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New York- Judge Orders Satmar Dispute Over Cemetery Must Go To Bet Din

Published on: July 22, 2010 07:38 AM
Last updated on: July 22, 2010 09:44 PM
By: Law Journal /  Record
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New York - The fight for control of the Satmar Hasidic community’s Kiryas Joel cemetery must be resolved in a religious court, not a civil one, an Orange County judge has ruled.

Acting Supreme Court Justice Victor J. Alfieri held that the matter fell squarely within the congregation’s bylaws, which require disputes between members to be decided by a rabbinical court.

“Since the Congregation’s bylaws are a secular corporate document adopted by its members pursuant to New York law, this Court finds that the Congregation and its members adopted the Rabbinical Court, i.e., the Din Torah…as the alternative dispute resolution mechanism of choice for disputes between and among members of its congregation,” Justice Alfieri held in Friedman v. CYL Cemetery, 8208-2009.

The Orange County Supreme Court decision will be published in the print edition of Monday’s Law Journal. 

The judge further ordered that the panel hearing the matter consist of three specific Rabbinical Court judges who are already hearing at least two other succession-related disputes—Yitzchok Chaim Zeltrenreich, Yekusiel Zalman Graus and Mordechai Babad.

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The leadership of the Satmar community has been in dispute since before the death of its longtime head, Moshe Teitelbaum, in 2006. His sons, Rabbis Aaron and Zalman Teitelbaum have fought over which son the father intended to lead the 100,000-plus member community. As noted by Justice Alfieri, the congregation is involved in 23 separate legal actions.

The two sides—often referred to as the Aaronites and the Zalmanites—have fought, both personally and through their supporters, over such issues as property, synagogues, elections and yeshivas. News reports have estimated that the disputed real estate alone is worth more than $500 million.

The suit before Justice Alfieri ostensibly involves only the Satmar cemetery, which is the final resting place of Moshe Teitelbaum. but it also constitutes an important front in the battle, both practically and psychologically, according to Andrew Fisher, an attorney for the Aaronite defendants.

“The rebbe is buried there so there’s enormous significance, both religious and economic,” said Mr. Fisher. “There’s a real honor to be buried as close to the rebbe as possible. There’s symbolism, there’s Jewish law, there’s politics, but more importantly this presents an opportunity for all of these religious disputes to have a real, proper, identifiable religious court.”

The cemetery dispute escalated following the death of a 41-year-old member of the Zalmanite faction in August 2009. Faced with Aaronite control of the cemetery and Jewish laws requiring speedy burial, the Zalmanite faction dug a grave in a nearby clearing, which they hoped to have dedicated as a new cemetery.

The Orange County Department of Planning did not return a call for comment.

Mr. Fisher, of Fisher & Fisher, called Justice Alfieri’s decision a victory for the Aaronites, who have argued that the matter, as well as all the other succession-related fights between the two factions, should be settled by the Beth Din.

David Smith of Smith Campbell represented the Zalmanite plaintiffs. He did not return a call for comment.



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1

 Jul 22, 2010 at 07:43 AM Jewish Alliance for Youth Says:

Now we will have the battle of which bais din to use. I hear that the conservatives want to go into the Kosher business - they might have a bais din set up at JTS that can solve the Satmar problem without going into any halacha

2

 Jul 22, 2010 at 07:45 AM Anonymous Says:

it takes a village...................
what a shame that they did not know this themselves.
after all the legal expenses that we poor people have to pay.............

3

 Jul 22, 2010 at 07:45 AM Anonymous Says:

This judge is such a genius - "tell them to go to a bais din" - amazing. Perhaps all the others should have known this - probably they were too busy counting assets. Chillul Hashem big time.

4

 Jul 22, 2010 at 07:46 AM Anonymous Says:

This is a good sign. Now maybe all the Litvishe Yeshivos in Eretz Yisroel like Grodna - Ponovitch will also follow suit and stop thier Machlokes and settle up by a din torah and will go out of the Israeli Court process.

5

 Jul 22, 2010 at 07:49 AM Anonymous Says:

This is not only a Chassidish problem of going thru the court system thinking that justice is with them. The Litvish / Yesshivish system do the exact same. Hopefully a lesson will now be leaned that going to din torah is the right thing.

6

 Jul 22, 2010 at 07:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Maybe the court should also appoint a beth din, otherwise that alone is a friction between these two brothers!

7

 Jul 22, 2010 at 07:50 AM Roebling Says:

Now to go to court to decide which bet din-this should take another 9 years.
Since Bet Din are impartial and dont play into politics-Money- or Power it
should be Good. (Being Sarcastic)

8

 Jul 22, 2010 at 07:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Oh vay the torah saying you need to go to a beth din is not enough you gotta have goish judge to say it "what a shame"

9

 Jul 22, 2010 at 07:57 AM Anonymous Says:

First off, I never see the two agreeing on a Beis Din ever. 2nd, were they to agree, no way will they obey. Waste of time.

10

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:00 AM Anonymous Says:

The Judge GRANTED for Reb Aron's side what they asked in a motion to not look in the case but to send it to Beth Din.

11

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:03 AM Anonymous Says:

Why do we need to wait for a goy to tell us?

12

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:07 AM Anonymous Says:

Shame on us, that we only listen when the Goy tells it to us.

13

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:09 AM Anonymous Says:

Now they will be sitting in Bes Din forever just like in Bobov because the Rabonim don't have the backbone or will to finish these din torahs "Satmar made Chilul Hashem by going to court- Bobov made an even bigger Chilul Hashem by going to Bes Din"

14

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:20 AM Anonymous Says:

DUH!!! Isn't that what Jews are supposed to do? So how many hundreds of thousands of dollars, not to mention incalculable agmos nefesh for Satmar (and the Rebbetzin A"H whose shiva just ended) was expended before this genius figured it out?

Why couldn't they have done this to begin with. Power & money. Glad I don't have either, my kids will get along just fine after I'm gone.

15

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:32 AM Yudi Says:

Baruch Hashem, the judge follows Halacha. IYH one day we all should too...

16

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:33 AM Chasidic Tzioni Says:

Beis din, huh, what's that? The real reason that the two Satmar brothers won't go to beis din is that they actually know all the rabbonim and dayonim who would be candiadtes to sit on that historical beis din. And they know that nione of these alleged unbiased judges are actually unbiased or trustworthy. So they go off to the secular courts where they felt they could get an unbiased trial. Sad commentary isn't it?

17

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:36 AM lamdan Says:

The Rabbis can't get the Rabbis to go before Rabbis.

18

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:38 AM satmar Says:

Why don't VIN/record say that this was on the request of the side from Reb Aaron??? This is a major flop for the zalonem!!!

19

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:38 AM cp Says:

Amazing how a secular judge needs to tell yidden to follow halacha. We should be embarrassed.

20

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:39 AM Meir Says:

So if they go to bais din are they not complying with a secular court order

21

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:40 AM Chaim Says:

How sad a non Jew must teach them Halacha

22

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:43 AM Anonymous Says:

What a shame!!! The judge has to tell us to go to Din Torah!!!

23

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:47 AM Fat Chance! Says:

I wish that beth din the best of luck, if they ever reach a decision, which i strongly doubt, they will have to go into hiding for the rest of their lives or risk death. Ridiculous, is this about money, is it l'shem shomayim or is it about getting closer to the riboinoi shel oilom, dikduk mitzvos and chasidus. Unfortunately in my opinion chasidus has totally lost focus and the admoirim need to make a stand and revert back to what the Besht intended.

24

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:48 AM Student Says:

The funny part is, that secular court has to tell to go to a Bet Din. Only in Satmer people, only in Satmer

25

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:48 AM dayan emes Says:

unfortunatly no bais din can handle this impartialy.they r all corrupt or afraid to take a stand.we are still waiting (indefinatly) for the Bobover psak. these cases are a "bchiya lidoiros"

26

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:52 AM Anonymous Says:

chillul hashem of the day, that a ny court has to tell "heimeshe" to go to bes din.

Mi kiamcha yisroel!

27

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:57 AM formally Says:

thi sis a slap in the face a secular court telling the yiddin go to bias dein

28

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:58 AM Anonymous Says:

B"H now we at least have a chance to get back Rodney

29

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:59 AM hose Says:

Who knows, perhaps this Bes Din will head towards the same "dead end" as the Bes Din whos on the Bobov case.

30

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:00 AM Anonymous Says:

meby now will the aronim go to din torah

31

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:01 AM velvel Says:

how can they solve their quarel if they have no common sense wont listen to anyone i doudt that they will ever solve their differences, even if they come up with a solution history their past behaviour shows they wont abide by it they are like perpetual children who never ever grew up theese satmerers, they love to fight its in their nature a bunch of uncivilized primitives all their torah learning is for naught all wasted

32

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:02 AM yoelyg Says:

B"H, if you go to court you loose

33

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:05 AM formally Says:

Reply to #1  
Jewish Alliance for Youth Says:

Now we will have the battle of which bais din to use. I hear that the conservatives want to go into the Kosher business - they might have a bais din set up at JTS that can solve the Satmar problem without going into any halacha

or go to an Orthodox beis din and solve the problem without honesty and morals.
and just have the highest bidder win

34

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:07 AM wanna be Says:

Reply to #1  
Jewish Alliance for Youth Says:

Now we will have the battle of which bais din to use. I hear that the conservatives want to go into the Kosher business - they might have a bais din set up at JTS that can solve the Satmar problem without going into any halacha

The judge is saying in the rolling to which bes din to go!!

35

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:08 AM Anonymous Says:

The judge ordered that they use a beis din with Yitzchok Chaim Zeltenreich, Yekusiel Zalmaen Graus, and Mordechai Babad, or a different beis din if they can agree. What is this beis din? Is it satmar? I don't know these rabbonim, but it could cut down on years of fighting over which beis din to use

36

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:09 AM formally Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

This judge is such a genius - "tell them to go to a bais din" - amazing. Perhaps all the others should have known this - probably they were too busy counting assets. Chillul Hashem big time.

the Chillul Hashem is not living within and respecting the laws of the laws that you live in

but that is an old story

37

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Finely the court gave a heter to go to beth din to prevent a kidush hashem
B”H the chilun hashem is gevaldik

38

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:17 AM JTSMUSMACH Says:

Reply to #1  
Jewish Alliance for Youth Says:

Now we will have the battle of which bais din to use. I hear that the conservatives want to go into the Kosher business - they might have a bais din set up at JTS that can solve the Satmar problem without going into any halacha

There is a Conservative Bet Din. The head is Rabbi Meyer Rabinowitz- professor of Talmud at JTS.

39

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:18 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

First off, I never see the two agreeing on a Beis Din ever. 2nd, were they to agree, no way will they obey. Waste of time.

Doesn't say very much for the Beis Din system. Obviously, Torah Law does not apply to Fruma Yidden?

40

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:18 AM Anonymous Says:

There is a system in place as to how to pick a beis din, each side picks one and then those two is borer a third. Problem is these chasidim will not accept no for an answer from and beis din, after all their rebe is the holyest of holy he knows better than dayonim...

43

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:31 AM Anonymous Says:

look at the bobov din torah what a shame that they are in din torah for almost 6 years didn't reach any psak I think mordcha dovid and bentzion will leave a tzvoah and the the same the dayonim wil leave a tzavoah for the children that they should keep on the din toirah I think its a big shame I believe that there is many people who don't wanna go to din torah because of that

44

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:32 AM Nachman Says:

Woudn't it be nice to form a Bais Din made up of Chasidish Litvish Few from every Chasidishe Chatzer (Lubavitch Satmar Bobov Belz Skver Vishnitz Lakewood Chaim Berlin Mir Tora Vadaath etc...) That we know are Yiras Shamaim and Sonai Batza and Chachamim Know Halacha. So no big dispute should have to go to Erkoos which is a tremendous chilul Hashem.

45

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:32 AM Halacha Says:

Each party appoints a dayan & the 2 dayanim appoint the 3rd dayan. It is a chilul Hashem to go to a secular court without reshus beth din.

46

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:33 AM Machlokes can be good Says:

Just on a positive not: I am not one to condone Machlokes, but look at the ositive side here. each sect opened new shulsm schools camps yeshivos colonies etc. at least there was a lot of growth. they will make up one day and you'll have all this growth that may not happened . justa thought

47

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:34 AM Boropark Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

Now they will be sitting in Bes Din forever just like in Bobov because the Rabonim don't have the backbone or will to finish these din torahs "Satmar made Chilul Hashem by going to court- Bobov made an even bigger Chilul Hashem by going to Bes Din"

Correction: Satmar made cilul Hashem by going to court, in the Bobov Case The rabonim made a chilul hashem, we all in BP are waitiong to here the psak, but you know what they say here: Der Eibishter zol helfen as di rabonim zolen hoben ariches yomim zie derlaiben der Psak.... Thats a shame 5++ years and no psak A din torah should not take so long, as long as there is no psak, there is Machloikes and Sinah.

Rabbonim all over Make it that a yid should not want to go to court.....
CG
of Boro Park

48

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:41 AM Am Ho'oretz Says:

All of you look up Choshen Mishpat Siman 26.
In addition to the quite explicit halocho there you will also see mareh mekoimois to many other poskim. Not one disagrees.
I commend to your special study the Rabbeinu Bachyi at the begining of Parshas Mishpotim. And that is only one of many.

49

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:42 AM formally Says:

Reply to #21  
Chaim Says:

How sad a non Jew must teach them Halacha

it has nothing to do with halacha is has to do with secular law.

it is there by laws to go to beis din, just like if would said go to arbitration

50

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:45 AM Anonymous Says:

there is a din in shilchon urich choshen mishpot that since you went to cort you shouldn't go with him to din torah and I believe that since the ahronim went to cort the zalys wouldn't go to din torah because the aronim will bring up the whole case of yatev lav and u.t.a. even the zalys can do the same in monroe but that will never finished and since the ahronim went to court they will appeal that case because I do believe that the zalys have a good case since they have won once the bais hachaim only the ahronim fool the zalis by making a false dead and signed by the monroe town. don't forget that this rulling is from a monroe court what the zalis never win there anything because of political reasons but they have on what to hope by appealing it like the case of rosanvaser

51

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

First off, I never see the two agreeing on a Beis Din ever. 2nd, were they to agree, no way will they obey. Waste of time.

There really is only one Beis Din...the Beis Din shel Shamayim. Whichever of the two brothers makes it thorugh the yamim noramim can take this as a siman from the ebeshter that his position was the preferrred option.

52

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:54 AM Anonymous Says:

the beis din will tell them to go back to court.

53

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

This judge is such a genius - "tell them to go to a bais din" - amazing. Perhaps all the others should have known this - probably they were too busy counting assets. Chillul Hashem big time.

The judge is no genius, he is just echoing the corporate bylaws of the entity which require any disputes to be settled by a Beis Din. A very simple interpertaion of the contractual facts. This should never have been brought to Beis HaMishpat since the bylaws were clearly written.

53

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:54 AM think a little Says:

the judge is saying that thngs may remain the way they are now
they are not going to listen to a BD, or this is going to be the Salomonic BD decision

55

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:57 AM Sheigetz arrois!! Says:

And zionism is bad??? This is the biggest form of chillul Hashem. They needed a Non Jew to tell them this? Zionism is nothing compared to this.
Here these people portray themselves as the "real Jews" and they stoop to the lowest levels of chillul Hashem, loshen horah, rechilus, machlokes, mesirah (when I reprimanded someone I know massered a another fellow Jew and got him locked uo, he said "mein rebbe geit oich in court".
Shame on you!

56

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

Finely the court gave a heter to go to beth din to prevent a kidush hashem
B”H the chilun hashem is gevaldik

Your 100 percent right all this money and all the chilul hashem has to end up with nothing what a Shame As I read people write flop for aronim or zalonim who cares nobody want the truth they all want to win now thay lost they’ll say big win for this side or this side stop with the baloneys

57

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:01 AM Anonymous Says:

When big things like this happen, it speaks quite loudly as a direct message from Hashem [through the mouth of the judge in this case]. How much more so 2 days after Tisha B'av. Until we realize that we will need to be united to have Mashiach come, we will likely be stuck here in this Galut. Option 2 always remains, where Chas Veshalom our time runs out and a major tragedy is sent by Hashem to make us come together. As someone recently said, when the bombs are falling, nobody needs yichus to get into the bomb shelter.

To anyone who knows our history, we have been repeating this saga of hatred between groups since before the Bet Hamikdash was destroyed. We brought it upon ourselves - as well as the bitter death that we lamented about just 2 days ago. We had 7 years of food storage in Yerushalayim, but it was burned down to force the dissenting group to enter battle with the Romans. Therefore we read about the people who died of utter starvation due to our own bitter in-fighting.

I hope that we realize this and somehow take even baby steps toward changing - rather than continuing our trend. On the other hand, bitter tragedy ironically brings us back together. I wish we dont need it

58

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:02 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Yudi Says:

Baruch Hashem, the judge follows Halacha. IYH one day we all should too...

The judge did not follow Halacha, he followed the civil law which interperts the bylwas of the orginizational constitution, which states that matters be resolved by a Beis Din. what is do difficult to understand?

59

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:06 AM Supreme court judge says go to beis din Says:

As the Lubavitcher Rebbe once commented, 'Halevai it would be this easy to be poiel on the Ba'alei Bechirah.'

But seriously, this makes a good precedence for future people that try to take their cases to erkaos.

60

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM ny rav shlita Says:

my Rav repeats, that all the tsoros, Rubashkin, Aberman, Japanese drug
Shmendrikes, hungry child etc. etc. are all the עונשfruits of the Manhigim
going to Arkoos. i.e. Didan Natsach, Bobov, Satmar and Ponevez. Imagine
that an African female judge must decide who will receive Shishi or the
עשרת הדיברות

61

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:12 AM Bobover Says:

will it end up like Bobov ? i remmber last year Nov 23rd, 2009 VIN had a article the headlines was this:
"Borough Park, NY – Bobov Dispute Heads Into Final Stage At Din Torah, Not Secular Court"
still waiting for these Final Stages.... will it take same long in satmar?

62

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Just read the ruling, there is NOT going to be a fight who should be the bes din, the judge specificaly directed them to a specific ZABLA bes din, he named 3 rabbis, its the same bes din who is currently adjudicating a similar satmar case in boro park

63

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Why would any beis din want to take on this broigas which is really a personal and political vendetta between two rabbonim with zealous followers who would make life miserable for the members of any beis din who ruled against their faction. They have shown themselves repeatedly as capable of violent and crude behavior against the other side.

64

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:23 AM Anonymous Says:

the bobover din torah is taking longer than rabbi naftultsha ztz"l was rabbi what a joke

65

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:30 AM Tzi Bar David Says:

HAHA, the goy is not telling them to go the the Beis Din, he is telling them to follow the terms of their contract. Either way, it seems like Judge Alfieri is a sharp guy.

66

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:31 AM Anonymous Says:

can someone tell me why the rabonim didn't finished the psak yet by bobov why should the dayonim have a problem to say or bentzion or mordcha dovid is rabbi or both or this bulding belongs to him and this to him can someone tell me why it takes for over 5 years its not normal

67

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Satmar still fighting. This all would have been fixed had their father raised them with some class. It is embarrassing how much time they have spent in front of the beis dins.

68

 Jul 22, 2010 at 11:09 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #66  
Anonymous Says:

can someone tell me why the rabonim didn't finished the psak yet by bobov why should the dayonim have a problem to say or bentzion or mordcha dovid is rabbi or both or this bulding belongs to him and this to him can someone tell me why it takes for over 5 years its not normal

To all thoses Bobov waiters: come on give me a break, what means we are all waiting for a psak, NO one owes you a psak, both sides are sitting and debating, neither side is ready to call for a psak, both sides are entitled to talk as long as they want, (even though that dosent fufill your stupid curosity) the BEIS DIN isn't getting paid by you neither influenced b y all mikvuohs, both sides agreed very quickly on a fair yes I repeat a fair beis din, and are entitled to diliberate as long as needed, you all don't know any facts so stop screaming chilul hashem, its a kiddush hashem 2 sides no fighting punching just arguing before a abitration and will end when they (and no other) feel fit,and yes if they do decide to go on for 20 years they are clearly entotled too as well

69

 Jul 22, 2010 at 12:06 PM An Insider Says:

The Zalis do NOT want to go to Din Torah. They knew that they would lose because of all the sheigatz shtik that they did. There was a heter to go to court.
They have done everything within their power not to go to Din Torah like they are doing in Israel which is the greatest Chillul Hashem ever!

70

 Jul 22, 2010 at 12:08 PM Anonymous Says:

no one shud say any commonts or misser for satmer ... just look back ur heritage n see how many mesires there was between misnagdim n chasidim how mant rabbis were sitting in jail due to mesire of misnagdim ... yhe same was between a lot of chassidic fractions ... so every one shud keep their comments to urself n wash ur own laundry

71

 Jul 22, 2010 at 12:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Anonymous Says:

Doesn't say very much for the Beis Din system. Obviously, Torah Law does not apply to Fruma Yidden?

Don't now: why dosent reb aron take his 3 daunim and reb zalmon take his 3 daunim and let the 6 daunim take the 7th and shulam al yisruel

72

 Jul 22, 2010 at 12:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Beis Din? No!!!!!! You GO to B&H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

73

 Jul 22, 2010 at 12:48 PM chusid Says:

chillel hashem! this is what the gemura says in buba basra "that people we look up too, could be looked down at up in heaven" both these brothers will go to hell!!

74

 Jul 22, 2010 at 12:56 PM Anonymous Says:

I don't undertsand, how were they allowed to go to a secular court in the first place. Isn't that an issur deoraysa?

75

 Jul 22, 2010 at 01:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #68  
Anonymous Says:

To all thoses Bobov waiters: come on give me a break, what means we are all waiting for a psak, NO one owes you a psak, both sides are sitting and debating, neither side is ready to call for a psak, both sides are entitled to talk as long as they want, (even though that dosent fufill your stupid curosity) the BEIS DIN isn't getting paid by you neither influenced b y all mikvuohs, both sides agreed very quickly on a fair yes I repeat a fair beis din, and are entitled to diliberate as long as needed, you all don't know any facts so stop screaming chilul hashem, its a kiddush hashem 2 sides no fighting punching just arguing before a abitration and will end when they (and no other) feel fit,and yes if they do decide to go on for 20 years they are clearly entotled too as well

Maybe if you took your head out of your near sighted klein keppeldik world you would see that the Bobover case dayanim are just making money and couldn't care less about a psak. Nobody really wants a psak in this. Rav Naftultshe ztzl would scream bloody murder over such a machloikis, as would his holy father ztzl. This machloikis is NOT the shitaas Bobov of the Kedushas Zion nor his son nor his einikel. Oh by the way, learn how to spell.

76

 Jul 22, 2010 at 01:04 PM Mediation is the only way. Says:

The only way they will reach a peace agreement is when they have this dispute resolved by a panel of mediators, divide the assets and Shulem al Yisroel.

77

 Jul 22, 2010 at 01:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Not to worry , before this sichsuch is settled they will appear before the Bet Din shel maaloh .

78

 Jul 22, 2010 at 01:26 PM Anonymous Says:

State Supreme Court is NOT the highest court in NY system, these are general trial courts. Court of Appeals is higher than "supreme court" in NY system. Any side can still appeal the judge's decision. A lawyer can bring a good and convicting argument that a NO bes din can take on this case impartially and give a non biased non political, non emotional, non partisan ruling. This Satmar saga has a lot of political weight and money surrounding it, and no bes din can be impartial in a decade long power hunger struggle to control clans and tens of millions of dollars, especially when all of the rabbis on the bes din panels are very closely associated with top Satmar leaders.

79

 Jul 22, 2010 at 01:42 PM maybe this will have a positive outcome Says:

Look what R.Rosenberg was able to accomplish in the crown heights case. According to both sides, he was very fair.

80

 Jul 22, 2010 at 01:43 PM h Says:

Reply to #18  
satmar Says:

Why don't VIN/record say that this was on the request of the side from Reb Aaron??? This is a major flop for the zalonem!!!

dont turn it around !!!

81

 Jul 22, 2010 at 02:06 PM actual Jew Says:

if we were in the times of the Tanach, I could just see this being written into a book to give an example of how low the Jewish people had fallen. the holier-than-thou Satmars being ordered by a gentile judge to go to beis din. ha!

82

 Jul 22, 2010 at 02:22 PM professor Says:

Maybe at least the judge knows halacha.

83

 Jul 22, 2010 at 02:56 PM 5T Resident Says:

The judge was smart - he wanted no part of this dispute. Besides, the truth is it is an internal Satmar dispute that requires Halachic intervention and has no place in a civil court.

84

 Jul 22, 2010 at 02:57 PM avremel silver Says:

They should use the Rov of Bnei Brak Harav Moishe Landau. He is fearless and not corrupt. He was just the Av Bais Din in a Zabla where he heard a big case of a major movement and finished in the alloted time (4 days) and rendered a Psak three days later! WOW

85

 Jul 22, 2010 at 02:59 PM yoeli Says:

the dayanim better put there families under protection after the outcome of the psak or else...

86

 Jul 22, 2010 at 03:22 PM hershel Says:

this is a kidush hashem
until now people go to the goishe court, now the court says "we trust the jewish court"
now the truth is we also need to give some power over to beis din. "if there is no police man, there is no judge (Rashi)"

87

 Jul 22, 2010 at 03:28 PM eitza geber Says:

Smart Judge. He knows he'll never finish with them so he doesn't need the headache

88

 Jul 22, 2010 at 03:41 PM naïve Says:

All of the previous writers are so naïve! They didn’t realize that this judge was elected by the village of Kiryas Joel that’s why he didn’t want to rule. Just wait for the Court of Appeals review their old decision from November 20, 2007

Here is a partial of the old ruling:
2007 NY Slip Op 09069 No. 143
Congregation Yetev Lev D'Satmar of Kiryas Joel, Inc., et al.,
Opinion by Judge Pigott. Chief Judge Kaye and Judges Ciparick,Graffeo, Read and Smith concur.Judge Jones took no part.
Decided November 20, 2007

Supreme Court awarded summary judgment to plaintiffs, upholding the validity of
the transfer executed by Berl Friedman and vacating the declaration. The
Appellate Division reversed, …. The Appellate Division subsequently granted leave and certified the following question to us: "Was the decision and order of this Court dated July 11, 2006 properly made?" We now affirm. We conclude that support in the record exists for the Appellate Division's finding that the transfer was not in the best interests of the Brooklyn Congregation. Thus, plaintiffs were not entitled to retroactive judicial approval of the transfer…

89

 Jul 22, 2010 at 05:41 PM yeapb Says:

Reply to #87  
eitza geber Says:

Smart Judge. He knows he'll never finish with them so he doesn't need the headache

Ha Ha! exactly what I wanted to say!!

90

 Jul 22, 2010 at 06:03 PM Anonymous Says:

If I may make a correction to this headline it should read:
New York- TORAH Orders Satmar Dispute Must Go To Bet Din

91

 Jul 22, 2010 at 08:48 PM neutral sar Says:

Chevrah/guys. Let's take our heads out of the sand. Takeh, we didn't want to go to din torah until now. But now that a goy judge told us to go to din torah, I hope and daven that the satmer leadership will not go to any appeals court, and make a new chilul hashem. What was , was- but let's grow up. Wouldn't we all run to help another satmer from the other side? Come on , let's grow up! Let's go in for a little pshureh. Everyone will give some. After all- why are we yidden?

92

 Jul 22, 2010 at 09:23 PM Unbiased opinion Says:

the only solution is to choose dayunim not nogeia bduvur, so selekt mizrachi tzionishe Rabbunim such as R Dov Lior, R Shlomo Aviner and R Haim Drukman.

93

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Very smart Judge, good way to runway of the case that would cause him a huge headache, with a bunch of dreikups and case that would never end.

94

 Jul 22, 2010 at 10:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
dayan emes Says:

unfortunatly no bais din can handle this impartialy.they r all corrupt or afraid to take a stand.we are still waiting (indefinatly) for the Bobover psak. these cases are a "bchiya lidoiros"

The Dayanim want a case to last for a very long time, because each time they meet - they make $$$. A new BaisDin is TRYING to put a time limit on how long cases can drag and the Dayanim get paid a set fee - so they should NOT have an interest in shlepping it out FOREVER! Let's see if this will work out!

95

 Jul 22, 2010 at 11:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #94  
Anonymous Says:

The Dayanim want a case to last for a very long time, because each time they meet - they make $$$. A new BaisDin is TRYING to put a time limit on how long cases can drag and the Dayanim get paid a set fee - so they should NOT have an interest in shlepping it out FOREVER! Let's see if this will work out!

Hopefully, this new BaisDin makes SO much SENSE! Without a monetary gain - Dayanim will want to FINISH a case and MOVE ON to the NEXT one! How can we get the cases currently in BaisDin to finish up before Moshiach comes???

96

 Jul 22, 2010 at 11:20 PM no peshure Says:

Reply to #91: what don't u understand the aronim incl. Their holy rebbe won't give in on anything they want all the power and money and the hell with Zali, no they asked they judge not to rule the case b/c they were frightend they will lose so they scream B"D all a bunch of crap.

97

 Jul 23, 2010 at 12:09 AM Halacha Says:

Reply to #88  
naïve Says:

All of the previous writers are so naïve! They didn’t realize that this judge was elected by the village of Kiryas Joel that’s why he didn’t want to rule. Just wait for the Court of Appeals review their old decision from November 20, 2007

Here is a partial of the old ruling:
2007 NY Slip Op 09069 No. 143
Congregation Yetev Lev D'Satmar of Kiryas Joel, Inc., et al.,
Opinion by Judge Pigott. Chief Judge Kaye and Judges Ciparick,Graffeo, Read and Smith concur.Judge Jones took no part.
Decided November 20, 2007

Supreme Court awarded summary judgment to plaintiffs, upholding the validity of
the transfer executed by Berl Friedman and vacating the declaration. The
Appellate Division reversed, …. The Appellate Division subsequently granted leave and certified the following question to us: "Was the decision and order of this Court dated July 11, 2006 properly made?" We now affirm. We conclude that support in the record exists for the Appellate Division's finding that the transfer was not in the best interests of the Brooklyn Congregation. Thus, plaintiffs were not entitled to retroactive judicial approval of the transfer…

Great and short to the point! The zalis know all along that they have no chance to win any litigation in Orange County courthouse, because all Judges need Kiryas Joel’s block vote. The zalis are pleased that they can now proceed to the Court of Appeals where 8 out of 9 judges are still on the bench since their 2007 ruling.

And by the way the Reb Aaron was the first to go the secular court system 9 years ago; so Reb Zalmin is not obligated to go to any Din Torah according to the Halacha!

98

 Jul 23, 2010 at 12:15 AM anonymous Says:

Very good now they will know that court is out and will go straight to din torah wich is the right way

99

 Jul 23, 2010 at 12:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Jewish Alliance for Youth Says:

Now we will have the battle of which bais din to use. I hear that the conservatives want to go into the Kosher business - they might have a bais din set up at JTS that can solve the Satmar problem without going into any halacha

Did u listen to rabbi Ahron shur by the rally of rabbaskin how much more wil we suffer even judge sea it it time to step out of court we r not finshing to got bath news Lats got out of court and Hashem will help us . and for Bais din we say please give out the din fast

100

 Jul 23, 2010 at 12:57 AM Anonymous Says:

The few famous Dayanim have a MONOPOLY on the BaisDin system. It's like a Jewish MAFIA!

101

 Jul 23, 2010 at 04:18 AM Also Satmar Says:

Reply to #69  
An Insider Says:

The Zalis do NOT want to go to Din Torah. They knew that they would lose because of all the sheigatz shtik that they did. There was a heter to go to court.
They have done everything within their power not to go to Din Torah like they are doing in Israel which is the greatest Chillul Hashem ever!

Who gave the hetter?
And why have they gone to secular court in Israel. What's wrong with Eidah Chareidis? (rhetocal question!).

102

 Jul 23, 2010 at 04:23 AM Israeli Says:

Reply to #88  
naïve Says:

All of the previous writers are so naïve! They didn’t realize that this judge was elected by the village of Kiryas Joel that’s why he didn’t want to rule. Just wait for the Court of Appeals review their old decision from November 20, 2007

Here is a partial of the old ruling:
2007 NY Slip Op 09069 No. 143
Congregation Yetev Lev D'Satmar of Kiryas Joel, Inc., et al.,
Opinion by Judge Pigott. Chief Judge Kaye and Judges Ciparick,Graffeo, Read and Smith concur.Judge Jones took no part.
Decided November 20, 2007

Supreme Court awarded summary judgment to plaintiffs, upholding the validity of
the transfer executed by Berl Friedman and vacating the declaration. The
Appellate Division reversed, …. The Appellate Division subsequently granted leave and certified the following question to us: "Was the decision and order of this Court dated July 11, 2006 properly made?" We now affirm. We conclude that support in the record exists for the Appellate Division's finding that the transfer was not in the best interests of the Brooklyn Congregation. Thus, plaintiffs were not entitled to retroactive judicial approval of the transfer…

In America judges are elected? Justice decided by the electorate?
No wonder that America is ervas ho'oretz and the m'kor hatumah and most of the world's depravity.

103

 Jul 23, 2010 at 04:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #74  
Anonymous Says:

I don't undertsand, how were they allowed to go to a secular court in the first place. Isn't that an issur deoraysa?

Yes Sir! It is the greatest issur in all 4 chalokim of Shulchan Aruch. Worse than chillul Shabbos or any (or all) of 3 aveiros chamuros.

104

 Jul 24, 2010 at 10:10 PM Anonymous Says:

the tefilos of reb Aaron was mekibel by the levaie he asked his mother to stop sufering 10 years is genig

105

 Jul 26, 2010 at 07:41 PM Insider says Says:

Reply to #101  
Also Satmar Says:

Who gave the hetter?
And why have they gone to secular court in Israel. What's wrong with Eidah Chareidis? (rhetocal question!).

Good question. They know they will never get away with the stuff they have done in the last 10 years so they will NEVER come before a Beis Din, Eida Hachreidis or similar, because of that a number of serious Rabbonim gave a heter to go to secular court and they where so bullied by it. The Gedolim from the Eida Hachreidis have put an enormous amount of pressure on the Zalis and they refuse to go, or they sign papers to get them off their back then withdraw! Massive Chillul Hashem!

106

 Nov 18, 2011 at 01:21 AM harav moshe green Says:

Reply to #92  
Unbiased opinion Says:

the only solution is to choose dayunim not nogeia bduvur, so selekt mizrachi tzionishe Rabbunim such as R Dov Lior, R Shlomo Aviner and R Haim Drukman.

don't say your unbiases.today even a young kid knows everthing around this issue.the news reaches till the biggest goy. so one can't say "take unbiased dayanim"-there 'aint todays days. only hashem knows how such a big bruhaha will reach its finich line.

107

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