Israel – Rabbis When There Is Danger To Life Everyone Must Call Police Even On Shabbat

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    Israel – The recent murder of three children by their father on a Saturday shocked the nation and will certainly not be forgotten. When one sees such inhuman cruelty, and even in less shocking cases, it is clear that action must be taken to prevent such horrors – yet Itay Ben Dror’s religious neighbors were undecided about calling the police and reporting the case.

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    On Thursday, the rabbis of the Tzohar organization issued a clarification emphasizing the halachic aspect which allows, and even compels, the calling of the police on Shabbat.

    The notice issued by the organization read, “Following the terrible act of murder in Netanya and the neighbors’ avoidance of calling the police for fear of desecrating  the Shabbat, we wish to issue this notice to announce that when there is danger to life everyone must contact the police even on Shabbat, and thereby keep the commandment, ‘Thou shalt not stand against the blood of thy neighbour’.”

    The signatories include a long and distinguished list of rabbis, such as Yaacov Ariel, Aharon Lichtenstein, Haim Druckman, Shlomo Aviner, Ram Hacohen, Haim Navon, David Stav, Rafi Feyerstein, Shai Piron and Israel Rozen.

    On Wednesday, Ben Dror was deemed fit to be detained at the Ramla Magistrates’ Court. Family members of the victims Roni, Or and Omer were also present.

    “They’re no longer his children,” said Albert Shem-Tov, the brother of the children’s mother, Lilach. “We came to see him from up close, because I want to see him and make sure he gets the punishment he deserves after what he did to the children and the family.”


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    31 Comments
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    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    13 years ago

    This would never have happened with chareidi neighbors, this is taught to every yeshiva bochur, the moderne’ on the other hand are bigger amei haaretz when it comes to Halacha because they focus more on secular studies.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    13 years ago

    BTW when did this story take place?

    kollelfaker
    kollelfaker
    13 years ago

    really it happens there more often then not i saw a house burn down in lakewood on shabbos after noon and they were argueing if they were allowed to call FD it was called in eventually by a frum neighbor after the houses was destroyed and it was endangering his

    13 years ago

    To #1 , it is a shame that you are such a biggot and am haaretz yourself. This has nothing to do with halacha, it has to do with common sense, if you saw a person hit by a car in the street on Shabbos, would you not call for hatzolah and offer aid to the person to prevent their death Shabbos or Yom Tov? Do chevrah hatzolah not drive on Shabbos & Yom Tov to save Yiddish life. More so in this case to stop a criminal act that took the lives of 3 innocent children and had the potential for harm to others. Perhaps if you also focused a little on secular studies instead of making disparaging remarks about other Yidden you could hasten the arrival of Moshiach and who knows in the meantime even earn a parnassh for yourself and your family.

    Barry521
    Barry521
    13 years ago

    I remember a story several years ago. A fire in an apt building, where everyone ran outside, and no one called the police, or fire dept. Land of Israel. Home of the frum?

    Babishka
    Member
    Babishka
    13 years ago

    YNet is trying to blame this crime on the religious neighbors, they want people to forget that it was this chiloni chaya rah that hacked up his own children.

    Also I have called the police on my neighbors several times, when their dogs ran loose, when they got into crackhead fights, and when their dogs swarmed the old lady next door on the opposite side. Fortunately those crackheads are gone now, but the house is abandoned, I am afraid more crackheads will move in.

    The_Rat
    The_Rat
    13 years ago

      #1

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but Chareidi Jews also have issues with violating Shabbat to save a life. I have heard way too many stories from a pediatrician, who services a particular Chareidi community in the US, about parents who bring their children in with life threatening illnesses on motzoei Shabbat or Yom Tov. When asked about when the symptoms started, the answer could be as early as “just after candle lighting” (ie. as early as the begining of a 3 day Yom Tov). So these children may have been suffering for days and needed treatment, but the parents were not willing to violate Shabbat or Yom Tov to either come into the office (one of the doctors is always on call, and sometimes one will sleep in the office over Yom Tov for just such occasions), call an ambulance, or go to the emergency room.

    There are “pious fools” in all religious strata of Judaism.

    13 years ago

    To number 1, what a slandereous dumb comment you made. The modern would be the first to call the police in such a dangereous situation. It is the charedim with their fanatical and distorted view of Lashan Harah who will find every excuse under the sun to defend child molestors and rapists and accuse anyone of reporting the truth as being worse then the monsters.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    13 years ago

    Reply to #1

    First, this is a tragedy for all of klal yisroel. Secondly, your mindless comments show your sinas chinam against MO and other yidden. The reality is that the chareidim are NOT taught to think or analyze and are more likely to sit by and watch another yid die while they quibble over whether their rav’s holding would allow them to make a call to Hatzolah on shabbos. More charedim die from neglect and ignorance and fear than would ever happen in a MO kehillah but hopefully there will never again be such a tragedy for ANY yidden whatever their derech.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    13 years ago

    Oy Nebech!
    Should hashem heal this big wound for this family, and they should only see simchas from now on.

    13 years ago

    #1 : why speak loshon hara? this brings on such tragedies.

    FavAnony
    FavAnony
    13 years ago

    this is why people disrespect orthodoxy. There is a thing called common sense. You dont need a letter signed by robbonim – just dont be stupid and have common sense. Something is seriously wrong with these people

    FavAnony
    FavAnony
    13 years ago

    #1 : Your right this would never happen with hareidim, because not only would they not call the police but then they would also hide the biheima, help him escape and then riot when he’s finally arrested.

    Hatzolah Member
    Hatzolah Member
    13 years ago

    Without commenting on the horrible story above, I would like to address the commentators here. I cannot begin to tell you how many people have walked blocks on Shabbos and Yom Tov to my home becuase there was a medical emergency at their home. In many cases the situation was Pikuach Nefesh or safek Pikuach Nefesh. In one case a child was almost in respiratory arrest lo aleinu. As well, very often, the minute Shabbos or Yom Tov is over, a call goes out for a medical emergency that began much earlier. The same Torah that says Veshamru…es Hashabos, says Vchai Bahem- velo Sheyamus bahem. If you have a medical emergency or any other life threatening emergency on Shabbos – or if you’re not sure – pick up the phone and call Hatzolah/EMS immediately. Hashoel – Harei Zeh Shofech Dam.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    13 years ago

    and this is precisely why we have a huge problem with molesters the charedi sector. after all its mesira so what if he continue
    to molest i can not be moser. really messed up is all one can say .

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    13 years ago

    Reply to #13

    Most chareidim have been intimidated not to exercise what you call “common sense” and instead are 100 percent literal in what they’ve been told or taught by their rav. My brother-in-law is a pediiatrican in a frum neighborhood and almost every shabbos he has some terrified mother knocking at his door about some emergency with their children that they want guidance about but where their husband discouraged them from calling 911 or taking a cab to the emergency room until motzi shabbos because they didn’t think the problem was as serious as the mother. So instead the mother hikes a mile to sneak over to the doctor’s home to ask for help. This is not “common sense” but literally putting children at risk.

    Anon Ibid Opcit
    Anon Ibid Opcit
    13 years ago

    What murder? There was no murder. The story didn’t report any kosher witnesses let alone their required warning and the acknowledgment by the killer.

    No halachic murder. No harm. No foul.

    Lawyer
    Lawyer
    13 years ago

    1. The posters who wrote that this is a case of “common sense” are simply wrong. It is a matter of halakha. The halakha is that pikuach nefesh, or even safeik pikuach nefesh, is docheh Shabbos. Every educated Jew should be familiar enough with that to apply it to real life situations that come up. Saying it is a matter of “common sense” borders on the heretical — you decide when to keep the Torah or not?

    2. Not every time a child gets hurt or feels bad warrants a trip to the doctor or ER. Al ot of the time a band-aid or some medicine are all that is needed. The rule of thumb is that if it is bad enough to go to the doctor or ER during the week, then you do that also on Shabbos.

    3. The article smacks of anti-religious bias. Who are these neighbors and what did they hear? Did they have any reason to think the father was abusing, let alone murdering, his children? Is there any reason to think that if this horrible incident happened on a weekday they would have called the police?

    It’s easy to criticize with the benefit of hindsight. I am doubtful that at the time the neighbors heard enough to suspect what was happening.

    ExpatriateOwl
    ExpatriateOwl
    13 years ago

    And when the police come, how many haredim will throw stones at them for driving their police cars on Shabbat?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    13 years ago

    Replyto #18

    “No halachic murder. No harm. No foul”

    If you are serious, you probably believe that it is worse to be a moser than report a child molestor to police. If you are joking, its a sick joke and I’m not sure why the moderator would allow such a disgusting comment. Either way, you are one sick yid. Whether or not this was a murder on halacha is totally irrelevant. Maybe if the same tragedy befalls your family you won’t be arguing some arcane point of halacha.

    Lawyer
    Lawyer
    13 years ago

    No. 18 is simply a leitz. Read the story of Shimon ben Shetach (Sanhedrin 37b), and maybe you won’t be such an am haaretz.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    13 years ago

    Number 1 was not talking about the MO in America, they don’t even care about Halacha, it’s all commen sense and what will the goyim think. He was talking about the Israeli ones who are yerei shamyim but not halachicaly educated.

    13 years ago

    Number 16 is right on the money. Now with Charedim becoming Rabbis of more modern Orthodox shuls, they are trying hard to foist this crazy thinking on others.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    13 years ago

    The article reaffims what all knew (or should have known) all along–while shabbos is important and we should try our best to avoid being mechallel shabbos, when in doubt, always contact a doctor if there is any risk to the patient’s health (beyond minimal cuts/abrasions/common colds and those sorts of everyday events). Shabbos is important but health and well being are always more important.

    13 years ago

    Number 26, I have news for you — plenty of the MO in Israel are from the States. You are a big, big fool.

    shredready
    shredready
    13 years ago

    It is not that hard to believe this story. If one cannot go to authorities to stop molesters even if the person is still hangs out in the community.

    Not calling the police on shabbos to save a soul is the logical step

    FavAnony
    FavAnony
    13 years ago

    for those of you criticizing the concept of “common sense” – get some