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Jerusalem - Israeli Orthodox Rabbi: Lower Marriage Age To 15

Published on:   January 18, 2011 09:14 AM
News Source:  Ynet
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Jerusalem - The Lobby for Jewish Values and Director of Jerusalem-based Kol HaNa’ar Rabbi Asher Idan has presented a new initiative to lower the marriage age allowed by law.
In the past few days, Chairman of the Lobby for Jewish Values Ofer Cohen has approached several members of Knesset from religious factions in order to garner support for the new bill.

Currently the age of marriage allowed by law is 17, and according to the initiators of the bill, lowering it by even one year would pose a significant difference.
“There are many Hasidic communities that are interested in lowering the marriageable age, namely Vizhnitz and Breslov,” explained Rabbi Idan.
“Some Hasidic communities are already violating the law by marrying at the age of 15-16. Parents of large families who cannot financially support all their children would be able to marry off their daughter earlier so that she can move into her husband’s house,” he added.

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“Girls who do not want to study or work are a burden to the household,” Rabbi Idan noted, “In my opinion, these young people will contribute more to the State because they won’t go to nightclubs or waste their time looking for nonsense someplace else.”

Read more at Ynet News 


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1

 Jan 18, 2011 at 08:28 AM Anonymous Says:

Clearly after a year or two of HS they are no longer children.

2

 Jan 18, 2011 at 08:32 AM MonseyMan Says:

there are issues, but this does not seem like the most brilliant solution.

3

 Jan 18, 2011 at 08:47 AM Babishka Says:

What. Breathtaking. Stupidity.

4

 Jan 18, 2011 at 08:48 AM shin-kite Says:

Ben 18 lacupa did any one hear of that?

5

 Jan 18, 2011 at 08:49 AM JamesDean Says:

I think it's time for us to have a licensing board and communications board so everyone that thinks up a mishugas cannot put it into the open as a Rabbi. A "right wing religious jew" by-line would be pretty bad as well but at least it would not be "Rabbi".

6

 Jan 18, 2011 at 08:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Its a good solution and for the better this rabbi is mixing the Yotzros flip flop but the idea is a good one

7

 Jan 18, 2011 at 08:51 AM YidelfromBP Says:

THIS IS NONE SENSE!!
They will not get educated after marriage so they can find a descend paying job! All they will do is have children every year starting from age 15-16 instead of 18-19. at age 32 they will be out here in the US collecting for hachnuses Kalah for a father of 15-16 children (and couple of more to come...) And of course all of them we will have to help them buy houses!!!
Let them make a new law that no one should get married only with some degree so they have some knowledge and responsibility before they start building a jewish home! How is that sound? Ha?

8

 Jan 18, 2011 at 08:54 AM Aharon Says:

So the solution to poverty due to having too many children is to marry them off earlier so they start having more children earlier and have less education. By the way who is supporting the new couple?

9

 Jan 18, 2011 at 08:54 AM bpwife Says:

OMG, that is terrible! cant kids be kids anymore??? do they have to have babies at 16 ...at that rate they can have 20 kids, why on earth wont they lets kids have their childhood anymore, surely they can help out with laundry and cooking/ cleaning if they are indeed a burden, what a horrible thing to say that kids are a burden!

10

 Jan 18, 2011 at 08:54 AM Meir Says:

New law: firemen will start putting out fires by spraying gasoline on the flames.

11

 Jan 18, 2011 at 08:56 AM IpchaMistabre Says:

According to the Shulchan Aruch, Even Huezer Siman Alef Sief Gimel, the Mitzve Min Hamuvchar is to get married by the age of 13. If boys would be married at a young age, they would be prevented from committing terrible sins that are unfortunately committed by most teenagers. Of course there are those who stick their head in the sand and deny it, but lets not fool ourselves. I hope parents would come to their senses and marry off their childred at the youngest age possible.

12

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:05 AM sane Says:

How will marriage at 15 alleviate financial difficulties? It will only increase them, since now there will just be more people to support.

13

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:11 AM boro parker Says:

Reply to #8  
Aharon Says:

So the solution to poverty due to having too many children is to marry them off earlier so they start having more children earlier and have less education. By the way who is supporting the new couple?

R u jewish by any chance?? You don't believe that its a mitzva to have as many children possible??

14

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:11 AM oiber-chacham Says:

idiots like this guy,give judaism a black eye,any parent who would marry off their daughter under the age of consent which is 18,should be given a long prison sentence for child abuse,and the idiot who married her,should be locked up for statutory rape

15

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:19 AM bubii Says:

Reply to #11  
IpchaMistabre Says:

According to the Shulchan Aruch, Even Huezer Siman Alef Sief Gimel, the Mitzve Min Hamuvchar is to get married by the age of 13. If boys would be married at a young age, they would be prevented from committing terrible sins that are unfortunately committed by most teenagers. Of course there are those who stick their head in the sand and deny it, but lets not fool ourselves. I hope parents would come to their senses and marry off their childred at the youngest age possible.

marrying at an early age is ok if you can support youreself but we know most cannot even in the animal kingdom they dont have offsprings until they have enough food to feed them its a kal vehoimer that humans are much more intelligent and refrain until they can supprt a family so #11 youre writing is nonsensical you write without thinking it through without seihel just to write di shoite vus di bist

16

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:20 AM Babishka Says:

The reason people got married at 15 back in the olden days was because the life expectancy was less than 40!

17

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
IpchaMistabre Says:

According to the Shulchan Aruch, Even Huezer Siman Alef Sief Gimel, the Mitzve Min Hamuvchar is to get married by the age of 13. If boys would be married at a young age, they would be prevented from committing terrible sins that are unfortunately committed by most teenagers. Of course there are those who stick their head in the sand and deny it, but lets not fool ourselves. I hope parents would come to their senses and marry off their childred at the youngest age possible.

the most terrible sin is not having an income and making children and putting the burden on others cant be more evil then that

18

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:25 AM DavidMoshe Says:

Let's see... families are so big that parents are not able to care for their children, so the best solution would be.... (wait for it!) to have the children move out and start large families of their own at an age when they're not emotionally or financially ready to handle it! Amazing! Some times, one wonders what these rabbis are smoking...

19

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:25 AM jewishmother Says:

The full article says that early marriage will stop rape and keep young people from hanging out at clubs. Problem: Young people who are prone to rape and want to hang out at clubs are too immature for marriage!

20

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:30 AM Tzi_Bar_David Says:

Rabbi Idan noted, “In my opinion, these young people will contribute more to the State because they won’t go to nightclubs or waste their time looking for nonsense someplace else.” Yes, a much better idea, stay home birthin' babies that they and their equally juvenile spouses can neither afford to take care of on their own, nor will they have the maturity to be successful parents. (And yes, I agree, children are a mitzvah but it's better to set up a stable household first into which the blessings can be poured.)

21

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:38 AM raykaufm Says:

Reply to #14  
oiber-chacham Says:

idiots like this guy,give judaism a black eye,any parent who would marry off their daughter under the age of consent which is 18,should be given a long prison sentence for child abuse,and the idiot who married her,should be locked up for statutory rape

The "age of consent" is not a a universal reality. It is whatever age local authority or custom says it is. In the U.S., the age of consent varies from state to state from as low as 14 years for a girl and 16 for a boy (Ok, partial consent. Marriage at 14 is legal with parental consent) to 18 years for both.

Having clarified that, I agree with poster #12 and others who correctly point out that lowering the mariage age of poor people to alleviate poverty is breathtakingly absurd. Whenever we Jews try to congratulate ourselves on our intellect, we should also reflect on the incredibly stupid among us.

22

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:45 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
IpchaMistabre Says:

According to the Shulchan Aruch, Even Huezer Siman Alef Sief Gimel, the Mitzve Min Hamuvchar is to get married by the age of 13. If boys would be married at a young age, they would be prevented from committing terrible sins that are unfortunately committed by most teenagers. Of course there are those who stick their head in the sand and deny it, but lets not fool ourselves. I hope parents would come to their senses and marry off their childred at the youngest age possible.

Clearly you are from the village of Chelm. At the time that the Shulchan Aruch was written the average life span was about about 35 years old. If you are suggesting that boys today get married at 13, then I think you need to head to the nearest psychiatrist for treatment.

23

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:46 AM IpchaMistabre Says:

Reply to #15  
bubii Says:

marrying at an early age is ok if you can support youreself but we know most cannot even in the animal kingdom they dont have offsprings until they have enough food to feed them its a kal vehoimer that humans are much more intelligent and refrain until they can supprt a family so #11 youre writing is nonsensical you write without thinking it through without seihel just to write di shoite vus di bist

We have a Torah and Shulchan Aruch. We should not be smarter then the Eibershter.

24

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:54 AM Anonymous Says:

The Rabbi was quoted as saying that the girls can be a burden to the household. Children a burden? I thought that frum people considered children a Brocha, a treasure from Hashem? Learn something everyday.

25

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:56 AM Anonymous Says:

I am no one to speak for the small enclaves of charedi jews and how they live their lives. If they lower the age, fine. Its their community.

26

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:02 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
IpchaMistabre Says:

According to the Shulchan Aruch, Even Huezer Siman Alef Sief Gimel, the Mitzve Min Hamuvchar is to get married by the age of 13. If boys would be married at a young age, they would be prevented from committing terrible sins that are unfortunately committed by most teenagers. Of course there are those who stick their head in the sand and deny it, but lets not fool ourselves. I hope parents would come to their senses and marry off their childred at the youngest age possible.

Sure, lets marry them at 13, because we all know that 13 year olds make the best decisions! I wonder why we have teens at risk? Is it because they are mature and think before they act? Do you think getting married at 13 will prevent teens at risk or increase it but now with a wife and kid?

Please do not quote the Shulchan Aruch or others when they are not living in this generation. What they wrote might apply to them, but not us. if you think otherwise, then you should "take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it" to heal your flesh (Gittin 69a).
You should also NEVER sleep alome because Rabbi Hanina forbids men to sleep alone in a house at night lest they fall prey to Lilith (Shabbat 151b).

Do I need to continue?

27

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:04 AM anon1m0us Says:

Reply to #23  
IpchaMistabre Says:

We have a Torah and Shulchan Aruch. We should not be smarter then the Eibershter.

Then let the Eibershter give a bas kol and tell the masses to marry at a young age. Until then, according to Yeshiva the Eibishter is money and if you can not afford to get married and have kids, then don't!

28

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:04 AM mj00056 Says:

Reply to #21  
raykaufm Says:

The "age of consent" is not a a universal reality. It is whatever age local authority or custom says it is. In the U.S., the age of consent varies from state to state from as low as 14 years for a girl and 16 for a boy (Ok, partial consent. Marriage at 14 is legal with parental consent) to 18 years for both.

Having clarified that, I agree with poster #12 and others who correctly point out that lowering the mariage age of poor people to alleviate poverty is breathtakingly absurd. Whenever we Jews try to congratulate ourselves on our intellect, we should also reflect on the incredibly stupid among us.

You can't have a different age for "poor' and one for "rich"-what is the cut-off $$ ?

29

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:09 AM jonkamm623 Says:

The halacha is like the shulchan aruch. And if you say people lived only till 35 then.your nuts.and to all you atheists who worry about supporting the babies,move to china and only have 2 babies to save money

30

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:13 AM mirrer Says:

Reply to #11  
IpchaMistabre Says:

According to the Shulchan Aruch, Even Huezer Siman Alef Sief Gimel, the Mitzve Min Hamuvchar is to get married by the age of 13. If boys would be married at a young age, they would be prevented from committing terrible sins that are unfortunately committed by most teenagers. Of course there are those who stick their head in the sand and deny it, but lets not fool ourselves. I hope parents would come to their senses and marry off their childred at the youngest age possible.

Two words to your stupid post; 'mir yeshiva'.
I think reb leizer yudel and reb yeruchem knew that seif in shulchan aruch. No?

31

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:15 AM Butterfly Says:

What happens when the young married women grows up and realizes that she wants an education and a job and other things as other women do OUTSIDE the home?? Women mature faster than men!! It is common knowledge!! What happens then?? To the husband, kids?? She is not going to be happy scrubbing and washing floors all day every day and changing diapers and being a cook. She will want more from life. She probably will find it if she has no education she will look for it!! You cannot keep her in the dark for long!! I hope VIN posts this!

32

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:36 AM Kanaim Says:

Reply to #31  
Butterfly Says:

What happens when the young married women grows up and realizes that she wants an education and a job and other things as other women do OUTSIDE the home?? Women mature faster than men!! It is common knowledge!! What happens then?? To the husband, kids?? She is not going to be happy scrubbing and washing floors all day every day and changing diapers and being a cook. She will want more from life. She probably will find it if she has no education she will look for it!! You cannot keep her in the dark for long!! I hope VIN posts this!

Who cares what she wants? Since when do we live our lives according to what WE want? We do what Hashem wants, period. Everything went into the toilet when women started leaving the homes.

33

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
boro parker Says:

R u jewish by any chance?? You don't believe that its a mitzva to have as many children possible??

No. Not when u don't know how ur gonna support them and will end up having to beg for money casue u have 20 kids. Were the mitzva in that exactly.

34

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:17 AM admirer Says:

Reply to #19  
jewishmother Says:

The full article says that early marriage will stop rape and keep young people from hanging out at clubs. Problem: Young people who are prone to rape and want to hang out at clubs are too immature for marriage!

Good one!!!!! Plus breslov and vizhnitz girls don't hang out at clubs......I hope!

35

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:17 AM Anonymous Says:

I can't beleive the idiocy of this article. Maybe a better approach to their finacial difficulty is getting a heter from a rav so they don't have the burden of too many mouths to feed. Anyone with their head in the real world knows that a married man or women does not gaurentee responsible behavior.

36

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
jonkamm623 Says:

The halacha is like the shulchan aruch. And if you say people lived only till 35 then.your nuts.and to all you atheists who worry about supporting the babies,move to china and only have 2 babies to save money

Just proves the point that the one that supports this are immature themselves. No ones saying to have 2 kids. Just don't have as many as u cud so it comes to u having to take other peoples money to feed ur kids. Ur response is that of a 13 year old. Perfectly ready for marriage apparently.

38

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
mj00056 Says:

You can't have a different age for "poor' and one for "rich"-what is the cut-off $$ ?

When 2 ADULTS can make a mature decision that they have enough money to support the kid they are bringing on to this world. Nothing to do with rich or poor. That's the point.

39

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:34 AM Queenbee Says:

Reply to #24  
Anonymous Says:

The Rabbi was quoted as saying that the girls can be a burden to the household. Children a burden? I thought that frum people considered children a Brocha, a treasure from Hashem? Learn something everyday.

I agree. I was horrified to read that part. Seems like out of the Pakistani pages.
I don't understand his reasoning. If he considers kids a burden then why does he recommend bringing even more kids in the picture?

40

 Jan 18, 2011 at 10:54 AM Aryeh Says:

The idea of kids being 'kids' and 'childhood' is a goyishe, Victorian idea. None of the naysayers are part of a community where this arrangement would function, so I understand, but this is a very good idea for everyone concerned, and for the Jewish People as a whole.

41

 Jan 18, 2011 at 11:02 AM Anonymous Says:

Lets recap recent articles and laws trying to be passed in Israel. First article claims women are a distraction for male drivers, therefore, women should not be allowed to drive. Next article written was about a women sent to jail for wanting the Kosel to be available to all women for davening. Now an ariticle refering to our daughters as "burdens" and to marry them off at 13. Im not a supporter of womens lib, but I am very worried about the future of women in Israel. What are they trying to do and what message are they trying to give?

42

 Jan 18, 2011 at 11:02 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
Butterfly Says:

What happens when the young married women grows up and realizes that she wants an education and a job and other things as other women do OUTSIDE the home?? Women mature faster than men!! It is common knowledge!! What happens then?? To the husband, kids?? She is not going to be happy scrubbing and washing floors all day every day and changing diapers and being a cook. She will want more from life. She probably will find it if she has no education she will look for it!! You cannot keep her in the dark for long!! I hope VIN posts this!

Well said. Furthermore, once these young teens are married and faced with real life responsibilities, many will resent having been married off so young and robbed of thier youth. I do not see the rush!!! Let them grow up!

43

 Jan 18, 2011 at 11:13 AM mewhoze Says:

i dont think 15-16 year olds are mature and marrying them off so as not to be a burden to her parents is ludicrous.
all this casues is that when she will be 17 she will already have a child or two and then there is a bigger burden financially.

44

 Jan 18, 2011 at 11:18 AM Anonymous Says:

What a bunch of baloney.

45

 Jan 18, 2011 at 11:19 AM Barry521 Says:

Better they should raise the age,and a girl find a husband who is willing to work and provide for his family, rathr than to live a life of schnoring.
The first question a girl should aask is what, and how do you plan to make a living. R U going to COLLEGE, and what is your goal in life?
Find a husband who will have a future, or at least try to make something of himself, and be honest, forthright, and have an even temperment. Come from a good home, and look at the parents, the brothers, sisters, and his family background.
How does the Father treat his wife, his work ethics, etcd..

46

 Jan 18, 2011 at 11:20 AM DavidMoshe Says:

Reply to #23  
IpchaMistabre Says:

We have a Torah and Shulchan Aruch. We should not be smarter then the Eibershter.

We're not in any danger of that. Doesn't mean we should go out of our way to be imbeciles, though.

47

 Jan 18, 2011 at 11:21 AM anon1m0us Says:

Reply to #29  
jonkamm623 Says:

The halacha is like the shulchan aruch. And if you say people lived only till 35 then.your nuts.and to all you atheists who worry about supporting the babies,move to china and only have 2 babies to save money

Actually, you are nuts and an atheist! See how easy it is to call people names who you disagree with?

During the 16th Century, whehn R' Yosef Karo lived, the Average life expectancy at birth was only 35. (So only half of all people born lived to be 35). However many of the people born died while they were still children. Out of all people born between one third and one half died before the age of about 16. However if you could survive to your mid-teens you would probably live to your 50s or early 60s. Even in the 16th century some people did live to their 70s or 80s.

To argure otherwise is pure ignorance on your part.

48

 Jan 18, 2011 at 11:25 AM jmstnv Says:

Reply to #13  
boro parker Says:

R u jewish by any chance?? You don't believe that its a mitzva to have as many children possible??

where does it say that? if you going to say paru urivu,then you should not stop and have as many children as possible.

49

 Jan 18, 2011 at 11:26 AM UseYourHead Says:

The Torah law is rather clear - getting married young is considered ideal. As young as 13 for a boy, and as young as 12 (or even younger, in theory) for a girl. Obviously, in today's day and age this is not usually feasible (never mind that it is illegal in most jurisdictions), but to dismiss someone out of hand for suggesting that boys and girls marry in their mid-teens is contrary to the Torah. Instead of trying to squeeze your worldview into the Torah, how about reconsidering your own misconceptions? A 25-year-old is not fundamentally more suited for marriage than is a 15-year-old.

50

 Jan 18, 2011 at 11:44 AM Butterfly Says:

To #32 With the economy now in all countries,you have to rely on yourself to bring in the money!! You cannot rely ion parents and grandparents -- FACE IT!! People lost a lot of money in 2008 and 2009 and now people are tightening their belts. States do not want to give handouts unless they MUST!! It is about time some of these young men took responsibility -- if they know the meaning of the word. Some have never gone shopping and do not realize how much prices have gone up on just stapes alone!! When you start a family the money literally flies out!! They need educations and JOBS!! I hope VIN posts this!!

51

 Jan 18, 2011 at 11:58 AM Channie Says:

Reply to #32  
Kanaim Says:

Who cares what she wants? Since when do we live our lives according to what WE want? We do what Hashem wants, period. Everything went into the toilet when women started leaving the homes.

I guess some successful women doing what Hashem wants and what they want must've hurt your ego.
There's a place called Pakistan where your ideology fits right in. I wouldn't be so proud of it though given the quality of life there.

52

 Jan 18, 2011 at 12:00 PM Anonymous Says:

To #49, Use YourHead
I wish you had used your head when you made the idiotic statement that, "A 25 year old is not fundamentally more suited for marraige than a 15 year old'

53

 Jan 18, 2011 at 12:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
boro parker Says:

R u jewish by any chance?? You don't believe that its a mitzva to have as many children possible??

The Mishna, Yevamot 61b, records a dispute between Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel regarding the fulfillment of the mitzvah. Beit Shammai are of the opinion that one is in fulfillment of the mitzvah if one bears two boys. Beit Hillel are of the opinion that one is in fulfillment of the mitzvah by bearing a boy and a girl. While Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 1:5, clearly states that one is not in fulfillment of the mitzvah until one bears a boy and a girl.

54

 Jan 18, 2011 at 12:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #49  
UseYourHead Says:

The Torah law is rather clear - getting married young is considered ideal. As young as 13 for a boy, and as young as 12 (or even younger, in theory) for a girl. Obviously, in today's day and age this is not usually feasible (never mind that it is illegal in most jurisdictions), but to dismiss someone out of hand for suggesting that boys and girls marry in their mid-teens is contrary to the Torah. Instead of trying to squeeze your worldview into the Torah, how about reconsidering your own misconceptions? A 25-year-old is not fundamentally more suited for marriage than is a 15-year-old.

A 12 to 15 year old girl has much higher risk of miscarriage, premature births or death during childbirth then does a 25 year old. If you think there's no difference i the maturity of a 15 year old or a 25 year old, you need to have your head examined.

So what makes a 15 year old girl who doesn't work or study a burden while a 20 year old man who's a benchwarmer in a kollel, and does nothing all day, anything more?

55

 Jan 18, 2011 at 12:24 PM Anonymous Says:

It is very disheartening to read articles like this and painful to read comments from people supporting these foolish ideals and especially to do so in the name of Torah. As one comment here points out he is attributing sickening values to the Torah that even people without the benefit of the values of the Torah have made illegal.

I can't begin to fathom what type of a person would imagine that in the present day and age it would be healthy or normal for a boy or girl to be Wed and the age of 13. 15 is sickening enough but 13!

The proposal comes from the "Chairman of the Lobby for Jewish Values Ofer Cohen" if these are Jewish values, then we have become a diseased people.

I became a Baal Teshuvah some 30 years ago. The orthodox Judaism that I saw and became a part of, is slowly eroding and being taken over by sects of extreme fanatics who have developed cult like groups who are making a claim to be representative of Judaism.

As much as I would hate to have to take the side of secular Jews and particular in Israel, the movement among them to rid the face of Judaism from these fanatics in quite appealing.

56

 Jan 18, 2011 at 12:31 PM Rimon Says:

Reply to #32  
Kanaim Says:

Who cares what she wants? Since when do we live our lives according to what WE want? We do what Hashem wants, period. Everything went into the toilet when women started leaving the homes.

You mean like Devora about whom we read this week?

57

 Jan 18, 2011 at 12:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Parents of large families who cannot financially support all their children would be able to marry off their daughter earlier so that she can move into her husband’s house,” he added.

Well, that certainly sounds like a very coherent reason to lower the marriage age!

58

 Jan 18, 2011 at 12:43 PM BinderDundat Says:

all I can say is SIGH. for a nation thats supposed to be intelligent, we have some very stupid people and leaders. for all of you who agree with this nonsense, just marry the kid off right after his upsherin. face it, this is not the alte heim. the divorce rate is already thru the roof, and this will just cause more and more, causing more kids to become "leibedike yesomim". I can positively say that anyone that agrees with this is probably totally lack of any education.

59

 Jan 18, 2011 at 12:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
Anonymous Says:

Lets recap recent articles and laws trying to be passed in Israel. First article claims women are a distraction for male drivers, therefore, women should not be allowed to drive. Next article written was about a women sent to jail for wanting the Kosel to be available to all women for davening. Now an ariticle refering to our daughters as "burdens" and to marry them off at 13. Im not a supporter of womens lib, but I am very worried about the future of women in Israel. What are they trying to do and what message are they trying to give?

I could not agree with you more!!! These laws are clearly not designed with a woman's best interest at heart!

60

 Jan 18, 2011 at 01:01 PM mo613 Says:

lower?anyone whose been married for over 25 yrs would suggest hiring it to 30imagine how much less solicitation there would be for chanusas kalh as just one of many benefits

61

 Jan 18, 2011 at 01:12 PM whateverworks Says:

What everyone seems to forget that back in the days when a boy or a girl reached 12 -13 years old they helped their parents on the farm or whatever the parents were busy with. The boys did not sit all day learning torah as much as we would love to dilute ourself into saying so. The girls helped at home and the boys in the farm. There was no mortgage, rent, tution, phone, electric, gas, water or grocery bills to name a few. You grew it, you ate it, you lived it and until we go back to that system of life, then yes a boy and girl should have some sort of an idea how they will manage all that before they or their parents take on a spouse for them. Having more poor families to feed when we cant manage the ones out there already does no one a favor especially the 13 & 15 year old teens!!!!!!

62

 Jan 18, 2011 at 01:57 PM sane Says:

Reply to #49  
UseYourHead Says:

The Torah law is rather clear - getting married young is considered ideal. As young as 13 for a boy, and as young as 12 (or even younger, in theory) for a girl. Obviously, in today's day and age this is not usually feasible (never mind that it is illegal in most jurisdictions), but to dismiss someone out of hand for suggesting that boys and girls marry in their mid-teens is contrary to the Torah. Instead of trying to squeeze your worldview into the Torah, how about reconsidering your own misconceptions? A 25-year-old is not fundamentally more suited for marriage than is a 15-year-old.

Polygamy is also permitted in the Torah and the Cherem Rabbeinu Gershon has expired. Given the shidduch crisis, perhaps one guy should marry at least two girls.

63

 Jan 18, 2011 at 02:14 PM BrachaDe Says:

This is rape. Period. anyone who has any other opinion, thinks it's okay for a child to copulate and reproduce has an attraction towards children. It is not better for a child to get married so she not get "exposed" to modern culture. She can spend this time learning a trade, a craft, a hobby...
As for Torah, too many frum men are addicted to a secular sexual ideology, back then they were not. It cannot be compared.
Are frum people so worried about modern culture, that they would subject their child to rape and a forced marriage? I agree with reply 24# this is a Muslim ideology.

64

 Jan 18, 2011 at 02:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #61  
whateverworks Says:

What everyone seems to forget that back in the days when a boy or a girl reached 12 -13 years old they helped their parents on the farm or whatever the parents were busy with. The boys did not sit all day learning torah as much as we would love to dilute ourself into saying so. The girls helped at home and the boys in the farm. There was no mortgage, rent, tution, phone, electric, gas, water or grocery bills to name a few. You grew it, you ate it, you lived it and until we go back to that system of life, then yes a boy and girl should have some sort of an idea how they will manage all that before they or their parents take on a spouse for them. Having more poor families to feed when we cant manage the ones out there already does no one a favor especially the 13 & 15 year old teens!!!!!!

In 1939 my father was 9 years old and working before and after school. He owned his own business at age 16. Those were different times folks. He also had no thoughts of marriage until he could sustain a family.

65

 Jan 18, 2011 at 02:44 PM DavidMoshe Says:

Reply to #40  
Aryeh Says:

The idea of kids being 'kids' and 'childhood' is a goyishe, Victorian idea. None of the naysayers are part of a community where this arrangement would function, so I understand, but this is a very good idea for everyone concerned, and for the Jewish People as a whole.

No, the idea of kids being "kids" and having a "childhood" is a perfectly normal aspect of a normal human being's development. Sorry about your childhood (and your kids).

66

 Jan 18, 2011 at 03:25 PM BinderDundat Says:

Reply to #64  
Anonymous Says:

In 1939 my father was 9 years old and working before and after school. He owned his own business at age 16. Those were different times folks. He also had no thoughts of marriage until he could sustain a family.

"He also had no thoughts of marriage until he could sustain a family. ”
I challenge anyone to get one, just one, of todays gedolai hador to agree to this concept. to have a parnassa BEFORE you get married?? they'd laugh at you so hard, tears would come out. do you have any idea how many boys are in lakewood simply because they are afraid they wont make a shidduch? they dont want to be there, but feel they have to or no girl will consider them.

67

 Jan 18, 2011 at 03:42 PM Rachel W. Says:

So what's better for the chareidi girl -- to help her mother out with the younger children in the house or to leave and become a wife and mother herself?
Let's be real: talk of "avoiding sin" is a reference to the boys. Sometimes to our embarrassment we display a very naive mindset. Never mind that the 15-year old's child-wife will carry the brunt of the burden (of marriage and all it entails) both physically and emotionally and will probably want to run away from home by the time her third child is due to arrive, if she doesn't suffer a breakdown beforehand.
I've known mature 16-year olds to marry, but most are much too immature to take on such responsibilities.

68

 Jan 18, 2011 at 04:01 PM anon1m0us Says:

Reply to #66  
BinderDundat Says:

"He also had no thoughts of marriage until he could sustain a family. ”
I challenge anyone to get one, just one, of todays gedolai hador to agree to this concept. to have a parnassa BEFORE you get married?? they'd laugh at you so hard, tears would come out. do you have any idea how many boys are in lakewood simply because they are afraid they wont make a shidduch? they dont want to be there, but feel they have to or no girl will consider them.

My father, and I am in my low 30's, did not allow me to date until I could afford a family! The Rosh Yeshivous who are laughing about this concept are the same ones crying because they cannot afford to run the yeshiva and have former students who are not able to support the yeshiva since they have no parnaasah. Laugh, laugh all you want, but just because today's Rosh Yeshivous can not understand the concept of honest work and learning does not refute the fact that every tannah and ammorah had jobs in the times of the Gemorah. Do the Rosh Yeshivous laugh at Hillel or Shammai? Hillel was a woodcutter and Shammai was a builder. How Hillel and Shammai must have been laughing at the concept of "parents supporting" versus having honest work! I would rather be with Hillel and Shammai than today's Rosh Yeshivous!

69

 Jan 18, 2011 at 05:09 PM MRW-S Says:

What??? If children are a burden then don't have any. Or at least dont have too many. This is not a solution. It is a cycle then will never end. They will be married off at a crazy young age, they will have no education. Then they will have a lot of kids, then not have enough to support their own children. So they will marry them off at a young age as well, and so on and so forth. Genius!! How about, everyone getting a good education, stop being lazy and make something of yourselves so you dont become a beggar and feel sorry for yourself.

70

 Jan 18, 2011 at 07:17 PM FredE Says:

Child abuse takes many forms. This is yet another. IY"H the state will have more sense then to entertain such a notion. Someone has to protect the kids.

71

 Jan 18, 2011 at 09:43 PM greatsouthbay Says:

Why marry at 15? Invoke kedushah ketana, and get them out of the house at 3!

72

 Jan 19, 2011 at 12:21 PM illiterates! Says:

Reply to #7  
YidelfromBP Says:

THIS IS NONE SENSE!!
They will not get educated after marriage so they can find a descend paying job! All they will do is have children every year starting from age 15-16 instead of 18-19. at age 32 they will be out here in the US collecting for hachnuses Kalah for a father of 15-16 children (and couple of more to come...) And of course all of them we will have to help them buy houses!!!
Let them make a new law that no one should get married only with some degree so they have some knowledge and responsibility before they start building a jewish home! How is that sound? Ha?

apparently you did not get an education before or after marriage.

aren't you ashamed of your illiteracy? How do you expect anyone to take your comments seriously when you write and spell at a second-grade level?

You embarrass all of us!

73

 Jan 19, 2011 at 03:21 PM mnmys1987 Says:

We may disagree with him, but what this Rabbi is saying has a source in Torah.

Halachikly speaking, the obligation to marry begins at 13, but because it is necessary to study before marriage, the Gemarah advices to wait 18 years to marry. But if your Yetzer Hara is strong, it's better to marry before 18. To marry earlier may be a segulah against many aveiros that are committed in the frum community. I know many frum people (included my parents) who married earlier and with good assistance, they lived a beautiful and happy marriage. There are of course some exceptions, This is how our parents, grandparents, grand-grandparents got married. To wait too late before marrying is a chiddush of our generation, People in our generation want to make us believe that marrying late was always the norm.

74

 Jan 20, 2011 at 11:42 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #73  
mnmys1987 Says:

We may disagree with him, but what this Rabbi is saying has a source in Torah.

Halachikly speaking, the obligation to marry begins at 13, but because it is necessary to study before marriage, the Gemarah advices to wait 18 years to marry. But if your Yetzer Hara is strong, it's better to marry before 18. To marry earlier may be a segulah against many aveiros that are committed in the frum community. I know many frum people (included my parents) who married earlier and with good assistance, they lived a beautiful and happy marriage. There are of course some exceptions, This is how our parents, grandparents, grand-grandparents got married. To wait too late before marrying is a chiddush of our generation, People in our generation want to make us believe that marrying late was always the norm.

thanks, this rabbi needs your support, because if people don't pay attention to him, your telling them to will change things.

75

 Jan 21, 2011 at 08:07 AM mnmys1987 Says:

Reply to #14  
oiber-chacham Says:

idiots like this guy,give judaism a black eye,any parent who would marry off their daughter under the age of consent which is 18,should be given a long prison sentence for child abuse,and the idiot who married her,should be locked up for statutory rape

So Rivkah Imeinu and many other Jewish figures in the Tenach should be put in prison? People are mistakenly thinking that in the whole Jewish history, people married off their daughters at 18, while the truth is that marrying off your daughters at 18 or later is a chidush of our generation. It has never been like that in previous generations. Rebbe Nachman, for instance, was married at 13 years old, and no, he didn't have 20 children!!! So stop with that double paranoia: 1) marrying at 18 is a chidush of our time, 2) getting married earlier does not mean you will have 20 children. Look at the tzadikim of the previous generations who married before 18. NONE of them did have 20 children.

Concerning the Lubavitcher Rebbe, it is known that he married late (he was 27 years old when he married the Rebbetzin Chayah Mushka), but they were engaged for many years before. The delay was due to the persecution of the communist and the beginning of the war. Without it, the Rebbe would have married earlier too.

So, although we can disagree with that rabbi, what he said was not contrary to the Torah, quite the opposite. People who think that marrying late is the standard in Judaism are wrong!

76

 Jan 21, 2011 at 10:11 AM delusional people Says:

So you all think that getting married and being allowed to have children before you are even allowed to drive is okay? That you don't yet qualify for a job or to rent an apartment of your own, haven't graduated school yet, but to make the most important decision of your lives at that age is all right?

But you criticize horribly the gentile world for all the teenage/underage mothers out there, right?

You people are delusional and borderline insane, if not far over the border already!

77

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