Brooklyn, NY - Markowitz To Census: The Chasidim Alone Increased By 40,000 |
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News Source: The brooklyn Paper
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Flickr charles le brigandBrooklyn, NY - Borough leaders were slamming the US Census Bureau on Thursday after the agency claimed that Brooklyn grew by only 40,000 people over the past decade.
“It’s a mistake,” said Borough President Markowitz, pronouncing himself “flabbergasted” by the allegation that the borough grew by only 1.6 percent to 2,504,700.
“It is inconceivable that Brooklyn — the hottest borough in which to live, work and play — grew only a small percentage in the past decade,” said Markowitz. “If you just count the Hasidim from Williamsburg, the Satmar and the Lubavitch Hasidim in Crown Heights, you’ve got 40,000 increase right there over the last 10 years.”
Brooklyn’s population is up from 2.465 million in 2000, but well below 2.579 million that the Census Bureau projected in 2009.
And the federal bean counters claim that the entire city of New York only added about 166,000 people since 2000, for a total population of 8.175 million, although the city says it is likely 8.4 million.
If the numbers from the constitutionally mandated decennial count hold, the city will face long-term consequences.
New York State is expected to lose two congressional seats when districts are redrawn later this year — and political insiders believe that Brooklyn or Queens could lose one of them.
And federal and state funds to the city, which is tied to population, would likely diminish
As such, state Sen. Marty Golden (R–Bay Ridge) joined his fellow politicians in calling the Census count an “abomination,” an assessment that has become an once-a-decade ritual among urban lawmakers.
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“Literally billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars were expended on this failed effort,” said Golden. “All avenues, including legal action, need to be explored in order to correct this injustice.”
Then again, it could be worse — Queens apparently grew only 0.1 percent, or 1,300 people since 2000.
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Read Comments (35) — Post Yours »
1
Mar 25, 2011 at 10:22 AM MosheM Says:Report as Inappropriate
The census count just doesn't make sense. Period. BP had huge growth too
2
Mar 25, 2011 at 10:28 AM Babishka Says:Report as Inappropriate
How many Yidden declined to participate in the Census?
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Mar 25, 2011 at 10:31 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Its their own fault. We read last year here on VIN of many chassideshe households where they simply threw away the census forms and refused to open the doors to the enumerators who tried to get information so it serves them right. Some argued that it was against daas torah to participate and the real paranoid nutcases claimed the information would be used to "round up yidden" when things got really bad in the U.S.
The loss of federal grant funds because of the "undercount" will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The politicians can yell gevalt all they want but its too late to change things. Maybe its not too early to begin educating these yidden to cooperate in 2020.
4
Mar 25, 2011 at 10:34 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
was a supervisor for 2010 census. this is what the enumerators were up against. dishonesty.... people not trusting dept of agriculture. if people dont answer door for three visits a proxy can and WILL be used;therefore, the results can be off but only because wrong information was answered. i've been at homes and know i was given wrong info simply by observing how many cars are there. it was up to the resident to answer truthfully the simple question starting with how many people were living here prior to april 1, 2010..... now u lose representatives in gov't. the political lines are redrawn and gov't allocations are adjusted for the reported loss of residents. too bad.
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Mar 25, 2011 at 10:43 AM MrSmith Says:Report as Inappropriate
How will I or my mosdoses gain anything if I fill out the census. They dont ask what religion you are or where your children attend school. The extra money would go to the 10 Billion chinese that moved into BP. The school on Ft.Hamilton & 52 St. Was going to close down & be given to a moised. Now they build another building there & a new building on Ft.Hamilton & 62 St. thanks to the 10 billion bottle collector tax paying chinese
6
Mar 25, 2011 at 10:45 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
They don't want to be counted, and didn't participate. I don't want to hear Marty complain. Hey Marty we still don't want your ampitheater next to the shul.
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Mar 25, 2011 at 10:47 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ was a supervisor for 2010 census. this is what the enumerators were up against. dishonesty.... people not trusting dept of agriculture. if people dont answer door for three visits a proxy can and WILL be used;therefore, the results can be off but only because wrong information was answered. i've been at homes and know i was given wrong info simply by observing how many cars are there. it was up to the resident to answer truthfully the simple question starting with how many people were living here prior to april 1, 2010..... now u lose representatives in gov't. the political lines are redrawn and gov't allocations are adjusted for the reported loss of residents. too bad. ”
You confirmed exactly what I said in post no. 3. When the politicians from the heimeshe parts of the city come crying for more grant money for their constituents, they should be told that they "gave away" their entitlement to federal grant funds by no participating in the census (which is the basis for allocating many grant programs). Its time to hold people accountable for their actions. There is NO REASON whatsoever for not having taken actions last year to assure that every person in every heimeshe household was counted. These people fully understood that by refusing to participate they were foregoing federal funds since that point was made over and over and over again in the newspapers, media and census mailings.
8
Mar 25, 2011 at 11:20 AM Darek Says:Report as Inappropriate
Who needs federal grants?? Me and u will not see a penny of it anyhow, it will be divided between government contractors and politicians (kickbacks anybody?)
All this talk about the people will suffer the consequences is trash.
9
Mar 25, 2011 at 11:26 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Who needs federal grants?? Me and u will not see a penny of it anyhow, it will be divided between government contractors and politicians (kickbacks anybody?)
All this talk about the people will suffer the consequences is trash. ”
You are clearly misguided or simply dumb. We read here almost every week about cuts in federal grants going to tens of thousands of heimeshe families for rent subsidies, education for the disabled, school transportation, after-school day care, health clinics etc. Where do you think this money comes from?? Even after the recent cuts there are still tens of millions of dollars coming into the heimeshe neighborhoods. The point is we could have gotten more if these yidden would have proudly stood up and be counted in the census rather than simply ignoring their obligations.
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Mar 25, 2011 at 11:28 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Why is it that one cannot see the actual census until 72 years later? This means that next year, I can first see the 1940 census! Why can't we look at the census statistics sooner (i.e. 20 years)?
11
Mar 25, 2011 at 11:33 AM ShmuelG Says:Report as Inappropriate
I haven't been around for that many decades, yet observed all these whining of 'undercount' are regular and predictable. Usually from black politicians and not, it appears, Jews. Truth is, most large American cities lose populations or don't grow, while the suburbs around them swell.
This is very much true of my Baltimore even though the frum community grew beyond the most optimistic predictions in the last decade. But other, especially black, neighborhoods of Baltimore continue to hemorrhage. Even the economic advantages of the proximity to Washington seem to benefit Baltimore suburbs but not the inner city. It is similar in Brooklyn.
Whatever the reasons for this phenomenon, and we do generally know what they are, it is stupid to assign it to the undercount of frum. So stop whining and get on with your lives if you have any. Gut Shabbos!
12
Mar 25, 2011 at 12:20 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
No one has brought up the fact that many people have moved out of Brooklyn in the last 10 years. Who keeps track of that.? That and people not filling out the census probably caused the small increase.
To Darek #8 Why don't you first learn how the grants benefit the frum community before you make such a silly remark.
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Mar 25, 2011 at 12:47 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Its their own fault. We read last year here on VIN of many chassideshe households where they simply threw away the census forms and refused to open the doors to the enumerators who tried to get information so it serves them right. Some argued that it was against daas torah to participate and the real paranoid nutcases claimed the information would be used to "round up yidden" when things got really bad in the U.S.
The loss of federal grant funds because of the "undercount" will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The politicians can yell gevalt all they want but its too late to change things. Maybe its not too early to begin educating these yidden to cooperate in 2020. ”
I wish you would move to Seria, there are no jews there, you will definately be a happier person. The Serians are waiting for you.
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Mar 25, 2011 at 01:00 PM Darek Says:Report as Inappropriate
for all those people that talk about the "obligation" a person has to answer to the census worker; from where is the grant money coming from? its coming from taxes right? OK, so now when i don't answer to the census worker i am taking away grants from people BUT other people will pay less taxes, u cant say i have a OBLIGATION to make people pay more tax because the government got you addicted to social services, FYI the middleman in this case (politicians and social service "agency's") make tons of profits from these grants while throwing u a few bones.
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Mar 25, 2011 at 01:29 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I wish you would move to Seria, there are no jews there, you will definately be a happier person. The Serians are waiting for you. ”
Do you Serbia? (You left out the "b"). If so, there are still several thousand yidden living there. In any event, what does living with "Serians" have to do with the failure of may frum jews to participate in the census and thereby cause their neighborhoods to lose federal grant money?
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Mar 25, 2011 at 01:35 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ How will I or my mosdoses gain anything if I fill out the census. They dont ask what religion you are or where your children attend school. The extra money would go to the 10 Billion chinese that moved into BP. The school on Ft.Hamilton & 52 St. Was going to close down & be given to a moised. Now they build another building there & a new building on Ft.Hamilton & 62 St. thanks to the 10 billion bottle collector tax paying chinese ”
It's kind of like a coop. Your mosdos does get a piece of the pie, as do you. Your mosdos doesn't pay taxes, so they get a free piece of the pie. I'm sorry but you'll have to share the pie with the "10 billion Chinese that moved into BP, and the bottle collectors, ambulance users, disposers of garbage, playground users, community center users, fire department users, 311 callers, library users, people of all religious persuasions and atheists, veterans, old people, young people... that's just how it works. It's called government.
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Mar 25, 2011 at 01:48 PM elhabara Says:Report as Inappropriate
and maybe we will have some less house members from ny . 2 less democrats sounds nice to me. Put some tea party folks and reduce my taxes so i can pay my bills and don't worry about grants. All i care about is let me keep more of my money . No programs, no grants no anything. Just I want my money !
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Mar 25, 2011 at 01:55 PM kollelfaker Says:Report as Inappropriate
most frum jews do not partake in government serrvices UNLESS they are getting money but as for our low numbers most of our young kids and couples are in isreal or lakewood they arent hear and as for the chasidim their just don't particapate and many of their kids have left brooklyn as well
the census has nothing to do with taxes it has to do with congressional representation
and redistribution of funds to run the city and state
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Mar 25, 2011 at 02:00 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ You confirmed exactly what I said in post no. 3. When the politicians from the heimeshe parts of the city come crying for more grant money for their constituents, they should be told that they "gave away" their entitlement to federal grant funds by no participating in the census (which is the basis for allocating many grant programs). Its time to hold people accountable for their actions. There is NO REASON whatsoever for not having taken actions last year to assure that every person in every heimeshe household was counted. These people fully understood that by refusing to participate they were foregoing federal funds since that point was made over and over and over again in the newspapers, media and census mailings. ”
if i remember correctly it was in the low teens per household
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Mar 25, 2011 at 02:02 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ for all those people that talk about the "obligation" a person has to answer to the census worker; from where is the grant money coming from? its coming from taxes right? OK, so now when i don't answer to the census worker i am taking away grants from people BUT other people will pay less taxes, u cant say i have a OBLIGATION to make people pay more tax because the government got you addicted to social services, FYI the middleman in this case (politicians and social service "agency's") make tons of profits from these grants while throwing u a few bones. ”
Your logic makes no sense. I believe you still have a hangover from Purim.
21
Mar 25, 2011 at 02:19 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I agrree with #12, many people moved out of Brooklyn because of higher taxes, too expensive housing, crime, and no ERUV. THey went to Monsey, 5 towns, Passaic, Florida, etc. Instead we have Mexican illegals living 10 to an apt.
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Mar 25, 2011 at 02:21 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
No Darek...you ARE taking away money from your neighbors when you don't cooperate with the census since there is a fixed amount of funds allocated for both targeted and block grant programs. The census is used to ALLOCATE that fixed amount of money. If the heimeshe neighborhoods are undercounted, they get less of that fix pot of money and other neighborhoods get more. You really don't get it, do you?? You keep blabbering about "politicians taking most of the money in payoffs and profits". Yes that happens occasionally but more of them are getting caught and going to jail.
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Mar 25, 2011 at 02:25 PM mewhoze Says:Report as Inappropriate
i dont belive the chasidim are the ones who didnt give information.
i belive its all the illegals and/or undocumented.
the cahsidim know the drill. they know that more people = more dollars. the chasidim are here legally and have nothing to hide. while the same cannot be said for the undocumenteds and illegals.
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Mar 25, 2011 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ How will I or my mosdoses gain anything if I fill out the census. They dont ask what religion you are or where your children attend school. The extra money would go to the 10 Billion chinese that moved into BP. The school on Ft.Hamilton & 52 St. Was going to close down & be given to a moised. Now they build another building there & a new building on Ft.Hamilton & 62 St. thanks to the 10 billion bottle collector tax paying chinese ”
you are such an ignorant biggot it is an abomination..
25
Mar 25, 2011 at 03:14 PM Darek Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Your logic makes no sense. I believe you still have a hangover from Purim. ”
Instead of calling me a drunkard tell me why the logic doesent make sense, try ur best
26
Mar 25, 2011 at 03:29 PM Darek Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ No Darek...you ARE taking away money from your neighbors when you don't cooperate with the census since there is a fixed amount of funds allocated for both targeted and block grant programs. The census is used to ALLOCATE that fixed amount of money. If the heimeshe neighborhoods are undercounted, they get less of that fix pot of money and other neighborhoods get more. You really don't get it, do you?? You keep blabbering about "politicians taking most of the money in payoffs and profits". Yes that happens occasionally but more of them are getting caught and going to jail. ”
You sound like a little kid... Mommy u put more soda in Yitzy's glass..!! And his slice of cake is muuuch wider then mine.... but that's not relevant. I have no obligation to open the door for the census, I care about crazy taxes. Frankly I don't give a hoot about any grant my block lost.
27
Mar 25, 2011 at 04:28 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ You sound like a little kid... Mommy u put more soda in Yitzy's glass..!! And his slice of cake is muuuch wider then mine.... but that's not relevant. I have no obligation to open the door for the census, I care about crazy taxes. Frankly I don't give a hoot about any grant my block lost. ”
Than why are the political reps and askanim from the heimeshe sections of Brooklyn and Monsey always screaming for more money for poor yidden?
28
Mar 25, 2011 at 05:06 PM A Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ and maybe we will have some less house members from ny . 2 less democrats sounds nice to me. Put some tea party folks and reduce my taxes so i can pay my bills and don't worry about grants. All i care about is let me keep more of my money . No programs, no grants no anything. Just I want my money ! ”
If you lose 2 democrats you don't get 2 tea partyers. You just get less representation for your neighborhood, your city, your state. You'll still pay the same amount of taxes but it'll end up going to help the people in Kentucky or Texas get new and better highways and bridges, etc. New York has always paid more in federal taxes than it's gotten back, now the disparity will be even greater. Happy now?
29
Mar 26, 2011 at 09:24 PM Gefilte Fish Says:Report as Inappropriate
This whole census is non sense! Why should federal money be allocated to people who are here illegally, or who live and pay taxes elsewhere? The federal money, and legal representation should go according to how many tax payers live in a certain area. I bet you there are many more tax payers in NY than people who answered the census.
30
Mar 26, 2011 at 11:29 PM charliehall Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This whole census is non sense! Why should federal money be allocated to people who are here illegally, or who live and pay taxes elsewhere? The federal money, and legal representation should go according to how many tax payers live in a certain area. I bet you there are many more tax payers in NY than people who answered the census. ”
Why? Because the Constitution says to count persons, not taxpayers. If you have a problem with the Constitution, complain to the Founding Fathers.
31
Mar 26, 2011 at 11:31 PM Charlie Hall Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ and maybe we will have some less house members from ny . 2 less democrats sounds nice to me. Put some tea party folks and reduce my taxes so i can pay my bills and don't worry about grants. All i care about is let me keep more of my money . No programs, no grants no anything. Just I want my money ! ”
The big population losses -- actual declines -- are all upstate. It is quite possible that two Republican congressmen will lose their jobs.
32
Mar 27, 2011 at 11:34 AM PMOinFL Says:Report as Inappropriate
While the census data remains confidential for 72 years, there has to be some way of knowing who was counted and who was not. I think there should be a way of knowing whether or not a person participated in the census. If they didn't, they should not be entitled to *ANY* publicly funded programs.
In order for funds to be properly allocated, they have to count everyone. If you CHOOSE not to be counted, then you clearly have no respect for the system and no respect for your neighbors. Therefore, the system should reject you and your neighbors should not have to pay for your services. Period.
33
Mar 27, 2011 at 12:39 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ While the census data remains confidential for 72 years, there has to be some way of knowing who was counted and who was not. I think there should be a way of knowing whether or not a person participated in the census. If they didn't, they should not be entitled to *ANY* publicly funded programs.
In order for funds to be properly allocated, they have to count everyone. If you CHOOSE not to be counted, then you clearly have no respect for the system and no respect for your neighbors. Therefore, the system should reject you and your neighbors should not have to pay for your services. Period. ”
Please elaborate on which services we will be losing as a result of the undercount
34
Mar 27, 2011 at 01:30 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Why? Because the Constitution says to count persons, not taxpayers. If you have a problem with the Constitution, complain to the Founding Fathers. ”
Charlie,
Did you read the commenters comment? Either you did not, were incapable of understanding it, or as usuual, you did not respond to the comment but rather you responded totally nist tzum zach. As you are want to do.
The commenter did not talk about counting, which is what the constitution refers to, he was talking about distribution, a totally different matter.
I have to say that you are consistent though with your responses. They consistently have nothing to to with comments made and thus are senseless.
35
Mar 27, 2011 at 02:01 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ While the census data remains confidential for 72 years, there has to be some way of knowing who was counted and who was not. I think there should be a way of knowing whether or not a person participated in the census. If they didn't, they should not be entitled to *ANY* publicly funded programs.
In order for funds to be properly allocated, they have to count everyone. If you CHOOSE not to be counted, then you clearly have no respect for the system and no respect for your neighbors. Therefore, the system should reject you and your neighbors should not have to pay for your services. Period. ”
everyone WAS counted. after we visited you three times and you didn't answer the door or whatever you said that was not appropriate we visited your neighbors and they acted as a proxy FOR YOU. this is the closest count we could come up with when there are people for two months of visits not partaking in the count. BTW>>>> everyone WAS OBLIGATED to answer the questions. At least the question beginning with HOW MANY PEOPLE LIVED HERE PRIOR TO 4/1/10. i didn't agree with the other questions ; however, i didn't write the questionaire.. you snooze you lose.