New York, NY - How the Recession Is Affecting the Jewish Religion |
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News Source: Newsweek
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New York, NY - It sounds like a Catskills-era joke with a Jewish lawyer in the punchline, but among Jewish leaders it’s deadly serious. Why does it cost so much to be Jewish? At a time when American families are tightening household budgets, does it really make sense to continue to charge thousands of dollars to participate in Jewish life? “Sheer institutional survival now preoccupies the heads of Jewish institutions,” wrote Jack Wertheimer in Commentary in March.
American Jews are always worrying about the fate of American Jewry, of course. Intermarriage rates, hovering around 50 percent, are perennially cited as the prime factor in Jews’ inevitable extinction; and in The New York Review of Books last month, the journalist Peter Beinart argued that unless “establishment Jewry” made room for Jewish dissent about Israel, it would wake up to find “a mass of secular Jews who range from apathetic to appalled.” But on the day-to-day level, the high cost of the basics—synagogue membership, in particular—is troubling, both outdated as a business model and onerous to families having to choose between Hebrew school and math tutoring. A 2005 study put the average yearly synagogue membership at $1,100—but in big cities, fees can be twice or even three times as much (and, anecdotally at least, higher than churches, which often depend on voluntary donations rather than dues). At the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue (italics mine) on Manhattan’s Upper West Side, Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch says dues are “consistent with everyone else’s,” about $3,100 a year. (He, like virtually all rabbis, vows never to turn someone away for an inability to pay.)
Beinart’s piece created major blogosphere buzz, but Wertheimer’s gave chills to professional Jews everywhere. It focused mostly on the plight of the Orthodox, more likely to be poor than Conservative or Reform Jews, and who, because of their strong commitment, often pay more. According to his calculations, an Orthodox Jewish family with three children could expect to spend between $50,000 and $110,000 a year on school fees, synagogue dues, summer camps, and kosher food. He argued that the fate of American Jewry rested on increased and enthusiastic support from philanthropists and activists to enable these families to live, as he would say, “Jewishly.”
In 2008, 2.7 million Americans called themselves religiously Jewish, down from 3.1 million in 1990. Costly barriers to entry need to be taken away, or, at least, reimagined. “We have this very bizarre pay-to-play philosophy,” says Jay Sanderson, president of the Jewish Federation of Greater Los Angeles. Christian churches, Sanderson points out, begin with an invitation to prayer; they ask for money later. “The Jewish community’s first instinct is ‘give us money,’ instead of ‘come in.’ ” Sanderson points to the wild success of the Chabad movement, the black-clad proselytizers who stand on street corners worldwide, extending invitations to Jewish passersby. Come pray with us, they say; come eat with us. “Chabad,” says Sanderson, “is working on the Christian model.”
It would be a mistake to assume that Jewish success depends on emulating Christians. Throughout the 20th century, as Jews became prosperous, they built massive synagogues and community centers. Many looked like churches, with stained-glass windows and organ pipes; their pews were full of Jews who had, in a very real sense, nowhere else to go. The country clubs wouldn’t have them; their community, religious, and social life revolved around the temple. Today, American Jews have all kinds of choices about where to spend time and money—Jews no longer need a Jewish pool to swim in—and the buildings have become a burden. “The bills are very high,” says Arnold Eisen, chancellor of the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York, who paid $4,000 this year in temple dues. “People need sacred spaces, but when you’re looking at budgets, you’re looking at heat and air conditioning.”
Eisen believes that money questions will force a painful transition in American Judaism. He agrees that the “middle group is in play” and so is seeking to reduce costs to families through something like corporate downsizing: making alliances across denominations, sharing spaces, rabbis, and staff. “Jews have been around for a long time,” says Eisen. “We’ll adjust.”
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Read Comments (62) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 08, 2010 at 07:37 PM chasidic shvontz Says:Report as Inappropriate
With 4 children, i spend 20k on tuition,+6k on camps,+16k for food -50% which a guy also spends in food,= $34k so I got a good deal?
2
Jul 08, 2010 at 07:52 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Unfortunately, the writer seems to believe that he'd be doing Judaism a big favor by remaining in the fold - he's deeply mistaken.
3
Jul 08, 2010 at 07:55 PM solution Says:Report as Inappropriate
one word: homeschool
4
Jul 08, 2010 at 08:29 PM shmuly Says:Report as Inappropriate
2 points
1 chabad black hatters are not imitating any models chas veshalom only sharing a unique heritage with some one who dosnt know what it is and the best way is let them interact with you let them do a mitzvah on the spot and feel their own connetion
2 the key toassimilation is jewish education
5
Jul 08, 2010 at 08:32 PM boochie Says:Report as Inappropriate
I have 4 kids in yeshivah and BY = $28,000
I have nothing more to add
6
Jul 08, 2010 at 08:38 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Several shuls on the upper west side already are doing that by renting church spaces as they are larger, better looking and cheaper than to make people pay 3000 dollars a year to sit and watch some rich families buy all the aliyas and front row seats on holidays.
7
Jul 08, 2010 at 08:40 PM mivtzoim activist Says:Report as Inappropriate
oh great i need, a Jay Sanderson, president of the Jewish Federation of Greater Los Angeles...to tell me im a proselytizer working on the christian model?!? first of all that isn't even a proper word, and for all you who dont know a proselyte is a convert, since when was chabad making converts? why doesn't this interview chabad and see what model they are working on?
8
Jul 08, 2010 at 09:13 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Chabad succeeds because people are happy to open their wallets if you treat them with love and respect.
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Jul 08, 2010 at 09:19 PM Bobover Says:Report as Inappropriate
True! Long live Chabad! They are the best! I love them!!
10
Jul 08, 2010 at 09:22 PM BOB Says:Report as Inappropriate
What a terrible article. 1 major missing point is that Jews don't have to emulate any religion, all of the religions in the whole wide world copied and are still copying Judaism, Jews have one major advantage that we are G-ds chosen and beloved people and we will never cease to exist. G-D loves us and all the other religions and nations are jealous of us.
11
Jul 08, 2010 at 09:29 PM Loshon Hora Says:Report as Inappropriate
These are all coservative & reform, they were and are bankrupt in all ways. Good riddence to them.
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Jul 08, 2010 at 09:38 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ With 4 children, i spend 20k on tuition,+6k on camps,+16k for food -50% which a guy also spends in food,= $34k so I got a good deal? ”
you don't pay synagogue dues.
13
Jul 08, 2010 at 09:40 PM 5TownsGirl Says:Report as Inappropriate
3 kids in MO Yeshiva $37750
3 camp tuitions (sleep away + day camp) $10,700
Food= $15000
I guess I'm lucky that shul dues are a bargain at $1200.
14
Jul 08, 2010 at 09:43 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ With 4 children, i spend 20k on tuition,+6k on camps,+16k for food -50% which a guy also spends in food,= $34k so I got a good deal? ”
your lucky. I live out of NY send my kids to yeshivish schools and camps the numbers are way different 12500 per child school (no bussing either or lunch) = 50,000
camp 2k a month = 16000.00
forget about food and all the other items. your getting away pretty cheap
15
Jul 08, 2010 at 09:47 PM Say What? Says:Report as Inappropriate
I have no cluse what kind of synagogue they are talking about, but I guess it must be the reform ones. They are all about money. Orthodox shuls in Baltimore charge an average of 500 a year for membership, and about 150 for High Holiday seats and that's for the "premium" seats. Seems like the further away from Torah Judaism you get, the more it costs. Being Orthodox, at least in Baltimore, is not that expensive at all. Of course, the shul Rabbis don't get paid a 6 figure salary either, and well they shouldn't. Nor do they have a cantor commanding big bucks either. A shul is for davening, not a concert or a show. The reform want to be entertained twice a year, and the place is probably empty the other 363 days. The Ortho shuls are full every single day. Now explain that to me. Our shteibels serve the greater good. Theirs serve avodah zara.
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Jul 08, 2010 at 09:55 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ 2 points
1 chabad black hatters are not imitating any models chas veshalom only sharing a unique heritage with some one who dosnt know what it is and the best way is let them interact with you let them do a mitzvah on the spot and feel their own connetion
2 the key toassimilation is jewish education ”
"2 the key toassimilation is jewish education"- yes, but Jewish education doesn't do anything if too many Jews can't afford it. Also, the Jews who are at highest risk for assimilation are not willing to part with that kind of money. Something needs to be done to make our lifestyle affordable.
17
Jul 08, 2010 at 09:58 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What a terrible article. 1 major missing point is that Jews don't have to emulate any religion, all of the religions in the whole wide world copied and are still copying Judaism, Jews have one major advantage that we are G-ds chosen and beloved people and we will never cease to exist. G-D loves us and all the other religions and nations are jealous of us. ”
They are NOT emulating other religions, nor is anyone suggesting such. The FACT is that Catholics have large families and manage to send their kids to their schools without going bankrupt, while we cannot. Clearly, they are doing something right (in that regard) and we should maybe look into that and try to replicate it for ourselves.
18
Jul 08, 2010 at 10:18 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Ok but take into consideration how many people have free medical because they are on welfare. take into consideration how many people do not pay their taxes because they get paid under the books. To have a Jewish life is relatively easy. Try having a LEGAL American Jewish life. Only then you can complain!
19
Jul 08, 2010 at 10:36 PM real jew Says:Report as Inappropriate
He's missing the point. The Gemara says that any money spent on Shabbos and Yom Tov preparation and to teach your children Torah isn't included in the calculation of the money that is determined at the beginning of a year that a person will make. So, basically its all free.
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Jul 08, 2010 at 10:39 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ With 4 children, i spend 20k on tuition,+6k on camps,+16k for food -50% which a guy also spends in food,= $34k so I got a good deal? ”
20K on tuition! I need to move to where you live. My son's HS charges $16 per kid. I have a 9th and 12th grader!!!
21
Jul 08, 2010 at 10:53 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
In Miami, the avarage tuition is 13,000.00, and 19,000.00 if you kid stays in a dorm. Kosher food is very expensive. An average family with 3 kids, could expect to spend about 24,000.00 a year extra, for cholov yisroel, pas yisroel and glatt kosher products. Sending kids to camp is about 4,000.00 per kid, and must be paid in advance. So here you have it: Almost 70,000.00 extra to live a Jewish life. The guy was pretty much on target.
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Jul 08, 2010 at 10:57 PM shimon Says:Report as Inappropriate
Reform synagogue fees: $3,100? That's $1,550 per visit. Forget doctors and lawyers, this is the best job ever.
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Jul 08, 2010 at 11:07 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
While all of you seem to disagree with the writer about some of his details and facts, his article was about the high cost of orthodox lifestyles and how its going to be difficult for people to continue. His point is that there will be a number of people that will leave because of costs. You don't have to agree, but his article was not about chabad or very chassidishe people. In the tristate area, elementary schools are demanding 8000.00 and up and High Schools 12000.00 and up. Not everyone is given discounts and scholarships. The cost of maintaining a frum lifestyle is truly an enormous financial challenge!
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Jul 08, 2010 at 11:13 PM oy vey Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Ok but take into consideration how many people have free medical because they are on welfare. take into consideration how many people do not pay their taxes because they get paid under the books. To have a Jewish life is relatively easy. Try having a LEGAL American Jewish life. Only then you can complain! ”
The problem is that historically when there was poverty in klal yisroel there was a lack of spirituality as a result. A primary factor in the rebirth of chareidi orthodoxy in the second half of the 20th century was the financial success and stability of the american jews. If this no longer holds, we might go back C"V to the problems we faced in pre WWII ..we need hedoilim to guide us through these shvere tzieten.
25
Jul 08, 2010 at 11:33 PM poshiter yid Says:Report as Inappropriate
my 2 kids out of town yeshivas ask for 13 grand a year i give them $10,000 which they are happy with my sons elementary school asks for $7,000 which i give them for 3 kids sleepaway camp i pay 10 grand my grocery bill is a $1000 a month and usally double around yomim tovim my shul charges $900 a year all the yeshiva dinners that i attend
are around 300 a piece my maser to my $125,000 is 12,500 this is about 70,000 grand in yiddeshe expenses which is alot (and i have a nice salary) but i would never trade it to be a shaigetz anyday i say sheloi usani goy with full kavanah and thank hashem that im not a piste proste goy so for all those who are paying the "price" for being jewish be proud cause anti semitisim is pure jealosy I AM PROUD TO BE A YID
26
Jul 09, 2010 at 12:43 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ They are NOT emulating other religions, nor is anyone suggesting such. The FACT is that Catholics have large families and manage to send their kids to their schools without going bankrupt, while we cannot. Clearly, they are doing something right (in that regard) and we should maybe look into that and try to replicate it for ourselves. ”
Catholic schools max out tuition at 3 children, or at least that used to be the case when I had co-workers who sent their children to Catholic school. 17 years ago, when I was paying about $4K per child, Parochial School was about $900 per child. But now, even the Catholic schools are suffering. They have closed down a number of schools in NY city. A Church School in my neighborhood rented its space to the NYC public system. Catholic schools used to have mostly Nuns and Priests teaching, but their numbers are dwindling. They had a huge cost savings because the Catholic Clergy take a bow of poverty. Now, they have to pay more and more teachers (with benefits). Catholic schools are also struggling, just maybe not as much as Yeshivot.
27
Jul 09, 2010 at 02:54 AM Anon Ibid Opcit Says:Report as Inappropriate
Combine the long-term economic downturn and the increasing difficulty of earning a good (legal) living. Add in large families and the removal of a huge portion of men from economic work as they spend decades in kollel. Consider that government benefits of all sorts are shrinking. With hard times we have less to give to our fellow Jews. Some of the worst crooks like Madoff have dealt body blows to the traditional charities.
And the extra costs of schools, housing, camps, kosher food and weddings continue to rise faster than overall inflation let alone wages.
The system is economically unsustainable. The money just isn't there now and won't be. We must adapt as we have many times in the past or we will be destroyed.
28
Jul 09, 2010 at 03:38 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
In 1960 there was an article in the Life Magazine which predicted that by the year 2000 there will not be any orthodox Jews left in America. They were wrong but still everything possible should be done to make the cost of educating our children more affordable.
29
Jul 09, 2010 at 03:51 AM Yishai Kohen Says:Report as Inappropriate
Make aliyah. besides being a mitzvah mideoraita (see the Ramban), it's much cheaper and easier to have and raise kids here.
30
Jul 09, 2010 at 03:51 AM continued... Says:Report as Inappropriate
As a businessman, I cant see how you can remain silent.. in business we call this "double dipping" its like renting your delivery van out to your delivery guy so he can use it after work!!!
I cant open a jewish publication without seeing appeals for yeshivos.. there are yeshivos closing daily, parents struggling to pay tuition.. teachers getting paid bubkes..
Demand right now for tuition reform...we are raising a generation of flunkies and they are busy worried about climate control....
31
Jul 09, 2010 at 04:48 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ The problem is that historically when there was poverty in klal yisroel there was a lack of spirituality as a result. A primary factor in the rebirth of chareidi orthodoxy in the second half of the 20th century was the financial success and stability of the american jews. If this no longer holds, we might go back C"V to the problems we faced in pre WWII ..we need hedoilim to guide us through these shvere tzieten. ”
you and this goy writing the article do not take bitochen in hashem into the equation. you dont know the maymer 'kol mezonosof shel adam ketziven lo...' he writes like one who dosnt believe in diety.we are not tachas hamezel etc et
32
Jul 09, 2010 at 06:37 AM professor Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ my 2 kids out of town yeshivas ask for 13 grand a year i give them $10,000 which they are happy with my sons elementary school asks for $7,000 which i give them for 3 kids sleepaway camp i pay 10 grand my grocery bill is a $1000 a month and usally double around yomim tovim my shul charges $900 a year all the yeshiva dinners that i attend
are around 300 a piece my maser to my $125,000 is 12,500 this is about 70,000 grand in yiddeshe expenses which is alot (and i have a nice salary) but i would never trade it to be a shaigetz anyday i say sheloi usani goy with full kavanah and thank hashem that im not a piste proste goy so for all those who are paying the "price" for being jewish be proud cause anti semitisim is pure jealosy I AM PROUD TO BE A YID ”
The article is stating that there is a growing majority of people that can't afford those expenses. In his world synagogue membership is the issue. For us the issue is tuition. Many people simply can't afford the fixings that go along with being a frum yid.
"Oy vi gut tzu zein a yid.!"
33
Jul 09, 2010 at 06:45 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ They are NOT emulating other religions, nor is anyone suggesting such. The FACT is that Catholics have large families and manage to send their kids to their schools without going bankrupt, while we cannot. Clearly, they are doing something right (in that regard) and we should maybe look into that and try to replicate it for ourselves. ”
Catholic schools traditionally let parents use school tuition as tax deductible charitable expense. On top of that, nuns don't get salaries.
34
Jul 09, 2010 at 06:51 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ The problem is that historically when there was poverty in klal yisroel there was a lack of spirituality as a result. A primary factor in the rebirth of chareidi orthodoxy in the second half of the 20th century was the financial success and stability of the american jews. If this no longer holds, we might go back C"V to the problems we faced in pre WWII ..we need hedoilim to guide us through these shvere tzieten. ”
Good. Most of that post-war orthodoxy was hypocritical and fake. There was nothing like this in Europe.
35
Jul 09, 2010 at 07:07 AM formerlyatemplejew Says:Report as Inappropriate
At these temples your membership dues are a % of your income- anywhere from 1%-3% of your income. They usually ask to see tax returns when you join and these people usually turn them over. I can't imagine our batei knesset having the chutzpa to do this. What do these temples provide for service? Really not much. The $$ go to the edifice upkeep and to the bloated bureacuracy they have ("rabbi" usally a female "cantor," various other administrative positions). No wonder they all quit after their kids have their "bnei mitzvah."
36
Jul 09, 2010 at 07:16 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I was told yesterday that one girls' school in Queens charges $22,000 A YEAR for tuition. I'm sure they don't actually collect that!
Most Shuls' fees include burial costs, so you can knock off a huge lump sum after 120 years. As far as I know, not one Chassidishe shul charges anyone anything, not even for Yomim Noraim (unless they need to rent space.)
As for the Chabad slur...so what's new? A lot of Frum & even Chassidic folk think it's OK to attack Chabad. We're used to it. It's always the same, when you have a successful model there are always going to be detractors & lots of jealousy.
One thing this article didn't cover...the cost of marrying kids off. Now THAT'S outrageous!
37
Jul 09, 2010 at 07:52 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
yep - it costs me over $100k a year to pay for tuition, camp, kosher food, shabbos clothing, shul dues, mandatory school and shul building funds etc...
i have to make $200k a year to pay my taxes and pay to be frum - i can't even put away a penny towards retirement or towards vacations (that I really need) - and the worst is that i make more money than 95% of americans and i live like pauper...
it's a luxury to be frum! who needs it anyways....
38
Jul 09, 2010 at 08:06 AM need a loan Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ my 2 kids out of town yeshivas ask for 13 grand a year i give them $10,000 which they are happy with my sons elementary school asks for $7,000 which i give them for 3 kids sleepaway camp i pay 10 grand my grocery bill is a $1000 a month and usally double around yomim tovim my shul charges $900 a year all the yeshiva dinners that i attend
are around 300 a piece my maser to my $125,000 is 12,500 this is about 70,000 grand in yiddeshe expenses which is alot (and i have a nice salary) but i would never trade it to be a shaigetz anyday i say sheloi usani goy with full kavanah and thank hashem that im not a piste proste goy so for all those who are paying the "price" for being jewish be proud cause anti semitisim is pure jealosy I AM PROUD TO BE A YID ”
Is there any money left from your 12,500 dollars ma'aser money because I could do with a loan for a few months.
39
Jul 09, 2010 at 08:16 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ one word: homeschool ”
I do not know hebrew..so no option in having homeschool unless the kids only learn in secular studies...
40
Jul 09, 2010 at 08:19 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ my 2 kids out of town yeshivas ask for 13 grand a year i give them $10,000 which they are happy with my sons elementary school asks for $7,000 which i give them for 3 kids sleepaway camp i pay 10 grand my grocery bill is a $1000 a month and usally double around yomim tovim my shul charges $900 a year all the yeshiva dinners that i attend
are around 300 a piece my maser to my $125,000 is 12,500 this is about 70,000 grand in yiddeshe expenses which is alot (and i have a nice salary) but i would never trade it to be a shaigetz anyday i say sheloi usani goy with full kavanah and thank hashem that im not a piste proste goy so for all those who are paying the "price" for being jewish be proud cause anti semitisim is pure jealosy I AM PROUD TO BE A YID ”
my husband has not had his wages raised for two year due to budgets and i don't see how it is so wonderful in being frum which is so expensive.. i wanted to move kids to public school as school tuition is killing us and we are losing our house cuz of this.. so what is so wonderful about it?
41
Jul 09, 2010 at 08:48 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
so what. We have 3 in state colleges = $60,000 (1 is in grad school). they still have to eat at home, all kinds of cash spent to give them a better life, probably another $30,000. So no matter what, if the kids go to yeshiva (and they did) and now a family needs to send their kinder off to college, the bills keep on ticking. everyone makes a choice. We chose to send the kinder to yeshiva, we chose to send them to college, we chose to send them to grad school. What are we to do, not be yidden, not be parents? crazy article.
42
Jul 09, 2010 at 09:55 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I hate to suggest that one way to lower costs might just be to consolidate some resources. Perhaps tuition would go down a bit if some schools actually got together and merged? But then you'd have some out of work Rosh Yeshivas and we couldn't have that now, could we?
43
Jul 09, 2010 at 10:01 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ my 2 kids out of town yeshivas ask for 13 grand a year i give them $10,000 which they are happy with my sons elementary school asks for $7,000 which i give them for 3 kids sleepaway camp i pay 10 grand my grocery bill is a $1000 a month and usally double around yomim tovim my shul charges $900 a year all the yeshiva dinners that i attend
are around 300 a piece my maser to my $125,000 is 12,500 this is about 70,000 grand in yiddeshe expenses which is alot (and i have a nice salary) but i would never trade it to be a shaigetz anyday i say sheloi usani goy with full kavanah and thank hashem that im not a piste proste goy so for all those who are paying the "price" for being jewish be proud cause anti semitisim is pure jealosy I AM PROUD TO BE A YID ”
I too am proud to be yid. I too am willing to spend every penny I have to serve Hashem. But that doesn't change the fact that there simply isn't enough money to cover it all. Bitachon isn't going to make all that money that doesn't exist suddenly materialize.
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Jul 09, 2010 at 10:15 AM Dr. E Says:Report as Inappropriate
In some communities at least, few parents end up paying "retail tuition" and hondel a discount, which may be why some of the amounts actually being paid are low.
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Jul 09, 2010 at 10:30 AM knowitall Says:Report as Inappropriate
Bet you that those who complain about synagogue dues don't hesitate to take a $10,000 vacation in Europe or the Bahamas at first class hotels. It all boils down to priorities. If religion is not important to you, then you have no money for it.
46
Jul 09, 2010 at 10:53 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ At these temples your membership dues are a % of your income- anywhere from 1%-3% of your income. They usually ask to see tax returns when you join and these people usually turn them over. I can't imagine our batei knesset having the chutzpa to do this. What do these temples provide for service? Really not much. The $$ go to the edifice upkeep and to the bloated bureacuracy they have ("rabbi" usally a female "cantor," various other administrative positions). No wonder they all quit after their kids have their "bnei mitzvah." ”
You are just fabricating this false lying story! I work with reform and conservative Jews and nobody is releasing their personal tax returns or W2’s to become a member, the synagogues are happy if they just show up a few times a year.
47
Jul 09, 2010 at 10:58 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I have 4 kids in yeshivah and BY = $28,000
I have nothing more to add ”
I dont know where you live or what kind of assisance you receive but your figures are not the figures I pay!
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Jul 09, 2010 at 11:36 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Bet you that those who complain about synagogue dues don't hesitate to take a $10,000 vacation in Europe or the Bahamas at first class hotels. It all boils down to priorities. If religion is not important to you, then you have no money for it. ”
there are plenty of people who never go on vacation, drive old cars that break down every 3 days and eat rice and beans during the week who still can't afford tuition. if the money isn't there, it isn't there regardless of the person's commitment to yiddishkeit.
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Jul 09, 2010 at 11:23 AM rivkie Says:Report as Inappropriate
It is not just the orthodox lifestyle...life is expensive everywhere for everyone. However, it would be definitely the right thing to do for shuls and schools to stop trying to make money from members, tuition etc and rather have other methods of fundraising....it takes an increase in btochon but surely it would give great nachas to Hashem and He would bestow greater blessing. I remember a story of the Lubavitcher Rebbe many years ago: a school in france could not afford to feed its students. the menahel went to teh REbbe and the Rebbe told them the segula is to accept more students, and all for free. the school did so and a big donor came along and gave them a lot of money in that merit and the school expanded and today is a huge institution...all because they took in students for free and made life possible for yidden. Hashem gives bracha to that.
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Jul 09, 2010 at 12:39 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
As far as tuition costs are concerned, if Chris Christie is successful with his voucher program then at least in New Jersey it will be a lot more affordable to send your kids to a Jewish school.
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Jul 09, 2010 at 01:01 PM driving miss daisy Says:Report as Inappropriate
I concur with formerlyatemplejew's comment about showing your W2 statements.
I was a member of "The Temple" in Atlanta, GA as well. They forced me to give my actual W-2 copy to them and they assessed me 3% of my income for annual dues. If I did not comply -- no holiday tickets for me. Everyone in the congregation did that as well. I can't speak about New York dues, because I became a member of Chabad upon moving to NYC.
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Jul 09, 2010 at 01:18 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ my 2 kids out of town yeshivas ask for 13 grand a year i give them $10,000 which they are happy with my sons elementary school asks for $7,000 which i give them for 3 kids sleepaway camp i pay 10 grand my grocery bill is a $1000 a month and usally double around yomim tovim my shul charges $900 a year all the yeshiva dinners that i attend
are around 300 a piece my maser to my $125,000 is 12,500 this is about 70,000 grand in yiddeshe expenses which is alot (and i have a nice salary) but i would never trade it to be a shaigetz anyday i say sheloi usani goy with full kavanah and thank hashem that im not a piste proste goy so for all those who are paying the "price" for being jewish be proud cause anti semitisim is pure jealosy I AM PROUD TO BE A YID ”
say it again Shelo Osani Goy! I'm not a piste prossteh pritzkoh shaigetz!!!! Let's say it all together once again!!!!!!
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Jul 09, 2010 at 01:37 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ one word: homeschool ”
That is one of the most brilliant comments I have come across.
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Jul 09, 2010 at 02:44 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ yep - it costs me over $100k a year to pay for tuition, camp, kosher food, shabbos clothing, shul dues, mandatory school and shul building funds etc...
i have to make $200k a year to pay my taxes and pay to be frum - i can't even put away a penny towards retirement or towards vacations (that I really need) - and the worst is that i make more money than 95% of americans and i live like pauper...
it's a luxury to be frum! who needs it anyways.... ”
There isn't a pauper in the world who wouldn't want to change places with you .
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Jul 09, 2010 at 03:27 PM reba Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ there are plenty of people who never go on vacation, drive old cars that break down every 3 days and eat rice and beans during the week who still can't afford tuition. if the money isn't there, it isn't there regardless of the person's commitment to yiddishkeit. ”
Yup! We had to homeschool. It wasn't my first choice, it was my only choice. B"H our two eldest have finished college online also. It works, but it is not easy. The other problem is shidduchim, I would like to find boys who do not demand that you support them (and I don't mean by living in a spare bedroom).
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Jul 09, 2010 at 04:44 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Rav Samson Rafael Hirsch ZTZL wrote that he wished it were possible to close all Shuls for 100 years so Yiddishe families could daven in their OWN homes. The Rav wrote that it would be better for Yidden to make their homes like the Beis HaMikdash and make their homes KODESH -- with davening, learning, and living kosher TORAH lives right in the homes, their Mikdash Maat (Their Personal Holy Temple). I have always taken that to heart and have seforim all over my home. I never worry about missing a minyan so I can daven at home and relax and enjoy it and then learn afterwards. I believe that more families need to make their homes the Mikdash Maat. Teach their children there, daven there, eat there, relax there. Enough of this money society !!!
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Jul 09, 2010 at 05:10 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ 2 points
1 chabad black hatters are not imitating any models chas veshalom only sharing a unique heritage with some one who dosnt know what it is and the best way is let them interact with you let them do a mitzvah on the spot and feel their own connetion
2 the key toassimilation is jewish education ”
I'm a teacher in a Yeshiva so I hate to say this, but I think the key to assimilation is Orthodox sleepaway camps. If you get the children away from the parents, and put them into bunks where they are not the most important people in the world, where their parents aren't there to protect them from everything, and they have counselors with great middot you can get them to think about and practice their Judaism in the correct way. They will also learn how to treat other people without being mollycoddled. Schools can't do it because the minute a child feels bad about something they tell their parents, their parents immediately come to complain, often using their tuition as a bargaining tool and teachers just have to throw their hands up. I have never had a problem with a child-if fact the opposite-so this is not sour grapes, it's just the way it is. The sense of entitlement is mind boggling.
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Jul 09, 2010 at 05:16 PM professor Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ There isn't a pauper in the world who wouldn't want to change places with you . ”
It is sad that you don't believe in what you work so hard for. Orthodox Judaism provides a great social structure for its adherents. Oy vi gut tzu zein a Yid!
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Jul 09, 2010 at 05:41 PM esther Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ While all of you seem to disagree with the writer about some of his details and facts, his article was about the high cost of orthodox lifestyles and how its going to be difficult for people to continue. His point is that there will be a number of people that will leave because of costs. You don't have to agree, but his article was not about chabad or very chassidishe people. In the tristate area, elementary schools are demanding 8000.00 and up and High Schools 12000.00 and up. Not everyone is given discounts and scholarships. The cost of maintaining a frum lifestyle is truly an enormous financial challenge! ”
you're absolutely right.here in LA in the pico- robertson area there is a public school called canfeild which has been dubbed the frum public shcool.it has many frum children who are there because their parents can't afford tuition as well as many frum special needs kids because our city is way behind NY in frum sp ed.
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Jul 09, 2010 at 06:04 PM esther Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ my husband has not had his wages raised for two year due to budgets and i don't see how it is so wonderful in being frum which is so expensive.. i wanted to move kids to public school as school tuition is killing us and we are losing our house cuz of this.. so what is so wonderful about it? ”
i'm sorry you're going through such a hard time.Hashem should bentsch you with lots of parnassa.in the mean time you are the akeres habayis and your family needs you to try and focus on the brachos in your life and to have bitachon. i'm saying this to you as someone who struggles everyday with these issues.
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Jul 11, 2010 at 03:29 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
to number 54, do you really think so? I am in a similar boat to number 37. I know many people who offically do not have money and they have money to do many things i cannot afford like vacations and home renovations. they receive gov't help and get breaks on everything because they have no money. We B"H have what is considered a good income and have little money left over for extras. We are expected to pay everything in full which basically uses up the entire income. I find it ironic when I babysit for my neighbor who offically has no money while they go on vacation and we have not gone away for more than one night (one time only) for more than ten years. I could go on and on with examples.
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Jul 12, 2010 at 10:51 AM anominous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I would like to hear if people get payment breaks from camps, and how much do people making around $100K pay per child in school? I pay about $5,000/kid in elementary. We never asked for breaks from camps but are in need of them now....