“ I think that alot of complaints here are unjustified and some are ....Yeshivos have an obligation to secure the enviroment of the principals its been established for...A chasidishe or litvishe yeshiva does NOT accept children from homes who have Television,Internet or if the parents go to movies or dress immodest. Most yeshivas have a internal vaad hachinuch who oversee that the parents meet their standards.
If anyone chooses a life that is different then their standard why do u want your kids in a yeshiveh that wont accept them.? Why do u enroll them to find out you are NOT welcome.? Most parents dont want those kids in their childs class room..so why complain when the yeshives are doing exactly what you want them to do.?
We live in a FREE world where every one wants to live their life style and they want the yeshivas to go along with it.. ”

“ Oh my! I had goose pimples reading what this Rebbe said !!! Finally someone standing up and telling it like it is. I see these bochurim wandering the streets because they have been rejected by yeshivos and end up in "special" yeshivos where they take in all the "rejects"--these boys feed off each other and nothing good comes from it. The same can be said for the girls schools although I don't think it's quite as bad as it is with the boys. These kids are marked forever and the scars stay with them throughout their lives. They can't make decent shidduchim and many never get married because they don't want to forward the pain to the next generation--I have been told this by more than one boy. My heart aches for them and their parents. Maybe now that Reb Krausz has so openly cried for these kids that something will be done. I challenge all the other Rebbes and principals, teachers, Rabbanim to follow suit. ”

“ I think that alot of complaints here are unjustified and some are ....Yeshivos have an obligation to secure the enviroment of the principals its been established for...A chasidishe or litvishe yeshiva does NOT accept children from homes who have Television,Internet or if the parents go to movies or dress immodest. Most yeshivas have a internal vaad hachinuch who oversee that the parents meet their standards.
If anyone chooses a life that is different then their standard why do u want your kids in a yeshiveh that wont accept them.? Why do u enroll them to find out you are NOT welcome.? Most parents dont want those kids in their childs class room..so why complain when the yeshives are doing exactly what you want them to do.?
We live in a FREE world where every one wants to live their life style and they want the yeshivas to go along with it.. ”

“ I think that alot of complaints here are unjustified and some are ....Yeshivos have an obligation to secure the enviroment of the principals its been established for...A chasidishe or litvishe yeshiva does NOT accept children from homes who have Television,Internet or if the parents go to movies or dress immodest. Most yeshivas have a internal vaad hachinuch who oversee that the parents meet their standards.
If anyone chooses a life that is different then their standard why do u want your kids in a yeshiveh that wont accept them.? Why do u enroll them to find out you are NOT welcome.? Most parents dont want those kids in their childs class room..so why complain when the yeshives are doing exactly what you want them to do.?
We live in a FREE world where every one wants to live their life style and they want the yeshivas to go along with it.. ”

“ There are a lot of BP yeshivas and one (or many) Big Yeshiva(s) in Flatbush that are guilty of this crime! And let's not talk about when you are starting off to enroll your little one, they don't even care to interview the child, they interview the parents as if it was a shidduch and the family's Yichus have to match the yeshiva's expectations. Forget about that innocent 3 year old who is still so innocent and pure, but if they know that you have a sister-in-law's once removed cousin who was divorced because so and so, or that you don't come from the most well-to-do family they will not even give you a chance! ”

“ finally some sanity someone with love in his heart for all gods children not the few special and wealthy children

rabbi the real problem stems from the fact that most yeshivas today are private business and guess what they are not producing a great product by any means especially when they are driving hundreds from our doors never to return ”

“ so in your opinion what should a boy or girl do if they are brought up in a house with a telvision or internet should they just be left on the streets ? and let them rot and become worse ? its not abt who has internet at home ..its abt who keeps it a better secret if they have it or not..and im sure your well aware thats true... ”

“ Rabbi Krauz - ASHRECHA!!!! The problem is that the ones who agree with you are not in control of the yeahiva system. Many yeshivas are privately held. Those yeshivos do not feel that they need to listen to you because it is their money and organazation. the donors are convinced to give the money because f the kavod and status that they will have the community. ”

“ Wow amazing. Over 30 comments on an article and all positive, nobody is saying anything negative about Rabbi Krausz, that maybe he has an agenda. Yes he has an agenda, educating yiddishe kinder al pi darkei Hashem and Torah. The majority of yeshivos today only want to work with the top 10%: top 10% bochur and/or top 10% parents wealth. The rest of klal yisroel is considered to be garbage. What an unbelievable travesty. The headline here was asid litein es hadin. So very true. ”

“ Can somone please explain why all Bucherem have to go to yeshiva? I have a very chusheva zeyda who was a working bucher and was still zoche to be married into a rebbishe family. All his children and grandchildren are frum and ehrlich.

I think the system has failed us becuase we try to force bucherm to be at a place that they dont belong in the first place wasting away time that they could have spent lerning a profession.

The Lubliner gaoin Harav Shapiro dident exept all bucherim in his yeshiva ( Actualy Harav vosner is a well known example of a bucher whom he dident want to take in to his yeshiva.) The Vayaged Yakov Z"L, also rejected many bucherem, I heard this first hand. and the list goes on.

I read in the cssovim from the Brissker Rov , that once you take in a bucher into a yeshiva you are responsible for his well being.( you cant through him out). However I think there are NO yeshives with only Metiyonim, and I firmly beleive that Yeshivas have a right to sort out who you take in. ”

“ Oh please! Bochurim are not thrown out for not understanding a tosfos, usually they are caught acting in a extremely bad manner usually sexually active etc. We just tell parents he can't understand a tosfos... ”

“ so in your opinion what should a boy or girl do if they are brought up in a house with a telvision or internet should they just be left on the streets ? and let them rot and become worse ? its not abt who has internet at home ..its abt who keeps it a better secret if they have it or not..and im sure your well aware thats true... ”

“ I think that alot of complaints here are unjustified and some are ....Yeshivos have an obligation to secure the enviroment of the principals its been established for...A chasidishe or litvishe yeshiva does NOT accept children from homes who have Television,Internet or if the parents go to movies or dress immodest. Most yeshivas have a internal vaad hachinuch who oversee that the parents meet their standards.
If anyone chooses a life that is different then their standard why do u want your kids in a yeshiveh that wont accept them.? Why do u enroll them to find out you are NOT welcome.? Most parents dont want those kids in their childs class room..so why complain when the yeshives are doing exactly what you want them to do.?
We live in a FREE world where every one wants to live their life style and they want the yeshivas to go along with it.. ”

“ i dont see any problem that a yeshivah should requset the parents to through out the TV from home, or their boy is not accepted,

if the parents are cheating THEY are throwing out their child from yeshivah,

What Rabbi Kraus spoke about was that there are normal Boys very ehrlicha buchirim from good homes & are denied access to a yeshivah not metziunym though, & just because they didnt learn in the cheder from this particuler mosad the yeshivah doesnt feel OBLIGATED to take them just for the reason that the buchor will stay without a yeshivah, ”

“ Can somone please explain why all Bucherem have to go to yeshiva? I have a very chusheva zeyda who was a working bucher and was still zoche to be married into a rebbishe family. All his children and grandchildren are frum and ehrlich.

I think the system has failed us becuase we try to force bucherm to be at a place that they dont belong in the first place wasting away time that they could have spent lerning a profession.

The Lubliner gaoin Harav Shapiro dident exept all bucherim in his yeshiva ( Actualy Harav vosner is a well known example of a bucher whom he dident want to take in to his yeshiva.) The Vayaged Yakov Z"L, also rejected many bucherem, I heard this first hand. and the list goes on.

I read in the cssovim from the Brissker Rov , that once you take in a bucher into a yeshiva you are responsible for his well being.( you cant through him out). However I think there are NO yeshives with only Metiyonim, and I firmly beleive that Yeshivas have a right to sort out who you take in. ”

“ SO Let's have special kids and bums and stupid kids and mitzuyanim all in the same class!!!! So we won't have any leaders for future generations!!!!! Its the parents fault who need to see what type of kids they have and not think that their kids need to be in the "best" schools!!!! Roshey yeshivas are not responsible for all of peoples drek and problems!! Yeshivas are not a public school!!! This is a complicated topic! Wonder what ticked thos rabbi off? ”

“ SO Let's have special kids and bums and stupid kids and mitzuyanim all in the same class!!!! So we won't have any leaders for future generations!!!!! Its the parents fault who need to see what type of kids they have and not think that their kids need to be in the "best" schools!!!! Roshey yeshivas are not responsible for all of peoples drek and problems!! Yeshivas are not a public school!!! This is a complicated topic! Wonder what ticked thos rabbi off? ”

“ The problem that Rabbi Krausz addressed is not new, nor did it originate here in America. It is inherent in the Lithuanian yeshiva model as developed over the past 200 years. The stated purpose and aim of the great Lithuanian yeshivos was to produce gedolim and they did. Anyone who, by temperment or intellect, was deemed to be not godol material was rejected. This system worked fairly well for R' Chaim and his immediate successors when the total enrollment of his and other contemporary yeshivos comprised perhaps 1 or 2% of the Jewish population. Those bachurim that were accepted were really "mitzuyanim".

When, in the mid to late 19th Century of the Common Era, improvements in transportation, communication and the general standard of living were being made at a great rate, more and more Jews had the ability and desire to attend the great yeshivos. The aim of producing gedolim never changed and an increasing number of otherwise earnest students were turned away. This concentration of producing gedolim to the exclusion of simply providing advanced Jewish education to those who desired it was one of the reasons that the Haskalah was so effective in Lite. ”

“ SO Let's have special kids and bums and stupid kids and mitzuyanim all in the same class!!!! So we won't have any leaders for future generations!!!!! Its the parents fault who need to see what type of kids they have and not think that their kids need to be in the "best" schools!!!! Roshey yeshivas are not responsible for all of peoples drek and problems!! Yeshivas are not a public school!!! This is a complicated topic! Wonder what ticked thos rabbi off? ”

“ I find it particularly disgusting the Brisker Yeshivos chinuch is that every talmid must strive to be “A Godol" which is inherently an impossibility to ever happen for 99.99% of all Talmidim, yet every Talmid lives this lie and myth. This they call "Chinuch"?

Obviously as soon as a Talmid realizes that he doesn't have the wits to be a so called "Godol", he gives up on Yiddishkiet because he is made to feel that nothing else is worthwhile in Yeshiva and so he is Mechunach basically that unless he is "a Godol" he is a "a nothing".

Any wonder so many Yeshiva dropouts, drop out not only "out of school" but "drop out of Yiddishkeit"?

In Chassidishe yeshivos the chinuch is 100% the opposite of that of Brisker Yeshivos.

In a Chassidish Yeshiva, every talmid knows that the above definition of "a nothing" or a so called "godol" is really having it backwards because anyone who really thinks he is a "a nothing" is a true Anav" which is in truth the highest level a Yid can reach and anyone who mistakenly imagines himself to becoming a so called "godol" (obviously 99.99 can't be that) are actually nothing more than Baaley Gaavoh where their goal in life is ONLY to "feel big". ”

“ ONE important point is Parents; Parents don't cry if your child does not get into the best yeshiva or seminaries if you yourselves don't act properly. Women look at your level of tznius. are your clothes tights, short, a little too too modern; Men do you learn everyday, do you daven with a minyan, are you talking in shul during davening, is your television hidding good enough in your home, are you straight in buisness and are you know for the shtick that you are pulling. ”

“ There is another problem.

Hoe do yeshivas charge $8,000 per student for a class of 25, and yet only pay a teacher $15,000 a year and an assistant $10,000 a year.

I have never quite understood this. Perhaps someone can explain it to me. ”

“ SO Let's have special kids and bums and stupid kids and mitzuyanim all in the same class!!!! So we won't have any leaders for future generations!!!!! Its the parents fault who need to see what type of kids they have and not think that their kids need to be in the "best" schools!!!! Roshey yeshivas are not responsible for all of peoples drek and problems!! Yeshivas are not a public school!!! This is a complicated topic! Wonder what ticked thos rabbi off? ”

“ 45 please stop playing dumb everybody knows that a buchir who is not the sharpest in learning can be the best buchir he will be rejected in almost every yeshiva so the only option for father is to put in the buchir i a yeshiva with risk of finding friends that are no good and sacrifice his son because he was born not to have the best head what a shame and yes I had a friend once called me he wants to come over to me of money with a Rosh yeshiva from a Monsey yeshiva that is about to close in my time he was only accepting the top of the top and he did not accept me I told my friend to ask him if he accepts money from prior buhrim that where not metzinim of course not only did I not give money but let him hear my opinion that those roshe yeshiva deserve less then less and should be yelled and constantly remind them who knows how many yidden that are not yidden that he has on his shoulder but what do they care as long as they make money ”

“ This Rabbi is 100% correct.
I will add that if every parent would do the homework every day with their child it would do wonders and your child would grow up a metzuyon.
In my humble opinion better to learn with your Child Alef Bais, Chumosh, Mishnayot and Talmud in Shul then to attend a Daf Yomy Shiur. First of all (umitalmidai yoser mikulom) so the parent would benefit you will understand the chumas and Rashi or Mishnayot or gemoro alot more then listening to the Daf Yomi. Second future generations are dependent that your child grows up a confident child knows the material in class. Beleive me the nachas from a succssesfull child outweighs all material narishkeiten. ”

“ Although at first this Rov sounds so perfectly on the mark, in reality it's not so simple! If you look at the letters in the back of the third volume of the Michtav Mei'eliyahu you can see this inside. He explains that the difference bet. the way of R S R Hirsch ZTL and the others was exactly on this point. RSR'H was of the opinion that better to make all of Klal Yisroel frum then to make a few Gedolei Yisroel while the others disagreed on this point. Look there to see this AMAZING letter! ”

“ You make a very strong point and its very true what you write..BUT....and i say but...
I have seen some of those boys where their father walks in to shul when the shliach tzibir is up to Nakdishoch and when leining begings they walk out for a shnaps and herring...They dont return till after missef and the kids see all their hisnahagos..I dont know how the lead their life at home but i am sure not much better...what do u expect from those kids..? who is to blame..? The Rebbe,Principal.Yeshiveh or the Parent.?
Its just ming boggling when you daven and watch all those men with the blakberrys conducting their shtissem (some business) and the kids watch this....So next time when you see those kids please check out who the parent is.? ”

“ What? All yeshivas always gave a faher to see if the Bochur is eligible, so do every collage lehavdil. This guy is crazy. Why should every mosod be the same? Don’t make sense. It’s not public school! ”

“ the boy or girl should go home and take the television or video or computer an throw it ou from the window and then they will be eccepted all ove for there kidush hashem ”

“ ONE important point is Parents; Parents don't cry if your child does not get into the best yeshiva or seminaries if you yourselves don't act properly. Women look at your level of tznius. are your clothes tights, short, a little too too modern; Men do you learn everyday, do you daven with a minyan, are you talking in shul during davening, is your television hidding good enough in your home, are you straight in buisness and are you know for the shtick that you are pulling. ”

“ I think many people are missing at least one point here: in Brooklyn there are plenty of yeshivos, so if one cannot get into one, parents can try others. If the child is kicked out because of behavioral problems, schools have an obligation to parents to foster the optimum atmosphere for learning,. We pay plenty in tuition and if the learning process is disrupted by one student, everyone loses. Bear in mind that parents can be obnoxious about muscling there way into a school because they set their hearts on their kids attending a certain school, regardless if it's a good fit. I do not deny there is a problem, but the outrage should be tempered with some real concerns. ”

“ Which teacher do you know that only gets paid that small amount? Is this something you heard or you know personally. ”

“ anybody have the address to send a donation to this rabbi? ”

“ SO Let's have special kids and bums and stupid kids and mitzuyanim all in the same class!!!! So we won't have any leaders for future generations!!!!! Its the parents fault who need to see what type of kids they have and not think that their kids need to be in the "best" schools!!!! Roshey yeshivas are not responsible for all of peoples drek and problems!! Yeshivas are not a public school!!! This is a complicated topic! Wonder what ticked thos rabbi off? ”

“ Oh please! Bochurim are not thrown out for not understanding a tosfos, usually they are caught acting in a extremely bad manner usually sexually active etc. We just tell parents he can't understand a tosfos... ”

“ people start waking up in here !!! they dont care about our kids these days they only care when they will be honored again at the next dinner or melava malke these people on the 'vaad' are controling everything including the lives of our kids future , we should put out a list of all these horrible people in public and hang out their dirty laundry on the street and we will see how much they like it. what a shame that we live with these people in one city. ”

“ I think many people are missing at least one point here: in Brooklyn there are plenty of yeshivos, so if one cannot get into one, parents can try others. If the child is kicked out because of behavioral problems, schools have an obligation to parents to foster the optimum atmosphere for learning,. We pay plenty in tuition and if the learning process is disrupted by one student, everyone loses. Bear in mind that parents can be obnoxious about muscling there way into a school because they set their hearts on their kids attending a certain school, regardless if it's a good fit. I do not deny there is a problem, but the outrage should be tempered with some real concerns. ”

“ Cont'd
The Hungarian and Oberlander yeshivos are a better model for America. Jews in the Austro-Hungarian Empire had, in general, had a higher standard of living than thoss in the Russian Empire of which Lite was a part. More bachurim were able to continue their Jewish educations and enroll in yeshivos like the Chasam Sofer's great yeshiva in Pressburg (now Bratislava). That yeshiva and others in the Austro-Hungarian Empire purpose and aim was to produce Balabatim who were b'nei Torah. No one was turned away because they "didn't measure up". ”

“ At least tell us which Yeshiva YOU went to so our children can avoid it if they want to speak understandable English. ”

“ I was thrown out of two yeshivos for not knowing tosafos. you dont know what youre talking about. and there were lots of other guys tyhrown out with me. one yeshiva even sent certified letters announcing our new oisvorf status to our parents. you talk from your zatz mich moichel.b i never did anything wrong in yeshiva. btw both yeshivas went south FAST after they decided to clean up house and get rid of the good, average non-metzuyon boys. you moitzi-laaz shtick drek. ”

“ I have been following your hashkofos, your problem is much more than not understanding a tosfos... ”

“ I have been reading all the complaints. I have, however, not read one solution as to how to deal with the problem.
Do you want every yeshivah to accept the first thirty applicants? Do you open one big Yeshivah for all the thousands of Bucherim?
Dont you think that the yeshivah has a right to deny your application for the very same reason that you are looking to deny and leave the yeshivah that you are in now? And if you aged out your yeshivah and must move on then refer to my first questions.
My point is....lets not sit and complain, Lets come up with solutions to the problem.
I will propose one solution (I am not familiar with opening a web or blog site). Let someone open a site where all the yeshivahs are listed and what type of bucherim learn in that place. Also to add the good and bad mashgichim and magid shiurim, who accepts and denies buchirim for syupid reasons then contraticd themselves when other Buchirim are accepted....ETC.....
ANY OTHER IDEAS???????????????????????????? ”

“ Cont'd 2

The result is plain to see here in America. The earlier immigrants from the Russian Empire, by and large, left their observance and assimilated. Frumkeit in America today is mostly due to the Hungarian and other chassidic refugees who maintained the tradition that one could be a balabus and a ben Torah at the same time.

Most of the destination yeshivos in America today, however were built on and still maintain the Lithuanian model. OK, we need a Lakewood, a Mir, a Ner Yisroel and the like, but every yeshiva high school in the New York metropolitan area doesn't have to be Lakewood nor should it be. We need to change to the Hungarian model. Learn sugyas instead of learning through sha'as. Leave that to the true proto-gedolim. Every Jewish boy and girl should be entitled to learn and shteig according to their own intellect and inclanation. Right on, Rabbi Krausz, ”

“ I think that alot of complaints here are unjustified and some are ....Yeshivos have an obligation to secure the enviroment of the principals its been established for...A chasidishe or litvishe yeshiva does NOT accept children from homes who have Television,Internet or if the parents go to movies or dress immodest. Most yeshivas have a internal vaad hachinuch who oversee that the parents meet their standards.
If anyone chooses a life that is different then their standard why do u want your kids in a yeshiveh that wont accept them.? Why do u enroll them to find out you are NOT welcome.? Most parents dont want those kids in their childs class room..so why complain when the yeshives are doing exactly what you want them to do.?
We live in a FREE world where every one wants to live their life style and they want the yeshivas to go along with it.. ”

“ so in your opinion what should a boy or girl do if they are brought up in a house with a telvision or internet should they just be left on the streets ? and let them rot and become worse ? its not abt who has internet at home ..its abt who keeps it a better secret if they have it or not..and im sure your well aware thats true... ”

“ I have been reading all the complaints. I have, however, not read one solution as to how to deal with the problem.
Do you want every yeshivah to accept the first thirty applicants? Do you open one big Yeshivah for all the thousands of Bucherim?
Dont you think that the yeshivah has a right to deny your application for the very same reason that you are looking to deny and leave the yeshivah that you are in now? And if you aged out your yeshivah and must move on then refer to my first questions.
My point is....lets not sit and complain, Lets come up with solutions to the problem.
I will propose one solution (I am not familiar with opening a web or blog site). Let someone open a site where all the yeshivahs are listed and what type of bucherim learn in that place. Also to add the good and bad mashgichim and magid shiurim, who accepts and denies buchirim for syupid reasons then contraticd themselves when other Buchirim are accepted....ETC.....
ANY OTHER IDEAS???????????????????????????? ”

“ It is obvious , this is an important and critical issue , a hot topic that resonates with most people. The question is how do we now actually DO something to solve this issue . Can anyone help in getting this to the forefront of their own yeshiva ?? Is there anyone of the askanim that can involved in initiating the program of "No yeshiva opening unless every Yiddish child is placed" . Let this forum be the beginning of the end for all the endless tears and anguish these poor neshomos are going thru. Please someone take the initiative to this . Let's do something constructive with all our venting . It is clear this issue needs to be addressed, In a serious and responsible manner by ALL OUR YESHIVA LEADERS !!!!! Anyone with any ideas please post ”

“ I wasn't a bum or a bad boy. I was just not the best boy in yeshive, when I say not the best, I mean I didn't know how to learn I didn't have the best head. "I was thrown out from yeshive every zman" How much heartaches this has coasted for my parents you can't imagine. My parents were crying, I was crying, the whole family was crying. Our home was tisha bov every beginning of the zman. I was ashamed, and my whole family was ashamed, everybody knew all my uncles knew bottom line it was very painful. Thanks to those reshoim I can't learn even 1 word. I can honestly say that I'm an Am Hurets with all mefurshim. Yes I'm a chasdishe guy with a beard and peyos and I can't learn one single word and it eats me up inside. Fast forward a nice few years. I got married B"H I have a nice family K"H and guess what, There doing the same to my zise kinderlech. Mind you I have no internet at home, no DVD at home, no TV at home my kids go to sleep with rabbi weiss tapes but there still thrown out from the cheider Can't tell you why because you might know who this is but trust me when you will hear why you will fall off the chair laughing (Or crying) ”

“ I'll offer an alternative view to Rav Kraus' passionate argument that all yeshivot have an obligation to be "open access" and accomodate boys and girls of all levels of learning ability. This egalitarian view of how schools should operate is ruining the public school system and will do the same to the great yeshivos and beis yaakov schools that screen their students for both intellectual skills and demonstrated interest in lamdus. Yeshivos are privately owned and operated and should have discretion to decide whether they want to accomodate low-achievers who ae probably better off in a yiddeshe vocational school where they can get a basic education in torah and halacha but learn a parnassah. Full time yeshiva learning should be limited to the a small percentage of bochurim who can excel in lamdus. The rest should learn that they can excel as carpenters, plumbers, computer programmers or whaever vocation they show an affinity for. ”

“ OK guys, let's be real for a moment.
I work with parents and their troubled teens. I actually operate a unique "setting within a setting" in a prominent Brooklyn yeshiva, geared and customized to build and satisfy them b'ruchnius u'bgashmius.
Do you have any idea how many bochurim and parents fight bitterly to keep their children OUT of this one-hour-a-day setting? Many, if not most.
Second point: Most bochurim who are fairly acquainted with gemura, expect to fill their time in a worthwhile fashion. Dumping them together with bochurim who - for whatever reason - do not share this goal, is creating a recipe for disaster. No bochur will waste his time klutzing, an uninterested bochur will find what to-do with his time, and they will ultimately disturb the whole yeshiva. if they and their parents would except a more easier study setting within the yeshiva, life would be much easier for everyone. ”

“ Does anyone know the name of Rabbi Krausz's yeshivah to be able to support it? ”

“ I think that alot of complaints here are unjustified and some are ....Yeshivos have an obligation to secure the enviroment of the principals its been established for...A chasidishe or litvishe yeshiva does NOT accept children from homes who have Television,Internet or if the parents go to movies or dress immodest. Most yeshivas have a internal vaad hachinuch who oversee that the parents meet their standards.
If anyone chooses a life that is different then their standard why do u want your kids in a yeshiveh that wont accept them.? Why do u enroll them to find out you are NOT welcome.? Most parents dont want those kids in their childs class room..so why complain when the yeshives are doing exactly what you want them to do.?
We live in a FREE world where every one wants to live their life style and they want the yeshivas to go along with it.. ”

“ well said...i am asking all the writers here the very same ? what are you doing to help with this problem ? its very easy to sit in your office and write your non sense. do you know there are askunim in yeshivas breaking their heads and not sleeping at nights while dealing with this problem ??
would you send your child in a place where every one is welcome...answer honestly ?
my point is chas vashelm not to support the evil of refusing bucherim into yeshivas i am just saying that this is a problem one can not imagine, at one side a yeshiva has 20 bucherim who are serious in learning, and 5 others who can damage them all.

we as bal habatim with the money :) and so on should do and do and do. we should try to open yeshives for its kind.... there are magid shurim waiting for jobs in kollel. we must act and start building. not sit and complain... ”

“ are there any litvishe roshay yeshiva who say that too? ”

“ Kudos to R' Kraus!!!!
Very well said!
Finally this dark issue is coming to light!!!!
Let the truth be told of all those discreet conartists!!!!!
I wonder if all tziyunim are what they are believed to be?????
Or what do they do @ times when not supervised nor learning????
I believe more in a goal oriented straight boy who's not fooling around or playing his magid shiur's mind!!!!!!
I've been down this road Twice!!!!
B"H my kids ended up in the most prominent yeshiva and school at the end of the day!!!
A message to all broken hearted parents, girls and boys there's always light at the end of this dark tunnel......don't give up!!!!!
The best is still to come.......hold on a little bit longer!!!!!!
Was a broken hearted mother......Thanking Hashem for all the good he bestows upon us every moment!!!!!! ”

“ I'm almost sure I know who u r & the reason y they throw ur kids out (I'm not just saying so I really think I know u) if I'm right & I know who u r should u know that I really had Rachmunes on u when I heard ur story & the reason y they threw ur kids out... But I'm really happy to hear that now hey r starting to accept ur kids back slowly...
Stay strong Hashem is with you, he won't let you fall!!!
You will still see lots of Yiddish Nachas from ur Children, Grandchildren and so on!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ”

“ To #157 I feel for you. But you have one thing to give your children these so-called Roshei Yeshiva can never give theirs: character, ehrlichkeit, menschlechkeit & true Chassidishkeit/Frumkeit.

Your children should be proud of such a devoted father. So you can't learn? And so? Look at the biggest scammers & ganavim who can give Divrei Torah. Feh! It doesn't mean a thing in the end.

People forget...after 120 everyone is buried the same way. So if you're a big Rosh Yeshiva you'll end up in the exact same quality tachrichim & box as the kids you destroyed. Remember that! ”

“ I have been reading all the complaints. I have, however, not read one solution as to how to deal with the problem.
Do you want every yeshivah to accept the first thirty applicants? Do you open one big Yeshivah for all the thousands of Bucherim?
Dont you think that the yeshivah has a right to deny your application for the very same reason that you are looking to deny and leave the yeshivah that you are in now? And if you aged out your yeshivah and must move on then refer to my first questions.
My point is....lets not sit and complain, Lets come up with solutions to the problem.
I will propose one solution (I am not familiar with opening a web or blog site). Let someone open a site where all the yeshivahs are listed and what type of bucherim learn in that place. Also to add the good and bad mashgichim and magid shiurim, who accepts and denies buchirim for syupid reasons then contraticd themselves when other Buchirim are accepted....ETC.....
ANY OTHER IDEAS???????????????????????????? ”

“ First of all, "Proffesor," you may want to check the spelling of that word. Secondly, the main point escapes you. No one is advocating that every yeshiva accept every child. The major focus of the speech, and the problem, is that children who are already in a yeshiva or school should not be ousted because they fail to meet academic standards. Nor should that be the criteria for refusing to admit a student.

And of course, the bottom line is: You throw out garbage, not children. Even if a child does not conform to the religious standards of a yeshiva or school, that child and his/her parents should be helped to find more suitable placement. Under no circumstances should a child be "thrown out."

The solution is love and caring. If every child is considered a diamond, each one must be lovingly cared for and placed in a suitable environment. Parents should also consider the detrimental effects of sending mixed messages when choosing a school. A yeshiva and school have an obligation to all students. If a child is rebeling and exerting a negative influence, that child needs appropriate intervention to protect others. However, an inability to learn is never an excuse. ”

“ Reply to #193

I'm not sure where you are looking but there are literally dozens of young kollel yongermen and rabbonim in BP and will who will likely equal or exceed the lamdus of Rav Moshe, Z'tl in our lifetime so please don't show your limited knowledge of the exciting developments in the heimeshe neighorohoods. Its possible there might also be some great scholars in Monsey or at BMG in Lakewood but at least we know whats in our own backyard. ”

“ Reply to # 188,189:
Any bochur who chooses to spend his day in a full time yeshiva setting, but shows no interest - for whatever reason - for scholastic achievement, is setting HIMSELF up to be stigmatized by his peers and by the faculty. If this bochur would let himself be helped (actually this program is only 55 minutes a day - not in a classroom setting), he would have gained back his confidence to succeed, and in no time would regain the respect from his peers. That's what this highly successful program is designed to do, and the results every year are flying through the roof.
Stigma? A stigma is sitting in a classroom with nothing to do but write on the table. A stigma is getting back 30% on a good weeks test. A stigma is smuggling out of yeshiva to buy/smoke cigarettes.
A stigma is to rot away for fear of being stigmatized.
This is a fact: not all bochurim are cut to learn a full day. That's perfectly fine. The argument around here is that these bochurim should be accepted into full-time-learning yeshivos. Great. But just one question: Should these bochurim be required to go along with the curriculum, or should they be given special vocational training? According to your argument that these bochurim should not be stigmatized, how do you suggest that these bochurim fill up a productive day? ”

“ There have been many comments posted laying the blame on parents because there's TV and/or Internet in the house, or the fathers are setting poor examples in the home. Hoever, Kol Hakavod to Rabbi Krauss for bring to light the role that yeshivos play in the at risk problem we have in our community. Parents should be vigilent and question all "well intentioned" recommendations made by yeshivos. Unfortunately, most yeshivos only recommned what is good for them and not what is good for their students. Parents listen to your children, love them, and be on their side no matter what!!!
NEXT UP: VIN should do an expose on the garbage spec ed programs that are churning out spec ed therapist such as SEIT providers...etc. These people are not capable of making recommendations for children which will impact a child for life. These accelerated programs were made to given kollel wives a means of parnossah but are harmful to the children they work with. ”

“ i think u did to me the same 2 years ago when u accepted my son and the hoshana rabbah u called me that u dont want no excuse after all the money i gave u FROM A BROKEN HEART O OF AFATHER ”

“ Oh please! Bochurim are not thrown out for not understanding a tosfos, usually they are caught acting in a extremely bad manner usually sexually active etc. We just tell parents he can't understand a tosfos... ”

“ Oh please! Bochurim are not thrown out for not understanding a tosfos, usually they are caught acting in a extremely bad manner usually sexually active etc. We just tell parents he can't understand a tosfos... ”

“ Reply to #215
Albeit off topic, since you seem to think of yourself as an intelligent guy, check out the 2nd definition of "stigma", in the Miriam - Webster dictionary:
B) : A mark of shame or discredit.
Please do not answer, it's off topic.

The topic is, why all bochurim want to be accepted into full-day curriculum yeshivas, but are unwilling to either 1) behave and stay out off trouble; 2) accept help where provided. ”

“ Reply to #215
Albeit off topic, since you seem to think of yourself as an intelligent guy, check out the 2nd definition of "stigma", in the Miriam - Webster dictionary:
B) : A mark of shame or discredit.
Please do not answer, it's off topic.

The topic is, why all bochurim want to be accepted into full-day curriculum yeshivas, but are unwilling to either 1) behave and stay out off trouble; 2) accept help where provided. ”

“ For those who asked for his name and address please don't forget from this rosh yeshivah when you log off, please try to send in some money too, I'm not his fund-raiser, I'm just a talmid of this yeshivah and all I can tell you is that this rosh yeshivah is one of a kind... He's really doing a good job and can use some support since he's not taking any governmental programs and I'm sure that in zchus of supporting such a yeshiveh you'll be zoche to see naches of your kids gezinterhiet..
Thank you! ”

“ I think that for a cause like this he should consider taking money from the goverment satmer or not. its pikuach nefesh. ”

“ My son was accepted and the mnohel told him to go home , you know how it feels I will tell you, ready to cry. It feels you just got shot in your herth , no one can stop the bleeding , and is problem was I find out is frands father called and said let's get read of him and the sand him home , bh I placed him somewhere but he will be damaged for life , the feeling a kid and a family have when this happen no one should experience it , rabbi krousz you are the first rabbi and mantech for speaking up. Yes we should all support him al the way , it sounds like the ship was send back to europe from usa with all the yiden. Looking from the ship but no one can help yes all rabbis u think we can trust u. U just cash in the scer limed and laughing away to the bank wake up this are real kids. Kol tiv ”

“ there is another MAJOR PROBLEM in that many young couples cant afford incredibly high TUITION BILLS and thus minimize having children .WE are doing tremendous harm to our future. ”

“ Can somone please explain why all Bucherem have to go to yeshiva? I have a very chusheva zeyda who was a working bucher and was still zoche to be married into a rebbishe family. All his children and grandchildren are frum and ehrlich.

I think the system has failed us becuase we try to force bucherm to be at a place that they dont belong in the first place wasting away time that they could have spent lerning a profession.

The Lubliner gaoin Harav Shapiro dident exept all bucherim in his yeshiva ( Actualy Harav vosner is a well known example of a bucher whom he dident want to take in to his yeshiva.) The Vayaged Yakov Z"L, also rejected many bucherem, I heard this first hand. and the list goes on.

I read in the cssovim from the Brissker Rov , that once you take in a bucher into a yeshiva you are responsible for his well being.( you cant through him out). However I think there are NO yeshives with only Metiyonim, and I firmly beleive that Yeshivas have a right to sort out who you take in. ”

“ This topic is near & dear to my heart. In response to requests I submitted a post revealing names of Yeshivas that were culprits but my post was not printed. My son went thru a tough time in high school. He was accepted with with open arms, to 9th grade, into a yeshivah in Monsey. He was then uninvited in May, with out any provocation. We cried to have him reinstated but the menahel said try elsewhere. Elsewhere wasn't interested bc of the rejection in the previous Yeshivah. After much aggravation, pleading & heartache they agreed to accept him on trial. He was a star learner. The following year he was caught with his cell phone in school & was asked to leave. First offense. The crime of the century. We had to send him to YU which wd not have been considered otherwise. Our son went thru so much unnecessary rejection. It will be a miracle & to his own credit if he comes out of school with out scars. The menahalim involved, whose names I am ready to divulge, have a lot of explaining to do. Who will call them to task? We are turning a blind eye to this problem. Are we just writing here to get things off our minds? Or are we going to do something about this problem? ”

“ Well very easily said then done!
The people posting theses comments are responsible for this crises

I am actually an askun who spent hundreds of hours dealing with this problem this prezman.

Yeshives are strugling, strugling with money, strugling with dealing with todays dur. Bucherim are very spoiled these days and as much as we try to help they laugh at the rabbis face.

If the yeshivas are limited with money and staff they are still trying to deal with the weak kids, still a yeshiva is NOT a nursing home there are boys who wana learn and staff members who wana exchange there torah with boys who will listen. Dealing with boys who are disturbing the class is a problem that effects the boys of the class the name of the yeshiva, and ruins the machanchims life. If its that easy why do you, yes you reading this post do something about it ? Would u take some time to care and learn privately with these bucherim ?? Would u donate to yeshivas so they can hire bigger staff and private teachers so they can handle another 20 weaker bucherim each zman ??
All I am saying is place your self in the yeshivas position. They are well aware of this problem and still are struggling with a solid solution, I my self learn every day with a bucher that I placed in a yeshiva and promised it will be my responsibility to help him succeed,

And I can tell you one thing: I did not know it takes so MUCH koches... ”

“ I am in education as well and I see your point - but even those in chinuch have kids who are harder to handle - but there are times when these boys are kicked out for not "fitting in the box" at the right time or not in the box of the Yeshiva. HaShem accepts us all for who we are and I understand the frustration. But Rabbi Kraus is right in what he says. Not all boys or girls are going to learn at the same rate as others. MOST kids do not. Its a painful experience for the child and i believe it harms a child for a while. If there is a supportive family and parents who help the child then that is a step up, but still there is damage done. If there isn't a supportive family or parents then who knows what will be. if Yeshivas are going to accept these boys they better do their investigation just like one would a shidduch before accepting the boy. Many yeshivas are looking out for the "look" of the school and the money that can be attained. I'm sorry to say..... ”

“ "WE JUST TELL THE PARENTS HE CAN'T UNDERSTAND A TOSFOS..."
What are you accomplishing with that?!?! Either what u are blaming him for is not true... And if, leider, it is true, why don't you tell the parents so that the problem can be solved?!?!?!?!?!
That just shows that you don't mean the boys good, JUST YOUR OWN!!!!!!!!!! ”

“ “Oh please! Bochurim are not thrown out for not understanding a tosfos, usually they are caught acting in a extremely bad manner usually sexually active etc. We just tell parents he can't understand a tosfos... ” do you know what you are talking about? How can you generalize like that? How dare you assume that these boys or girls "are caught acting in a extremely bad manner usually sexually active etc" ? You are living in a closed box world - that is not the case. Talmidim are tossed out just because they can't keep up at the pace of the way the yeshiva wants them to. And JUST when they are finding themselves the "old school" hanhala decides this talmid is NOT what our Yeshiva represents. I pray that you never have to go through what many go through. But there are many talmidim who are kicked out just bc they didn't fit in at the right time - and it takes a LONG time to pick up the pieces of their lives. Many of these yeshivas work with "old school" type of education of whipping the students with words that hurt, "your life will amount to nothing" Rav Yisroel Salanter say, "There is no great illness than discouragment". Think about that ”