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Washington - 'Justice For Rubashkin Petition' Reaches Threshold To Get White House Attention

Published on: September 22, 2011 09:38 PM
Last updated on: September 22, 2011 09:56 PM
By: VIN News/ HUffington Post
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Washington - A few weeks ago, the White House announced  plans for its “We The People ” project, which would allow ordinary Americans to use an online portal at the White House’s website to submit a petition, gather support for it and, if it managed to clear a participation threshold of 5,000 signatures within 30 days of submission, it would get the attention of “policy experts” who would “issue an official response.”

Well, this web portal went live today, and according to the latest results as of this hour the petition ‘Call an Investigation into Allegations of Prosecutorial & Judicial Misconduct in the Case of Sholom Rubashkin’, as of this hour 9:56 PM EDT has reached that threshold, with more than 5,000 signatures.

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Read Comments (97)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Sep 22, 2011 at 09:44 PM Facts1 Says:

Yes I signed up as well.

Its pretty simple you just give them an email address and name and they send you a login link.

If there was ever time that Jewish pressure against Obama would help, now is that time.

2

 Sep 22, 2011 at 09:53 PM RebKlemson Says:

I saw 4,928

3

 Sep 22, 2011 at 09:58 PM Mocher2011 Says:

מי כעמך ישראל!
Such a kiddush hashem! We reached it in one day!

4

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:02 PM shaya1011 Says:

hashem should send him asap for new year 1,00000,000 people should sign this

5

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:11 PM Materetsky Says:

Especially considering the amount of frum Jews who don't have internet, I am so proud that we hit this number! Yasher koach everyone :)

7

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:06 PM SandmanNY Says:

This could be helpful for Mr. Rubashkin. We need the same for Gilad Shalit and Jonathan Pollard. Enough is enough.

8

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:22 PM anonymous23 Says:

Its already passed 5000, but still not enough!

9

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:22 PM realistic Says:

Wow!
Over 5,000 votes in just a few hours.
Mi K'amcho Yisroel and what a meilitz yosher before rosh hashana.

10

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:31 PM trachtois Says:

Reb Heshi, quickly grab 4 Tylenol PM's, hit the sack for the next 20 hours and with the Aibeshter's help hopefully you"ll wake up feeling a bissel besser.

11

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:28 PM Facts1 Says:

Interesting the sponsor was Joel from Monroe.

As everyone else said Mi Keamcha Yisrael.

12

 Sep 22, 2011 at 11:05 PM Stumped?!? Says:

I'd really like to believe that your comments are nothing more than a very poor attempt at sarcasm.

If however I'm wrong, (which I have strong reason to believe that I am my friend) then you need very serious therapy!! Good luck to you....

13

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:48 PM bookman Says:

At the present time there are all together 12 petitions. Sholom Rubashkin has 5811 people signed on his petition. The only petition with more signatures is the marijuana petition. which has over 10,000 signatures. Of the other 10 petitions the next one is with about 2500 signatures.

14

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:35 PM Elie Says:

To #6

This is what you write about another jew 1 week before Rosh Hashana???
You are really a sick person - רפואה שלמה

15

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:40 PM Paulie123 Says:

How ironic that less than a week before Yom Hadin, you fail to judge a fellow Jew favorably. If you want Hashem to judge you favorably, have mercy on your felklow Jew and judge him favorably. Put your ill feelings aside and show rachmanus. Hashem does midah keneged midah and may not do the best for you.

17

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:47 PM Proud-2-B-Orthodox Says:

Nebach :( ...I truly feel for your neshama (if you are actually a Yid. I highly doubt such words can come from a Yiddishe neshama).

We will be coming to the Day of Judgement very shortly. Let us all (including myself) do Teshuva.

My Bracha to you (if you are a Yid) is that you should act, talk, and write like the way a Yid should carry themselves.

"Ksiva VeChasima Tova"

18

 Sep 22, 2011 at 10:54 PM Anonymous Says:

To no. 6 your pathetic.

19

 Sep 22, 2011 at 11:18 PM esther Says:

for your own sake,especially since it's elul,ask your rav if you our allowed to do that and follow his psak.

20

 Sep 22, 2011 at 11:32 PM REALIST Says:

Your sad comment is an even greater Chilul Hashem.
For your family's sake, I hope that one short week from now the RBS"O is a bit more tolerant of your lack of Ahavas Yisroel when He's up to your page.

21

 Sep 22, 2011 at 11:35 PM stamm Says:

to no.6, i wonder if you read his letter to his family of his accepting that this is Hashem's will etc. I wonder if you would have the same reaction after the appeal was refused. I know you will say you didn't do any crimes, but I am sure as all Jews you have sinned to Hashem which results in punishment unless you are a tzadik. but if you were a tzadik you would not comment the way you did.

you most probably wrote what you wrote to get some attention, so you got it. Have a gut gebentcht yor!!

22

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:04 AM UNITED WE STAND Says:

In one hour almost 2000 more signatures!

23

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:05 AM stamm Says:

aha, so by having ahavas yisroel we are creating a Chilul Hashem! So you think he deserves 27 years for his crime?
So what do you deserve for loshon hora, bittul torah, embarrasing someone, lying/cheating a couple of times, hating someone etc, forgot to make a brocha achroina, any brochas levotolo?

24

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:11 AM LiberalismIsADisease Says:

Now the regime has your email addresses plus whatever other info you left and he will use it !

25

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:14 AM mom Says:

Why is everyone beating up on #6?? If someone commits a crime should he not show public remorse? Certainly increases the chillul Hashem aspect of this whole sorry affair.
And does Gilad Shalit, a Jewish boy who is probably being tortured daily, for 5 years now assuming he's still alive, deserve LESS of our tefillos and petition efforts? Someone who commits fraud is petition-worthy, but someone who is kidnapped by terrorists is not? Is it because Gilad is not "yeshivish?" Hashem yaazor.

26

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:19 AM BoruchN Says:

Wonderful for those who signed the petition.
I was one of them.
Perhaps, BE"H, something good and wholesome will become of this.
As to #6, my fellow Jews, don't answer him...remember was 'Mishle' says?

27

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:22 AM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Obama will not pardon Rubashkin. Get real. Serious problems need serious solutions, not internet based election year gimmicks. First off, and this will come as a shock to most of you, the evidence of criminal activity in this case far outweighs any alleged prosecutorial misconduct. But making a clemeny or pardon application requires a show of remorse. The lack of that showing here coupled with the evidence of obstruction of justice (including aiding the flight of Omara, the destruction of evidence) makes any effort at a pardon waaaaayyyyyyy too premature. In the American legal system, it will not be relevant until the end of the second term of the next president - if SMR shows genuine remorse and restitution - that a pardon application will be taken seriously. It doesn't matter what Nat Lewin tells you, or what the Chabad spin machibe tells you - this is fact.

28

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:27 AM Shaul in Monsey Says:

One more point - had this been a petition to review sentencing guidelines for all convicted white collar criminals, and not about the injustices done to one yiddishe nebech case, it would have been 10,000 times more effective. Rubashkin is not a victim, and portraying him as one has not in the past, nor will in the future, be an effective portrayal that will garner any real help for him.

29

 Sep 23, 2011 at 08:08 AM shredready Says:

Reply to #25  
mom Says:

Why is everyone beating up on #6?? If someone commits a crime should he not show public remorse? Certainly increases the chillul Hashem aspect of this whole sorry affair.
And does Gilad Shalit, a Jewish boy who is probably being tortured daily, for 5 years now assuming he's still alive, deserve LESS of our tefillos and petition efforts? Someone who commits fraud is petition-worthy, but someone who is kidnapped by terrorists is not? Is it because Gilad is not "yeshivish?" Hashem yaazor.

why should he show remorse I am sure he can find some loophole in halacha that his actions where nor an averha al pie halacha therefore he should not have to same I am sorry to gentles

anyway he is dressed frum ( I think he is not frum since he committed fraud and all the other scammers in jail ) and that all that matters to this crowd

fraud stealing is not an issue for them and they have proved that over and over defending and denying that any frum person has ever committed financial fraud and that no one should sit even a day just because some stupid secularar court found them guilty

anyway SMR supplied cheap meat to frum people so who cares how it was done

every signature is an added chillul hashem think about that before ehlul, since it does not acknowledge any crimes that he did anything wrong that he pat anything for his crimes.

If it would have said yes he did wrong, yes he committed crimes, yes he committed fraud, but 27 years is a gross injustice you could get none tea drinkers to sign it,

it shows he should get off simply because he is a jew.

sorry that is not a legal defense

30

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:29 AM Shaul in Monsey Says:

#6, when they can't attack you on the merits of the issue, all they have left is the name calling which in reality is a concession that they have nothing better to say.

31

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:29 AM eighthcomment Says:

Genius-theres a mitzvah of pidyon shvuyim and it doesn't apply to goýim- u have a problem with the Torah? With following it? Ur senators can't change that Jewish guilt-

32

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:30 AM mbf51 Says:

to #6&16; anyone who can state that yid who not commited a violent crime deserves jail time because jury of aralim & a judge a machshafoh decided so is not mzerah yisroel! who are they to judge a yid?

33

 Sep 23, 2011 at 01:00 AM Cool Masmid Says:

Hey, he is not walking yet so why do you call him a 'walking' chilul H-shem. Just hard to believe there are so many misguided Jews out there like yourself. Sholom Mordechai is a tzadik yesoid oylam and is a korban for klal yisroiel.

34

 Sep 23, 2011 at 01:21 AM Minsky Says:

Is there any reason to sign once the 5000 signature mark was reached? if yes what's the reason?

35

 Sep 23, 2011 at 01:36 AM Mordechai Says:

Reply to #3  
Mocher2011 Says:

מי כעמך ישראל!
Such a kiddush hashem! We reached it in one day!

7500 signatures gained in just 12 hours

36

 Sep 23, 2011 at 02:48 AM PhillipB Says:

There are more pressing issues than this convicted thief to waste our time and
energy on. He will NOT be released for many years..... pray all your want....
He is in prison and will remain in prison for at least the next 10 years.

37

 Sep 23, 2011 at 03:38 AM Darth_Zeidah Says:

Clearly, freedom of speech is qualified.

38

 Sep 23, 2011 at 07:07 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Facts1 Says:

Yes I signed up as well.

Its pretty simple you just give them an email address and name and they send you a login link.

If there was ever time that Jewish pressure against Obama would help, now is that time.

what has this got to do with "pressure against Obama"? At this point we're looking for obamas help. This is a Jewish matter, not a zionist issue.

39

 Sep 23, 2011 at 07:24 AM I agree Says:

Our system has to be respected. And he's an embarrassment. I'm amazed he won't publicly encourage other Jews to do live more honestly and ethically than he does. His letters say nothing about his wrongdoing or tshuva.

40

 Sep 23, 2011 at 07:24 AM Anonymous Says:

I hope you never get in trouble with the law. By the way, check out Toyota's testifying in Congress where he openly admits causing people's death by negligence and he got away with it completely then tell me about American justice.

41

 Sep 23, 2011 at 07:27 AM iib001 Says:

Don't pay attention to the other posts you are 100% right! thanks for speaking up about the truth.

42

 Sep 23, 2011 at 07:49 AM TannaKamma Says:

Thank G-d 8,073 people (as of this morning) disagree with you...

43

 Sep 23, 2011 at 07:52 AM Anonymous Says:

"Hershel",

It is a sad commentary on your philosophy that you wouldn't expend the slightest of effort to help a Jew, yet would make a whole letter writing campaign to keep a good person unjustly imprisoned.

You are not concerned about "hilul" hashem your coments belie that. Your comments are the true chilul hashem as understood by all.

And remember that there is no easy teshuva for chilul hashem like yours.

44

 Sep 23, 2011 at 07:52 AM DB_from_LI Says:

Since some still don't get it I will try to explain it again. This petition & letters from politicians & former AG's aren't asking for a guilty or innocent verdict. They are requesting a FAIR TRIAL........ Irrelevant is the fact of crimes committed or not committed by Sholom Rubashkin, what is being called to act upon is the miscarriage of justice by our own judicial system.

45

 Sep 23, 2011 at 08:24 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
LiberalismIsADisease Says:

Now the regime has your email addresses plus whatever other info you left and he will use it !

And if they want to get my email address otherwise, they can't get it?????

46

 Sep 23, 2011 at 08:39 AM Not A Criminal Says:

To all those who think Rubashkin committed a crime - If you were well informed of everything about the Rubashkin case, you would not be so quick as to say he broke a law or did something illegal. How are all of you going to face the court in Shomayim when your time comes? How do you want Hashem to judge you?

47

 Sep 23, 2011 at 08:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
mom Says:

Why is everyone beating up on #6?? If someone commits a crime should he not show public remorse? Certainly increases the chillul Hashem aspect of this whole sorry affair.
And does Gilad Shalit, a Jewish boy who is probably being tortured daily, for 5 years now assuming he's still alive, deserve LESS of our tefillos and petition efforts? Someone who commits fraud is petition-worthy, but someone who is kidnapped by terrorists is not? Is it because Gilad is not "yeshivish?" Hashem yaazor.

Funny,

I don't see any "yeshivish" calling for writting letters to the Arabs not to release Schallit. Why would your friend write to politicians to continue to keep Sholom Rubashkin unjustly incarcerated? Is it because he wears a black hat?? Is that the source of your hate and bigotry?? Of a fellow Jew?? Nebach

48

 Sep 23, 2011 at 08:49 AM CommonSense Says:

Reply to #15  
Paulie123 Says:

How ironic that less than a week before Yom Hadin, you fail to judge a fellow Jew favorably. If you want Hashem to judge you favorably, have mercy on your felklow Jew and judge him favorably. Put your ill feelings aside and show rachmanus. Hashem does midah keneged midah and may not do the best for you.

Without getting involved in the particulars of the case..just by reading his comment and yours..I can tell you that Teshuva only works if there's regret.
So you aren't addressing his comment at all.

49

 Sep 23, 2011 at 08:56 AM JoshB Says:

I have to agree with #6, he was offered a plea deal, he refused since ha had a bracha of hatzlocho from the Rebbe zichronah livracha. this is a blatant display of arrogance.

Bank fraud is bank fraud no matter how you spin it.

50

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:06 AM realistic Says:

You're missing the whole point here. We're not asking for clemency. What we want is that rubashkin gets a fair trial, which he's entitled to and his lawyers believe he was denied. Your assumtion that he's a convicted felon etc. is based on his unfair trial and that's exactly what we want the government to look in to.

51

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:23 AM Dina_Demalchusa Says:

Thank your Hershl. You are absolutely right. I wished there would be 5,000 frum Jews who oppose the crimes and chilul Hashem perpertrated by this rosho.

52

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:30 AM realistic Says:

Reply to #32  
mbf51 Says:

to #6&16; anyone who can state that yid who not commited a violent crime deserves jail time because jury of aralim & a judge a machshafoh decided so is not mzerah yisroel! who are they to judge a yid?

Stop with the stupidity. This isn't good even for a joke.
Comments like yours are an embarrassment to all yidden. Besides you never know when it'll be your chance to stand before a judge ch"v and if the mentality towards them is as you portray it to be, you can prepare for the worst.
Think before you write. If you're in desperate need of attention try to get it some other way or get a doctor.

53

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:39 AM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #31  
eighthcomment Says:

Genius-theres a mitzvah of pidyon shvuyim and it doesn't apply to goýim- u have a problem with the Torah? With following it? Ur senators can't change that Jewish guilt-

Apparently you have a problem with the Torah - your problem is that your Torah is missing parshas Eikev and doesn't have 613 mitzvos - which brings into question your authenticity as a yid. Rubashkin STOLE. Ever hear of Lo Signoiv? That you can ignore, but someone speaking his opinion in America and all you do is name call. Hypocrite.

54

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:41 AM Ariela Says:

It is not about his guilt or not, it is about the bias' of his punishment. Which has been a going thing for Jews in certain part of the country of good ole USA is to throw the book at them. I know personally if certain Justice Systems in USA get a feeling your Jewish they use the law against you to the extreme. I have seen this happen many times Jews suffering the maximum penalty where a goy receives the minimum for same offense . Jew's need to get out of USA country and go home to ertz Israel and begin preparation for changing Israel's bias as well. This Jew against Jew stuff is enough.

55

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:42 AM belzer gabbai Says:

Reply to #51  
Dina_Demalchusa Says:

Thank your Hershl. You are absolutely right. I wished there would be 5,000 frum Jews who oppose the crimes and chilul Hashem perpertrated by this rosho.

If you ever double park you also broke the law. Since you're so concerned with dina demalchusa, I wish a judge locks you up for life for double parking.

56

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:43 AM Raphael_Kaufman Says:

SMR has already received Justice (Din). What he needs now, as do all of us at this time of year, is Mercy (Rachamim)

57

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:43 AM Dina_Demalchusa Says:

You are 100% correct. Rubashkin violated mulitiple halachos and made a chilul Hashem, while Shalit was fighting for klal Yisroel.

Why are we petitioning to free Rubashkin, and not Shalit? Which would be a greater mitzvoh of pidyon shevuyim?

A lot of people have mentioned that this is the wrong attitude. We should judge our fellow Jews favorably especially before the Yemei Hadin. Well, I fear that our support for Rubashkin will create a massive kitrug against klal Yisrael. Being mechalel shem Shomayim is never a good thing. The Mishnah in Pirkei Avos says that even an unintentional chilul Hashem is still a chilul Hashem (echod shogeig v'echod meizid b'chilul Hashem).

Klal Yisrael, please take a lesson from this tragedy. Let's take note that had Rubashkin obeyed the halachah, this never would have happened. The clear message from shomayim is to be zohir in the halachos of gezeiloh, geneivas daas, and dina demalchusa (all of which apply to goyim, as stated in Rambam and Shulchan Aruch). Our children must not get the message that one can lie, cheat and defraud, and yet be called a tzadik and a baal bitachon. Stop the madness before it's too late.

58

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:44 AM realistic Says:

Hitler ym"sh said that there's no need for him to kill american jews because they'll kill themselves. With suh comments as #6 and 16 I see his words becoming reality.

59

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:46 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
LiberalismIsADisease Says:

Now the regime has your email addresses plus whatever other info you left and he will use it !

You mean including IP address to pinpoint the exact location of your device?

60

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:48 AM ThatEli Says:

100% correct in spirit. However, I wouldn't actually take a position that might harm SMR- not sure if you were serious about writing to the President. That being said, when will "Heimeshe" Jews learn that stealing is one of the worst aveiros in the Torah? The cause of the mabul was stealing.

61

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:48 AM Dina_Demalchusa Says:

Reply to #21  
stamm Says:

to no.6, i wonder if you read his letter to his family of his accepting that this is Hashem's will etc. I wonder if you would have the same reaction after the appeal was refused. I know you will say you didn't do any crimes, but I am sure as all Jews you have sinned to Hashem which results in punishment unless you are a tzadik. but if you were a tzadik you would not comment the way you did.

you most probably wrote what you wrote to get some attention, so you got it. Have a gut gebentcht yor!!

Writing a letter is easy, deeds are a lot harder. In the letter, SMR pretends to be a baal bitachon. But a true baal bitachon does not break the halochoh in order to make make parnossoh. And yes, I do have a yidishe neshomoh. That's why I'm so worried about the future of klal Yisrael if we have such support for a criminal, but much less for Shalit.

62

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:50 AM shredready Says:

Reply to #32  
mbf51 Says:

to #6&16; anyone who can state that yid who not commited a violent crime deserves jail time because jury of aralim & a judge a machshafoh decided so is not mzerah yisroel! who are they to judge a yid?

there is the problem and why you will not succeed

if you feel the sentencing guideline is wrong

it should be wrong for all yid and gentile

But that is not the issue for 99% of the people here the issue is simply black hat frum=no jail time

the sentencing guideline and all the others stuff is just a smoke screen

you guy do not care how many people are in prison as long as it is not a yid

63

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:50 AM Dina_Demalchusa Says:

Reply to #25  
mom Says:

Why is everyone beating up on #6?? If someone commits a crime should he not show public remorse? Certainly increases the chillul Hashem aspect of this whole sorry affair.
And does Gilad Shalit, a Jewish boy who is probably being tortured daily, for 5 years now assuming he's still alive, deserve LESS of our tefillos and petition efforts? Someone who commits fraud is petition-worthy, but someone who is kidnapped by terrorists is not? Is it because Gilad is not "yeshivish?" Hashem yaazor.

Thank you for saying this. A breath of fresh air that I so badly needed.

64

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:51 AM Raphael Kaufman Says:

Reply to #50  
realistic Says:

You're missing the whole point here. We're not asking for clemency. What we want is that rubashkin gets a fair trial, which he's entitled to and his lawyers believe he was denied. Your assumtion that he's a convicted felon etc. is based on his unfair trial and that's exactly what we want the government to look in to.

If you believe that SMR's trail was unfair, why are you petitioning the President? He cannot order a new trial. He can, however, grant clemency so that is exactly what your are asking. The Supreme Court could throw out his conviction and order a new trial, but any new trial would undoubtedly find him guilty again as he was condemned out of his own mouth It might order a lesser sentence but I wouldn't bet on it as the original sentence of 27 years was well within Federal sentencing guidlines. Presidential clemency is SMR's only realistic hope..

65

 Sep 23, 2011 at 09:53 AM shredready Says:

Reply to #31  
eighthcomment Says:

Genius-theres a mitzvah of pidyon shvuyim and it doesn't apply to goýim- u have a problem with the Torah? With following it? Ur senators can't change that Jewish guilt-

pidyon shvuyim

is for prisoners of war

not convicted felons

66

 Sep 23, 2011 at 10:00 AM DavidCohen Says:

Reply to #50  
realistic Says:

You're missing the whole point here. We're not asking for clemency. What we want is that rubashkin gets a fair trial, which he's entitled to and his lawyers believe he was denied. Your assumtion that he's a convicted felon etc. is based on his unfair trial and that's exactly what we want the government to look in to.

Of course his lawyers believe he was denied a fair trial. You know who benefits from repeated appeals? The lawyers! If he was acquitted they'd have no more billable hours, but keep the appeals coming and they live happily.

67

 Sep 23, 2011 at 10:02 AM Dina_Demalchusa Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

Funny,

I don't see any "yeshivish" calling for writting letters to the Arabs not to release Schallit. Why would your friend write to politicians to continue to keep Sholom Rubashkin unjustly incarcerated? Is it because he wears a black hat?? Is that the source of your hate and bigotry?? Of a fellow Jew?? Nebach

# 47 said: "I don't see any "yeshivish" calling for writting letters to the Arabs not to release Schallit."

What an asinine comment.
That point is that we don't see any "yeshivish" petitioning Obama to work to release Shalit. The biggest mitzvoh of pidyon shevuyim in our times.

68

 Sep 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
LiberalismIsADisease Says:

Now the regime has your email addresses plus whatever other info you left and he will use it !

The fact you are on the computer tells all who wish to know who and where you are. Get real if you do not stand for something you will fall for anything.

69

 Sep 23, 2011 at 10:11 AM Dina_Demalchusa Says:

Reply to #43  
Anonymous Says:

"Hershel",

It is a sad commentary on your philosophy that you wouldn't expend the slightest of effort to help a Jew, yet would make a whole letter writing campaign to keep a good person unjustly imprisoned.

You are not concerned about "hilul" hashem your coments belie that. Your comments are the true chilul hashem as understood by all.

And remember that there is no easy teshuva for chilul hashem like yours.

Why is it a chilul Hashem to say that the orthodox Jewish community is opposed to criminality and that we support the rule of law. I personally would not go so far as to write to politicians. But I am doing my best to make other Yidden realize that asking for clemency for Rubashkin *is* a chilul Hashem.

When Al Sharpton campaigns on behalf of a black convicted criminal, does that engender respect for the black community or the opposite? Think about it.

70

 Sep 23, 2011 at 10:27 AM Brian Says:

All those who are bringing Shalit into this are moronic. Shalit had a military war started to try to secure his release. We all stood behind it and prayed for his safe return and still do. No grassroots required when you already have an international government already working on your behalf. Yet if we grassroots don't fight for Rubashkin, who will?

71

 Sep 23, 2011 at 11:00 AM concerned Says:

and this may get as far as 47 congressman and senators letters did to the AG? It does not hurt to try. If Obama pardonned SMR would you vote for him? Most responders on this news site show a rather strong dislike for him. I expect a reply to be leave it to the courts and pass it back to Holder for review......

72

 Sep 23, 2011 at 11:07 AM Dina_Demalchusa Says:

Reply to #55  
belzer gabbai Says:

If you ever double park you also broke the law. Since you're so concerned with dina demalchusa, I wish a judge locks you up for life for double parking.

I do my best to avoid double parking. And so should you. (And if a policeman tickets me, I certainly don't accuse him of anti-semitism.)

You want to release Rubashkin, and yet hope that I go to prison? Interesting.

73

 Sep 23, 2011 at 11:15 AM Dina_Demalchusa Says:

Reply to #70  
Brian Says:

All those who are bringing Shalit into this are moronic. Shalit had a military war started to try to secure his release. We all stood behind it and prayed for his safe return and still do. No grassroots required when you already have an international government already working on your behalf. Yet if we grassroots don't fight for Rubashkin, who will?

The USA pressured Israel to give up its plan to free Shalit before withdrawing from Gaza. We should certainly petition Obama ro work for the release of Shalit. He has much more power than Israel does.

And Shalit is very relevant here. Many posters are pointing out the importance of ahavas Yisroel. Fine. But why should ahavas Yisrael not extend to Shalit, who has been incarcerated by terroists for five years for the crime of fighting for klal Yisrael.

74

 Sep 23, 2011 at 11:27 AM eighthcomment Says:

Reply to #53  
Shaul in Monsey Says:

Apparently you have a problem with the Torah - your problem is that your Torah is missing parshas Eikev and doesn't have 613 mitzvos - which brings into question your authenticity as a yid. Rubashkin STOLE. Ever hear of Lo Signoiv? That you can ignore, but someone speaking his opinion in America and all you do is name call. Hypocrite.

Even if a yid is a covicted murderer yes murderer in the goyish systen there is a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim- wow the ignorance and lack of warmth is shocking

75

 Sep 23, 2011 at 11:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #67  
Dina_Demalchusa Says:

# 47 said: "I don't see any "yeshivish" calling for writting letters to the Arabs not to release Schallit."

What an asinine comment.
That point is that we don't see any "yeshivish" petitioning Obama to work to release Shalit. The biggest mitzvoh of pidyon shevuyim in our times.

Its not an asinine comment because your despicable buddy wants to write to congress AGAINST SMR. So it was a direct challenge.

I do not see a petition for Schallit by the non black hat crowd at the White House. Thus you are at least as guilty. I have seen many Yeshivish involved in other petitions for Schallit, yet apparently every MO, according to you, wants harsher and harsher sentences for SMR. Apparently because he wears a hat and is a ma'amon.

76

 Sep 23, 2011 at 11:35 AM qazxc Says:

Why can't Herschl (#6), or anyone else for that matter, express an unpopular opinion without risking personal insults, vilification and having his status as a yid challenged?

I too disagree with his opinion but what do people gain by making it personal? Will your insults get SMR out of jail any sooner?

How sad that in so many circles being frum has come to mean closed mindedness, small mindedness, pettiness and hateful attitudes towards anyone who doesn't march to the party drummer.

77

 Sep 23, 2011 at 11:59 AM Howard Says:

Reply to #74  
eighthcomment Says:

Even if a yid is a covicted murderer yes murderer in the goyish systen there is a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim- wow the ignorance and lack of warmth is shocking

No, it's YOUR ignorance that's shocking. So according to your perversion of Torah, a Jew can commit the most horrendous crimes -- even murder -- and we are obligated to try to free him? Congratulations -- you just justified every anti-Semitic remark made by Hitler, the Nazis, skinheads, etc., about how Jews are untrustworthy, unethecal, disloyal, only care for their own, etc. You are a disgrace.

78

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:09 PM Dina_Demalchusa Says:

Reply to #74  
eighthcomment Says:

Even if a yid is a covicted murderer yes murderer in the goyish systen there is a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim- wow the ignorance and lack of warmth is shocking

Wrong! YOU are guilty of ignorance. Many poskim (including Rav Pam tzatz"l) say that there is NO mitzvah of pidyon shevuyim for a convicted criminal in the US. If there would be, you would be making a mockery of a government that, although imperfect, is doing its best to operate a system of law, which is one of the shivah mitzvos benei Noach.

And I'm sorry, I just don't feel warmth for such a rosho. Did you feel warmth for the fellow in Monsey who sold treifa meat for years? Well, Rubashkin's crimes are just as disgusting. The Torah describes fraud as to'eivoh (Rambam and Shulchan Aruch say that this applies to defrauding goyim as well). Would you feel warmth to a yid who performs that other aveiroh also called to'eivoh?

79

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:21 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

The personal insults are there to fill space because no one who claims Rubashkin got an unfair trial and doesn't deserve 27 years has any smart comments to make in favor of their argument.

Rubashkin was sentenced to the low end of his the guidelines after he was convicted at trial. He was sentenced to 25 years for his bank fraud, mail fraud and related crimes and he got 2 more years for lying on the stand. He was sentenced k'daas uk'din according to the sentencing guidelines that are the law in America. The trial was 100% according to law. I mean, if you consider going against the US government, who can take out any government in the world they want to, fair to begin with. They can handle Qaddafi, I'm sure Rubashkin wasn't so difficult.

Had he plea bargained he would have gotten 12-15, and had he plea bargained, shown remorse, and made restitution, instead of obstructing justice and giving the proverbial finger to the Feds, he probably could have made a deal for single digit jail time. There's no mitzva of pidyon shvuyim here and that is a FACT. Chessed, yes, but there is no din pdyon shvuyim for a convicted felon who made his own situation worse by playing in the media.

80

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
stamm Says:

to no.6, i wonder if you read his letter to his family of his accepting that this is Hashem's will etc. I wonder if you would have the same reaction after the appeal was refused. I know you will say you didn't do any crimes, but I am sure as all Jews you have sinned to Hashem which results in punishment unless you are a tzadik. but if you were a tzadik you would not comment the way you did.

you most probably wrote what you wrote to get some attention, so you got it. Have a gut gebentcht yor!!

I will sign once he shows even 1 minute of remorse. What's the big deal for him to say he is sorry he hurt so many people? Think of the poor teenagers who worked without getting paid and the ones who breathed in the clorox without masks?

81

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:25 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #76  
qazxc Says:

Why can't Herschl (#6), or anyone else for that matter, express an unpopular opinion without risking personal insults, vilification and having his status as a yid challenged?

I too disagree with his opinion but what do people gain by making it personal? Will your insults get SMR out of jail any sooner?

How sad that in so many circles being frum has come to mean closed mindedness, small mindedness, pettiness and hateful attitudes towards anyone who doesn't march to the party drummer.

So why haven't you made a petition to reform all sentencing guidelines for all convicted white collar criminals and only support Rubashkin? Maybe because you were raised a racist and believe goyim are nobodies.

Look at the posters here on VIN that call Reade a machshayfa. She did nothing but follow the law. And since the law and evidence was against their hero, she's a machshayfa? For every curse she gets from this shtetel I hope she gets roiv brochos bshevach and arichas yomim v'shonim for defending the laws of this great country.

82

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #74  
eighthcomment Says:

Even if a yid is a covicted murderer yes murderer in the goyish systen there is a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim- wow the ignorance and lack of warmth is shocking

What if a goy did this? Would you still sign a petition? What if a Conservative or MO Jew did this? You would say "guilty" and lock him up forever.

83

 Sep 23, 2011 at 12:26 PM Dina_Demalchusa Says:

Reply to #75  
Anonymous Says:

Its not an asinine comment because your despicable buddy wants to write to congress AGAINST SMR. So it was a direct challenge.

I do not see a petition for Schallit by the non black hat crowd at the White House. Thus you are at least as guilty. I have seen many Yeshivish involved in other petitions for Schallit, yet apparently every MO, according to you, wants harsher and harsher sentences for SMR. Apparently because he wears a hat and is a ma'amon.

Your first point is fair. I agree (as I wrote above) that I would not go so far as to write to politicians against Rubashkin.

But I must disagree when you say, "apparently every MO, according to you, wants harsher and harsher sentences for SMR". No one is saying that!

"Apparently because he wears a hat and is a ma'amon.''

I also wear a hat (it's even black).

Your typo ("ma'amon'' instead of "ma'amin") is very ironic because a follower of R' Moshe ben Maimon (Rambam) knows that defrauding a goy is to'eivah.
And I would like to reiterate that SMR is NOT a maamin. If he were, he would have realized that parnossoh comes from Hashem, and he wouldn't have broken the halachah (to'eivah no less!) to make a living.

84

 Sep 23, 2011 at 01:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
realistic Says:

Wow!
Over 5,000 votes in just a few hours.
Mi K'amcho Yisroel and what a meilitz yosher before rosh hashana.

exactly WHO is supposed be that meilitz yoisher before Rosh Hashona? The convicted felon sitting in jail?

85

 Sep 23, 2011 at 01:27 PM Good Shabbos Says:

The petition website is currently unavailable due to maintenance. I wonder if all those signatures has anything to do with that. (I wouldn't vote for O, even if he pardoned SMR, Pollard and got Shalit released, but, he should do those things any way.)

86

 Sep 23, 2011 at 01:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Elie Says:

To #6

This is what you write about another jew 1 week before Rosh Hashana???
You are really a sick person - רפואה שלמה

what difference does it make that it is before Rosh Hashona?

If the man is a criminal, shame on you for giving him more publicity!

87

 Sep 23, 2011 at 01:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Paulie123 Says:

How ironic that less than a week before Yom Hadin, you fail to judge a fellow Jew favorably. If you want Hashem to judge you favorably, have mercy on your felklow Jew and judge him favorably. Put your ill feelings aside and show rachmanus. Hashem does midah keneged midah and may not do the best for you.

judge a fellow Jew favorably how? that he DIDN'T do the crimes? we know he did. what are you trying to bring out?

88

 Sep 23, 2011 at 01:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
stamm Says:

to no.6, i wonder if you read his letter to his family of his accepting that this is Hashem's will etc. I wonder if you would have the same reaction after the appeal was refused. I know you will say you didn't do any crimes, but I am sure as all Jews you have sinned to Hashem which results in punishment unless you are a tzadik. but if you were a tzadik you would not comment the way you did.

you most probably wrote what you wrote to get some attention, so you got it. Have a gut gebentcht yor!!

your (il)logic is ridiculous!

SMR's obvious crimes compare how to crimes people do against Hashem?

Your comparison is stupid, as is the great crop of SKR-admirers who crawl out of the woodwork to say "oh, it's chodesh Elul, you must not b eJewish to judge SMR unfavorably!"

What is there to judge? He was alerady found guilty of the charges, and his appeal was denied.

what more do you want? What judgment are you looking for? that he was innocent of all charges? Is there anyone stupid enough to claim that?

89

 Sep 23, 2011 at 02:18 PM Gefilte Fish Says:

Reply to #24  
LiberalismIsADisease Says:

Now the regime has your email addresses plus whatever other info you left and he will use it !

And you really thought I put my real email address and name? That's what disposable email addresses are for. I don't need the white house spamming my inbox.

90

 Sep 23, 2011 at 03:44 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #74  
eighthcomment Says:

Even if a yid is a covicted murderer yes murderer in the goyish systen there is a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim- wow the ignorance and lack of warmth is shocking

So where is your collection and petition for Levi Aaron.

91

 Sep 23, 2011 at 04:01 PM Unfair Punishment Says:

Reply to #90  
Shaul in Monsey Says:

So where is your collection and petition for Levi Aaron.

Levi Aaron is a murderer. There's a vast difference between him and SMR. Let's not compare the two cases. Even if SMR was guilty of something, he didn't hurt anyone at all and the punishment doesn't fit the crime. How would he have been punished if this had happened if we had a Sanhedrin and a Beis Din?

92

 Sep 23, 2011 at 04:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #90  
Shaul in Monsey Says:

So where is your collection and petition for Levi Aaron.

That's clearly something you would be doing. And proudly so, because he murdered a child from the community of those with beards. Your hateful comments about the "Jews with Beards" will not be forgotten.

93

 Sep 24, 2011 at 08:36 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #92  
Anonymous Says:

That's clearly something you would be doing. And proudly so, because he murdered a child from the community of those with beards. Your hateful comments about the "Jews with Beards" will not be forgotten.

I'm scared. Shaking in my boots.

Poster 74 wrote "Even if a yid is a covicted murderer yes murderer in the goyish systen there is a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim- wow the ignorance and lack of warmth is shocking " And I can assure you he is as much of a moron as you are. My question to him was where is the petition for Levi Aron, meaning THE COMMENT IS RIDICULOUS. I WAS POINTING OUT THE STUPIDITY OF THE COMMENT, NOT suggesting there should be such a peition.

But there should be a petition for people like you whose yivishe edumucation prevent them from producing more than a fourth grade level of comments here - as a sport I'm bored with the lack of intelligence.

94

 Sep 24, 2011 at 10:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #93  
Shaul in Monsey Says:

I'm scared. Shaking in my boots.

Poster 74 wrote "Even if a yid is a covicted murderer yes murderer in the goyish systen there is a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim- wow the ignorance and lack of warmth is shocking " And I can assure you he is as much of a moron as you are. My question to him was where is the petition for Levi Aron, meaning THE COMMENT IS RIDICULOUS. I WAS POINTING OUT THE STUPIDITY OF THE COMMENT, NOT suggesting there should be such a peition.

But there should be a petition for people like you whose yivishe edumucation prevent them from producing more than a fourth grade level of comments here - as a sport I'm bored with the lack of intelligence.

So your reposnse to someone calling you on your hateful comments that are worthy of the Nazis is to assume that A) it is a yeshishe person, and B) that a yeshivishe person is incapable of logical thought.

I can't answer on A, because I don't know who that was, however if it was yeshivish peson, it is obvious that he is much more logical than you.

The absolute fact is that your comment do not shine wit logic at all, they drip with venemous hate. I feel sorry for those who are unfortunately close to that they have to deal with such a bitter unhappy person. May you soon be put out of your misery.

95

 Sep 25, 2011 at 07:28 AM wondering Says:

Reply to #50  
realistic Says:

You're missing the whole point here. We're not asking for clemency. What we want is that rubashkin gets a fair trial, which he's entitled to and his lawyers believe he was denied. Your assumtion that he's a convicted felon etc. is based on his unfair trial and that's exactly what we want the government to look in to.

do his lawyers think he didnt get a fair trial or a fair SENTENCE? and which lawyers anyway? the ones who defended him in the first trial or the ones who led the appeal?

96

 Sep 25, 2011 at 07:31 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #74  
eighthcomment Says:

Even if a yid is a covicted murderer yes murderer in the goyish systen there is a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim- wow the ignorance and lack of warmth is shocking

if so are you leading the charge for pidyon shivuyin in the Leiby case or are you waiting for the murderer to be convicted first? also what is the actual halachic source for your claim? at what point would you or your posek consider someone a rodef who should be in jail? hmmmm?

97

 Sep 25, 2011 at 07:34 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

Funny,

I don't see any "yeshivish" calling for writting letters to the Arabs not to release Schallit. Why would your friend write to politicians to continue to keep Sholom Rubashkin unjustly incarcerated? Is it because he wears a black hat?? Is that the source of your hate and bigotry?? Of a fellow Jew?? Nebach

even funnier is that your nasty comment had no connection to what the original poster said. MOM makes a very good point that should be addressd on the merits not by inferring unrelated conclusions.

98

 Sep 25, 2011 at 11:34 AM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #94  
Anonymous Says:

So your reposnse to someone calling you on your hateful comments that are worthy of the Nazis is to assume that A) it is a yeshishe person, and B) that a yeshivishe person is incapable of logical thought.

I can't answer on A, because I don't know who that was, however if it was yeshivish peson, it is obvious that he is much more logical than you.

The absolute fact is that your comment do not shine wit logic at all, they drip with venemous hate. I feel sorry for those who are unfortunately close to that they have to deal with such a bitter unhappy person. May you soon be put out of your misery.

I have a very strong command of the English langugae, above average, and I have no clue what you are saying. Zero. I can only infer from such substandard writing that you had a yishivishe edumucation that failed you in every way.

The bottom line here is no one cares about halacha and what the Torah says. When it fits you, the pidyon shvuyim is a mitzva for even a murderer and when it doesn't fit you then the poster is not a yid. All stupidity.

Tell me how Rubashkin is a hero for being oiver Lo Signoiv against a yid? And then explain where it says in the Torah that Lo Signoiv is not as bad as Lo Sirtzach.

99

 Sep 27, 2011 at 04:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #98  
Shaul in Monsey Says:

I have a very strong command of the English langugae, above average, and I have no clue what you are saying. Zero. I can only infer from such substandard writing that you had a yishivishe edumucation that failed you in every way.

The bottom line here is no one cares about halacha and what the Torah says. When it fits you, the pidyon shvuyim is a mitzva for even a murderer and when it doesn't fit you then the poster is not a yid. All stupidity.

Tell me how Rubashkin is a hero for being oiver Lo Signoiv against a yid? And then explain where it says in the Torah that Lo Signoiv is not as bad as Lo Sirtzach.

I had to laugh at your note that you had a strong command of the English lagugae, but I agree with your real points.

Not only is it abhorrent that a supposedly frum person has such a krum outlook, but that on the day before Rosh Hashonah he wishes you dies soon says enough about who he is.

What is the point of your continuing to argue with such a mental defective? He will never hear you, let alone understand you!

100

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