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Israel - Judge Proposes Compromise in Beit Yaacov Separation of Ashkenazi, Mizrahi Girls

Published on:   April 29, 2010 07:35 AM
News Source:  Ynet
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Court room after Judge Edmond Levy proposed an outline agreement during a deliberation in the High Court about the separation of Ashkenazi and Mizrahi girls at the Haredi school in Emmanuel, Beit Yaacov Jerusalem on April 29,2010..photo by Abir Sultan/Flash 90Court room after Judge Edmond Levy proposed an outline agreement during a deliberation in the High Court about the separation of Ashkenazi and Mizrahi girls at the Haredi school in Emmanuel, Beit Yaacov Jerusalem on April 29,2010..photo by Abir Sultan/Flash 90

Israel - Dozens of parents, teachers, and students have gathered at the High Court of Justice for a hearing on the cancellation of separation between Ashkenazi and Sephardic students at the ultra-Orthodox girls’ school Beit Yaacov in Emmanuel.

“We will fight and do everything in our power in order to prevent others from telling us how to raise our children,” one of the parents told Ynet.

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Judge Edmond Levy proposed an outline agreement during a deliberation in the High Court about the separation. Levy opined that this should enable the sides to reach an agreement.

Supreme Court Justice Hanan Meltzer ruled that the separation between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi girls “smells of racism.”

Meltzer ruled in response to claims by Attorney Arieh Holzer, representing the independent education stream, that “from the parents’ point of view, there is no way their daughter, who watches television, will study with Haredi girls.” Holzer also said, “I am willing to bet that the girls on this track (Mizrahi) have televisions at home, and the others (Ashkenazi) do not.”

But according to Levy’s proposal, all the girls will return to school on Sunday, and during the first week they will remain separated. During this time, the Ministry of Education will draw up guidelines for acceptance in the Haredi track, and in case of disagreement, Rabbi Yaacov Yosef will have the final say.

They are expected to give their response within a few days.


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1

 Apr 29, 2010 at 07:41 AM Anonymous Says:

The Torah way won! Sidon netzach

2

 Apr 29, 2010 at 08:47 AM David Says:

Simple solution: if people want to run schools that discriminate based on ethnicity, then they should pay for it themselves. If they're going to keep accepting money from the state, then they need to adhere to some of the state's policies, including policies outlawing their nasty, ignorant bigotry.

3

 Apr 29, 2010 at 09:09 AM Anonymous Says:

it smells of racism,no solid proof even!

4

 Apr 29, 2010 at 09:42 AM Torah Truth Says:

How disgraceful! We talk about Ahavas Yisrael and Kiruv Richokim but it seems these are only words to many of our Chareidi people. I can understand not wanting your children to be in school with children who have a different set of values. Then make the separation based on a value system! If you run a school where the standard is no TV then “discriminate” based on that and that alone! If the standard is no internet (BTW, everyone reading this and who agreed with this post would be included) then that should be the demarcation. What is this Ashkenazi and Sefardi thing that is so prevalent in Eretz Yisrael and is spreading to the US as well? What is wrong with us? Please explain. What makes the Mesorah from Lita superior to the Mesorah from any other part of the world? Wake up my friends. Stop looking at Tznius as the issue to be addressed for the Geulah and look at the mirror… it is US!

5

 Apr 29, 2010 at 09:50 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
David Says:

Simple solution: if people want to run schools that discriminate based on ethnicity, then they should pay for it themselves. If they're going to keep accepting money from the state, then they need to adhere to some of the state's policies, including policies outlawing their nasty, ignorant bigotry.

exactly!! if you want to discriminate, do it on your own dime. fact of the matter is chinuch atzmai is publicly funded. satmar schools for example, can do what they wish, teach how they want and leave out what they don't want, because they take no public funds.

6

 Apr 29, 2010 at 09:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
David Says:

Simple solution: if people want to run schools that discriminate based on ethnicity, then they should pay for it themselves. If they're going to keep accepting money from the state, then they need to adhere to some of the state's policies, including policies outlawing their nasty, ignorant bigotry.

What kind of nonsense are you regurgitating?????

We are equal citizens in this "democratic" country and if we feel that our cause is right we will fight for it in court and continue to run "our" government paid schools the way we feel we should. Please don't allow your self-hating feelings towards people the heed the guidance of Gedoley Yisroel to give away your level of intelligence

7

 Apr 29, 2010 at 09:56 AM Imanuel Says:

Reply to #2  
David Says:

Simple solution: if people want to run schools that discriminate based on ethnicity, then they should pay for it themselves. If they're going to keep accepting money from the state, then they need to adhere to some of the state's policies, including policies outlawing their nasty, ignorant bigotry.

Reply to .2

What kind of nonsense are you regurgitating?????

We are equal citizens in this "democratic" country and if we feel that our cause is right we will fight for it in court and continue to run "our" government paid schools the way we feel we should. Please don't allow your self-hating feelings towards people the heed the guidance of Gedoley Yisroel to give away your intelligence level.

8

 Apr 29, 2010 at 10:01 AM Chaim Says:

This compromise seems rational and fair - it must be assur

9

 Apr 29, 2010 at 10:06 AM Torah Truth Says:

And for all of you that don't think this is racisim please allow me to share a quote from another frum website...

"As the Emanuel Beis Yaakov case takes a prominent place in Thursday’s news in Israel, with the sides and parents appearing before the Supreme Court, Jerusalem Councilman Yitzchak Pindrus grabbed his own news headline, releasing a statement “In chareidi education, we don’t accept Sephardim, monkeys, Russians and Ethiopians”."

HaShem Yirachem!

10

 Apr 29, 2010 at 10:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Without knowing the details I am SURE that parents did not insist on separation based on racism.

11

 Apr 29, 2010 at 10:12 AM Reply to David Says:

How do you deal with the very real differences in levels of observance? Also, this is a religious school, so whose laws would you teach the girls? Would you compromise depth of teaching in order to teach them only surface level of both? Integration doesn't help any of the girls, does it?

12

 Apr 29, 2010 at 10:22 AM casey Says:

Who needs arabs to hate jews ? Here we see that jews hate jews!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STOP THE HATE AND MOSHEOCH WILL COME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

13

 Apr 29, 2010 at 10:23 AM shlome bar Says:

Reply to #2  
David Says:

Simple solution: if people want to run schools that discriminate based on ethnicity, then they should pay for it themselves. If they're going to keep accepting money from the state, then they need to adhere to some of the state's policies, including policies outlawing their nasty, ignorant bigotry.

David! From what you write it is very much evident that you have no idea what so ever about the facts of this case (unless you don't want to be confused with the facts).
These parents who took their daughters out of this school (or separated in the beginning) had 1 issue at play, that their kids environment should be as religious as their own nothing to do with Ashkenazi or Sefardi, (30% of the new student body is Sefardi, but again why am I confusing you with the facts).
Now the person who dragged this into court had a problem how to make an issue of a none story, simple tell the media that they are separating kids based upon race and Kaboom!!!! You don't need facts anymore.
So David, I'm not sure if you have an agenda or you are just ignorant here, but before posting a hateful comment like yours, please learn the facts on the ground of a story

14

 Apr 29, 2010 at 11:09 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
shlome bar Says:

David! From what you write it is very much evident that you have no idea what so ever about the facts of this case (unless you don't want to be confused with the facts).
These parents who took their daughters out of this school (or separated in the beginning) had 1 issue at play, that their kids environment should be as religious as their own nothing to do with Ashkenazi or Sefardi, (30% of the new student body is Sefardi, but again why am I confusing you with the facts).
Now the person who dragged this into court had a problem how to make an issue of a none story, simple tell the media that they are separating kids based upon race and Kaboom!!!! You don't need facts anymore.
So David, I'm not sure if you have an agenda or you are just ignorant here, but before posting a hateful comment like yours, please learn the facts on the ground of a story

I still cannot see why they can't make a religious line in the ground. All (ashkenazi, sephardi, ethiopians, russians...) those who want to come to this school must promise and sign (on penalty of being kicked out) that they will not engage in certain behaviors, will dress a certain way in and out of school, will do XYZ.....
Then, if the students want to follow it, they can come! Who cares the color of the skin or the lineage of the parents? Maybe the ashkenazi students here are not as frum as a couple of sephardi girls? No girl should have to write their sect name on an application, just like we dont have to write race in USA.
About those who wonder what they will teach the students, how come no school in America or anywhere else has this issue? The BY school here has every type and the teachers will teach according to all. No difference in amount learned. They will teach the halachos of Tefilah or anything really- they will hand out sheets according to the girls' nusach. I didnt feel that I learned any less because of it. Rather, I felt that we leaned more- ahavas yisrael, patience... We have well educated teachers- they know the depth and breadth.

15

 Apr 29, 2010 at 11:19 AM thank u no.13 Says:

most ppl only believe what they read in the secular media
this story is really so untrue from what was printed
it is about a frum group of parents who wish a frum education for their children and YES they have a right to ask for payments, being that they are a part of israel
with their own money they founded a new school, bought furniture etc
it is sad that our own mus destroy all we build

16

 Apr 29, 2010 at 11:31 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
David Says:

Simple solution: if people want to run schools that discriminate based on ethnicity, then they should pay for it themselves. If they're going to keep accepting money from the state, then they need to adhere to some of the state's policies, including policies outlawing their nasty, ignorant bigotry.

Please cjeck the facts this is is not between ashkenaz and sfardi children! This is between chareidi and mizrachi! they raised huge amounts of money to have their own school and by the way you're the nasty guy!!!mind your own business and take your hatred and stupidity somewhere else!

17

 Apr 29, 2010 at 11:55 AM Israeli Says:

Reply to #9  
Torah Truth Says:

And for all of you that don't think this is racisim please allow me to share a quote from another frum website...

"As the Emanuel Beis Yaakov case takes a prominent place in Thursday’s news in Israel, with the sides and parents appearing before the Supreme Court, Jerusalem Councilman Yitzchak Pindrus grabbed his own news headline, releasing a statement “In chareidi education, we don’t accept Sephardim, monkeys, Russians and Ethiopians”."

HaShem Yirachem!

This reminds me of a wonderful vort - attributed to the Malbim.
An reform "rabbi" in order to show the Malbim how much yidden are suffering took him to a fancy restaurant and showed him a sign on the door saying "Jews and swine prohibited" To which the Malbim replied "Well, sir, it appears that you and I can both not go in there".
Vehamaivin yovin.

18

 Apr 29, 2010 at 11:57 AM Yosef Says:

Thanks number 16! I am a Sephardic Haredi parent, formerly Mizrachi. My children now attend Satmer school in Boro Park. Zero racism there, more than a few Yemenite and Syrian families, but if I had showed up in a knitted kipa with short sleeves and flip-flop sandals with a magen David necklace, they would not have been inclined to trust our children with theirs, how can anyone force themselves on a community like that? It baffles me to think that people are so naive to think that children don't influence each other...

19

 Apr 29, 2010 at 12:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Israeli Says:

This reminds me of a wonderful vort - attributed to the Malbim.
An reform "rabbi" in order to show the Malbim how much yidden are suffering took him to a fancy restaurant and showed him a sign on the door saying "Jews and swine prohibited" To which the Malbim replied "Well, sir, it appears that you and I can both not go in there".
Vehamaivin yovin.

Wow, that's a really disgusting 'vort', especially given that this is just a modified for nasty sinas chinam purposes of Sir Moses Montefiore, who sat at some occasion next to an anti-Semite who had just been to Japan, and noted that in Japan there were neither "pigs nor Jews", and Montefiore replied, "We should both go, so they will have one of each"

20

 Apr 29, 2010 at 12:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Torah Truth Says:

And for all of you that don't think this is racisim please allow me to share a quote from another frum website...

"As the Emanuel Beis Yaakov case takes a prominent place in Thursday’s news in Israel, with the sides and parents appearing before the Supreme Court, Jerusalem Councilman Yitzchak Pindrus grabbed his own news headline, releasing a statement “In chareidi education, we don’t accept Sephardim, monkeys, Russians and Ethiopians”."

HaShem Yirachem!

Not rue!

The truth is that they DO accept sfardim in that school as well, but they must meet the guidelines and most of them dont. There ARE some that do and they DO learn in that school.

21

 Apr 29, 2010 at 12:52 PM David Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

What kind of nonsense are you regurgitating?????

We are equal citizens in this "democratic" country and if we feel that our cause is right we will fight for it in court and continue to run "our" government paid schools the way we feel we should. Please don't allow your self-hating feelings towards people the heed the guidance of Gedoley Yisroel to give away your level of intelligence

You want to "heed the guidance" of the so-called Gedoley Yisroel, and I'm formulating my own opinions based on my own thought, so who is "regurgitating?" Moreover, I don't hate myself-- I just hate bigots (and, while we're at it, I'm not too keen on fools, either!). Come to think of it, I'm even pretty tolerant of bigots-- if they want to have schools that make ethnic distinctions between people, they can be free to do so, provided they don't expect others to pay for their nasty and indecent predilections.

22

 Apr 29, 2010 at 01:33 PM Anonymous Says:

If they're not racist, why do they insist that the Sfardi girls read Hebrew with Ashkenazi accents?

23

 Apr 29, 2010 at 01:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
thank u no.13 Says:

most ppl only believe what they read in the secular media
this story is really so untrue from what was printed
it is about a frum group of parents who wish a frum education for their children and YES they have a right to ask for payments, being that they are a part of israel
with their own money they founded a new school, bought furniture etc
it is sad that our own mus destroy all we build

No. You do not have a 'right' to money from taxpayers in order to build a school system with no state oversight. The state is not an ATM. If you don't want to deal with state oversight, then the school should leave Chinuch Atzmai and become completely private.

24

 Apr 29, 2010 at 01:54 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Kudos to Judge Levy! He is himself religious and is trusting a prominent rabbi to do what is right.

25

 Apr 29, 2010 at 01:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Imanuel Says:

Reply to .2

What kind of nonsense are you regurgitating?????

We are equal citizens in this "democratic" country and if we feel that our cause is right we will fight for it in court and continue to run "our" government paid schools the way we feel we should. Please don't allow your self-hating feelings towards people the heed the guidance of Gedoley Yisroel to give away your intelligence level.

Wrong. If you take money from the state, then you have to abide by state oversight and regulations. You cannot take taxpayer money and do whatever you please with it. If you and "Gedoley Yisroel" are opposed to it, then do what Satmar and Toldos Aharon does and fund the school yourself. Israeli taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for a school that flaunts government regulation.

26

 Apr 29, 2010 at 01:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
Yosef Says:

Thanks number 16! I am a Sephardic Haredi parent, formerly Mizrachi. My children now attend Satmer school in Boro Park. Zero racism there, more than a few Yemenite and Syrian families, but if I had showed up in a knitted kipa with short sleeves and flip-flop sandals with a magen David necklace, they would not have been inclined to trust our children with theirs, how can anyone force themselves on a community like that? It baffles me to think that people are so naive to think that children don't influence each other...

Disgusting. So if someone did show up dressed that way, it would be alright for the community to shun them? Does this mean if someone shows up in a black hat and wig they too can be shunned by Mizrachim or chilonim?

27

 Apr 29, 2010 at 03:44 PM holybrother Says:

Reply to #22  
Anonymous Says:

If they're not racist, why do they insist that the Sfardi girls read Hebrew with Ashkenazi accents?

hate to tell you but my chasidish , ashkenazi kids who learn in the beis yaakov here in tzfat are the minority and they davend out of a sfardie siddur. when they got older then they started using their own siddurim/ no worse for wear. by the way I don't believe it about the accents.

28

 Apr 29, 2010 at 05:12 PM avrumi Says:

I just wanted to say something about the issue: when I was in yeshiva gedolah, reb aharon leib shteinman came once for a kinus about chinuch near the yeshiva.
when asked if it is mutar to accept kids with a TV at home he answered with a conspicuous wisdom:
"according to u Avrohom Ovinu wouldn't have been accepted in our school because of his father terah' who was serving avoda zarah. However, esav would have been accepted since his father was Avrohom." The ikar is to consider each kid with all his capacities to become a erliche yid or even a great talmid chochom.

29

 Apr 29, 2010 at 06:23 PM Motti Says:

It is amazing how Sephardim turn into Mizrachim! This just shows, again, that people see Sephardim as not so religious, if at all.
At the beginning the problem was between Ashkenazim and then Sephardim, now we can see that the only problem Ashkenazim have there is their superior complex to Sephardim (Maroccain, Yemenite, etc...). The only truely religious people, chreidim, can be Ashkenazim and Chassidim!
I hope Moshiach will come very soon to sort this big mess out!

30

 Apr 29, 2010 at 09:10 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #4  
Torah Truth Says:

How disgraceful! We talk about Ahavas Yisrael and Kiruv Richokim but it seems these are only words to many of our Chareidi people. I can understand not wanting your children to be in school with children who have a different set of values. Then make the separation based on a value system! If you run a school where the standard is no TV then “discriminate” based on that and that alone! If the standard is no internet (BTW, everyone reading this and who agreed with this post would be included) then that should be the demarcation. What is this Ashkenazi and Sefardi thing that is so prevalent in Eretz Yisrael and is spreading to the US as well? What is wrong with us? Please explain. What makes the Mesorah from Lita superior to the Mesorah from any other part of the world? Wake up my friends. Stop looking at Tznius as the issue to be addressed for the Geulah and look at the mirror… it is US!

What are you talking about? The standard IS based on values. Do you imagine there are no sefardi girls in the "Ashkenazi" school?! Is that what you've been told, by liars and propagandists?

31

 Apr 29, 2010 at 09:13 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #9  
Torah Truth Says:

And for all of you that don't think this is racisim please allow me to share a quote from another frum website...

"As the Emanuel Beis Yaakov case takes a prominent place in Thursday’s news in Israel, with the sides and parents appearing before the Supreme Court, Jerusalem Councilman Yitzchak Pindrus grabbed his own news headline, releasing a statement “In chareidi education, we don’t accept Sephardim, monkeys, Russians and Ethiopians”."

HaShem Yirachem!

Liar. He did not release any such statement. In a private conversation, when accused of racism, he replied ironically "yes, we don’t accept Sephardim, monkeys, Russians and Ethiopians....unless we've been bribed". Everyone present understood this as irony, mocking the anti-haredi propaganda.

32

 Apr 29, 2010 at 09:15 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #19  
Anonymous Says:

Wow, that's a really disgusting 'vort', especially given that this is just a modified for nasty sinas chinam purposes of Sir Moses Montefiore, who sat at some occasion next to an anti-Semite who had just been to Japan, and noted that in Japan there were neither "pigs nor Jews", and Montefiore replied, "We should both go, so they will have one of each"

Why do you think it was disgusting? And if you do, the Malbim had a whole lot more just like it.

33

 Apr 29, 2010 at 09:17 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #22  
Anonymous Says:

If they're not racist, why do they insist that the Sfardi girls read Hebrew with Ashkenazi accents?

Because that is how the school teaches. What would you have them do? Hold separate classes, according to the students' ancestry? Or should they impose the sefardi accent on the ashkenazi girls, contrary to halacha?

34

 Apr 30, 2010 at 02:56 AM avrumi Says:

Reply to #29  
Motti Says:

It is amazing how Sephardim turn into Mizrachim! This just shows, again, that people see Sephardim as not so religious, if at all.
At the beginning the problem was between Ashkenazim and then Sephardim, now we can see that the only problem Ashkenazim have there is their superior complex to Sephardim (Maroccain, Yemenite, etc...). The only truely religious people, chreidim, can be Ashkenazim and Chassidim!
I hope Moshiach will come very soon to sort this big mess out!

mizrachim doesn't mean zionists but bnei edut hamizrach.

35

 Apr 30, 2010 at 04:24 AM open you eyes Says:

Reply to #9  
Torah Truth Says:

And for all of you that don't think this is racisim please allow me to share a quote from another frum website...

"As the Emanuel Beis Yaakov case takes a prominent place in Thursday’s news in Israel, with the sides and parents appearing before the Supreme Court, Jerusalem Councilman Yitzchak Pindrus grabbed his own news headline, releasing a statement “In chareidi education, we don’t accept Sephardim, monkeys, Russians and Ethiopians”."

HaShem Yirachem!

HaSHEM YERACHIM ON YOU!Don't you relaize pindros was poking fun at the chiloni reporter.he later made it clear we accept evreybody.

36

 May 04, 2010 at 07:45 AM Anonymous Says:

NO television I get but internet? Stop living in the stone ages. You can filter objectionable material. You sit in the dark while our enemy, despite wearing burkas does this:
From Debbie Schlussel's blog. "Number of free OLPC [one laptop per child] laptops paid for to be delivered in the future to Palestinian Muslim kids in HAMAS Gaza, Fatah West Bank, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan"
Take a look at the article at debbieschlussel.com and you will see a WOMAN in full regalia doing the teaching.

BTW, I am Sephardia living in Israel. And it IS true about the Hebrew pronunciation and all the other accusations. We are seen as sub human when a deputy mayor of Jerusalem can get away with comparing us to monkeys.

37

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