Warsaw – Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski on Thursday rebuffed US criticism about the restitution of Jewish property seized after World War II, saying that Americans should have put their concerns into action during the war.
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“If the United States wanted to do something for Polish Jews, then a good moment would have been 1943-44, when most of them were still living and when Poland … pleaded for that,” Sikorski told Polish Radio. “Now this intervention is somewhat delayed.”
The US could have bombed the railroad tracks that carried prisoners to the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp, Sikorski said.
The US government said Wednesday it was disappointed that Poland had suspended work on a law that would compensate property owners, many of them Jewish, whose assets were confiscated during Communist rule.
Poland’s Treasury Ministry said last week it had finished work on the draft law, but that it could not be adopted now because of the global financial crisis, the ministry said.
The bill would reimburse victims for some 15 to 20 per cent of the current value of their lost property.
There are still some 89,000 claims outstanding, estimated in 2008 to be valued at about 48 billion dollars, local media reported.
this is called passing the buck. if the polish people would not have colaberated , more jews would be alive today
Sikorsky is a sanctimonius p***k! The US became capable of bombing Auschwitz is 1944, when it built bases in Italy within bombing range. The extermination of Polish Jewry began in 1942, and nearly all Polish Jews were killed by the summer of 1943.
For the U.S. to criticize anyone about anything related to the holocaust is hypocritical!
The US had opportunities to save Jews, but chose not to.
A personal opinion:
Japan let all Jews into Japanese controlled Shanghai despite pressure by their allies, the Germans, and was the only country in the world to do so. Many thousands of Jews were saved by this. Let us hope that in zchus of what the Japanese did during WWII that they are saved from this nuclear catastrophe.
PS The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was enough punishment for the brutality with which the Japanese treated the Chinese when they captured Chinese territory.
What does one expect form the Poles? Even when Jews escaped from concentration camps in Poland (Sobibor and Treblinka), they were set attacked by the local Polish populace, who were hostile or indifferent to them.
Actually, the Polish Home Army refused to give the Jewish fighting Organization in the Warsaw Ghetto and significant arms. The few paltry weapons they did supply – some pistols, were at exorbitant prices. Moreover, Jews who escaped were generally turned in by the Poles for a few zlotys.
To #3- Even after Hiroshima and Nagasaki were obliterated, the Japanese refused to surrender for a week, and were still killing and abusing our POWs (as well as allied POWs), during that period. There was deep division within policymakers in Japan, and there were still some hotheads who wanted to attack the American fleet, even after the Emperor ordered Japan to lay down its arms. It is too bad that there wasn’t the equivalent of a Simon Weisenthal in Japan, as many Japanese war criminals escaped punishment, for various atrocities, as well as genocide. It was only six months ago, that the Japanese Foreign Minister and an aide to the Japanese Prime Minister apologized in person to a Jewish-American POW (held for three and a half years), and a survivior of the Bataan Death March, Dr. Lester I. Tenney, now age 90. Incidentally, in his book, Dr. Tenney stated that Jewish POWs were beaten more by the Japanese, when their religion was revealed.
Polish were as bad as the nazis
FDR was an anti-semite and it was first class at that. He could have save thousands
However it is History what is going on today
Poland is still a bed of anti-semitism
America has a president who is anti-semite no matter what he or the liberal say
Look at his policies towards Israel Look at the liberal policies toward Israel
Nothing new under the sun
Sorry, GB, that should have been “too coarse.”
GB – What was wrong with my choice of adjective? You don’t like “sanctimonius?”
BTW, the article doesn’t mention the more interesting point – namely that Sikorski reminded Americans that the communist government of Poland paid several tens of million dollars to the US in the sixties and that this money was supposed to represent a settlement for all claims American citizens would have against Poland.
I don’t know the details of that and how much sense it makes legally, but that would have been a more interesting point to investigate.
Frater: Poland didn’t have much of a choice about standing up to the Germans. Before the war, the Soviets offered them a defense treaty. They declined saying they’d rather take their chances with the Germans. Only then did the Soviets make a nonagression pact with Germany, (This has been documented in William Manchester’s “The Last Lion” Volume 2. After the war, one of the first things the Polish Sejm did was to adopt a resolution thanking the Germans for solving Poland’s Jewish problem.l (Documented in Jan Karski’s “Fear.”) As for hiding the fact that Poles saved Jews, it’s more then rumor. The Jews who were saved said as much, and Karski has documented it as well. As far as the 3 million Polish goyim killed by the Nazis, why should care any more about them than the surviving Polish goyim cared about the 3 million Polish Jews killed by the Nazis?
Poland could have given Germany the “corridor”. You mistake Jan Karski and Jan Gross who is the author of “Fear”. I read the book. I don’t remember the “resolution” issue well, but I read somewhere that this was never “adopted”. Some loony proposed it and he was quickly silenced. That’s a far cry from Polish Sejm “adopting” the resolution. Gross alleged that helpers were afraid but there was not much research about how wide-spread this attitude was and what were the motives (as I mentioned it could have been the fear of becoming the target for robbers). Gross found one or two examples and made generalizations. And when it comes to caring, the question may be returned indefinitely. If you don’t care why should we care? And who are you to make such harsh judgments about people? Poles who helped Jews risked their lives. You really think that it’s all black and white and that if a Pole didn’t have the courage, or the opportunity, or the spirit of sacrifice (because it endangered his family as well) to do that, then he deserves your “coarse language”?!
Let me rephrase the question more directly. If a group of non-Jews was persecuted in New York, and you saw posters proclaiming that the punishment for helping the members of this group is death, would you take the risk?
After some research…he story of the “resolution” is a good example of how those stories get distorted. First, Gross wasn’t writing about the Sejm, he was writing about delegates to the caucus of the Polish Peasant Party. Second, I’m not sure he wrote it was “passed”. Gross mentioned “tumultuous applause”. NYT reviewer said it “passed”, but I’m not certain that’s what Gross actually wrote. Third, some Polish sources point out that the source of this information is an anonymous informer who infiltrated the caucus on the orders of the Communist authorities (who didn’t like the Peasant Party) – hardly an objective source of information. There is apparently no other record of this event. So in short, you gave a distorted account of a story that was dubious to begin with and attributed it to a wrong author.
” Gross alleged that helpers were afraid but there was not much research about how wide-spread this attitude was and what were the motives (as I mentioned it could have been the fear of becoming the target for robbers). Gross found one or two examples and made generalizations” There were far more than one or two cases, and his “generalizations” have far more validity than your speculations about robbers.
You ask that if I don’t care, why should you? The Poles were not merely apathetic bystanders. They were active supporters, during the war and after. There were 200,000 Polish Jews who survived the war and returned to Poland. Within 3 years, 85% of them had left. Why? Because they were not safe from their Polish neighbors.
You ask would I take the risk to help members of a group targeted for death. I don’t know. But I do know that I would not inform on those who did (common enough in Poland to make the risk greater) nor I would I join in the killings (as was done frequently enough in Poland). And I woiuld go plundering the graves of the dead (as Poles did in Treblinka) to pull gold from the teeth of corpses.
I was looking over Frater’s comment again. He writes “Poland could have given Germany the corridor.” I presume that this is in answer to my comment that Poland did not have much choice standing up to the Germans. Does Frater really think that had Poland given Germany the corridor she would have been left in peace? Again, go read Manchester’s “The Last Lion” Volume 2. For 24 hours, the British tried to give Hitler another Munich agreement, offering them the corridor and then some. Hitler turned down the peace, and only then did Britain and France declare war.
One can marvel at the extent the Poles resisted the Nazis. One can admire the 300,000 or so Poles who joined the underground and fought them. However, those same heroic Poles, faced with the obvious persecution of a group comprising 10% of their national population, chose to join in that persecution. The Polish underground, who faced a death sentence no matter what they did, chose to kill Jews trying to hide in the forests.
Fear of robbery in post-war Poland is not a speculation, it’s a fact. And what’s “common” or “frequently”? The trouble is that those words are tossed around without quantifying them. How many Poles do you think “joined in the killings”?
As for the risk, in 10# you basically said that either Poles saved Jews or they deserve condemnation. No middle ground, no thought for people who didn’t save but didn’t hurt. I hope you would be willing to have the same standard applied to you.
I will, for the time being, admit to being wrong about the Sejm. However, the attitude was still prevalent in postwar Poland. Poles were attacking the Jewish survivors, which is why 85% left within five years after the war. Before the Kielce pogrom, Cardina Hlond was asked to condemn attacks on Jews and accusations of ritual murder. He declined to do so. After the Kielce pogrom, one bishop, the bishop of Czestochowa, condemned the attack and the antisemitism that brought it forth, whereupon Poland’s remaining 10 bishops rebuked the one for speaking up.
“Fear of robbery in Pland is not a speculation, it’s a fact.” Gross mentions it as a secondary reason. However, Frater refuses to acknowledge the anti-Semitic sentiment behind the fear of robbery. It was the assumption of the populace that those Poles who saved Jews did it only for money, and that no one would save Jews because it was the human thing to do. Frater also accuses me of saying that “..that either Poles saved Jews or they deserve condemnation. No middle ground, no thought for people who didn’t save but didn’t hurt.” In Poland, those in “the middle ground” cheered the Germans on. There sentiments were completely behind the killing of Jews, a phenomenon that showed itself in full force after the war when the remnants of Polish Jewry tried to return and live among their gentile countlrymen. There were very few who were in any sort of middle ground. If they didn’t hurt, they suported those who did. This stands in vast contrast to the Serbs, who neither helped nor hindered the Germans (they were too busy avoiding the Ustachi to help or hurt), the Greeks who simply stood by and watched the deportations, or the Bulgarians iwho did nothing to help the Germans
I appreciate you mentioning heroic Polish resistance. There were scandalous acts of anti-Semitism in post-war Poland. But the starting point for the discussion is that you implied that all Poles should be condemned unless it is proven that they saved Jews. This is what I strongly opposed. It is the proven perpetrators that should be condemned.
Same for the resistance. If a few committed crimes it doesn’t mean all 300,000 partisans should be accused. Paulsson described how a few Polish resistance members (among several tens of thousand) killed several Jews during the Warsaw Uprising in 1944. That was a war crime. But others rescued Jewish survivors from a Gestapo prison. Ringelblum describes the admiration of the Polish Underground press for the Ghetto fighters. Again, the picture is more complex and nuanced.
I think that even Gross doesn’t argue what you’re trying to argue…(In some ways he’s careful with his generalizations. He uses “common” “normal” “frequent” etc. but avoids “most” or “nearly all” which are more quantifiable).
I once read how a Jewish girl traveled in a crowded tramway in Warsaw during the occupation. Some anti-Semite recognized her and started shouting she is Jewish. She run away and managed to escape. Other Poles did not hinder her and didn’t try to catch her. The author (a Western Holocaust scholar) observed that if all Poles wanted to hurt Jews it would be difficult to find a crowd with only one anti-Semite. He gave other examples like that.
And I find it strange that you believe that Serbs were “too buy avoiding the Ustachi to help or hurt” but are unwilling to admit that Poles were equally busy avoiding Nazis.
Anyway, you seem determined to hate Poles “en masse” and I see it can’t be changed.
Frater:
The truth is that I don’t hate Poles “en masse.” Much of what I said was in anger. I do sympathize with those killed by both the Nazis and the Communists. However, you refuse to come to grips with the virulent Polish Jew-hatred that characterized the German occupation in WWII (hardly the only time in history, but the one we are discussing now.) Why do I admit the Serbs were too busy avoiding the Ustachi but I can’t say the same about the Poles? Because with all the terror, Poles were killing Jews on their own without any prompting from the Nazis. The Serbs were not. The Polish underground killed Jews when they found them hiding in the forests. The Serb underground did not. You would attribute Polish atrocities to a few renegades. The problem is that we see more evidence of “renegades” than others. And like it or not, Jews were not safe in Poland after the Nazis were defeated. That was not true in Serbia. It was nowhere near as much a problem in Hungary or Romania. And I could go on.
What set me off this time was Sikorsky’s comment that the US could have saved Polish Jews by bombing Auschwitz. US bombers were able to reach Auschwitz only in 1944 by which time 90% of Polish Jewry was slaughtered. It sets me off when people try to minimize the extent of Polish Jew hatred (admittedly they were not as bad as the Ukranians, Lithuanians, or Croations but bad enough) and then to plead Polish martyrdom and heroism as a defense. I wish we would stop trying to recover Jewish property stolen in WWII; I wish we would stop paying any attention to Poland at all. Unfortunately, too many of my co-religionists disagree.
You take certain conclusions for granted because they are the accepted truth in certain Jewish circles. But it’s often a kind of popular lore that has not been properly researched and debated. (It’s telling how in those discussions most arguments come from Gross’ books written after 2000 and how even he acknowledges many fundamental questions remain unanswered). And without massive evidence and scholarly agreement, no people will accept negative generalizations about their past. However, note that when it comes to concrete, verifiable events, such as the Jedwabne massacre, many Poles are willing to face the truth even if it’s painful. And even though most are probably irritated with Gross at this point, his every book is commented in all the Polish media.
So I understand how some Jews think what they think, but I’m not convinced and I have reasons why. I would much prefer Poland with all its Jewish population and I wished convicted perpetrators were punished, but there are things I don’t agree with.
BTW, it’s unrelated but Sikorski’s wife is an American Jew.
First of all. the most of all Jews lived in Poland (over 10% of the population of Poland) – why not in other countries? Maybe because compared to other countries it wasn’t so bad? If it would then I’m sure they would move out. Second thing, Poland was the only country where for helping Jews you were sentenced to death – why it wasn’t like that in e.g. France? Because in Poland you needed to force Poles to do it – in other countries it was done without any pressure from Nazis – other countries were more than happy to do it. Someone mentioned that Polish Underground didn’t help during the uprising in the ghetto – that they didn’t gave them weapon etc. Polish Underground has had shortages of weapon – check how Warsaw uprising looked like – 5 guys with a one gun! One more thing – there were death sentences executed by Underground on people who collaborated with Nazis and gave out Jews to Nazis. The anti-semitism after the war was mainly because of collaboration of some Jews with Soviets. So if whole villages were sent to Syberia or shot in some forrest because of an order jewish officer in Soviet uniform don’t expect that anti-semitism will disapear.