Chicago, IL – Concerned that large liquor companies in the United States which might be owned by Jews who may not have arranged for proper sale of their chometz before Pesach, Chicago based Association of Kashrus Organizations has issued an alert, recommending that Kashrus agencies and consumers change their policies regarding buying alcoholic beverages. The alert affects bourbon, cordials, American whiskey and a small amount of scotch and vodka.
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Given that many alcoholic beverages can be aged for years, it cannot be assumed that these items are free of this problem, even if they were purchased a long time before or after Pesach. Even products that were manufactured by non Jewish companies but are owned by Jewish distributors over Pesach could potentially have the same problem of Chometz she’avar alav haPesach. Additionally, the Association of Kashrus Organizations recommends that consumers wishing to return any of the potentially problematic liquor should consult with their Rav before doing so, as returning the item may fall under the category of deriving benefit from Chometz she’avar alav haPesach, which is prohibited.
PDF here
Another one of these overdone “alerts” on what is most likely a non-existant issue. I’ve been to literally dozens of simchas over the past year or two at some of the most machmir “simcha halls” all over the New York area where some of these brands have been served and really chashuve rabbonim have been drinking “ad shelo yadah”. There is no way to track a lot of these products from the producer through lots of middleman and distributors and even if you could, its impossible to track all of their physical warehouse facilities. Lets focus the limited resources of the frum community who cares about kashruth on real issues and not play these games with marginal concerns that have little or no real answers.
Fair enough but it does beg the question: “Why all of a sudden?” This is obviously a problem that is not new and we’ve had the Halalchas that deal with this for a long time. It’s not like a new process used for stitching cattle stomachs to their innards or something to that effect. A simple case of Chometz she’avar alav haPesach is what we are talking about here.
Was this “discovered” in 2010, and all these years many gedolim were unkowingly drinking these beverages of “concern”?
Aren’t the concerns themself questionable…it “MIGHT be owned by Jews who MAY not have arranged for proper sale of their chometz” – sounds like a s’fek s’feka (double doubt)?
Oyyy vayy Zmir!! What am i going to drink this Shabbos?
Isn’t it a Safek Drabanan? Or is it not a real Safek, because it’s only lack of knowledge, anyone?
Phew, none of the ones I like…
Since these companies may have been Jewish owned for years without our even realizing it, this potentially includes any of these items gathering dust in one’s closets year after year, even if one dutifully sold them every Pesach through one’s Rav.
Personally, I don’t recognize any of the brands listed other than Royal Canadian, but then I’m no aficionado.
Well, they themselves are saying that they aren’t sure so this falls into the category of ‘sufeik d’rabunnan l’hakel’, and with the track history of so many kashrus organizations making statements that products or ingredients are not kosher when they just haven’t done the research, I wouldn’t take this very seriously.
I once met the uncle of a girl that I was dating, who worked for the OU. I told him about a tshuvas HaYaavitz that says that someone embarrassed him for drinking coffee in a non kosher establishment in Amsterdam, and he writes all of the reasons that it was totally mutar. So the man said “Well, that’s not the case today, any kind of processed food needs a hechsher” and I tried to explain to him why that’s not the case, and one of the examples that I gave is canned vegetables that have citric acid and salt, so he claimed that there was lots of information that the OU had about citric acid not being kosher and that it needs a hechsher, so I went out and did the research myself, and there was no truth to it whatsoever! It was completely false by all accounts, and it became clear that they make it up in order to perpetrate a financial stronghold on us.
Criticizing this announcement is like criticizing the Surgeon General for health warnings. The source of the announcement is a universally respected kashrus expert, not a wild-eyed amateur. Nobody thought about the problem before. Now someone did. If, instead of generic burcherin, someone could explain how the whiskey could be muttar if it is owned by a corporation that is owned by Jews, or in which Jews have a controlling interest, that would be constructive. Tell me Zei’ah, tell me that corporate organization makes it non-Jewish, tell me it’s not ra’ui le’achilas kelev, whatever. But don’t just hahk ah tchainik.
How dare you making fun of kashrus what are you expecting of your children ?? They will go much lower then you !!
Drink kosher, that are made made by hiemishe company’s. I know I’m an old time small minded silly man. So what if you won’t get drunk at the kiddush club? Hey, don’t drink and daven!. Gut shabbos to all!
The AKO seems to have forgotten that חמץ שעבר עליו הפסח is a knass, not an inherent issur. The whole point is to punish those Jews who have committed the crime of owning chometz on Pesach, by boycotting them and making sure they don’t profit by their wrongdoing. That way, next year they will do the right thing. This only makes sense, however, when the public is informed whom to boycott and why; that means there has to be a list of whom *not* to buy from. When instead we’re given a list of “good” companies, ones that are known either to be non-Jewish or to have sold their chometz, and we are told to boycott anyone *not* on the list, then those boycotted have no notice of what’s happening and no idea why they’re being punished. This is especially so for those companies not on the list, who are in fact non-Jewish, or which did sell their chometz! They surely don’t know what they’re being punished for! So what’s the point?
Thankfully none of the Glens are on the list. So I will continue to drink them in moderation.
Looks like mechiras chometz income has been down this year…..
instead of these guys finding problems. find a solution. I once worked as a mashgiach for a haimeshe hashgoche for pesach cereal. I found a worker eating his lunch over a huge mixiing pot. I saw a peice of his sandwich fall in, i called the rav hamachshir. He told me under no circumstances should i stop the line. He would find a way out a heter. so if this can be done for treif in a pesachdike cerel. there shouldnt be a problem here.
I spent time in Bourbon and the only Jewish owned one sells chametz to the Chabad in Louisberg that Rabbi also hasgacha on the ice cream all the other distilleries are by giant public companies some japanese
This thread is a good mussar haskeil. When the yetzer hara tries to convince us to be lax in mitzvos, he has an effective protocol. Usually, the first step is “the gadol was misinformed.” That’s not the case here, though, as this announcement was made by experts who are out in the field. But the tool box is far from empty- it was always muttar before (#1, 2, 3…), they’re trying to drum up business (#8,19), they don’t understand American Law (#9) even though the corporation issue has been paskened to death and every pipsqueak poseik knows the machlokes, Blu Greenberg’s infamous “where there’s a halchic will, there’s a halachic way” (#20) as if this were hetter agunos, and boich svoros about the Chabad in Louisberg (#22) Louisberg? Is that a suburb of Louisville, Mr. Expert? And so it goes.
I live in EY. Last week I bought a package of facial tissues. It had a hechsher!
Given by the
ועד ההלכה לעניני גניזה
and there it says:
מיוצר מנייר ללא חשש גניזה
Now I can blow my nose without worry!
When will it end? How much did this add to the price?
To everyone above:
I carefully researched this alert and want to share with you what I found out (this should answer most of the comment’s questions):
1) This was not the regular problem of distribution. The sole owner is Jewish and privately owns it (no corporation, etc.).
2) It is not a safek at all (the somewhat vague loshon was necessary for other reasons)
3) If you have some bottles in your closet for many years, I was told to email the address on the alert since the Jewish owner bought the various companies on the list at different times over the last 20 years and there is a slight possibility that your bottle was purchased before then
4) The Rabbonim behind this have known about it for a while and did not release the information until they finished their full research. They wanted to make sure they were thorough in the metzious. I also understand that they discussed this shailo with many poskim before releasing the alert.
What is amazing is that almost all the companies listed are bourbons. Not only that, they only list certain ones from the same company and distillery. Buffalo Trace is the parent to 21 bourbons…only some of them are listed. They are all manufactured at the same distillery Kentucky.