New York – Rav Amsalem: ‘Daas Torah’ A Notion Invented by Ashkenazi Power Mongers

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    New York – In an explosive interview with Zev Brenner on last night’s Talkline radio program, Rabbi Chaim Amsalem, a former member of the Shas party since 2005 who has made waves within Shas by going head to head with R’ Yosef regarding conversions, stresses that their differences are purely political and that in matters of halacha the two do not disagree. Amsalem’s newly created ‘Am Shalem’ party challenges the Chareidi establishment, comparing it to the Taliban and calling it a dictatorship that is hopelessly out of touch with the people it claims to represent.

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    Pulling no punches, R’ Amsalem expressed his view that today’s Israeli longs for the opportunity to be able to balance Torah study with the ability to become educated and earn a respectable living, a concept that has long been espoused by Sefardim. R’ Amsalem emphasized that many of the Rabbonim we rely on today such as the ‘Rambam’, were both scientists and talmidei chachamim. Saying that Shas is teaching people to become a burden on society by discouraging them from getting jobs, Amsalem called for an end to government stipends for yeshiva students.

    Rabbi Amsalem lambasted the notion of Daas Torah, saying it is an invention of the last one hundred years brought to Israel by European Ashkenazim. Saying his personal Daas Torah is the Shulchan Aruch, Gemara and Mishnayos, R’ Amsalem explained that while one should clearly seek Daas Torah in issues of halacha and spirituality, the idea that every word that emanates from the mouth of a gadol is like the word of G-d is a blatant lie, perpetuated by those who hope to control the masses. R’ Amsalem takes aim at Rabbonim who rule on topics such as politics that they know nothing about.

    “The Rabbonim are surrounded by ‘courts’, they don’t listen to both sides,” said R’ Amsalem. “They listen only to one side, the side of the court. This goes against the Torah, which says Shomoa bein Achicha – you should hear your fellow Jew. They are not hearing both sides, they bring their decision only upon hearing one side. It should not be done this way. This is NOT Daas Torah.”

    Saying that some in the Charedi community, who has banned the internet entirely, is hopelessly out of date and out of touch with today’s society, R’ Amsalem, who clearly represents the Sefardi community, hopes that his Am Shalem party, with its platform of unity and respect for all, will be a unifying force in Israel, addressing the needs of Israelis all across the religious spectrum.

    R’ Amsalem scoffed at the notion that his extremist views would result in his being put in cheirem, saying that in today’s world banning him would only increase his popularity.

    Listen below to the explosive interview where callers take issue about his view on the notion of ‘Daas Torah’.

    The interview starts at minute 48:38. click here


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    65 Comments
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    abeytt03
    abeytt03
    12 years ago

    Baruch Hashem we have talmidei chachamim like Rav Amsalem willing to defy the status quo in pursuit of a better judaism and klal yisroel.

    Anyone know how I can donate to his new political party?

    how sad
    how sad
    12 years ago

    This guys is like the reform just in a up hat and long coat. This guy is a chulil hashem and yes should be but in charem.

    oldschoolorthodox
    oldschoolorthodox
    12 years ago

    He speaks emes, im surprised this isnt better known. For all those who plan to argue all you need to do is find a mekor that advice of Gedolim should be sought in non-halachic matters, that has been written prior to 1900. Our religion wasnt invented yesterday we have a very long and noble tradition, please please somebody find a mekor.
    (ideally the mekor should say that there is a chiyuv to listen but that is probably to hard to find, all im looking for is that such a concept exists)
    thank you

    Geulah
    Geulah
    12 years ago

    I haven’t heard the interview. Based on the synopsis, Rav Ansalem appears to be a sentient being not distracted by krumkeit. He is not referring to all Ashkenazy Rebbeim or all Sefardi chachamim, either.

    luchinkup
    luchinkup
    12 years ago

    Finally! This man is awesome. Cue all of the brain-dead zombies frothing at the mouth because of him.

    12 years ago

    Yidden ALWAYS asked the rabbi everything.

    JamesDean
    JamesDean
    12 years ago

    While I am sure that 100% of Daas Torah is not seeking to control the masses, I would bet a large number of the so called Askonim are.

    NeveAliza
    NeveAliza
    12 years ago

    Rav Amsalem is correct, but I think the “100 years” should be adjusted to “50 or 60 years”.

    InformedConsent
    InformedConsent
    12 years ago

    Concerning the Rabbi Amsalem’s claim of total ban on the internet is a result of being our of touch. VIN previously reported here: (http://www.vinnews.com/76216/2011/02/14/teaneck-nj-vin-exclusive-interview-with-world-renowned-rabbi-dr-twerski-part-i-–-internet-addiction/) another Rav with a similar view.

    My personal Rav, zol zein gezunt, could regularly pull the Daas Torah card, but never has to my recollection. He has never published a “gilui daas Torah” or something of the sort. Bu then again, his unassuming nature is what draws others to his guidance. Maybe if he had a posse of die-hard followers, they too would enforce his words in a militant style. Alas, his true followers are not threatened by those who do not ascribe in the same fashion – more for ourselves, we claim.

    shari
    shari
    12 years ago

    torah is all encompassing. Rabbis do not just decide omn rituals, shabbos, kashrus. Torah- and Rabbis guide us in all political decisions- which when broken down are issues on security, social, economic, educational etc. The zekeinim decided in all history. Ask him his position on the Chazon Ish’s decision on women serving in the IDF- and the high intermarriage rate of Jewish girls to arabs in bat yam, lod , haifa r”l

    WiseDude
    WiseDude
    12 years ago

    YES! At last some common sense! The Chareidi world has gone too far in an extreme direction which is harmful in many ways. Maybe R. Anselem can get the ship upright again. ! Kol HaKavod!!!!!!!

    HaNavon
    HaNavon
    12 years ago

    Daas Torah is something that is found on every page of Gemara, Shulchan Aruch and the Poskim.
    That having been said, he’s correct!!
    If you want to know Daas Torah, go sit and learn.

    12 years ago

    I never figured out what Daas Torah really is since we don’t have a pope to give is one psak halacha for all. we have many rabonim with all different views and opinions whatever rov you follow that is your daas torah

    enlightened-yid
    enlightened-yid
    12 years ago

    Uh-oh, some sane rabbi is going against the grain and the corrupted rabbinical system that passes as “Torah Life” for past hundred years. Let me predict that by tomorrow almost every Charedi leader from both Ashkenazi and Sefardi establishments in Israel will call him an apekores.

    The guy obviously studied some Jewish history outside what he was spoon fed by his yeshiva system and realized that Judaism was never meant to be backwards and continually slipping into Talibanesque Islam through “Da’as Torah from rock star rabbis given the title of Gadol. But can he actually change anything?–I doubt it. Charedi men are well accustomed to a life of no responsibilities to having a family. Who would change a system that tells you to work hard on education and careers to support a wife and kids on your own without waiting for entitled handouts because you feel special and holy sitting in kollel for half of your life.

    And one thing he hit on the nail very hard is how Ashkenazim did politicize religion from top to bottom. We now have streams of charedi sects, different black hat groups, chabad, reform this, conservative that, reconstruction all divisive and highly political.

    Secular
    Secular
    12 years ago

    To #19

    The Chinuch as well as the RambaM refer specifically to issues of Pesak and Mesorah, not politics, welfare or internet.

    yidishemama
    yidishemama
    12 years ago

    he is absolutely right! we need more like him

    jlq3d3
    jlq3d3
    12 years ago

    Daas torah is for torah, by definition. I don’t go to daas torah for political or medical opinions. This Rav Amsalem is right.

    KevinTheMevin
    KevinTheMevin
    12 years ago

    Sounds like he has his head screwed on the right way, unlike many “gedolim”

    trachtois
    trachtois
    12 years ago

    I like this Sefardic xenophobe who believes that everything is a result of some devious “vast right wing conspiracy” of the “Council of Elders of Ashkenaz (Zion)”. Does this Amsalem believe the Ashkenazim use the blood of people of North African descent in their Matzo, too?

    kasamba
    kasamba
    12 years ago

    i am sure he would not have Assur ed Lipa Schmeltzer.

    berelw
    berelw
    12 years ago

    im liking this guy. i agree we charadim in usa have real jobs we work hard, i just asked my ruv about ebay regarding shabbos, he was fluent in eCommerce and he doesnt have internet at home. he made his business to know since its peoples parnosa. thats a ruv…i agree what he said regaRDING daas hatorah…..real daas torah is a shulchan aruch…

    12 years ago

    Large community based organizations like to use the term “Daas Torah”. i.e. Agudath Israel always backs up their political support for homos or others as coming from discussions with “Daas Torah”. Think about this. Would REAL “Daas Torah” give up Torah Values for money?? I think not. Then when you ask the Agudah leader which “Daas Torah” he spoke to he usually answers “I’m not at liberty to say.”

    This Rav Amsalem is the true Godol of our generation. He sees what others can’t seem to see. Hashem ‘opened’ his eyes to the Emes! I hope his movement does well and I wish him Hatzlocho Rabbo!

    curious
    curious
    12 years ago

    He is unfortunately right about one-sided batei dinim. The ban on The Making of a Gadol came about through one-sided zhulekehs arguing infront of gedolei Torah.

    bored again
    bored again
    12 years ago

    I haven’t checked it up myself but i’ve seen quotes from tanya igerres hakodesh 22 where he completely destroys the idea of asking gedolim about mundane gashmius matters. probably worth seeing inside before commenting on it.
    Although we cannot forget chazal we see in brachos 3b that klal yisroel did come to david to complain that they needed parnassa and we do find that he did give them advise. However they did not accept his first suggestion 😉

    bored again
    bored again
    12 years ago

    As far as the ashkinazi conspiracy theory goes I have what to say. I am ashkinazi and my wife is sefardi so i think i can say something controversial. . I am a huge fan of the ben ish chai and kaf hachaim. their words along with the great ashkinazi poskim rank high for anyone who takes learning torah seriously. If you read what they write you will see that they bore no prejudice against quoting ashkinazi sources to decide halacha. Much the same as i can’t remember a mishna berurah ever quoting a pri chadash for example and dismissing it by saying oh but he is sefardi so pay no attention to him.
    This generation has received seffarim written and signed without remorse as dismissing completely anything said by members of coreligionists who are of different heritage and minhagim. And it is even more prevalent in seffardi tshuvos than ashkinazi ones. In fact there is one sifardi gadol in particular who i won’t name who seems to be on a mission to destroy all the bridges built in previous generations by only quoting long forgotten purely seffardic sources and reffering to words of ashkinazi rabbis as only pertaining to ashkinazim.
    These words are the easiest way to keep moshiach away.

    josephf
    josephf
    12 years ago

    There is no reason to take Mr. Amsalem seriously. Rav Ovadoa Yosef already has condemned him.

    Kanyeshna
    Kanyeshna
    12 years ago

    He is correct, but allow me to ask one question:

    Did the Rambam make money as a “scientist?”

    DavidMoshe
    Active Member
    DavidMoshe
    12 years ago

    Wow! I am impressed. Good luck to him.

    oiber-chacham
    oiber-chacham
    12 years ago

    finally,after all these years a voice of sanity eminating from eretz yisroel

    Anominous
    Anominous
    12 years ago

    According to the article above he is creating a political party. This concerns me if his views can become biased by his political party or desire to get more votes/members…If you are running a political party, you should become biased to say things that will earn you votes…it is dangerous…That’s why what we need is Melech Maschiach, who will not have bias on what he says!

    BinderDundat
    BinderDundat
    12 years ago

    The man is 100% on the money. Daas Torah does not judge what music I listen to, which hechsher I can or cant eat, etc. The men he refers too are control freaks.

    sechelyoshor
    sechelyoshor
    12 years ago

    Some above quoted the chiyuv Mid’Oraisa to listen to the chachomim of our dor. they quoted the sefer hachinuch, a pasuk and a gemara. Some responded that this only applies to matters of halacha.

    I heard that there is a place where the Maharatz Chayus says that the obligation to listen is only when we have a Sanhedrin. I was told that he writes that ever since the split between Ashkena and Sfard Jewery we haven’t had one voice of our leadership so this is no longer the halacha.

    So even if these psukim apply to hashkafa, according to the Maharatz Chayusit no longer applies.

    Now here’s the interesting thing. There’s an encyclopedia of Gedolim called Altas Eitz Chaim where it states that the Maharatz Chayus is not 100% kosher. IOW he was a maskil. Did they call him that because he wrote the above about Daas Torah? Anyone know about where he writes this???

    kollelfaker
    kollelfaker
    12 years ago

    finally some one with brains and knowledge