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London - Van Where Pigs Meet Kosher Meat

Published on: July 18, 2011 10:05 AM
By: Read more at The Jewish Chronicle
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London - A pig carcass has been discovered hanging in a delivery lorry next to kosher meat which has been stamped by London’s strictest kashrut authority.

A series of photographs published on a Charedi news website, Behadrei Haredim, shows an unwrapped pig carcass hanging in a lorry next to kosher beef with a clearly marked Kedassia stamp.

Another photograph shows the lorry parked in Stamford Hill with a man carrying one of the kosher carcasses into butcher, Super Glatt. The butcher refused to comment.

A senior rabbi, who did not want to be named, said that the incident did not pose any problems halachically because the meat is cleaned and salted after it is delivered. But he added: “Who wants that on the Shabbat table?”

A statement from the Union of Hebrew Orthodox Congregations, which oversees Kedassia, said that transporting kosher with non-kosher meat saved costs.

“The Union rabbinate is aware of the delivery of both raw kosher and non-kosher carcases in the same vehicle,” it said.

“This raises no halachic problems.

“The ‘aesthetics’ of the photos plays no part in the halachic permissibility of the delivery of such meat in the same vehicle.”


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Read Comments (35)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Jul 18, 2011 at 10:20 AM Afalgav Says:

Whoever published those photos is a mecharcher riv. What a shame that right before the three weeks someone seeks to create machlokes. There is nothing wrong with a kosher carcass marked al pi halacha to be next to the carcass of a chazer. In a kosher slaughterhouse the treifos and neveilos are next to the kosher as they are being checked.

2

 Jul 18, 2011 at 10:24 AM Anonymous Says:

Even the most highly regarded chassideshe hashgachos and the eida have addressed this issues previously. There is no "contamination" associated with such mixing of kosher meat and chazerflesih at either the schlachtheis or trucks prior to kashering. It may not be visually the most appetizing picture but yidden know that visuals play no role in hashghacha and kashruth. I would be upset if the same restaurant had kosher meat and chazerfleish hanging in the window side by side.

3

 Jul 18, 2011 at 10:44 AM YYYguy Says:

Another example of one organization trying to discredit another.

4

 Jul 18, 2011 at 10:47 AM cooljew Says:

All I can say is for a hechsher that considers itself the best in the world you would think they would be machmer and avoid this, but off course being Kedasia they need to save as much money as possible for there swiss investments......

5

 Jul 18, 2011 at 10:50 AM rebchuna Says:

some bored ppl in stamford hill are looking to undermine the mara deasra shlita, the bes din & think this is the way they might get an eruv in the area

6

 Jul 18, 2011 at 10:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Super Glatt does not generally mix treifus with its kosher meat unless they have obtained approval of their mashgiach timidi which I very much doubt.

7

 Jul 18, 2011 at 10:58 AM UseYourHead Says:

Kol haposel, b'mino posel.

8

 Jul 18, 2011 at 11:01 AM pork CHOP Says:

I dont understand, it would seem that the pig and the cow come from the same slaughter house. sounds very complicated. What happens if someone makes a mistake or one of the animals get carved up, how can one identify the piece of meat?

9

 Jul 18, 2011 at 11:04 AM UseYourHead Says:

There was actually another pig there. It is not visible in the photo, because it was the one holding the camera....

10

 Jul 18, 2011 at 11:14 AM cooljew Says:

I still think it is disgracefull for a hashgacha like kedassia that prides itself on being the best, Is there no problem of "mares hoain"

11

 Jul 18, 2011 at 11:45 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
cooljew Says:

I still think it is disgracefull for a hashgacha like kedassia that prides itself on being the best, Is there no problem of "mares hoain"

No, since there is no issue with this type of delivery, there is no maris ayin

12

 Jul 18, 2011 at 11:48 AM newtransplant Says:

Reply to #9  
UseYourHead Says:

There was actually another pig there. It is not visible in the photo, because it was the one holding the camera....

Brilliant! and I agree!

13

 Jul 18, 2011 at 12:17 PM ex kedassia from today Says:

Q. Why cant Kedassia spend a few more pounds and have a dedicated vehicle like LBD KF and the others?
A. Because they are only good at taking money from the community and not putting anything back all we get is lowest quality chickens highest price for wedding and putting our meat together with pig............... etc etc etc ......................

14

 Jul 18, 2011 at 12:25 PM Shocked and Dismayed Says:

Well this may be well known to the people in the business, however, many of us are naueseated by the thought that kosher meat is shipped together with chazar.

15

 Jul 18, 2011 at 12:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
cooljew Says:

I still think it is disgracefull for a hashgacha like kedassia that prides itself on being the best, Is there no problem of "mares hoain"

Either way, you have no place to criticise. If you belong to the community, the rabbonim have already stated the halachic position. If you don't - well the pig was meant for you.

16

 Jul 18, 2011 at 12:48 PM Yoav1 Says:

What have Kedassia's meat policies got to do with the chiyuv of building an eruv in Stamford Hill? Rav Padwa is not the Rav of every kehilla in Stamford Hill - nobody accepted him as such, and the biggest proof is that there are no unified practices when it comes to hilchos shabbos -the only area where people even know what Rav Padwa's opinion is is in hilchos eruvin.
If one is opposed to attacks on Kedassia, then, if they want to be consistent, they should be opposed to Kedassia's attacks against others, and also with the UOHC's attempt to stop people from fulfilling the mitzva of building an eruv. If Rav Padwa is opposed, then he should write a teshuva explaining his reasons, and tell those who regard him as their rov for all areas of halacha not to use it. There is no reason in the world why other kehillos should be prevented from doing what their poskim regard as a mitzva and a chiyuv.

18

 Jul 18, 2011 at 01:19 PM Anonymous Says:

There is red fluid on the floor. That means it is draining off the animal. Who is to say as it swings back and forth on the meat hook, the chazer isn't shpritzing fluid onto the kosher animal? There may be bittul laws in such a case, but who wants to rely on hetterim when they expect glatt? Is it really sufficient to just salt meat that was shpritzed with bacon or clam juice to make it kosher? And when removing the carcass, does it ever touch the floor? Important questions.

19

 Jul 18, 2011 at 01:21 PM enlightened-yid Says:

How can they call it the "strictest" kashrut authority when that organization is not taking that extra step and a dollar to be strict and avoid transporting pig fat together with kosher meat? Sounds like dollar bills are more important than being extra strict about how the kosher meat is handled.

20

 Jul 18, 2011 at 01:34 PM Michael BarDaniel Says:

Why is everyone so annoyed about the photos? If there's nothing to hide what's the problem?
Kedassia have very strict policies, for example, a licence-holder must not stay in a kosher hotel under a different hashgacha. If an organization chooses to appear in people's eyes as "Mehadrin min ha'mehadrin" then they should avoid this, (possible halachic implications aside) if you feel you have something to hide then you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. If people are bothered by this (even non rationally) you cannot say it doesn't matter, a parallel could be someone who pays for mineral water and you give them tap water - even if they can't tell the difference it is theft.
Most people who pay extra (quite a bit extra) for Kedassia do so because they want the highest standard is kashrus. The majority of those have no idea what glatt means or what a sircha is or what happens when non kosher meat comes in contact with kosher meat, whether before salting or after They pay extra hoping that no stringency has been overlooked. To then do something which looks bad has serious connotations of Geneivas Daas.
See Chulin 37b, Yechezkel never ate meat which had to be permitted by a chacham.

21

 Jul 18, 2011 at 01:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Shocked and Dismayed Says:

Well this may be well known to the people in the business, however, many of us are naueseated by the thought that kosher meat is shipped together with chazar.

Why are you upset about kosher meat and treifus being transported together in the same truck or rail car. Kosher meat doesn't get contaminated by proximity to treifus prior to being kashered. Would you not eat in a glatt restaurant located in the same building as another restaurant serving chazerfleish?

22

 Jul 18, 2011 at 01:48 PM Kashrus Pro Says:

This story originally appeared a week or so ago on the website of a self hating Jew and was put there, as is always the case with what this creep does, is point out "gotchas" to klal Yisroel. He has a reserved seat in g'henim for his loshon hora & r'chilus!

That being said, there is halochikly NOTHING wrong with this. It happens all the time. If you make a big deal out of this, you should tell me that the shochet has to kasher his chalif after most sh'chitas since one way or the other most b'haima gasa are not kosher. By shechting the next animal, he's making the next b'haima treif. BUT it doesn't work like that!!

23

 Jul 18, 2011 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Afalgav Says:

Whoever published those photos is a mecharcher riv. What a shame that right before the three weeks someone seeks to create machlokes. There is nothing wrong with a kosher carcass marked al pi halacha to be next to the carcass of a chazer. In a kosher slaughterhouse the treifos and neveilos are next to the kosher as they are being checked.

I agree. The sight is unbecoming, but then we are not expected to see anything at the point of shipping. This is the use of "public opinion" intended to create a mistaken belief, all to bring about a desired outcome. However, it comes at the expense of dishonesty. When will we ever learn?

24

 Jul 18, 2011 at 03:13 PM kosher Says:

first of all the kosher meat becomes tomai. Second of all for those learning daf yomi ches amud beis. One must not put fat cheilev on meat. See tosfos and sefer issur veheter even if cold. If one does so its machlokes haposkim. Pigs meat has the same din as cheilev.

25

 Jul 18, 2011 at 05:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
kosher Says:

first of all the kosher meat becomes tomai. Second of all for those learning daf yomi ches amud beis. One must not put fat cheilev on meat. See tosfos and sefer issur veheter even if cold. If one does so its machlokes haposkim. Pigs meat has the same din as cheilev.

What on earth are you talking about? Tumah is not relevant to the subject at all, and no one even mentioned that the carcases were touching. Lastly, there are many differences between pork and cheylev.

26

 Jul 18, 2011 at 06:12 PM Chaim_Ben-Yehuda Says:

Why all the slandering of Kedassia? What purpose does it serve?

27

 Jul 18, 2011 at 07:48 PM Kashrus Says:

Hate to break the news to you but in the USA, the kosher carcasses don't get a chauffeur driven limo from the shlacht hoiz to the stores. Lots of animals are on the truck, some kosher, some n'vaila, and some traif.

Get over it & stop going nuts over a story posted by a failed Jew!

28

 Jul 18, 2011 at 08:01 PM anon Says:

all you kedassia supporters shouldn't be on line - doesn't say much for kedassia (i'm sure you're not looking up this site in Triangle! (kedassia approved on internet office)
And as someone who always regarded Kedassia as the top in kasrus, it bothers me very much that they are skimming a few extra pounds (when they make LOADS!!!) in transport services. Its important to take note that all us chareidim in Stamford Hill (and beyond) only use Kedassia poultry and meat, so one can magine how much revenue comes in each week! I'm sure Kedassia will be working very hard from now on not to get caught again! its a big potsh in their ponim!

30

 Jul 18, 2011 at 08:58 PM scmaness Says:

to me l wouldn't want it period

31

 Jul 18, 2011 at 09:02 PM wondering Says:

nobody is addressing the issue: how did the "holy" Kedasiya stamp get on the chazzer in the first place...! and was there other chazerim that were delivered to kosher butcher stores without the owner's of the stores realizing that it is chazz..

32

 Jul 18, 2011 at 09:56 PM kosher Says:

Reply to #25  
Anonymous Says:

What on earth are you talking about? Tumah is not relevant to the subject at all, and no one even mentioned that the carcases were touching. Lastly, there are many differences between pork and cheylev.

Really perhaps you can tell me one. Is the cheylev or shuman of the pork chas v'sholom allowed.

33

 Jul 19, 2011 at 01:49 AM Kashrus Says:

Reply to #31  
wondering Says:

nobody is addressing the issue: how did the "holy" Kedasiya stamp get on the chazzer in the first place...! and was there other chazerim that were delivered to kosher butcher stores without the owner's of the stores realizing that it is chazz..

YOU are being motzi shem ra on the stores. NO ONE said there was a kedasiah stamp on the chazir and no one said the stores were getting the chazir! Please learn to read and COMPREHEND what you are reading before making stupid comments!

34

 Jul 19, 2011 at 08:39 AM Yoav1 Says:

Remember there is other mehadrin-level meat available in London, and it is usually cheaper. Despite snide comments about 'private hechsherim', remember that many of the world's finest kashrus organizations are not kehilla-specific. HaRav Rubin's hechsher in EY is not any worse for the fact that the kashrus fees do not have to subsidise other activities, and there is no reason that Dayan Westheim's hechsher should be any worse for it. Just ask yourself if it is a coincidence that Kedassia-affiliated rabbonim have spoken out so vociferously about other hechsherim (or even other milk - whoever heard of cholov-chutz before?) - does the fact that there are $$$ at stake have anything to do with it?

35

 Jul 19, 2011 at 09:02 AM OberBoberGrober Says:

I have seen this in the most strictest chassidishe shechitah houses(I will nt mention names). There is no problem with this. They don't touch each other, they are just carried in the same truck. They have their own stamps and everybody knows which one is koshe and which is not.

36

 Jul 19, 2011 at 10:46 AM House Fly Says:

Reply to #35  
OberBoberGrober Says:

I have seen this in the most strictest chassidishe shechitah houses(I will nt mention names). There is no problem with this. They don't touch each other, they are just carried in the same truck. They have their own stamps and everybody knows which one is koshe and which is not.

What about a fly or other insect flying from the chazar to the kosher meat spreading chazeri on the kosher meat.

37

 Aug 21, 2012 at 06:05 AM hugo Says:

What's the matter with you guys? The only watertight solution is EAT VEGETARIAN!
No-one needs meat. Putting the flesh of dead animals, kosher or otherwise, into your stomach is disgusting! Chicken fat killed (and kills) more Jews than Hitler.

38

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