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Lawrence, NY - 3-Year-Old, Nanny Drown in Pool

Published on: June 23, 2010 05:06 PM
Last updated on: June 23, 2010 11:07 PM
By: AP / VIN News Newsday
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Lawrence, NY -  A 3-year-old Lawrence girl drowned in her backyard pool Wednesday, and her nanny, who was also found floating at the deep end, died last night at an area hospital after both were pulled from the water by a house painter.

Nassau police identified the toddler as Naama Markovits. The nanny was identified as Lorena Canales-Mejia, 32, of Inwood.

Police said the tot was pronounced dead shortly after arriving at St. John’s Episcopal Hospital in Far Rockaway.

Canales-Mejia had been on a ventilator in the hospital’s intensive care unit, said Det. Lt. Kevin Smith of the Nassau County police.

Smith said the two victims were pulled from the deep end of the pool by a painter after the girl’s 5-year-old brother ran to the front of the Beechwood Drive home at about 2 p.m. to tell the painter his sister and nanny were floating in the in-ground pool and possibly drowning.

It was not clear how long they were in the pool, but Smith said investigators are looking into whether the nanny had slipped while carrying the child near the deep end of the pool, where the water is 10 feet deep.

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“It’s possible the house sitter had the 3-year-old in her arms and lost her footing by the deep end, but we’re still investigating,” Smith said at the scene.

The painter rushed to the pool and pulled the victims out of the water and tried to dial 911 but may have been hampered because his cell phone had gotten wet, Smith said.

He ran into the home and dialed police using a landline. Rescue workers arrived and rushed the woman and girl to the hospital.

The children’s mother, who was running errands with an 8-year-old child, arrived shortly after the victims were taken to the hospital.

Ines Mejia, who said she was the aunt of the nanny, spoke yesterday before her niece died. She said her niece was a mother of three children herself and “a nice girl.” She added: “I’m in shock.”

Lawrence Village Administrator David Smollett, who called the case “a tragedy,” said the pool would be inspected by the building department.

Dr. Freddy Marton, a neighbor and pediatric neurologist who said he has seen many drowning cases, called it a “tragedy beyond description,” adding, “I can’t imagine that anyone would be anything less than speechless.”


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1

 Jun 23, 2010 at 05:35 PM BDE Says:

All the Chachumim are going to comment on why it happened. Lets not do that we know we need to fix ourselves up in many areas. I am getting of the internet now and going to learn a little. We need more Torah in the world.

2

 Jun 23, 2010 at 05:44 PM Chacham #1 Says:

Children must be supervised by a lifeguard at all times

3

 Jun 23, 2010 at 05:59 PM Anonymous Says:

swimming pools are very dangerous for children. far more dangerous than guns. be very careful if you have one in your backyard or near your house. watch your kids carefully around them.

4

 Jun 23, 2010 at 06:49 PM Anonymous Says:

boruch dayen emes. May Hashem comfort and give koach to the family.

5

 Jun 23, 2010 at 06:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

swimming pools are very dangerous for children. far more dangerous than guns. be very careful if you have one in your backyard or near your house. watch your kids carefully around them.

And now that its the summer watch your kids in the Bungalow swimming pool even if there is a life guard!!

6

 Jun 23, 2010 at 06:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

swimming pools are very dangerous for children. far more dangerous than guns. be very careful if you have one in your backyard or near your house. watch your kids carefully around them.

Swimming pools are NOT dangerous. People and children who can not swim are put in a dangerous situation when they aren't learned in that aspect. Also people should know, young children, toddlers and babies, should have floating and other safety devices no matter what.

This situation is sad and unfortunate. BDE

7

 Jun 23, 2010 at 07:11 PM Supervised Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

swimming pools are very dangerous for children. far more dangerous than guns. be very careful if you have one in your backyard or near your house. watch your kids carefully around them.

The child was being supervised. The nanny tripped and almost drowned as well. This is a huge tragedy. This could have happened anywhere to anyone. Let's stop judging. Enough already.

8

 Jun 23, 2010 at 07:32 PM Anonymous Says:

I personally do not have a pool but read the story; the child had a one on one help that was seemingly not negligent, she fell.

9

 Jun 23, 2010 at 07:47 PM bukharian Says:

they say that pools causes more death comparing people that own guns.

10

 Jun 23, 2010 at 07:50 PM Truth Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

Swimming pools are NOT dangerous. People and children who can not swim are put in a dangerous situation when they aren't learned in that aspect. Also people should know, young children, toddlers and babies, should have floating and other safety devices no matter what.

This situation is sad and unfortunate. BDE

Pools are dangerous and so are cars. When we do something in life -like swimming, let's do it as safe as possible. A child or person who doesn't know how to swim should NOT use flotation devices in water above their head. Remember -Reach, throw, go -for lifesaving in pools.

11

 Jun 23, 2010 at 08:00 PM scary Says:

All must learn to swim under close supervision by trained lifeguards! Everyone must do their share to watch over little ones and stop leaving them to untrained individuals by pools. This can also happen while people are socializing while a little child can slip in the pool with the thought that the other kids will watch over them. Fight for responsibility -the dress/suit you need to buy is not as important as your children's lives.May we know of no more accidents.

13

 Jun 23, 2010 at 09:10 PM brooklyn mom Says:

GEVALT YIDDEN WAKE UP !!!!!
Stop talking in shul !!!!! those who talk are killing our children !!!!! how many more do we have to lose before the talkers wake up !!!!!! All of us out there--Chassidish. Litvish, Kipa Seruga. Ashkenazim, Sephardim, frum from birth, baalei teshuva, gerim . the three weeks haven't even started !!! PLEASE STOP TALKING IN SHUL!!! not to each other, not on cell phones. I am sick of seeing people in talleisim and tefilin standing outside their respective shuls in Boro Park and Flatbush talking to each other and on cell phones --Ribbono Shel Olam--this is supposed to be your time to daven and beseech Hashem--with cell phones ?????

ALL OF YOU ARE ENDANGERING OUR CHILDREN--YOURS AND MINE !!!!! STOP IT !!!!!! We lost enough this year--between the little boy who got caught under the bus in Boro Park, the 11 year old who got hit in Boro Park, the 8 year old who still cannot speak or move part of his body and is still in pain, When are you going to wake up !!! GEVALT !!!!! I am a mother and cannot imagine the pain and anguish this family is going through but believe me I feel plenty pain when someone else's child dies even if I didn't know them PLEASE!!!!

14

 Jun 23, 2010 at 09:15 PM Anonymous Says:

the levaya for naama markovits zsl. is 1:00 P.M. at Shor Yoshuv....1 Cedarlawn Ave. Lawrence, N.Y.

15

 Jun 23, 2010 at 09:26 PM Richard Nixon Says:

Reply to #13  
brooklyn mom Says:

GEVALT YIDDEN WAKE UP !!!!!
Stop talking in shul !!!!! those who talk are killing our children !!!!! how many more do we have to lose before the talkers wake up !!!!!! All of us out there--Chassidish. Litvish, Kipa Seruga. Ashkenazim, Sephardim, frum from birth, baalei teshuva, gerim . the three weeks haven't even started !!! PLEASE STOP TALKING IN SHUL!!! not to each other, not on cell phones. I am sick of seeing people in talleisim and tefilin standing outside their respective shuls in Boro Park and Flatbush talking to each other and on cell phones --Ribbono Shel Olam--this is supposed to be your time to daven and beseech Hashem--with cell phones ?????

ALL OF YOU ARE ENDANGERING OUR CHILDREN--YOURS AND MINE !!!!! STOP IT !!!!!! We lost enough this year--between the little boy who got caught under the bus in Boro Park, the 11 year old who got hit in Boro Park, the 8 year old who still cannot speak or move part of his body and is still in pain, When are you going to wake up !!! GEVALT !!!!! I am a mother and cannot imagine the pain and anguish this family is going through but believe me I feel plenty pain when someone else's child dies even if I didn't know them PLEASE!!!!

Obviously talking in shul is a huge problem but I'm curious as to how you make this connection? How do you know it isn't because of lashon horah? Pritzus? Bitul Torah? Chilul Hashem? Genaiva? Bizayon talmidai chachomim?

These are all problems to one degree or another in many kehillos. Why did you pick taliking during davening as the cause of this tragedy?

(I assume you didn't hear it directly from The Source.)

16

 Jun 23, 2010 at 09:52 PM Q Says:

Why not blame it on sinas chinam and those who spread it by accusing two frum neighborhoods in particular of engaging in a behavior which you then go on to blame for the death of yiddisher kinder.

You may be sick of seeing men in tallassim talking on their cell phones. For all you know they are osaik betzorchai tzibur and every minute counts.

And maybe Gd is sick of hearing us blame each other for tragedies instead of each of us looking inward.

17

 Jun 23, 2010 at 10:07 PM Anonymous Says:

May H' comfort this beautiful family. May they never again see any loss. May they grow from bracha and not from tzaara.

This pain is too much to bear...

18

 Jun 23, 2010 at 10:15 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #15  
Richard Nixon Says:

Obviously talking in shul is a huge problem but I'm curious as to how you make this connection? How do you know it isn't because of lashon horah? Pritzus? Bitul Torah? Chilul Hashem? Genaiva? Bizayon talmidai chachomim?

These are all problems to one degree or another in many kehillos. Why did you pick taliking during davening as the cause of this tragedy?

(I assume you didn't hear it directly from The Source.)

How does she know? Excuse me, where did you grow up? How are you not aware that talking in shul causes children's deaths? As far as I know the source is the Tosfos Yomtov, but I don't know where he got it. Maybe it was revealed to him from Heaven, or maybe he found it in some earlier source. But it's something that everybody growing up frum knows.

19

 Jun 23, 2010 at 10:15 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #16  
Q Says:

Why not blame it on sinas chinam and those who spread it by accusing two frum neighborhoods in particular of engaging in a behavior which you then go on to blame for the death of yiddisher kinder.

You may be sick of seeing men in tallassim talking on their cell phones. For all you know they are osaik betzorchai tzibur and every minute counts.

And maybe Gd is sick of hearing us blame each other for tragedies instead of each of us looking inward.

The Tosfos Yomtov says that talking in shul causes children's deaths. This is not a matter of random speculation.

20

 Jun 23, 2010 at 10:31 PM Rabbi Rosen Says:

Hashem should give the family much strength to overcome their loss. We must look at ourselves closely and refine ourselves to make this world a better place.

21

 Jun 23, 2010 at 10:35 PM Anonymous Says:

#19: the tosfos yomtov's comments are very scary. I've always wondered- if what the tosfos yomtov says is true, am I better off davening b'yechidus rather than going to shul where I know I am weak and do talk during davening? I know I should and need to work on it, but am I better off not taking the risk and just staying home?

22

 Jun 23, 2010 at 10:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Misaskim, who has been stationed at the hospital since just after the incident has confirmed that the maid has just passed away

23

 Jun 23, 2010 at 10:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Rabbi Rosen is speaking truth. We must all follow his words.

24

 Jun 23, 2010 at 10:54 PM Richard Nixon Says:

Chazal may have assigned certain machlas to certain avairos but that does not mean that every death from that machlah was caused by that avairah.

We can never be certain of what causes any tragedy in this world. One can and should be introspective and when faced with a crises try to identify which of his actions could be to blame and change his/her ways but there is no way we can ever be certain.

25

 Jun 23, 2010 at 10:59 PM Richard Nixon Says:

Reply to #18  
Milhouse Says:

How does she know? Excuse me, where did you grow up? How are you not aware that talking in shul causes children's deaths? As far as I know the source is the Tosfos Yomtov, but I don't know where he got it. Maybe it was revealed to him from Heaven, or maybe he found it in some earlier source. But it's something that everybody growing up frum knows.

I grew up frum (actually, I grew up frum so long ago I never heard anyone refer to a yid as frum until I was almost finished growing up. Back then we said a yid was ehrlich or was shomer shabbos or shomer torah u'mitzvos. The word frum didn't really get popular until the '70s.) and I always knew that talking in shul caused shuls to be burned down, which has a certain simple logic to it.

26

 Jun 23, 2010 at 10:59 PM anonymous Says:

It has nothing to do with a lifegaurd. Even a lifegaurd could get a cramp or slip. there has to always be 2 people at all times that are capable of helping or getting help at least if no lifegaurd is around. BDE

28

 Jun 23, 2010 at 11:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Nanny just died at the hospital. Terrible double tragedy

29

 Jun 23, 2010 at 11:07 PM Anonymous Says:

the parents are yehuda and cindy markovits.The grandmothers are Mrs. Ellen Basch and Mrs. Temimah Markovits.May Hashem give them all the koach to deal with this tragedy...hopefully Moshiach will be here very soon...Am Yisroel suffered enough...

30

 Jun 24, 2010 at 12:28 AM READ THIS IT SHOOK ME UP Says:

Reply to #15  
Richard Nixon Says:

Obviously talking in shul is a huge problem but I'm curious as to how you make this connection? How do you know it isn't because of lashon horah? Pritzus? Bitul Torah? Chilul Hashem? Genaiva? Bizayon talmidai chachomim?

These are all problems to one degree or another in many kehillos. Why did you pick taliking during davening as the cause of this tragedy?

(I assume you didn't hear it directly from The Source.)

Halochos of Talking during Davening

1031. The difficulties that one experiences in life with regard to children, health and parnassah derive from the sin of speaking during Tefillah. Piskei Tshuvos 124:7, Igeres R' Dov Ber, son of The Shulchan Aruch Harav

1032. When one speaks during during Chazoras Hashatz, not only has one caused that his own tefillos will not be accepted, but one has also caused that the tefillos of others will not be accepted. Therefore, if one knows himself; that he will be unable to remain silent, it is better that he should not come to shul at all, rather than be "a sinner who causes others to sin". Piskei Tshuvos 124:7, Yaaros Dvash Drush7, Olelos Efraim vol4pg3, Pesach Aneiyim L'Hachidah

1033. One who speaks during Chazoras Hashatz causes the Shechinah to leave Klal Yisroel, and it is as if he has sinned with Avodah Zorah. Drush Chasam Sofer vol2pg309b

1034. The father of the Shelah Hakodosh states that "I swear, amongst all sins I have not found any as terrible as one who speaks in shul purposely and thereby humiliates the honor of God, and he is as bad as Yeravam ben Nevat who sinned (with Avodah Zorah) and caused others to sin, and this sin holds ba

31

 Jun 24, 2010 at 12:29 AM CONTINUATION Says:

Reply to #15  
Richard Nixon Says:

Obviously talking in shul is a huge problem but I'm curious as to how you make this connection? How do you know it isn't because of lashon horah? Pritzus? Bitul Torah? Chilul Hashem? Genaiva? Bizayon talmidai chachomim?

These are all problems to one degree or another in many kehillos. Why did you pick taliking during davening as the cause of this tragedy?

(I assume you didn't hear it directly from The Source.)

1034. The father of the Shelah Hakodosh states that "I swear, amongst all sins I have not found any as terrible as one who speaks in shul purposely and thereby humiliates the honor of God, and he is as bad as Yeravam ben Nevat who sinned (with Avodah Zorah) and caused others to sin, and this sin holds back the coming of Moshiach". Piskei Tshuvos 124:7, Sefer Yesh Nochalin1035. The Elya Rabba citing the Kol Bo states: "Many shuls have been destroyed directly as a result of this sin {speaking during Chazoras Hashatz and tefillah}. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Brurah 124:7 MB271036. The magnitude of the sin of speaking during Chazoras Hashatz is applicable as well to one who speaks during Krias Hatorah, or any other time during Tefillah when one may not speak, because one who conducts his own private conversation while the tzibbur is gathered to speak with God declares that he is not interested in the honor of God's kingdom, and that he has no portion in the God of Israel. Piskei Tshuvos 124:7, SA 146:2

32

 Jun 24, 2010 at 12:29 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
brooklyn mom Says:

GEVALT YIDDEN WAKE UP !!!!!
Stop talking in shul !!!!! those who talk are killing our children !!!!! how many more do we have to lose before the talkers wake up !!!!!! All of us out there--Chassidish. Litvish, Kipa Seruga. Ashkenazim, Sephardim, frum from birth, baalei teshuva, gerim . the three weeks haven't even started !!! PLEASE STOP TALKING IN SHUL!!! not to each other, not on cell phones. I am sick of seeing people in talleisim and tefilin standing outside their respective shuls in Boro Park and Flatbush talking to each other and on cell phones --Ribbono Shel Olam--this is supposed to be your time to daven and beseech Hashem--with cell phones ?????

ALL OF YOU ARE ENDANGERING OUR CHILDREN--YOURS AND MINE !!!!! STOP IT !!!!!! We lost enough this year--between the little boy who got caught under the bus in Boro Park, the 11 year old who got hit in Boro Park, the 8 year old who still cannot speak or move part of his body and is still in pain, When are you going to wake up !!! GEVALT !!!!! I am a mother and cannot imagine the pain and anguish this family is going through but believe me I feel plenty pain when someone else's child dies even if I didn't know them PLEASE!!!!

And spanish maids die agav the yiddishe kind!!!!!!! Why do people have 10 foot deep pools anyway in their back yard?!?

33

 Jun 24, 2010 at 12:29 AM CONTINUATION LAST PART Says:

Reply to #15  
Richard Nixon Says:

Obviously talking in shul is a huge problem but I'm curious as to how you make this connection? How do you know it isn't because of lashon horah? Pritzus? Bitul Torah? Chilul Hashem? Genaiva? Bizayon talmidai chachomim?

These are all problems to one degree or another in many kehillos. Why did you pick taliking during davening as the cause of this tragedy?

(I assume you didn't hear it directly from The Source.)

* Chmielnicki's pogroms, which resulted in the massacre of more than 300,000 Jews, broke out, May 25, 1648. Called the "gezeirosTach v'Tat" During the tragic years of the Chmielnicki persecutions of 1648-1649, the renowned sageRay Yom-Tov Lipmann Heller, known as the Tosafot Yom Tov, introduced a mi she bairach prayer intothe synagogue service which was not only meant as a special blessing for those who refrained fromtalking during synagogue prayers, but was also a reaction to the Chmielnicki massacre itself. The massacre and destruction of hundreds of synagogues and houses of study was apparently viewed as Divine reproof for the widespread practice of talking during tefillah.

34

 Jun 24, 2010 at 12:45 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

I personally do not have a pool but read the story; the child had a one on one help that was seemingly not negligent, she fell.

who leaves their precious kid with a goy? I am sure the valuables were put away in a safe place. u should leave kids with yidden .

35

 Jun 24, 2010 at 09:10 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

who leaves their precious kid with a goy? I am sure the valuables were put away in a safe place. u should leave kids with yidden .

what a stupid, ignorant and insensitive thing to say.

36

 Jun 24, 2010 at 06:13 AM Anonymous Says:

This was not caused by talking during davening. How do I know? Because the family davens at shor yaoshuv where there is zero repeat zero taking during davening. And they dont talk either. So what caused it? Coukd be anything bain adam lechaveiro. so let's work on them all. At the same time lets all work on lo seyehe damim bevaisecha. Pool covers, child proofing homes.. these things are crucial

37

 Jun 24, 2010 at 06:15 AM Anonymous Says:

i know the family very well.
he doesnt talk in shul....to comment 13
and doesnt have sinas chinam.....to some other of you ppls "chamas chitzoniyas" comments.
its a big tragedy but i beilive in HaShem and his loving hand. and im sure he took her with love just bc he wanted her soul back with him
"y are you crying , the next world is a much better place" rebbe nachman once said to a mourner.

38

 Jun 24, 2010 at 06:17 AM Anonymous Says:

and btw they have a huge gate around the entire pool erea which they always made sure was locked! the nanny drowned as well.....u can seee in the picrtures

39

 Jun 24, 2010 at 07:36 AM B"H Says:

BDE and to anyone with so called advice... please ask your rav if you should be on the internet dispensing advice etc to anyone.... no matter how well intentioned.... frankly its offensive.

40

 Jun 24, 2010 at 07:53 AM Anonymous Says:

This was a geizera that was meant to happen and the little girl's mission in life might be to teach us something like why do we leave our most precious Yiddishe kinderlich with people who we all at some point have personally witnessed do not always have the best or most intelligent judgment, like for instance why take a young child into the depth of the water??? Isn't playing in the shallow part enough???

41

 Jun 24, 2010 at 07:57 AM Anonymous Says:

My heart breaks for both families involved in this terrible tragedy.What a terrible loss.
To lose a child and so young......unfathomable the pain that this family will have to bear the rest of their lives as well as the surviving children of the unfortunate woman who lost her life.

There is no fault here, it is simply a terrible tragedy that could have happened under a number of circumstances to ANYBODY.

Rather than post the inane comments that some are, I would think this forum would better serve as a place to offer up condolences to both bereaved families and not cloud it with hatred and loshon harah.
Shame on those who choose to do otherwise!!

42

 Jun 24, 2010 at 08:21 AM Anonymous Says:

This is aterrible tragedy. Everyone should learn to follow the rule of don't enter a pool if there is noone watching you from the outside,

43

 Jun 24, 2010 at 08:38 AM Tzi Bar David Says:

My goyishe neighbor, a NYC policeman with two toddlers, when he moved in to the house that had an in-ground swimming pool, the first thing...the FIRST THING ... even before the moving van with their belongings arrived, ...had a dump
truck full of dirt come in and fill in the pool. He said he had been to too many of these things. His pool is now a garden. These terrible things happen to goyim to yidden several times a year. These pools are death traps waiting to spring on children.

44

 Jun 24, 2010 at 08:50 AM brooklyn mom Says:

Reply to #15  
Richard Nixon Says:

Obviously talking in shul is a huge problem but I'm curious as to how you make this connection? How do you know it isn't because of lashon horah? Pritzus? Bitul Torah? Chilul Hashem? Genaiva? Bizayon talmidai chachomim?

These are all problems to one degree or another in many kehillos. Why did you pick taliking during davening as the cause of this tragedy?

(I assume you didn't hear it directly from The Source.)

talk to your Rav and ask him the halachas of talking during davening--there are many sefarim out that deal with the subject and its connection to our children. Do a little research on your own and you will see the connection. Even if you don't want to "waste" your time doing this--why would you talk during davening when you are addressing the Ribono Shel Olam. -you ask Him for many things and then have the chutzpah to talk on your cell phone or to another person--where is the logic???

45

 Jun 24, 2010 at 08:51 AM goodpoint Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

who leaves their precious kid with a goy? I am sure the valuables were put away in a safe place. u should leave kids with yidden .

good point. children are more precious than gold and silver and "valuable items"- we should not leave them with a goy; but i dont think this had anything to do with a goy vs a yid babysitter

46

 Jun 24, 2010 at 09:25 AM A lifeguard Says:

IF SOMEONE FALLS INTO A POOL AND CANT SWIM, THEY SHOULD TRY TO REACH THE BOTTOM OF THE POOL AND KICK OFF THE FLOOR which most of the time will bring them to the surface. keep on doing this, until you get to the shallow or help arrives. Try kicking off the floor in a way that will move you to the shallow. Hamakom yenacheim eschem bisoch shar availai tzion v'yerusolayim.

47

 Jun 24, 2010 at 10:26 AM cheenooch Says:

#46...you unfortunately are a moron. your advise is useless in such circumstances....may g-d give you a brain one day.

48

 Jun 24, 2010 at 10:29 AM millhorse Says:

from many of the remarks on this event we see that yidden have the same mental defects and superstitions as ofthers in the world.

i talk in shul and i neverthe leass have a beautiful house in lawrence, a brokerage account with more than I will ever need, and descendants all over the place....wise up yidden.

49

 Jun 24, 2010 at 10:46 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
brooklyn mom Says:

GEVALT YIDDEN WAKE UP !!!!!
Stop talking in shul !!!!! those who talk are killing our children !!!!! how many more do we have to lose before the talkers wake up !!!!!! All of us out there--Chassidish. Litvish, Kipa Seruga. Ashkenazim, Sephardim, frum from birth, baalei teshuva, gerim . the three weeks haven't even started !!! PLEASE STOP TALKING IN SHUL!!! not to each other, not on cell phones. I am sick of seeing people in talleisim and tefilin standing outside their respective shuls in Boro Park and Flatbush talking to each other and on cell phones --Ribbono Shel Olam--this is supposed to be your time to daven and beseech Hashem--with cell phones ?????

ALL OF YOU ARE ENDANGERING OUR CHILDREN--YOURS AND MINE !!!!! STOP IT !!!!!! We lost enough this year--between the little boy who got caught under the bus in Boro Park, the 11 year old who got hit in Boro Park, the 8 year old who still cannot speak or move part of his body and is still in pain, When are you going to wake up !!! GEVALT !!!!! I am a mother and cannot imagine the pain and anguish this family is going through but believe me I feel plenty pain when someone else's child dies even if I didn't know them PLEASE!!!!

Calm down please. Do you have some sort of ruach hakodesh to tell us why these things happen? Don't tell me that this happened for a certain reason. Please don't le a tragedy like this be used for your soapbox. Maybe Hashem wants us to give more tzedakah or to do more chesed etc. Do not try to give reasons for what Hakadosh Baruch Hu does. We do not know the reasons and to give one makes a person an appikoras and chas v'shalom a kofer be'ekur. We can improve ourselves at any time we want but don't try to justify Hashem's actions. He does things for many unknown reasons and we have to stop using these tragedies to promote the things we see wrong in our world. Just do teshuva for yourself and use a different forum to get on your soapbox.

50

 Jun 24, 2010 at 10:51 AM Smartty Pants Says:

Reply to #44  
brooklyn mom Says:

talk to your Rav and ask him the halachas of talking during davening--there are many sefarim out that deal with the subject and its connection to our children. Do a little research on your own and you will see the connection. Even if you don't want to "waste" your time doing this--why would you talk during davening when you are addressing the Ribono Shel Olam. -you ask Him for many things and then have the chutzpah to talk on your cell phone or to another person--where is the logic???

Because Avraham went to go greet his guests while he was davening to hashem. So from there we learn that it is OK to talk during davening.

51

 Jun 24, 2010 at 11:17 AM moshe Says:

Boruch Dayan Emes! a most terrible tragedy. May the family be comforted amongst aveily tzion veyerushalaim.

under all circumstances it would be advisable for all yidden to check that all mezuzos at home etc. are Kosher and are affixed on all doors in the correct halachic manner! its not a joke!

May the family be consoled and have only simcha always.

52

 Jun 24, 2010 at 11:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
millhorse Says:

from many of the remarks on this event we see that yidden have the same mental defects and superstitions as ofthers in the world.

i talk in shul and i neverthe leass have a beautiful house in lawrence, a brokerage account with more than I will ever need, and descendants all over the place....wise up yidden.

Finally , someone who tells it like it is. Blaming this , that, or the other thing is baseless, no matter who said it.

53

 Jun 24, 2010 at 11:37 AM clear thinker Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

who leaves their precious kid with a goy? I am sure the valuables were put away in a safe place. u should leave kids with yidden .

Are you mad or just trying to stir people up? I would try to answer you stupidity but it would be useless. What makes you think your valuables will be any safer with a Jew than with a non-Jew. Who steals Torahs? Probably those who think they know how to turn them into a profit. Just as an aside do you worry at all about the seemingly frum people who later turn out to molest children?

54

 Jun 24, 2010 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Hashem has his reasons and WE of course can not begin to understand. But one thing we do know is that we can always learn from every tragedy. From this one we can learn many thing, for one thing is not to be yentas and look to blame.

The other things to learn is water safety and not to take water for granted. Hashem has charged us with the requirement of teaching our children to swim. Obviously because water can be as dangerous as it can be life saving. It is our responsibility to understand and to take every precaution around any body of water, and to teach our children the rules of water safety from the time they can understand the word "no".

Anyone with a pool should have lifesaving equipment at the ready. Anyone with a pool should set very strict rules for pool safety for anyone living or working in the home. Anyone with a pool should have ropes/floats separating the shallow end from the deep end and have a line painted on the bottom of the pool to show the separation. When adults do laps and remove the rope, they should put the rope back when done.

No one should go swimming alone without supervision or without a partner who knows how to swim. Have a phone by pool.

55

 Jun 24, 2010 at 12:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Milhouse Says:

The Tosfos Yomtov says that talking in shul causes children's deaths. This is not a matter of random speculation.

But the gemara says the Churban and all ensuing tragedies was caused by Sinas Chinam. So let's not play Navi here.

56

 Jun 24, 2010 at 12:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
millhorse Says:

from many of the remarks on this event we see that yidden have the same mental defects and superstitions as ofthers in the world.

i talk in shul and i neverthe leass have a beautiful house in lawrence, a brokerage account with more than I will ever need, and descendants all over the place....wise up yidden.

You have other zechusim that hashem is rewarding you with what you have. Talking in shul is a big avaira we are supposed to live by the shulchan Auruch that is what we follow & there it is written the huge sin of speaking in shul etc.

57

 Jun 24, 2010 at 12:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

who leaves their precious kid with a goy? I am sure the valuables were put away in a safe place. u should leave kids with yidden .

i have a russian jewish babysitter who tried to teach my kids to say merry christmas .......

i also used to say i would never take a goy...but geuss what my mother in law has a poliish lady for 15 years who is more dedicated than anyone i have known.....
my father inlaw also has a non jewish aide who is so sincere and gentle and is by his side 24/7 and wouldnt even leave for a walk...wipes him....and does e/t for him with such dedication that made me realize that you cant stereotype... you always have to be cautious....

59

 Jun 24, 2010 at 01:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

who leaves their precious kid with a goy? I am sure the valuables were put away in a safe place. u should leave kids with yidden .

STOP POINTING FINGERS!!!!! How can you say such a thing? a child just died! the family is suffering a terrible tragedy! Just try to imagine for one minute what they must be going through, parents burying a child, grandmothers, great-grandmothers, uncles, aunts, cousins - are all in the process of grieving and trying to make sense of all of this! find a way to help the family move forward....if there is such a way to do so! Baruch Dayan Emmet! and may the family find some sort of comfort!

60

 Jun 24, 2010 at 01:35 PM Anonymous Says:

non jewish is one thing, but polish???!!! Do you not remember the stories from the holocaust how the polish & hungarians were the first to tell the germans where the yidden were hiding??

61

 Jun 24, 2010 at 01:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
cheenooch Says:

#46...you unfortunately are a moron. your advise is useless in such circumstances....may g-d give you a brain one day.

What's your problem. The man was trying to give some advice, maybe it could save one life. What have you done, nothing.

62

 Jun 24, 2010 at 02:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Milhouse Says:

The Tosfos Yomtov says that talking in shul causes children's deaths. This is not a matter of random speculation.

you're right, it's proven fact. Do you actually believe what you're writing? wow!

63

 Jun 24, 2010 at 02:46 PM The Truth Says:

Reply to #60  
Anonymous Says:

non jewish is one thing, but polish???!!! Do you not remember the stories from the holocaust how the polish & hungarians were the first to tell the germans where the yidden were hiding??

Please do not stereotype. Anyone can name nearly any country in the world where there have been anti-semites at some point. Would you be offended if a gentile calls you a money grabbing thief because of the numerous Jews who run after money & end up going against the law to acquire more money?
If we all felt we had an achrius to one another, it would remove the sinas chinam which is rife.

64

 Jun 24, 2010 at 03:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Who knows what Hashem's reasonings are, but when things like this happen the family must look at themselves. Maybe a Grandparent caused harm to someone? Maybe the parents did not always act appropriately towards others? We can all make guesses, but the bottom line is, we all need to look at ourselves and do better.

65

 Jun 24, 2010 at 03:27 PM Anonymous Says:

I do have a pool too and do not open it because my little kids can not swim and it is not secured enough. Accidents do happen as this was. May hashem comfort the family hamukem yenachem eschem.

66

 Jun 24, 2010 at 04:04 PM actual Jew Says:

Reply to #13  
brooklyn mom Says:

GEVALT YIDDEN WAKE UP !!!!!
Stop talking in shul !!!!! those who talk are killing our children !!!!! how many more do we have to lose before the talkers wake up !!!!!! All of us out there--Chassidish. Litvish, Kipa Seruga. Ashkenazim, Sephardim, frum from birth, baalei teshuva, gerim . the three weeks haven't even started !!! PLEASE STOP TALKING IN SHUL!!! not to each other, not on cell phones. I am sick of seeing people in talleisim and tefilin standing outside their respective shuls in Boro Park and Flatbush talking to each other and on cell phones --Ribbono Shel Olam--this is supposed to be your time to daven and beseech Hashem--with cell phones ?????

ALL OF YOU ARE ENDANGERING OUR CHILDREN--YOURS AND MINE !!!!! STOP IT !!!!!! We lost enough this year--between the little boy who got caught under the bus in Boro Park, the 11 year old who got hit in Boro Park, the 8 year old who still cannot speak or move part of his body and is still in pain, When are you going to wake up !!! GEVALT !!!!! I am a mother and cannot imagine the pain and anguish this family is going through but believe me I feel plenty pain when someone else's child dies even if I didn't know them PLEASE!!!!

this story is so sad, i can hardly breathe. but blaming it on talking in shul? what about agunot? abuse? corruption? tax evasion? chilulim HaShem?
do not mar the memory of two people with this. i do not speak in shul almost at all. but HaShem is more concerned with my aveirot of graver consequence and of which i need to focus my energies to correct and overcome.

67

 Jun 24, 2010 at 04:30 PM Anonymous Says:

It is not on our level to decide why people pass away. The Tosfos Yomtov did not know the reason for the Cossack massacres until he had a dream about it. The families are suffering and trying to find a reason for it, does not bring empathy for the families.In memory of the drowning victims, maybe a fund should be started to teach people how to swim and first aid at pools.

68

 Jun 24, 2010 at 04:40 PM shlomo zalman Says:

Reply to #19  
Milhouse Says:

The Tosfos Yomtov says that talking in shul causes children's deaths. This is not a matter of random speculation.

Now that several posters have challenged your unproven assertions about God's true intentions, it's time to get off your high horse and change a few things. One, stop with the kefirah calling, you are not The Judge. Two, defend your position in public, we can handle it. Three, stop trespassing and stay out of the private domain, your appearance there was outrageous, unacceptable and was a violation of accepted rules, written or unwritten.

69

 Jun 24, 2010 at 05:19 PM tallman Says:

My grandchildren are all under 4 years old. Instead of buying jewelry for our wives and daughters, give the kids swim lessons. They start at the JCC at age 2 and the kids love it. All of my grandkids swim like fish and we don't have a pool in the backyard. You never know when you may need this skill, even in the bathtub or a bucket of water!

70

 Jun 24, 2010 at 05:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

i have a russian jewish babysitter who tried to teach my kids to say merry christmas .......

i also used to say i would never take a goy...but geuss what my mother in law has a poliish lady for 15 years who is more dedicated than anyone i have known.....
my father inlaw also has a non jewish aide who is so sincere and gentle and is by his side 24/7 and wouldnt even leave for a walk...wipes him....and does e/t for him with such dedication that made me realize that you cant stereotype... you always have to be cautious....

u are very lucky to have the good help you do. but the majority of people take help that i have seen and they dont watch the kids that good or are very ruff with the elderly they are taking care of . Rabbonim came out that one should try to hire yiddisha people. There is also always exception to the rule. i am talking from experience. yes we now have a wonderful frum lady taking care of the kids. And yes she is with us for 5 years B"H

71

 Jun 24, 2010 at 06:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
millhorse Says:

from many of the remarks on this event we see that yidden have the same mental defects and superstitions as ofthers in the world.

i talk in shul and i neverthe leass have a beautiful house in lawrence, a brokerage account with more than I will ever need, and descendants all over the place....wise up yidden.

First, thank you for the honesty and self reflection.

I think this: this is a tragedy of such magnitude that people need to find something to blame it on. We feel so powerless when things like this happen, that we have to find something to explain it away so that we can go on living without torturing ourselves. If we can say, I don't talk in Shul so this won't happen to me, we create an illusion of power. This is the the way Hashem made people. Really no-one knows why this happened. No-one knows why people who live the most virtuous of lives have terrible, horrible and unfair things happen. And conversely, no-one knows why people who are absolutely terrible people have great lives. Any human being who says they know this is really pretending to be G-d and I think that is a bigger sin both to G-d and to people than any other.
I think you, the writer of this reply, should tell us what you think. You sound so sane and humble and grateful for what you have I'd love to hear it.

72

 Jun 24, 2010 at 06:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Milhouse Says:

The Tosfos Yomtov says that talking in shul causes children's deaths. This is not a matter of random speculation.

Given the great amount of talking there is in all Shuls, I'm surprised there aren't more people suffering from this tragedy.
I think you should stop spreading this.

73

 Jun 24, 2010 at 07:02 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #68  
shlomo zalman Says:

Now that several posters have challenged your unproven assertions about God's true intentions, it's time to get off your high horse and change a few things. One, stop with the kefirah calling, you are not The Judge. Two, defend your position in public, we can handle it. Three, stop trespassing and stay out of the private domain, your appearance there was outrageous, unacceptable and was a violation of accepted rules, written or unwritten.

Unproven? The Tosfos Yomtov is not proof enough for you? Kefirah is kefirah, no matter how many times you repeat it.

74

 Jun 24, 2010 at 07:05 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #72  
Anonymous Says:

Given the great amount of talking there is in all Shuls, I'm surprised there aren't more people suffering from this tragedy.
I think you should stop spreading this.

Huh? Do you want even more children to die ch"v?! Would you tell someone to stop spreading a warning about hepatitis, or driving without seat belts, etc.? We know that children die because of talking in shul. The Tosfos Yomtov told us so. So when we see children dying and we see talking in shul, we should connect the dots and resolve to be more careful. And we should warn others who might be unaware of the connection, or have forgotten it. Not bury our heads in the sand and pretend that if we ignore it it will go away.

75

 Jun 24, 2010 at 07:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
brooklyn mom Says:

GEVALT YIDDEN WAKE UP !!!!!
Stop talking in shul !!!!! those who talk are killing our children !!!!! how many more do we have to lose before the talkers wake up !!!!!! All of us out there--Chassidish. Litvish, Kipa Seruga. Ashkenazim, Sephardim, frum from birth, baalei teshuva, gerim . the three weeks haven't even started !!! PLEASE STOP TALKING IN SHUL!!! not to each other, not on cell phones. I am sick of seeing people in talleisim and tefilin standing outside their respective shuls in Boro Park and Flatbush talking to each other and on cell phones --Ribbono Shel Olam--this is supposed to be your time to daven and beseech Hashem--with cell phones ?????

ALL OF YOU ARE ENDANGERING OUR CHILDREN--YOURS AND MINE !!!!! STOP IT !!!!!! We lost enough this year--between the little boy who got caught under the bus in Boro Park, the 11 year old who got hit in Boro Park, the 8 year old who still cannot speak or move part of his body and is still in pain, When are you going to wake up !!! GEVALT !!!!! I am a mother and cannot imagine the pain and anguish this family is going through but believe me I feel plenty pain when someone else's child dies even if I didn't know them PLEASE!!!!

Talking in shul is a huge sin to the point that the mishne brura says that the sin is too large to carry. That ia why this happened

76

 Jun 24, 2010 at 07:48 PM Perel Says:

Focus your chesed and energy upon helping the family or saying tefillos and/or learning to allow for aliyat hanefesh. Do not waste your time comforting yourself with the thought that if you follow all the "rules" nothing bad will ever happen to you. Evil words often rebound to the speaker at a later date---beware!
Practice Ahavas Achim and have Rachmones for all who suffer in the world. Lend your loving hand to lift them in their time of tragedy. Be the model of the type of behavior and love you want the Aibeshte to have for you in your time of need.

77

 Jun 24, 2010 at 08:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #74  
Milhouse Says:

Huh? Do you want even more children to die ch"v?! Would you tell someone to stop spreading a warning about hepatitis, or driving without seat belts, etc.? We know that children die because of talking in shul. The Tosfos Yomtov told us so. So when we see children dying and we see talking in shul, we should connect the dots and resolve to be more careful. And we should warn others who might be unaware of the connection, or have forgotten it. Not bury our heads in the sand and pretend that if we ignore it it will go away.

Again, so why is it that it only happens to some people? I think it is very arrogant of you, a man, to judge and to say that this is the reason? Why isn't it happening to the thousands of other people who talk in Shul? And why does it happen to people who DON'T talk in Shul?
If it makes you feel better or more in control to believe this, then it's fine for you. But don't assume things for other people. Because really and truly, it happens to some people who talk in Shul, it doesn't happen to some people who talk in Shul, it happens to people who don't talk in Shul.

78

 Jun 25, 2010 at 12:31 AM Anonymous Says:

Does anyone know if the levaya can be listened to online?

79

 Jun 24, 2010 at 11:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
brooklyn mom Says:

GEVALT YIDDEN WAKE UP !!!!!
Stop talking in shul !!!!! those who talk are killing our children !!!!! how many more do we have to lose before the talkers wake up !!!!!! All of us out there--Chassidish. Litvish, Kipa Seruga. Ashkenazim, Sephardim, frum from birth, baalei teshuva, gerim . the three weeks haven't even started !!! PLEASE STOP TALKING IN SHUL!!! not to each other, not on cell phones. I am sick of seeing people in talleisim and tefilin standing outside their respective shuls in Boro Park and Flatbush talking to each other and on cell phones --Ribbono Shel Olam--this is supposed to be your time to daven and beseech Hashem--with cell phones ?????

ALL OF YOU ARE ENDANGERING OUR CHILDREN--YOURS AND MINE !!!!! STOP IT !!!!!! We lost enough this year--between the little boy who got caught under the bus in Boro Park, the 11 year old who got hit in Boro Park, the 8 year old who still cannot speak or move part of his body and is still in pain, When are you going to wake up !!! GEVALT !!!!! I am a mother and cannot imagine the pain and anguish this family is going through but believe me I feel plenty pain when someone else's child dies even if I didn't know them PLEASE!!!!

If you realy want to help the jewish nation=meaning All jews,frum,non religious,bal chuvas,reform,born from only a jewish mother and father not jewish, convert jew"gair", meaning All jews!! Start loving all of them, stop pointing fingers,stop judging others you are not Hashem! Stop lashon hara! stop hate towards your fellow jew, stop anger, and dont say that they cause you anger, You are the only one that can make your self angry ,nobody else. That is what will save every1,and especialy our children and children to come,B'H.

80

 Jun 24, 2010 at 11:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #74  
Milhouse Says:

Huh? Do you want even more children to die ch"v?! Would you tell someone to stop spreading a warning about hepatitis, or driving without seat belts, etc.? We know that children die because of talking in shul. The Tosfos Yomtov told us so. So when we see children dying and we see talking in shul, we should connect the dots and resolve to be more careful. And we should warn others who might be unaware of the connection, or have forgotten it. Not bury our heads in the sand and pretend that if we ignore it it will go away.

we are very happy you don't ever talk in shul, and every second of your time in shul is for davening, and not putting importance to others doings and judging . As we all know only Hashem can judge! Thank you very much for sharing how wonderful it is that their are many people that focus only on davening their intire time while in shul, and not focusing on what others do, spectacular! Lots of love for you and your family for being soooo special.

81

 Jun 24, 2010 at 11:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #77  
Anonymous Says:

Again, so why is it that it only happens to some people? I think it is very arrogant of you, a man, to judge and to say that this is the reason? Why isn't it happening to the thousands of other people who talk in Shul? And why does it happen to people who DON'T talk in Shul?
If it makes you feel better or more in control to believe this, then it's fine for you. But don't assume things for other people. Because really and truly, it happens to some people who talk in Shul, it doesn't happen to some people who talk in Shul, it happens to people who don't talk in Shul.

Very similar to the gobbledygook we hear in reference to the Shoah .All the kedoshim were murdered because some distant or close relative did or didn't do something or other. No wonder so many of the survivors suffer from guilt-behaviour .

82

 Jun 24, 2010 at 11:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #69  
tallman Says:

My grandchildren are all under 4 years old. Instead of buying jewelry for our wives and daughters, give the kids swim lessons. They start at the JCC at age 2 and the kids love it. All of my grandkids swim like fish and we don't have a pool in the backyard. You never know when you may need this skill, even in the bathtub or a bucket of water!

thanks Hashem! for having the mitzva of a "parent" to teach our children to swim, it is awsome as a parent and grandparent to have the opportunity, ourselves to teach them! And Baruch Hashem for the shalom bais that our wonderful husband are given the gift from Hashem to lovingly give their wonderful wives a gift of jewelry out of simply wanting to bring a smile or just out of love to their " home=wife". Ahhh Hashem is just wonderful, magnificent,ect..... to us. :)

83

 Jun 25, 2010 at 06:16 AM shlomo zalman Says:

So far, we have seen different rabbonim of different time periods offer various punishments for talking in shul. Death of children, shuls destroyed by fire, parnasah problems, and health problems. The Sefer Hassidim of the 13th century is full of situations that cause children's deaths (living in the wrong place, havng the wrong name, etc...). The bottom line is that neither Rabi Yehuda Hachasid, nor the Tosfos Yom Tov, nor the second Lubavitcher rebbe, nor any other person knew why it happened. But it happened alot, and it was simple human nature to look for or even dream of a cause. These claims should not be taken seriously, the fact that a godol "said so" is hardly proof. They were not gedolim by virtue of their ability to provide an explanation for everything. Even in our time, gedolim have provided explanations for almost everything, auto accidents, wars, cancer, even the Holocaust. To each his own, but these explanations are speculation and are certainly not binding.

84

 Jun 25, 2010 at 11:44 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #77  
Anonymous Says:

Again, so why is it that it only happens to some people? I think it is very arrogant of you, a man, to judge and to say that this is the reason? Why isn't it happening to the thousands of other people who talk in Shul? And why does it happen to people who DON'T talk in Shul?
If it makes you feel better or more in control to believe this, then it's fine for you. But don't assume things for other people. Because really and truly, it happens to some people who talk in Shul, it doesn't happen to some people who talk in Shul, it happens to people who don't talk in Shul.

I'm not saying it, the Tosfos Yomtov said it. And you're in no position to contradict him.

85

 Jun 25, 2010 at 11:49 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #83  
shlomo zalman Says:

So far, we have seen different rabbonim of different time periods offer various punishments for talking in shul. Death of children, shuls destroyed by fire, parnasah problems, and health problems. The Sefer Hassidim of the 13th century is full of situations that cause children's deaths (living in the wrong place, havng the wrong name, etc...). The bottom line is that neither Rabi Yehuda Hachasid, nor the Tosfos Yom Tov, nor the second Lubavitcher rebbe, nor any other person knew why it happened. But it happened alot, and it was simple human nature to look for or even dream of a cause. These claims should not be taken seriously, the fact that a godol "said so" is hardly proof. They were not gedolim by virtue of their ability to provide an explanation for everything. Even in our time, gedolim have provided explanations for almost everything, auto accidents, wars, cancer, even the Holocaust. To each his own, but these explanations are speculation and are certainly not binding.

Emunas chachomim is certainly binding. The Tosfos Yomtov said the link between talking in shul and children's deaths was revealed to him from Heaven. Do you think Heaven doesn't know? Or that he was making it up?! This is pure apikorsus.

86

 Jun 25, 2010 at 12:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #85  
Milhouse Says:

Emunas chachomim is certainly binding. The Tosfos Yomtov said the link between talking in shul and children's deaths was revealed to him from Heaven. Do you think Heaven doesn't know? Or that he was making it up?! This is pure apikorsus.

But still I would like to know why it only happens to some people. I haven't gotten a response for this question from you. If it's so set in stone, why isn't there a plague of this just like there's a plague of people talking in Shul? And no, in answer to your sarcastic remark, I don't want anything chas v'sholom to happen to any other children. I just would like to hear why it happens to some and not others, why it happens to people who talk in Shul and people who don't. It seems like a way to scare people into doing something rather than having people do it for the right reason-that it's simply not right to talk in Shul.

87

 Jun 25, 2010 at 02:38 PM Anonymous Says:

#47... Your comment on #46 is off base. Their saying that the nanny must have been walking on the side of the pool and she fell into the deep. And it makes sense that she probably couldn't swim. Now I dont know who you are, but you've got serious problems. Next time, check the facts before you sound like an idiot again.

88

 Jun 25, 2010 at 06:17 PM Actually Says:

I wonder how far we have fallen, that people look at the tragedies of others,and then have the gall to blame it on anyone other than themselves. The Gemara says that Rav Yehoshua ben Levi used to have Eliyahu Hanavi come to him. Then he stopped. And the Gemara explains that it was because a lion ate a man in his neighborhood. and He should have prayed that no one should be hurt in his neighborhood. Oh before i forget, By G-d, the Tosfos Yom Tov was not talking about you telling others that that is why their children died. He was talking about people introspecting.

Perhaps it isn't someone else talking. Perhaps it's us not praying hard enough.

Now that i started let me go further . I think this generation suffers most from two basic ills.
1) that i deserve everything. And if i don't get it i will kick and scream and act out like a kid.
2) that i am better than someone else

If you think into it, that is why we suffer from the shidduch crisis, the schools not taking in children, the agunah crisis. The kids going off.

I wish Yehuda only the best, and hope he and his wife find comfort and get over this tragedy. May Hashem protect our children and bring us salvation.

89

 Jun 27, 2010 at 10:26 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #64  
Anonymous Says:

Who knows what Hashem's reasonings are, but when things like this happen the family must look at themselves. Maybe a Grandparent caused harm to someone? Maybe the parents did not always act appropriately towards others? We can all make guesses, but the bottom line is, we all need to look at ourselves and do better.

You people are insane; this was an accident! It has nothing to do with what the family did or didn't do! Get real people!

90

 Jun 27, 2010 at 12:06 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #86  
Anonymous Says:

But still I would like to know why it only happens to some people. I haven't gotten a response for this question from you. If it's so set in stone, why isn't there a plague of this just like there's a plague of people talking in Shul? And no, in answer to your sarcastic remark, I don't want anything chas v'sholom to happen to any other children. I just would like to hear why it happens to some and not others, why it happens to people who talk in Shul and people who don't. It seems like a way to scare people into doing something rather than having people do it for the right reason-that it's simply not right to talk in Shul.

You can ask the same question about anything the Torah tells us will happen, when we don't see it. The Torah says good deeds are rewarded and bad deeds are punished, so how is it that בפרוח רשעים כמו עשב, ויציצו כל פועלי און? We are required to believe that גומל לאיש חסיד כמפעלו, נותן לרשע רע כרשעתו, so how is it that כי קנאתי בהוללים, שלום רשעים אראה, כי אין חרצבות למותם, ובריא אולם? The Torah says that והיה אם שמע תשמעו...ונתתי גשמיכם בעיתם, and the opposite will happen if not; so how is it that we usually see no correlation between rainfall levels and the level of observance? We're told that anyone who does an avera that's punished by kores will die before 60, and yet we see old people who do many such aveiros. Everyone from Chazal down tries to find answers, but nobody suggests that because we have a question we're entitled to stop believing in what the Torah tells us, or to stop repeating it and teaching it.

91

 Jun 27, 2010 at 05:56 PM Sara536 Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

who leaves their precious kid with a goy? I am sure the valuables were put away in a safe place. u should leave kids with yidden .

This is probably NOT the proper time and place to give your opinion on gentiles and the parents' babysitter choice. Anyhow, you think something like this could never happen to someone Jewish? Please make a greater effort to use your yiddishe cup.

92

 Jun 27, 2010 at 06:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #72  
Anonymous Says:

Given the great amount of talking there is in all Shuls, I'm surprised there aren't more people suffering from this tragedy.
I think you should stop spreading this.

al tiftach peh lasatan!

93

 Jun 27, 2010 at 03:20 PM Anonymous Says:

That's why we have to realize that there is gray in the black and white. Maybe people who are on the level of the Tosfos YomTov will have such a harsh punishment happen to them, but regular people can't be expected to live on that level. There are also so many ways to interpret things while still believing them; that's why there's no black and white to this and why it's unanswerable. I just think that scaring people into doing what's right is not the way to go. That's why we have so many young people off the derech and older people just doing things that have no meaning to them. That's why you have people asking, for example, "can I go get a haircut on my parent's yahrzeit"? Is that even a question to ask? A person who is truly religious, who has truly taken in the teachings of the Rabbis, would't even ask that. Because if you believe in all the "halachot" of the middot and mitzvot, then it's ingrained in you and you don't have to ask a question like that. If you believe in kibud av v'em, you don't need a Rabbi to scare you into doing it.

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 Jun 27, 2010 at 04:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
Rabbi Rosen Says:

Hashem should give the family much strength to overcome their loss. We must look at ourselves closely and refine ourselves to make this world a better place.

One never "gets over" a tragedy of this magnitude. It is with the family forever. We can speculate all day long as to why, what if, should have. Nothing will change reality. Perhaps these things happen, so that people can take a step back and realize how petty their lives can become. It is sad that it always takes something like this to wake people up. And then, after awhile, its business as usual....

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 Jun 28, 2010 at 12:07 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
millhorse Says:

from many of the remarks on this event we see that yidden have the same mental defects and superstitions as ofthers in the world.

i talk in shul and i neverthe leass have a beautiful house in lawrence, a brokerage account with more than I will ever need, and descendants all over the place....wise up yidden.

You sound very smug. The Jews in Germany had what you have also. It can disappear in a minute. It's not about superstitution, its about the patterns of life. One day you're up, the next you're down. Never take anything for granted. And for goodness sake, you're not special because you have these things, only for the moment you're lucky!

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 Jun 27, 2010 at 11:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
brooklyn mom Says:

GEVALT YIDDEN WAKE UP !!!!!
Stop talking in shul !!!!! those who talk are killing our children !!!!! how many more do we have to lose before the talkers wake up !!!!!! All of us out there--Chassidish. Litvish, Kipa Seruga. Ashkenazim, Sephardim, frum from birth, baalei teshuva, gerim . the three weeks haven't even started !!! PLEASE STOP TALKING IN SHUL!!! not to each other, not on cell phones. I am sick of seeing people in talleisim and tefilin standing outside their respective shuls in Boro Park and Flatbush talking to each other and on cell phones --Ribbono Shel Olam--this is supposed to be your time to daven and beseech Hashem--with cell phones ?????

ALL OF YOU ARE ENDANGERING OUR CHILDREN--YOURS AND MINE !!!!! STOP IT !!!!!! We lost enough this year--between the little boy who got caught under the bus in Boro Park, the 11 year old who got hit in Boro Park, the 8 year old who still cannot speak or move part of his body and is still in pain, When are you going to wake up !!! GEVALT !!!!! I am a mother and cannot imagine the pain and anguish this family is going through but believe me I feel plenty pain when someone else's child dies even if I didn't know them PLEASE!!!!

We should not be trying to figure out why this tragedy happened. Hashem has his own plan which is far too complicated for us to understand. On our level, we can improve our behavior, daven for the family, and help those in need,and never ever take what we have for granted. People! enjoy your children, stop trying to send them to camp and school at age two, and complaining about them when they act like children. They will grow up before you know it. Get to know them, cherish them, because they can be gone on an instant.

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 Jun 30, 2010 at 09:05 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

who leaves their precious kid with a goy? I am sure the valuables were put away in a safe place. u should leave kids with yidden .

That has to be one of the silliest remarks ever! Are you saying this could not happen with a Jewish nanny? Really, you must be the most sensitive and kindest person, I would hate to leave my kids with you!

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 Jul 02, 2010 at 01:56 PM Anonymous Says:

the child did have one on one help, but one on one help that wasn't adequate! if she couldnt swim thats not adequate. if the kid wasnt (as she wasnt) wearing any flotation/safety devices while with a nanny who wasnt an swimmer, thats not adequate! parents should at least LEARN from this unfortunate story. bde

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