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Monsey, NY +Butcher Sells Treifa Chicken as Kosher+

Published on: September 15, 2006 06:19 AM
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Monsey, NY Butcher Sells Treifa Chicken 5 as Kosher 09/05/06 

Monsey, NY - Shevach Meats who rented some space inside Hatzlacha grocery store in Monsey, NY was caught selling nonkosher (treifa) chicken as Kosher from Kiryas Yoel. His, and the hashgacha’s house of cards came falling down in the middle of last week, when one of the owners of the grocery was told by one worker of Kiryat Joel meat slaughterhouse offhand, that the butcher had not recieved a shipment of chicken from them in 3 weeks. But the owners realized that they had been selling Kiryas Joel chicken the entire time, so they got scared and called their hashgacha. The Mashgichim broke into the butcher’s cooler at night and found 19 cases of unmarked chicken, they tasted the skin and it did not taste salty at all. Also did they found that the kidneys were still intact, which on kosher chicken shouldn’t be, since it’s removed before salting. At that time they called in the butcher who insisted it was Empire chicken. They checked with an Empire Mashgiach who lives in Monsey who told them that it isn’t their kosher chicken. He was immediately ejected from Hatzlacha, as the investigation continued, more came out and it was discovered that for at least 6 months he had been selling twice as much meat retail as he had bought from known Shechita houses, not even counting what he had sold wholesale to halls, yeshivas etc. Furthermore, some people had noticed for months that the chicken was less salty than usual, when they asked the butcher about it, he told them that they are using a new low sodium salt in the kashering process, which was false, and that may also extend to meat too.

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H’Rav Weissmandel put out a letter advising everyone to kasher all their keilim.


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Read Comments (1077)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Oct 04, 2006 at 02:21 PM Anonymous Says:

How did this matter of Treife chickens morph into Eruv discussions?

What's the latest on the Kashrus issue?

2

 Oct 01, 2006 at 01:43 AM Anonymous Says:

To "everybody has to do the same in public"-

If the Eiruv issue would have never come up, we would still never all look, walk, talk, dress, think and act the same- NONSENSE!

Let's at least be at peace with one another- That's what Hashem wants from us.

3

 Sep 30, 2006 at 09:33 PM Anonymous Says:

achdus great
but what about "LO SISGODUDU" that everybody has to do the same in public. That's ACHDUS!!!

4

 Sep 29, 2006 at 07:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Everyone should follow their Rebbe/Rov with the Eruv issue.

If we keep knocking the other side , we'll all CH"V suffer more Yesurim this year IN ACHDUS. Is it worth it?

5

 Sep 28, 2006 at 08:47 PM Anonymous Says:

well I can't help you look in the sefer dalsei ha'ir
in odesso the divrei makiel writes in chelek 3 that how can you make a differance between 600,000 in the city or street when we do not see it in the reshonim in chelek 4 he says that if the city is not open from one side to the other side that the 600,000 can not go to both sides of the city there may be an heter.
but brooklyn that the roads are made in a way that the population can flow all over what heter do you have IT IS A RESHUS HARABIM D'ORAYSO yo need DALSIS.

6

 Sep 28, 2006 at 02:39 AM emes Says:

i told u already just ....

READ!!!!
1) it's not ME saying it, its in igros moshe!! explaining the above.

2) boy r you mixed up!! about Warsaw ; there were 2 parts 1 called praga, but the greater part warsaw 'on its own' had a population of OVER 600,000

about the dalsos ; that had nothing to do with the 600,000 'reshus harabim' problem; 1] they coundn't build a 'tzuras hapesach' as a lot of polish cities see avnei nezer (the goyim would rip them etc.)
2] the whole reason altogether why they needed a tzuras hapesach cause the 'river freezing'... boy did u create a chulent torah that problem had nothing with the fact that it united the 2 parts ...

just a problem mentioned in all the poskim that when the river freezes it can not be used as a mechitzah anymore see the above tsuvas to r' segal from stanislover rav

and in warsaw the mechitzah was the water as mentioned above by GOAN that so it says in Chadushei Harim

3)Lodz, & Addesa... had over 600,000

7

 Sep 27, 2006 at 11:37 PM Anonymous Says:

drei kup
which city in europe had 600,000 that had an eruv??
warsaw had two parts of the river together they had about a million the question was since in the winter the river froze if it was counted as one. the radziner rebbe built "dalsis" in warsaw because of this shaila (look in his sefer dalsei ha'ir)

8

 Sep 27, 2006 at 01:18 AM emes Says:

anon 12.34/ERUV

If so, whats the whole 'Hesber' to what he's defferentiating between BP to all the great cities in pre-war Europe that contained a population exceeding 600,000 - that the section within the encircled constructed tzuras hapesach had less than 600,000,

even though the city itself had exceeded to more than 600,000 the tzuras hpesach separates it from the rest of the city!

the same goes to BP, BUT someone mislead him that NO!! BP DOES have within its tzuras hapesach.... MORE... therefore its' not like the above cities of Europe....

JUST READ THE WORDS BLACK ON WHITE !!!

So u woudn't fordrei your OWN kupp!!

9

 Sep 25, 2006 at 01:51 PM goombash Says:

o.gevald
you forgot us:
Orange Jews, Prune Jews, Grape Jews and Tomato Jews. (the rest I don't really care about)

10

 Sep 25, 2006 at 12:34 PM Anonymous Says:

I would like to know if you will admit that NO BODY FOOLED RAV MOSHE FEINSTEIN will you do tsuvah???
RAV MOSHE FEINSTEIN writes that there is 600,000 in "י"ב מיל" boro park & flatbush are in the י"ב מיל it is a reshus harabim now ADMIT is there 600,000 in י"ב מיל RIGHT ?? so what your drein a kup.

11

 Sep 24, 2006 at 11:36 PM O.Gevald Says:

Sorry, that I'm not taking the time to send each one of you a personal note,
with my original and heartfelt greetings for you to be written and sealed
into the Book of Life,
To modern, ultra & just plain Orthodox Jews, Haredi Jews, Mitnagdim,
Conservative, Conservadox, Reform & ConForm Jews, Gartel Jews,
non-Gartel Jews, Jews with sheitels & without, Tichel Jews, Sheitel,
tichel & hat Jews, adult & child Jews, Frum from birth Jews, Baalei
Teshuva, Satmar, Agudah, black hat, kipa s'ruga, Mir, Munkacs, Belz,
Beta Yisrael, Bobov, Chaim Berlin, Y.U. Jews, payos in front of the
ear Jews, payos in back of the ear Jews, kipa only in shul/ hat in
shul/ no shul at all Jews, Mizrachi Jews, Jews by choice, Robe on
Friday night Jews, Likud Jews, Labor Jews, Meimad Jews, Ten Lost
Tribes Jews, cardiac Jews, Irish Jews, Black Jews, White Jews,
Rav Nachman Jews, Rav Shlomo Jews, Neturei Karta Jews, Hasidim,
Telz, Lakewood & Ner Yisrael Jews, Chofetz Chaim Jews,
Zaftig Jews, skinny Jews, Fremeiners, Dinevers, Kookies,
Celebrity Jews, Generation X,Y & Z Jews, NCSY Jews,
Solomon Schechter Jews, Chinuch Atzmai Jews, Fackenheim Jews,
Yitz Greenberg Jews, Kahane Jews, Feminist Jews, Chauvinist Jews,
egalitarian Jews, traditional Jews, Kaddish-zuger Jews, political
Jews, intellectual Jews, ignorant Jews, tomato Jews & orange Jews,
Shinui Jews, Shas Jews, Israeli Jews, American Jews, Persian Jews,
Russ Jews, Galitzianers, Litvaks, Polacks, Birthright Jews, single
Jews, married Jews, wish I was married Jews, Greener Jews, Redder
Jews, Scandinavian Jews, South of the Border Jews, Italian Jews, Bald
Jews, Hairy Jews, Canadian Jews, Latino Jews, Ladino Jews, Jews in
kapatas, Jews in T-shirts, Jews in sandals, Jews in gym shoes, Jews in
cowboy boots, Hungarian Jews, Czech Jews, Jews on the Hungarian-Czech
Border Jews, Ashkenazim, Sefardim, Yemenite Jews, Afrikaaner Jews,
Romanian Jews, Zionists, non-Zionists, anti-Zionists, post-Zionists,
Jews with an accent, Jews who speak perfect Midwestern English Hebrew,
Native American Jews, Anglo-Saxon Jews, French Jews, German Jews,
Greek Jews, Indian Jews, Chinese Jews, Jew who likes David Levy Jew,
Wannabee Jews, Conspiracy Theory Jews, Japanese Jews, Shayna Punim
Jews, Meesekite Jews, Closet Jews, Shnorrers, Baalei Tzedaka,
Tzadikim, Baynonim, Rashaim, Chacham-Tam-Ayni Yodea Jews, Chevramen &
Forbisseners, kvetching Jews, Guta Neshama Jews, Vizhnitzer, Ger,
Gerer, Chabadnik, Kohenim, Levi'im, Yisraelim, Machers, Mavens, &
Pashet Jews, EVERYKIND of Jew in this vast Universe:

May we all unite - without a fight!
And together ignite G-D's Great Light.
May we see a sweet and blessed year together with a true peace!!!

Shana Tovah!

12

 Sep 22, 2006 at 11:03 AM Anonymous Says:

MF gave a Get to his wife last Sunday. He took a flight to Israel on Tuesday evening

13

 Sep 22, 2006 at 01:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Is it true that he spent Shabbos in BP with his father?

14

 Sep 22, 2006 at 01:05 AM Anonymous Says:

To those that point a finger at the Litvishe community and say that only a Litvak could have been behind this crime to humanity, may I remind them, that numbers prove that among frum Jews filling up jails for serious crimes, such as arson and embezzling, the ratio of Litvaks to Chassidim is a tiny fraction. Chassidish criminals specialize in different areas. Only Hashem can judge which group is/has more of a leaning towards serious crime.

15

 Sep 21, 2006 at 08:00 PM Anonymous Says:

I heard about that rumor too - I doubt it though - The rumor started Tuesday - From the fact that nobody confirmed it by now - This cannot be true - no way - personally - I think this whole story is simply not true - This must have been a setup - From what I hear about Mr Finkel he is a very pious jew - I think he was set up or there is more to the story -

16

 Sep 21, 2006 at 07:55 PM Anonymous Says:

MF is alive and well. He is a broken person who is now in hiding for obvious reasons. He gave his wife a get. I cannot disclose where he is but my sources are very reliable.

17

 Sep 21, 2006 at 04:08 PM Anonymous Says:

CAN ANYONE SUBSTANTIATE OR REFUTE THE RUMORS FLOATING AROUND THE WORLD THAT "MF" COMMITTED SUCIDE???

18

 Sep 21, 2006 at 01:43 PM emes Says:

anon/eruv 9.49

I told u already THAT THIS exactly IS your problem:

YOU JUST CAN NOT READ!!!

I MYSELF DON'T hold any position that i owe you any explanation at all. I just Quoted and pointed out the words of the 'Stanislover Rav'(known as the 'Horei B'samim') that this his position- as he deals with it on p. 72, And explains so from the g'morah in shabbos (96b) perak h'zorek JUST READ THE WORDS!!

YES and start learning mesechet shabbos from the main source which is the above g'mora and rashi that says: "moshe heychan etc. b'machneh levi, "umachneh levi' reshus harabim" ,rashi explains why is only machni levi reshus harabim (and not machnei yisrael) :
sh' hakol metzuyan etzel moshe rabeinu "
so ask rashi (WHICH U OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T KNOW) your difficulties- not me!

And as R' segal wrote - that ON the STREETS of the EAST SIDE there is no 600,000, even though MANHATTAN itself was KNOWN to have more than 600,000- actually close to 2,000,000

(except to your opinion; or that the mahrsham and the rest lived in a cave!?? that it was 'poshit' "concealed" to him through R' segal'S concealment the simple FACT that....
Must have been the "CONSPIRACY" of the century ?!!)

Because 600,000 occuppants WITHIN THE CITY ITSELF IS NOT CONS. R'SHUS HARABIM D'6000,000

And he explains and deals with it at lenght in his sefer SH'UT OZNEI YEHOSHUA ch 18 (see www. hebrewbooks. org)

by the way - about your Question look in sefer 'P'nai yehoshua' shabbos 5b, explains the same as the Stanislover Rav!!



PS you still didn't admit that you realy fouled up on the m'harsham & R segal!

One more thing - talking about concealing facts- see igros moshe vol 8;28 that some phony mislead Rav moshe to beleive that BP and flatbush "independetly" has a population of 600,000 !!

(see his position in regards to the eruvin in the greater cities of pre war europe, which the same goes to BP; that if the encirclement of the 'tzuras hapesach' has fewer than 600,000 it separates it's neighborhood from the rest of the city...?!)

19

 Sep 21, 2006 at 01:08 PM Anonymous Says:

To anon 9:49:
Please cite where "RAV MOSHE FEINSTEIN writes who ever carries in BORO PARK is a MECHALLEL SHABOS."

I assume the cite will refer to a tshuva in the Igros Moshe and will clearly refer to carrying with an eruv.

20

 Sep 20, 2006 at 09:49 PM Anonymous Says:

to non emes maybe you can explain to me were in machne levi were the 600,000 and when? "Moshe nota oholi mechutz lamachne" the only time was by "hakel" that was three timesin the whole 40 years and that was not on a street of 16 amos. rashi says clearly a city that has 600,000 people living there (eruvin 59) and many times rashi just says 600,000 in the city, NEVER does rashi qoute 600,000 only to a street, EVERY CHILD knows that rashi does NOT use extra words.
Learn mesectas eruvin and mesectas shabos and stop repeating some clowns that don't learn RAV MOSHE FEINSTEIN writes who ever carries in BORO PARK is a MECHALLEL SHABOS.

21

 Sep 20, 2006 at 07:00 PM v'yatziv Says:

TO:EMES,ANON 11:38

By the way - according to that mor- An. 11.38

( who wrote: " 'finkel for the eruv' cause - rav m. klein is his brother's uncle's sister's grandmother's somewhat MECHUTAN" ,or something like it)

Rav Bick and Rav Friedman (tenkah) are surely 100% for the eruv ....

WHY!?
Rav Yechazkel Roth shlitah(karlusberg) is Rav FREIDMAN'S MECHUTAN !!! (and not through his sister's brother's...etc.- his son is his son-in-law!)

Come-on every one knew Finkel the phony considred himself "shpits yeshivishe' guy" who actually WAS against the eruv like the story above - (pase'ld someone that used the ERUV)

SO CUT IT OUT, AND KEEP TO THE TOPIC!!

22

 Sep 20, 2006 at 03:57 PM Anonymous Says:

now nothing has changed other then chicken costs .50 cents more a pound and people are just being taken for aride by the rabbonim

23

 Sep 19, 2006 at 09:12 PM emes Says:

to A..n.s. 11:38

You still can't get it -

READ!!!!!

U R totally mixed up!!

You agree and point out - that Rav S. clearly writes in his kuntres (p. 19)there r 600,000 in Man.- (it's just that he told the m'harsham differently - than his kuntras)

The 'mahrsham' clearly starts off his Tshuvah to R' segal (pg. 58) with those words:

"I SAW your KUNTERAS that was printed etc......"

Which is the above tshuvah !!!

It's just that u can't admit and see ANYTHING that goes against your biased crooked kupp.

All the marsham says in the first place (p. 59) is, are the following words:

"YOU WROTE 'HACHA' LEKAH S"R" which means 'HERE' (Meaningly the EAST SIDE where the eruv was made - NOT manht.) THERE ARE NO 600,000!!!

NOT that MANHATAN doesn't have 600,000!!!

The same way u surely read all the tshuvas that GOAN quoted!?!

NO wonder he's not responding; guess he's heeding to our advise ...!!


By the way - look @ pg. 75 wrote the same thing to the RAV of 'stanislov',
on pg. 72 he writes clearly his position that the 600,000 need to be like machneh levi'- on one place.

24

 Sep 19, 2006 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:

the satmar rebbi ztl said that the story of the megale amukos. quoted in the last post is not true.he said if it was true it would have been brought down in the shu''t of that time. he said many stories were made up by the maskilim to make the religious look bad

25

 Sep 19, 2006 at 11:38 AM Anonymous Says:

goan you still did not admit that the mahrsham writes in his tsuvah that phoney segal told him that there is NO 600,000 to say osei rabim umvatel michiza now look in www.Hebrewbooks.org
{browse to sefer 'eruv vehotzah' pg. 59} and you will see clearly what phoney he was he knew there were 600,000 as you said on pg 19 but to the maharsham he lied. Again finkel is menashe klein mechutan he is for the eruv a cut out you belony.
orthdox jews are not going to blow shofer the first day rosh hashonah "shema yavereno" BELZIES will carry. the holy shabos will be "maliz yosher" for the orthodox jews that do NOT carry and will C"V talk bad on those that disgrace the shabos publicly. look in the minchas uni from the orech lnair.

26

 Sep 19, 2006 at 06:45 AM Anonymous Says:

taken fron the jp web site
My Machberes - The kashrus of chickens
By: Rabbi Gershon Tannenbaum



Cracow, Poland, Early 1600’s

Two orphans, both nephews and apprentices of a Cracow kosher butcher, left their oppressive apprenticeships and began their own kosher meat enterprise. Both unlearned, they had developed a secret scheme, wherein they successfully substituted non-kosher meat for kosher meats. Their prices were lower than the other Cracow kosher butchers, who were ultimately driven out of business. The years passed, and the two prospered. They became respected members of the community. They were charitable, admired and esteemed by the whole community. Devout homes felt privileged to patronize the partners. Their meats were considered kosher beyond question.

Their children entered into marriages with leading families. Their sons-in-laws were Torah scholars. One day one of the two butchers heard his son-in-law discussing the harsh retribution that Heaven inflicts, in the World-to-Come, upon those who cause another Jew to eat non-kosher foods. Shocked by the severity of the punishments, he reflected upon what he had done. He shared his fears and trepidation with his partner, who also was overtaken by panic.

The two confessed their iniquity and sought the counsel of Rabbi Noson Nota Shapiro (1585-1633), Rav of Cracow and revered author of Megaleh Amukos. Their sin of kosher food fraud shook the Cracow Jewish community, as well as all Jews everywhere. Jewish history records few such measurable deceptions in kosher foods. What happened in Cracow stands out.

New York City, 1880’s

The arrival of Torah giant Rabbi Jacob Joseph, zt”l (1840‑1902), in 1888 to serve as chief rabbi of New York, resulted in an open war against those who sold meat whose kashruth was questionable. The battles were fierce, and the chief rabbi sacrificed his health in the struggle. Prior to his arrival, meat sold as kosher had questionable certifications. Personally knowing theshochet (ritual slaughterer) or the vendor as being a truly pious person was considered the best and only guarantee of the meat’s kashruth. The chief rabbi saw beyond facades and sought to bring order to the kosher meat market. Ultimately, his strenuous efforts succeeded to a great degree.

Rabbi Joseph had ordered a shochet removed from Hi-Grade Kosher Meats, but that particular business establishment refused. The ensuing battle resulted in New York City codifying laws to safeguard kosher clientele, that became state law shortly thereafter. New York State’s kosher laws, enacted more than 100 years ago, greatly served to protect kosher consumers until the law was recently (2004) found unconstitutional and was rewritten. The present Kosher Law Enforcement agency, a division of New York State’s Department of Agriculture and Markets, is headed by Rabbi Luzer Weiss.

Monsey, 2006

Late Wednesday evening, August 30, the locked freezer of Shevach Quality Meats at 126 Maple Avenue, Monsey, NY, a tenant of Hatzlacha Groceries, was broken into by the proprietors to determine whether the meats being sold by Shevach were kosher. Shevach had been renting retail space within Hatzlacha, a popular Monsey supermarket. What the proprietors of the supermarket found and saw made their blood turn cold.

Shevach Quality Meats had begun operating at Hatzlacha more than 10 years ago and offered meats from many of the devoutly-observant slaughterhouses, including Belz, Empire, Kiryas Yoel, Meal Mart (Nirbatur), Satmar Meats (Meal Mart), and Vineland, all of which are unquestionably glatt kosher.

Shevach’s proprietor was held in high regard within the close-knit Monsey observant community. He served as baal koreh (Torah reader) at a prominent congregation. Shevach’s owner gave the daily Daf Yomi Talmud shiur (lectures) there every morning. In addition, he also served the shul as a shaliach tzibbur (prayer leader) during the Yomim Noraim (High Holy days). He is on the board of a prominent Monsey yeshiva and chaired the annual fund-raising event of another Monsey yeshiva.

He married into a highly-regarded family and has eight children. He married off five of the eight children to members of distinguished families. All are without blemish. The hechsher, kosher certification, of Shevach’s establishment was provided by a greatly respected senior rav.

In the past, questions had arisen regarding meat without kosher certification seals delivered by Shevach to caterers and commercial establishments. When the mashgichim (kosher supervisors) complained, they were advised by the certifying rabbi and other rabbis that Shevach must be given the benefit of the doubt because of his good reputation and that the deliveries should be accepted. Nevertheless, there were instances, though very few in number, where mashgichim either resigned or declined to accept the meat deliveries.

One of the owners of Hatzlacha is a brother-in-law of a key officer of Kiryas Yoel Meats, which is the sales arm of the Kiryas Yoel Beis Hashechita (slaughterhouse). Hatzlacha was unofficially advised that Kiryas Yoel Meats had stopped selling chickens to Shevach several weeks earlier due to late and non payments. Nevertheless, Kiryas Yoel chickens, clearly labeled, continued to be plentiful on Shevach’s refrigerated display shelves.

In recent months, the number of inquiries on the part of Shevach’s customers increased as to why his meats were not as salty as before. In particular, chicken soups cooked with chickens purchased at Shevach’s were found to lack the traditional salty taste of kosher. In response, Shevach’s owner claimed that Kiryas Yoel Meats were using a new low sodium salt in order to provide healthier chickens. Sometimes the response would be that Kiryas Yoel Meats was cutting back on the amount of salt used to the absolute minimum required by kosher law because of costs, or that inferior salt was being used by Kiryas Yoel.

The inquiries and complaints recently mushroomed into a cloud of question marks. In particular, an unnamed woman, a recent ba’alas teshuva, remarked that the chickens from Shevach suspiciously reminded her of the non-kosher chickens she had consumed in the past. Nevertheless, Shevach continued to be reckoned as a reliable source of kosher meats. Others complained of sometimes finding some of the chicken’s innards still fully attached, whereas the innards must be completely removed in order to properly salt the chickens in accordance with kosher law.

Mordechai Greenzweig, one of the owners of Hatzlacha, having heard the many grumbles, and now knowing that Kiryas Yoel had stopped shipping to Shevach, was stunned on that Wednesday to see an ample supply of Kiryas Yoel chickens, clearly labeled as such, on Shevach’s refrigerated display shelves. Discussing the matter with his concerned partners, the decision to act was made. Late that night Hatzlacha’s owners broke into the locked freezers used by Shevach.

They found boxes and boxes of raw chickens without any indication that the contents were kosher. Unlike kosher chickens, the unmarked chickens were completely free of feathers and stubble. Since kosher chickens are not rinsed in hot water nor treated with chemicals prior to salting, feather removal is never complete. Non-kosher chickens are almost totally free of feather stubs and have a markedly different color. The chickens in Shevach’s boxes also still had their innards intact.

Shevach’s certifying rabbi was immediately called, as were two independent expert butchers. The butchers examined the chickens, and for an absolute determination, tasted the outer skins for any residue of salt. The certifying rabbi summoned Shevach’s owner who arrived shortly thereafter seemingly unconcerned. When confronted with the non-kosher chickens, he claimed that they were old stock he purchased from Kiryas Yoel a while back. When the dates on the boxes showed the purchase was recent, long after Kiryas Yoel ceased shipping to him, he unconvincingly claimed they were off-the-books from Kiryas Yoel – a pure fiction. He then claimed that the chickens were kosher but without labels because he purchased them on the black or off markets, neither of which exists.

Failing to come up with any reasonable explanation, he admitted that the chickens came from a non-kosher source but that was because the kosher meat producers refused to send him merchandise. He claimed that he had falsified kosher offerings only for the past few days. Everyone present sadly realized that a scandal of major proportions was unfolding in front of them. Initially, the certifying rabbi accepted that the non-kosher substitutions had taken place only for a few days. However, he later agreed with the general assumption that the deceptions had been ongoing for years.

Thursday morning, Hatzlacha Supermarket opened and its owners were shocked to see that Shevach Meats was open for business, with merchandise on its racks, as though the previous night’s unmasking never happened. Hatzlacha quickly programmed their computers to refuse for sale any product from Shevach. The certifying rabbi posted a sign acknowledging that meats purchased in the previous two days must be considered non-kosher. Because of the ensuing turmoil, Shevach closed his facilities and left.

That Thursday evening, shocked rabbis of Monsey gathered to discuss the matter. The certifying rabbi and the synagogue rabbi knowing Shevach’s owner on a personal level, still felt that the kosher deceptions had to be very limited. Other rabbis screamed that if Shevach’s presumption of trust was compromised, then that compromise was retroactive to the very first day he began doing business almost 11 years ago. In particular, Rabbi Menachem Meir Weissmandl, Monsey Nitra Rav, maintained that everyone who had purchased or used meats from Shevach must now kasher (kosher through proper methods) their pots, pans, tableware, and flatware. Rabbi Weissmandl issued a public letter to that effect on Friday morning.

The consternation amongst Monsey residents was overwhelming. Feelings of shock and outrage enveloped the community. The thousands and thousands of Jews of Monsey and environs were thrown into an uproar. Monroe residents quickly realized that the Kiryas Yoel meats that they were purchasing from Shevach at reduced prices were treif (non-kosher). Large families that thought they were saving money now had to contemplate what had to be kashered and how. Shuls in Monsey quickly set up facilities for kashering pots, pans, and flatware. All rabbis in Monsey were consulted by their individual congregants and each particular item’s usage had to be reviewed in deciding if and how the item could be kashered.

On Tuesday evening, September 5, a proclamation was issued. Twenty-eight rabbis were its signatories. They were (in Hebrew alphabetical order): Rabbi Mordechai Chaim Auerbach, Beis Midrash Shaarei Tefilah; Rabbi Yosef Yisroel Eizenberger, Skverer Dayan; Rabbi Eliezer Chaim Blum, Kasho Rebbe; Rabbi Don Blumberg, Beis Midrash Ohel Yaakov; Rabbi Shlomo Mordechai Breslauer, Khal Beis Tefilah; Rabbi Moshe Green, Yeshiva of Monsey; Rabbi Moshe Diamond, Khal Zichron Be’er; Rabbi Avrohom Yaakov Horowitz, Khal Dzikov Meletz; Rabbi Chaim Yehoshua Halberstam, Monsey Satmar Rav; Rabbi Yisroel Hager, Monsey Vishnitzer Rav; Rabbi Ben Zion Wosner, Beth Din Shevet Levi; Rabbi Menachem Meir Weissmandl, Monsey Nitra Rav; Rabbi Betzalel Tovia Wattenstein, Belzer Dayan; Rabbi Shraga Feivel Zimmerman, Khal Bnei Ashkenaz; Rabbi Yisroel Meir Teitelbaum, Khal Ateres Rosh; Rabbi Yosef Templer, Khal Derech Emes; Rabbi Avrohom Chaim Feifer, Kehilas Beis Avrohom; Rabbi Menachem Fisher, Vienner Dayan; Rabbi Shlomo Ben Zion Kokus, Khal Zichron Mordechai; Rabbi Zvi Hersh Rabinowitz, Monsey Bobover Rav; Rabbi Moshe Rosner, Monsey Pupa Rav; Rabbi Chaim Yehuda Leibish Rottenberg, Khal Netzach Yisroel Foreshay; Rabbi Dovid Shmuel Riviat, Beis Midrash South Monsey; Rabbi Chaim Shabbos, Khal Knesset Yisroel; Rabbi Yechiel Steinmetz, Monsey Rav; Rabbi Chaim Shraga Feivel Shneibalg, Khal Avreichim; amd Rabbi Meshulem Noson Spiegal, Khal Tefilah LeMoshe.

The proclamation had since received additional signatures. In addition, the certifying rabbi has retracted his first letter, expanding the time of purchase of meat to be considered as non-kosher to “years.” The synagogue rabbi, finding no remorse on part of Shevach’s owner, banished him from his shul. All Shevach’s facilities at Hatzlacha have since been dissembled. Hatzlacha has recalled all Shevach’s meats sold there and are giving, at their own expense, a full refund. No meat sales will be made at Hatzlacha for the immediate future.

Many kashering stations have been set up at shuls in Monsey. The largest kashering operation is at Hatzlacha. Rabbi Eliezer Yichezkel Landau of Beis Midrash Edeleny and Rabbi Yosef Ber Einhorn of the Vishnitzer Beis Midrash are overseeing public kashering at Hatzlacha. The Kiryas Yoel community has delegated several of its rabbis and kollel members to be at Monsey’s kashering stations to answer any questions and to assist in the sometimes complicated procedures. Monsey’s volunteer Chaverim organization is controlling traffic and parking at the stations.

The Skverer community is providing all kashering stations with fire resistant gloves as well as fire resistant boots. The Glauber brothers, at Glauber’s Bakeries, are providing light refreshments. Glauber’s is also providing facilities for those needing to “burn” pots and pans. The many kashering stations have posted signs of their hours of operation. However, almost every kashering station is crowded, running late, and extending into late nights.

As we go to press, the OU and the Hisachdus Horabbonim, both of which had no part in the Shevach affair, are individually calling emergency meetings to revise procedures so that such a recurrence should never happen again. Rumors abound as to civil law suits as well as civil and criminal investigations, some that may overlap into other areas of the kosher food industry. Regardless, all rumors, insinuations, etc., must be discounted, and ignored, in anticipation of official findings.

Questionable Find

On Monday morning, September 11, an abandoned suitcase was found outside Hatzlacha. The Rockland County bomb squad is treating the suitcase with the utmost suspicion. “They X-rayed the suitcase and determined it was not a danger,” Spring Valley police Sgt. Thomas Martin said. “It was some socks and a metal pill box.” It was unclear how much further detectives might investigate the case.

The scare started when an owner of the Hatzlacha Grocery on Maple Avenue noticed the abandoned suitcase on the sidewalk and called police. With that kosher-meat scandal in the air, the owner did the right thing by calling police, Sgt. Martin said. “I know that people are upset about the non-kosher meats, but what connection there is to that, I don’t know,” he said. “We have it here,” Martin said of the suitcase. “If no one shows up for it, we will probably throw it away.”

Fasting

On a related note, Hatzolah issued a statement regarding those who expressed a desire to fast for their unknowingly having consumed treifos that they consult with their rav.

27

 Sep 19, 2006 at 01:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Subject: CHODOSH

Had we been more machmir in chodosh, that according to many - if not most - Rishonim every kezayis is osur min hatorah, HKB"H would've saved us from this terrible tragedy.

All of you are maskim that it's a chumrah that it's time has come.

28

 Sep 19, 2006 at 01:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Re CHODOSH

Anyone who learn thru the subject, knows that's a lot more then merely a CHUMRA...

Yes there were poskim in the past who were meikil mainly because it was a matzav of PIKUACH NEFESH!

Please after learning what the poskim have to say, get to know the on-the-ground facts. You'll be surprised that many of the old heteirim are no longer valid.

29

 Sep 19, 2006 at 12:37 AM emes Says:

anon 11:28

couldn't agree more,

LOOK at the timing on the response of eruv anon" "7:11" goan's time was "6.35", anon wrote another comment on "6.46" which tells us why he's so mixed up; how on earth possible could he have looked up, all those t'shuvas - understood- and responded,- typed, all in less than a half hour (assuming he saw goan's respond rite-away ?)
he's just talking out of his... phoneyes

I'm writing in regards to what R' Segal wrote to the m'harsham he clearly writes (looked it up) ONLY about the STREETS of THE "EAST-SIDE" - NOT Manhattan "as a whole", which was known to have much more than 600,000! (as pointed out by goan)

All can be looked up on ;
www.Hebrewbooks.org
{browse to author letter S - seigel - sefer 'eruv vehotzah' pg. 19 parg. 2}

30

 Sep 18, 2006 at 11:28 PM Anonymous Says:

TO GAON;

Your answer was very well true to the point, well detailed (looked some up) DO NOT bother replying to anon. 7:11, 6:46 (both, 'obviously' the same guy)!!

Who is full of hate, venomous, mendacious... (mevazeh true talmudei chachamim known and mekubel through-out the torah world - starts out "a leaflet was dist."... turns out HE himself is the ... )

didn't even answer on most points!
and what he DID answer; did not apply to the point made.


Didn't find ANYTHING else to blame BUT the eruv in BP on what actually happend in monsey!

(and through someone who was actually against the eiruv!)

( anon.) GO GET A LIFE!!

31

 Sep 18, 2006 at 07:21 PM gaon Says:

A error in the above addressee: its to anon. 2:38 (not 3.33)

32

 Sep 18, 2006 at 07:11 PM Anonymous Says:

what a goan that is mixing up the meshna brurah that says MAYBE we pasken like reb elozer when there is NO 600,000 and concludes that it is still a greosa d'chatos.
The marsham writes manhattan does not have 600,000.
Rav shulcon orech from the tanya in hilchos tchumin holds a bridge is a reshus harabim so there is PIRZOES of 16 amos with no DALSIS.
The PRI MIGODIM, KAF HACHAYIM state that the RAMAH holds that DALSIS is M'DIORAYSO and we paskin OSEY RABIM U'MVATOL MCHITZA. we pasken like the RAMAH. all your tsuvahs you are quoting is when there is THREE mechizos SHLAIMOS. so don't misquote. for your info menashe klein (finkel's sisters uncle "what a mechutin") wrote in a tsuvah vol 4 tsuvah 45 that rov achronim hold ny is a reshus harabim.

33

 Sep 18, 2006 at 06:46 PM Anonymous Says:

gaon is right that the ra-bonim are reflection of the DOR this happens when the BELZIES and the layman want to carry on SHABOS. Orthodox jews don't carry and would not carry. GAON did you look up the MAHARSHAM that phoney R' Segal wrote that manhattan does not have 600,000 people. he was also from the ra-bonim.
goan don't you know that DOSON V'AVIROM wore the same WHITE BEKESHE like cheskel Roth(1800) Dial-A-Heter. but when he was dayan in satmar he had some siyata dismaya or reflection of his congregants he wrote in his sefer vol 3 tsuva 16 that it is right to claim that boro park is a reshus harabim.

34

 Sep 18, 2006 at 06:34 PM gaon replies : Says:

ANON 3:33 EIRUV;

1) You did't read properly,

(the same way you did't read the m'harsham properly as the following)

1] I wrote there are "GATES" - 'MECHITZOS' surrounding the water (which incl. sea walls) I ADDED water for a 'senif' tziruf heter. 2] I don't know which SHU"A H'RAV you are reffering to; about the water and bridges being a reshus h'rabim.

I see u need clarification on this topic:

There are 2 sheilos involved in the case of 'mechitzos h'mayim';

1]if it creates a 'reshus h'yachid' gemurah, meaningly; that you are allowed to carry even without anything - 'you don't need a tzuras h'pesach, etc.

2]If it creates at least a 'karmulis' (reshus hayachid mh't -which a tzuras h'pesach will surely permit carrying)

On that- Tosfas holds it is still a reshus h'rabim. BUT all achronim agree that we DON"T pasken like this tosfas (see Mishnah B'rurah shar tzion ch. 363;93, Chei Adam, yavet'z ch 7 , Nodeh B'yehudah in sh"ut Tshuvah M'ahava, and so writes the Divrei Malkiel of Lomza : "the fact that water is a mechitzah, is acclamed so, by all poskim achronim, and so is the MINHAG in alot of cities.... etc." And so rules the above m'harsham there, and in his sefer DAAS TORAH ch 363, and so was the CHADUSHEI H'RIM 'noheig l'maseh' in the city WARSAW (see shu"t Hari"m ch 4, Moiras Nosson of warsaw)

And so ruled RAV CHAIM OZER of Vilna on Paris; see Acheiezer vol 4.
and the list goes on n' on, so next time learn a little more than JUST Tosfas before u come to ...

3] The same goes about the 'bridges' u did not comprehend the case of the shu"a h'rav altogether (see sh"ut Beis Shlomo) *plus* you mixed up with the case of HETER TILTUL (case #1) - with reshus hayachid min hatorah meaningly; that if u erect a tzuras h'pesach there is no 'sheilah' at all, ALL sheilos in the poskim about BRIDGES were only in a case - with no 'tzuras h'pesach' at all, where they used m'chitzos h'mayim l'hatir for CARRIYING (which is a sheileh d'rabonon if it's considerd a 'pirtzah' - see sh"ut Ch'sam Sofer ch. 89 nodeh B'yehudah; 42, sh'ut Nefesh Chei, Divrei Malkiel ...)

So on the case - such as ours - where besides the water there is a tzuras h'pesach, n' who is even asking where we have GATES **mechhitzos byedai adom** too....

2) about the 600,000 u say R' Segal claimed ...

Again u didn't read properly at all ! ALL He wrote was that the STREETS of the EAST-SIDE of Manhattan does not have 600,000 - NOT that "manhattan"... see his sefer 'eruv v'hatzah',
THIS that Manhattan itself -'as a city' had more than 600,000 - that was a known fact EVERYBODY knew - "as of the greatest populated city in the world!!" and what do u take the marsham n the rest RAB. for such 'BOTLANIM'!!??

What we DO see clearly from their position is that 600,000 within the city itself Is NOT considerd r'shus h'rabim, u need 600,000 on the STREET too!

By the way - see what RAV SEGAL wrote about it in his sefer SHU"T Oznei yehoshua ch. 18, (before the eruv) he clearly writes that Manh. has more than 600,000, the Question was mainly about 'BROADWAY' which had through out 600,000 passerby (see sh'ut Tirosh V'yitzhor of warsaw)

3) About the M'HARSHAM backing out, Again u did not get the facts straight, his back out is cause some so-called rabbonim claimed that the FACTS are not the way RAV Seagel claimes it is, but NOT on the P'SAK, meaningly; that if so the facts ARE like he claims, of course he's backing it, on that he couldn't decide .

by the way - the facts were as he acclaimed - proof: as long as he was alive no-one said anything AT ALL - as the dates of the tshuvas claim!! vd"l

4) Talking about "PHONEY'S" THE JOKE IS ON YOU!! :

It so happens to be, that M. FINKEL didn't want an "eid" at his childs chupah - someone who uses the EIRUV !!!!!

35

 Sep 18, 2006 at 04:16 PM Anonymous Says:

when did m finkel wife and kids leave this guy??

36

 Sep 18, 2006 at 02:40 PM GAON Says:

anon 12:54 'OUR RABBIS'

Don't complain, they R only a "REFLECTION" of our 'DOR' (society)!!

In a society that EVERTHING is the - 'BEN FRANKLIN' what do u expect of their leaders ?!

So say our holy s'forem "DOR DOR- V'DORSHOV"..... The leaders u get - is for what YOU asked for !!

WAKE UP - START by changing with-in yourself's !!!

Not - blame the leaders! which are placed by your own doings.

Start by praying b'kavanah;
V'HOISHIVAH SHOFTEINU K'VERISHOINA.

AMEN.

37

 Sep 18, 2006 at 02:38 PM Anonymous Says:

to so called goan 3:33
you don't know that water is not a mechitzha (tosfos eruvin 22) the whole world is surrounded with water. what do you do with the bridges that are a reshus harabim as the RAV S"O paskens. the MAHARSHAM clearly wrote a letter (printed in all newspapers now & then) (printed id Kerem Byavne, yarchon from Y. U., yetzias hashabos) that he backing off the eruv of manhatan. By the way why aren't you quoting the mahrsham in the same tsuvah that Segal told him that manhattan does NOT have 600,000 people. Segal was a phoney like Finkel, Katz, Menashe Klein AND BELZIES

38

 Sep 18, 2006 at 12:54 PM Anonymous Says:

i think we should declare a fast again for our RABBONIM

DO OU KNOW WHY WE SAY THE BROCHA AL HATZADIKIM VAL HACHASIDIM VAL ZIKNEI AMCHA

REALLY THEY SHOULD BE BE MISPALLEL FOR US BUT UNFORTUNATELY IN THIS GENERATION WE NEED TO SAY TO HASHEM

THESE RABBIS YOU GAVE US THAT GAVE AHECHSHER TO A MAN THAT SOLD TRIEF THESE RABBIS THAT SAY THERE HOLY EVEN AFTER STEALING MILLIONS ( ORBACH )

PLEASE REBONEI SHEL OLAM WE DAVEN TO YOU FOR THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FIT FOR THEIR JOBS

39

 Sep 18, 2006 at 10:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Is his rich sister in BP gonna help him (MF)?

40

 Sep 18, 2006 at 09:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Anon 9:12
Who said she knew. I understand she is a victim just like everyone else.
He brought the same food home he sold everybody else.

41

 Sep 18, 2006 at 09:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Anon 11:42

Ugh! Gross!

She clapped him on, knew all along. Now she walks?

What she thinks we Monsey people will pay for her?

Ugh! She should go to Cherem too.

42

 Sep 18, 2006 at 03:33 AM gaon Says:

TO tsuva 2:11

Another am haarotz in town; that does not know that 3 MECHITZOS creates a "reshus h'yachid" (which brooklyn has + water ; LOOK ON YOUR MAP, wherever there is water u have gates)

So S... STOP DREIN A KUPP about 'reshus h'rabim'!!!

2) BY THE WAY - about R' Y. Segal u mentioned. YES he did make a eruv in MANHATAN,

BUT for your knowledge do u know that it DID have the haskamah of the gadolai hador incl. the -M'HARSHAM, (see sh"ut m'harsham vol 8) HAREI B'SAMIM (see vol 5) of Stanislov zt"l, h'rav mpramshlaua... (even though every body knew about Manhatan as a whole, had one of the largest populations - close to 2,000,000)

3) And about the nevailus u acclaim he was maichel is also JUST as true as brooklyn is a 'reshus h'rabim' - get your facts of history straight, before u bring n' drag into this rabonnim that are not alive!!!

YES there was some kind of friction between the 2 - rav yakov yosef and rav Segal but that started 'cause when rav y.y. arrived he (R' Segal)was already acclamed RAV by over 25 POLISH'e' KEHILLOS, and those kehillos did not want to accept the NEW LITVISHE RAV.... so they had their own shochtim etc...

BUT TO NO EXTEND was there ever macholus neveilus involved through the rav S., yes there were shochtim selling neveilus but that had little or ANYTHING to do with RAV Seagel!!!

P.S FOR MECHILLAH; his kever is in the same cemetery as rav yakov yosef's zt"l (in Queens).

43

 Sep 17, 2006 at 11:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Nebech moshe finkel,his Wife and kids left him...

Why he did it ??? Why ???

What about Cherem? moshe finkel must be punished ! I don't understand possition of Rabbanim!
They are too quiet!Or is something wrong with me...

44

 Sep 17, 2006 at 11:29 PM Anonymous Says:

To 2:14; your yingaleh sounds every bit the genious you are!

Rabbi Shain was brilliant on Zev Brenner last night. He spared no details and had no qualms whatsoever about naming those involved and those who should have been involved (Moetzes included) in this scandal.

45

 Sep 17, 2006 at 04:14 PM bk5454 Says:

Anonymous said...
every kzayis nevelu becomes like you have eaten a kzayis korben pesach in yerushulayim. and the rabbi finished saying that a tchuvas horabim is like a "tchuva mehave" (Yismach Moshe Zts"l)". look the ful text in "Droshes Chasam Sofer daf yid tes"

so i wonder if this is the case it means that MF was maachil korben pesach to us is he going to get so much gan eden

46

 Sep 17, 2006 at 02:14 PM Anonymous Says:

my yingele came home from chaydir and says that lipa sing goyase nigunim because he ate the nivelas of shevach and his neshoma is tomay

47

 Sep 17, 2006 at 02:11 PM tsuva Says:

A leaflet was distributed in boro park explaining that the consumers are in fault because when great rabbis from this generation and ALL the rabonim from the previos generation told us you can not make an eruv and it is CHILLUL SHABOS but belzies are REPACKING it as selling it shuc string is differrent they are alot worse.
brooklyn is a reshus harabim and you need DALSIS (gates with NO oppenings more than ten amos aprox. 18 feet). but belzies are repacking with different label. HISTORY repeates itself the first eruv maker in new york R. yehoshua segel was machel nivailos that Reb yakov yosef assered.
belzies were machil nivelos from CHAIMOVITZ we all still remember.
BELZIES GREAT.

48

 Sep 17, 2006 at 01:33 PM O.Gevald Says:

Just wondering.
Is this fellow also fasting today???

49

 Sep 17, 2006 at 12:53 PM Anonymous Says:

I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS PIG SR"Y IS STILL GOING AROUND MONSEY FREE???????

50

 Sep 17, 2006 at 12:41 PM O.Gevald Says:

I join my fellow bretheren in Taanis today.
May HKB"H accept this Taanis as a Kapparoh for any unintentional Maacholos Assuros we may have eaten.

51

 Sep 17, 2006 at 12:06 PM machmir Says:

TO GAON 11.46

Thanks for mareh mekomes (info)
on CHADASH, after reading the 'Mishkenos Yakov' it sure is fascinating how out of hand and over board they take something that's clearly only a CHUMRAH - compare it to treif!

Something is sure wrong with these guys!

agav - the sefer Minhag Yisrael Torah brings from the DIVREI CHAIM of TZANS that he was makpid NOT to be makpid on chodosh,

Reason - not be 'moitze-laaz' on all doros that weren't makpid (even though he was a big machmir).

Maybe he wasn't as 'yeshivish' as these guys ??!!

52

 Sep 17, 2006 at 09:00 AM Anonymous Says:

Don't forget to fast today.
A Git Yuhr!

53

 Sep 17, 2006 at 02:47 AM mark levin Says:

someone wanted to know were i was here...

i am staying out of this. you have all said too much lushon hura already. y'all talk like you are the biggest lomdim and rabunim around but in the meantime you are a bunch of am haratzim and rodfim who dont deserve to post on the net.

and btw, netzach and goldberg were cleared BH of any chashash against them. seems like records and receipts were looked over only to BH find nothing.

54

 Sep 17, 2006 at 02:15 AM Anonymous Says:

To Anon 12:53 AM

Please don't categorize all Rabbonim together- there are very ethical, sincere and fine Rabbonim worthy of being role models, just as there are sincere, fine judges, lawyers and other professionals- although they usually don't end up as famous as the others.

What we have to do is search for those like Rav Pam A"H. I doubt anyone has a single factual negative word about Rav Pam. The Rav Pam types are there! We can judge who the great ones are by the style in which they live (not ostentatious) and the way they behave (with modesty- not looking for Kavod or glory of any kind), just looking to be Oved Hashem.

55

 Sep 17, 2006 at 12:53 AM Anonymous Says:

This horrible scandal was inevitable.Our corrupt rabbis have been kissing the asses of all kinds of "frum"criminals and evil doers for decades.
Taking their money,putting their names on buildings and even in engaging in illegal action themselves.

56

 Sep 17, 2006 at 12:20 AM Anonymous Says:

I am about to reveal my identity. I am many of the anons posted.

OK, here we go.

My first name is.

OH, on second thought, I will wait til 2000 posts before revealing my full name.

Hint: FIrst name begins with letter 'B'.

Lots of you will be surprised.

Stay tuned.

57

 Sep 16, 2006 at 11:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Copy and Save the entire 1026 comments from this post, just as a reminder for when the story gets forgotten or pushed under the rug.

58

 Sep 16, 2006 at 10:58 PM Anonymous Says:

all the real kosher jews already moved out of monsey and flatbush.

they moved to the five towns. the place where real kosher yidden live.

monsey, flatbush, boro park, lakewood and all the rest will go off the derech.

but the five towns, because they eat only kosher and have mashgichim timidi, they will bring about meshiach and make klal yisroel do teshuva.

59

 Sep 16, 2006 at 09:48 PM Anonymous Says:

If we did not eat meat or chicken for 2 weeks ( except shabbos & yom tov. there would be changes in the way jashgachas work.
For hasgachos to make money we have to eat their products.

I have not seen one positive tikun to the hasgacha biz in 2 weeks. My guess is that in 6 months this will be swept so far under the rug we will never hear about it again

60

 Sep 15, 2006 at 05:12 PM Anonymous Says:

TIME FOR SLICHOS.......

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61

 Sep 15, 2006 at 04:14 PM Anonymous Says:

I had heard that there is a disproportinate amount of kids going off the derech in monsey - is this true? someone told me in his class - 26 out of 60 kids went off the derech - this school supposingly got their meat from shevach - is this true? has anyone else heard of this - can someone comment please ? this is shocking if yes

62

 Sep 15, 2006 at 04:14 PM Shiduchim Crisis Says:

Who said that you could Kasher meat with Pottasium Chloride, just because it has a similar taste to sodium chloride?
I have never heard of that, & I would like to know who kashers that way, (& if it is availablre in rock salt form [koshering salt])so that I could avoid using them if possible, until a rabinical clarification comes out explaining why it is good, and how it fits in to the mesorah.
I believe it is all cod's wallap, no body kashers that way, it is just like the Perdue chickens he was selling.

63

 Sep 15, 2006 at 03:26 PM Anonymous Says:

If you kosher meat with low sodium salt don't you have to use more of it. Where can I get low sodium kosher salt? My Monsey grocer threw me out of his store when I cornered him by the meat counter and asked!

64

 Sep 15, 2006 at 03:24 PM Anonymous Says:

IN HONOR OF MF AT THE UPCOMING KIDDUSH GIVEN BY THE PROVISIONS DISTRIBUTER THE KUGELS AND CHOLENT WILL BE MADE WITH LOW SODIUM SALT. PARVE OF COURSE BECAUSE WE NO LONGER KNOW WHO TO TRUST FOR MEAT. ALSO EXPECT LOW ALCOHOL WHISKEY

65

 Sep 15, 2006 at 02:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Low Sodium Salt Substitutes
The great thing about a low-sodium salt substitute, aside from the fact that it is measurably radioactive, is that people put it on their food! Not to worry – consuming a salt substitute doesn’t increase your radiation exposure.
Salt substitutes are radioactive because they contain potassium chloride, and all potassium contains the radioactive beta-gamma emitter potassium-40.
Salt substitutes vary in their composition, but their main ingredient is always potassium chloride. For example, the listed contents of the Nu-Salt are: potassium chloride, cream of tartar, drier and natural flavor derived from yeast. Contains less than 20 mg of sodium per 100 grams. The contents of the NoSalt are: potassium chloride, potassium bitartrate, adipic acid, mineral oil, fumaric acid and silicon dioxide. The ingredients of another salt substitute, not shown here, are: potassium chloride, L-glutamic acid, mono-potassium glutamate, tri-calcium phosphate and 0.01%potassium iodide.
A salt substitute does not taste exactly like sodium chloride, but it is similar enough, and it contains less or none of the sodium that some people are trying to avoid.
To measure the activity of a low sodium salt, pour some onto a piece of paper (the paper makes it easier to get the salt back into the container). The idea is to detect the K-40 beta particles rather than the gamma rays, and getting the salt out of the container helps in this regard. Be sure to use plenty of “salt,” e.g., 5-10 grams. Perhaps the best readily available detector to use is a thin window Geiger Mueller detector (e.g., a pancake GM). A detector with an audio output that is nice and loud makes for a better demonstration. Before you make the actual measurement, listen to the background for a while. Then, when the suspense is just about to become unbearable, quickly move the probe onto the surface of the salt. If the gods are smiling, the count rate should more than double. Finally, don’t forget to clean the probe after the demonstration since residual salt substitute will increase the background.
Copyright 1999, Oak Ridge Associated Universities

66

 Sep 15, 2006 at 02:46 PM KIDDUSH Says:

HOROWITZ; 'rav h'machshir'

I RECOMMEND.....

"YARMOR REBBE" !!!! (R' Y. Miller)

But on the other hand i still think....

RAV BRESL.!!

67

 Sep 15, 2006 at 02:36 PM Shiduchim Crisis Says:

Salt is sodium chloride, if it has so called low sodium it is not salt,but chlorine.
I couldn't find the option to kasher meat/ chicken with chlorine in Shulchan Oruch.
Maybe someone could enlighten me the meaning of low sodium salt. If people are saying the truth, maybe the old saying "Frum Is A Gallach A yid Darf Zein Klug "applies here. This is the punishment for being naive, had you been smarter you may have broken the story a lot earlier, and saved many from eating tarfus.

68

 Sep 15, 2006 at 02:35 PM Shlomo Horowitz Says:

I have a question to ask, which Rav Hamachshir should I take for the Cong. VOS IZ NEIAS Kiddish? should it be a Chassidisher? or a Litvak? Hat or Shtreimel? Bekishe or Frock? Hey guys help me out here......

69

 Sep 15, 2006 at 02:17 PM Anonymous Says:

WHEN AND WHERE IS SHLOMO HOROWITZ'S MEGA KIDDUSH? SINGLE MALT, CHOLUNT, 3 KINDS OF KIGGLE, KISHE - WHAT ELSE CAN WE EXPECT?

I'D RATHER EAT AS HIS KIDDUSH THAN MF'S

70

 Sep 15, 2006 at 01:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Chassidim- Litvaks and Sefardim- we're all in this pressure cooker together- we all have to figure out how we can discourage long kollel dependence on parents- or we'll all get shechted by it together R"L!

There should be pride in working and being independent.

71

 Sep 15, 2006 at 01:34 PM gaon Says:

11:46
you didn't read properly:

CHALKOT "YAAKOV" - RAV BREISH (Switz.) not 'YOAV' (kinsk)


------------------

BY the way - about "chodosh-treifa" the 'chalkos yoav' u mentiond (11.51)-

That's not enough - for these 'chodosh m'orerim' -, the 'chalkos yoav' was still - a CHASID .

Mention - the 'MISHKNOS YAAKOV'
a big time 'Litvak' the greatest 'talmid muvhak' of R' CHAIM VLOZHIN ZT"L that holds that chodosh chu"l is mutar; and QUOTES so - b'shem his rebbe "R' CHAIM M'VOLOZIN" - THAT holds CHODOSH CHU"L IS MUTAR!! (see pg. 261-262)!!

So I still don't know where they came up with these extreme
CHODOSH-TREIFA position!?,

They are not 'litvishe'? n' for sure not chasidim?
no mesorah??!

Maybe SEFARDIM????!!!!



Have a KOSHER'e SHABBOS!

72

 Sep 15, 2006 at 12:22 PM Anonymous Says:

It's amazing how all you litvaks are so concerened not to be chas veshalom mevaze a MACHIL TARFOS all the upcoming shabbos teshuva droshos will be busy with the Chofetz Chaim ZT"L which if he would be here now he would be very upset with the RA-BONIM using him to cover one of their own. Reminds me of doctors who will always cover for another doctor who did wrong because one day he himself may be accused of wrongdoing and will need another doctor to whitewash him. NO LEADERSHIP>>>we need help

73

 Sep 15, 2006 at 11:54 AM Anonymous Says:

MF is selling KAPOROS (salted) right after R"H !!

any one interested???

74

 Sep 15, 2006 at 11:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Agav, for those who compare Chadash to Trief,
Look in Chalkos Yoev, Ch YOD Siman 33,who holds Chadash is not in Chu"l.

75

 Sep 15, 2006 at 11:47 AM KIDDUSH Says:

A KIDDUSH!!!??? on the blog!!

ONLY with "R' BRASLAUER'S HECHSER"!!!!!!!!

76

 Sep 15, 2006 at 11:46 AM Anonymous Says:

To Gaon, Are you sure the Sefer is Chalkos Yoev,
I could not find the T'shuva.

77

 Sep 15, 2006 at 11:40 AM gaon Says:

10:59 'history'

True!

And the so called 'Krakow story' neither ever happened as I've written before.

It was fabricated by a few 'maskilim'!!

Any other m'kor (reliable source)??

Anyone???

78

 Sep 15, 2006 at 11:25 AM Anonymous Says:

mf is going to kollel now he is looking for a chavrusa

79

 Sep 15, 2006 at 11:20 AM GAON Says:

TO 8:23 'MF's GRANDFATHER'

1) THE SOURCE: as mentiond - the above sefer 'Chalkat yaakov' (HR' BREISH ZT"L) spells the name clearly "R' avrohom".... which IS his gf

2) The moral of my mentiong it is:

EVERYONE in klal is aghast HOW IN THE WORLD those it come to a shomer... to be machshil klal yisrael...
there is 'some' light shed in the above info 'it was in the genes'

KLALAS CHOCHOM AF AL T'NEI....
(the words of the Tarnipoli rav the 'chavtzelas hashron' even it wasn't chal on r' A. himself, it surely efected his grandson !!

By the way - (part of it) was shown to me by a Rav .

80

 Sep 15, 2006 at 11:10 AM Anonymous Says:

Nassau,
I understand your dilemma (I feel your pain) the first thing you should have done early last week was to get on vos iz neias and dispute the story.
Damage control is top priority.
Giving a kiddush is a great idea (Where will this kiddush take place.)but I don't think it will do the trick. What you should do is have your rav machsher and the investigating rabonim put out a statement to the effect that you had noting with this story just like ally processing did.

81

 Sep 15, 2006 at 10:59 AM Anonymous Says:

No one in history ever sold tarfus while giving the blatt and leinig the Torah Yomim Noraim.

Can't imagine what G-d has in store for him.

82

 Sep 15, 2006 at 10:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Where is MF now? Very simple- he's hiding out and trying to figure out how he can continue supporting his kollel kids in style, as they desire these days.

MAYBE IT'S TIME TO CHECK THE HEARTS AND BRAINS OF THOSE WHO ARE SITTING SILENTLY WHILE WE SHECHT OURSELVES WITH SUPPORT ISSUES, INSTEAD OF ONLY CHECKING THE CHICKEN AND BEEF BODY PARTS!

83

 Sep 15, 2006 at 10:00 AM Anonymous Says:

Does any boddy know were this prep mf is now?

84

 Sep 15, 2006 at 09:30 AM Anonymous Says:

the best newspaper coverage of this topic is the yiddish paper, der blatt.

85

 Sep 15, 2006 at 08:23 AM Anonymous Says:

to goan
Where did you get the info about his grandfather?
Do you have a reliable source for it?
If you want to make the public aware about MF's wrongdoings to prevent any more unfortunate situations then ok, but to speak badly about a man thats not alive is just pushing it.

86

 Sep 15, 2006 at 08:17 AM Anonymous Says:

999 comments posted on the Finkle/Monsey meat situation. The 1000th post gets a free case of low sodium chicken.

87

 Sep 15, 2006 at 04:44 AM Anonymous Says:

every kzayis nevelu becomes like you have eaten a kzayis korben pesach in yerushulayim. and the rabbi finished saying that a tchuvas horabim is like a "tchuva mehave" (Yismach Moshe Zts"l)". look the ful text in "Droshes Chasam Sofer daf yid tes"

88

 Sep 15, 2006 at 04:37 AM Anonymous Says:

I feel I should share with you what I heard that the Satmar Rabbi Shlita Said last shabbas
It was quite relaxing
He said what the “Chasam Sofer” Says in the “Droshes”, that if you ate chas vsholem nevelus and you do “Tshuva Mehava” your sin becomes a mitzva
And here is the loshon from the “Chasam Sofer” look in the next blog

89

 Sep 15, 2006 at 02:19 AM GOAN Says:

MF's yichus

His 'zeidah'(mother's father) was already a shaleh of 'machel tarfus' as the following:

There was a kind of procedre of shchitah that some modern (german) r'banim came up with (70 yrs ago -they put the animal to sleep (through astg.shot) before shchitah)
Which was acclamed ASER UK'NEVAILEH by all the rabonim then (R' Caim ozer,brisker rav,Dvar avraham m'Kovno etc.)

And guess who didn't listen.....

YES! someone a shochet named R'Avrhom Solitzky who was involved in the whole esek m'tchileh.

All this you can look it up - SH'UT Chelkas Yaakov (hr' breish zl) yo'd ch. 1

MORE to that:

In sh"ut Chvatzelas Hashron (vol 2 ch. 25) adds on to the above sheileh: "I'm afraid that through this whole esek the end will be that they (the shochtim involved)will be ch'v meichel n'veilus utreifus mamesh"

It turns out that the above mentioned shochet r' avraham is....

YES!! M FINKEL'S ZEIDA!!!

HAFLEH V'PELEH!!!

90

 Sep 15, 2006 at 01:52 AM Anonymous Says:

J U S T - - W O N D E R I N G ????
Anon 11:35 wrote:
* * * ....freezer that mf had other meat in there that he sold to the "goishe market"...

HU????

I don't get it!!??!!

He has a freezer full of treifa meat and TELLS us that he sells this to "GIOSHA MARKET"!!!(can he provide a list of his 'goyisha customers'???)

Wow! Why in the world should we not all believe him??? Isn't he a tzaddik after all?? He does the shofar blowing pretty well, doesn't he??

...and by the way, where did he get the chickens from that he sold as KJ when he didn't buy from them anymore?
...and that he sold much more than he bought????
...and that most of his customers said it wasn't salted???? (interesting, KJ used low sodium only on the chiks he sold to MF)

91

 Sep 15, 2006 at 01:42 AM Anonymous Says:

News
Faithful turn to KJ butcher after Rockland fake kosher scare
Inspectors pull cases of suspect chicken from shelves in Monsey


By Chris McKenna
September 14, 2006
Times Herald-Record
Dear reader: The grocery store where a butcher allegedly passed off non-kosher chicken as kosher is in Monsey. A headline in the print edition of today's Times Herald-Record incorrectly stated the butcher was from Kiryas Joel.
Kiryas Joel — The news has been roiling Orthodox Jewish circles for almost two weeks now — an astonishing scandal that made some wonder if the meat they were buying was truly kosher.

A Monsey butcher was accused of passing off nonkosher chicken as kosher, leading unsuspecting shoppers to commit a grave sin by ingesting meat that wasn't slaughtered and butchered in a manner dictated by ancient Jewish laws and tradition.

State inspectors yanked cases of suspect chicken from Hatzlocha Grocery and launched an investigation. Anguished customers purged their fridges and scoured their kitchens and cookware. Rabbis interrogated the butcher, Moshe Finkel, and issued stern edicts.

Thus far, the scandal has had little impact in Kiryas Joel, other than as a subject of horrified conversation. Few Kiryas Joel families bought meat at the Monsey store, although Finkel's goods are said to have made their way to Hasidic camps in the Catskills and to Monsey catering halls that some Kiryas Joel residents use.

One reverberation has been a surge of new customers at the Kiryas Joel Meat Market, which has been inundated with orders to deliver meat to Monsey homes.

"They call me. A lot of people have called me," said Cheskel Landau, the store manager. "People are very embarrassed."

CORRECTION: The grocery store where a butcher allegedly passed off non-kosher chicken as kosher is in Monsey. A headline in the Times Herald-Record today incorrectly stated the butcher was from Kiryas Joel.



He and an associate working yesterday at the storefront business in the Forest Road shopping center estimated that sales have jumped anywhere from 15 percent to 25 percent since the revelations about Finkel and his business, Shevach Meats, surfaced.

A supervisor at Kiryas Joel's chicken slaughterhouse helped expose the deception in Monsey by questioning how Finkel could still have Kiryas Joel poultry in his cases without having obtained any shipments in a couple of weeks.

The Kiryas Joel slaughterhouse, one of several suppliers that Finkel used, had cut off his supply because he hadn't paid his bills, community sources said.

The manager whose questions triggered the investigation declined to discuss the matter when approached yesterday at the slaughterhouse.

The state Department of Agriculture and Markets is still investigating the origins of the 15 chicken cases it confiscated, a spokeswoman said.



The department could fine Finkel as much as $1,000 for improperly labeling his products.



Is it kosher?
Kosher means "fit" in Hebrew and describes any foods fit for Jews to eat, based on rules first written in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and expanded many times over the years in other texts. For Jews who keep kosher, these dietary restrictions are an integral component of daily life and Jewish identity.

One well-known kosher mandate is that meat and dairy products cannot be mixed. Pork and shellfish are forbidden. Other guidelines dictate how animals should be slaughtered. A chicken, for instance, must be killed with a single razor slit and emptied of blood.

The strictest kosher rules are known as glatt kosher. Those who adhere to them look for the certification of a rabbi or kosher supervision agency when buying packaged food or dining at a restaurant.

92

 Sep 15, 2006 at 01:41 AM Anonymous Says:

Anon 11:35 writes:
---just heard that the whole story was a setup hatzlocha had a din tora with mf he wanted him out of the store because hatzlocha brother in law owns kirjas yoel meat they stopt selling to mf because of hatzlocha. green wanted his brother in law to open the butcher store in his place . so they went and broke open the freezer that mf had other meat in there that he sold to the goishe market and after they broke open the freezer they called the rabonim that how the whole story started ----

Then please explain why so many people returned treifa chicken to the store and to rabbonim that they bought weeks and monthe before green broke into the freezer????????????

Please explain how a bal machsher doesn't have a key to the freezer - ONLY the owner had??????????

Please explain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

93

 Sep 15, 2006 at 12:34 AM O.Gevald Says:

Hey "geshriggen", don't put words in my mouth.
Ich hub geshriggen Naase v'Nishmah. Nothing else.
Since then, generation after generation, we got used to "eat first, listen later". Get it?

Jokes aside, this is NOT the proper place for this blog, Shloma Shommes. Please put it back under the other heading.
Ich shem mich pushit.

94

 Sep 15, 2006 at 12:06 AM AND GESHRIGEN Says:

To O. GEVALD: you can't have the cake and eat it too...before you get your mouth watered up from the aroma of the food that Mr. Horowitz is preparing for the Kiddish at Cong. VOS IZ NEIAS you gotta help him out first!! I think that the Idea that some blogger suggested before to have us all bloggers issue a "KOL KORAH" is a good idea, so let's do it, O. GEVALD is the first signature and GESHRIGEN is second, who sign's next????

95

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:53 PM O. GEVALD Says:

Mr. Horowitz, that's a pledge.
Congregation Vos Iz Neias is happy to have you sponsor a nice hot kiddish and "Shale Shiddis" (you said you do "herrings, dairy" etc.)
Shloma Shommes is gonna give you whatever Aliya you want.
Talk about being gozer Taanis. I'm starting to fast now in anticipation of the big kiddish.

96

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:36 PM Anonymous Says:

whats the kiddish all about?

97

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:36 PM Anonymous Says:

where is CONG. VOS IZ NEIAS?
i just found out about this site VOS IZ NEIAS, and i was woundring what a shamos is doing here, but now you are saying there is also a cong. VOS IZ NEIAS.

where is that?

98

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:35 PM Anonymous Says:

just heard that the whole story was a setup hatzlocha had a din tora with mf he wanted him out of the store because hatzlocha brother in law owns kirjas yoel meat they stopt selling to mf because of hatzlocha. green wanted his brother in law to open the butcher store in his place . so they went and broke open the freezer that mf had other meat in there that he sold to the goishe market and after they broke open the freezer they called the rabonim that how the whole story started

99

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:28 PM GOAN Says:

STORY OF KRAKOW,

I just heard the m'kor of the story ....

A MASKIL!!! BOOK

besides of that - there is NO M'KOR AT ALL!!!

It never ever happend. (at least in the times of m'galeh amukos as i've written above.)

100

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:26 PM Anonymous Says:

SO WHATS GOING ON WITH MR. HOROWITZ'S KIDDISH FOR CONG. VOS IZ NEIAS?

101

 Sep 14, 2006 at 10:36 PM Anonymous Says:

If you noticed the lakewood comunity is not really involved in this scandal. They have much bigger problems to worry about. A Menuval who is "learning" in lakewood yeshiva who abused his wife for several years until she had no choice to but to leave with the kids is now charging his wife in court for kidnapping. The lakewood community is up in arms about the rosh yeshivas refusal to get involved.

102

 Sep 14, 2006 at 10:36 PM Anonymous Says:

We should be Gozer Taanis on the Bezayon of Talmedai Chachamim.The tremendous Azus against certain Rabonnim is awful.
Another Taanis could be used for Bitul Torah.
Add the regular Lashon horah and you will realize we should fast daily.
And how about how we Daven. Do we have Kavana?
So Rabosai, lets improve ourselves before anybody else.

103

 Sep 14, 2006 at 10:28 PM farahgityur Says:

Mooooooooooo.jpg"

104

 Sep 14, 2006 at 10:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Many poeple have eaten Treif unintentionally but what can we say about the way or daughets and wives have been dressing.This is certainly intentional and is also the blame of the husband/fathers & is no less Treif than Treifa meat.

105

 Sep 14, 2006 at 09:55 PM Anonymous Says:

The problem is that the tzibur is afraid that information which is important will be withheld or swept under the rug. When stories come out about incidents which happened years ago and Rabbonim took an ambivalent stand it pretty much says it all.
If it is the tzibur’s welfare which is primary, why are there no tikkunim being put in place to prevent this from happening again.
All we hear are about meetings and fasting. Let’s fix the Hasgacha industry so that there are rules that everyone must follow.

106

 Sep 14, 2006 at 09:46 PM farahgityur Says:

http://static.flickr.com/90/243527934_fd3d5ba09b.jpg?v=0

107

 Sep 14, 2006 at 09:34 PM Anonymous Says:

The way I see it, I have been buying my meat by MF (Motha F###) for about 8 years now, when everyone else in monsey was out of a certain cut, be it tongue etc he always had. Now I figure that I paid him about twice as much (or even more) for the meat than it was worth. Now figure i spent about 2 grand on pesach alone.... I figure he owes me about $20,000 plus any expenses I had to kasher out my kitchen not to mention the religious and mental anguish. Plus "Ovid inish dinah lenafshey", If he runs away to florida or anywhere else, I have no problem going over to his house and collecting myself.

108

 Sep 14, 2006 at 09:09 PM Anonymous Says:

I come from monsey and grew up there for the last 30 years,and personally know HRav Breslauer Shlita.He "does not" take any money whatsoever from kashrus,his yashrus in all aspects and his mesiras nefesh for any yid are way above any rav that i know worldwide,and i know many rabbonim.I truly think someone pulled one bad one on him, all the chassidim and rabbonim that know him will testify to this.
Please be carefull what you say,do you think that there is "LES DIN VLES DAYAN MIN HASHAMAYIM"??

Someone who cares and is MOCHE MECHA NEMRETZES on kevod harav,and kevod hatorah.

I do not know all the facts.

109

 Sep 14, 2006 at 07:55 PM KIDDISH FRESER Says:

So where is this KIDDISH already, I am stopping to eat....

110

 Sep 14, 2006 at 07:48 PM O.Gevald Says:

GEVALDIG !!!

111

 Sep 14, 2006 at 07:22 PM Anonymous Says:

The following Story is posted on a different part on VOS IZ NEIAS but it belongs here:

We at VOS IZ NEIAS are outraged on a misleading and Shameful headline article in today's Times Herald Record by Chris McKenna, on the story of the Treifa non-kosher butcher scandal that hit Monsey, NY. the headline reads "Did Kiryas Joel butcher sell fake kosher meat?

The headlines paints it as if KJ Meat Market was directly involved! But nothing in the article supports that, and as we all know, no butcher of Kiyras Joel had any suspicion of selling non kosher chicken or supplying anyone else with treifa meat.

We ask our readers to contact the reporter who did this news story, to clarify his mistake.

Chris McKenna

U/D
The heading to the article online has been corrected, however the print edition that has the same misleading headline, should be clarified or corrected in tomorrows print addition.

We where made aware that the misleading headline was done by a copy editor at the record without any knowledge of it to the reporter on this article Chris McKenna.

Chris Mckanea is known to the community, and has been a long time reporter for the Times Herald Record on issues about KJ, he has been fair and balanced through all the years of reporting, and has absolutely no negativity bias against KJ.

The real question remains was this a pure blunt mistake by a copy editor, or is someone at Times Herald Record trying to use negative and deceptive headlines when it deals with KJ.
posted by VOS IZ NEIAS at 7:09 AM on Sep 14 2006




Shlomo (scott) Horowitz - Nassau Provisions said...
Hey Guys, I see that you were all outraged at the incorrect and misleading comment made by the Times Herald Record and you were very successful in making everybody aware of that headline and it worked it was corrected.

well I have a similar story to tell you and I can use your help and input,I am the owner of a Food Distribution Business in Freeport, Long Island with the name of NASSAU PROVISIONS who has been falsley accused in this instant story of Shevach Meats, it all started out here on this blog by someone anonymously falsly accusing my company in this matter with a false accusation that one of my drivers sold to Shevach treif product, when the fact is that I didn't even sell this guy any product in the past several months because Shevach (Mr. Finkel)bounced a check on me in June so I stopped delivering him product all summer, and we never sell any treif products we only carry Kosher products, since that anonymous blog posting was posted it started creeping up all over the so called underworld of blogs and chatrooms that my company is involved and I started getting calls from all over that I didn't know what hit me....after getting phone calls from the investigative Rabbies whom I turned over all of the sales records it turned out that I sold this guy in the past 3 years product what Shevach consumed in one week!!!and we don't even carry the FRESH poultry products that shevach sells, (we sold him some pre-packaged cold cut's and some TURKEY parts a total of only 3 items that he bought once or twice a month)needless to say that I was wrongly accused and slandered by some people who were working hard all over the blogs, (I Documented all those postings) but the truth prevails and I was assured by the Investigative Rabbies that by now they already know the truth of where Mr. Finkel got the treif products and they will publish it after their investigation is over,

my question to you blog reader's is what would you do if you would be in my shoes?

4:06 PM


Anonymous said...
Mr. Horowitz, I feel for you and I think that we the readers and posters of this blog have an obligation to help you since you were hurt and it started over here on our beloved blog VOS IZ NEIAS, let me answer you like a jew answers with a question?? what shall we do to help you???

4:34 PM


Anonymous said...
Hey anon 4:34 lets convene a meeting of all the CHACMEI VOS IZ NEIAS and come up with a plan to help this guy!!! but were do we meet? I think that the editor should open for us a conference room where we could sit and discuss!!!!

4:39 PM


Anonymous said...
LIPA SHNITZLER, MARK LEVIN, where are you????? give a hand to this fellow yid!!!!

4:40 PM


Anonymous said...
I think that we all bloggers should give out a declaration (kol korah) denouncing what that blogger did to this man its not nice especially when this evil act is done in the month ELUL and we condemm the despicable act of this blogger, he should also be thrown out of our blogger community!!!!WHADYA THING MY DEAR BLOGGERRS?

4:50 PM


Anonymous said...
I think that the suggestion about the KOL KORAH is good because our s will be more worth then the RA-BUNIM'S and it will also be history in the making..the first time bloggers give a KOL KORAH instead of RA-BUNIM..

5:16 PM


O.Gevald said...
To Mr. Horowitz from Nassau Provisions;
I hear your pain.
For starters, we need to be convinced of your sincerity AND whether or not you product deserves the approval of all us bloggers.
My suggestion to you, is to host a big party, a kiddish, where we can sample all of your so called quality products. Let us know where we can pick up a couple of cases of each of your wonderful products and we'll let you know - and the world - on a special blog, and see if you deserve a retraction from whoever posted against your fleish.
Waiting.

5:25 PM


Anonymous said...
I AGREE, I VOTE YES!!!

5:31 PM


Shlomo (scott) Horowitz said...
TO: O.GEVALD I don't know where you reside, but if you reside in Monsey you can get my products at the following stores:

MONSEY GLATT
WESLEY KOSHER
MONSEY KOSHER PLAZA
ALL FRESH
ROCKLAND KOSHER
HATZLACHA
PATHMARK
SHOPRITE

and other smaller stores

And you can have a Smorgesboard of a Kiddish or other products for the party from Dairy (cholov Yisroel,or Stam) Deli (Meal Mart,Empire,999,Hod Lavan,Hod Taim,Nathans herrings, Ba-Tampte pickels,Gold's Horseradish etc,)and Frozen (almost everything you find in the freezer)and Grocery (over 3000 items) is this enough for your appetite?

some of these stores make free deliveries (after you pay..) so no need shlepping to pick it up..

6:02 PM


Shlomo (scott) Horowitz said...
to O. GEVALD: OK OK I GIVE IN...I am not that cheap..I am inviting you to a big Kiddish which will be after Simhat Torah.
one of my friends in shul told me that he is going to buy me an Aliyah L'Torah as "Choson B'Reishis" on Simhat Torah and I will host a big Kiddish a week or two later for this joyous occasion, I Invite you and all of you bloggers to that Kiddush, it will be my pleasure to have you all there.

6:10 PM


Anonymous said...
OH MY GOSH!! KIDDUSH ON VOS IZ NEIAS!!!!! HEY MR. HOROWITZ, CAN I BRING ALONG MY WHOLE FAMILY? (I HAVE 23 KIDS)

6:53 PM

112

 Sep 14, 2006 at 06:56 PM Anonymous Says:

i hear MF is opening a kosher mcdonald with the nirbater hashkocha

113

 Sep 14, 2006 at 05:23 PM Anonymous Says:

MF will be making a minyan for shabbos in his home, mincha erev shabbos, 6.45 followed by a halacha shiur and then mariv. Shacris will be at 8.45, followed by laining with harav F, mincha shabbos afternoon 6.30 followed by pirkei avos.

schedule for rosh hashano:
6.25 mincha, 7.50 mariv.
Shachris 8.00 (tekias shofar sunday at 11.00 by harav MF).

Shabos shuva drosho will be iyh at 4.30 all are invited.

114

 Sep 14, 2006 at 05:17 PM O.Gevald Says:

"The fifth chelek of Shulchan Aruch".
The saying goes, that any Baal Musmach knows, that not just do you have to know all Daled Chelkey Shulchan Aruch but he must also profess a familiarality of the "FIFTE" chelek - namely, "common sense" and practicality.
I am wondering if it's time to introduce a Zextah chelek - to educate Rabbanim as to how business is conducted in todays worls - by otherwise so-called ehrlicher yidden. At what point is it, that we say, ven es kimt tzi gelt, iz an andere velt???? It was not said for crooks, they do that all the time, so it's not "an andere velt". Seemingly, it is being said about people who otherwise are upstanding fellow citizens, but when it comes to money - the almighty dollar, they lose sight of what they SHOULD be doing and instead do blindly, bending the laws a little here and there knowing they won't get caught. But when they do, everyone wonders, how can that fellow do something like that? Hence the old saying: Ven es kimt tzi gelt, iz an andere velt. But it's been that way for many, many generations already, why does a person have a chezkas kashrus? The Shulchan Aruch does discuss when a person loses it, and if so, why is it that a person can just take another Hechsher if dumped by the first one? We should have a major reporting agency listing all individuals that have cheated the public. If the Rabbinic Authority were to put a name on the list, it would not be considered Lashon Hora. Shidduchim will be affected, minyanim won't accept him, yeshivos will not allow his children. That alone should be a deterrent. If not, he will bring about his own downfall, and there is nothing we can do about it.
Is this a proported "frumkeit" that this fellow is getting away with it??? If he did this, he should be put in Cheirem NOW.
Ehrlich iz nisht geferlich, uber tzu frum iz krum - my Zayde used to say. What kind of "messages" are we sending if we don't clamp down hard and fast on something so serious? It boggles the mind.

115

 Sep 14, 2006 at 04:05 PM Anonymous Says:

any updates with NETZACH in boro park? is it ok

116

 Sep 14, 2006 at 04:04 PM Anonymous Says:

one rabbi eight years ago notifies the powers to be about the shevach problem. the answer rabbi "b"
"mf" have a chazkus kashrus.

that's the "raid: today.my question is how to did i lose my chazkas kashrus because of him?
why do i have to pay so much extra for mashgichim ?
why?
why am i paying because the so called tzadikim rabanim, call them what you want screwed up?
why is the little guy always screwed?
i can tell you now i don't forgive one well meaning tzadik,for my financial lose that they are causing to cover their beard .frock payos . i don't care.
the screwed up they cover for each other i don't know what.
but the little me and you don't make om their radar screen.

117

 Sep 14, 2006 at 03:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Mf is not a baal koraeh.He is a baal kerri.

118

 Sep 14, 2006 at 03:37 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm not sure that Hatzuluch carries no blaim. Mr. Green and his father R'Moshe Green were notified 8 years ago that there are problems with Shevach and they did nothing!

119

 Sep 14, 2006 at 03:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Subject: Hakhel Email Community Awareness Bulletin-Jewish Geography



JEWISH GEOGRAPHY

At one time or another, we have all played Jewish Geography. Somehow, the New Yorker visiting Montreal will run into the Londoner who will tell him that his second cousin originally from Antwerp is married to the New Yorker's sister living in Petach Tikvah. A sign of Galus? Perhaps. But more importantly, it demonstrates that the World we live in is like a large body that connects us all. Our connections can have astounding positive effects, as the Tefillos and Chesed we can perform for one another spans the globe. Indeed, the Chazal which teaches "Kol Yisroel Araivim Zeh Lazeh--all of Klal Yisroel are guarantors for each other" (Shevuos 39A) takes on a new and special meaning.

There is an important, second aspect to Jewish Geography as well--as pointed to in the recent Kashrus scandal in Monsey, New York. That is, by no means, way, or shape of the imagination can any one of us limit or reduce the issue or problem to a given, set and defined area in chilly, Upstate New York. As a real-life example, a Rav in Monsey whose children were living in Yerushalayim, sent a case of the infamous chickens to them for Pesach. The Monsey chickens went to Eretz Yisroel, and probably were consumed by people from all over the world. However, there is something more profound, and we will explain based upon the recent words of Rav Yisroel Reisman, Shlita.

Rav Reisman related that while in Yerushalayim this past summer, during the Israel-Terrorist War, he heard a shiur from HaRav Druk, Shlita. HaRav Druk noted that people on the street were blaming the war on many things. One blamed it on cell phones. A second on lack of tznius. A third on improper use of affluence. A fourth on the irreligious. Yet, there was a clear common denominator in all of these causes--it was a sin that the person making the claim was not guilty of. The first one didn't own a cell phone. The second was modest, the third was poor and the fourth was religious. In short, it is always easier and more efficient to place the blame or responsibility on someone else. As we all know how chashuv--how important--the Monsey kehillah is to international Jewry, and how important the Rabonim involved in this mess are, it becomes clear to us that Hashem is looking to us to look into ourselves and not limit events or occurrences to their secular geographic location. Would we or could we limit the "light earthquake" last week in Yerushalayim to the Yerushalmis--or should we feel the "light" rumblings across the globe?

The events of the recent months have led us to a time of important introspection. Let us not think about he/she or they could improve, but how I can improve. What can I do better--not only to help myself, but my family and us all? Many will be participating with the people of Monsey this Sunday in fasting for all or part of the day. For those who are, and for those who can't, it would seem appropriate that we spend some precious, honest moments taking stock and trying to derive meaning from the events around us in preparation for Rosh Hashana. From the Monsey event, for instance--what can I do to raise the standard of Kashrus in my home and/or outside the home? From the earthquake, for instance, how can I better learn to sense Hashem's omnipotence without feeling pressure, worry, or pain?

Hashem has uniquely blessed us, over the inanimate, the vegetable, the animal, and even many of the living, with the ability to change for the positive. Let us take the opportunities, the situations, the events, the challenges that face us individually and as a community and grow to our full potential. Jewish Geography--it is more than fun--it goes to our unity and to our essence.


For past issues of The Hakhel Community Awareness Bulletin, public notices
and an archive of emailed notices, visit Hakhel's website at
http://www.hakhel.info

120

 Sep 14, 2006 at 02:46 PM Anonymous Says:

resp to anon 1:13
The shul is K'hal B'nei Ashkenaz(Rabbi Zimmerman's)
Regarding Daf Yomi I do not know since this shiur was NOT said in the shul

Regarding his wife- ask her.

121

 Sep 14, 2006 at 02:45 PM GAON Says:

Heard MF was BAL TOKAIEH, BAL t'filah, "BAL KOREH'.

Found out it's the other way around .....

A BAL.. "KOREH L'BAL" !!!

122

 Sep 14, 2006 at 02:44 PM Anonymous Says:

response to anon 1:13

123

 Sep 14, 2006 at 02:37 PM GAON Says:

TO Talmid Chochom anon 9:12

Another kvetcher!
Yes let's not WORD it 'chotei' nor 'DIN' machtie h'rabim... (like Yeruvum ben Nevut -see sanhedrin p. 102a)

just "MACHSHIL H'RABIM'!!

HAPPY!!??

PS. Don't you know that in such a case every-one is cheiyev a 'korbon chatos'?

124

 Sep 14, 2006 at 01:39 PM Yachtchoo Says:

I am sure the Rabbonim thought about his, I just didn't see it here:

MF must have had a different large hidden location (other than by Hatzlocho)where he prepared the 'treifas'. He didn't just take them off the truck and deliver the entire case to Yeshivas and Catering. He must have had a warehouse type of place - Who knows what we could (or could HAVE) find there?!!!!

125

 Sep 14, 2006 at 01:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Anon 12:18

You seem to find things out before anyone else does.

Which shul?

Is he allowed to give Daf Yomi shiurim?

Is his wife staying with him?

126

 Sep 14, 2006 at 01:08 PM O.Gevald Says:

To Anon 12:33pm;
Regarding calling someone to Bais Din, BOTH parties must pay "half" or equal amounts.
The "Nitvah" must also agree to pay. All Batei Dinim have price menus - believe it or not! They usually charge by the hour.
The only thing the "Toveya" pays himself is for the Beis Din to send out the Hazmanah. They usually charge for each Hazmanah. Up to 3 must get sent out before the other party (Nitvah) is considered as one who ignores Beis Din and you can get further "papers" against the "nitvah" fi he indeed doesn't show up (for a fee of course).
The actual Din Torah fees are split among both parties even if you don't want to come but are forced.

127

 Sep 14, 2006 at 12:51 PM Anonymous Says:

After the Shatner case why would
anyone trust Bel$ky?

128

 Sep 14, 2006 at 12:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Even more so when an establishment changes Hashgachos i want to know why... Was there a problem? Was it to epensive and he opted for the cheaper one. Is the new one more Machmir?
We deserve to know what we are eating. I for one will pay close attention to where i purchase food.
As an aside, the ads in the Brooklyn papers have many stores advertising that they have a mashgiach timidi and are perfect.... I wouldn't eat in their homes why should i use theri meat

129

 Sep 14, 2006 at 12:33 PM Anonymous Says:

for conversation only, gevald please educate me if I owe you money and you call me to besdin who pays them?
I would think, "you" since you are the one calling?
if this is true, How does that work? You pay bais din? how can they be impartial?
unless it does not work this way?

130

 Sep 14, 2006 at 12:23 PM O.Gevald Says:

To Anon 11:59am;
To meet the head-Mashgichim alone would not educate you as to what problems/shaylos a particular establishment creates. Case in point: Let's pick the OU. Rav Y. Belsky is the "head-mashgaich". You would trust him without a doubt. But that doesn't tell you what a particular restaurant or caterer screwed-up and how to be "maykil" so as not to have to throw out "the whole chasunah" etc.
I understand that the job of the Rav Hamachshir IS TO FIND HETERIM. Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT"L was noted to have said that "they (people) come to me for a Heter, they already know to assume it's Assur from the Shulchan Aruch". We need the Gadul to pasken for us how to find that loophole that you didn't find, or that you don't have the "playtzos" to be "moreh heter" for yourself (negius). So the Rav Hamachshir is usually not the problem, it's the establishment that generates the problem. I want to know if I'm about to eat at a place "full of holes", or is it an "ehrlicher" place that doesn't have kashrus problems (that need heterim I wouldn't rely on in my own home).

131

 Sep 14, 2006 at 12:22 PM Anonymous Says:

I heard this story about Rav Bresslauer a few months ago.
The Rebitzen was shopping in a store under his hashgocho. She picked up an item and the owner recognized her and gave her another item, which he said was better quality. The owner received a call from Rav Bresslauer not to do that gain.

132

 Sep 14, 2006 at 12:18 PM Anonymous Says:

A copy of a letter was posted in the shul MF attended. It requests that he no longer show his face there.

133

 Sep 14, 2006 at 12:03 PM O.Gevald Says:

To Anon 11:13am;
Batei Dinim may NOT take money from one party (payment) and not get an equal amount from second party. Not just that, one party cannot even pay all the costs (foot the bill) himself if the other party has a reason not to pay on his own.

134

 Sep 14, 2006 at 12:02 PM Anonymous Says:

why is this going down the screen already? we shouldn't forget this so fast we have to live with it! we have to face it! even though people are getteng bored they are cowards, trying to forget and live on with life, we are not to do that. we have to do tshuva it MUST hurt each and every one of us! even the ones that did not even come near this meat! please put this back as top news. Thank you.

135

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:

From what I heard, bais tefillah is not giving up the business. I heard that there was a new letter stating to this fact although I have not seen this letter. Since there are people that wont use anyone but them.
I also hope that we can get together general meeting, symposium, convention, call it what ever you want, of all hasgochos, where we can meet each one individually and see for ourselves who they are and how far we want to trust them. They may be very trustworthy people but there should be a venue for the lay person to meet each and every individual (head) mashgiach.
I know that there is a food show every year which might be convenient but i dont think that that is the proper place for this, there should be one organized in brooklyn and one in monsey.

136

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:55 AM O.Gevald Says:

I am NOT doubting Rav Bresaluer's integrity in any way, shape, or form. I have known him personally many years, from the day he was MY MOHEL close to 40 years ago in Monsey, to the many years I grew up there and continue to be somewhat familiar with the new Monsey of the last 15-20 years since I still have immediate family there.
I only wanted to point out that no one is infalible. Mistakes happen. This that happened, as it turns out to be, by "an avid klall worker" (quotes from Bais Tefillah letter) is what stunned everybody and continues to amaze one and all. It's like having a long-time neigbor turn out to be a "terrorist sleeper-cel" chas v'sholom.
I am waiting to hear that this individual is being put in Cheirim. No "if's and's or but's".
Until then, there seems to be no system in place to deal with serious violators. Therefore I keep saying to myself that something is yet to come - some big announcement, what I don't know. How can one lone individual do ALL this? It wasn't a Mom & Pop operation where you can smuggle in a little here and there. He wasn't a guy who was a "Lo yutzlach" or a "low-life".

137

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:34 AM Anonymous Says:

Rab Bresslauer is one of the finest most honest person I know. He would never intentionally do anything to hurt anyone for money or anything else.
He took a position based on Halacha (which all hashgachos use). Believe me when I tell you that he is physically sick over this. Anyone who knows him is aware of the fact that he is a person who sees only the good in people. As it turns out this Mida Tova is at odds with the way merchants act. I hope that he recovers from this terrible incident and that he does not lose faith in all people because of the acts of one person.

138

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:33 AM O.Gevald Says:

There IS a way to be assured that the Rav had no Negius. That would be, that he collected NO salary from the hechsherim business the shul ran. AND no salary increase as Rov due to the shuls coffers widening through the hechsherim business it ran. I'm no posek, but I assume that would clear ANY Rav Hamachshir from "negius". I'm not sure it's something to be embarassed about, but to have received shoychad (unknowingly of course) is not an indication of unqualification to serve as a Rov not unfit). The Torah warns us that the Chocham, who otherwise was known for his wise judgement, can be swayed (unintentionally).
That Bais Tefilloh is "reeling", is an understatement. Read their letter and you'll see they agree a "pirtzah" (quote) ocurred. It is also clearly stated that Bais Tefilloh (Rav B.) is no longer in the kashrus/hechsher business.
I'm wondering where that leaves all the stores that used them.
I wonder more, about any meat products sold anywhere other than at a butcher with an independent mashgiach.
Let's just start with implementing a Mashgiach Temidi at every meat store or caterer. Then we'll learn how to fine-tune it, to really work.
We all know of places that have Mashgichim who look like they don't know their hand from their foot, never mind how to prevent someone slipping something in that doesn't belong there.
I aslo suggest a forum or other public place be made where all Hechsherim publicize ALL the shaylos that came up that year and how they resolved it (paskened). Consumers can then decide on their own if they want to trust this Hechsher or whether they wan to patronize this establishment that generates such "shaylos" in the first place. Think about it.

139

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:18 AM Anonymous Says:

Rabbi Lipschutz,

Great post, great article..

All the yated bashers can go back to work now ...

140

 Sep 14, 2006 at 11:13 AM Anonymous Says:

o. gevald,

You are right IF the contract Rav B. has with bais tefillah gives him all funds collected from hashgachos. I didnt see that contract, and I am not a boki in Choshan Mishpat, but I am positive (as clear as its raining outside) that Rav B. is.
The pasuk in plain translation is referring to outright bribary. If not how do you reconcile the batei dinim taking money to arbitrate a case? Money going directly into their pocket?

141

 Sep 14, 2006 at 10:40 AM O.Gevald Says:

To Annon 11:00 pm;
Regarding "Shoychad or Negius", I hear what you want to imply but it doesn't work that way.
If the Rav is the CEO behind the hechsher and he uses the Kehilla's name for which he collects a salary, then the incoming funds go staright into is pockets. To think otherwise is to admit your gullibility. HoRav Breslauer is a noted choshuva Rov placed into Bais Tefillah by Rav Y. Kamenetsky ZT"L. That makes him credible, period. Comes along the Posuk in the Torah to warn us that the greatest Tzadik can be blinded and pasken incorrectly however UNINTENTIONAL it is. (Pasuk of "Shoychad yaver einei Chachomim.) What case do you think the Torah was referring to???

142

 Sep 14, 2006 at 09:23 AM Anonymous Says:

THE RUMOR HAS IT THAT THE BUTCHER IN SKVER WAS GONA BUY NON KOSHER CHICKENS BUT WAS AFRAID THE CHICKEN WOULD START TALKING & HED BE COUGHT

143

 Sep 14, 2006 at 09:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Are there any Talmeidei Chacomim here?

Is someone considered a Machotai es harabim if the person during the Avira has no idea that they are doing an aveira. From the loshon of the Rambam it would seem that only if you cause another do an aveira and they know it is an aveira such as bringing someone into a treif restaurant and using peer pressure to get them to eat or then you are a true machtei…

144

 Sep 14, 2006 at 08:30 AM Burnw Says:

after reading all this garbage and Loshon Hora and unabated sinas chinom, the best line thus far is Anonymous 749 am.

YOu missed your calling. You should have been on the Borscht Belt circuit.

Keep up the good work, Anon 749.

145

 Sep 14, 2006 at 08:11 AM R' Shlomo Says:

I am amazed how many people would rather discuss what happened in the past then look to see what we can do to make sure this does not happen again.
The Rabbonim can meet, speak, be goizer t’aanis and have posters printed all to their hearts content. What it seems they can not do is agree on a solution.
Unless some very tough measures are taken, within 6 months it will be business as usual. The black market meat and chicken industry is a thriving one and the price differential between black market is substantial. The packaging all looks authentic and the seals are all in place. This is a huge temptation for many store owners. After all it is the same exact stuff they are buying but it is cheaper. Kashrus is no problem as it has all the necessary Chosamos (seals). The fact that this may be stolen meat doesn’t even enter their minds. The possibility of forged or stolen packaging does not register. The only register they hear is the cash register recording larger profits.
If the rabbonim allow supermarkets to re package these items they are negligent. If there is no consensus as to how hasgachos should work they are to blame. How do Hasgachos allow borderline jews to run a store without a tmidi or even a support staff of mashgichim…
Have we reached the pointof Pnei Hador Kpnei Hakelev….. Are these rabbonim looking back to see what we want and acting accordingly…. I say tell every rav that we don’t care if twelve new Chinese or Italian restaurants open up. We can live without the Schwarma and we do not need to go away for Pesach ….. What we want is a standard of Kashrus which we can trust and we want it now

146

 Sep 14, 2006 at 07:49 AM Anonymous Says:

I was going to move to Monsey....but I chickened out!

147

 Sep 14, 2006 at 07:26 AM Anonymous Says:

As a European who travels to America regularly this story has been an eye opener. Over here the meat business is much smaller and less commercialised. The costs are much higher though. My mincemeat costs over $8 a pound. If you want increased mashgichim, labellers, investigators etc. you're going to have to pay for it and in a big way.

148

 Sep 14, 2006 at 06:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Wednesday, September 13, 2006
A TIME FOR TEARS
By Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz

The frum world is still reeling with shock over revelations that a Monsey butcher was fraudulently selling non-kosher meat and chicken as kosher. While it remains unclear exactly what was taking place at Shevach Meats and for how long, there is no doubt that people were led astray on a massive scale.

People in Monsey stood on long lines kashering their utensils last week following the p’sak of local rabbonim, as printed in last week’s Yated. That p’sak advised that all utensils used for cooking and eating meat and poultry products purchased at that store require kashering.

Some stories are so sad that it is difficult to write about them. You want to believe that it didn’t really happen. You wait for someone to call you and tell you that it was all a massive misunderstanding.

For once, the cliché that something is “unbelievable” can be taken literally. The news of the betrayal of the public trust in such an egregious manner and in such a vital area of Jewish life is staggering. It has left tens of thousands of Jews dumbfounded, wondering how such a thing could have happened. The initial reaction of shock and horror has not worn off, as responsible leaders seek to determine the details of this case and whether the practice is more widespread.

Rabbonim in the Monsey area were kept busy paskening shailos on this matter as people went about taking stock of their pots and pans and determining which required kashering and which didn’t. Never in their wildest dreams did they imagine such a thing would happen in their community. Rabbonim across the world addressed the issue in their Shabbos drashos as people searched for answers and direction.

One seeks to remember the last time something like this took place, bringing a michshol to this many people. We hope and pray that such an occurrence will never be repeated.

“How can it be? How can it possibly be? What are we missing?” asked people who are medakdeik b’kallah k’bachamurah. Erudite people were unable to answer.

You Couldn’t Miss
The Nobility

Huge crowds of Jews from all sectors were seen shlepping their keilim and waiting on line to do hagollas keilim all across Monsey. You couldn’t miss the nobility and self-sacrifice on the part of so many Yidden who threw out food and keilim and went to exceptional lengths to get rid of any shemetz of tarfus. You saw rabbonim standing for hours on site, answering questions as people stood in line with their pots, pans and flatware. Nobody took shortcuts in this tragedy, trying to get away cheap and easy. On the contrary, they were anxious to fulfill the halachic requirements and then some.

This Elul, people received a lesson in the power of the Yeitzer Hara and chet. We have been reminded to never be complacent or take anything for granted. We were reminded to ask questions; to be ever vigilant. In this land of plenty, where everything seems to come so easy, some reminisced of a world gone by where their mothers stood in their kitchens kashering chickens.

In a world of mass produced everything, certain customs are swept away by the engine of progress and it seems futile to hearken back to the days of yore. No one we know wants to go back to that laborious process, but as it was thrown out, so was a certain feeling for practical halacha. Yiddines would look at and examine the heiliger korkevan and bring their chickens to the local rov. Kitchen counters were lined with newspaper as poultry sat covered in kosher salt. A smell of broiled livers wafted through the tenements as Shabbos approached.

All this went out the window and will not return anytime soon. In truth, not all was well in previous generations, either. People involved in producing and providing kosher meat at the turn of the century were often less than upstanding. It required determined leadership and mesirus nefesh of rabbonim who put their lives on the line to stand up to them. Stories of Rav Yaakov Yosef’s battles with entrenched evil-doers during his tenure as Chief Rabbi of New York City over 100 years ago have become legendary. The Ridbaz writes quite emotionally in an introduction to one of his seforim of his travails as he attempted to raise the level of kashrus while he served as rov in America.

We have come a long way, yet there is always room for improvement in all fields of human endeavor, because man is not infallible. We should remember to be makir tov to the people who work long hours to provide us with kosher products. They slave away in hot kitchens and travel to far away places so that we can walk into virtually any supermarket anywhere in this country and find kosher products. This was not always the case. It was a long, protracted struggle with many setbacks along the way. As bad as things are, we ought to keep things in their proper perspective and be thankful for what we have.

The dust has not yet settled and all the facts in the meat scandal are not yet fully known. Let us wait until the rabbonim responsibly examine what went wrong and decide how to rectify the lapses that allowed it to happen. Let us not fall into the trap of sensationalism and gossip. Let not a communal tragedy become a pretext for further defilement. Let us use our time to study Shulchan Aruch and sifrei halacha so that we can be better and more complete frum Yidden.

Let us not fall prey to the temptation to exaggerate and embellish the most lurid and shocking aspects of anything under discussion or investigation. Let us employ the necessary self control, realizing the fruitless nature of endless and often erroneous analysis. Let us hope and pray that the scandal is not as deep as it appears to be. And let us once again reaffirm our fidelity to the halacha and not let superficial understanding of these matters interfere with the course of action that must be taken.

We are all experiencing a period of sadness and grief. We need to channel those feelings into something positive. As we reflect and engage in a period of introspection, we need to rise above the failures and work to achieve a more perfect state of affairs. When events such as these take place, we struggle, on a personal and communal level, to place it in the appropriate context. It is true that we don’t know why these events occur. But, as always, in the aftermath of such happenings, we must utilize such a tragic occurrence as an opportunity to take spiritual stock of where we are and how we can better ourselves in our eternal quest to be dovuk baHashem.

In the first of this week’s parshiyos, Parshas Nitzovim, the Torah tells us, “Hanistaros laHashem Elokeinu v’haniglos lonu ulevoneinu, the hidden [sins] are for Hashem, our G-d, but the revealed [sins] are for us and our children.” Moshe Rabbeinu reassures Klal Yisroel that hidden sins are the province of Hakadosh Boruch Hu alone, and he holds no one responsible but the sinners themselves. The Ramban adds that the posuk also refers to aveiros that are hidden from the perpetrator himself, as it often happens that people sin out of ignorance of halacha or regarding the facts of a situation. Such a chet belongs to Hashem, in the sense that he does not hold it against the sinner.

Perhaps the posuk is also hinting that if we want to ensure that Hashem does not hold us accountable for the hidden sins, we have to demonstrate adequate effort to rectify the sins and inequities that we are aware of. When Hashem observes us working to improve ourselves in areas that are “niglos lonu,” when it is clear that we are cognizant of the areas that need to be addressed and remedied, it is then that Hashem will ensure that there will be no hidden violations of halacha.

We are all aware of problems and concerns that are nigleh - they’re well known; they are out there in the open - yet we haven’t taken the proper steps and we haven’t mustered up the necessary courage to deal with the problems and resolve them.

On all matters which we know we are deficient in, in our own personal lives and as a community, we must demonstrate that we take these issues seriously and that we will do all we can, and then some, to provide effective and lasting solutions.

He Broke
Down Crying

Last week, amidst the tumult surrounding the scandal, I heard a story that drove home an important message regarding the calamity that has hit our community.

The story, as it was told, was that an elderly gentleman, who decades ago survived the concentration camps of Auschwitz, went to kasher his keilim after learning the p’sak of the rabbonim. As he stood there, handing over his pot to be dunked in the boiling water, he broke down in tears, weeping uncontrollably. He wasn’t burned by the steam or splashed by the boiling hot water, but his soul was seared and the pain was unbearable. He said to no one in particular, “All my years in the camps, I was literally moser nefesh not to eat tarfus. I risked my life, many times, just to have kosher food to eat, even as I existed on mere morsels of bread. Many times I starved. And now, so many years later, living in the land of plenty, I may have eaten treif.”

This man cried because, after a lifetime of nisyonos and challenges of all kinds, he understands the severity and the gravity of what has occurred. To a man who risked his life for kashrus, the possible consumption of non-kosher chicken is a cause for weeping, not a reason to gossip.

As many people indeed are, we should all be heartbroken over what took place. The tragedy should leave us speechless and not provide fodder for small talk at get-togethers.

We should focus on ensuring that we never, ever, become accustomed to a lack of fidelity in halacha. And in order to do so, we must learn halacha more often, in depth, with due diligence. We can’t live as frum Yidden without devoting hours upon hours plumbing the depths of Shulchan Aruch and the poskim. That goes for Orach Chaim, as well as Choshen Mishpot, Yoreh Deah and Hilchos Lashon Hara.

When The Stakes
Are That High

Rav Chaim Soloveitchik would often repeat the following thought from the sefer Be’er Mayim Chaim. The posuk recounts in Parshas Chayei Sorah when Avrohom Avinu sent Eliezer to find a proper shidduch for his son Yitzchok: “Vayomer Avrohom el avdo zekan beiso hamoshel bechol asher lo, sim noh yodcha tachas yereichi.” The Torah describes how much confidence Avrohom had in Eliezer, that he trusted him with everything he owned, as he controlled all of Avrohom’s possessions. Why is it necessary for the Torah to elaborate on that? And if the servant was so trusted, why did Avrohom make him swear that he wouldn’t go to the Bnos Canaan to find a wife for Yitzchok?

The Be’er Mayim Chaim answered with a moshol. If a person is traveling through a strange city and feels hungry, he goes into a restaurant, asks if it is kosher and sits down for a meal. Someone with higher religious standards asks who gives the hechsher before sitting down to eat. If he is even more G-d fearing, he first goes to the local shul and inquires as to where people eat out, and then makes his way to the restaurant. A traveler who is even more medakdeik b’mitzvos would make his way the local rov and ask him where he can eat in town before going to a food establishment.

What if the person is coming to town to loan $1,000,000.00 to someone with a heter iska? Would he content himself with asking the borrower if he is trustworthy and then engage in the deal? Would he be satisfied if a few people in the shul told him that he can trust the man? What if the rov told him that he can feel safe entrusting the local man with his million dollars? He would adopt all these safeguards and more. He’d ask questions, he’d meet the person, talk to him and check him out. Following all his inquiries, he would only then go into the deal if he had co-signers on the loan and a lien on the man’s house. He’d do everything he could to ascertain that his money would be safe.

The Be’er Mayim Chaim explains that the posuk goes to great lengths to illustrate that regarding Avrohom Avinu, the opposite was the case. When it came to finances, he trusted Eliezer with everything, but when it came to matters of Yiddishkeit, he said, “Sim noh yodchu tachas yereichi.” He made him swear that he would follow Avrohom Avinu’s instructions exactly as he was ordered, without deviating.

We have to learn to ask questions when we are unsure of the halacha. When things are incongruous, when something seems suspicious, we must probe for an explanation. If things don’t add up we must speak up. There is no shame in asking questions repeatedly until we feel safe and secure that what we are doing is proper and just. We have to take our Yiddishkeit as seriously as we do our finances if we want to be sure we are acting properly.

Part of the curse of golus is that we have no novi who can interpret for us the actions of Hashem, who can help us correct our ways and explain to us the reasons behind disturbing events. Thus, we are left in the dark, broken and despondent. Ain lonu novi v’ein lonu chozeh, v’ein lonu shiur rak haTorah hazos.

What took place felt like a 9/11 in the world of kashrus. Our response must be a re-dedication to Torah study and observance with a renewed enthusiasm, allegiance and vigor. In this merit, we will be spared further michsholim and the accompanying agony and sadness and merit a teshuvah sheleima.
posted by Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz at 12:18 PM

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149

 Sep 14, 2006 at 12:48 AM GAON Says:

TO LITVISHE RAV re-CHODOSH 7:37

Well said n' correct, as i have written before, THE SHEILEH is not only the exact COUNT 'n number rishonim who sides l'heter vs... In the 'world of P'SAK halachah" : 'mesorah' and 'minhag' is what counts, if the 'Magen Avraham' says: this is the minhog that we pasken like the rishonim that chodosh chu"l is a rabonon
(and only somoch le. yisael is incl. see ch. 489) n' so agrees the pri megadim, chok yaakov that this is the source of the minhag

NO WAY! CHAS V'SHALOM can anyone criticize anyone doing so, after what roiv (roibah d'roiba)klal yisrael were noheg so,(as the Chok Yaakov writes: only "one of 1,000 are makpid"... ch. 489, see mishknos yaakov yo"d - a 'litvak' )

YES if you are a 'baal nefesh' kol h'kovod - be MACHMIR!

BUT don't forget be machmir on everything (like your wife should not go covered with a sheitel only a tichel granting the 'magen avraham' is matir but that is not enough (acording to CHODOSH ANON.) ALOT of achronim argue....

To finnish off; i don't know what's wrong whith these ppl they take a chumreh in what every one said's yachmir "leatzmoh" 'n drei a kup!

they don't have n' don't know ANYTHING about mesorah-HALACHAH

V'HEIYNEH TAMEH D'CHODOSH - V'HEINEH TAM "D'EIRUV"!!!

ENOUGH!!!!

PS by the way; if you really r interested knowing the exact shitahs rishonim go through the long tshuvah of the above MISHKNOS YAAKOV
(yo"d ch. 67-68 aprox. 25 pgs)

150

 Sep 14, 2006 at 12:01 AM Anonymous Says:

MF figured that since he mixed up the the kosher with the non kosher and the chickens were more than a dya old so it became a sofek in a aina ben yomo

151

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Why is it that MF would not be Misvada himself and get a Tsuvah from the Rabbonim like the two butchers in Krakau?

152

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:00 PM Anonymous Says:

To,o. gevald and numerous others that keep on with the misinformation.

Rabbi B. was not paid directly from shevach. The hasgocho came from Kehillas Bais Tefillah who them employed Rabbi B. and Rabbi U. there was no "Shochad" "Negius" or anything else less then what the shilcan aruch states.
So once again get the facts straight before posting

153

 Sep 13, 2006 at 10:44 PM O.Gevald Says:

Some food for thought...
Mashgichim/hechsherim that get paid from the store (current practice) should be considered "negius" if not "shoychad". How can anyone be trusted if money is being placed in thei pockets???
Doesn't the pasuk refer to this in "Shoychad y'aver einei Chachomim". Seems like it definately transpired here. I can't begin to imagine the pain Rav Breslauer is suffering. I'm not a posek, but I have to agree with some prevoius bloggers who think that hechsherim should be paid by the communities/kehillos and not the store/vendor. At least then we'll get an honest opinion.
I also fail to see why repackaging of meat products is allowed in any shape or form. The O.U. never allowed it on anything, what-so-ever. If Pathmark, Shoprite or Waldbaum's did that, they got into trouble.
In the end the consumer alone must accept achrayus on what he brings in his house.
Check the back of any grocery repackaging meats and you'll wonder what is going on there and who knows if someone brought something "unauthorized" in.

154

 Sep 13, 2006 at 09:37 PM Anonymous Says:

I am tird of this nonsense already.

Just one more point:

Now that they have the New York State govt agency involved, it will be interesting to see what the slimy, slick, unethical, dishonest politicians do to either cover up or reveal the truth behind this.

Oy vey, that we have reached the nadir in this relgion where scummy, slimy , lowlife politicians will inform us if the chickens were treif.

Is this religion totally out of hand???????????????

155

 Sep 13, 2006 at 08:29 PM Shiduchim Crisis Says:

I think a Baal Choiv too. Don't we all hope a Baal Tshuva soon.

156

 Sep 13, 2006 at 07:52 PM Anonymous Says:

I would hate to see this blog go. As a retired person, this keeps me busy the whole day. My wife is wondering why I am in such a good mood the whole day, and I answer her, vos iz neias!!

157

 Sep 13, 2006 at 07:37 PM LITVISHER ROV Says:

ALSO RE CHODOSH - LET'S NOT
FORGET THAT THE BACH QUOTES 2
BAALEI TOSFOS- THE RI AND RAV
COHEN WHO HOLD SHEL GOY IN
CHUL IS MUTTAR. GRANTED THE ROSH
ARGUES, BUT WE ASHKENAZIM FOLLOW
SHITTAS TOSFOS MUCH OF THE TIME!

ALSO DEPENDING ON HOW YASHAN IT IS
THERE ARE TOLAIM PROBLEMS, ALTHOUGH
I DONT KNOW IF ITS MUCHZAK.

158

 Sep 13, 2006 at 07:20 PM Anonymous Says:

mf is also all taiva baal avira baal yairoeh and baal yimotze

159

 Sep 13, 2006 at 07:08 PM gaon Says:

TO ANON. 10:03 AM -"CHODOSH" CONCERN.

I don't know which 99% rishonim u are reffering to. (min h'torah) I see u need clarification on this topic:

there are 2 sheilos involved -
1)chodosh "chutz l'eretz" ;which a lot of rishonim hold is a rabonon (more than 1% incl. the BHA"G Trumas H'deshen bshem OHR Zeruah.. see shu"t mishknos yaakov yo'd ch.67), but to most opinions it's mh'torah although 'NOT 99%'
2) chodosh 'shel akum'(non-jew) which according to the b'ach is muter all the way l'katchilah, which most achronim argue,
BUT on the case if it's both: 1] chu"l. 2] and shel akum - most agree it's only a rabonon (see aruch h'shulchan yo"d ch. 293;13 mishknos yaakov )
by the way >4 all litvishah- yeshivisheh< the mishknos yaakov brings a l'heter from R' chaim m'volzin and his brother R' zalman zt"l (p. 261)

However there's is a legitimate heter n' strong mesorah going back to the times of rishonim (mishkn"y p. 262, see m'kor chaim (nesivos)-shem chodash. even according to mishneh brurah it's only a CHUMRAH but not the minhag)

And chassidim have a kabalah from the BASH"T the psak in heaven is like the b'ach (see Avnei Neizer cho'm; ch. 115)

However does it come at all in to the picture of VADEI NEVEILEH"!!!

not to forget 'TELOYIM'(worms)

b'mechilas kvod: YOU NEED GET YOUR PRORITY AND BASICS STRAIGHTEND OUT!!!

160

 Sep 13, 2006 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Does anyone have anymore lashon harra to add I'm getting bored of the old stuff and the made up stuff.

161

 Sep 13, 2006 at 06:07 PM Anonymous Says:

the velover is a great hasgocho on water

if there is an ou

162

 Sep 13, 2006 at 06:05 PM Anonymous Says:

While i am not a poisek. It's not up to the person who ate the treifa meat to be moichel MF on eating treif only and the fraud of the difference in price of kosher and not kosher meat.

163

 Sep 13, 2006 at 06:02 PM Anonymous Says:

the volovover rov does not give any hechsheirm on meat- therefore he did not need to attend.

(his brother the neurbarter gives all the meat stuff.)

164

 Sep 13, 2006 at 06:00 PM Chavrea Dechaveria Says:

to anon 5:54

It was NOT soy! Your aunt bertha needs a new hearing aid (or possibly, only a new battery...)

The women on the bus were discussing that this post has almost 1,000 comments and that teh New York times got paid cash by the mob not to interfer with mr. finkels fish store....

oops, err... butcher, i mean!

165

 Sep 13, 2006 at 05:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Hey, can we stop the bickering here? Mr. VOS IZ NEIAS, can we keep this blog for updates, news, etc. I come here every so often to search for updates and I have to go through 900+ posts of which contain no news, just plain Chassidic, Litvish, Yekish quarrels. It's annoying like hell...

166

 Sep 13, 2006 at 05:54 PM Anonymous Says:

to 4:39,,, heard from a reliable doctor,,,

My aunt bertha (who has a sinus problem) was sitting by the beauty parlor getting her hair done. Her friend Sophie walked in and told her that her son in the sweater business had another cousin whose Uncle happened to be passing by a subway station and overheard a blind man talking to someone he thought was Jewish about the whole meat issue. He said that there is no problem because he was selling soy !! (See where this is going?)

Let's stay with facts and avoid the "heard it from someone please"

167

 Sep 13, 2006 at 05:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Intresting . BELTZ ..SATMAR . KLUSENBURG . evreyone was thear

168

 Sep 13, 2006 at 05:52 PM Anonymous Says:

To 4:03

If you can so easily be moichel someone who was machti es harabim on such a grand scale, then I hate to say it, but something has to wrong with your approach to yiddishkeit. I personally have been sick over this story and I do not live in monsey.

169

 Sep 13, 2006 at 05:50 PM Anonymous Says:

i heard the only RUV BAL MACSHR that did not show up was the VELOVER ? any reason ??

170

 Sep 13, 2006 at 05:48 PM Anonymous Says:

When someone speaks LH or when he steals - HE personally does an aveiro. True, LH usually involves more than just the person talking and the people listening, but they have the choice to cover the ears etc.

MF is a "MACHATEE ESS HORABBIM" can you get that straight????

He made thousands, yes I repeat "THOUSANDS" of people from Rockland County and all over the WORLD to eat treif rachmono litzlon!!

Don't be such a frummak and be him moichel. This is not as simple as you would want.

To keep back from talking LH for an individual is much harder than for a 'frum, educated, trustable person' to refrain from causing so many people to eat treif.

MF is a GANEV (stole money from everyone by charging kosher price for treif)
MF is a LIER (he lied to all his customers - said that everything is ok with the meat when he knew it wasn't etc.)

What make you think that we have to be him 'moichel'

I'm afraid that you are wrong.

171

 Sep 13, 2006 at 05:43 PM english teacher Says:

"many rabunim want to bend saleing non packeged "

what pushes this guy to write?

172

 Sep 13, 2006 at 05:36 PM Anonymous Says:

from HURAV SHLOMA YISREILI
update on the big ASIVA just ended 4.30 in KHAL CHASDIDIM attendet by over 60 kahrush org and balei macshirim CRC. OU. STAR K .. K CUF . VAD FLATBUSH ..VAD FIVE TOWNES .. and many more .many rabunim want to bend saleing non packeged food from the suppleir .many rabunim dont want this because this gona put supermarkets out of buisnes . HACHLUTA a BAKUSHA only (a request)not to buy meat at supermarkets that buy unpackaged and do the packging by themself .. lets hope that this gona help a little bit to contrul the situation SY

173

 Sep 13, 2006 at 05:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Can somebody post who in BP was cleared?

174

 Sep 13, 2006 at 04:39 PM Anonymous Says:

i heard from a reliable doctor in the know who davens by r' frankel that MF has a gambling issue.

is there taka any emes to this?

175

 Sep 13, 2006 at 04:35 PM Anonymous Says:

4:03
I hear you.
the loshon hora part I beg to differ..roiv of this blog has no loshon hora I wont say that there is no L.H. at all there definitaly is a shemetz here and there but as I read them I coverd me ears.

This blog was very informative and gave us an oppertunity to talk about things we otherwise would have talked about in shul. At least davening was quieter.

Dont make assumptions about everyone with taxes talk for yourself.
I don't know anyone who steals in order to give tzdaka.
Most people who get plaques are miochul the honor they usually are pushed into it by the yeshivos who want others to give too.
So far the most L.H. I have seen about a rabim is from your post??

176

 Sep 13, 2006 at 04:24 PM Anonymous Says:

To 4:03 PM

Just a question...How can you be moichel someone who neither requests nor desires to be forgiven?

177

 Sep 13, 2006 at 04:03 PM The Observant Jew Says:

To the people who ask how MF could do what he did, to Whom was he davening, how could he do this if he was erlich, etc., I have a question which you might want to think about as Rosh HaShana approaches.

Are we all that different? HaShem says don't speak Lashon Hara - we badmouth others, then post it here on Vos iz Neias and other places to help others join in our chet.

HaShem says don't steal. We cheat on our taxes and say "Gezel Akum is mutar." OK, but what about midvar sheker tirchak? OK, that's an Eitzah only. Well, then what about not defiling HaShem's name which is Emes?

When we cheat others, we use that money to give tzedaka and buy ourselves honor. And this isn't new, the Maharsha complained about it in his times!

But, aren't we frum? Who are we davening to? How can we get everyone involved?

I have pity on MF and daven that HaShem should allow him to do Teshuva. I am moichel him, and the fellow who sold me treif food in Cleveland 15 years ago. Even if they don't deserve it, and I never hurt them, (on the contrary, I supported them!) I am still moichel.

On Yom Kippur, when HaShem is deciding my fate and says, "Why should I forgive you? How could you do those things you did? How could you rebel like that when I have done nothing but take care of you?!" I will say, Ribono Shel Olam, I have no excuse, and I am sorry. But, I was moichel someone who didn't deserve it, and You certainly must be more merciful than a human.

178

 Sep 13, 2006 at 03:23 PM gaon Says:

ann 3.00

(1 since when is 'comunity pinkus' a source.
(if i would print it and bind it n' call 'sefer' is it auotmatic a "source"
of course 'someone' printed it, at somtime somwhere even 100 yrs. ago, it still needs backup like a godal document etc. -listen u ARE dealing with a MAJOR story of 400 + yrs ago

2) who's globel yeshiva

3)name the sforim and m"m

179

 Sep 13, 2006 at 03:11 PM Anonymous Says:

re: anon 12:08
"the bal machshir has very high standards and is known in the industry to thank you if you see a possible flaw."

so netzach also has the nirbater hechsher - why can u rely on him in meal mart + not in netzach?

BTW
there is a new poster from the rabbonim all over BP clearing netach + other local bp

180

 Sep 13, 2006 at 03:09 PM Anonymous Says:

what is the story with all the supermarkets that repackage meats such as Glatt Mart and Moishes in flatbush.

181

 Sep 13, 2006 at 03:03 PM Anonymous Says:

to GAON 4:29,

BARUCH SHEKAVNTU, to THE words of 'SATMER RUV'ZTK"L

So I heard from a mekor neemon that he said so about the story of the megale amikis
AND he mentioned the above reason u said,(with the same hesber) therfore he refused to beleive the whole story ever hapend

182

 Sep 13, 2006 at 03:00 PM Anonymous Says:

global yeshiva has the sources for this story, if you want to check it out. it was brought down in two seforim. also, if i'm not mistaken, it was also in the Pinkus of the community.

183

 Sep 13, 2006 at 03:00 PM Anonymous Says:

any news on todays meeting at kahal Chasidim?

184

 Sep 13, 2006 at 02:49 PM gaon Says:

ann 1.47
YES I agree that not everything, n' everytime is there an happy ending of 'RUACH H'KODESH' meaningly that the m'galeh amukos knew every thing that went on in his city (even there ARE stories like that - with a m'kor see h'kdomeh of sefer on torah the story with ta'z etc. heard from yeshuas yaakov, belzer rav etc.)

BUT there r' different categotreis of 'ruach hakodesh' 'n this 2 be 'MARGISH' 'machules asuros' is not even in the category of any kind of so- called 'ruach hakodesh'

Which even tzadikim from the previous genr. were margish (like r' baruch ber of kaminetz, r'Alconon wasserman z'l etc.)

which stems from their z'hirus v'kdushahs h'torah-not any hidden forces of sheilos chlomos,ruachos etc.

However, this should have been the simplest of simple for the mekubal n'godel hador (400 yrs ago!)to figure out!!

so it still needs a m'kor neemon

185

 Sep 13, 2006 at 02:07 PM Anonymous Says:

TO ANON @ 1:47

Because he was all of that makes this story still so hard for me to digest. How in the world could he? who was he davening to? What was his rationalization for this? is he saying anything?
I can understand that money does alot, but to this extent? to include everyone in his "chet"??
I speak to non religious people they are dumbfounded by this as well.
This is in no way a sectarian issue Rav B. is not a litvak and even if he was it makes no difference.
I am still a little numb to this story even after I kasherd my pots for three hours

186

 Sep 13, 2006 at 01:47 PM Anonymous Says:

There is a reliable mekor to the story in Krakow;
I'm still trying to get the details...
I'll iy"h post when I have it.

By the way - the Megallay Amukos knew that some terrible sins are being done in his city. There were many horrific tzorras in town. The holy tzaddik was very anguished the he could not figure out the problem:
Many times he decreed fasts - He fasted, the entire Krakow fasted, they had a Yom Teffilah numerous times, the gave huge sums of tzeddakah, yet from up above it was not clarified to the Megallay Amukos. The Satan worked overtime to hide this great sin from the open eyes of this great tzaddik!

And again:
The two butchers 700 years ago were un-learned suffering yesomim!
The moment that they found out the extent of their sin, the confessed!
...where....
MF is from a Yichessdik family; Daf Hayomi Maggid Shiur!, a Baal Tefilah Yomim Noroim, a Baal Tokeia, a Baal Koireh, and a Baal Darshan; And still this Machatee Ess Horabbim has a hard time confessing!!!
It must be the difference in the 'doirrois' that happened 700 years ago...

187

 Sep 13, 2006 at 01:36 PM Anonymous Says:

to 1:18


There ARE establishments that are being investigated at this time, but are all “innocent until proven guilty”.

even if there is a credible charge.

not from the mouth/s of admitted liars.

lynch mobs

188

 Sep 13, 2006 at 01:29 PM Anonymous Says:

to:1:18 PM

Ally Processing / Meal Mart. They have been checked out and are 100% Kosher.

Alle Processing

189

 Sep 13, 2006 at 01:18 PM Anonymous Says:

UPDATE FROM:

There is a letter that is being circulated at this time amongst the Monsey Rabbonim for their signatures.
The letter will I”H be published later today, but the Rabbonim asked to notify everyone they should know ahead of time what it says.

The letter basically says that due to the fact that this issue does not only involve Monsey but is a WORLDWIDE issue, (due to the fact that people had bought meats at Shevach and travelled across the world with it; & are now Kasher their kitchens) a major investigation is taking place.
There are many rumors being spread-ed around the Frum communities regarding the Kashruth at various food establishments. This is concerning the Rabbonim. They have advised the following:

Every food establishment that currently has a Hechsher is B’chezkas Kashruth to be 100% kosher. There ARE establishments that are being investigated at this time, but are all “innocent until proven guilty”. For people to spread rumors isn't right, & is hurting peoples livelihoods.
If and when there are any establishments which turn out to be problematic, they will inform the Tzibbur. They will also inform the Tzibbur if any establishments are “rumored” to be problematic - and turn out to be 100% Kosher.
The first one on the list that the Rabbonim would like to publicize of having ZERO question of having Treifa meats is Ally Processing / Meal Mart. They have been checked out and are 100% Kosher.

190

 Sep 13, 2006 at 01:12 PM gaon Says:

ann 2.26
Well n'true to the point

BUT can anyone indentify or bring any M'KOR of what so-ever that whole story in Krakow ever occured,
To my knowledge there is no m'kor neman (root)that it ever happened.

PS n' I don't mean a 'story book' (a accurate m'kor- sefer etc.)

Personally, I don't beleive the story altogether -that the M'GALEH AMUKOS' with his kedushah was not 'MARGISH' the neveilus utreifes is far from, n' hard 2 believe.!!

if there is a m'kor - kol h'kovod! as long as there isn't a m'kor i refuse to believe.

191

 Sep 13, 2006 at 01:09 PM confused Says:

to:12:26 PM

roiv (the majority) was kosher.
this is the same rule relied upon at the big slaughterhouse that people in monsey still find reliable.
he just set it up the same way in the store.
he made a profit on it just as every rav hamachshir/l does.

lately he didn't have a roiv, so he closed up.

by the way, in issur veheter there is roiv.

not so when it comes to money.

many people are hanging up this misguided soul.
others have questionable money ethics, rabbis are not excluded.

there is a rumor that a rabbi in monsey is very active, in this, so called investigation, so that he can bury a different rabbi.
we all / some of us, believe it.

just shows you what status the rabbis really have.
what do you want from the butchers that also learn a daf in chulin etc?.

192

 Sep 13, 2006 at 01:07 PM Yachtchoo Says:

This is what I would call
"AVEIRO GORRERES AVEIRO"
this blog should be called the
AVEIRO BLOG!!!

193

 Sep 13, 2006 at 12:28 PM gaon Says:

ANN. 5.34 (eruv rav)
1)ANTWERP - incl. metro area has a population 1,225,000

2)u didn't answer about the rest: Jerusalem,Bnei Brak (tel- aviv),pre-war WARSAW, (as written by the rabonnim there (see divrei menachem-kasher)LODZ,ADDESA (see sh'ut divrei malkiel of lomza vol 4 ch. 3) - all were 'MECHALLEL SHABBOS' acording 2 ur kup
n' so was the 'CHAZON ISH' R' CHAIM OZER, where they were matir an eiruv in PARIS (ACHIEZER VOL. 4 -with much more 'kullas' than BP)
3) From all the above BP is the most MEHUDER 1] it has 3 mechitzos plus (AND surrounded with water)which creates a reshus h'yachid. 2]the tzuras h'pesach is made in a way that it's 'oimed merubah al h'puritz'

So don't show your am h'ratzes by critisizing hasidim, ADERABAH ask your ROSH YESHIVAH: 'WHY IN THE WORLD IS IT ASER'??!!
PS he woudn't know cause he never learned (or opened) hl' eiruvin (or even meschet eiruvin)?!

HOWEVER (if u comprehended all the above) to compare it - to 'vadei tarfus un'velah' that's 'gaonisheh' AM H'RATZES!!!

194

 Sep 13, 2006 at 12:26 PM Anonymous Says:

To "tg" at 10:45:

If you are familliar with the story in Cracow, you should also know that in that story, the 2 Katzovim were ignorant people who didn't know the severity of what they're doing. It was only when one of them overheard his son in law learning about neveilah and treifa, that he began to realize what he did, and then "on his own" he went to the Megale Amukos to ask for a Teshuvah.
Sadly, in the incident of MF, you're talking about a very learned person who gave a daily Daf Hayomi Shiur!, was a Baal Tefilah Yomim Noroim, a Baal Tokeia, a Baal Koireh, I just wonder what went through his mind when he was learning Maseches Chulin, ואלו טרפות etc.
He was Maachil Neveilas for more than 10 years, and it was only when he was caught that all this came out.
These facts make this case so much more scary.
Who could you believe after such a story?

195

 Sep 13, 2006 at 12:12 PM Anonymous Says:

the entire khal chasidim metting is being broadcastlive at www.

196

 Sep 13, 2006 at 12:08 PM Anonymous Says:

to:11:56 AM

you are wrong.
meal mart is excellent because the people in charge of the business end care a lot.
they see them selves answering to the one and only one day.

it might be the same at the other places.

the bal machshir has very high standards and is known in the industry to thank you if you see a possible flaw.

if you know something let him know.
for my sake .
for your sake.
for everybody's sake.

197

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:56 AM Anonymous Says:

re: heimishe yid! the big maven in the meat industry

"to anon 11:31
1)I'm in retail not wholsale,
2)I only eat meal mart beacuase i know the baal machsur very well"

- if u eat from meal mart because u rely on the baal machschir, so the same baal machshir is giving a hechsher to netzach for the last 9 months. please dont be such a baby - if u want to put a face put it on right!

198

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:51 AM Anonymous Says:

all meat & poultry distibuters will attent ..they are bringing along all ducoments to look in to.. when this scandel started

199

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:50 AM Anonymous Says:

I hope they do something to prevent future sellings of treifa meat. How about not letting grocery stores sell meat. If you want meat or chicken go to the butcher store where there should be a mashgiach ALL the time

200

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:43 AM Anonymous Says:

The Standards Committee of the Association of Kashrus Organizations and the Brooklyn-based Hisachdus Harabonim (Central Rabbinical Congress) are the ones holding the meeting to discuss the greater kashrut ramifications this incident has brought to light.

201

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:41 AM Anonymous Says:

What do you have against the owner of the store and Rabbanim to say that they should be arrested? In my opinion, the only person who should be severely punished is the one and only M.F.

202

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:41 AM Anonymous Says:

at the meeting there will be local rabbis and kashrut organizations who are looking into which butcher shops in the Brooklyn neighborhoods have purchased meats and chickens directly from Shevach or from the same distributor.

203

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:37 AM Anonymous Says:

just contact HRAV GURNISH SHLIT"A who give hasguchas ... he told me he is going to this meeting at KHAL CHASIDIM in BP ..the problem is he said that the STATE dept of AGRI.will be at the meeting the invited themself

204

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:29 AM Anonymous Says:

is anyone from here invited, so he could report back from this so-called meeting, from this so-called Ra-Bunim?

205

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:27 AM Anonymous Says:

finkel sr"y started his store with buying kosher from companys like alle, rubashkin, vineland kj etc. etc
he had drivers stealing from their companys, and selling to him for a SHIBUSH and the rest, OR the BULK of his meat, he bought in the goyishe meat market treife neveile, cheilev. dam, etc etc
he had tongues when even meal mart ran out of inventory. cuz he had it......unfortunatly
its true now this point that baterer ruv said he knew that this finkel is a bum, 1st off, finkel wasnt under his hashgacha he raised the alarm, to the locals all he knew that finkel was a fumfenyak, nobody dreamt in their wildest imaginations that he is a rushe merishe like it came out now if u ask glauber or any1 that dealt with him, they would tell u, that he was a thief, a simple thief with a nice punim that doesnt take away nuthin from the baterer ruv

206

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:19 AM Anonymous Says:

Khal Chasidim BORO PARK ?????

207

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:18 AM Jacob Says:

who are they going to have the meeting with, is Moshe Finkel called to that meeting?

208

 Sep 13, 2006 at 11:00 AM Anonymous Says:

For your Knowledge a big Meeting will be held this morning 11.30 at KHAL CHASIDIM attending all rabonim org.and hundreds of private rabonim Hisachdus Harabunim the sponser attending OU .K lubawitsh and many more very intresting Meeting .. evrybody is welcome

209

 Sep 13, 2006 at 10:45 AM TG Says:

I’d like to preface my comment by stating that I am not from Monsey, don’t know any of the characters that have been mentioned in association with this incident, and certainly hope to have never partaken of this food.
What I have noted from reading a portion of this blog, to our (the greater Jewish community) grave consternation, is the seemingly endless finger-pointing and unnecessary libel, being put forth by individuals.
To attack individual’s’ religious proclivities, and to use this incident as a forum for community and individual bashing is most absurd, given that this incident does not exist in a historical vacuum, rather it has precedents and a history richer then we’d like to acknowledge.
The sad byproduct of this grievous occurrence is that people are blaming the Rav, the community and even the Litvak/Hassidic schism. If one were to research similar incidents in Jewish History, they would note the eerily similar incident-taking place in the 17th Century, in Krakow, when the Rav of the city was Rav Noson Nota Shapira, commonly referred to as the Migaleh Amukos.
Clearly there is a precedent for terrible greed to overcome an individual, and it need not reflect upon the reliability/capabilities/competence of the Rav, the community, and certainly not the Litvak/Hassidic schism, given that Hassidim were not formally in place at this point in history.

210

 Sep 13, 2006 at 10:38 AM Anonymous Says:

why are you people drifting away from the main topic ,airav, chodosh, chasidash, litvash. the main point is "TREIFA MEAT". Pleas lets not forget so fast and just change the topic.

211

 Sep 13, 2006 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Just check for worms found in Yoshen flour and pasta, ask any of the companies that supply flour to the local stores. Better to eat CHODOSH which has a heter from some poskim then to eat worms.

Check with your local Rabbi.

212

 Sep 13, 2006 at 10:03 AM Anonymous Says:

Not true, CHODOSH is usor *min ha-torah* acording 99% of rishonim & achronim (including Shu"a HaRav and Mishna Berurah).

The reaso they used to be meikil is because if not ppl would go around STARVING! It would've been PIKUACH NEFESH.

Today with susch an abundance of shefa, we all could easily affrd to be nizhar in the ISSUR D'OREISA o CHODOSH.

In the ast they also added a hetter of Sofeik, TODAY THERE IS NO SAFEIK ON CERTAIN GRAINS, THEY ARE VADAI CHODOSH!

It's worse then what happened in Monsey, since here we are close to being called a MEIZID, and POREIK OL MITZVA rch"l !

213

 Sep 13, 2006 at 09:22 AM Anonymous Says:

to:1:22 AM

the prominent poisek denies your story.

from checking the hard facts, it appears that rabbi "o" is even bigger than we all thought.
the great poskim of the world think highly of him
.
he is also not a liar or hypocrite.


thanks for the motivation.

214

 Sep 13, 2006 at 05:34 AM Anonymous Says:

Excuse me calling Antwerp mechallel Shabbos. Get your facts straight!!!! Greater Antwerp by the biggest estimates has less than 500000 people period.

215

 Sep 13, 2006 at 03:08 AM Anonymous Says:

now we know why Reb Mottelle Viznitzer doesn't eat fleishigs

216

 Sep 13, 2006 at 03:02 AM Anonymous Says:

who is so dumb to believe in low-sodium salt? that's like low-hydrogen water

217

 Sep 13, 2006 at 02:19 AM Anonymous Says:

"I would note ... that Rav Moshe writes that someone who relies on eid echod and ends up eating something not Kosher is an oness — see Igros Moshe Orach Chaim Aleph, siman nun-gimmel. Clearly according to the Ramchal, Abarbanel, and apparently according to many Rishonim and Acharonim, there is no timtum haleiv in such a circumstance."

So, er, what happened to the children of Krakow? Weren't they in the same boat?

218

 Sep 13, 2006 at 01:22 AM Anonymous Says:

To anon at 1214 am
Of course there was a halacha issue but lets get our facts staight rabbi a. got thrown out of toronto by a prominent poisek in our times so now you tell me whos right? and no i am not proud of having a GANIV as a rov in my community

219

 Sep 13, 2006 at 12:14 AM Anonymous Says:

to 1:31 pm

the case ther was ahalacha issue .
at what point is money considered belonging to the poor.
when you pledge?
when you give it to a gabbai?
or when the poor people have it.?
rabbi "o" was the gabbai f0r m.r.
does that meaan the money in the charity acct designated by m.r. is it considered belonging to the poor or is it still m.r. s'
rabbi "o" mantained that he represents the poor .
the great poskom in e.y. agreed.
it was a real halacha question.
and rabbi "o" should briliance. real briliance as only a great talmid chacham can.
monsey is lucky to have such a talmid chacham that was meshamash gedolei yisroel, in their midst.
hk"bh was makdin refuah before the maka.
ksiva vachasima tova.

220

 Sep 13, 2006 at 12:11 AM Rabbi A Says:

anon
11:11

The rabbonim are not trying to sweep anything under the carpet as the truth will come out one way or another???

what?

If you ask any rav that gives a hechsher on meats today, if his chicken and meats are 100% kosher, they will say, Sure it is 100%!

guess what if you would ask rabbi B. a day before all this happened, if his meat is 100% he would say YES! 100% he would have even eatn that meat in front of you to convince you it's kosher.

How are we to trust any Hechsher for meats????

221

 Sep 13, 2006 at 12:05 AM Anonymous Says:

to:11:50 PM

For the better part of the today, the Nirbater Rav and a meshuggener well-known for making false accusations against hasgachos were at Netzach. They went through what's there and reviewed records. They gave the place an absolutely clean bill of health: There is not problem there and there is no whiff of a problem in the past.


a meshuggener well-known for making false accusations.



ahrur makaeh reaihu baseser ,
vamar kal ham ,
amen.

222

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:59 PM Anonymous Says:

I think the best thing to do, is to mention just the Kosher outlets. It seems they are the me-oot.

223

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:53 PM heimishe yid Says:

to anon 11:31

1)I'm in retail not wholsale,
2)I only eat meal mart beacuase i know the baal machsur very well
3)I know the owner from nezach do you?

224

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:50 PM Anonymous Says:

anyone who believes everything he reads here must be very confused, becuase every one of the reliable sources, people in teh industry, etc. seem to contradict someone else.

Happens to be that Netzach's hashgachah has been teh same for years (though most people that buy there trust the Kreitenbergs far more than they do the "Rav" hamachsir, upon whom they would never rely).

For the better part of the today, the Nirbater Rav and a meshuggener well-known for making false accusations against hasgachos were at Netzach. They went through what's there and reviewed records. They gave the place an absolutely clean bill of health: There is not problem there and there is no whiff of a problem in the past.

Don't trust me, call teh Nirbater yourself!

225

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Sometimes when there is a very serious issue; something that can literally take us off our minds, and take us all into a depression chas vesholom, (like this Treifa issue hashem yirachem) we somehow go off track and slowly change the subject, just so we don't delve too much into our tzorras...

226

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:38 PM YTC Says:

Litvish vs Chassidish is no fight at all!

It’s just good enough for the yetzer horah to keep us busy with junk.

There are so many different Chassidim with different shittos. There are even different shittos within individual Chassidim.

I think that the Lutvaks today are just as if there would be one more type of Chassidus.

The Lutvaks today behave much more like Chassidim than in the past. You don’t have to admit it, but I am studying this for a while and it keeps on getting clearer and clearer.

227

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Heimeshe Yid you sound like you work for Alle or maybe International. Why you cant fargin someone who doesn'y buy from the regular 'Hiemishe' (oops mafia) sources, is beyond me.
You say he is not heimish. Please define heimish, bekeshe, shtreimel etc???! Has the world come to this, that a heimeshe person has to where a shtriemel?
Perhaps he didnt give you your 15% off that you want to burn his place down.
Give us all a break! You have a one track agenda through out this whole long blog, to push Alle & International meats as if they have no problems.
If there is an onging investigation into Netzach we will here from them, Not you.
Go to sleep!

228

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:26 PM Mr.ChickenWing Says:

Do you have GUYS good news?
Goldberg's grocery was selling treiff chickens ?????? Some bad blah blah about Netzach meat store?
Anything alse?

229

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:25 PM Anonymous Says:

ABOUT NETZACH,
heard, that it's all coming out of revenge from a certain rav h'machshir, (r' sh...l from monsey) who was thrown out by netzach's baal machshir the 'nirbater' at empire ,

can anyone confirm or shed some light atleast on the first part

230

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:11 PM Anonymous Says:

so why have the rabonim yet to come out against Netzach now with the whole scandel?

I am sure at this point in the game the rabbonim are not trying to sweep anything under the carpet as the truth will come out one way or another as everyone out there is on the look out

231

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:04 PM heimishe yid Says:

BEFORE I START, I AM IN THE MEAT INDUSTRY, AND EVERY THING HERE ABOUT NEZACH IS A TRUE AS IT CAN BE, THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT HE SOLD MEAT THAT WAS NOT KOSHER OR AT LEAST NON GLATT

HERE ARE SOME FACTS NOT ASSUMPTIONS:
nezach is a very large distributor sells to a lot of caterers and buthchers, he has somekinds of meat that he packes himself like burgers etc. nobody knows for sure where he gets his meat, he does not buy from rubaskin, or international, he buys a little from meal mart, but only about 25% from what he sells, and the reason why stores buy from him is because his prices are unbeatble, he is cheaper then anyone else, for exemple kosher delight buyes from nezach (not everything)the reason why they (and a lot of other stores) buy from nezach and not from the company direct is because he is cheaper, and some of meat tastes better, now meal mart knew for years that he only buys a very small percentage from him, and he is not buying from any other heimishe meat, but he has a lot of big customers in new york and also in carlifornia, people do not know this but his main business is not from the store on 16th ave,(fyi: he has a huge plant in new jersey god only knows what is going on there) a few years ago there has been some investigation on him but none of the rabunim wanted to come out against him without proof, he is not even a heimishe guy, and almost every buthcher and store in borough park and flatbush bought meat from him at some point or still buys. i always knew that this will come out.

p.s. do not ask why didn't you say anything before now, because i did and it fell of deaf ears, not one rav in bp cared to follow up on him, that was about five years ago.

his place should be burned down, like atzei asheiro.

232

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:00 PM Anonymous Says:

please someone fill us in on the latest with Netzach, as there was a meeting 9f Rabbonim there today. Anyone with info please post

233

 Sep 12, 2006 at 10:37 PM Anonymous Says:

*****Breaking News******

Kol Koreh’s in Monsey
Due to the tragic Treif meat scandal, leading Rabbonim have declared a Yom Taanis this coming Sunday. [The Rabbonim are also trying to get the local stores to close as well.] There are many different Gezeiros being declared by various Rabbonim on their Mispallilim for Sunday.

234

 Sep 12, 2006 at 10:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Tatah in himmel: How much further is this going to go??How many homes will have to have their hearts shattered, and throw out their dishes as well???
How many people are walking around depressed, knowing that rch’l they have eaten Treif, and fed their pour innocent children treif?
Let’s all be mispalel that this story has a happy ending (if its possible). And hope that moshiach will come soon.

235

 Sep 12, 2006 at 10:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Attention everyone who is making this a Litvishe vs Chasidesh issue. Why??

I am a litvishe and have a lot of respect for the chasideshe olam. I am embarrassed to read some of the above comments.

Maybe I am a bit uneducated and someone else can answer. Is there really a difference whether some people use the eiruv or not? Does yoshon really make a difference? Don't we say Eilu V'Eilu divrei elokim chaim? As long as I listen to my Rov isn't that the important thing that counts?

236

 Sep 12, 2006 at 09:45 PM gaon Says:

ann 6:24 dear chodosh,
there goes another one that doesn't know his prority in yidishkeit
YES there is an inyun lhachmir on chodosh (see sh.urach harav ch. 489;29-30)BUT the mesorah all doros yidden were soimech on the b'ach (or roiv)and ate 'chodosh shel akum'(see shem chodosh mplutzk,sh'ut mishknos yaakov (yo'd)- a litvak; talmid muvhak lr' chaim volozhin,mishnah brurah ch.489, at most it's a rabonon (lrishonim). however does it come in to the picture when you r discussing 'nevailus utreifis'.
it shows how people (rabonim)can't get the simple 'basics' in kashrus n' yidishkeit straight. busy with 'chumras' when-
The whole procedure and kasahrus system is not KOSHER there isn't a better case of 'nogius' than that the rav h'machshir gets paid - by the owner how can you trust it. The mesorah in europe on kashrus was, the rav of the kehillah who was paid by the khillah-not by the owner, he the rav was total responsible
AT most, it shoudn be like the system in e. yisrael; b'datz, r' landau, etc, that the mashgiachIM get paid by the org.- not through the owner

237

 Sep 12, 2006 at 09:44 PM Moshe Sofer Says:

Chodosh Ossur Min Hatorah

238

 Sep 12, 2006 at 09:43 PM Lucky Wolf Says:

i was in Hatzlacha today, the place is empty, the worker there said that its never this quite there. he told me all the stuff about the mob is bubbeh maysehs. he also told me that there was to be a protest in front of finkels house. i went there but maybe i was a little early cause there was only a few people there at the time. i expected a nicer house with all those treifeh chickens

239

 Sep 12, 2006 at 08:27 PM Anonymous Says:

I would note — not that it removes the horror of what transpired or the sense of violation, but because it can help people deal with some of their concerns — that Rav Moshe writes that someone who relies on eid echod and ends up eating something not Kosher is an oness — see Igros Moshe Orach Chaim Aleph, siman nun-gimmel. Clearly according to the Ramchal, Abarbanel, and apparently according to many Rishonim and Acharonim, there is no timtum haleiv in such a circumstance.

240

 Sep 12, 2006 at 08:19 PM Anonymous Says:

MAYBE IT'S TIME TO CHECK THE HEARTS AND BRAINS OF THE YOU KNOW WHOS, WHO ARE SITTING SILENTLY WHILE WE KILL OURSELVES WITH SUPPORT ISSUES, INSTEAD OF ONLY CHECKING THE CHICKENS AND BEEF INSIDES!

241

 Sep 12, 2006 at 08:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Thanks Yachtchoo at 7:22:

We all need the comic relief!

Now that you're so creative, what do you suggest we really do to get us out of the pressure grind of "keeping up" with the LITVISH AND CHASSIDISH knockers that leads us ALL to doing what we shouldn't be doing?

242

 Sep 12, 2006 at 07:37 PM Anonymous Says:

THIS CASE IS CLOSED PLEASE REMOVE THIS COMMENTS. THE COMMENTS HAS TOO MANY TALK.

PLEASE CLOSED THIS CASE THANK YOU

IT IS OVER NOW IT TIME FOR HIM AND BAIS DEN TO TALK

IT NOT FOR PUBLIC ANYMORE

THANK YOU AGAIN

243

 Sep 12, 2006 at 07:30 PM dave Says:

ich gleib shon gornisht, in ich glaub shon altzding.

244

 Sep 12, 2006 at 07:22 PM Yachtchoo Says:

Roll up your sleeves! Everyone!

Plant some vegetables & fruits in your garden or on your deck. You can even do it in your dinning room, just make sure it gets enough sun!
(It really is not so complicated and you will enjoy it too!)

Buy some chickens and if you must have meat, get yourself a cow and a 'lemele'!
That covers your eggs and milk as well.


It'll keep you all busy, frum, ehrilch and definitely off the internet! (Blog)

...and when Shabbos comes around, you'll be so exhausted that you won't even have koach to carry w/ or w/o an 'eiruv'

...talking LH to the cows aint such a big aveiro either.

245

 Sep 12, 2006 at 07:03 PM Makpid on T'Loeem Says:

I spoke to the owner of one of the bakeries selling cookies, and he told me that he used to sell Yoshon but he stoped because the flour was extremely wormy!

246

 Sep 12, 2006 at 06:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Thousand of yiden eating CHODOSH for 8 months every year is an equal aveira!

Wherer are the baalei machshir? It used to be EXTREMELY hard to be makpid on yoshon, but today not to be makpid - is a shame.

Moreso I blame the baalei machshir for not providing hashgacha on yoshon, it wouldn't increase their work/cost but would be a real step forward in kashrus

6:22 PM
Just check for worms found in Yoshen flour better to eat CHODOSH.
Check with your local Rabbi.

247

 Sep 12, 2006 at 06:30 PM Anonymous Says:

re anon 5:23 6:22 - shame on you to bring up these silly discussions - you know that on both issues there r proper heteirim "v'ein kahn mekoimoi l'harich' please stop with this BS - Please!

248

 Sep 12, 2006 at 06:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Thousand of yiden eating CHODOSH for 8 months every year is an equal aveira!

Wherer are the baalei machshir? It used to be EXTREMELY hard to be makpid on yoshon, but today not to be makpid - is a shame.

Moreso I blame the baalei machshir for not providing hashgacha on yoshon, it wouldn't increase their work/cost but would be a real step forward in kashrus

249

 Sep 12, 2006 at 06:21 PM Anonymous Says:

anonn 5:23
for your knowledge, the EIRUV (BP)according to the rabonnim hamtirim (which incl. rav tuvia goldstein zt'l talmid chuver lr' moshe)is mutar accordance to r' moshe ('cause the fact that there r 3 mechitzos surrounding bklyn),even if not, there r lot of poiskim to be soimech on, not every thing is halcha cr' moshe. PS the 'teivah' of EIRUV nebech goes back hundred's of yrs all kehillos in europe that carried with their eruv that was with much more kullahs than you would think (ex. warsaw, see sh'ut
chdushei h'rim o.ch. ch. 4)
I'M beginning to think i know the reason this michshol happend through a litvisheh rav h'machshir, the bizoyen h'torah vhap'sak of all the rabonim hamatirim caused through the yated and the like (even so-called rosh yeshivos) calling the ones listening to there p'sak 'chillul shabbos' (as the litvak above) bmukem shyesh chillul sh...... there you find your own kovod ....

250

 Sep 12, 2006 at 06:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Attention Litvaks and Chassidim- we're all victims and equally pressured to keep up with the "hockers and knockers" in our respective circles!

Let's try to solve this together- not fight about it!

251

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:54 PM Anonymous Says:

braking news

rabonim decied to ban eating all meat.

252

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:50 PM Anonymous Says:

At least two major meetings of kashrus officials are planned for this week to discuss policies and procedures in the aftermath of last weeks’s scandal in Monsey where a prominent strictly kosher butcher (Shevach Meats) was caught selling non-kosher poultry as kosher. The Standards Committee of the Association of Kashrus Organizations(AKO) will use a previously scheduled meeting to discuss the recent developments. The Williamsburg, Brooklyn based Hisachdus Harabonim (Central Rabbinical Congress) has called an emergency meeting for Wednesday. Many of the rabbis reached by KosherToday said that the Monsey scandal was part of a broader problem of the repackaging of kosher foods by retailers without any rabbinical supervision. It has become common practice for grocers to buy kosher products in bulk and then repackage them in different sizes. One rabbi was bold enough to say: “How reliable is it to have a store employee repack goods and then stick a kosher label on it even if the store is owned and managed by an Orthodox Jew?” As was reported in KosherToday, the Monsey incident has revived calls by many rabbis for the requirement that stores that repackage kosher foods, particularly meat, retain a full-time mashgiach (rabbinical supervision). Meanwhile, rabbis in Monsey have been inundated with questions by local residents about koshering their kitchens and all dishes, utensils, and pots. There was a growing concern by some of the rabbis about the extent of the problem. Some industry officials say that Shevach may very well have sold the non-kosher poultry to caterers and even to customers outside the Monsey area. The investigation by rabbis and officials of the New York State Department of Agriculture continues

253

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:48 PM Anonymous Says:

rabbi sally

254

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:45 PM jewkid Says:

Nebech,I can understand it is not easy to be a litvak these days,

Why start with the old eiruv subject all over again, you think its not alloyed to carry, don't!!!!! no one asked you too.

Just some advice to all "yeshivishe tzadikim" ....when one of your own is "machil neville" ,stay in low gear!!!!!!!


And yes the story about problems in BP is all hoax....a "Chasidic guy" is flatly not up to a thing like this!!!!!!!!!

255

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:41 PM Anonymous Says:

An investigation into the sale of the nonkosher chicken by the state's Department of Agriculture and Markets is expected to becompleted today, anyone with info?

256

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Chaim,
Lets hear, Who fits your definition of a first rate rabbi?

257

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Rav Moishe said you can not make an EIRUV in Brooklyn.
What TAYVE is there to carry.But people in FUR HATS carry their TALYSIM MIT ATURA for no reason.

Now eating a juicey TREFUA piece of MEAT That TAYVA I understand.

Please wake up and be honest with your YIDDISHKIET

258

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:19 PM Anonymous Says:

To the 5:00 post "Monsey Rabbis"


Do you really think they trust him at this point?
I am sure they are checking and rechecking everything he says.
Why do you think we are all here on the blogg speculating about what's happening?
They are not talking till they have all the facts irrefutably straight.

259

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:16 PM Itche Meir Langershteken Says:

The stores in BP are saying there is no problem with their meat whatsoever. I am having hard time believing the lamb maises as they are being told.

260

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:15 PM Anonymous Says:

The results of the chickens that were quarantined and sent for testing were supposed to be released today to see if there was any salt on them. Does anyone have more info on this?

Also, I know MF and I have real doubts in my mind that he would do this. All this talk about the russian mob has at least given me hope that his name may be somewhat cleared.

But how or why would the russian mob be interested in his store? I can understand the mob going to the source (the slachthoise) and force them to repackage non kosher. There is more $$$ to be gained in that scenario. But Shevach is a small store, would the mob get involved over small $$$?

261

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:06 PM Anonymous Says:

re: netach, please remeber all that netzach was (once) a partner with mf, so he wants to bring him down as well. thats's all. i think we shall rely on rabbi teitelbaum, if u wanna check with r' zinner i would be even more sure about this assumption.

262

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:01 PM Anonymous Says:

re: suspicious trucks in bp - mf did all the packaging in his plant. if he redidtributed it further it probably looked already all kosher.

263

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:00 PM Anonymous Says:

MONSEY RABBIS:

You determined MF has no Chezkas Kashrus, why are you trusting anything coming out of his mouth. In his time of power he made a choizek out of you by fooling you, baal korah, baal tefillah,baal tzedakkah, yichus etc., and he's draiing you akup on his downfall.

Put MF under a lie detector test, and get the truth 100%. People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.

Yours Truly,
Q101

264

 Sep 12, 2006 at 05:00 PM Anonymous Says:

the whole story about natzach is not founded its reb nuson shpigel that tries to cover for rubashkin that came out with the story against the nyrbater rav.

most rabunim dont beleive a word this finkel has to say its only rabbi shpigel that works for weissmandel that sels his stories.

265

 Sep 12, 2006 at 04:56 PM Anonymous Says:

i called rabbi teitelbaum (the nirbater)- he was not home his son picked up the phone and confirmed that his father is giving the hechsher in netzach for the last 9 months and since then he has a mashgiach temidi. i asked him about before 9 months ago (since i am a long time customer there) he answered that i should consult directly to the old baal machsir "rabbi zinner 718-436-9052"
he also mentioned that there was a text message going around yesterday - but it was a mere hoax.
i passed netzach at around 1:00 the lady there told me that there is currently a "asifas harabonim' upstairs in the offices, rabbi zinner and teitelbaum where not home that time - meaning that they were probably all attending the asifah!
any one who has any update on netzach please post it - i have poultry at home and my wife is not using the pots (for now)

266

 Sep 12, 2006 at 04:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Does R' Y. Shain work for an organization or does he work for himself?

267

 Sep 12, 2006 at 04:53 PM Anonymous Says:

"ANYONE HAVE ANY FIRM INFORMATION FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE ON THE 2 BORO PARK BUTCHERS ACCUSED BY ANONYMOUS PERSONS ON VOS IZ NEIAS? NOT RUMOR, BUT FACT. BOTH ARE LOCATED ON BUSY STREETS SO I FIND IT HARD TO BELEIVE THAT THE NOSEY PEOPLE IN BP DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING IF THERE WAS INDEED ANYTHING TO SEE. IT IS TOTALY IRRESPOSIBLE TO NAME NAMES WITHOUT GIVING ANY REAL INFORMATION."

Sorry - no facts here.

I speculate that that MF got his (questionable) meat from a particular distributor, who also sold to those stores. Now, what's another truck (with ambiguous lettering) on the streets of BP? Would hardly be noticed.

Hide in plain sight.

268

 Sep 12, 2006 at 04:46 PM Chaim Says:

I know the people and rabbonim who are involved in investigating this case. I have spoken with some of them. I can tell you with certainty that these guys do not know how to to do a real investigation. It's not their line. Instead of realizing that they are not qualified investigators they take everything upon themselves, they make decisions based on half words, admissions and rumors. Don't ask... I'm sorry to have to report this to you, but sadly these are the facts.

p.s. The rabbonim who are the so-called leaders of Monsey are in general second quality rabbonim in which ever way you look at it. Now you can start the bashing, but these are the facts.

269

 Sep 12, 2006 at 04:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Can somone help me, or give me a phone # of one of the rabbonim involved in the investigation of the butchers in Boro Park as my wife just bought chicken & meat yesterday at Netzach & I wanted to know if she can use it or she should hold off using it until the investigation comes to a final outcome

270

 Sep 12, 2006 at 04:31 PM Anonymous Says:

netzoch yisrael is 'officialy' under the hechsher of the nidbater rav more than a half year

271

 Sep 12, 2006 at 04:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Maybe these accusations will reduce the consumption of meat and bring the prices down for the Yom Toivim

272

 Sep 12, 2006 at 04:15 PM Anonymous Says:

A prominent Monsey Rov said that The owner of Shevach Meats has given a recorded statement to the Rabbonim that he has been selling Treifa CHICKENS, MEATS & TURKEY FOR YEARS. In addition, the Rabbonim have met with Mr. Shevach himself at his refrigerators.

The Rabbonim questioned him regarding three 25 pound racks of lamb which were hanging there. Sure enough, TREIF! They have USDA serial numbers on them which were tracked right back to the TREIFA slaughterhouse where they were butchered.

there is also the possibility that there are other stores also involved in this ring in various communities.

273

 Sep 12, 2006 at 04:05 PM Anonymous Says:

TO ANN 11:48
'chillul shabos' excactlly what we are talking moitzi shem rah l'h according to you include the following cities in your list of mchallel shabosim (carriying with an eiruv in a city that has 600,000 occupants lr' moshe zt'l)JERUSLEM, BNEI BRAK(considered part of tel aviv)ANTWERP,WARSAR, LODZ,ODDESA, AM HARRETZ

274

 Sep 12, 2006 at 04:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Some say that the Nirbarter Rav took total responsobilty for the hechsher for Netzach in Boro Park over the last nine months. Does anybody know if this has been confirmed?

275

 Sep 12, 2006 at 03:55 PM Anonymous Says:

under 200 comments to go, and then I reveal my identity.

Some of you may be surprised.

276

 Sep 12, 2006 at 03:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Any yidden left out there who don't engage in LH and pay their taxes honestly, please post a comment in the next ten minutes!

277

 Sep 12, 2006 at 03:25 PM Anonymous Says:

ANYONE HAVE ANY FIRM INFORMATION FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE ON THE 2 BORO PARK BUTCHERS ACCUSED BY ANONYMOUS PERSONS ON VOS IZ NEIAS? NOT RUMOR, BUT FACT. BOTH ARE LOCATED ON BUSY STREETS SO I FIND IT HARD TO BELEIVE THAT THE NOSEY PEOPLE IN BP DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING IF THERE WAS INDEED ANYTHING TO SEE. IT IS TOTALY IRRESPOSIBLE TO NAME NAMES WITHOUT GIVING ANY REAL INFORMATION.

278

 Sep 12, 2006 at 03:24 PM Anonymous Says:

YATED 'LO' NEMAN IS SUDDENLY CONCERNED WITH L'H' ETC. THAT THEY CAN'T REPORT IT AS SIMPLE FACTS AT LEAST THAT THERE WAS A 'CHSASH'

IF IT WOULD ONLY HAVE BEEN A PARSHAH WITH AN 'EIRUV' BOY WOULD THEY ALREADY HAVE ADS UPON ADS > REGARDING THEIR POSITION IN BASMIRING AND CALLING THOSE WHO CARRY IN BP 'EIRUV' REFORM JEWS (YATED 2001)EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE SOIMECH ON AS CUSHIVAH POISKIM RABONIM AS R' BRSLAU.
IT SHOWS THERE IS AN AGENDA 'VDAH LMAVEN'

279

 Sep 12, 2006 at 02:48 PM S.R. Hirsch Says:

Is this a "Glatt" Blog?

280

 Sep 12, 2006 at 02:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Stop baschmutzing Rabbi Aurbach with your own personal loshon horah vendetta.

Its people like you who tear down rabbonim that gives others poor excuses to go on with their immoral lives.

Thank G-D we have Rabbonim like Rabbi Aurbach that are giving their valuable time to thoroughly investigate this matter.

The only logicial explanation there is for your stupid post is that you must be finkel posting anonymously.

281

 Sep 12, 2006 at 02:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Mr Shevach has admitted to selling treif meat, chicken and turkey for years. Found in his fridge were 3 25lb rack of lamb that were traced via their USDA number to a treif slaughterhouse

282

 Sep 12, 2006 at 02:06 PM yiddish mamma Says:

Netzach was a partner with MF for 15 years ago, so whatever this MF says should be taken with a great deal of caution.

It is generally believed that he decided that if he goes down he will drag his enemies allong.

Let's wait and see.

283

 Sep 12, 2006 at 02:04 PM yiddish mamma Says:

2 years ago Glaubers Backery realized he was missing cases of meat. he started looking after his delieveries and caught MF stealing two cases.

When approched MF said that he had a sickness to steal-shoplift, and is going for treatments for it, and that he really dosn't have a penny to his name. He warned him not to tell anyone.

He now admited to these rabbanim that he has been doing this (mixing treif and kosher) for 15 years!

This is NOT Loshon Hora! It is a mitzvah to be mefarsem! as the rabbanim in Krakow did in that famous incident.

PS: It is generally believed that his stories about other butchers are BS. He was a partner with one and may just want revenge.

PSS: I hear the mafia called Rabbi Zimmerman two days ago to warn him to stop investigating, as this exposes their black market. (unconfirmed)

284

 Sep 12, 2006 at 01:52 PM goombash Says:

btw: - too many stories with insiders and all-others about MOB involvements in General with all meat/food suppliers.

1 story - years ago a store to carry only Belz schita was threatened by mob to also carry other brands so as to have "arichas yomim". - soon after the butcher calls Belz with story.
supposedly Belz calls their mob connections, later that afternoon the butcher get a call from the competitor with great & many appologies.

you figure it out!

285

 Sep 12, 2006 at 01:49 PM goombash Says:

well, I for one do name names!

1) Netzach of boro park is under serious investigation. I am not saying that they did/did-not do anything - just highly suspsect at the moment.

2) same goes for "Goldberg's" on 18th Ave.- again - not NECESSARILY the fault of the owners or that they have announced that something was indeed trief.

Me personally, I would store any meat I had purchased in a special bag marked 'hold it' until more comes out.

286

 Sep 12, 2006 at 01:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Do Not Belive What You Read On Other Websites They Get Their News From Rabbi Mordechai (Motti) Aurbach From Monsey Who Lost His Chezkas Kashrus Many Years Ago When He Stole 2 And Half Million Dollars From The Reichmanns And At That Point Rabbi Shlomo Miller Threw Him Out Of Toronto Lets Just Stick To VOS IZ NEIAS

287

 Sep 12, 2006 at 01:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Anon 11:48 is on point.
He dares to call it the way it is
Kosher meat that is important.
What about GEZEL and CHILUL SHABOSS?

At least he is brave enough to ask a Question that must be asked.

288

 Sep 12, 2006 at 01:14 PM Anonymous Says:

I dont doubt or believe anything but Facts arising from anonymous posts on a Blog are not very Factual .

289

 Sep 12, 2006 at 01:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Three non kosher 25 pound racks of lamb were found.

Boxes of unmarked chicken.

A taped confession.

Anyone still doubting this sick story?

290

 Sep 12, 2006 at 12:55 PM Anonymous Says:

what cracks me up over here is everyone is so mad at the aveirah he caused so they do and suggest more to be done and caused

i stood on line for 2 hours to kasher my pots so i have no love for the guy i just dont get the LH and hatemongering and terrorristic suggestions

291

 Sep 12, 2006 at 12:45 PM SERIOUS GUY!!! Says:

I think we should make a BLOG for loshon hora only, and leave this BLOG for the uptades on the treif chicken scandel. thank you!!!!!

292

 Sep 12, 2006 at 12:31 PM Anonymous Says:

for how many YEARS?

293

 Sep 12, 2006 at 12:23 PM Anonymous Says:

The owner of Shevach Meats has given a recorded statement to the Rabbonim that he has been selling Treifa CHICKENS, MEATS & TURKEY FOR YEARS.

294

 Sep 12, 2006 at 12:20 PM Anonymous Says:

2 questions regarding the bomb scare:

1) were the socks found in the suitcase certified kosher?

2) was the metal pill box kashered?

295

 Sep 12, 2006 at 12:06 PM Anonymous Says:

yiddisha mamma do you post fact our things you "HEARD"?
you wrote "Let's start posting FACT's again:"
and then you write:
"I hear that in his last meeting.."
Make up your mind.

296

 Sep 12, 2006 at 12:04 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm afraid the Rabunim in Brooklyn will attempt to proect themselves.

297

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Anon 1128 sounds to be really hungry and ravenous for some good down to earth delightful and tasty LOSHON HORA

298

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:28 AM Anonymous Says:

ANY UPDATES FOR THE BROOKLYN BUTCHERS YET?

299

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:28 AM yiddish mamma Says:

Let's start posting FACT's again:

I hear that in his last meeting with his rabbanim (shpigal, zimmerman, bresslauer) MF told about other butchers who worked with him. I hear a famous butcher in boro Park (I will not name) is involved.

Some say the mafia was involved, as they are in the black market of the meat industry.

Anyone knows more FACTS: as to what he said, what is known, where he got these and for how long has he done it?

BTW: for all those yelling L"H and he was framed, this is not the case any longer, as he has admitted to Rabbi Zimmerman and said "greed has gotten the best of him".

300

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:13 AM LIFE IS SCARY Says:

Its the same with some so called very chashuva people.BTW I cant beleive that this person would only do such a terrible avera with out doing others its in possible.Whats kind of sad is that hopefully all these terrorists that terrorize the Jewish people should be brought to justice as soon as possible.May Moshiach come as quick as possible and save us from all the rishuim that live with in us and show us justice for once.

301

 Sep 12, 2006 at 11:03 AM Anonymous Says:

To be melamed zechus.

Is it possible he was trying to get us to be a "dor shekulo Chaiiv"???

It says "ayin ben dovid bo ad..."

302

 Sep 12, 2006 at 09:17 AM Anonymous Says:

Pelt MF's house with

a)blood
b)cheilev
c)quarter hinds
d)and of course, gid hanoshes

He deserves little mercy.

303

 Sep 12, 2006 at 09:11 AM Anonymous Says:

DON'T KNOW WHAT "GLATT CHICKENS" ARE, BUT THEY SEEM TO BE ALL OVER. GLATT DUCKS AND TURKEYS TOO! MUST BE A RECENT AMERICAN INNOVATION SINCE IN EUROPE THEY WERE NOT DEVELOPED YET. YEARS AGO WE HAD A GLATT KOSHER FRUIT STORE IN FLATBUSH. MAYBE SOON WE CAN BUY GLATT FISH, WINE AND KOOGLE! WE HAVE COME A LONG WAY, HAVEN'T WE?

304

 Sep 12, 2006 at 08:58 AM S.R.Hirsch Says:

What are glatt chickens?

305

 Sep 12, 2006 at 07:29 AM Anonymous Says:

Anon 9:59: Rule No. 1. If you were never a Rebbe or Morah, how could you be a principal?

So all the community hockers who just hock, have no idea what they are hocking about.

Rule No. 2. If you never fundraised for a school/yeshiva, you don't know how hard it is.

so, again, all community hockers who just hock, have no idea what it means to have the door slammed in their face when collecting for a yeshiva/school.

My suggestion: Before you hock, get out there and sweat a little.
Then come back and let me know how you feel.

Otherwise, this conversation is useless.

306

 Sep 12, 2006 at 07:06 AM Anonymous Says:

moishech is on his wa bec/ we got to 770 comments on such a sad thing some one from ch

307

 Sep 12, 2006 at 04:46 AM Yossi Says:

About Yudel Shain:

I posted the below to the comments section on his blog.
-----
I have serious problems beleiving your LH against The Right Place... Many are suggesting you are an alarmist...

If you accuse many of kashrus violations, and one, or some of the accusations turn out to have had some truth, that doesn't prove all of your accusations are true...

If you goes around accusing many, eventually one of the people you accuse may actually be caught with a wrongdoing, but that does not prove that you are always corect -- or even that you really were aware of the problem.

If you really knew Shevach was selling treif, as you so smugly intimate, how could you have not warned the public? I won't buy your version that no one cared... Is every rov in Monsey corrupt to the extent that not even one would investigate possible treif being sold to the public??? Do you expect us to buy that???

Furthermore, If you knew Shevach was selling treif, and no one would listen to you, why didn't you, yourself, go spread flyers about such a huge nichshal -- surely some people would have investigated... Surely the owners of Hatzlocha would have investigated.

I believe you are an alarmist...

If you truly have a reply to this, let's see you post it with a reply.
-----

308

 Sep 12, 2006 at 02:28 AM Anonymous Says:

to:11:08 PM
the case there, was a halacha issue .

at what point is money considered belonging to the poor.
when you pledge?
when you give it to a gabbai?
or when the poor people have it.?
rabbi "o" was the gabbai f0r m.r.
does that mean the money in the charity acct designated by m.r. is it considered belonging to the poor or is it still m.r. s'
rabbi "o" maintained that he represents the poor .
the great poskom in e.y. agreed.
it was a real halacha question.
and rabbi "o" showed brilliance. real brilliance as only a great talmid chacham can.
monsey is lucky to have such a talmid chacham that was meshamash gedolei yisroel, in their midst.
hk"bh was makdin refuah before the maka.
ksiva vachasima tova.

309

 Sep 12, 2006 at 01:48 AM 12:09 Says:

to:12:24 AM
it was in the lamb


from:
12:09

310

 Sep 12, 2006 at 01:23 AM Anonymous Says:

6:43, you are wrong. The chickens in Flatbush were not glatt and being sold as glatt - there was no tarfus.

311

 Sep 12, 2006 at 12:24 AM Anonymous Says:

Anon 12:09 keep me updated on your 'info'

312

 Sep 12, 2006 at 12:09 AM goombash Says:

It is very likely that anon 1:59 is real - his story is very plausible as follows

1. it is well known that there slaugther houses are mafia controlled (or mafia influenced)
If you know a butcher - esp. a Kosher one - ask'em if they know anything about Mob & Meats.

2. just heard that a famous "large" meat store on 16th ave in Boro Park. - known to sell cheap (or discounted) meat is now under similar investigation for selling neveila.

3. According to R. Katz - Satmar Dayan of Monsey - non kosher MEAT
(i.e. Neveila, & Chilav which carries an Issur Krisus) was found at the Shevach concession of Hatzlocho.

313

 Sep 12, 2006 at 12:03 AM Anonymous Says:

Put all the blame on the secular "bucharians" (Russians)- as long as Finkel stays a tzaddik!!!

314

 Sep 12, 2006 at 12:03 AM Anonymous Says:

There was just now a protest in front of Finkels house; Sorry I don't have all the details yet.

315

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:48 PM choi suka blet Says:

mikvah talk nowadays is that the russian mob was involved he might have been threatened.

tose damned bucharians they should all be deported we shouldnt have let them in in the first place

316

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:38 PM Anonymous Says:

And how about the issue of child
molestation that the Yated has chosen to ignore. Are our precious
children less an issue than
Indian sheitals and water copepods?

317

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:36 PM not the gadol hador Says:

to:11:08 PM
the case ther was ahalacha issue .
at what point is money considered belonging to the poor.
when you pledge?
when you give it to a gabbai?
or when the poor people have it.?
rabbi "o" was the gabbai f0r m.r.
does that meaan the money in the charity acct designated by m.r. is it considered belonging to the poor or is it still m.r. s'
rabbi "o" mantained that he represents the poor .
the great poskom in e.y. agreed.
it was a real halacha question.
and rabbi "o" should briliance. real briliance as only a great talmid chacham can.
monsey is lucky to have such a talmid chacham that was meshamash gedolei yisroel, in their midst.
hk"bh was makdin refuah before the maka.
ksiva vachasima tova.

318

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:08 PM Anonymous Says:

is this the same orbach that was in toronto and had a din torah with reichman where reichman claimed he stole ten mill from him then he moved to monsey and became a rav


what a joke he is talking about kashrus

319

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:06 PM moishe pippik Says:

People just want to widen the scandal for scandal's sake.
why should only the Monsey people cry, let boro park and Lakewood feel the pain as well

320

 Sep 11, 2006 at 10:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Just heard that there was a similar busting in Boro Park by Netzach meat. I hope I am hearing wrong. If I am hearing right, then Och and vey and nebach on us.
I would not be surprised for one minute if the Russian Mafia is involved.

321

 Sep 11, 2006 at 10:21 PM Anonymous Says:

DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW MANY KIDS MF IS SUPPORTING AND HOW LONG HE NEBACH COMMITTED HIMSELF, FOR EACH OF THEM, THAT UNFORTUNATELY LED HIM TO THIS??????????????

NOT THAT HE'S EXCUSED, HE SHOULD HAVE RATHER GONE TO A GMACH, BUT WE HAVE TO WAKE UP AND REALIZE WHY PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO DO THESE THINGS. HES NOT THE ONLY ONE DOING KRIMME SHTICK- JUST THE MAGNITUDE OF HIS WRONGDOING IS GREATER UNFORTUNATELY.

322

 Sep 11, 2006 at 09:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Anon writes:

"Funny, how anon. writes about communities running schools. Do you know how hard it is to run a school?"

>>> Tell us more. what is so hard?

do you have any idea how much time and energy is put into running a good school? How can busy community people run schools? They haven't got the time to be involved full time. And a school is 24/7, 365 days a year work; whether you like to agree or not, have you tried being a principal or the wife of one? "

>> Tell us more. Why does the difficulty justify private people owning schools? ADERABA - if it was a community school you would not have to work as hard and get better results. Look at the private shools you know and the community owned schools. Or look at out of town schools where the community feels that they own the school - everyone gets more involved donating more time and money. Yes. the difficulty is why you should ask your husband to quit and give the school over to the community.

323

 Sep 11, 2006 at 09:33 PM Anonymous Says:

צוויי וואכן שמיעסט מען שוין אז רבנים זיצען אין פארשן אויס וואס דא איז פארגעקימען

אפשר קען מיר איינער זאגן ווער זענענן די רבנים??

ווי זיצען די רבנים??


נ.ב. פאר די אלע שרייבערס למיניהם וואס זאגען אז זיי ווייסען פאר קראנט פארשידענע קעטערערס/סטארס וואס האבן מכשיל געווען אידן מיט טריפות, זאלן וויסען אז זיי טראגען א מוראדיגע אחרוית,

ווייל ממה נפשך, אויב ווייסטע אז אידן זענענן אין דערהיים נכשל געווארן מיט טריפות ח"ו, דאן דארפסטע מאכן א ויצעקו אז מען זאל ווי פריער כשר'ן די קיך ווייל די אלע אידן עסן דאך יעדן טאג אין טריפה כלים, אין זיי ווערן נאכאמאל אין נאכאמאל נכשל
אין אויב שרייבסטע ליגענט, דאן ביסטע א מוציא שם רע אויף אידן, וואס דאכט זיך אז די זענענן אין כלל פין אין לו חלק לעוה"ב


מימלא די בעסטע זאך איז צי וויסען פאר מען שרייבט אז עס זאל זיין אויסגעהאלטן 100% פרצענט

324

 Sep 11, 2006 at 09:16 PM Anonymous Says:

On another similiar site there is information that the butcher confessed to "rabonim" that his selling of tarfus has gone on for many years. Also their is a claim that lamb was traced by USDA numbers to a traifa slaughterhouse. Anyone know if there's any truth to this story and who he confessed to? There has been no hard information on the situation since the story broke days ago.

325

 Sep 11, 2006 at 08:30 PM pedro the bagle Says:

Get a life.
The Yated had the KOl Koreh in the paper.

What should he have written last week? Uncredible information....like the Hamodia wrote...and often writes?

326

 Sep 11, 2006 at 08:21 PM Anonymous Says:

WHY ARE YOU UPSET ABOUT MY COMMENT ON THE YATED!!

THE QUESTION IS QUITE SIMPLY WHY THEY HAVE NOT REPORTED ABOUT THE
KASHRUS CRISIS IN THEIR OWN
HOMETOWN (NO LESS!!) OF MONSEY?

IF HAMODIA COULD REPORT IT- WHY
NOT THE YATED?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOUR BEING SO DEFENSIVE. IT'S A VERY BASIC
AND SIMPLE QUESTION YOU SEE.

COMPREZ-VOUS?

327

 Sep 11, 2006 at 08:09 PM yatedblogger Says:

To annon 7:03 pm

Being that Yated's father threw the bastard out of his shul 15 years ago, I think that comment should be struck from the record!

Get some info before attacking the Yated.

328

 Sep 11, 2006 at 07:57 PM honest cheap jew Says:

to the general public.
please don't panic.
ther are two investigations going on.
one is about non-kosher meat working its way to to the kosher meat supply line.
the other, stolen kosher meat that works its way into the supply line.
please don't mix up the two.

329

 Sep 11, 2006 at 07:52 PM shadchan Says:

to:7:01 PM

you said:
"The reason you can't find your shidduch yet is simply that the basherte has not come around yet.

The Aibishter knows his business, we need not question Hashem; we need to reinforce our Bitachon in HIM."

according to this logic you wiil marry your "basherte"
how do you explain achoen marrying a divorcee.
is it the' Aibishter"s' will?
you have to answer NO. because in the torah wer ehe reveals his will, he says so.
so follow thru.
this means; you can go against the will of hashem if you chhose to ,even in a shiduch.

p.s. this was taken directly from the rambam.

330

 Sep 11, 2006 at 07:03 PM Anonymous Says:

I THINK YATED SHOULD BE BOYCOTTED FOR
NOT REPORTING ON THIS ISSUE
BEING HE KNOWS MF PERSONALLY

331

 Sep 11, 2006 at 07:01 PM Anonymous Says:

The reason you can't find your shidduch yet is simply that the basherte has not come around yet. The Aibishter knows his business, we need not question Hashem; we need to reinforce our Bitachon in HIM.

Funny, how anon. writes about communities running schools. Do you know how hard it is to run a school? do you have any idea how much time and energy is put into running a good school? How can busy community people run schools? They haven't got the time to be involved full time. And a school is 24/7, 365 days a year work; whether you like to agree or not, have you tried being a principal or the wife of one?

332

 Sep 11, 2006 at 06:43 PM Anonymous Says:

everbody is going crazy over this. what ever happened to the store in brooklyn that sold treifa meats and chickens last year?

we forgot already.

history does repeat itself.

im sure shevach isn't the only one out there. they just got caught.

333

 Sep 11, 2006 at 03:08 PM goombash Says:

anon 2:29
Please remove head from tuches prior to posting
(I remember the 1995 story vividly, and personally know rabbonim who were personally involved in that investigation, who 10 years ago feared very similarly - setup + mafia)

334

 Sep 11, 2006 at 03:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Tzaddik of 247,

What does onaas devorim mean and where is it seen here?

335

 Sep 11, 2006 at 02:47 PM Anonymous Says:

There is a lav in the Torah of onaas devorim. There is one person whose posts are full of it. Be careful, the Borei Olam is keeping track. It does'nt only get written down on this blog.

336

 Sep 11, 2006 at 02:29 PM Anonymous Says:

WHo is this self proclaimed quack of 159 throwing around these bureaucratic acronyms all over the place. Do you think you are in the Federal Govt. here? Who are you trying to impress?

Spell out the acronyms, if you want to make any sense.

337

 Sep 11, 2006 at 02:28 PM goombash Says:

also: - overheard at bagel shop this morning (in monsey) that MF has taken off to switzerland.
I have no idea if there is any validity to this.

338

 Sep 11, 2006 at 02:26 PM goombash Says:

I too heard that the Satmar Dayan (r. Katz) anounced that they found Neveila MEAT (not chicken) last night. (srengthening Seph Einber on this one)

also anon 11:48 is a FERD of a magnitude that calls for a permanent ban of ANY jewish blog
(I am not the first here to object to the FERD) seems the FERD must have purchased and eaten from Shevach and it has trully affected him - so now he picks on the Eiruv.

339

 Sep 11, 2006 at 02:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Who is NS and who is CG Was ALLE involved in any way ? If yes ,they should immediately be shut down or at the least boycotted by any Frum jews

340

 Sep 11, 2006 at 02:16 PM Anonymous Says:

To Shadchan,
I spoke to my daughter and showed her what you wrote.
If you have somebody, she will take him. Thanks for the Mussar and advice.

341

 Sep 11, 2006 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:

As an non-observant Federal Government agent heavily involved behind the scene let me clarify some information.

*In 1995, Morris Finkel was a partner of David Komin, operating under the name Glatthouse Finer Meats. In May of that year, his butchers discovered a hind portion, in a shipment from Alle Kosher meats, a Hasidic meat processer. He alerted his USDA inspector, who investigated. Morris was subsequently threatened with his life.

*An ROC was written at the time, and the Orthodox supervisor closed down the plant to determine, how much meat was hind quarters.

*Upon further investigation it was determined that the meat was planted on orders of a local Hasidic leader NS.

*NS was questioned for over 16 hours last week, passed a polygraph that he was blackmailed by a CG to plant the meat there in order to ruin Morris.

*According to a close family friend, Morris has been pressured by CG to pay up. Additionally him and Morris had a major fallout in the beginning of July. CG has extensive Mob connections.

Putting two and two together leads me to assume that while Morris deservedly lost his reputation, he is not solely to blame.

MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY, IT IS A FEDERAL CRIME TO IMPEDE AN INVESTIGATION, ALLOW ALL PARTIES TO CONDUCT A THOROUGH EXAMINATION WITHOUT PRESSURE.

342

 Sep 11, 2006 at 01:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Is there any official list of which Bungalow Colonies bought (and then sold) meat from Shevach Meats? Those of us outside of Monsey are concerned too. Any information would be very much appreciated.

343

 Sep 11, 2006 at 01:44 PM Burnw Says:

Anon 1225 summed it up pretty well.
Nobody out there, I don't care how phony or non-phony frum you are, can be more pointed in what this is all about than what was said by Anon 1225.

A hartzige yasher koach to Anon 1225

344

 Sep 11, 2006 at 01:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Anonymous 12:40,

You are a mashehu and your thinking is even less than that!

Pull out the electron microscope to measure that

345

 Sep 11, 2006 at 01:39 PM Anonymous Says:

To Do Teshuva Now,

WHen you are a choteh U'machti es Horabim, (translated as you sin and cause others to sin), you can rest assured your name should be dragged in the mud and through the mud in public.

I dare say if there was a Sanhedrin today what they would do to this lowlife.

346

 Sep 11, 2006 at 01:21 PM Do teshuva now! Says:

When I see all these posts, I cringe - We all do things
wrong - How would we like to
see our sins posted for all
to take potshots at - to our
shame - to our family's shame -
oy l'anu -

347

 Sep 11, 2006 at 01:01 PM shadchan Says:

to
8:12 AM
said

Anonymous said...
To anan at 4.36 PM
I totally disagree with you.
I have a beautiful daughter with midos tovos, and I am offering $150,000.00 and still have not found a good boy.What's the problem, I am from out of town.


CHANGE yway our thinking

you let her know this.
she becomes picky ,pickier than you.
at the end you settle.
or you find out she is not that outstanding.
modesty is one of the midos tovos.
as a
matter of fact, the opposite 'ga'ava' is the worst.
if you got great kids,thank hashem,and don't ruin them.
by the way stubbornness' is the biggest flaw of character,especial in a shiduch

348

 Sep 11, 2006 at 12:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Wrong,

This was done to me personally. I have a right to know exactly what was done.

This is not about someone doing something worng in his house. this was done to a klall....

349

 Sep 11, 2006 at 12:40 PM Anonymous Says:

to anonymous 11:04...How do you that he's not mentally ill? You claim its total GREED. Are you certain? Did you ever ascertain what his mental condition is and what his real motivations are? Don't talk if there's even a mashehu doubt about anything that is written in this blog. The bottom line is, nobody really knows because you were'nt there yourself and you don't know what's going on in his head. Like all things in life, everything is whatever a person wants to beleive with all the attendant bias's that each person has. I'll say it again, only the Ribbonai Shel Olam knows what's really going on and not for us mortals to say what is and what is'nt. It's never a clear cut issue as black or white.

350

 Sep 11, 2006 at 12:32 PM Do Tshuvah Now Says:

Seeing all this posted makes me cringe - We all do things wrong -
can you imagine if everything we
did wrong was posted so that
everybody can take potshots at
us to our shame, to our family's
shame - oy l'anu -

351

 Sep 11, 2006 at 12:30 PM Anonymous Says:

11:48 is an extremely stupid post and should have been banned.

I know Rav Aurbach is actively involved in this investigation.

352

 Sep 11, 2006 at 12:27 PM Anonymous Says:

This 11:24 post about the lamb is really disturbing. This is the first we hear about the meat too.

Although the rabunim said he lost his chezkas kashrus so there really is no difference.

353

 Sep 11, 2006 at 12:25 PM Anonymous Says:

I just spoke with my uncle a holocost surviver, and he was crying and told me that when he was in auswitz r"l, he tryed as hard as he could not to eat treif and it was relley hard, as you you all know, and some times he didn't eat for 2 days, and he feels terriable for those few times he did eat treif but had no other choice and it was PEKIACH NEFESH. and now in america he bought chicken at shevach not knowing that moshe finkel ym"s has the soul of hitler ym"s vezichroi, sold him treif for so many years, he sad how can i forgive myself now, he cryed, may hashem have rachmonis on all those ho relley want to do shuva and send them a ruach tahara in their souls, and this rasha MF ym"s should have a end as all the big rashaim that were intrested in being machshil klal yisroel with big aveirus for so many years.AMEN..

354

 Sep 11, 2006 at 12:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Why should repackaging be stopped from now on?

Every butcher buys from the wholesaler or producer and then repackages it. It's no different than the holy Satmarer butcher etc. Do we close them down now too?

355

 Sep 11, 2006 at 12:04 PM Please come forward.... Says:

We are asking anybody with inside information of this investigation to please come forward with any details you might have.

We would like to know,

Who are the Rabbis that are investigating this?

Who is doing cross exemination?

Where is the investigation up to right now? Was there anyone else INVOLVED or not?

356

 Sep 11, 2006 at 12:01 PM Anonymous Says:

To above Anonymous stupid idiot 11:48am,

Are there Rabbonim that are matir the Eiruv, yes or no? If yes, shut up!

357

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:

I have to ask a Question.Treifus BEOYNES seems to scare people and bother people--HOW DID I FEED POISON TO MY CHILDREN.
I did not hear the same pain from ANY BODY regarding the CHILUL SHABOSS taking place BEFARHESIA every week in Boro Park and Flatbush As far as I Know Chilul Shabbos is an EISUR SEKILA and Treifus BEOYNES is not a punishable act.

SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG WITH THE VALUES OF THIS NEW ADVANTAGED GENERATION

358

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:25 AM Anonymous Says:

in Boro Park the following halls used Shevach Meat Menorah Hall, Seville Manor, Wien on 50th Street

359

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:24 AM Seph Einber Says:

Well, Yesterday (Sunday) the Rabonim went down to the Store and put together an enitre LAMB from the meat parts found in the freezer and from returns, one of the sad parts is that they found parts from the animals REAR, in hebrew it's called CHEILEK ACHOREIYIM, which is forbidden to eat from the TORAH, as it is CHEILEV, and he never would of gotten it from a kosher plant, so it has to be that ALL the meat if not Most of the meat has benn coming from OTHER/NON KOSHER sources, after puting together the parts, the rabunim called him down to the store, and he was Speechless, he had NOTHING TO say, they were with the USDA on the phone tracking the meat from which plant it is coming, and unfortunatly it was from non kosher plants, These are the details I can reveal so far, More to come.....

360

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:18 AM Anonymous Says:

To Goombash 1:19
Sorry. But you missed the points entirely. And no, I have no ax to grind. We never bought any chickens or meat in that store.

361

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:17 AM Anonymous Says:

It is real Shameful that the rabbonim are afraid to come out openly and say the truth that the made a BIG mistake and they would like to start by themselves correcting first then telling others how and what to correct there were a lot of halls in the Boro Park area that also sold shevach meat did they kasher yet?
anybody has the list in boro park please post

362

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:11 AM Anonymous Says:

To "You know all you people are extremely judgemental about this guy...yet has it ever occured to you that if it turns out that he actually did what he is suspected of doing, that this person may be mentally ill? Maybe he has a personality disorder like psychosis? Who knows what goes thru this person's head? Only the Ribonoi Shel Olam knows... "

Those that cause Chilul Hashem in other sectors- outside of Kashrus- are defaming and defiling as well. Only Hashem can judge which is more or less heinous.


If he's mentally ill, there are many many others that are equally mentally ill and have committed other improprieties. The question remains- how do we lessen the support pressure cooker so that we won't have to resort to "krimme shtick" to bid on a Kollel boy and marry off our children?

363

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:04 AM Burnw Says:

Anon 1038,

How could you trust kashrus in the hands of one that is mentally ill? Are you advocating that a battery of psychological testing be performed on those who deal in the kosher food industry. Do yourself a favor and come to the realization that GREED exists. If he was a yirei shomayim, he would not do this. PERIOD. A mentally ill person cannot conduct a business for as long as he did.

Your theory is deficient in every which sense of the word.

364

 Sep 11, 2006 at 11:00 AM Anonymous Says:

How does one explain to a Holocaust survivor who ate nothing but potato peels, eggs and drank water in the Lagers to keep kosher only to come to this country and find him or herself eating treif, not in Lincoln, Nebraska, but in MONSEY, NY, a mokam torah!!!!!

For what reason did this person keep kosher in the lager? Only to be betrayed by a yiddishe sheigitz here in the USA.

WHat do you say to such a yid? A holocaust survivor.

Let me say something about which I am very emphatic and emotional about. I am not a holocasut survivor but the child of one.

THere is K'mat nobody and I mean nobody who growing up in the USA today can claim to be as frum as those who suffered miserably in the camps. I don't care what yeshiva you went to, which rebbe you spend time friday nights with, the length of your payos, or the shade of blackness of your Borsalino.

The Yiddishkeit in AMerica today continues because some of us still recognize the contributions and mesiros nefesh that those in Europe undertook during a most undescribable bitter time in human history. I dare say how many living in the lap of luxury here in the USA could be "soivel" what our zeides and babbas did?

How do we respond to the most important element in our community, which unfortunately, will not be around for much longer.
DO we think about them?

They paved the way for us. WIthout them, we would be assimilated jews here in America.

365

 Sep 11, 2006 at 10:53 AM Anonymous Says:

To "I thank the Eibishter that I am part of a community where marriage is NOT a $$$ business! "

Please let us know which community you are referring to. Let it be an example for all to follow.

366

 Sep 11, 2006 at 10:42 AM Anonymous Says:

Here's another someone who still believes MF NEVER sold tarfus.

367

 Sep 11, 2006 at 10:38 AM Anonymous Says:

You know all you people are extremely judgemental about this guy...yet has it ever occured to you that if it turns out that he actually did what he is suspected of doing, that this person may be mentally ill? Maybe he has a personality disorder like psychosis? Who knows what goes thru this person's head? Only the Ribonoi Shel Olam knows...

368

 Sep 11, 2006 at 10:23 AM Confused Says:

No private schools? and
No private hechsheirim?

Who are we???
What are we???
Where are we???

We are frum yidden;
To serve Hakodosh Boroch Hu
...everyone on his derech;
Living in the United States of America - !!!

369

 Sep 11, 2006 at 10:19 AM Anonymous Says:

Maybe the general public should force the Rabbonim to do something about all the pressure about shidduchum, So no-one should have to do non-kosher business. The way it looks (by the comments i read) its all a chain so if we stop putting pressure about shidduchim then maybe people wont be "forced"
to do non-kosher business and on and on the chain will stop (less people in jail).

370

 Sep 11, 2006 at 10:18 AM Anonymous Says:

I thank the Eibishter that I am part of a community where marriage is NOT a $$$ business!

371

 Sep 11, 2006 at 10:17 AM yidel Says:

tiyereh yidden, as with every other tzvek and tzorah emergencey committees,vaadim and collections spring up why is this any different?
i think we should have kehilisher scheitos re-established.after a story like this money to pull this non-profit operation should not be hard to raise.
We spend yiddisher gelt on the best tuitions,teffilin,sefrie torah ,esrogim,shietlach,summer camps........I think the kashrus of the food we eat should be up there .
A unified kashrus agency should be set up .All certified establishments would pay an attracive price .the remainder shal be picked up by the newly formed "Hasgocha".
All establishments must give total access to the "Hasgocha" ,keys to all kitchens,freezers and storage facilities.24 hour video recordings should be imlemented as many Lakewood stores have in place by the KCL.

372

 Sep 11, 2006 at 09:29 AM Anonymous Says:

There is no such concept as AHAVA any longer in this religion. It is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$, everything is money. People are not marrying off their children because of the mitzvah of Pru U'rvu. Rather, a business transaction.

"You want to "buy" my son. It will cost you ex number of dollars while he sits in Kollel learning(?). There is no sincerity in shidduchim today.

You think I am making this up? Read the Letters to the Editor, week after week, month after month in the yiddishe newspapers. Parents crying over the lack of progress in finding shiduchim for their children. Love is not a factor in marriage today. Absolutely not. Money talks.
What a sick path this religion and its people are headed on.

373

 Sep 11, 2006 at 09:13 AM Anonymous Says:

to 12:25
whats exactly is your problem with the Yated?????? HUH?
Ich Farshty Nisht.

374

 Sep 11, 2006 at 09:11 AM Anonymous Says:

As long as we are living in the above named "pressure cooker" of Kollel support- with the best boys going to the highest bidder- there will always be desperate people doing all kinds of shtick to be able to afford the bidding. May we all wake up from our deep slumber.

375

 Sep 11, 2006 at 08:37 AM Anonymous Says:

To Anonymous 8:12
The reason you cannot find a shidduch for your daughter is very simple ..
you havn't sat in jail yet!

376

 Sep 11, 2006 at 08:31 AM Anonymous Says:

1. IMPLEMENT AN IVR SYSTEM.
============================
I spoke to an important person in kashrus this morning, he says that there are already serial numbers on the each package. All we need is each kashrus organization to have an IVR (interactive voice response system i.e via touch tone digits you can query a database to find out information) that would allow nervous or g-d fearing consumers to check the database through the telephone to check up on their products from time to time. Just the fact that this is possible will deter the fraudulent shop keeper or distributor.

2. ELIMINATE TOLERANCE FOR FRAUD:
================================
The same person also told me that some problems with kashrus start from the person not paying his bills and being cut off by the supplier. The rav hamachshir aught to pull of his hechsher right away from a thief that does purchases meat and does not pay. How could you give someone like that a hechsher?

3. WHO GAVE HIM THE MEAT?
============================
Apparently one of the rumors going around is that when he was cut off from his distributor, the truck driver sold him meat from another "good buy." "Empire" meat, he was told.

Who is this truck driver, if true, and did anyone get the cell phone number so we can purchase the call records to track this down. The problem may go deeper than we think.

4. NO REPACKAGING.
===================
Of course, no repackaging should be allowed anymore.

5. CERTIFICATION AND OTHER EDUCATION: TIME FOR MORE COMMUNITY CONTROLLS:
===================================
What makes someone capable of opening up a hechsher business? What makes someone capable of opening up a school? All these areas in our religion are hefker. It is a free for all. Any “good” intentioned person can just do what they want.
The result is what we see i.e scandals in the kashrus certification and education fields.

It is time for the community to take more control. There should be no private schools. The schools should be owned by the community. There should be no private hechsherim. The hechsherim business should be owned by the community.

377

 Sep 11, 2006 at 08:12 AM Anonymous Says:

To anan at 4.36 PM
I totally disagree with you.
I have a beautiful daughter with midos tovos, and I am offering $150,000.00 and still have not found a good boy.What's the problem, I am from out of town.

378

 Sep 11, 2006 at 03:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Instead of using all of our energy to see who is to blame and getting angry at what happened, let's use the same energy to look inwards, and ask ourselves why Hashem made this able to happen that we should be nichshal like this. IT SHOULD STIR US UP TO DO TESHUVAH.

Kesivah Vechasimah Tovah to all of Klal Yisrael!

379

 Sep 11, 2006 at 01:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Why in the world should the YATED cover this story?
This is a all chasiddisha story. Don't you know that the YATED covers only 'shtarka Litvisha meissas'?????????

380

 Sep 11, 2006 at 01:30 AM Anonymous Says:

I came here after rading the NY Times online article. It has taken about five hours to read all 700 posts.

I would like to leave a few comments.

1) To “patch zich ofen boch” (pat your stomach) that you did not purchase Shevach”s meat, misses the point that a very significant portion of Klal Yisroel is in Tzar (hurting) for the treifus that was fed to them. Furthermore, it is very unfortunate that some see this as a Litvishe vs Chasidishe type of problem. This is a Klal Yisroel problem
2) The Rabonim acted swiftly in declaring that Shevach”s meats should immediately not be eaten. This instantly stopped the problem from getting worse.
3) The possibility of having to kasher everything was immediately brought up, though there was mass confusion if it is to be only for 2 days or much longer. It now turns out that that the Rabbanim are saying that if Shevachs meats were purchased in the last 10 years then kashering is required. You cannot fault the Rabbanim for waiting with this psak, as it afftects vast sums of money, and all that they requested is you wait/ask your own Rav.
4) The notion that you have to know from whom you are buying did not work, as the butcher apparently betrayed every assumption there is about nemunes (trust in a frum Jew). He was trusted at every level. How do we trust anyone? Who looked or acted the part better than this butcher?
5) We now identified that repackaging is a problem. At this point buying only from non-repackagers will remove part of the problem. Could there not also be a problem in printing boxes labeled KJ or KAJ?
6) I though some great ideas were posted here regarding labeling boxes. These numbers can easily be traced. I am sure that more can and should be done.
7) Assuming a treif chickens costs about $1.00 less than a kosher chicken (just guessing, but could not be too far off the mark), and further assuming that four people eat from each chicken (4 quarters), it has dawned on me that klal yisroel was sold out for about 25 cents per person to be nichshol in neveilah. Think of it “a quarter a person.” I still cannot believe a “frum” Jew who was brought up in a Frum environment could stoop this low.
8) You can bet that there are major discussions now going on at all Rabbinic levels to learn from this tragic experience. Just because no new procedure have been announced so far, does not mean everyone is asleep. Now that the nemuness issue was gravely misused, you can bet that there will also be major changes in who has access to the keys, the labels being used etc. etc.
9) It is my sincere hope and belief, that a stronger Kashrus will result from this tragedy.

381

 Sep 11, 2006 at 01:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Anonymous: What in heavens name does Earth to Yated mean? Please explain. By the way, my friend, Yated is the only paper that actually sticks up for the truth. But the Yated is not printed on Sunday; its only printed once a week, so calm down.

382

 Sep 11, 2006 at 12:25 AM Anonymous Says:

EARTH TO YATED!!!

EARTH TO YATED!!!

COPY?

EARTH TO YATED - TIME TO WAKE UP!!!

YATED- AREN'T YOU SUPPOSED TO ACT
RESPONSIBLY TO YOUR READERS AND ALERT THEM ABOUT THE KASHRUS ISSUE
IN MONSEY?

YATED- AREN'T YOU SUPPOSED TO INSTRUCT PEOPLE IN METHODS OF
KASHERING?

YATED- WHERE IN THE HEAVENS ARE YOU??

YATED- WE HAVE A PROBLEM!! (APPOLLO 13)

COME IN YATED! COME IN !!!!!!

383

 Sep 11, 2006 at 12:04 AM Der Roov Says:

Yes you have to kasher your braces. Fill your mouth with water and sit on the stove top. When it boils spit it out.

384

 Sep 10, 2006 at 11:01 PM Anonymous Says:

1. Since there was a din torah, there is still a possiblity of a set up.

2. Does anyone know his cell phone number? We can purchase his records and find out where he got the meat from, if in case he was not set up.

385

 Sep 10, 2006 at 10:35 PM A BOY Says:

DO YOU HAVE TO KHASHER YOUR BRACES

386

 Sep 10, 2006 at 10:32 PM Anonymous Says:

people claim, that major news on the chicken scandal is sposto break, anyone has any such news???

387

 Sep 10, 2006 at 09:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Anonymous 9:37 is one hundred percent right

388

 Sep 10, 2006 at 09:39 PM Anonymous Says:

State says nonkosher-chicken investigation shouldn't take long, so until then we let him in our schools, shuls, mikvhas, etc?

389

 Sep 10, 2006 at 09:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Maybe we need to wait and come down and see what will follow in the next coppel of dyas..........
by you talking is 100% loshon hora ..
"BITIL TOIRAH"
we cant halp now, we can only do Tshuvah!
In one week is Alef Slichos Please stap now

390

 Sep 10, 2006 at 09:22 PM goombash Says:

to all those who still think MF didn't do it.

1) you are all FERD (consider that a compliment, begin the understatement that it is)

2) you are no different then those who believe 9/11 was a consiperacy led by pres. Bush.

3) you are no different then those who believe the holocaust never happened - and all witnesses and documents are false.

(PS - anon 8:20 - you funny!!! - he he he)

391

 Sep 10, 2006 at 09:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Chas Vashalom to say anything against any Rabonim. You should be ashamed of yourselves.It's a total disgrace to Kovad Hatorah how some of you talk.
How do you look at yourselves. I am embarrased that I read a blog like this.

392

 Sep 10, 2006 at 09:10 PM Anonymous Says:

where is the accountability of these rabbonim
stop telling people that you cant criticize the rabbonim who gave a hechsher

he should be forced to resign from his shul in shame of what he did

he was told years ago that MF played games thats why he was not allowed to provide the atrium with meat

breslauer is a disgrace and all the rabbis that cover his excuse for a hechser are just as guilty

but lets blame this all on loshon hora and not on the rabbis lax hechser

393

 Sep 10, 2006 at 09:08 PM Anonymous Says:

ALL of you there outside of Monsey:

If you ever ate out of your house, take-out, by a simcha, by family or friends; You better do teshuvah!

Chapts Eich Mitt!!

Alef Slichos is a fast day for men above 18yrs - Some Rabbonim don't want woman to fast (or weak and old people)- instead they need to give $18 to tzeddakah.

Some people are adding extra learning/tehillim hours to there schedule for 30-90 days, depends who...

Some are refraining to eat Fleishigs for 18 days (some 90days).

Some locals are giving "koffer nefesh" from $18 - $72 per family.

Whatever, everyone should follow the advice from his Rav...

But if you feel "UGH" then cleanse yourself... you'll feel much better afterwards...

394

 Sep 10, 2006 at 08:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Moishe Finkel said that if he would know how much "BITIL TOIRAH" his "MASAH NEVULAH" will bring, he would never do it...!

395

 Sep 10, 2006 at 07:25 PM Anonymous Says:

I hope there are some quality investigetory rabbonim involved.

396

 Sep 10, 2006 at 07:21 PM Anonymous Says:

I have a family wedding this week at " ATARES AVRAHAM" in willitown does this mean I won't be able to eat meat there?

397

 Sep 10, 2006 at 07:13 PM Anonymous Says:

anon 1054 wrote that mf was talking last night at 2:00am with the owner of hatzlocha grocery

i was informed as a result of the questions that the rabonim were questioning mf, the rabonim brought him down to store , maybe the owner was there at the request of the rabonim to let them in to the premises

398

 Sep 10, 2006 at 06:59 PM Anonymous Says:

anon1054 writes that mf was talking with the owners of hatzlocha last night at 2 oclock am

i was informed that the rabonim as a result of the investigation that the rabonim were doing, the rabonim brought mf down to premises, maybe owner was called down at the request of the rabonim to let them in to the store

399

 Sep 10, 2006 at 06:33 PM Anonymous Says:

I feel horrible about the story. I wonder if I ever had their meat..ugh!What betrayal. I hear there is a fast scheduled for Aleph Selichos.

400

 Sep 10, 2006 at 06:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Anony. 3:45 PM,

No where did anyone blaim R' Moishe Green. He simply stated that a big michsol beshoigeg came out through his hands both in his yeshiva and via his sons store Hatzluche which tens of thousands of people were nichshol. Someone has to ask why did Hashem make that such a michshol came out through him. I'm sure there is a reason for everything. Nothing is a Mikreh on this world.

401

 Sep 10, 2006 at 05:17 PM Anonymous Says:

In Williuamsburg the fancy Catering Hall "ATERAS AVROHOM" is kashering now their kitchen since during last summer when their supplier couldn't deliver satmar chickens the ywere told to get it hurriedly from a place in Monsey named Shevach who has satmar chickens...it happened several times, tonite there is a wedding and they have bring in outside utensils to handle the meat, ITS A MESS

402

 Sep 10, 2006 at 04:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Anonymous said...
TO ALL TOSHVEI MONSEY:

No I don't believe this is a job of hell more than before Pasach before Pasach we only Kosher the counter top and sinks, some silver but not the hole kitchen each and all dishes utensils pots pans containers bekelech etc and etc.

403

 Sep 10, 2006 at 04:43 PM Anonymous Says:

TO ALL TOSHVEI MONSEY:

NOW THAT I/YOU HAVE PERSONALLY GONE THRU A KASHERING PROCESS,
HOW DO YOU THINK A CATERER CAN TO THE SAME FOR A LARGE SIMCHA IN A FEW HOURS.
JUST THE CLEANING.
THE SILVERWARE,
THE SILVER CHAFFING DISHES,
THE OVENS,
SINKS,.
THE DISHWASHER,
THE COFFE POTS,
THE GLASSES,
THE HOT WATER FOR COFFE/TEA ON SHABBAT
YOU'LL BE STUNNED AT THE ANSWER.
YOU MIGHT NEVER EAT IN SUCH A PLACE AGAIN.
UNLESS IT'S PESACH AND YOUR WIFE DOES'NT'T REALLY WANT TO HAVE ALL THOSE IN-LAWS ,GRANDCHILDREN, GUESTS.
YOU SEE WERE. ALL A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES, IN VERY LARGE EMPTY HOUSES.
WHAT A SHAME.
WHAT A LEGACY WE ARE LEAVING OVER FOR THE NEXT GENERATION.

404

 Sep 10, 2006 at 04:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Mr.Moshe Finkel is in town I meet with him in Monsey he is not hiding

405

 Sep 10, 2006 at 04:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Anonymous said...
Anan 3:36 PM
AND:
1) You still eat meat from your freezer which you bought overthere!
2) You don't Kasher your Keilim!
3) Eating Nevaila is not on your list of doing Tshuvah!

4:11 PM

1) I still have waiting for the full story to come out I have it in a do not touch bag in the freezer
2) I Kasherd all my Keilim! only on friday I was eating all week long
3) Yes I am doing Tshuvah since it Elul

406

 Sep 10, 2006 at 04:37 PM Anonymous Says:

I HAVE NOT YET SEEN ANY SUGESTIONS AS TO SAFEGUARDS TO PREVENT A RECCURENCE OF THE MONSEY CHICKEN SCANDAL. WHERE THERE IS MONEY INVOLVED THERE IS TEMPTATION AND ALL TOO MANY SUPERMARKETS ARE "REPACKAGING" MEAT.

WHAT IS BEING DONE ABOUT THIS?

407

 Sep 10, 2006 at 04:36 PM Anonymous Says:

To "It is time that we all come to terms with...... "

If Moshe Finkel would have a daughter on the market now, and would be offering a hundred thousand or more nadden with a nice package deal-do you doubt he'd have a crowd of top learners standing on line as takers? They would reason- but the daughter is a good girl, he was framed and on and on..... even if he was proven guilty!

408

 Sep 10, 2006 at 04:26 PM Anonymous Says:

to 1:25
Well said and really ztim Zach!!
Maybe some rabbonim will hear our cries and stop all this pressure. A lot of tzaddikim also brought in parnussa they should be our model.

409

 Sep 10, 2006 at 04:19 PM Anonymous Says:

to 3:36
Don't you have any shame??????
What do want to go together with MF in gehenim? Looks like thats your goal!

410

 Sep 10, 2006 at 04:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Anan 3:36 PM
AND:
1) You still eat meat from your freezer which you bought overthere!
2) You don't Kasher your Keilim!
3) Eating Nevaila is not on your list of doing Tshuvah!

411

 Sep 10, 2006 at 03:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to
once a frum jew said... 3:15 PM


No we "R" @ work

412

 Sep 10, 2006 at 03:45 PM Anonymous Says:

What dos R' Moishe Green have to do with a Monsey butcher selling Treifa Chicken & Meat guard your tongue. R' Moishe Green is no small man, Its Loshon hora for no reason

413

 Sep 10, 2006 at 03:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Here's someone who still believes MF NEVER sold tarfus.

414

 Sep 10, 2006 at 03:22 PM Could not agree more Says:

From Israel613.com

שאלת היום? איז "מונסי" "קראקע"ט?
קיצור: העיר התורה מונסי אף פעם לא התענינו על מה שקרה בעיר קראקא,
ופתאום הם קיבלו אותם אבל בגדול, המומחים טוענים שעוד לא ידוע להם אם איזה כפית אוכלים את זה
מונסי שינוי חדש שקוראים להם עיר קראקא - החדשה

************************************************************

שאלה? - למה לא מעניין אותם מה שהלך בעיר קראקא?

תשובה! - כבר יש להם חזקה שלא מעניין אותם בעניני כשרות ובעניני יהדות, וכולם משתוללים על הבנינים הגדולים שבונים שמה עם כל מיני שמות נרדפות של חסידות ורבנות, ישיבות כוללים תלמודי תורה, אבל לאף רב במונסי לא היה איכפת הענינים האלו:

1] כל אחד יודע שהרב ווייסמאנדל נותן הכשר על המאכיל טריפות המתמודד בשארית כוחותיו להיות מן הראשונים במלכות להחטיא את הרבים שקוראים לו רובאשקין, ואם כל זאת שתיקה אוחזת את העיר "קראקא"

2] לפני שאתם הולכים לאכול בשר טרף עם הכשר לכבוד שבת קודש, אתם הולכים לטבול למקוה שיש על על זה הכשר, אבל השאלה היא אם המקוה היא באמת כשירה? או אם כשרות המקוה היא גם כן כשר כמו הבשר עוף?

3] מה כל הרבנים במאנסי עשו כשנתגלה להם שכל העיר אכלו חלב ודם? למה לא כתבו הרבנים שצריכים להכשיר אז את הכלים?

4] האם חלב ודם עם שחיטה טריפה שעל השחיטה הזאת ישנם 70 רבנים שכולם כותבים שהשחיטה הזאת ששוחטים בבאקס או בשחיטה תלויה נבילות וטריפות, האם זה כאב למישהו?

5] מה עשה עיר קראקא, כשנתגלה להם על הטריפות וחזיר אחרי עשרות שנים שכל העיר אכלו את זה, וכל הבתי חיים נתמלאו עם קרבנות צעירים וצעירות בכל יום ויום והם לא ידעו על מה ולמה מגיע להם עונשים כאלו?

6] האם הקראקא החדשה גם כן עשתה ככה?

415

 Sep 10, 2006 at 03:15 PM once a frum jew Says:

if all of you are really such frum and ehrlich yidden what are yo doing on the internet didnt all the rabbonim who you look up to say you shouldnt have internet in your house why do you now all you "frum and ehrlich people" think twice just like treif ruins the lev internet ruins a lot more than that

416

 Sep 10, 2006 at 02:07 PM Anonymous Says:

In response to comment about R' Moishe Green,

I guess he did not have Seyato Dishmaya.

He should do teshuva on behalf of the thousands of bochurim that past through his yeshiva.

Ohy Vei! What a bruch!!!

417

 Sep 10, 2006 at 01:25 PM Anonymous Says:

It is time that we all come to terms with the pressure-cooker we all live in. How are we supposed to stay ehrlich and support a few generations at the same time (ourselves, children and grandchildren)? Until we redesign the "kollel situation", where Litvishe people are presently coerced into undertaking mega-years of support, the butcher and many others will continue having to resort to "treifene zachen" like this and others. When we teach our children in school, that unless we support a ben- Torah for a husband, then we are not living a Torahdik life and not correctly planting the seeds for a Torahdik family, we will continue to force those that can't marry off and support their children honestly, to do so dishonestly.

Are the offspring of those that sat in jail less or more likely to get married, if the parents can come up with the obligatory cash?

Look around you for the answer. Sad as it may be, see how many top Brisker boys have proudly married girls whose scandal-ridden fathers sat in jail and you will have your answer.

Those that cause Chilul Hashem in other sectors- outside of Kashrus- are defaming and defiling as well. Only Hashem can judge which is more or less heinous.

Those in the Chinuch field that encourage one lifestyle as the only right one for all, are causing many such situations with dire consequences in homes all around, such as parents' dissatisfaction with children and children's dissatisfaction with parents and people's dissatisfaction with themselves and Hashem.

Those that promote this expensive situation that is only doable for the ultra rich or ultra simple (not materialistic), must realize the consequences of their actions.

May those that have the power to influence, see the light of the cause of this tragic situation that is effecting us in many areas of our lives.

418

 Sep 10, 2006 at 01:24 PM goombash Says:

kudos to farchapped and his 9 step
suggestions. - I myself made the suggesion at shalosh se'udos of 'rotating the mashgichim'

farchapped - would like to shake your hand if I see you live in monsey for being one of the very few who talks to the point.

419

 Sep 10, 2006 at 01:19 PM goombash Says:

anon 12:26

may be you just don't get it
that the rabbeim (I live in monsey, and have seen) have posted hundreds of posters indicated that the meat was treif.

maybe you haven't heard that MF was arelady asked to leave monsey (Cherem)

maybe you feel there is even 1/10 of 1% chance that MF couldn't have suspected that he sold treif.

or maybe you still have some treif chickens in your freezer that you wish to meant-time enjoy? (stealing this line from Farchapped) in the name of 'loshon hora'?

we serioulsy need to do thsuva over hashem having blinded so many amongst us.

may you be Zoycha to have Kavonoh by "ato chonen l'odom daas"

have a great year

420

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:56 PM Goombash Says:

to anon 5:46 & farcahapped.

anon 5:46 - clearly you have the mentality of what we call in yiddish a FERD. - consider that a compliment, being the understatement that it is.

actually you are 100% correct in your comment about the "godol hador's" grandson - except in reverse.

If anything it is precisely only AFTER M. Tendler was finally expelled from the his shul & the community that it was revealed to us that yidden were eating neveilah. - midah knege'd midah - we tolerated the nevella (M. tendler) for a long time so we were punished with eating neveilah - wen we no longer the Neveila (M. tendler) then and only then were we Zoicha that we should stop eating Neveila.

421

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:26 PM Anonymous Says:

I just want to present a few simple, but essential, points. Please give this your attention.

This refers both to judging someone who may or may not have done something wrong, as well as to someone who has indeed done something very wrong, and the question is how to look at it. Are there any possibilities for any zchusim.

If you are dan 100 percent l'kaf chova and you are right, the benefits are that you got something off your chest and you condemned evil. If you are wrong, or if your intentions are not purely l'shem shamayim, then you may have created a problem for yourself. Moreover, if being dan l'kaf chova brought with it loshon hora, motzee shem ra, or bizui talmid chochom, then even if you were right in the judgment, you could be seriously harming yourself (chas vesholom) via your approach.

Now on the other side, suppose you are dan l'kaf zchus. If you are wrong, nothing terrible happened. You just erred in your judgment. If, however, you are right, you have gained much. Hkb"h is happy when a yid judges others l'kaf zchus, and he in turn will judge you l'kaf zchus where and when you need it. The truth is, even if you were wrong, Hkb"h would be happy with you. This is clear from many places in chazal.

So make a reward/risk calculation. Think about what the benefits and potential losses are for each of the two approaches. And bear in mind that you may be risking a great deal on the negative side.

In this past week's parsha there is a special mention for those who speak loshon hora. The Torah refers to it as makeh ra'ahu b'seser. See what the Torah says about it. In general, the issur on loshon hora holds even if what was said is true, but if it does not comply with the very strict rules for what is permitted to be said.

One more point. The Chofetz Chaim (also in Gur Aryeh by the maharal) points out that the severe onesh given Miriam hanviah was the result of a slight error in her evaluation of Moshe Rabeinu's level — and the same holds for any of us as well when we want to speak negatively about someone. If you miss some aspect of the situation and proceed with the kind of vitriol that many have spewed out, you may have put yourself in a very unenviable postion for yom hadin. There are a number of writers out there that have spoken derogatorily about talmidei chachomim. Maybe they think they are justified. And on the other hand, maybe their appraisals of the situation are in error. Bear in mind what happened to Miriam. And bear in mind that halacha psukah (Yoreh Daeh 243-6,7), one who is mavazeh a talmid chochom, "ain lo chelek etc." (look it up for yourself). As far as who is a talmid chochom today, the Chofetz Chaim poskins (Hilchos loshon hora 8-4) that means anyone who toils in Torah and is fit for hora'ah. See also sonhedrin 99b (who is an apikores) and the Rambm's psak along with the kesef mishneh's comment (tshuvah 3-14).

I realize that most of the people who have no control over their tongues (or pens) will dismiss what I have written here as nonsense. But I write this with the tefilla that maybe just one person will refrain from proceeding because of what has been pointed out.

Some things to consider before writing on this web site. Some things to consider as you prepare for yom hadin.

Birkas ksivah vachasimah tovah to all.

422

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:12 PM Anonymous Says:

many Glatt Kosher stores DO NOT date their meat packages as required by federal law. perhaps if this law was enforced this type of fraud would have been discovered Treifa Chicken scandal much SOONER rather than LATER.

423

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:07 PM Anonymous Says:

to all chareidishe yiden please dont eat his hecsher regardles so u want get nicshel again BS"D

424

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:03 PM Anonymous Says:

please stop passing stories as "facts"

425

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Is the Meeting from the Monsey Rabonim finish? and if so, what are their findings?

426

 Sep 10, 2006 at 11:58 AM Anonymous Says:

No as of Sunday the Rabonim of Monsey not saying much lots more to come and more than M Finkel involved in this Treifa Chicken scandal

427

 Sep 10, 2006 at 11:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Is Moshe Finkel the guy that sold Treifa Chicken as Kosher in Monsey alone on this or more people involved with him?? What is the Rabonim of Monsey Saying? Is it only local or in the whole New York

428

 Sep 10, 2006 at 11:25 AM Anonymous Says:

click here to see a picture of Moshe Finkel the guy that sold Treifa Chicken as Kosher in Monsey 09/2006

429

 Sep 10, 2006 at 11:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Can someone post a picture of the Machatee Ess Horabbim, so everyone can spit into his face when he is seen?

430

 Sep 10, 2006 at 11:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Has anyone heard of another letter put up by Rabbi Weissmandel this Friday that there may be 4 other stores (not necessarilly in Monsey) that may have a problem now because the meat they are repackaging was not the meat they were supposed to have?
I heard it from a chassidishe guy this morning who said he saw the letter of Friday.

can abyone shed some light on this?

431

 Sep 10, 2006 at 10:54 AM Anonymous Says:

The owner of shavach meat Moshe Finkel came early this morning about 2:00 am. to Hatslucha Grocery and was talking to the owners.

432

 Sep 10, 2006 at 10:54 AM Anonymous Says:

bottom line

-------

State says nonkosher-chicken investigation shouldn't take long, so until then we let him in our schools, shuls, mikvhas, etc?

this is crazy, why wosnt anyone stood up and made a good moshkanto on him??

where are you people?

433

 Sep 10, 2006 at 10:52 AM Anonymous Says:

SPRING VALLEY — A state investigation into the sale of possibly nonkosher chicken by a local butcher is expected to be completed by early next week.

Jessica A. Chittenden, a spokeswoman for the state's Department of Agriculture and Markets, said the state agency that had quarantined 15 cases of chicken last week from Hatzlocha Grocery would have the results of salt testing — a key ingredient in koshering — by Tuesday.

In addition, Chittenden said, the agency also wants to, among other things, find out if the chicken was ever certified kosher and by whom and how it was advertised in the Maple Avenue kosher supermarket.

"We're trying to clarify the facts because there are a lot of allegations out there," she said.

She added that a merchant found to be passing off nonkosher foods as kosher could face a maximum $1,000 fine.

Moshe Finkel, the owner of Shevach Meats, has been accused of stocking the shelves at the supermarket with nonkosher chicken that was labeled as kosher.

Finkel, who rents space for his butcher shop behind the Hatzlocha Grocery, bought meat in bulk, and then sliced, packaged and sold it at the grocery store and to wedding halls, religious schools and upstate Hasidic camps.

Finkel, who lives in Monsey, has remained largely out of sight and was not at his home yesterday morning. He did not return phone calls left on an answering machine. Many in the community have speculated that he has left the state.

Since store owners found nonkosher chicken in Finkel's butcher shop last week, after discovering that he had not been getting deliveries from a regular distributor, many in the deeply religious Orthodox Jewish community have hurried to kasher — or make kosher — utensils they had used to prepare Shevach Meats chicken.

A coalition of local rabbis this week advised that anyone who had purchased any meat from Finkel, in his nearly decade-long association with Hatzlocha Grocery, should have their utensils purified because they do not know how long nonkosher chicken had been sold there.

Kashering venues, where Jews can bring pots and pans and dip them in boiling water, were set up throughout the community since the sabbath ended Sunday.

Some appliances and other items cannot be kashered, so many families have had to buy new pots and pans and get rid of older convection ovens and toaster ovens.

Both Ramapo and Spring Valley police said yesterday no criminal charges had been filed against Finkel.

"I think the whole mess is an aberration," Rikki Spivak said yesterday as she packed her car after shopping at Monsey Glatt Kosher Supermarket. "It's not representative of the entire industry. It's a greed thing. I don't think people should be walking around afraid of food."

The Monsey woman said she was unaffected by the nonkosher chicken scandal because she shopped at Hatzlocha so infrequently. But she said she knew many friends and family members who had to throw out dishes and utensils.

"There shouldn't be any less trust at this point," Spivak said. "There has to be a degree of trust."

Shimon Mendlowitz, who owns Monsey Glatt and Wesley Kosher on Route 306, said he had noticed an increase in customers buying their meats from him, but he said that may also have to do with people returning from vacation and preparing for the high holy days.

Mendlowitz said he packaged all his meats at the store, but there was no issue whether his food was kosher.

"Some people have asked questions, but I have reassured them," he said.

434

 Sep 10, 2006 at 10:40 AM Anonymous Says:

I justheard in shul that the scandal is spreading to Boro-Park Flatbush. A well known Chasuna Hall, and a butcher purchased meats and chickens from Shevach.

435

 Sep 10, 2006 at 10:37 AM Anonymous Says:

our community in the FIVE TOWNS is not as holy as monsey.Our rabbonim are not gedolim like the rabbonim in monsey.I guess that's why the FIVE TOWNS VAAD insists on all butchers having a masgiach temidi.

436

 Sep 10, 2006 at 10:00 AM Anonymous Says:

anyone know where finkel is?? does he have children in any of the schools?

437

 Sep 10, 2006 at 08:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Is there still somebody out there saying that MF is NOT GUILTY?? I wanna hear from them!!!

438

 Sep 10, 2006 at 08:30 AM Anonymous Says:

I feel bad for all those that ate "Loy Olainu' non-kosher meat ets. but lets face the facts and being that it is chodesh eleul. we should search ourselves and see whuy it happend to us and try and correct ourselve so that it should not happen again. with a little help from above we can correct ourselves and stop looking at who is a fault, who ever is at fault will get his judgement from above. there is a g-d and he those not need our help, so lets act with real tyrue 'ahavas yisroel' stop this loshon horoh drill.
As the Lubavitcher Rebbe Z"L said many times that with acts of goodness and kindness we will bring Moshiach so all of us together we want moshiach now!!!.

439

 Sep 10, 2006 at 04:05 AM Anonymous Says:

What a rasha

440

 Sep 10, 2006 at 04:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Wowa real nebech suprised hes still alive . I am thankful hes hiding because they will find him quicker then the 10 most wanted by the fbi.How could someone screw the whole klal yisrael right in front of there face its unreal i cant beleive my eyes

441

 Sep 10, 2006 at 03:39 AM Anonymous Says:

I saw this on another blog.

"Monsey Rosh Yeshivah, R' Moishe Green, seeks death penalty for Treife Butcher

R' Moishe Green, a prominent Rosh Yeshivah in Monsey, has publicly expressed how heart-broken he is over having unknowingly fed Treifes to thousands of his Talmidim over the years. His Yeshivah was a regular customer of Shevach Meats and they would purchase all their chicken for the Yeshivah Bocherim's suppers there. R' Moishe Green further said that if Beis Din would have the Koach today, they would be Mechayiv Missah to this butcher."

442

 Sep 10, 2006 at 03:18 AM farchapped Says:

Leaving aside all the comments, loshon hora, hysteria, innuendo etc. previously posted about this terrible story it seems the focus should be on how to prevent such a story from happening again. Of the posts I read (I admit I couldn't get through all 600+) I didn't see much on the topic, so for what it's worth here are my (admitted layman's) suggestions:

1) if we can't elminate them completely by cutting and packing meat and poulty at the slaughterhouse, then meat repackagers should be required to have hashgocho temidus.
2) the mashgiach must have the only keys to the locks on the cooler.
3) the suppliers to any certified kosher food vendor must send a copy of every invoice to the hashgocho, and must notify the hoshgocho if it is stopping to supply the vendor or if there is a dramatic change in the ordering pattern...no differnt than the insurance company notifying your home mortgage holder or the motor-vehicle bureau if you drop insurance.
4) the hoshgocho must check sales receipts against invoices at least monthly and they need to match. Cash transactions should not be allowed.
5) The Hashgocho should not trust any proprietor, no matter how religious he seems. After all he/she is in business to make a profit.
6) in the event of a catastrophic failure on their watch, the hoshgocho must exit the business, as I understand Cong. Beis Tefilah is doing (at least according to the posters hung around town purportedly written by them).
7) mashgichim must be rotated periodically (at least quarterly)so they don't get too comfortable in one place..perhaps Hashgochos should be rotated as well.
8) a system must be instituted with tags or whatever so that the meat or poutlry can be tracked back to the ultimate source. There seems to be no way under our current system to track the meat once it leaves the slaughterhouse, no tamper-proof way to identify it once it is at the distributer.
9) the labels/seals must be changed periodically to make them more difficult to copy.

443

 Sep 10, 2006 at 02:20 AM Anonymous Says:

The poor gaon Harav Yaakov Yosef zt'l actually suffered a severe stroke because the butchers and others opposed his Kashrus
reforms! He spent the last ten years or so of his life debilitated.
May Hashem avenge his suffering at
the hands of those reshaim!!!

444

 Sep 10, 2006 at 01:53 AM Anonymous Says:

anon @ 5:46 - way to go!

445

 Sep 10, 2006 at 01:48 AM Anonymous Says:

No finkel is NOT INNOCENT!

He is absolutely GUILTY!!

STOP LYING!!!!

Rav Breslauer and ALL other Rabbonim in Rockland County are admitting that Finkel is GUILTY!

Don’t you realize that by taking sides with this ‘cruel animal’ you will burn in gehenim with him? (You probably will burn for other reasons as well – no need to add reasons)

Some of you guys who are probably are also guilty somehow just keep on lying and I can't imagine why these bloggs get posted!!

Chillul Hashem!

Rabboisai!

Get the FACTS straight!

FACT: Treifa chicken was sold by shevach way BEFORE the freezer there was broken open!! People returned treifa chicken sold MONTHS ago!!

FACT: People complained to shevach/finkel for months that ‘something is not the same with the looks and taste of the chicken’. How come finkel didn’t check it out and ‘find’ out that someone was tricking him???

FACT: finkel was a learned man, gave a daf yomi shiur, was baal korah, baal teffilah, & baal darshan and a butcher. finkels father was a Rav, his brothers (or uncles) are choshuva rabbonim or roshei yeshivas (NO this is not a fact, I’m not exactly sure who is what – correct me if you know). He should have seen that the chicken is treifa and that he was fooled! He didn’t realize because he did it himself KNOWINGLY! Not a single theory can excuse his actions – every one excuse imaginable was tried by his friends (his shittfim) Mafia, Fooled, Framed, Forced, Desperate for money!!! It all stinks! It’s all lies!!

FACT: finkel did admit that he sold chickens with KJ labels when he “thought” (shekker) it was Empire! Is this excuseable?

FACT: Not a single Rav in town is saying ‘lets wait and not judge because he might still be innocent’! They all admit that he sold treifas knowingly! Some Rabbonim said that according to halacha, if someone sees him then he has to yell “ROSHO”

FACT: Never in the history by us yidden did such a terrible thing happen! NEVER!! Even in the times of the Megalah Amikus in Krakow the story was not so bad. Do you know why? Because the two butchers were unlearned yesomim that were tortchered by their brutal uncle and out of desperation sold treifas without knowing what a harsh aveiro they did! As soon as they found out they did complete teshuvah!
I didn’t hear anywhere that finkel admitted to anything…) One thing is certain; he WAS learned!!! He knew clearly what he did!!! Shreklach!!!

FACT: finkel was the only Yid in his butcher. He hired only goyim! Kosher meat may never be left alone with goyim!! Finkel wasn’t in the butcher shop all the time- he left it to the goyim only….

There are more facts to the story, but I am posting only stuff that I verified to be true…

If you have other FACTS please post.

446

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:47 AM Anonymous Says:

The Rabbonim should not let any grocery stores sell meat, only meat stores. the meat stores should have a mashgiach ALL the time.

447

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:44 AM Anonymous Says:

I don't understand why are you people just dropping the point? I wanna know whats happening, where is the man who sold this chicken and what does he have to say for himself. What are the rabbonim saying. How long has this been going on? Please lets focus on the main point.

448

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:44 AM Anonymous Says:

we need mashiach FAST!

449

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:24 AM Anonymous Says:

I WILL ONLY EAT FROM A PLACE WERE THERE IS A MASHGIACH ALL THE TIME THERE

450

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:22 AM Anonymous Says:

I FELL BAD FOR ANYBODY THAT ATE IT

451

 Sep 10, 2006 at 12:10 AM Anonymous Says:

Rabbi Shain? Expert? The man is an idiot. period.
Rabbi Shain has made so many comments about different things and was proven wrong many times by experts in the field of kashrus and refused to change his opinions.

An expert is someone who can verify things because he saw with his eyes and has PROOF and KNOWLEDGE and CAN PROVE in a court of law and be undesputable about a subject.

Rabbi Shain many times has said things about certain companies when in fact he NEVER FLEW to the company to verify, talk to masshgichim or anyone about anything......

The man is a complete moron because he talks out of his OK.

452

 Sep 09, 2006 at 11:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Did any Rabbonim talk about this subject over shabbos?
No I am not asking for Lashon Horah,just to hear the Musar part.

453

 Sep 09, 2006 at 10:53 PM Anonymous Says:

To Anonymous 5:46
You write:
"This happened in Monsey and not Boro Park, Flatbush, Williamsburg, etc... You know why? Because here in Monsey is where the big chushiveh gedoilim disgraced the gudul hador's ainikl without letting him defend himself."

This "gudul hador's ainikl" (Mordechai Tendler)had relations with no less than 4 married women.
There was a 15 month investigation by the RCA an organization that he himself was a member for over 30 years, and he never said a bad word about them ... they kicked him out after they found him guilty. The RCA gave him every opportunity to defend himself. Yeshivah University fired him after doing their own investigation.
Contrary to what you write that he was never given his day in Bais Din, this pervert appeared in front Harav Yisroel Hager Shlitah, and he found him to be a liar and a fraud. This Tendler also appeared in front of the Bais Din of Harav Zimmerman Shlitah, and they found him to be unworthy of being a Rav in Klall Yisroel!

This Mordechai Tendler is a disgrace to Klall Yisroel and to say that happened because the Rabbonim found him to be a "noif" is misleading and out and out discusting.

454

 Sep 09, 2006 at 09:52 PM Anonymous Says:

From what I heard,he is innocent.
I have said before,Don't be quick to judge others.As far as I am concerned, you all have to ask and beg from him M'Chila.

455

 Sep 08, 2006 at 09:49 PM Anonymous Says:

What? חוץ די אידישקייט איז דא א פאר מיליאן דאלער,שאדן , אין אפילו מער, פין כלים,(-אין דא איז צו דערמאנען אלע וואס האבן דארט נאך געקויפט פסח צו זעכער מאכען דאס צו טאן אויך מיט די פסחדיגע כלים -אין עס עקסטערע כשרן נישט אין חמצדיגע טעפ) וואס אידישע קינדער האבן געמוזט ארויס ווארפען
איך וואלט פארגעשלאגען צו מאכן קלעים דעפארטמענט אין עם לייגן אין באנקארט אין פארקויפען זיין הויז אין אלע פראפעטיעס (אויב ער פארמאגט))

456

 Sep 08, 2006 at 06:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Hey gang ,After throwing out your dishwasher and touvling all your dishes and flatware DON'T forget where your Pesach roast and chicken came from. You must do at least the very same for all your Pesach dishes,otherwise I can't come to your seder.

457

 Sep 08, 2006 at 05:46 PM Anonymous Says:

This happened in Monsey and not Boro Park, Flatbush, Williamsburg, etc... You know why? Because here in Monsey is where the big chushiveh gedoilim disgraced the gudul hador's ainikl without letting him defend himself. Even now the bihaimus is that stable kick him when he is down. Every minute they were doing so they were eating tarfus mamish - what big kinockers they turned out to be.

458

 Sep 08, 2006 at 05:14 PM Anonymous Says:

WHERE IS MOSHA FINKEL? I WANNA HEAR HIS READING OF THE TORAH THIS WEEK!!!

459

 Sep 08, 2006 at 04:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Anon 3:23 Just by writing in all the blogs and all the chatrooms and sending out newspaper like paper that they are "Mosrim" doesn't make them so, look in the instant matter with Shevach you are only one week into the story and you already have several "Kol Koras" declerations from every rabbi in town denouncing MF for what he did, I have yet to see ONE single rabbi writing on them what you are trying so hard for so long , to the contrary there are many rabbanim who are saying the opposite then you that they were victims here and they had every right to do what they did!!! So why cry wolf? I am not naiive at all!!!!

460

 Sep 08, 2006 at 03:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Rav Weissmandel stopping to certify repackaging at All Fresh!

Let's hope the repackaging business stops altogether!!

461

 Sep 08, 2006 at 03:23 PM Anonymous Says:

to 2:48

you must be out of your mind!!!!!!!!

Who is the "victim" over here?

They are "Mosrim", be careful not to speak freely in front of them, because you never know, you might get in to a fight with them over a Parking spot and to teach you a lesson they might just...... you know what.

So don’t be so Naive!!!!!!!!!!!

462

 Sep 08, 2006 at 03:02 PM Anonymous Says:

to anon 2.48, I have know idea what you ar reffering t. I assure you that I have absolutely no benefit from what ever you are referring to. I just mentioned that tidbit, because when I heard that these people are involved however remotely, a certain chunk of the puzzle fell in place. If anything, G-d has some sense of humor to have this whole incident come about through such fine people. Is it coincidance or???

463

 Sep 08, 2006 at 02:58 PM Anonymous Says:

I once head from someone, that eishes eesh, nu, nisht geferlich, cholev akim, nu, nisht geferlich, but coca cola, sheigetz arois.
the issue here is not lashon hora, it is basic fundamentalissues that all of yiddishkeit is all about. Many not frum jews, who say that they are jews in the heart cannot say that any more. Even their heart is now treif. If we cannot talk about this, and get some major changes, what will become of our whole religion

464

 Sep 08, 2006 at 02:48 PM Anonymous Says:

to anon 1;54 stop spreading around Loshon Hora and lies you are creating a mockery of the people who are victim's here who are suffering of what REALLY happened and not what you would have liked it to be!!!! for your own personnel benefit.

465

 Sep 08, 2006 at 02:40 PM Anonymous Says:

TO ANON 1:54 I AM NOT FROM THIS FAMILY AT ALL, BUT I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO, WHICH IS BESMIRCHING A FAMILY BECAUSE OF A DISPUTE, PLEASE DO NOT DO THAT OVER HERE, THIS BLOG IS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO FIND INFO , NOT PERSONNAL FIGHTS.
THANK YOU
SHABBAT SHALOM

466

 Sep 08, 2006 at 02:21 PM Anonymous Says:

What is with food sold in all the take-out places? Shouldn't we find out which take-out stores bought shevach.
A lot of people who never bought from Hatzlocho don't kasher their kitchens, but what do we do if we bought from the take-out places.
How can we find out?

467

 Sep 08, 2006 at 02:19 PM Yachtchoo Says:

Breaking News!

Just in...

**** Blogger sues VOS IZ NEIAS for disturbing his learning!...


Can't you turn your ringer off when you sit down to learn?

468

 Sep 08, 2006 at 02:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Don't Yidden have enough Tzaros.I am sure this person feels bad. Just drop the subject so I can go back to my learning undisturbed.

469

 Sep 08, 2006 at 01:54 PM Anonymous Says:

`I hear from the grapevine that the meat came from a long island distributor, and that one of the principles is a very fine upstanding citizen, who I am sure will do all so the truth come out. As a matter of fact, this fine man and his bother that also works there, testified in court against their uncle, who is now in jail. In fact at the trial, the judge suggested that his testimony is enough already, but he insisted on spilling everything out, so the the truth should be known.
I know that you will be reluctant to post this blog, because they are so adamant about this that they are ready to me mosser/musser nefesh.. especially yours, so you are afraid that the world know.

470

 Sep 08, 2006 at 01:42 PM Anonymous Says:

its not a time to blame .its a time that we MEFASFESH BEMASIM WHY THIS HAPPEND TO US the Gemura says that the cow of reb PINCHAS BEN YOUIR didnt want to eat what its not allowed EIN HAKODOSH BAURECH HEE MYVEE TAKOLAH so lets take on our self to be better

471

 Sep 08, 2006 at 01:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Yeh! I have full confident that he was framed...
That’s why all those "FALSE" stories are coming out - the way he cheated the frum WORLD for years!
Right! All of these stories are bluff!
Only Mr F's story is absolutely true!
Yup!
You gotta be a YEKKA to be 'dan lkaff zechus' such a criminal! As long as he is a Yekka.
You would not talk this way if this would have happened to a chossid! (Which I have a feeling never would)!!!!!!!!!!
(Now don’t start making up full of stories like these on Chassidim – Hey! It aint gonna work - these lies)!

472

 Sep 08, 2006 at 01:29 PM Anonymous Says:

To the one who asked me, would I eat from his meat, why not, as long as he has a Chazkus Kashrus,his meat is Kosher. For some reason everybody assumes the worst, and yet I have not seen any proof.

473

 Sep 08, 2006 at 01:26 PM Anonymous Says:

OK! Your right!

I guess the guy saying ‘to burn’ a house down or ‘break bones’ – those are extreme actions, but

What about a demonstration?

What about making sure there are no copycats?

What about not letting him get away with only $1000 penalty? He needs to be haunted… Get what I’m saying?

474

 Sep 08, 2006 at 01:24 PM Anonymous Says:

RECENTLY SAW THAT THE SWISS CHEESE COMPANYS WERE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH STOLEN GOODS AND COPIES HENCE THEY ARE PUTTING A TINY SIZED INVISIBLE COMPUTER CHIP INTO SIDE OF CHEESE WHICH WILL TRAC AND VERIFY THAT GOODS ARE ORIGINAL
SEEMS LIKE A GOOD IDEA FOR MEAT /CHICKEN PURVEYERS TO LOOK INTO THIS TECHNOLOGY WHICH CAN ALLEVIATE ALOT OF THE PROBLEMS DISCUSSED ON THIS BLOG AS FAR AS ACCOUNTIBILITY OF GOODS WHERE ITS AT AT ANY GIVEN TIME AND IF ITS TAMPERED WITH OR GOES TO A PLACE IT ISNT SUPPOSED TO BE IT WOULD NOTIFY SENDER IMMEDIATELY VIA COMPUTER

475

 Sep 08, 2006 at 01:12 PM Rivky B. Says:

This whole story is just so obsured! I dream about it every day, and when I get to work and want to talk about it,my workmates get so nervous,"there she goes again with the chicken story."

It's mind boggling how a frum jewish person, a mashgiach and Ba'al Korea can fall so steeply just for money or I don't know why else.

476

 Sep 08, 2006 at 12:13 PM Anonymous Says:

looks like we B"H still have a lot of people that worry
only re Loshon Horah

but TRIFA is not so geferlich you know
we could find a hater for this mybe its only a setup
maybe the judge will say it was not
wait and enjoy your trifa if you could still find some in your frizer

477

 Sep 08, 2006 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:

anon at 10:52-
Go to some place else and post your garbage there.
No one who frequents this blog in interested in your trashy comments.

478

 Sep 08, 2006 at 11:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Dear Editor,

I'd like to weigh in on a couple of thoughts from out in the boondocks.
We live in a world where we like to believe that perception is reality.
We judge people by the environment they are in, the clothes they where,
the moves, the looks and the shprach.

Once again our greater Jewish community is shaken from those core
commitments. A frum butcher, in a frum store, in a frum neighborhood, is
blatantly accused of fooling customers by mislabeling treif chickens as
kosher.

The story is not clear as who is to blame. It will be, but for the
purpose of this writer it makes no difference whether it was the
butcher, the distributor, the Mashgiah, the Rav HaMachshir or the
landlord.

Until the scandal each one of them had something we know as a chezkas
kashrus. So we were happy walking into a store seeing a sea of black
jackets, a bunch of beards, barrels of pickles with exclusively haimishe
hashgacha, and we bought to outrhearts content. No questions as to who
is the Rav HaMachshir, who is the butcher, who is the distributor or the
meat packer.

The ambience of kashrus had permeated the store with its every product
bedecked with Hebrew letters and heimish names coronating it with the
crown of kashrus.

I say the greater community, and I don't want to totally exclude myself,
but maybe I'm like the fellow in one of Rabbi Krohn's stories.

The Rabbi was preaching to a packed crowd. The mood was somber and tense as he expounded on the gravity of sin. He exhorted the massed to repent - to do teshuva - and to come back to the faith and laws of their Creator. Then he added the clincher. He was reluctant to use the power of those words, but he knew that they would stir his audience. "Does everybody in this community know what is going to happen to them?" He asked. "Everyone in this community is going to die!" Everyone in the audience was aghast with fear. The somberness of the moment was captured in the deep creases that suddenly formed upon their faces. Except for one elderly gentleman who sat in the second row directly in front of the rabbi. He had a broad smile on his face. In fact, he was chuckling. The rabbi was disturbed. Perhaps the old timer did not get the point. In even louder tones the rabbi implored, "It is time to repent!" Then he added, this time with increased fervor, "Did you hear me? Everyone in this community is going to die!" The man's smile broadened. He seemed numb to the countenance of his fellow listeners - the rabbi's words simply had no effect on him. The rabbi stared directly at him and with a passion in his voice, he asked "What's the matter with you? Don't you realize that everyone in this community is going to die?"
The old man stared back, his smile broader than ever. "Heh Heh! He chuckled. It's alright rabbi, I'm not from this community!"

Well, Yated readers, I am not from "this community." I don't live in
Monsey. I live out of town. And when I see Hebrew letters on a bag of
popcorn, a thrill runs up my spine. WOW! How's they do that!

And when my kids see a stranger with a yarmulke, or a stranger with a
beard and payos, they get as excited as if one of the Gedolim flew in
from Eretz Yisrael!

So in a world where Yiddishkiet is always hiding behind the apron of the
secular, if not Baptist Society. I envied all of those who take kashrus
for granted. I envied all of those of you whose hashgacha is not
dependent upon the swiftness or the sharpness of the knife that
slaughtered the chicken, but rather by the length of the payos or the
frock or the bekeshe of the fellow who sold it.

So in my little town, I have to ask questions. "Where did this meat come
from? Mr. Butcher, are you Shomer Shabbos? Where did you learn how to salt meat. Who was there at the delivery?

And when you answer, "The Mashgiach was there," I respond. "Oh? The
mashgiach? Who is the Mashgiach? And whose in charge of him? Was he there when the meat was unloaded? Did he see the seal?"

And when you tell me the name of the Rav HaMachshir, I have to ask what the fact that he knows how to teach, or give a great drasha or explain a Shach has to do with his ability to understand supply and demand and realize whether or not chickens are falling off the back of a truck.

What was the worst kashrus scenario that he dealt with? Did a butcher
ever try to pull a fast one on him? Did the owner of the shop ever
threaten him.

OK So they know me in town as a nudnik. But they respect me. I am the
Ben Torah. I am the Yeshiva Man. The fruumie. I am not ridiculed by
asking the questions. And believe it or not, the butcher, the mashgiach,
the Rav haMachshir take pride in answering them. They know I take
nothing for granted. And I can't.

My butcher has no little payalach to impress me. He doesn't where a
black hat. He wears the cap of the local football team and doesn't try
to impress me with his piety. He just wants me to know that he is a
simple butcher and follows the rules that his Rabbi set for him.

He does not have the keys to the freezer. He can't get in there by
himself. Oh. he's frum allright. But he does not even want the keys. He
sayss that's the way it was with the last butcher and he said that's
fine by him. And let the Mashgiach open the vault.

So I am stuck in the world where I have to ask questions. I have to eat
Heinz Ketchup and Hellman's mayonnaise (two products that were left
untainted by the vinegar scandal some 20 years ago). And unless some
cousin flies in from Boro Park, I am stuck with Wise potato chips. Yep,
I live with the Goyim. And I have to always be on guard when I walk into
my butcher store.

But you know what. It sure beats eating treife chickens.

Signed

A Jew who takes nothing for granted somewhere in the Carolinas.

479

 Sep 08, 2006 at 11:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Anan 11:24 AM, Are you still eating from Shevach meats???

480

 Sep 08, 2006 at 11:24 AM Anonymous Says:

I knew he is innocent.
I am still waiting from instructions from higher up to prove me wrong.

481

 Sep 08, 2006 at 11:18 AM yiddish mamma Says:

The Journal News wrote this morning again about it, and also wrote about VOS IS NEIAS, that it has almost 600 comments on this story!

Rabbis call for utensil purifying
By SULAIMAN BEG
sbeg@lohud.com
THE JOURNAL NEWS
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060908/NEWS03/609080382/1019/NEWS03

Original publication: September 8, 2006)



SPRING VALLEY — A coalition of local rabbis is advising Jews to have their cooking utensils purified if they have purchased meat in the past decade from a local butcher accused of selling nonkosher chicken.

The Tuesday night decision by rabbis from Spring Valley, Monsey and New Square, in consultation from rabbis in Israel, follows the discovery by owners of a kosher supermarket that the owner of Shevach Meats was stocking shelves with nonkosher chicken.

Rabbi Mordechai Orbach, head of the Congregation Sharei Teflah in Monsey, said 20 rabbis came together to discuss the case and conduct interviews with those involved to see how long the non-kosher chicken was being sold at Hatzlocha Grocery on Maple Avenue.

Orbach said the rabbis decided that anyone who purchased any meat from Shevach Meats, during the congregation's nearly 10-year association with the supermarket, should kasher — or make kosher — their utensils when it could not be determined how long the nonkosher chicken was being sold.

"Because of the suspicions we had with the chickens, we lost reliability on any meat," Orbach said. "The community is devastated. That is the word. Heartbroken."

Orbach said the rabbis checked out Hatzlocha's purchase and sales records, as well as talking with an employee of Shevach Meats.

The rabbis learned that purchases from the store's regular distributors, such as KJ Chicken, Vineland Kosher Poultry and Alle Meats, had decreased, but sales of their products had increased, Orbach said.

"The only result is that there was some other source," he said, adding that because of an investigation by the state's Department of Agriculture and Markets, he could not name the alleged supplier.

The owner of Shevach Meats, Moshe Finkel, has been accused of stocking the shelves of Hatzlocha Grocery with nonkosher chicken and labeling it kosher. Finkel, who rents space for his butcher shop behind the supermarket, bought kosher chicken and other meats in bulk, and then sliced, packaged and sold them at the grocery store and to wedding halls, religious schools and upstate Hasidic camps.

Finkel did not return calls to his Monsey home yesterday.

Last week, store owners discovered that Finkel had not been getting deliveries from a regular distributor and when they searched the butcher shop found nonkosher chicken.

Orbach said he spoke with Finkel on Sunday and that the butcher told him that "his greed got the best of him."

"He also said he was convinced by the source that it was kosher," Orbach said, adding that when Finkel packaged the meat, he placed false labels on the chicken.

Orbach said the rabbis also concluded that the store owners were "victims like the rest of us," and absolved Rabbi Shlomo Breslauer and Rabbi Shlomo Ullman, who supervised the butcher shop, of any blame, as they could not have had any knowledge of what was being delivered because shipments were made when the store was closed.

Kashering venues, where Jews can bring pots and pans and dip them in boiling water, were set up throughout the community since the sabbath ended Sunday.

Orbach said self-cleaning convection ovens could easily be made kosher, but older convection models and toaster ovens would have to be replaced.

The state agency quarantined 15 cases of the chicken yesterday and sent samples to be tested for salt, a key ingredient in koshering. A spokesman could not be reached for comment yesterday, but published reports said those suspected of passing nonkosher foods as kosher could face a $1,000 fine.

The issue has reached a frenzy on assorted Jewish Web blogs, with one blog, Voz Iz Neis, receiving nearly 600 comments on its posting.

"Once we were convinced that he definitely sold nonkosher chicken, then it became a very clear-cut case," said Rabbi Menachem Meir Weissmandel of Chemed Shul in Monsey. "People in the community are very hurt. It's like going to the bottom. It's the worst of the worst."

Weissmandel, who runs a kosher supervision agency but did not deal with Finkel's butcher shop, said the case seemed to be an isolated one and did not tarnish the rabbinical supervision process elsewhere.

"The Jewish law says his reputation is tarnished," Weissmandel said, referring to Finkel.

Rabbi Meir Libersohn, who runs a Merckosher, an Argentina-based kosher supervision agency, said he sent out an e-mail informing people who might be visiting the area about the Shevach Meats situation, as well as those in the community who may have purchased food from the butcher.

482

 Sep 08, 2006 at 11:15 AM yiddish mamma Says:

Hamodia, All the Yiddish newspapers, the NY times, Journal News, all reported on this story, and spelled it all out as to who is guilty here.

The YATED (which represents the Litvish or Yeshivish oilem) IS STIL IN DENIEL!! No word, as if nothing took place!

483

 Sep 08, 2006 at 11:11 AM Anonymous Says:

There seem to be some commentators out there that do not have the foggiest idea about what constitutes loshon hora, what constiturtes motzee shem ra, what constitutes mevazeh talmid chochom, and what are the halachos of being dan l'kav zchus (including someone who has done something wrong, but where there is the possibility there was extreme duress and perhaps even inyanai sakanah). Each of thse is far more chamur than eating navailah. The first three mentioned couold cost olam haboh if carried far enough. Being mevazeh a talmid chochom give one a status of apikoress (see what the Chofetz Chaim says about this in his sefer by that name and otherr seforim) and causes one to lose his status as ameeesechah. Bear in mind too, that any of these avairos perpertrated on a web site has an enormous impact and tshuvah for this is difficult if not impossible. (Again, see what the C.C. says abot loshon hora l'rabim). I strongly suggest that some of the writers here give serious thought to what they have to say before they publize their comments.

484

 Sep 08, 2006 at 10:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Shouldn't we find out which take-out stores also had his meat?
Some people think that their kitchen is ok because they never bought at Hazlocho. What if we bought from take-out places (who maybe also were delivered by MF), so we all have to kasher our kitchens.
This is a very serious concern and we have to find out

485

 Sep 08, 2006 at 10:45 AM Anonymous Says:

597 comments of loshon horah and r'chilus. It is becoming pretty clear that MF may have been framed. A PI has been hired by a few rabbonim in the kashrus industry we should have positive proof of the results by Tuesday.
Furthermore, you can have the best mashgiach in the world as long as there is collusion to fool him it will be IMPOSSIBLE for him to discover it. It is no different that the Enron and Arthur Anderson fiascos.

486

 Sep 08, 2006 at 10:42 AM Seph Einber Says:

How about we get all the Rabunim and Dayunim for a meeting, and we Baalei Batim will talk, we will say how THEY have to Teshuveh, and to give them a TIKUN, we relied on them, we trusted them, we thought (and we still think so) that we can trust the Rabunim and Mashgichim, I like the way they come up with ways for us to do Teshuveh, we didn't do something wrong, if we would of gone to McDonalds, we can be criticized, but whats our Fault for going to a Kosher Grocery with a Kosher Certification of a prominent rabbi, and we were fed Nveilos.
lets not get lost
THEY, The Rabunim and All the new-mashgichim-comers, need a tikun, and a way to do Teshuveh.

487

 Sep 08, 2006 at 10:04 AM Anonymous Says:

I guess the Monsey/SV people are too busy 'Kashering' - and doing 'teshuvah' they don't have time for Mr F. - but as soon as they are done, I'm sure they will track him down "WHEREVER" he may be!!!

488

 Sep 08, 2006 at 10:02 AM Anonymous Says:

In Eretz Yisroel - In Boro Park - or in any other place in the world;
This 'wicked animal' would have had broken bones already!
His house would have been burnt down!
His shul would be vandalized!
The street would be covered with dirty letters against him!
There would be demonstrations by his home; by his shul; by the baal machshers home; by the baal machshers shul; by the mashgiachs home & shul...

You Monsey Lazy backward people - -
Just sit and cry!
No wonder you were so gullible!!!

489

 Sep 08, 2006 at 09:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Something to think about:

Before WW II, Agudas Yisroel was represented in the Polish Parliment as a political party. During one election, many Orthodox Jews failed to support the Aguda party, causing a major lose in their representation.

An activist told Reb Yeruchom Levovitz zt'l that he couldn't sleep the previous night because of his distress for Kvod Shomayim. Reb Yeruchom commented, that the same person's sleep was not effected on Yom Kippur despite his sins commited the previous year. Clearly his righteous indignation were tainted by other motives than pure Kvod Shomayim.

Rabbonim are surely in the best position to help us navigate through this difficult time...

490

 Sep 08, 2006 at 09:56 AM Anonymous Says:

People are trying to find reasons why Finkel did this horrific thing to us like:
1)Pressured life
2)Needed money for tuition, camp...
3) Mentally sick
4)Crooked wife
5)Mafia and so on...

NONE OF THE ABOVE

He did it because he obviously was not afraid of "ayin royah" and because...

He knew that he is TRUSTED and no one will ever walk into his freezer (right under our nose!!)and see the 'treifas'!!!
He was 'bichlall not afraid!
For years no one challanged him!!!
He didn't even have to hide the treifa in some hidden cellar in a non jewish neighborhood!

He knew without a doubt that that his mashgiach will NEVER catch him!

Thanks for the fact that he was such a ganevv and owes so much money - that this horrible period came to an end!

He knew that the nicer he 'davened' and the nicer he 'layned' the less he whould be susspicious!

'Soiff ganevv litliah'!!!

491

 Sep 08, 2006 at 09:44 AM Yachtchoo Says:

R' Breslauer wants you to fast for YOUR benefit!!
No difference whose fault it is!!!
Be happy that there is a way to teshuvah!

492

 Sep 08, 2006 at 09:33 AM Anonymous Says:

***URGENT INFORMATION*** While this was being typed, a prominent Monsey Rov called me to please advise everyone that this store was delivering meats to the CATSKILLS / Bungalow Colony’s. Please check to make sure that you did not have these meats in your possession (You might have brought the Treifa Keilim back to your city homes!!) meat was also sent to Israel by people to there kids there are kashring stuff abroad too.

493

 Sep 08, 2006 at 09:20 AM Anonymous Says:

did you hear such chutspa breslaur wants his shul to fast first day slichas BECAUSE OF HIS AVAIRA what a CHUTSPA

494

 Sep 08, 2006 at 08:18 AM Anonymous Says:

Didn't the yiddin in Monsey Ir Hacodesh wonder why the butcher didn't eat at simchas?

495

 Sep 08, 2006 at 01:54 AM Anonymous Says:

for all those who care to know:
there is a sign up from rabbi bresualer that he will no longer be in the kashrus field

496

 Sep 08, 2006 at 01:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Chazal tell us that "momoin verayois nafshoi shel odom michemdosoi" That comes above 'chezkas kashros'!

By the subject of money you need a 'shomer' just like by 'yichud' - a 'hashgocho' with 'chezkas kashrus' is not enough, one needs a 'shomer' - a 'mashgiach temmiddi'

I did not make this up - 'Chazal' teach us this!!!!!!!!

497

 Sep 08, 2006 at 01:26 AM Anonymous Says:

"How can one know if a yekka is really frum?" asked Reb Yaakov Kaminetsky zt"l, "See if he is straight with money, see if he is honest with money and doesn’t owe anyone, only then can you know that a yekka is ehrlich" (and he said, "by you chassidim, iz duss nisht kein reiya")
Everyone knows that M Finkel was NOT ehrlich with money, he is known to be a ganev and owes money to tons of people for over 15 yrs (never mind KJ), so my question is: "Why did Rav Bresslauer Shlit"a not know of Reb Yaakovs shittah??? Trust me, he surely knew that Mr Finkel is a gaven (maybe just ignored it...)
So all of you:

S T O P saying that this choshuvah Mr Finkel etc. etc. -

He "was" a two facer!
He is a ganev gommer!
A baal aveiro!
A machatee ess horabbim!
A swindler!
A drei kopp!
A rosho merusha!
A murderer!
(Whoever is machshil someone with treifa, causes the person who un-knowingly ate treifa and neveilus "korays" [dies prematurely! r"l]

The money that he used for tzeddakah was treifa money, geganvetteh money (from yidden - not from social service) who knows if the building he helped build may continue to be used..??..

498

 Sep 08, 2006 at 01:22 AM Anonymous Says:

OY vey iz mir. Oy vey is tzu unz.
Och un vey.

499

 Sep 08, 2006 at 12:17 AM Anonymous Says:

its interesting that you go ahead and accus estores of not dating theremeats When is the last time that you have shopped for meats in either mOnsey Glat ,Wesley Kosher,Allfresh and Rockland Kosher ????????????????
so plz get ur facts from ur frezer before u comment here

500

 Sep 07, 2006 at 11:55 PM heimishe yid Says:

i think the rabunim have to come up with some kind of system tracking the meat from rubashkin,empire,meal mart,kj,and others, i'm not sure how it could be done, but if stores would know that there is a easy way to catch them, they would be afraid to do this, if a heimishe guy can do such a thing, imagine what happens in restaurants in manhattan and other places like caterers in halls etc. where you have israeli owners that are not heimish at all, and it is much easier for them to buy a little treife meat on the side, and howmany people go to out to eat to these places, in this modern world there should be a way of tracking all meat that are kosher, i think the best is to buy meat only in direct stores like rubaskin and satmar and meal mart where you know that the meat is definitley kosher.

501

 Sep 07, 2006 at 11:39 PM Anonymous Says:

many GLATT stores DO NOT date their meat packages as required by federal law. perhaps if this law was enforced this type of fraud would have been discovered much SOONER rather than LATER.

502

 Sep 07, 2006 at 11:10 PM Anonymous Says:

as a Monsey resident i must say all those adding comment should be
aware of a few facts due to the fact that till last week the owner of
''shevach meats'' was a frum yid according to hallacha he didn't need a full time mashgiach
so before we all jump down
Rabbi Breslauer or Rabbi Ulmans
necks lets learn the halacha
more specific and allso we cann't blame Hazlacha Grocery that was subletting a part of there store
to some one taht lives in Monsey for so many years So to all those taht comment please look in ur hearts and think ''Why did this all happpen now
before Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur ?" Let us all take this as a siman from shamayim and do Teshuva and add something extra so when the Yomim
Noraim are over we can say Ribomo Shel OLam we all did something to clean ourselves instead of making this a KATEGOR lets make it a SANEGOR and be MEYACHED MONSEY once and for all
SHANA TOVA TO ALL

503

 Sep 07, 2006 at 11:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Does anybody really believe this story.Almost 600 posts and yet I have not seen one proof that he admitted to selling treif.
Is there ?

504

 Sep 07, 2006 at 11:00 PM Anonymous Says:

to 10:50 PM mativ.
how many are going to be at at that minyan.

you ever hear these words"cop a plea"
you how thats done? ,ask ben brofman.
there should be a race to his door.
i think the brave rabanim of gilu daas fame should hire hom pronto.
he might even do it pro bono.
that means for free.
that should interest some of you.
























;

505

 Sep 07, 2006 at 10:56 PM Anonymous Says:

to: 9:40
heimishe yid said...
were is yiur cousins resturant.?
did rabbi weissmandel tell his stores that they have to use his meat?
did the othe supermarket send him packing for the same reason?
how many kashrus org
send money to him or his shul to cover for them?
people that live in glass houses should use their neighbors toilet.
or as my rebbe Rush Limbaugh says;
if you dont understand the politics ,foolow the money.

506

 Sep 07, 2006 at 10:50 PM Maitiv Says:

To add a little sense... some of the hysteria is shock that a man who grew up in the best yeshivos and nice family of yekkishe Bnei Torah, gives a shiur, appears to be a public minded askan, turns out to have been a "maachil neveilos." there is a sense of disbelief, "What has gone wrong with our system?"
The same is true for the outpouring about the Rav Hamachshir, everyone assumed that he was the most hands-on, the least money-minded, the straight and honest one. This may still be true but people cannot believe that relying on his authority they were involved with Treif chickens.
Wouldn't we all have been relieved if one distributor had come forward and said "it is all a false alarm, I brought kosher meats from other slaughter houses and it is only a question of worng labels, not of neveilos." But sadly that has not happened, and, of course it has been handed over to the non-Jewish media and the state of New York, and probably soon to the IRS who want to know why he could handle large volumes of chicken without invoices and checks .... and will happily send him for a few years to a little room with no minyan for him lead...
It is incredibly sad for all of us, and we must all wonder what Hashem wants of us.... and personally I don't know the answer but I don't think it is ban the internet and add an inch to skirts

507

 Sep 07, 2006 at 09:40 PM heimishe yid Says:

most people in monsey do eat rav weissmandel's hechsher, he is one of the best heimishe hechsheirim if not the best, he removed hecheirim from some stores in monsey because he did not know them so he could not trust them, you do not see any baal machsher do that, look at hisachdos hurabunim they give hechsherim and never even check up to see, i have a cousin who has a restaurantwith hisachdus hurabunim hechsher, they made him fill out a application, they told him what they allow him to sell and what not to sell, somebody came down a week later, and that was 15 months ago, nobody came to check since, i guess as long as he pays the bill every month nobody will ever come to check on the store, this is outrages,

508

 Sep 07, 2006 at 08:33 PM Anonymous Says:

this is a bunch of horse dookie first of all why did the mashgichim have to break into da freezeer they should have a key and also if the meat was possibly not kosher how the heck were they tasting it duh!!!!!!!!!!! too many holes in this story we should all give

509

 Sep 07, 2006 at 07:13 PM Anonymous Says:

This is no joke,
But crying is a form of ‘charottoh’, which is part of 'teshuvah', after you are done with the crying; you have to take upon yourself to be strict with what you eat.... (Kabboloh al haossid)

Now you can't really compare this to a 'bal teshuvah' who was ignorant and finally found the truth. He starts to observe ‘mitsvos’ with happiness...

You, on the other hand 'did' know that you have to be careful with what you eat, but (for whatever reason) was nichshol - you are UPSET!!
You will see that after you do 'teshuvah', (properly) you will ALSO be happy! iy"h

510

 Sep 07, 2006 at 06:28 PM Jiryas Yoel Resident Says:

I hear that in addition to all the places in Monsey, Lakewood that Shevach soled his products, he also soled to this places, and there might even be more.

Fair Oaks Bungalow Colony.

Pragers Bungalow Colony.

White House Estates.

Bait V’egan Bungalow Colony.

Camp Munk.

Camp Morris.

Stamford Yeshiva Bais Binyomin.

511

 Sep 07, 2006 at 06:25 PM Anonymous Says:

חוץ די אידישקייט איז דא א פאר מיליאן דאלער,שאדן , אין אפילו מער, פין כלים,(-אין דא איז צו דערמאנען אלע וואס האבן דארט נאך געקויפט פסח צו זעכער מאכען דאס צו טאן אויך מיט די פסחדיגע כלים -אין עס עקסטערע כשרן נישט אין חמצדיגע טעפ) וואס אידישע קינדער האבן געמוזט ארויס ווארפען
איך וואלט פארגעשלאגען צו מאכן קלעים דעפארטמענט אין עם לייגן אין באנקארט אין פארקויפען זיין הויז אין אלע פראפעטיעס (אויב ער פארמאגט))

512

 Sep 07, 2006 at 06:23 PM On TV Says:

This story is going to air tonight on Fox 5 at 10:00pm EST.

513

 Sep 07, 2006 at 05:23 PM heeeeeeeeelp Says:

dear fellow bloggers:
i was one of those that made jokes etc about the monsey story.
it all changed when i found out, that a close member of my family ate this .
it's no longer funny.
i go into the bathroom turn on the shower and sob.
how?
why?
you get so angry you want to put a fist thru something.
your not allowed to.
i never knew myself to be such a tzadik.
so my am i so hurt?
crying? with tears!
how do all the balei tshuva deal with their past?
who gives them chizuk?
why am i tearing now?
can someone that knows how to be mechazek get on this blog.
forget accusations. we're hurting a little chizuk?
anybody know were to go?

HELP

514

 Sep 07, 2006 at 05:02 PM Anonymous Says:

R' Weissmandel used to give hechsherim to the majority of restaurants in Monsey (Monsey Take Out, Monsey Bar B Q, Kosher Castle, and more) but they all removed his hechser for a couple of reasons.
A. Some people do not eat anything that has his hechser (especially lately that he angred a lot of people with his hechsher on the Iowa meat).
B. He required all restaurants to carry his meat which a lot of customers didn't eat. That's why all the restaurants had to remove his hechser.

515

 Sep 07, 2006 at 04:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Could anyone post
the outcome from last nights asifa ?
not the musser the facts of what there GOING to do to improve
not what they want to do

516

 Sep 07, 2006 at 04:47 PM Itzy Says:

It's also interesting that they didn't take Weissmandel to speak yesterday in Satmar. I guess, because they think that he might have a financial gain from all this. I hope this is not the case. Time will tell.

517

 Sep 07, 2006 at 04:34 PM mp Says:

Just wondering out loud, who is going to cash on this? There are quite a few establishments in the Monsey area bearing his Hechsher.

Rabbi Weismandel is certainly making a lot of noise.

I wonder if this could not happen to anyone, after all Shevach was doing it behind Rabbi Breslauer's back.

518

 Sep 07, 2006 at 04:30 PM Anonymous Says:

I agree tha Kehilis Kashris botcht big time so why wern't they moda that shows they are no diffarent YOU SIMPLY CANT TRUST ANY HASHGUCIS THAT FAILED EVRYONE SHOULD BOYCOT THES TWO HASHGUCHIS

519

 Sep 07, 2006 at 04:13 PM Anonymous Says:

When was the last time the Mashgiach stepped foot into his cooler? Did he at least have a key to the place? Obviously, MF slept pretty comfortable that night with no fear of anyone noticing those 19 boxes! Wake up people!

520

 Sep 07, 2006 at 04:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Why when a hechsher is removed by one Rav (as happened with a the big supermarket in Monsey), there is immidiately another one who takes his place? This has to stop!

521

 Sep 07, 2006 at 03:33 PM MP Says:

I Heard that Rabbi Breslauer is terminating his Hechsher (kosher certification), can anyone verify that???

BTW, im a chasidisher guy from monsey and got here through the NY Times.

Kudos to the VOS IZ NEIAS staff!

522

 Sep 07, 2006 at 02:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Most of the comments on this website should not have been posted.I can't understand how the administator allows this to continue, especially since he states that all comments must be approved by the blog author. The English of most of the comments is atrocious and I think it's a real chillul Hashem to post them. Now it got to the outside goyishe world. I heard it on WINS this morning,and the New York Times already picked up on it.

I had heard that some boys were never taught how to write English. This website really proves the fact that one should learn the language of the country he lives in. I can't imagine how some of them have the time to sit by this website and send comments which make no sense, over and over.

If the author claims that he approves all comments before they are posted, what right did he allow the disparaging posts insulting their families and the Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation.

Enough already. Stop the repetitive bashmutzing ehrliche people.I personally think you should discontinue all future comments and let the people who it concerns be in touch with their respective Rav.

523

 Sep 07, 2006 at 02:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Anon 214,

EXCELLENT!

WELL SAID.

THere is a need for more of your kind and less of the others!

524

 Sep 07, 2006 at 02:14 PM Anonymous Says:

to the commentmade at 2:06 maybe we should give wives Gitten in order to learn all the halachos,-
CHAS V'SHOLOM
There is no silver lining in this story

525

 Sep 07, 2006 at 02:12 PM Anonymous Says:

anon 206 with the opening
"dan lKaf..." needs help!

Seriously.

526

 Sep 07, 2006 at 02:10 PM Anonymous Says:

anon 202,

what is the difference whether MF was seen or not.

Come on, what is this now.

Some kind of gossipy, National Enquirer type bog??????

Why, we are frum yidden!?!?!?!?!?!?

527

 Sep 07, 2006 at 02:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Anon 152 says to keep it out of the news.

OF COURSE!

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, when will we start behaving so that we don't appear in the print media?

Chilul Hashme by Ortho Jews appears in the newspapers all too often.

You don't want to be "news" material?

I have an eitzah for all:

BEHAVE like you are supposed to.

528

 Sep 07, 2006 at 02:06 PM Anonymous Says:

this has to be made public LMAN YAYDEE the consequences. No hasgacha can protect themselves 100% . They rely on the owners -owners of Kosher establishments will think very hard before trying something like this

529

 Sep 07, 2006 at 02:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Dan L'Kaf Z'chus
Look how many people will be careful in the future.
Look how many people now know that a chicken has to be salted.
Look how many people learnt about the Machlokes Shach and Taz as to when he loses his Chazkas Kashrus.
Look how many people now know the Dinim of Kashering your Keilim.
So lets try to put everything in perspective.

530

 Sep 07, 2006 at 02:02 PM Anonymous Says:

has anyone seen MF since this story broke?

531

 Sep 07, 2006 at 01:52 PM Anonymous Says:

135
why the hell would you want it on the front page keep it out of the news

532

 Sep 07, 2006 at 01:35 PM Burnw Says:

I hope we can make it to 1000 comments.

Perhaps then, the New York TImes will give this scandal front page coverage.

533

 Sep 07, 2006 at 01:31 PM Anonymous Says:

We have all these proclaimed ethicists saying that it is Elul and not the time to engage in this loson hora, etc. If so, it is Elul for you too. WHy are you here reading these posts??????????

534

 Sep 07, 2006 at 12:57 PM Anonymous Says:

To the 4:44 poster who said:

"Just so you know, Kehilah Kashrus in Flatbush had a BIG michshoil last year when they caught a store (formerly Kosher Spot) selling non-glatt meat as glatt."

Kehila Kashrus did not catch them -they gave the Hasgacha. It was only when a store in Crown Heights wanted to sell meat from there that the Bais Din of Crown Heights sent in a Mashgiach and caught them with the not Glatt meat. For all Kehila Kashrus's hype - they messed up big time.

535

 Sep 07, 2006 at 12:54 PM Baal Habos Says:

> There are many people who would still trust MF.


And why not? He's a regular Frum guy. He's so frum, he bought meat and chicken for his own family elsewhere.

536

 Sep 07, 2006 at 12:45 PM confused Says:

TO: 12;14
were do u get a heter for such a public gathering on the ninth of av?.
were taught not to eat the last meal w/ three men,because of public gathering.
it almost looks loke an italian funeral.a social event,
dressed in mourners slothingg

537

 Sep 07, 2006 at 12:40 PM EX-MASHGIACH Says:

TO ALL TOSHVEI MONSEY:

NOW THAT YOU HAVE PERSONALLY GONE THRU A KASHERING PROCESS,
HOW DO YOU THINK A CATERER CAN TO THE SAME FOR A LARGE SIMCHA IN A FEW HOURS.
JUST THE CLEANING.
THE SILVERWARE,
THE SILVER CHAFFING DISHES,
THE OVENS,
SINKS,.
THE DISHWASHER,
THE COFFE POTS,
THE GLASSES,
THE HOT WATER FOR COFFE/TEA ON SHABBAT
YOU'LL BE STUNNED AT THE ANSWER.
YOU MIGHT NEVER EAT IN SUCH A PLACE AGAIN.
UNLESS IT'S PESACH AND YOUR WIFE DOES'NT'T REALLY WANT TO HAVE ALL THOSE IN-LAWS ,GRANDCHILDREN, GUESTS.
YOU SEE WERE. ALL A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES, IN VERY LARGE EMPTY HOUSES.
WHAT A SHAME.
WHAT A LEGACY WE ARE LEAVING OVER FOR THE NEXT GENERATION.

538

 Sep 07, 2006 at 12:14 PM S..R. Hirsch Says:

Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation -whoever they are has done a great job of making loshon hora the #1 sin above all others. Covering up for rebbe-molesters, rosh yeshiva enablers, treif butchers, irresponsible masgichim is all ok, it's loshon hora.

People are trying to find out the truth and the people who committed this grave sin should not be protected.

By the way, The Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation is from Monsey and there is no name attached that I know that takes responsibilty for its actions. Who are they and who made them the loshon hora police?

Who gave them permission to use the Chofetz Chaim's picture {which it probably is not)

Is there another Godol B'Yisroel that has such a bizoyon that his supposed picture is plasterd over posters/books/key chains etc.?

The Chofetz Chaim is being used like a marketing icon comparable to Ronald McDonald. Bizoyon Hatorah.

Why are they allowed to be on the internet? Who gave them a hetter?

http://www.chofetzchaimusa.org/

539

 Sep 07, 2006 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:

Your pots were traifed up because you deserved it. That has nothing to do with whatever drove the butcher to do what he did.

Take responsibility for what happened to yourself.

Stop blaming the butcher - his cheshbon is his own, but yours is yours.

540

 Sep 07, 2006 at 11:58 AM Anonymous Says:

TO ANON 10:40 AM

As was mentioned on the blog yesterday,12:11 which was strongly condemned.

It's his wife and her father Reb Chaim Goldvasser who were pressuring him to live such a lifestyle.

It had nothing to do with tuition. He has been in charge of TUITION commitees all over town. He makes everyone else MIshugah, but gets gret rates himself.


His wife & f-i-l are devious characters.

541

 Sep 07, 2006 at 11:33 AM R. S. Says:

I've just been introduced to your blog and I think you provide a terrific service to the community by providing them with up to date news affecting them. I have one suggestion that I hope you won't mind my making. In looking over the comments about the butcher scandal in Monsey, I was able to find out the name of the butcher and the Rav Hamachshir.

In addition, there were all sorts of comments (some of them contradicted by other comments) about the reliability of the Rav Hamachshir. In my mind, all of this is unnecessary and probably harmful until all the facts are in.

In order to avoid the possibility of loshon hora being spread by the blog, would it make sense to eliminate public comments? I understand that you need feedback in order to make sure that your news is correct and up to date. In that case, people should only be permitted to provide feedback directly to you through an e-mail to this address. This way, all unnecessary public comments and rumors can be avoided. Tizku L'Mitvos.

I wish you much Hatzlacha and a Kesivo Vachasimo Tova.

542

 Sep 07, 2006 at 11:30 AM Anonymous Says:

This post is for Anon 1111 criticizing anon 1049.

Why don't you judge the Hamas and Hezbollah lcaf zchus. After all, they were chased out of Haifa, Jerusalem, etc. during the early 20th century by the jews. Is that adequate economic pressure to justify their killing of Israelis and jews worldwide? Where does the line stop for justifying immoral behavior due to economic pressures.

543

 Sep 07, 2006 at 11:26 AM Anonymous Says:

Anon 1111 makes no sense. Let us try it again and keep it simple for you, anon 1111. Your economic pressures gives you NO right to treif up my pots and pans. PERIOD.
You want to argue that. You are a fool.

544

 Sep 07, 2006 at 11:11 AM Anonymous Says:

Anon 1049 is the narrow minded, bitter, and holier than thou attitude that brought this to fruition. Make no mistake. You will be judged based on how you judge others Anon 1049, so be careful. No is saying that what was done was right, but unless you actually finish the eighth grade and educate yourself, you'd understand that societal dynamics are fully in play here - more so than any simple "how could he do this" whine you can manage.

Ask yourself why this happened in Monsey and not some other community. Then ask yourself what you did to deserve this - yes you. There are no victims here, only levels of guilt.

545

 Sep 07, 2006 at 10:50 AM Anonymous Says:

I donate the first 100 dollars to erect a pair of golden arches outside the Hatzlocha grocery store.

546

 Sep 07, 2006 at 10:50 AM Anonymous Says:

maybe its mida keneged mida for people eating rubashkins

maybe hashem is like "you want cheap meat so bad you break the torah multiple times to do it? here have some meat that's as treif as your ethics"...it would be very Neviim Acharonim

547

 Sep 07, 2006 at 10:49 AM Anonymous Says:

anon 10:40 is the most outrageous post yet.

Can there be any justification for treifing other peoples' organs, pots and pans because of economic pressure.

R U for real?

You have economic pressure not being able to afford tuition? That may be valid. Then go eat at McDonald's or Burger King each night. You will be amazed at how cheap you can get an entire meal there. Beleive me, after a few months of eating at McDonald's, you will be able to afford tuition.
But don't go out and treif up other peoples' lives because YOU have economic pressures.

548

 Sep 07, 2006 at 10:47 AM daniel Says:

Anonymous said...
JUST DISCOVERED!
THIS WAS A TOTAL SET-UP BY THE OWNERS OPF HATZLOCHA.
LET'S NOT FORGET THAT HE HAD A BONE (OR 2) TO PICK WITH SHEVACH.
HE LOST A DIN TORAH LAST MONTH TO SHEVACH.
AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN TREIF MEAT HAS BEEN FOUND?
LET'S ALL WAIT FOR THE AUDIT ON HIS RECORDS TO COME OUT FOR THE TRUTH TO BE TOLD!
ELUL---ENOUGH LOSHEN HORAH...AND SCANDALS!

9:04 PM

-----------------------------------
You're a DISGUSTING HYPOCRITE!!!
First, you come on and make baseless accusations that the owners of Hatzlocha set this whole thing up. Then you have the chutzpah to preach "Elul--NO LOSHEN HORAH"? I can't believe they allowed your comment. You're obviously a sick and demented individual.

549

 Sep 07, 2006 at 10:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Does anyone know where they are doing public kashering in Monsey?