Bais Habachira chap 2.
Zevachim 53b

You can't bring a sacrifice in the ezras nashim, or the chail, or the lishchas hagazis, or the heichel. If you don't know where the exact position of the mizbeach is, you can't bring a korbon. The argument of Tumah hutra bitzibor, the construction of the mizbeach, the bigdai kehuna, the kailim, etc. are all moot if you don't know the mokom hamizbeach, end of discussion

Since there is no more Misbayach, the issur of bringing a korban on a Bama no longer applies.

54

 Mar 22, 2010 at 09:55 AM David Says:

Forget the Muslims-- the idea of offering animal sacrifices right now is offensive to any normal person. From a Jewish perspective, there is no temple and no place to offer sacrifices. This amounts to no more than an attempt to violate multiple Jewish laws, including tzar ba'alei chaim, while grandstanding in the most outrageous way imaginable.

55

 Mar 22, 2010 at 09:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

Rav Eliyashiv, Z'tl, knows better than to antagonize the arabs irrespective of what his private views might be regarding whether ritual sacrifice is relevant in the modern era.

To the best of my knowledge, Horav Elyashiv Shlit'o is alive & well. We need him on earth, so don't send him away.

56

 Mar 22, 2010 at 10:26 AM Anonymous Says:

The location of the mizbeach can be determined via ultrasound imaging. We know that the mizbeach is solid rock all the way donw - everything else was hollowed out. So we can find the answers, if we actually want to be avdei Hashem. Anyone looking for excuses without considering solutions is just defensive of being a Jew. Shame on you!

57

 Mar 22, 2010 at 10:41 AM BG Says:

The _______ would be dangerous “particularly at the current time”
How many times do we hear this, and over how many subjects? Some will always be offended, never be appeased, and never compromise.

If we are to have a Jewish State, then the state must be for Jews and Jews also need to make room for each other, not just their sworn enemies.

58

 Mar 22, 2010 at 10:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

Religion the root cause of many conflicts as they say. These selfish radicals that are trying to make some political point don't care about others in society. They will not mind starting an intifada with this stupid sheep slaughtering that has not been done for thousands of years. They won't be the ones facing bullets and stones, it is the 18 and 19 year old IDF kids who will have to mop up the mess that this "Temple Mount Institute" will cause.

"This stupid sheep slautering"? You are the classic Rasha Ma Hu Omer from the Hagadda...

59

 Mar 22, 2010 at 11:19 AM AH Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

I don't think you will impress God by slaughtering a sheep for Pesah these days. This hasn't been practiced for thousands of years so this mitzva is irrelevant in our times. Seriously, what's more important "sacrificing" a smelly animal for God or security and stability on the streets of Jerusalem? We shouldn't stoop to the level of brainless Arabs with religious marathon games with starting unnecessary tensions and escalations. You will not get a mitzva for slaughtering a sheep or a goat because we don't have an authentic beis hamikdash and a cohen gadol.

Hm, what other mitzvos are "irrelevant in our times"? Maybe Shabbos, kashrus, taharas hamishpachah? Why are you bothering to remain a Jew (or are you?) if you think that mitzvos go in and out of "relevance" depending on what people think?

60

 Mar 22, 2010 at 11:21 AM AH Says:

Reply to #54  
David Says:

Forget the Muslims-- the idea of offering animal sacrifices right now is offensive to any normal person. From a Jewish perspective, there is no temple and no place to offer sacrifices. This amounts to no more than an attempt to violate multiple Jewish laws, including tzar ba'alei chaim, while grandstanding in the most outrageous way imaginable.

Since when do we decide what mitzvos to do or not to do based on whether it's "offensive to any normal person"? Our job is to serve Hashem and follow what He says, not what the average man on the street does.

Furthermore, are you accusing Hashem, Who wrote in His Torah the mitzvah to bring sacrifices, of violating "tza[a]r ba'alei chaim"?

61

 Mar 22, 2010 at 01:15 PM HaQer Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

Religion the root cause of many conflicts as they say. These selfish radicals that are trying to make some political point don't care about others in society. They will not mind starting an intifada with this stupid sheep slaughtering that has not been done for thousands of years. They won't be the ones facing bullets and stones, it is the 18 and 19 year old IDF kids who will have to mop up the mess that this "Temple Mount Institute" will cause.

Even if you don't agree with what they are doing, you should not refer to the Korban Pesach as a "stupid sheep". We have been davening for thousands of years to be able to bring a Korban Pesach once again and these people feel that the time has come to actually do it.

to add to #11, not only is it muttar but a chiyuv with a punishment of kares for being mivatel it.

There are of course a few problems with us performing the mitzvah, as #35 pointed out, how do we choose a kohen?

Then there is the inyan of pikuach nefesh. If building a mizbeach and bringing a korban will cause riots, then most probably shev v'al ta'aseh adif, though I am not a posek. I assume that these Temple Mount people have their Rabbis who are mattiring it while the rest of the Gedolim are not.

62

 Mar 22, 2010 at 01:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #53  
Anonymous Says:

Since there is no more Misbayach, the issur of bringing a korban on a Bama no longer applies.

If I recall correctly, once the Bais Hamikdash was built, Bamos became assur forever.

63

 Mar 22, 2010 at 01:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #54  
David Says:

Forget the Muslims-- the idea of offering animal sacrifices right now is offensive to any normal person. From a Jewish perspective, there is no temple and no place to offer sacrifices. This amounts to no more than an attempt to violate multiple Jewish laws, including tzar ba'alei chaim, while grandstanding in the most outrageous way imaginable.

If they plan to shecht it correctly, then there is no issue of tzar ba'alei chaim.

64

Sign-in to post a comment

Scroll Up
Advertisements:

Sell your scrap gold and broken jewelry and earn hard cash sell gold today!