Kiryas Joel, NY – A large new sign greets visitors as they cross over Route 17 on Forest Avenue and enter a world where the skirts and shirt sleeves are always long, regardless of the season.
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“Welcome to Kiryas Joel,” it reads. “In keeping with our traditions and religious customs, we kindly ask that you dress and behave in a modest way while visiting our community.”
The main congregation in this community of 22,000 Satmar Hasidim recently posted identical notices near two village entrances to ask outsiders to respect their ways while visiting, which includes “covered necklines,” “appropriate language” and “gender separation in all public areas.”
The wording is polite, and there is no threat of enforcement.
But even so, passers-by who have spotted the sign near County Route 105 and Bakertown Road in Monroe have taken umbrage at what they see as an expectation to conform to one group’s religious beliefs and dress codes in a public place.
“I know it’s a request, and it certainly was a polite request,” said James Murphy of Highland Mills. “But it puts me in an uncomfortable position. Why should it bother you what I’m wearing?”
David Ekstein, president of Congregation Yetev Lev, says the signs were meant to guide outsiders so they don’t offend village residents, especially during the summer. No single incident or spate of visitors with objectionable clothing triggered them, he said.
“If our standards of modesty are not what is practiced in the surrounding communities, then it is even more incumbent to provide this polite reminder,” he said.
Modest dress is strictly observed in Hasidic communities. In New York City, where cultures mix more freely than in self-contained Kiryas Joel, some Hasidic men avoid temptation by removing their glasses while in public or turning away from women.
What a kidush hashem!
It’s about time we hear some posotive out of that town
This yukel admits it’s a polite request but he’s still ticked off. Did anyone answer his question, or did the media conveniently ignore that part?
I’m a writer & I’ll be happy to pen an article for the Record so they can actually get their Record straight!
I agree. The people in Monroe built the community for this reason, to get away from the “tumene velt”. Nobody is forcing anyone to go there but if you do choose to live or visit Monroe, one must adhere to their dress code.
there are signs on williamsburg stores too.
By asking people to dress and behave in a modest way whilst visiting their communities, it is being implied that these visitors do not act modestly in their own communites. Non-Jews do not take kindly to any implication however politely put that they lack moral values. It would be better if the sign just asked visitors to note that Satmar religious tradions and custom call forcovered necklines etc and to make no mention as to why religous custom or tradition calls for this.
KJ is for the most part subsidized by public tax dollars, so visiting taxpayers should be able to dress however they wish – they paid for it.
If only people paid attention to the signs in Willi. The situation with the hipsters has become very difficult, even embarrassing.
Why people find this at all offensive is beyond me. In this increasingly immodest world, I think people should understand where we come from and respect our choices — especially since it’s a friendly request, and not in the least bit intimidating.
#3 Says – Just in case you weren’t aware, Monroe is not private property and you can ask but you can’t make anybody dress in any particular fashion.
I’m not sure of the of the legality of the sign but I do understand the reasons that the community wants it there.
There was a similar type of sign posted at the Satmar grocery store in White Lake this summer. I was nearby buying gasoline and wanted to get something at the store when I saw the sign. Since I was dressed in shorts and a tee shirt and out of respect for their modesty I turned around and shopped elsewhere. Again i’m not sure of the legal status of such a notice but there is nothing wrong with showing respect for those who choose to live a different lifestyle than mine and not invade their space dressed as they would consider offensive. Why offend another Jew when it can be avoided.
They can put up whatever signs they want and most people will respect the request on a voluntary basis but it has ZERO legal support since the streets and public areas are NOT private property and you cannot be arrested for trespassing on a KJ sidewalk.
These tznius signs do not work in meah shearim.
These tznius signs do not work in Ramat Beit Shemesh Beis.
The only way to strengthen and encourage tznius is by doing an honest cheshbon haNefesh and improving our own tznius and the tznius of our wives.
I was recently summoned for jury duty, I was amazed that one of the requirement was to dress modestly and refrain from wearing low cut neckline , shorts or barefoot ! The woman who was giving the introduction and general instructions, was dressed very nicely in a business suit and blouse maybe 1 button open on top, She does not come from Monroe or Flatbush, she happened to be a black woman standing in front of an audiance of a few hundred people. This is required for the respect of the Court,
Poster # 13 (Says); Even though you seem to be dancing all over the issue (in several of your posts.). But I’ll just address one issue that you raise. The entire posting in Kiryas Joel, requesting visitors to dress modestly is based on voluntary compliance. Unlike in violence prone Meah Shearim or Beith Shemesh, where there are provocations on both sides of the barricades, the population of KJ is more civilized and are busy with their daily tasks, rather looking for a fight.
II think it’s great but it does not go far enough:
– No defrauding or cheating of Jews or non-Jews.
– Respect one another even if your rabbi is from another sect.
– No murdering of police officers.
– No child abuse or spousal abuse.
– No smuggling of drugs (no need to mention using them).
If you are caught and do go to prison – humble yourself and don’t add to the chillul hashem. Do not demand special privileges or act arrogantly. Do not allow your community to make you into some sort of hero. Keep in mind, once you are in prison your belief system is no longer being tested by G-d. You are being punished for a lack of it.
reply to #3:
I don’t really care why it was established, unless it is a private, gated community, I am offended by their “request” telling me how to dress.
It is about time that yiddellach realize that this country does not belong to them.
If they went to Nostrand or Flatbush Avenues in Brooklyn and were asked to “please” wear Daishikis in keeping with the local customs, let’s how accepting they would be then.
Boro Park and Flatbush residents:
Please do not enter Coney Island Avenue without wearing a Sari, because you might offend the Pakistani and Indian population that lives there.
As long as they don’t try to enforce it or to harass people who don’t share their beliefs I don’t see a problem. The moment they do I have a very big problem with them.
never mind,tzunius,tell them to stop killing each other first.
The same sign has been at the entrance to New Square for 20+ years. So What