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Israel - Rabbi Ovadia Yosef: Fires Only Happen Where Shabbat is Desecrated

Published on: December 4, 2010 06:29 PM
By:  JPost
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Israel - Shas Council of Torah Sages Head Rabbi Ovadia Yosef said on Saturday night that the devastating Carmel fire was a result of insufficient Shabbat observance in the area.

“Fires only happen in a place where Shabbat is desecrated,” he quoted from the Babylonian Talmud Shabbat tractate in his weekly sermon. “Homes were ruined,” he continued, “entire neighborhoods wiped out, and it is not arbitrary. It is all divine providence.”

“We must repent, keep Shabbat appropriately. When the People of Israel repent, God safeguards them with a wall of fire,” but not of the incinerating type, Yosef added.


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1

 Dec 04, 2010 at 06:35 PM G-Bro Says:

Note to all those who post comments on this site and like to 'play God', judging others and giving reasons for tragedies...when you are on the level of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and are in his position, you can make such comments like these-otherwise, please know your boundaries.

2

 Dec 04, 2010 at 06:35 PM Anonymous Says:

With all respect, I wisht this rav would keep his mouth shut while Isreaelis are dying and thousands are fighting the fires. There will be enough time to assign blame when the flames are extinguished.

3

 Dec 04, 2010 at 06:43 PM independent_mind Says:

Oh please! We live in a generation that needs chizuk and not mussar! We r suffering enough and so many of us try harder and harder! So dont play the blame game! True, every person must work on themselves but to come out and say whats the reason? I think since the holocaust no one has the authority to proclaim something like that. Even a chacham like harav ovadia.

4

 Dec 04, 2010 at 06:45 PM berelw Says:

how can he say such a thing? every yid is kodesh! the gemorah says "al fapi sechuta yisroel he" a manhig job is to find a zchus in a yid not the opposite! .....shame!
we need rav levi yitzchok of bardichiv who found a zchus in every yid, no matter who...
im tired of these baseless hateful proclamations.

5

 Dec 04, 2010 at 06:49 PM fat36 Says:

Reply to #1  
G-Bro Says:

Note to all those who post comments on this site and like to 'play God', judging others and giving reasons for tragedies...when you are on the level of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and are in his position, you can make such comments like these-otherwise, please know your boundaries.

he should not be playing g-d.

6

 Dec 04, 2010 at 06:53 PM Joe Says:

He quoted a Gemara, do you guys have a problem with that?

7

 Dec 04, 2010 at 06:57 PM JerusalamiKugel Says:

So what about the orthodox family from Sbarro bombing , chabad in mumbai, or whole family hit by train in van, what did they all do? what a reckless thing to say-so all of us are not safe for living in newyork since there is shabbas desecration?

8

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:05 PM Rebbishekup Says:

Its amazing to see such evil bashers on this site. They seem to be on the level of saying what the gedolim are allowed and not allowed to say.

Did the chofetz chaim have any right to say that the holocaust came about because people showed no respect to shuls since they talked during davening? Did chazal have any right to tell us why the bais hamikash was destroyed? Apparently, your opinion would say NO!

True, Harav Ovadia may not be on the level of leaders in previous generations, however, he is a leader of this generation. Its not for me or you to decide who the leaders are today rather the klal. So before you open your mouth and decide in your minuscule brain what your dopey feelings are, think what you are compared to him and it may humble you a bit.

9

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:08 PM Normal Says:

I was waiting for this comment since the fires started. So I guess all of Israel ch'vsh will burn.

10

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:10 PM Anonymous Says:

To # 2 3 4 5 shame on all of you, who and what are you to dare defy the words of the holy hacham. every word that comes out of his holy mouth is emet and if this holy hacham said it it's true. shame on you for your disrespect towards him. I suggest you all ask him mechila.

11

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:15 PM Pondering Says:

You are wrong !!!
The responsobility of a Rav, espeacially the caliber of Rav Yosef, is to , Yes, Find zechusim, but when something of this magnitude happens, he must raise the awerness of his followers, and of all Yiddin, where we should better ourselves.
All great Rabunim did the same thing. Even the late Lubavitcher Rebbe, once pointed out to a tragedy in Eretz Yisrael, that is happened because of desacrating the Shabbos,,

12

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:16 PM bubii Says:

this scare tactic of rav ovadia wont work people are not that stupid as to believe such mindless inconsiderate incensitive statements as why this happened he is playing god and that is a no no, i think he has dementia he doesnt realize how idiotic his oppinions are, to me he looks like he is in his second childhood as the saying goes be quite people will think youre smart, seyog lehohmu shtike

13

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:17 PM KevinTheMevin Says:

WOW I am so impressed that this guy did not blame Amsalem for the fires! I respect all Talmidie Chachomim but this guy knows too many reasons for everything bad that happens, he's out of control.

14

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:18 PM Paulie123 Says:

Here we have all the kofrim and anti Torah creatures coming out of the woodwork and offering their worthless 2 cents. Whats wrong with you idiots? Dont you know who you are messing with? Its the truth that hurts and noone wants mussar. They want to live their empty lives with sin and desire and fail to acknowledge that everything that happens in life is for a reason and Rav Ovadia has the courage and the wisdom to give mussar to those that need it. Woe to all of you that ignore his cries, your days of reckoning will come soon and you will be in deep trouble. Shame on you !!!!

15

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:21 PM JamesDean Says:

Does anyone know how many Yidden there were in San Fransisco in 1906?

16

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:21 PM BeKind Says:

Attention: Unless you know more Torah than Rav Ovadia, don't bother posting any criticism of his statement.

17

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:26 PM reasonable Says:

He didn't do anything wrong by speaking the TRUTH. The rav is blunt as says how it is. People need mussar just as much as chizuk. But people are "afraid" of hearing the truth, They rather just stay in denial. If any of you hear the rav speak in his weekly shiur you would know that he loves every jew more than any of us and davens for all klal yisroel. He doesn't differentiate between charaidi or not. Never! But when a tragedy like this outbursts he gives mussar (and chizuk as well that vin doesn't display)but in the same time truly feels the pain of all those that were effected terribly by this fire.

18

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:32 PM charliehall Says:

Reply to #8  
Rebbishekup Says:

Its amazing to see such evil bashers on this site. They seem to be on the level of saying what the gedolim are allowed and not allowed to say.

Did the chofetz chaim have any right to say that the holocaust came about because people showed no respect to shuls since they talked during davening? Did chazal have any right to tell us why the bais hamikash was destroyed? Apparently, your opinion would say NO!

True, Harav Ovadia may not be on the level of leaders in previous generations, however, he is a leader of this generation. Its not for me or you to decide who the leaders are today rather the klal. So before you open your mouth and decide in your minuscule brain what your dopey feelings are, think what you are compared to him and it may humble you a bit.

The Chofetz Chaim did not attribute the Shoah to people talking during davening. He had died in 1933.

19

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:33 PM Kanaim Says:

Truer words were never spoken. Except for the liberal shkatzim who think everything is random and that Hashem is off watching TV somewhere while this all happens.

20

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:35 PM Yanky Says:

Here we go again, with the claim that every word coming out of a man's mouth is holy just becaue he knows a lot of Shas. When I was a kid in yeshiva we used to laugh at the Catholics for claiming one man, the pope, was infallible. But we frum Yidden now have hundreds of popes -- every big-name rosh yeshiva or lamdan is suddenly infallible and can never be questioned. As for the comment about the Chofetz Chaim - he died years before the Holocaust, so he couldn't have blamed it on anything.

21

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:36 PM true Says:

What's true is true. He quoted a gemara. So all you that choose to bad mouth rabbi yosef its only because your baali lashon harah and bored with your time! Not to mention that we have NO right to question a gadols words. Especially when it comes to torah words .take the mussar and believe that whatever the talmud says is 100% true and accurate.

22

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:38 PM Paulie123 Says:

Reply to #7  
JerusalamiKugel Says:

So what about the orthodox family from Sbarro bombing , chabad in mumbai, or whole family hit by train in van, what did they all do? what a reckless thing to say-so all of us are not safe for living in newyork since there is shabbas desecration?

Are you stupid ? He quoted a Gemorah, you also have issues with Chazal?

23

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:43 PM Wiznitzer Says:

To #8, I am not disagreeing with you in general. But the Chofetz Chaim was nifter about 7 years before the holocaust, so he wouldnt have been commenting on it..

25

 Dec 04, 2010 at 07:55 PM Shlomo2 Says:

Reply to #22  
Paulie123 Says:

Are you stupid ? He quoted a Gemorah, you also have issues with Chazal?

The question is not what the gemara says and whetehr we should believe it.

Rather , the question is whether one of the Tannaim or Amoraim would have thought it wise to say such a thing to such a thing while 41 families are still sitting shiva, thousands have lost their homes, and others (not frum) are risking their lives to fight a fire that is still raging.

Perhaps a Tanna or AMora would have stopped to consider whether speaking this way is constructive and whether it only serves to distance people from wanting to have anything to do with Torah.

26

 Dec 04, 2010 at 08:00 PM Out of context? Says:

Over the past many years I've found that most of these quotes are out of context. When you hear the whole context of the remark, he may have said something entirely different.
So before rushing to make silly comments, get the context. Realize that the source of this report is a chiloni paper which may be telling the truth, but only half of the truth which may be a falsehood. Not unprecedented.

27

 Dec 04, 2010 at 08:00 PM Chaim_Ben-Yehuda Says:

Reply to #11  
Pondering Says:

You are wrong !!!
The responsobility of a Rav, espeacially the caliber of Rav Yosef, is to , Yes, Find zechusim, but when something of this magnitude happens, he must raise the awerness of his followers, and of all Yiddin, where we should better ourselves.
All great Rabunim did the same thing. Even the late Lubavitcher Rebbe, once pointed out to a tragedy in Eretz Yisrael, that is happened because of desacrating the Shabbos,,

"Find zechusim"

Yes indeed, Pondering! But, if I may be a tad pedantic, the word 'zechus' is feminine, so the plural of 'zechus' will be 'zechuyos'.

Similarly the plurals of 'talis' and 'shabbos' would be 'talisos' and 'shabbasos' respectively.

Apologies for the thread drift. Now please carry on!

28

 Dec 04, 2010 at 08:12 PM Kzler Says:

Reply to #3  
independent_mind Says:

Oh please! We live in a generation that needs chizuk and not mussar! We r suffering enough and so many of us try harder and harder! So dont play the blame game! True, every person must work on themselves but to come out and say whats the reason? I think since the holocaust no one has the authority to proclaim something like that. Even a chacham like harav ovadia.

I am survivor , davened before concentration camp, daven in the concentration camp daven now and so do my children and grandchilddren. I applaud you for your statement and insight , When erliche Yidden went to the crematoria with others and were burned even as you say and I concur a chacham should observe silence

29

 Dec 04, 2010 at 08:15 PM MordechaiG Says:

Yechi hamelech!
We must pray to hashem that reb ovadia is maarich yumim.
We need gedolim that know kol hatorah to find the appropriate chazal in time of tragedy!
And to the apikorsim that bash someone that merely quotes daas chazal;do teshuva!

30

 Dec 04, 2010 at 08:17 PM Kanaim Says:

Reply to #21  
true Says:

What's true is true. He quoted a gemara. So all you that choose to bad mouth rabbi yosef its only because your baali lashon harah and bored with your time! Not to mention that we have NO right to question a gadols words. Especially when it comes to torah words .take the mussar and believe that whatever the talmud says is 100% true and accurate.

All you say is true Daas Torah! Kein Yirbu & Tizku l'Mitzvos! They only like the parts of Gemara and Torah that make them feel good and that they can easily understand. To them, everything else is up for dispute and badmouthing. ALL Gedolei Yisroel are KODESH KEDOSHIM, and to disparage any of them is akin to bashing the Torah itself! Nobody ever claimed they are infallible like the goyim do with their pope. The fire is mamash the onesh of serefah, clear.

31

 Dec 04, 2010 at 08:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Anyone who says that this fire, or any other calamity, even the Holocaust, is some kind of random occurrence that Hashem had nothing to do with is a kofer in kol haTorah kulah. EVERYTHING that happens is Hashem's will.

32

 Dec 04, 2010 at 08:19 PM MordechaiG Says:

Reply to #12  
bubii Says:

this scare tactic of rav ovadia wont work people are not that stupid as to believe such mindless inconsiderate incensitive statements as why this happened he is playing god and that is a no no, i think he has dementia he doesnt realize how idiotic his oppinions are, to me he looks like he is in his second childhood as the saying goes be quite people will think youre smart, seyog lehohmu shtike

U call chacham ovadia's statement "Such mindless inconsiderate statement".
How dare u?!
He states nothing but chazal! U are beyond mindless. And u just lost ur cheilek in oilom haboo for ur malig al divrei chazal which state that fire happen due to lack of shemirat shabbat!

33

 Dec 04, 2010 at 08:29 PM Anonymous Says:

To #12 and 13#. You have no daas torah and have absolutely went past your limits by revealing your idiocy. You obviously don't know who your speaking about nor did you ever hear any of his shiurim. So "gam e'vil machrish chacham yechashev". Gd bless him with a long healthy life.

34

 Dec 04, 2010 at 08:33 PM enlightened-yid Says:

Does Talmud warn us of consequences and forest fires if Torah observers steal and abuse women and children? I think I get Shas' wisdom. Secular Israelis don't observe shabbos and mitzvos so they cause fires and wars. But the bloated yeshiva/kollel system where the holy rabbis defraud and steal tax money from citizens are here to protect us from wars and disasters with their "spirituality." At least Amsalem will be sleeping well because he escaped the blame game for now.

35

 Dec 04, 2010 at 08:55 PM KevinTheMevin Says:

If this is the only reason for the great fire in Israel, does that mean the only reason Shas lost so many seats in the Kenneset is because Rabbi Ovadia is a sinner?

36

 Dec 04, 2010 at 09:02 PM MordechaiG Says:

Reply to #25  
Shlomo2 Says:

The question is not what the gemara says and whetehr we should believe it.

Rather , the question is whether one of the Tannaim or Amoraim would have thought it wise to say such a thing to such a thing while 41 families are still sitting shiva, thousands have lost their homes, and others (not frum) are risking their lives to fight a fire that is still raging.

Perhaps a Tanna or AMora would have stopped to consider whether speaking this way is constructive and whether it only serves to distance people from wanting to have anything to do with Torah.

Yes. Reb ovadia knows all chazal and I guess u don't!
Chazal say "A chacham that's not moiche on ovoin hador get punished for the chet"

37

 Dec 04, 2010 at 09:20 PM JerusalamiKugel Says:

Reply to #22  
Paulie123 Says:

Are you stupid ? He quoted a Gemorah, you also have issues with Chazal?

You should learn some derech eretz- I think the Nypost blogs is more your speed-
if you read the article you would understand you am haaretz

38

 Dec 04, 2010 at 09:20 PM Pipk11 Says:

Just this past week (end of the ) Torah portion, Yehuda attributes the problems he is facing with the silver goblet etc. to being harsh and insensitive with his brother. The Torah very clearly connects bad occurences with lacking behaviour.
BTW the Lubavitcher Rebbe many times connected fires with a weaknes in shmiras shabbos.

May Hashem have rachmonus on his people.

39

 Dec 04, 2010 at 09:46 PM Just Asking Says:

I wonder what we could say to those who think that there might be a connection between Eli Yishai being blamed for the fire and Rav Ovadiah's wanting to blame it on Chillul Shabbos.

A cynic would say that Rav Ovadia is not able to view this objectively, given that he wants to protect his closest and most powerful ally, who is being asked to resign.

Yishai, by the way, is blaming it on Ariel Sharon, who has been in a coma for the past five years.

40

 Dec 04, 2010 at 10:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
Paulie123 Says:

Are you stupid ? He quoted a Gemorah, you also have issues with Chazal?

Yes. Its easy to find words in tanach or some arcane chazal and twist them in an effort to support your position, however vile or hateful that position might be. Yosef seems to excel at finding some halachic rationale for every natural event or tragedy that happens and then "blames the victims". There are some who post here that say we Yosef is a gadol and we must blindly follow him without questioning. Guess what. Ninty nine percent of yidden have the intelligence and reasoning ability to think for themselves and most of them are disgusted with these kinds of senseless comments while the flames are still burning.

41

 Dec 04, 2010 at 10:27 PM Chaim_Ben-Yehuda Says:

Reply to #39  
Just Asking Says:

I wonder what we could say to those who think that there might be a connection between Eli Yishai being blamed for the fire and Rav Ovadiah's wanting to blame it on Chillul Shabbos.

A cynic would say that Rav Ovadia is not able to view this objectively, given that he wants to protect his closest and most powerful ally, who is being asked to resign.

Yishai, by the way, is blaming it on Ariel Sharon, who has been in a coma for the past five years.

"Yishai, by the way, is blaming it on Ariel Sharon, who has been in a coma for the past five years."

Now THAT is interesting! Where did you read that, please, Just Asking?

42

 Dec 04, 2010 at 10:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Just Asking Says:

I wonder what we could say to those who think that there might be a connection between Eli Yishai being blamed for the fire and Rav Ovadiah's wanting to blame it on Chillul Shabbos.

A cynic would say that Rav Ovadia is not able to view this objectively, given that he wants to protect his closest and most powerful ally, who is being asked to resign.

Yishai, by the way, is blaming it on Ariel Sharon, who has been in a coma for the past five years.

That's exactly the rabbis point. It has nothing to do with yishia or any other member of the knesset. Its simply because of chilul shabos. The reason we can't say such a statement is because we don't have the view of a gadol that seeks everything from the talmud.

43

 Dec 04, 2010 at 10:46 PM ProminantLawyer Says:

so....why are there so manys fires in Williamburg and BP before paysach? Those places have more wholey sites than anywheres.

44

 Dec 04, 2010 at 10:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Rebbishekup Says:

Its amazing to see such evil bashers on this site. They seem to be on the level of saying what the gedolim are allowed and not allowed to say.

Did the chofetz chaim have any right to say that the holocaust came about because people showed no respect to shuls since they talked during davening? Did chazal have any right to tell us why the bais hamikash was destroyed? Apparently, your opinion would say NO!

True, Harav Ovadia may not be on the level of leaders in previous generations, however, he is a leader of this generation. Its not for me or you to decide who the leaders are today rather the klal. So before you open your mouth and decide in your minuscule brain what your dopey feelings are, think what you are compared to him and it may humble you a bit.

Very true. I agree. Only that how could they compare themselves to him if they never learned his seforim or heard his shiurim or even read amazing stories about his gadlus in torah and ahava for klal yosroel. Such a shame.

45

 Dec 04, 2010 at 10:53 PM hey Says:

People. Where is the achdus? Let's take the words of mussar and be mechazek ourselves. Its not a time to discriminate a rav or to speak L"H. If you feel like the tragedy has nothing to do with us because we live in the states that's your call. But let's not get carried away. G"v

46

 Dec 04, 2010 at 10:58 PM leahle Says:

Not all of the victims are Jews. A number of Druze are among the dead.

47

 Dec 04, 2010 at 11:01 PM esther Says:

Reply to #11  
Pondering Says:

You are wrong !!!
The responsobility of a Rav, espeacially the caliber of Rav Yosef, is to , Yes, Find zechusim, but when something of this magnitude happens, he must raise the awerness of his followers, and of all Yiddin, where we should better ourselves.
All great Rabunim did the same thing. Even the late Lubavitcher Rebbe, once pointed out to a tragedy in Eretz Yisrael, that is happened because of desacrating the Shabbos,,

re the rebbe's statement,i don't think so.please state your source.

48

 Dec 04, 2010 at 11:07 PM bubii Says:

Reply to #32  
MordechaiG Says:

U call chacham ovadia's statement "Such mindless inconsiderate statement".
How dare u?!
He states nothing but chazal! U are beyond mindless. And u just lost ur cheilek in oilom haboo for ur malig al divrei chazal which state that fire happen due to lack of shemirat shabbat!

you should be ashamed of youreself this is the way a torah learned person writes with such animosity and hatred with someone who disagree with youre thinking ,you need help youre mentally deranged youre the one who lost youre oilom haboo di farrikter shoite yes better to be quiete then to speak such nonsense like ovadie i dont care who he is he is not g-d and i dont like someone who is playing g-od with someone elses life

49

 Dec 04, 2010 at 11:20 PM Yerachmiel Says:

Reply to #8  
Rebbishekup Says:

Its amazing to see such evil bashers on this site. They seem to be on the level of saying what the gedolim are allowed and not allowed to say.

Did the chofetz chaim have any right to say that the holocaust came about because people showed no respect to shuls since they talked during davening? Did chazal have any right to tell us why the bais hamikash was destroyed? Apparently, your opinion would say NO!

True, Harav Ovadia may not be on the level of leaders in previous generations, however, he is a leader of this generation. Its not for me or you to decide who the leaders are today rather the klal. So before you open your mouth and decide in your minuscule brain what your dopey feelings are, think what you are compared to him and it may humble you a bit.

Where do you come saying the Chofetz Chaim said anything about the holocaust. He was niftar in 1937 before the mass killing started.

50

 Dec 04, 2010 at 11:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #45  
hey Says:

People. Where is the achdus? Let's take the words of mussar and be mechazek ourselves. Its not a time to discriminate a rav or to speak L"H. If you feel like the tragedy has nothing to do with us because we live in the states that's your call. But let's not get carried away. G"v

No...lets take these so called "words of mussar" and trash them and their source. Achdus within klal yisroel means coming together at a time of national tragedy insteading of this mindless blabbering we get from him every tiime there is another event of this type. If he was a leader, he would be focusing on assuring that the victims receive the help they will need, that the fire fighting budgets are increased and that the dreche leadership of the Interior Ministry (aka Yishai) is held accountable for the deaths of the kadoshim who perished.

51

 Dec 04, 2010 at 11:32 PM btw Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

Yes. Its easy to find words in tanach or some arcane chazal and twist them in an effort to support your position, however vile or hateful that position might be. Yosef seems to excel at finding some halachic rationale for every natural event or tragedy that happens and then "blames the victims". There are some who post here that say we Yosef is a gadol and we must blindly follow him without questioning. Guess what. Ninty nine percent of yidden have the intelligence and reasoning ability to think for themselves and most of them are disgusted with these kinds of senseless comments while the flames are still burning.

"The ability to think for themselves". Well that might be true however 99 percent of yidden aren't torah scholars or even spend half the time learning the talmud like rav yosef did. Now when a person reaches that level then he's allowed and MUST state his opinion in a torah mind set. Not like most commentaries here that think they could speak freely about a true torah scholar. So in the future think before you mock a person not to mention rav yosef. Hope you understand that mockery on a talmid chacham is considered a apikores by the same talmud that states "a fire is caused because of chilul shabos"

52

 Dec 04, 2010 at 11:32 PM Yerachmiel Lopin Says:

Reply to #8  
Rebbishekup Says:

Its amazing to see such evil bashers on this site. They seem to be on the level of saying what the gedolim are allowed and not allowed to say.

Did the chofetz chaim have any right to say that the holocaust came about because people showed no respect to shuls since they talked during davening? Did chazal have any right to tell us why the bais hamikash was destroyed? Apparently, your opinion would say NO!

True, Harav Ovadia may not be on the level of leaders in previous generations, however, he is a leader of this generation. Its not for me or you to decide who the leaders are today rather the klal. So before you open your mouth and decide in your minuscule brain what your dopey feelings are, think what you are compared to him and it may humble you a bit.

Chacham Ovadiah is a gevaldig talmid chochom. But he is also a manhig of a political party. L'halachah, even a gevaldig tzadik and talmid chochom is not allowed to pasken or serve on a bais din or play other such roles when he is nogeiah b'davar. Judaism is stricter than secular law about conflicts of interest. The fact is that R. Ovadiah is nogeiah b'davar because shas is his political tool and Yishai will lose a lot of power if he is forced to resign because he is judged guilty of negligence.

53

 Dec 04, 2010 at 11:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #43  
ProminantLawyer Says:

so....why are there so manys fires in Williamburg and BP before paysach? Those places have more wholey sites than anywheres.

Sad to say that maybe hashem is makpid with the tzadim more than everyone else. So there slightest mistake of chilul shabos could cause a fire or other tragedies c"v

54

 Dec 05, 2010 at 12:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
Chaim_Ben-Yehuda Says:

"Yishai, by the way, is blaming it on Ariel Sharon, who has been in a coma for the past five years."

Now THAT is interesting! Where did you read that, please, Just Asking?

It was during a live TV interview on friday with "mabat"

55

 Dec 05, 2010 at 12:09 AM Kanaim Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

Yes. Its easy to find words in tanach or some arcane chazal and twist them in an effort to support your position, however vile or hateful that position might be. Yosef seems to excel at finding some halachic rationale for every natural event or tragedy that happens and then "blames the victims". There are some who post here that say we Yosef is a gadol and we must blindly follow him without questioning. Guess what. Ninty nine percent of yidden have the intelligence and reasoning ability to think for themselves and most of them are disgusted with these kinds of senseless comments while the flames are still burning.

Because there is no such thing as a natural event. ALL is Hashem's handiwork. A baby dies, blame Hashem. A lawnmower breaks, blame Hashem. The light turns red when you're in a hurry to get to work, guess what? Yeah, you got it.

56

 Dec 05, 2010 at 01:21 AM alte_zetzer Says:

Reply to #18  
charliehall Says:

The Chofetz Chaim did not attribute the Shoah to people talking during davening. He had died in 1933.

I heard Reb Avigdor Miller say so... He discussed the reason for the 'Chorbon' and he was screaming: Poland was ROTTEN I was standing on the street on shobbos and buses were hauling jewish people to work. 'hayoser goyim haloi yoichiach' so should we say when he is punishing jews???
I would say: many YOU commentators here who can't take this 'muser' and don't believe in CHAZAL, YOU ARE the cause of all the TZUROS!!! What are you waiting for? More?

57

 Dec 05, 2010 at 02:10 AM MordechaiG Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

Yes. Its easy to find words in tanach or some arcane chazal and twist them in an effort to support your position, however vile or hateful that position might be. Yosef seems to excel at finding some halachic rationale for every natural event or tragedy that happens and then "blames the victims". There are some who post here that say we Yosef is a gadol and we must blindly follow him without questioning. Guess what. Ninty nine percent of yidden have the intelligence and reasoning ability to think for themselves and most of them are disgusted with these kinds of senseless comments while the flames are still burning.

Correct. 99 percent of the people have their own brains and follow the words of chacham ovadia.
Just ask any seforim store.
Tens of thousands of copies of Chacham ovadia's seforim are sold annually!

58

 Dec 05, 2010 at 02:13 AM MordechaiG Says:

Reply to #48  
bubii Says:

you should be ashamed of youreself this is the way a torah learned person writes with such animosity and hatred with someone who disagree with youre thinking ,you need help youre mentally deranged youre the one who lost youre oilom haboo di farrikter shoite yes better to be quiete then to speak such nonsense like ovadie i dont care who he is he is not g-d and i dont like someone who is playing g-od with someone elses life

Besides for being repititous and lashing out @ me, do u have anything else to say for urslef

59

 Dec 05, 2010 at 02:14 AM MordechaiG Says:

Reply to #48  
bubii Says:

you should be ashamed of youreself this is the way a torah learned person writes with such animosity and hatred with someone who disagree with youre thinking ,you need help youre mentally deranged youre the one who lost youre oilom haboo di farrikter shoite yes better to be quiete then to speak such nonsense like ovadie i dont care who he is he is not g-d and i dont like someone who is playing g-od with someone elses life

Yes. I am torah learned, and that's why I wirte with such hatred! Misaneichu hashem esnu ....

60

 Dec 05, 2010 at 04:30 AM Anon Ibid Opcit Says:

Reply to #8  
Rebbishekup Says:

Its amazing to see such evil bashers on this site. They seem to be on the level of saying what the gedolim are allowed and not allowed to say.

Did the chofetz chaim have any right to say that the holocaust came about because people showed no respect to shuls since they talked during davening? Did chazal have any right to tell us why the bais hamikash was destroyed? Apparently, your opinion would say NO!

True, Harav Ovadia may not be on the level of leaders in previous generations, however, he is a leader of this generation. Its not for me or you to decide who the leaders are today rather the klal. So before you open your mouth and decide in your minuscule brain what your dopey feelings are, think what you are compared to him and it may humble you a bit.

Yes. We are evil bashers. We bash evil.
He is free to say pretty much whatever he wants. But when he spouts nonsense we are free to mock him for it. A gray beard and a fancy robe do not protect a man from saying stupid things.

One aporikos out on the line cutting brush and manning a hose does infinitely more to protect Israel from fires than all the pronouncements of this pious dunce.

61

 Dec 05, 2010 at 05:16 AM cowfy Says:

well he says what he believes.no doubt about that.in this generation of halfling spiritual leaders he makes points.you may dissagree but you cant fault him on his stateing his opinions.besides he sure as day comes after nite he makes it intresting.

62

 Dec 05, 2010 at 05:35 AM Michael BarDaniel Says:

Regarding comments saying the Chafetz Chaim was niftar before the holocaust, although he was in fact niftar in 1933, he warned of an impending doom. He said there would be devastation. When people asked what they could do to save themselves he quoted a pasuk from Ovadia (1:17) Ubehar tzion tiheye pelaita.

63

 Dec 05, 2010 at 07:09 AM Anonymous Says:

Yes, Rabbi Yosef is a great Torah scholar - but he is past his prime. He may well have been quoting Gamorrah - but he chose the wrong time to do so. The Shas council would be wise to elect a new spokesman - one who hasn't lost touch with reality. How dare he disrespect the families of those who perished - many frum amongst them. If this is the behaviour that one can expect from the frum leaders, then I will thank Hashem that I am not frum. I can guarantee that my Rabbi would never utter such statements - while the tragic situation still rages.

64

 Dec 05, 2010 at 08:07 AM MODERNJEW Says:

All of this back and forth is senseless. Those that believe in hashem know the truth that everything happens for a reason and those that dont believe in hashem will always have something to say about it. The fact that Harav Ovadia came out and quoted a gemarah should have no basis for controversy, if you have a problem with what he said I suggest writing an email to the original authors of the talmud. I myself lack faith in certain areas and have a time coming to terms with the things I see happening around me especially when ppl tell me, if you keep shabat, this wont happen to you, if you keep kosher this wont happen to you. But as an adult, I have noticed too many "miracles" to doubt the existence of god and that hes responsible for EVERYTHING that happens in this world! Chag sameach.

65

 Dec 05, 2010 at 08:57 AM bubii Says:

Reply to #59  
MordechaiG Says:

Yes. I am torah learned, and that's why I wirte with such hatred! Misaneichu hashem esnu ....

so you can write hatefully if youre torah learned you really show youre true character, the exact opposite is true youre a fake and a fraud better you not write here and heed the words of seyog lehohme shtike you fool that you are

66

 Dec 05, 2010 at 09:06 AM Yochie Says:

Reply to #60  
Anon Ibid Opcit Says:

Yes. We are evil bashers. We bash evil.
He is free to say pretty much whatever he wants. But when he spouts nonsense we are free to mock him for it. A gray beard and a fancy robe do not protect a man from saying stupid things.

One aporikos out on the line cutting brush and manning a hose does infinitely more to protect Israel from fires than all the pronouncements of this pious dunce.

You RASHA, AZ PANIM
You blew you cover. Why would a christian monk comment on this Jewish Orthodox site. Leave us be. You can spew your filth on enough goyeshe (non-Jewish) sites.
The majority of us Yidden (Jews) do believe in HaShem and His Gedolim.

67

 Dec 05, 2010 at 09:18 AM amicable Says:

Reply to #9  
Normal Says:

I was waiting for this comment since the fires started. So I guess all of Israel ch'vsh will burn.

If all of Israel desecrated shabbos, all of israel would indeed burn.

Thankfully, amidst the pockets of the heretics there is light..... Vshummmmru, binai Yisroel..... Esss hashaaahbusss..... LaHahsoyhs ess hashabbas, ledoyroysum briss oylummm

68

 Dec 05, 2010 at 09:23 AM Dikduk Says:

Reply to #27  
Chaim_Ben-Yehuda Says:

"Find zechusim"

Yes indeed, Pondering! But, if I may be a tad pedantic, the word 'zechus' is feminine, so the plural of 'zechus' will be 'zechuyos'.

Similarly the plurals of 'talis' and 'shabbos' would be 'talisos' and 'shabbasos' respectively.

Apologies for the thread drift. Now please carry on!

Shabbos is both masculine and feminine.
Please see: Vayikro 23:32: Shabbos Shabbosoin Hu Lochem.
BTW, do you say "Shabbos Koidesh" (instead of "Shabbos K'doishoh")?

69

 Dec 05, 2010 at 12:03 PM GB_Jew Says:

Reply to #66  
Yochie Says:

You RASHA, AZ PANIM
You blew you cover. Why would a christian monk comment on this Jewish Orthodox site. Leave us be. You can spew your filth on enough goyeshe (non-Jewish) sites.
The majority of us Yidden (Jews) do believe in HaShem and His Gedolim.

"The majority of us Yidden (Jews) do believe in HaShem and His Gedolim"

Perhaps, in the interests of total accuracy, that sentence should be amended to read: "The majority of us Yidden (Jews) do believe in HaShem and not a few of us believe in His gedolim".

And another thing, Yochie: cheap and petty insults detract from the force of your argument, If anything it gives the impression that you are intellectually shallow - and I am ure that is not the case.

Well, fairly sure.

70

 Dec 05, 2010 at 12:30 PM anonymous Says:

The deragatory names are flying on this website. Skatzim, liberals and all types of adjectives. Maybe someone will answer this question that the statistic show that Israel for its total population is below the norm in firefighters. Could it be that sitting quetsching a bank is a lot easier than joining the fire department. Instead of quoting all types of maamers from chazal maybe concentrate on that issue. Any of you talmidim chachomim ready to learn fire fighting. I doubt it because men ken zich verbrennen

71

 Dec 05, 2010 at 01:44 PM GB_Jew Says:

"Maybe someone will answer this question that the statistic show that Israel for its total population is below the norm in firefighters. ."

That is a truly excellent point, anonymous #70.

Notwithstanding that many Israelis are prepared to serve in some of the most dangerous of units in the IDF, that a fair percentage are police officers and that not a few serve in the Mossad or the Shin Bet, the fire service has always seemed to be the Cinderella of Israel's security set up.

Judging by what I have opined above, it is not that Israeli men and women are afraid of tough tasks; could it be that the salary on offer is not commensurate with the job requirements?

Nevertheless, anonymous #70, I think your remark "Any of you talmidim chachomim ready to learn fire fighting. I doubt it because men ken zich verbrennen" is beneath all possible contempt.

And I write as a confirmed cynic of the apparently free-loading kolel system in Israel.

72

 Dec 05, 2010 at 02:42 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #71  
GB_Jew Says:

"Maybe someone will answer this question that the statistic show that Israel for its total population is below the norm in firefighters. ."

That is a truly excellent point, anonymous #70.

Notwithstanding that many Israelis are prepared to serve in some of the most dangerous of units in the IDF, that a fair percentage are police officers and that not a few serve in the Mossad or the Shin Bet, the fire service has always seemed to be the Cinderella of Israel's security set up.

Judging by what I have opined above, it is not that Israeli men and women are afraid of tough tasks; could it be that the salary on offer is not commensurate with the job requirements?

Nevertheless, anonymous #70, I think your remark "Any of you talmidim chachomim ready to learn fire fighting. I doubt it because men ken zich verbrennen" is beneath all possible contempt.

And I write as a confirmed cynic of the apparently free-loading kolel system in Israel.

The fact is that Zakai members have been shunned and the head of Zakai has been literally araugeworfen although it is a grisly task and I have great admiration and derech for the members. Your quote that "the salary is not commensurate with the job requirement" fits your adjective given to my comment. I am asking you serving in the Givati brigade or Nahal brigade is commensurate with job requirement. Being a security guard on an El-Al flight is commensurate, working in the burned unit of Tel-Hashomer hospital is commensurate. You give the best reply to my argument that they are jobs or task for which that person may earn more in an other function but he does that particular as a service to acheinu bnei Yisroel. Rabbi Goren in in 1945 risked his life and was injured searching for Jewish children hidden by Italian families . I have seen mesiras nefesh during the war and after the war. I admire mesiras nefesh and everything should not and cannot be based on earning potential.

73

 Dec 05, 2010 at 03:27 PM Chatzkaleh Says:

How do people know, seriously, that Rav Ovadia Yosef is a gadol? All I know so far that he wrote many seforim and that his mouth can be gadol.

74

 Dec 06, 2010 at 09:06 AM RamapoJew Says:

What methods are in place to ensure that when great rabanim begin to lose their faculties in later years that they retire to private life rather than continue to make outlandish remarks that right thinking individuals keep to themselves. even when they are true.

75

 Dec 07, 2010 at 02:22 PM Alasizdiaibershter Says:

One thing is for sure: Machloikah does not help!!!!!!! So just stop this nonsense & just beit di aibershter that all should be good!!!

76

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