Jerusalem – Restaurant owners in Meah Shearim are reeling after the Badatz Eida Chareidis, which provides mehadrin kosher certification to many establishments, ordered all restaurants closed at 10:30 Thursday nights, according to a report published today by Israeli news service Maariv. With numerous yeshivos in the Beis Yisroel neighborhood and its surroundings, the practice of going out for cholent after night seder on Thursday night has grown in popularity, with throngs of bochurim hanging out till all hours of the morning, a practice that Rabbonim in the area say “causes disturbances in both ruchniyus and gashmiyus.”
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Eateries that fail to comply with the new ruling will forfeit their kashrus certification.
Leading the call to end the late night practice, timed to coincide with the end of night seder, is Reb Nosson Tzvi Finkel, Rosh Yeshiva of Beis Yisroel’s Mirrer Yerushalayim, whose many students are among those who enjoy a taste of Shabbos on Thursday nights.
The ban goes into effect this week and it is expected that local business owners will comply with the new ruling.
The Rosh Hayeshiva shlit”a has it right. The obligation in chinuch, at all levels, is to model and teach yir’as Shomayim. The dictate that we must bring kedusha into every action is one that has fallen into unpopularity these days to our great misfortune. It is our chiyuv to abolish practices that place these gluttonous behaviors on a pedestal. It is wonderful to taste Shabbos food before Shabbos, but I challenge anyone to demonstrate that the practice of Thursday night chulent fressing has any connection at all with what our Chachomim expected with their suggestion of טועמיה.
It is remarkable to me that the rabbonim do not trust the talmidim to do it on their own, but have to bypass and take away parnossa from the store owners in order to make their point.
It would appear that they have more control over the stores than their own talmidim. I think it would be time to get rid of these talmidim and get a new set that might listen to the Rabbonim.
Or better yet, take the Yeshivos out of Yerushalayim and move them to places where there will be no obstructions to learning. Like the Negev or a kibbutz. That way, the bochurim could learn without destroying their ruchniyus and the yeshivos could rent out their schools and get $$ to help support the yeshiva students.
The clothing establishments should take note; this alone will have an impact on belly size, if this takes hold they will have to adjust their orders to smaller sizes.
Yes, I support this rule.
I hope I am wrong but it seems as though the current generation among American Ashkenazim has more young obese men than there should be.
Bochurim won’t stop eating Chulent Thursday night. It is a shame that the Haimish stores in Meah Shearim and Bais Yisroel won’t be profiting off this any longer.
I’d also be concerned about where the bochurim will go and get their chulent now. Lol
now what will they do for their well deserved downtime after a long week of learning? they will go find less constructive outlets….
This is going to stop nothing there are multiple possibilities here:
the bocherim will leave seder earlier to get the cholet
they will buy it earlier and warm it up
they will start making their own, and possible cause food poising and / or fires
The Rosh HaYeshiva of the Mir, R’ Nosson Tzvi Finkel has banned all stores in the Mir’s vicinity from staying open past 10:30pm in order to discourage Bochurim from staying up late and coming late to Yeshiva the next day, which was happening.
A Cholent and Shnitzel joint called Crispy Chicken next to the Mir has lost it’s Eida HaCharedis Hechsher because it stays open until 2-3am. The Mashgiach walked in at 1am and took the sign off of the wall and left.
Prohibiting activities that may be used in an improper way by some people is a fool’s errand. A Thursday night chulent isn’t a “bad” thing in and of itself. The bochurim that stay out all night will find another venue for staying out all night. The problem is that some bochurim will stay out all night, cholent or not. Maybe we should assur being a bochur! Or maybe the yeshivot can find a way to take a Thursday night chulent outing into something more appropriate.
It is almost always preferable to channel activities rather than damming them.
Instead of Reb. Finkel banning smoking he takes an issue of eating cholent Thursday night as an important thing. Maybe he should look into bochrim smoking and ban that which is more important to everybodies health the smoker and the people aaround who do not smoke. Lets get real hear the Rabbonim major on minor things.
how does their reluctance to close early Thurday nights affect the kashrus of their products?
Is it inappropriate for anyone else who works late or is busy to buy food after 10:30?
It is disgusting for any kosher certifying agency to punish storeowners because the yeshiva doesn’t like what its bochurim are doing. The shopkeepers have done nothing wrong.
This is simple extortion and blackmail. I am astounded that the store owners have not sued the BEC for tortious interference with their business.
This business of eating cholent on Thurs. night wasn’t done in the alte heim. I don’t recall exactly when it started, but, it is a relatively “neia meshugas”.
To #10
“When my Rosh Hayeshivah told us to do or not to do something we listened!!”
Ha, you must must have a had some Rosh Hayeshiva, to have been educated that one can/may deride the ruling of a Rav as great as Reb Nosson Tzvi.
I agree with those who point out that the Roshie Yeshivas have a problem if they can’t control their talmidim, however, there was a need for an immediate fix, and the fix is, to force the stores to close early.
I hope the Roshie Yeshivas will realize that they need to reevaluate their influence over their talmidim, although I seriously doubt this will happen.
Ever wonder why kids go off the derech?? Ever wonder why kids have no respect for today’s rabbonim (not c”v targetted at the R”Y)? Ever stop to think if these kids who are being banned from something won’t find another way to do it? C’mon, where are the G’virim whom these rabbonim look up to for $$ – to provide them with a shtikel reality?? You can’t ALWAYS be saying no…. Food (not cholent) for thought??
Since I don’t want to be in Cheirem, I have to protest the denigration of Reb Nosson Tzvi Finkel. The people who are second guessing him might be guilty of two things; lack of common sense, and Dvar Hashem Bazah. lack of common sense, because he is the rosh yeshiva of the largest yeshiva in the word, which grew to its status under his leadership; he is an American raised Rosh Yeshiva who threw himself into learning in his late teens and is now universally respected for gadlus in Torah and Middos and Seichel. Well, apparently, not universally. But at least among other gedolim. And Dvar Hashem Bazah for zilzul talmid chacham.
I say a yehi ratzon every day that i should not assur the mutar. Today it has become the practice to do just that on an institutional level. That causes ultimate rebellion. The rabonim, as learned as they are, are way off base on this.
It’s time they banish it in bklyn and Monsey. Men use cholent night as an excuse to escape out of the house, and it leads to BAD things. Trust me.
Bans don’t work, they just show how scared the “gozrei habans” are. Yes it’s true, we are no longer living in the Mir of old and Yerushalayim of our days is not the Yerushalayim of even just 10 or 20 years ago. Banning will contain some for a while and distance many others.
Theoretically there’s a better suggestion: Make a rule that bochrim that don’t make it to davening on time have to talk to the mashgiach to get to the root of the problem. Of course that can never happen because everyone knows there are way too many bochrim in the Mir so there is little opportunity to guide bochrim in a personal way. – HMMM… Might it be that THIS IS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM??? How can you send your child to a yeshiva that has thousands of talmidim and no individual guidance? And since this can never be fixed by the yeshiva, the only “answer” is to make bans (that won’t work. I bet there are some restaurants a mile or so away that will now offer the same late night cholent and the bochrim will just travel a bit further for their fun.)
A better suggestion: have a Mirrer kumzits with cholent every Thursday night. Spice it up with Mussar about getting up for shacharis. It might help!!! Really!
That Yeshivos don’t want their Talmidim to hang out at cholent joints, late at night is reasonable but for an establishment’s to be forced to close at 10:30, on their busiest week night or risk forfeiting their hechsher, now that’s absurd.
Thursday night business includes family’s buying for Shabbos, why should that business be lost by the stores and why inconvenience people, not the Talmidim who do their shopping late Thursday night. Maybe the Yeshivos should have cholent available in the yeshiva’s every Thursdaqy night after seder so the talmidim won’t need to even go to these stores and let these establishments remain open for other business and everyone might be happy.
If a written farher were given every Friday morning at 9 AM, with a stipulation that if you don’t “make the grade” your out the door (no matter who your daddy is), dicipline would come by itself.
V’ chain hadin B’Lakewood, V’chain hadin B’Brooklyn.
Any bochur who willingly stays up late to eat “chulent” is is need of serious help…..its bad enough we have to eat it on shabbos so why would they voluntarily eat chulent rather than pizza or ice cream???
I agree with those that say the Roshei Yeshiva need to influence their students to act halachacly, and not impose restrictions on merchants becuase of their lack of success in doing so. There will always be another alternative for teh students: those that don’t listen to teh R”Y may eat at places under Badatz, or they may find less desireable alternatives for “hanging out.” Best they stay in M”S under the eye of the R”Y.
What an opportunity missed. Imagine if the Mir would have a kumzitz in their cheder ochel, let the boys pay for their cholent and let the shopleepers supply the cholent, Imagine if the 3000 bochrim would sing in unison to the beat of their belches, till 1 in the morning and then renew their learning until netz.
doesnt make much sense considering thursday night cholent is one of the few KOSHER outlets still remaining. Don’t burn your own bridges!
if any1 read the mishpacha article a few months bak “beyond the fringes”, rabbi brofman shlita said something very tru that the yeshivish world seem to not understand… “while banning things may be neccessary, its not a solution” but leaving that aside…boys will always look to go out socialize and have a gud time…without cholent, a kosher boys only jewish oriented activity, the boys will not just stay in the bais medrash..they go socialize elsewhere which poses far greater danger!!! whats wrong with boys only jewish oriented socialized place…its time to stop banning everything and pick your fights!!!!!!!!!!!!! wats next???kumzits ban??????
While the article does not explicitly state this, I feel there is a need to clarify one point. These establishments are open until 1 am (or 2,3,4 am etc) & it really disturbs the neighborhood, which BTW is full of little kids who need sleep. So whether or not you think this ban is stupid there is a ‘shtickel’ need for it
If they don’t want their students going out to eat they can tell them not to. If the boys don’t listen to the rabbis that’s hardly the fault of the restaurants.
any man who can create a mossad in the state of health like the rosh yeshiva shlita deserves at the very least derech eretz attention mister comment number ten with the “succesful” rosh yeshiva. as a yungerman who lives near the mir and sees the havoc that goes on at say elis at three ocklock in the morning makes you thinlwhat happened to the mir of five years ago the noise,the often drunken revelry ,since when did fridays hilchos teffilah become optional come on big shots lets see what you have to answer to me heh PS i can gaurentee that anyone takingf me on didnt say krias shma bzman this past friday or for that matter today also !!!!!!!!
If the powers that be think that banning cholent will stop the young men from gathering on Thursday nights, they are sadly mistaken. They will just begin ordering something else. I can just see the next – chicken soup with matzo balls, followed by a ban on roasted chicken a/o burgers. No wonder so many young people are questioning what real “frumkeit” is all about. Soon they will be governed as to what they may eat, 3 times a day, 7 days a week. Pastrami is no good on Sunday – only voorsht. Monday is strictly for tuna fish. This whole thing is ridiculous.
What will they ban next? Coffee before seder?
This is not a ban. The store asked for a hechsher from the Badatz. The concept of hechsher needs to address more than the ingredients of the food. The Badatz always made other halachos and values part of their hechsher, and none of this is new. Those establishments that permitted both men and women to sit in the store to eat lost their hechsher. In my day, there were places whose hechsher was removed and reinstated as fast as one can change a shirt. All that happens here is that these stores do not need to be open late to meet the true needs of those who wish to eat. This practice of late Thursday nights caters to the wanton, gashmiyus needs that are antithetical to the goals of the yeshiva. They also are against the basic standards of the Badatz. They did not ban anything. They just implemented a practice that made their standard relevant to this. The Rosh Hayeshiva is correct in pointing this out. The article relates that the Mashgiach just walked into the store, observed the goings on, and pulled down the hechsher sign. Simple, accurate. Not a ban. Don’t sweat it.
For of you questioning the wisdom of this ban: it’s about time you opened your own yeshiva or do something else to show the way instead of second guessing people who actually are trying to do something.
For those concerned about the stores losing business: the local residents don’t buy there anyway. These shops opened around Mir to get Mirer bochurim. Furthermore moving the yeshiva, besides being technically impossible, won’t help since the restaurants will move along.
I really hope the r.y. is right. However im willing to bet a plate of cholent that this ban like all previous will not work. If anything it may backfire. These kids will just bring the party to their apartments. I am involved with a teen at risk, I can tell you these types of bans only distance these kids and make rabbanim into a joke in their eyes. Many of the above posts have the right idea, put the onus on these bochrim to be on time Friday morning.
So because the establishment is popular and the students that the teachers didn’t teach properly don’t know proper middos, the establishment runs the risk of loosing their hechsher?
What is this Hechsher Tzedek? This has nothing to do with kashrus. Spend more time teaching proper middos in your yeshivos and this wouldn’t be an issue. I guess they won’t be happy until they can blame drugs for the failures of their students.
I understand the Rabbonims intent and think it is a good thing. But they are also doing the bochurim a benefit by in a small way preserving their health.. Now if they would only ban all forms of smoking.
Rabbi Yosef. Was taken to jail and all we can talk about is cholent!?!
I still don’t understand. Why would bochurim voluntarily choose to eat “chulent” on Thursday nights rather than the normal kosher junkfood that normal teens eat like pizza, sushi, ice cream ,etc. What is the basis or source for this minahg for bochurim eating a fatty, flatulence producing food when there are so many other options available??
32 comments on cholentlessness, and 1 on the dead jewish bones, that may have been vctims of violence. None of us deserve ANY cholent!
Rabbi Yosef. Was taken to jail and all we can talk about is cholent!?!
This is not about banning. It’s about giving a hechsher on a hangout. That occurs everywhere, and machshirim are starting to pay closer attention to it. One of the American hechsherim was known to pay close attention to the food, ingredients, suppliers, and preparation. They openly and admittedly did not examine the business practices. However, if they became aware of unethical or halachically improper business practices, the hechsher was yanked immediately. I have first hand information on that. We might debate whether it was okay for the kashrus organization to ignore the business end of it in the first place.
There was an establishment in Brooklyn that was a known drug hangout. It is B”H closed now. I personally investigated the rav hamachshir. He is known to be totally unreputable. When confronted, he never answered beyond cursing those who questioned his “kavod haTorah”. What a disgrace. That is a risk for all fast food establishments. The “cholent spots” in other locations also need their hashgochos removed. The behavior is disgraceful, and unworthy of a hechsher.
I, for one, think that this ban has brought us one step closer to biyas Hamashiach. I can think of nothing else, nothing, that would do more for klal yisrael than this action.
I think they should assur chulent on shabbos gareirah atu thursday night.
if this news were coming out of afghanistan or pakistan or any of the stans we would call it taliban,taliban.the yeshivish world has to go forward to being normal.cholent on thurs eve is mayain olam habah and represents the soul’s yearning for shabbos-zrezeen makdimim le mitzvah. these chumrot will alienate yeswhiva students.
Better the yeshivot stop laundering money and let the boys enjoy their nite out eating chulent with a little kishka.
It has nothing to do with anticipation of shabbos…if it did, why not start on Wednesday evening, or even better on motzi shabbos when it would be logical to offer a siman of the next shabbos which sadly is six days away. Instead, its just normal teenage exhuberance and a way to blow off some stress at the end of the week. It would be much better if they would celebrate with some healthy snacks like sushi .
The ratcheting up of the insanity will only continue. It is unfortunate that rabbeim, like liberals, think you can legislate behavior like this. People, bocherim included, do not respond to actions like this in a static manor. They will find some other way of doing what they want. The eating of the cholent is SYMPTOM, not the root of the problem. The real “issue” is that the students want to be together in social setting. Trying to legislate that away will only cause anger frustration and subversion.
Wow! This whole chulent business has provoked more emotion than anything else in recent memory on VIN. Our priorities are truly messed up.
I learned in the Mir several years ago and fully understand where the R”Y Shlita is coming from. In my day bochrim would congregate in certain “diras” which were known to be fun places to hang. Some of these apartments were located in residential buildings containing many families with multiple children. As young unmarried adults, we unfortunately did not understand the difficulty we were causing these fine Yerushalmi families with our rowdy late night hangouts. When they knocked on the door to complain, we thought little of it. I regret this behavior today.
According to the article, the late-night hangouts were causing disturbances. Since bochrim are not sensitive to the local neighbors, the RY Shlita had no choice but to ban these late night gatherings.
To those commentators who worry about the restaurant’s parnassa, and the bochrim’s loss of a kosher outlet-believe me, the RY took these concerns into account. You are not smarter or a greater Yorai Shomayim then him. To suggest otherwise is sheer chutzpah!
I personnally was zocha to see how the rosh yeshiva lives with torah. He can come into the Beis Medresh shaking like a leaf from parkinsons. Yet When he used to get up to give a shuir he would hold onto a shtender ( to control the shaking) and say the shuir with such a bren. after the shuir he would just plotz from exhustion. His love with talmidim both when there is a tzaroh and a simcha is unreal. i challenge anyone to watch him interact.We are talking about a very holy person. As far as no supervison the Mir is not made for boys who can’t sit and learn even though it is in style. It is made for those who want to shteig. And me and my friends were one of them. I can contribute it to the ruach of no physical (Ie a mashgiach telling me what to do) pressure. (Of course the Rosh’s tzidukus and love for talmidim contributed a great amount as well).This allowed me to develop my own mahalach at my own pace. So some people gain from a low pressure environment. Obviously some don’t. Bottom line know your son before you send them.As far as those cholemt stores the Rosh yeshiva knows what he is doing and is very down to earth.
I learned in MIR many years ago, and there were only a few outlets that sold chulent late thursday night, one was in a van that set up shop a few blocks away, I would not eat it since it had no hechsher. and one restaurant that was under bdatz. It is not the act of eating the chulent that is the problem but according to my son the noise and the fact that many buchurim from other yeshivos in other parts of Yerushalayim that also come to hang out. Many of these buchurim have very different standards than what is expected in Mir. This is one of the issues, If buchurim need to “chill out” so often perhaps MIR is not the correct yeshiva for them. There are to many guys that just go to have it on their resume, how many guys really go to Rav Asher’s shiur and do a complete chazara of shiur every night?
Are they going to his shiur since it’s the in thing to do? or is it to hurva over his every word, and actually learn a mihalech.
Rav Nosson Tvi, is an absolute tzddik and I cannot believe the chutzpah that some people are willing to express.