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Brooklyn, NY - Williamsburg-Borough Park Bus To DOT: Women In Back Of Bus Policy Will End

Published on: October 26, 2011 09:06 AM
By:  NY Post
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The B110 bus stops to pick up passengers while traveling south on Lee Ave in the Williamsburg neighborhood of Brooklyn, NY on Oct. 19, 2011. On the bus, whose route is operated by the Hasidic community, rules are posted that restrict the movement of women, and women riders are expected to ride in the back of the bus. Photo: Brain Harkin for VIN NewsThe B110 bus stops to pick up passengers while traveling south on Lee Ave in the Williamsburg neighborhood of Brooklyn, NY on Oct. 19, 2011. On the bus, whose route is operated by the Hasidic community, rules are posted that restrict the movement of women, and women riders are expected to ride in the back of the bus. Photo: Brain Harkin for VIN News

Brooklyn, NY - The Orthodox Jewish-run Brooklyn bus company that stuck women in the back seats is putting an end to the controversial practice after a reprimand from the city.

The Private Transportation Corp.—which runs the Williamsburg-to- Borough Park B110 bus—wrote a letter to the Department of Transportation promising to instruct drivers not to move women to the back.

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Operators pay the city more than $20,000 a year to run the line as part of a 30-year-old franchising agreement, which specifically forbids discrimination.

 


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1

 Oct 26, 2011 at 09:13 AM shredready Says:

hopefully this will stop and a married couple can sit together or whatever.

if this does not stop, we will see separate sidewalks, in boro park

2

 Oct 26, 2011 at 09:56 AM favish Says:

#1 so what do you care, you dont live there.They will have now men one side women the other. But of course there will be rishay yisroel who will moiser that to

3

 Oct 26, 2011 at 09:55 AM mythoughts Says:

Did you notice the wording "instruct drivers not to move women to the back"? The signs on the bus and the passengers will enforce the women in the back policy. wink wink

4

 Oct 26, 2011 at 09:35 AM 12345 Says:

woman will no longer be seated in the back....now women will be stowed in the luggage compartment.

5

 Oct 26, 2011 at 09:31 AM Track5 Says:

Reply to #1  
shredready Says:

hopefully this will stop and a married couple can sit together or whatever.

if this does not stop, we will see separate sidewalks, in boro park

My parents live in willi,I used to travel a lot back and forth,I used to sit most of the times right in back from the men together with my wife and no one made any problems.

6

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:00 AM Mark Levin Says:

Reply to #1  
shredready Says:

hopefully this will stop and a married couple can sit together or whatever.

if this does not stop, we will see separate sidewalks, in boro park

Unfortunately this is another breakdown of tznius in Yiddish society. I am SURE this will be worked around. For example, were drivers telling nushim to sit in the back, doubtful! If they were, it was very very little.


Either way, I am sure the moyser will rot in hell!

7

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:31 AM shooki Says:

Even if they don't force to sit in back, its not a problem. Not a single woman from bp or willi will sit in the front. Its ok! They can promise but it will still remain the same. And to #1 that's not true! This is going on for years and noone ever thought of separating sidewalks. What nonsense. Married couples are together all day and nothing will happen if they sit apart for 30 minutes or so.

8

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:26 AM unbelvbl Says:

Reply to #1  
shredready Says:

hopefully this will stop and a married couple can sit together or whatever.

if this does not stop, we will see separate sidewalks, in boro park

That's lovely. And it would even be more lovely when we can sit in Shul together, or what about sitting and dancing together at weddings? wouldn't "that" be lovely. Or maybe I have a better idea for you; why don't you join the reform movement? They have it all figured out for you. No 'mechitzas' at all. Equality for all. So you will not have to worry about separate sidewalks.

9

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:24 AM PMOinFL Says:

City buses should all be the same. Fully integrated as would be expected and appropriate for a public city bus.

If people want a segregated bus, however, they should be allowed to have it. However, it should be a PRIVATE bus service. If there are SO many people in this community who want segregated buses, then someone should be able to build a nice, profitable PRIVATE business out of it.

If, on the other hand, it is just a small handful of people who want it, then the answer should be "get a car".

Public services are just that... PUBLIC.

10

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
mythoughts Says:

Did you notice the wording "instruct drivers not to move women to the back"? The signs on the bus and the passengers will enforce the women in the back policy. wink wink

Nobody was ever "forced" to sit in the back. This is not a goyishe route. We want to sit separately.

11

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:15 AM Ina Says:

It would be nice if we could find something good to say about the Williamsburg Boro Park bus company. I traveled this line hundreds of times over the past 35+ years. It is a wonderful service and more than dependable. I believe this company deserves our full support for what it does and I, for one, will let them work this problem out on their own.

12

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:11 AM independent_mind Says:

The day when men making this rule will be pregnant and sit in the back of a bus and feel on their own skin what achzariyus this is, will be the day they will understand the meaning of discrimination.
The need to enforce seperation at all baffles me. A couple is allowed to want to sit together. A heimish girl or bochur will automaticly look to sit next to someone of the same gender.

13

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:11 AM Meshigah Says:

He does not say that he will sit men and women in a different order all he said is that the bus company will not enforce it, its up to the passengers how they want to sit, the drivers will not get involved

If we are Jewish than we should obey the separation of men and women,

14

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:09 AM ExpatriateOwl Says:

And if Private Transportation Corp. does in fact actually instruct its drivers to not move women to the back of the bus, and if the drivers in fact remain silent on the subject, and if Private Transportation Corp. does in fact actually remove the discriminatory signage from the buses, then PTC will have a colorable defense in the lawsuit that WILL be filed if (or, rather, WHEN) the thugs enforce the discriminatory policies.

15

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:39 AM Yossi Says:

I dont see this a problem at all...99.9% of heimishe women understand the Tzinius guidelines and they are NOT interested to sit next to any men ,even the goytes who travel to work understand the yidishe guidelines...The only problem is if one of those Liberal Lefty Anti Semites will come up and sit down in the mens seats , so she will sit there by herself surrounded by a dozen of men standing and looking at her for 20 minutes...Those are the same Rishei Yisroel who want to do away with Kapures,Shechita and Milah....

16

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:41 AM anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
unbelvbl Says:

That's lovely. And it would even be more lovely when we can sit in Shul together, or what about sitting and dancing together at weddings? wouldn't "that" be lovely. Or maybe I have a better idea for you; why don't you join the reform movement? They have it all figured out for you. No 'mechitzas' at all. Equality for all. So you will not have to worry about separate sidewalks.

About mechitza in shul and by dancing there are halachos. About seperating parts of a bus or any vehicle there has never been an outright halacha! So pls don't mix the two.

17

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:44 AM sam Says:

As a frequent rider on the WB bus i have never experienced a driver getting up from his seat and forcing woman move to the back, i believe this letter was just sent to quiet down the hungry media that love to make an issue of a non issue.

18

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:46 AM MAYERFREUND Says:

Watch the drop of people who ride this bus. For one more dollar each 4 people can take a car for this route and that will be real private transportation.

19

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:50 AM Babishka Says:

Why can't women sit in the front and men in the back? No one has ever explained this.

20

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Nobody was ever "forced" to sit in the back. This is not a goyishe route. We want to sit separately.

and if I wanted to sit with my wife, in order to help her with the carriage, children ect--- would there be a problem? Would anyone yell at me to sit separately? Would we get kicked off the bus?

21

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
Meshigah Says:

He does not say that he will sit men and women in a different order all he said is that the bus company will not enforce it, its up to the passengers how they want to sit, the drivers will not get involved

If we are Jewish than we should obey the separation of men and women,

If we are Jewish, we would have the rachmanus on our wives and little children. The back of the bus is bumpier and that aint good for the pregnant lady or the little kids who tend to get car sick.
How tzniyus is it to have a parade of women walk down the middle of the bus to get to the back? All those men staring????
Frum people will automatically look to sit separately ON THEIR OWN. They will only sit next to people of the same gender. but to enforce such a practice is inconceivable! To make women sit in a "separate but equal" section of the bus (illegal- rosa parks anyone?) is wrong, both legally and morally and is not based on frum values.

22

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Listen chasid shote all of you! Many times ladies want to sit with their elderly parents (or an elderly couple depending on each other need to sit together) taking them to their doctors. and for the men sitting in the front while ladies have to stand in the back is disgusting. A solution would be men in the front, ladies in the back and couples in the middle of the bus - this way the ladies who want to sit closer to the front will sit in the middle of the bus. problem solved.

23

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:59 AM ALLAN Says:

Those who feel the need to sit separately will continue to do so...and that can't be considered a violation of the law. If a gentile person of either sex chooses to sit in the oposite section then it could become interesting.

24

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:59 AM unbelvbl Says:

Reply to #12  
independent_mind Says:

The day when men making this rule will be pregnant and sit in the back of a bus and feel on their own skin what achzariyus this is, will be the day they will understand the meaning of discrimination.
The need to enforce seperation at all baffles me. A couple is allowed to want to sit together. A heimish girl or bochur will automaticly look to sit next to someone of the same gender.

Are the seats in the back of the bus different than the ones in the front?! Why is this 'achzoriyus'? "The need to enforce seperation baffles you". Are you kidding me, or are you fooling yourself? If 'frum yiddishkeit' is so bad, then join the reform movement together with #1.

25

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:00 AM MAYERFREUND Says:

Reply to #19  
Babishka Says:

Why can't women sit in the front and men in the back? No one has ever explained this.

This would be the same violation as the men sitting in front and women in the back.

26

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:00 AM shvigger Says:

Reply to #19  
Babishka Says:

Why can't women sit in the front and men in the back? No one has ever explained this.

Because it's untznius'dig for men to stare at women's backs. The "ladies first" policy is secular in nature. In Torah, men should not walk/sit behind women.

27

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:08 PM Anonymous Says:

so put a curtain between the men in the back and the ladies in the front (so no staring). and men should enter bus from the side entrance. Ladies require extra comfort for obvious reasons so please accommodate them or don't pretend that yiddishkeit respects women.

28

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:59 AM mendel_L Says:

אחורי ארי ולא אחורי אשה,
a man should walk behind a lion rather then behind a woman
credit: chazal

besides, the city is legaly going nowhere here, this is a self imposed rule, 99% of riders are by choice sitting seperate, a woman has the right to sit where ever she likes even if its because of religious reasons.

29

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
shvigger Says:

Because it's untznius'dig for men to stare at women's backs. The "ladies first" policy is secular in nature. In Torah, men should not walk/sit behind women.

where in the torah does it say that the men should or must sit in the back of the bus?
why dont you complain about bochurim riding in city buses?

30

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Yossi Says:

I dont see this a problem at all...99.9% of heimishe women understand the Tzinius guidelines and they are NOT interested to sit next to any men ,even the goytes who travel to work understand the yidishe guidelines...The only problem is if one of those Liberal Lefty Anti Semites will come up and sit down in the mens seats , so she will sit there by herself surrounded by a dozen of men standing and looking at her for 20 minutes...Those are the same Rishei Yisroel who want to do away with Kapures,Shechita and Milah....

Dear Yossi: There are a lot of frum women in that 00.10 percent who you assume are the troublemakers. The reality is that the large percentage of frum women understand what tzinius is and have learned to ignore your silly rants that would subordinate women based on your mindless interpretations of daas torah. If you even tried to coerce these women to sit in the back of the bus, you would be slapped down so quickly you'd wish you never left whatever Shtiebel where they taught you this nareshkeit. You can call all of us antisemites, apikorsim and every other name you have complied in your putrid lexicon but that doesn't change your reality.

31

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

If we are Jewish, we would have the rachmanus on our wives and little children. The back of the bus is bumpier and that aint good for the pregnant lady or the little kids who tend to get car sick.
How tzniyus is it to have a parade of women walk down the middle of the bus to get to the back? All those men staring????
Frum people will automatically look to sit separately ON THEIR OWN. They will only sit next to people of the same gender. but to enforce such a practice is inconceivable! To make women sit in a "separate but equal" section of the bus (illegal- rosa parks anyone?) is wrong, both legally and morally and is not based on frum values.

Do the men sitting between women as some of u suggest have to see the women the whole time and hear all the chatter. Or do u suggest they keep their eyes closed fingers in their ears?

32

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:52 AM shredready Says:

Reply to #26  
shvigger Says:

Because it's untznius'dig for men to stare at women's backs. The "ladies first" policy is secular in nature. In Torah, men should not walk/sit behind women.

then they can sit in the back the men and just have the seats facing the back of the bus simple solution

I am also assuming woman will be with children carriages and other stuff sitting in the front just make sense

let see how the men like seating in the back

33

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
Anonymous Says:

and if I wanted to sit with my wife, in order to help her with the carriage, children ect--- would there be a problem? Would anyone yell at me to sit separately? Would we get kicked off the bus?

Nobody would yell at u. Or kick u off the bus. U would just feel like the biggest fool.
And by the way, most women travel this route without their husbands and everybody helps each other.

34

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:48 AM shredready Says:

Reply to #13  
Meshigah Says:

He does not say that he will sit men and women in a different order all he said is that the bus company will not enforce it, its up to the passengers how they want to sit, the drivers will not get involved

If we are Jewish than we should obey the separation of men and women,

nothing to do with being Jewish

in Europe the alter heim they did not do this I guess they where no Jewish

35

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Mark Levin Says:

Unfortunately this is another breakdown of tznius in Yiddish society. I am SURE this will be worked around. For example, were drivers telling nushim to sit in the back, doubtful! If they were, it was very very little.


Either way, I am sure the moyser will rot in hell!

If your reference to the so called "moyser" is the individual who originally filed the complaint, she is the wife of a highly respected askan in Brooklyn. Your vile comment assures that it will be you and yours who will be fermenting in gehenom

36

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:44 AM Anonymous Says:

how about 1 side men otherside woman

37

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
independent_mind Says:

The day when men making this rule will be pregnant and sit in the back of a bus and feel on their own skin what achzariyus this is, will be the day they will understand the meaning of discrimination.
The need to enforce seperation at all baffles me. A couple is allowed to want to sit together. A heimish girl or bochur will automaticly look to sit next to someone of the same gender.

U must be too young to understand how wrong u are. In ten years from now you'll be ashamed of yourself that this is what u wrote.

38

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:41 AM shredready Says:

Reply to #2  
favish Says:

#1 so what do you care, you dont live there.They will have now men one side women the other. But of course there will be rishay yisroel who will moiser that to

I hope so

run your own private bus company

when you sign a contract with the city you must abide by the rules
what is so hard for some frum to understand being frum does not mean you can negate written contracts

want a separate sitting bus just start a private bus service without a city contract

I have no problem with that

even thought I think is is misguided and have zero to do with the Torah

39

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:41 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
PMOinFL Says:

City buses should all be the same. Fully integrated as would be expected and appropriate for a public city bus.

If people want a segregated bus, however, they should be allowed to have it. However, it should be a PRIVATE bus service. If there are SO many people in this community who want segregated buses, then someone should be able to build a nice, profitable PRIVATE business out of it.

If, on the other hand, it is just a small handful of people who want it, then the answer should be "get a car".

Public services are just that... PUBLIC.

Sorry to inform u that everybody in this community wants segregated buses. The posters on this site that say otherwise most probably never even saw brooklyn. They are not frum yidden. Will-BP bus is not a regular city bus. You can count on your fingers how many non jews or non frum jews ride this bus per year.

40

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:32 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
PMOinFL Says:

City buses should all be the same. Fully integrated as would be expected and appropriate for a public city bus.

If people want a segregated bus, however, they should be allowed to have it. However, it should be a PRIVATE bus service. If there are SO many people in this community who want segregated buses, then someone should be able to build a nice, profitable PRIVATE business out of it.

If, on the other hand, it is just a small handful of people who want it, then the answer should be "get a car".

Public services are just that... PUBLIC.

the public that use this bus wants just that and they pay enough to be entitled to have it the way they want

41

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:02 AM sane Says:

Reply to #1  
shredready Says:

hopefully this will stop and a married couple can sit together or whatever.

if this does not stop, we will see separate sidewalks, in boro park

Actually, it was commonplace in many shtetlach in Europe for men and women to walk on different sides of the street.

42

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:03 AM eminem Says:

Reply to #12  
independent_mind Says:

The day when men making this rule will be pregnant and sit in the back of a bus and feel on their own skin what achzariyus this is, will be the day they will understand the meaning of discrimination.
The need to enforce seperation at all baffles me. A couple is allowed to want to sit together. A heimish girl or bochur will automaticly look to sit next to someone of the same gender.

My dear jewish brother (if so) no one on the bus ever forced anyone to sit separated, its the sole decision of its riders to do so, your comment to say achzaryois is irrelevant here,
Meaning of Separate seating is far from dis grating any gender, its just the opposite its admiring,
I have had numerous business meetings with gentiles, they always admired our halachos of separation between genders, now how low did this golus get that just our own brothers are the ones that make the fuss!

43

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:05 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
shredready Says:

hopefully this will stop and a married couple can sit together or whatever.

if this does not stop, we will see separate sidewalks, in boro park

Why don't we just get a psak halacha from a Posek who will rule if women are required to sit in the back?

44

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:06 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
unbelvbl Says:

That's lovely. And it would even be more lovely when we can sit in Shul together, or what about sitting and dancing together at weddings? wouldn't "that" be lovely. Or maybe I have a better idea for you; why don't you join the reform movement? They have it all figured out for you. No 'mechitzas' at all. Equality for all. So you will not have to worry about separate sidewalks.

I have news for you, YOU would be SHOCKED to discover how many chushuva Rabbonim were married in MIXED WEDDINGS. Yes, yingele, life did not start when you were born.

45

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:07 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Yossi Says:

I dont see this a problem at all...99.9% of heimishe women understand the Tzinius guidelines and they are NOT interested to sit next to any men ,even the goytes who travel to work understand the yidishe guidelines...The only problem is if one of those Liberal Lefty Anti Semites will come up and sit down in the mens seats , so she will sit there by herself surrounded by a dozen of men standing and looking at her for 20 minutes...Those are the same Rishei Yisroel who want to do away with Kapures,Shechita and Milah....

Maybe the problem is perverted men who can't think of anything except shmutz.

46

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:08 AM unbelvbl Says:

Reply to #16  
anonymous Says:

About mechitza in shul and by dancing there are halachos. About seperating parts of a bus or any vehicle there has never been an outright halacha! So pls don't mix the two.

'Halacha'?! Is there an 'halacha' to have a 'mechitza' at a 'bar mitzvah' or any other large gathering?! "OUTRIGHT HALACHA"! What you need is, outright 'SECHEL'. Seperation of the genders is basic 'yiddishkiet' without it being mentioned in the 'chumash'. Its a 'geder' for immorality. And yes, we live with 'gedorim u'syogim'. If you dont like it, join the reform.

47

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:09 AM Anonymous Says:

Why not have 3 busses 1) Men Only 2) Woman Only 3) Mixed .....

48

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:10 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
independent_mind Says:

The day when men making this rule will be pregnant and sit in the back of a bus and feel on their own skin what achzariyus this is, will be the day they will understand the meaning of discrimination.
The need to enforce seperation at all baffles me. A couple is allowed to want to sit together. A heimish girl or bochur will automaticly look to sit next to someone of the same gender.

Oh, yes this reminds me of one day a long time ago when I was expecting and this man comes onto the bus and says ladies should move to the back because there is no place for the men. Maybe he was pregnant too but I was sure glad that no one got up for him. (the ladies were sitting in the ladies section.)

49

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:09 AM favish Says:

#8 the ones who comment like #1 are already reform ..usuall they're MO and down... Like in the other thread she says because she has a picture of mixed seating at her husbands bar mitzvah so it must be al pi halacha. shulchen urech, shas, poskim she doesnt know and doesnt count by them .a new poisek' a picture!!

50

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:10 AM Yossi Says:

Reply to #19  
Babishka Says:

Why can't women sit in the front and men in the back? No one has ever explained this.

Because the Halacha is a Man should NOT walk between 2 women...We live in year 2011 but the Torah is over 4000 years old....Just dont worry,every thing will work out and the frum community will imy"h have a continuation of this wonderful service which connects the worlds two largest Chasidishe communities where hundreds of heimishe melamdim,teachers, bale batim,and employees travel every day....

53

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:14 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Babishka Says:

Why can't women sit in the front and men in the back? No one has ever explained this.

achoiry ari veloh achory ishu

54

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:17 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
unbelvbl Says:

Are the seats in the back of the bus different than the ones in the front?! Why is this 'achzoriyus'? "The need to enforce seperation baffles you". Are you kidding me, or are you fooling yourself? If 'frum yiddishkeit' is so bad, then join the reform movement together with #1.

#24 - When a woman is pregnant she often feel nauseated and achy. The back of the bus is much bumpier than the front of the bus, which adds greatly to her discomfort. I'm sure when the policies started, no one was thinking how great it is to cause a sick feeling woman to feel even worse, but the fact is that this is what happens every single day. Split the bus down the middle.

55

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:17 AM favish Says:

# 24 these posters are already reform or other. a yid a ben torah knows the issues and halacha involved. he wouldnt comment like them

56

 Oct 26, 2011 at 11:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

If we are Jewish, we would have the rachmanus on our wives and little children. The back of the bus is bumpier and that aint good for the pregnant lady or the little kids who tend to get car sick.
How tzniyus is it to have a parade of women walk down the middle of the bus to get to the back? All those men staring????
Frum people will automatically look to sit separately ON THEIR OWN. They will only sit next to people of the same gender. but to enforce such a practice is inconceivable! To make women sit in a "separate but equal" section of the bus (illegal- rosa parks anyone?) is wrong, both legally and morally and is not based on frum values.

bs i traveled the wily bp bus 100s of times with my wife and 4 kids below age of 6 and never had a problem with the separate seating it worked out fine keep all yoer hatred for yourself

57

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
shredready Says:

then they can sit in the back the men and just have the seats facing the back of the bus simple solution

I am also assuming woman will be with children carriages and other stuff sitting in the front just make sense

let see how the men like seating in the back

Were u ever on that bus? Do u even know how it looks? Or do u just like to TALK?
Women with carriages should be sitting in the back regardless. All u need is one carriage to block the aisle and nobody can go to the back.

58

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
Anonymous Says:

If your reference to the so called "moyser" is the individual who originally filed the complaint, she is the wife of a highly respected askan in Brooklyn. Your vile comment assures that it will be you and yours who will be fermenting in gehenom

Poor woman. She wanted some attention. Her husband is obviously too busy helping and listening to others.

59

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:35 PM independent_mind Says:

Reply to #24  
unbelvbl Says:

Are the seats in the back of the bus different than the ones in the front?! Why is this 'achzoriyus'? "The need to enforce seperation baffles you". Are you kidding me, or are you fooling yourself? If 'frum yiddishkeit' is so bad, then join the reform movement together with #1.

Yes they are bumpier and is highly uncomferatble upto painful for a pregnant woman.
Sad for u that those who think different must already be reform.

60

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:36 PM independent_mind Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

U must be too young to understand how wrong u are. In ten years from now you'll be ashamed of yourself that this is what u wrote.

Not at all. I'm a mother of a big grown family bH. And I will agree with my opinion until 120.

61

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:38 PM independent_mind Says:

Reply to #42  
eminem Says:

My dear jewish brother (if so) no one on the bus ever forced anyone to sit separated, its the sole decision of its riders to do so, your comment to say achzaryois is irrelevant here,
Meaning of Separate seating is far from dis grating any gender, its just the opposite its admiring,
I have had numerous business meetings with gentiles, they always admired our halachos of separation between genders, now how low did this golus get that just our own brothers are the ones that make the fuss!

I have nothing against separate seating. I wrote that a heimish person will anyways not want to sit next to a someone of opposite gender (unless spouse, parent etc).
What disturbs me is sending women to the back which is the rougher part of bus when many are pregnant etc

62

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:39 PM favish Says:

#47 because this bus caters for 95% (even more) for those who want and understand what kedushams am yisroel means, what taharas hamachshovous means, what '........veshov mayachreicha means etc. the trouble makers are the risay am yisroel, the rishey media who see a story which they capitalize on and get a scoop

63

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:40 PM unbelvbl Says:

Reply to #27  
Anonymous Says:

so put a curtain between the men in the back and the ladies in the front (so no staring). and men should enter bus from the side entrance. Ladies require extra comfort for obvious reasons so please accommodate them or don't pretend that yiddishkeit respects women.

Great idea. The same should be done in 'shul'. Ladies in the front or downstairs, and gentleman in the back or upstairs, with a non-see-thru 'mechitza'. of course.

64

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:41 PM independent_mind Says:

Reply to #42  
eminem Says:

My dear jewish brother (if so) no one on the bus ever forced anyone to sit separated, its the sole decision of its riders to do so, your comment to say achzaryois is irrelevant here,
Meaning of Separate seating is far from dis grating any gender, its just the opposite its admiring,
I have had numerous business meetings with gentiles, they always admired our halachos of separation between genders, now how low did this golus get that just our own brothers are the ones that make the fuss!

Its achzariyus cuz a pregnant woman in the back suffers agony from the bumpiness.
Truth is for someone who suggests joining the reform movement when one is of different opinion, its a waste of time to comment. Find a doc

65

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #30  
Anonymous Says:

Dear Yossi: There are a lot of frum women in that 00.10 percent who you assume are the troublemakers. The reality is that the large percentage of frum women understand what tzinius is and have learned to ignore your silly rants that would subordinate women based on your mindless interpretations of daas torah. If you even tried to coerce these women to sit in the back of the bus, you would be slapped down so quickly you'd wish you never left whatever Shtiebel where they taught you this nareshkeit. You can call all of us antisemites, apikorsim and every other name you have complied in your putrid lexicon but that doesn't change your reality.

You begin with "Dear Yossi" as if your are about to say something intelligent. All you do is rant. Why don't you respond with some substance.

66

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:44 PM mommy Says:

Ladies to the right, men to the left, like on the Monsey bus. Put a curtain in between, problem solved.

67

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:46 PM unbelvbl Says:

Reply to #35  
Anonymous Says:

If your reference to the so called "moyser" is the individual who originally filed the complaint, she is the wife of a highly respected askan in Brooklyn. Your vile comment assures that it will be you and yours who will be fermenting in gehenom

Please indulge us. Tell us who this 'porekes ol' is. If this 'askan' was respected, he is no more.

68

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
Anonymous Says:

Oh, yes this reminds me of one day a long time ago when I was expecting and this man comes onto the bus and says ladies should move to the back because there is no place for the men. Maybe he was pregnant too but I was sure glad that no one got up for him. (the ladies were sitting in the ladies section.)

Oh." So one time long ago one man" told the women to move back.
Well, I agree with u that this "one" man was wrong. He can use a lecture on basic manners Does not mean that now women should sit in the front or mixed c"v.

69

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:51 PM shimonyehuda Says:

i think the post should send a man to ride in the back

70

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:51 PM favish Says:

#44 yes, YOUR kind of rabbonim. If they were married as you claim, they were without question not our rabbonin, EG the likes of mishnas aron, igros moshe, divrei yoel, chasam soifer, bais haleive etc etczechur tzaddikim kulom livrocha.. can you name a few of YOUR' chasava' rabbonim who were married in mixed...and if youll yell 'Lashon horah, Lashon horah' then youre contradicting yourselve as you saytheres nothing wrong

71

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

I have news for you, YOU would be SHOCKED to discover how many chushuva Rabbonim were married in MIXED WEDDINGS. Yes, yingele, life did not start when you were born.

Please tell me if any of these reabonim marry off their children in mixed weddings today, 'tatela'?!! I

72

 Oct 26, 2011 at 12:53 PM LEEAVE Says:

Reply to #1  
shredready Says:

hopefully this will stop and a married couple can sit together or whatever.

if this does not stop, we will see separate sidewalks, in boro park

Its actually a great idea for yidishkeit

73

 Oct 26, 2011 at 01:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

Why not have 3 busses 1) Men Only 2) Woman Only 3) Mixed .....

for the 3rd bus its called a city bus.youve heard of them?

74

 Oct 26, 2011 at 01:15 PM favish Says:

there is a halachadig reason why women in back but we wouldnt bother to post it. you see those who mock this concept or other gedorim regarding kedushas am yisroel is not pshat that they are ungezapt mit torah and yiras shomayim with shulcun urech and nosei kailm,chovas halvovaos, ohr chaim hakodosh etc etc and they came to psak halacha that their way is proper. NO! most come by their hashkafa from eisofs gass, shmutz magazine, TV, MOVIES (you know all that is 'HOLY'' aka hole-y and gets mixed up with keddusha so the mix of oir and chochesh the end result is mockikn torah that its taliban and .......

75

 Oct 26, 2011 at 01:20 PM HAPPY12 Says:

Reply to #34  
shredready Says:

nothing to do with being Jewish

in Europe the alter heim they did not do this I guess they where no Jewish

In Europe they also didn't have bus tranportation services between two Jewish communities.
BTW do you live in either one of the two communities? i.e. Williamsburg or BP?
If not, then either way this shouldn't affect you at all. 99.99% of the people are happy with this arrangement. Nothing beats going on a heimishe bus between two heimishe communites. The separation never bothered me or anyone I know.

What I 'love' is when people who aren't affected by a certain thing happening in a given area who have all kinds of opinions on it. That should be left to the people it affects.

76

 Oct 26, 2011 at 01:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
shvigger Says:

Because it's untznius'dig for men to stare at women's backs. The "ladies first" policy is secular in nature. In Torah, men should not walk/sit behind women.

Frum men should not be staring at women. If they had their head in a sefer they wouldn't have a problem. All this separation is ridiculous -if men are not allowed to look, then they shouldn't. The women should not have to suffer because the men have no control.

77

 Oct 26, 2011 at 01:48 PM Anonymous Says:

what do the knuckle-dragging dregs, I'm sorry, I meant menfolk, do if a handicapped woman comes on the bus? Is the wheelchair forced to wend its way thru a too-narrow aisle to the back of the bus?

Also, where is it written that men get to have all the seats? Why is it that the women are told to get up because there aren't enough seats for the men?

78

 Oct 26, 2011 at 01:56 PM Anonymous Says:

I think that people may continue to sit seperately on their own. I am a woman. Very rarely use the bus. I am not Chassidish and when have rode the bus, have never had a problem with this issue - woman sitting in the back. And I never heard a complaint from any other women whom I know who aren't Chassidish who rode that bus. I will continue to sit in the back with the women. I think that most Chassdish will comply with this and do this on their own. But warning - there may be trouble makers like reporters who are going to PURPOSELY try to sit in the front, next to the men, to stir up trouble.

If there is going to be mixed sitting - wouldn't be surprised if another bus company decides to go into this business and do this route -- without city money and then I don't think this would be an issue of having seperate sitting unless it's funded by the city. Just watch though another troublemaker who is not Jewish trying to make the same trouble with any other bus company.

79

 Oct 26, 2011 at 02:09 PM whererurbrains Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

Why not have 3 busses 1) Men Only 2) Woman Only 3) Mixed .....

or 2 buses only!!

80

 Oct 26, 2011 at 02:29 PM clear-thinker Says:

Reply to #78  
Anonymous Says:

I think that people may continue to sit seperately on their own. I am a woman. Very rarely use the bus. I am not Chassidish and when have rode the bus, have never had a problem with this issue - woman sitting in the back. And I never heard a complaint from any other women whom I know who aren't Chassidish who rode that bus. I will continue to sit in the back with the women. I think that most Chassdish will comply with this and do this on their own. But warning - there may be trouble makers like reporters who are going to PURPOSELY try to sit in the front, next to the men, to stir up trouble.

If there is going to be mixed sitting - wouldn't be surprised if another bus company decides to go into this business and do this route -- without city money and then I don't think this would be an issue of having seperate sitting unless it's funded by the city. Just watch though another troublemaker who is not Jewish trying to make the same trouble with any other bus company.

A truly private company can discriminate. Against men or women. The problem is when a bus company wants city money but doesn't wish to follow the rules laid out by the city.

81

 Oct 26, 2011 at 02:30 PM favish Says:

contid from 70... to #44 ok now, i challenge you to name 3-4 'chasheveh' rabbonim who got married and the whole affair was mixed and remembe.....r (see 70 last 2 lines). Also, remember, there were and are plenty gedolei yisroel who were not so frum when the were young and becaim Tzaddikum, marbitze torah etc and the low spiritual condition you saw in pictures was in their younger years

82

 Oct 26, 2011 at 02:45 PM sunsetyenta Says:

Reply to #1  
shredready Says:

hopefully this will stop and a married couple can sit together or whatever.

if this does not stop, we will see separate sidewalks, in boro park

g-d forbid

83

 Oct 26, 2011 at 02:45 PM MazelKGH Says:

Reply to #6  
Mark Levin Says:

Unfortunately this is another breakdown of tznius in Yiddish society. I am SURE this will be worked around. For example, were drivers telling nushim to sit in the back, doubtful! If they were, it was very very little.


Either way, I am sure the moyser will rot in hell!

Mark, why do you always make trouble and show your ignoranace? Why don't you use your Yiddishe name? Are you ashamed? Everyone knows you as Michuel. You are (at the very least) a self-centered and arrogant apostle with a vile hatred and disrespect for women. Stop hiding behind the "Mark".

Either way, I am sure the moyser already lives in Brooklyn.

84

 Oct 26, 2011 at 02:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
mythoughts Says:

Did you notice the wording "instruct drivers not to move women to the back"? The signs on the bus and the passengers will enforce the women in the back policy. wink wink

i guess some woman(maybe even me)will try it out within the next few weeks

85

 Oct 26, 2011 at 02:50 PM ReasonableGuy Says:

Can anyone clarify about the money, the article says that the operator pays over 20k a year to the city for the route, but i always understood that the city subsidized it.....anyone know??

86

 Oct 26, 2011 at 02:56 PM sunsetyenta Says:

Reply to #3  
mythoughts Says:

Did you notice the wording "instruct drivers not to move women to the back"? The signs on the bus and the passengers will enforce the women in the back policy. wink wink

just one question why when there's no room in front (on willy/bp bus) men set a little feather back and women end up standing or on monsey/bp bus they sit on woman's side sorry i just don't understand the double standers and of curse the woman are the ones with the kids g-d forbid a man should/would take care of his child (in public)

87

 Oct 26, 2011 at 03:06 PM Babishka Says:

Reply to #77  
Anonymous Says:

what do the knuckle-dragging dregs, I'm sorry, I meant menfolk, do if a handicapped woman comes on the bus? Is the wheelchair forced to wend its way thru a too-narrow aisle to the back of the bus?

Also, where is it written that men get to have all the seats? Why is it that the women are told to get up because there aren't enough seats for the men?

It is derech eretz that a man should get up and offer his seat to a lady, especially true if the lady is pregnant or elderly. (Likewise a young and healthy woman should offer a seat to a disabled or elderly man)

88

 Oct 26, 2011 at 04:07 PM barryshaf Says:

Reply to #19  
Babishka Says:

Why can't women sit in the front and men in the back? No one has ever explained this.

the whole issue isnt realy about discriminating against women by making them sit in the back but rather its a complement to women, what i men is that we allow women to look at men during davening (dont worry im not equating sitting on a bus to davening just giving an example) but not the other way around the reason is that we trust that women will still be able to have complete concentration while we dont trust that men will be able to concentrate, meaning they will have bad thoughts which might lead to sin. so too here we fear that by men sitting next to a women might lead to sin. you can argue and say that this shouldnt be a problem for a married couple but, but we are unable to make certain exceptions to some and not to others

89

 Oct 26, 2011 at 05:05 PM OPEllly Says:

Reply to #81  
favish Says:

contid from 70... to #44 ok now, i challenge you to name 3-4 'chasheveh' rabbonim who got married and the whole affair was mixed and remembe.....r (see 70 last 2 lines). Also, remember, there were and are plenty gedolei yisroel who were not so frum when the were young and becaim Tzaddikum, marbitze torah etc and the low spiritual condition you saw in pictures was in their younger years

I can only name one myself, although he's not in Europe: my own rav, a talmid of J. B. Soleveitchik. His opinion of enforced separate seating led him to say that if he couldn't sit with his family at his own daughters' weddings, then he wouldn't attend.

On the subject of negiah, he raised the question, does the risk of contact cause you to withdraw your hand when the grocery cashier is about to drop your change into it?

I find it hard to believe that every situation in which the frum community has started enforcing gender separation (including Uncle Moishy concerts and school graduation ceremonies) is mandated al pi halachah. I hope to find some time to consult my Shulchan Aruch on the subject, or that someone other more capable correspondent will do the same.

90

 Oct 26, 2011 at 03:33 PM unbelvbl Says:

Reply to #59  
independent_mind Says:

Yes they are bumpier and is highly uncomferatble upto painful for a pregnant woman.
Sad for u that those who think different must already be reform.

Interesting. I traveled this route with my wife and children on the same buses for many years, and never heard a complaint from my wife.

Just one more point. If you're pregnant, I believe that the 'chusheva' girls will stand up and give you their own seat in the middle of the bus....

91

 Oct 26, 2011 at 05:32 PM Darth_Zeidah Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Nobody was ever "forced" to sit in the back. This is not a goyishe route. We want to sit separately.

Let me ask you something else: if a non-Jewish person (of either gender) was to board this bus would he/she be denied access? After all, you *have* told us that "this is not a goyishe route".

Or are you yearning for a return to the racially-segregated buses in Alabama before Rosa Parks?

92

 Oct 26, 2011 at 07:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #77  
Anonymous Says:

what do the knuckle-dragging dregs, I'm sorry, I meant menfolk, do if a handicapped woman comes on the bus? Is the wheelchair forced to wend its way thru a too-narrow aisle to the back of the bus?

Also, where is it written that men get to have all the seats? Why is it that the women are told to get up because there aren't enough seats for the men?

This comment is proof that some posters here have no idea what they're talking about. What makes u think this bus transports wheelchair bound passengers? This is NOT a city bus. It looks completely different!!! There is no place for a wheelchair in the front.

94

 Oct 26, 2011 at 09:18 PM factchecker Says:

Reply to #7  
shooki Says:

Even if they don't force to sit in back, its not a problem. Not a single woman from bp or willi will sit in the front. Its ok! They can promise but it will still remain the same. And to #1 that's not true! This is going on for years and noone ever thought of separating sidewalks. What nonsense. Married couples are together all day and nothing will happen if they sit apart for 30 minutes or so.

"Married couples are together all day and nothing will happen if they sit apart for 30 minutes or so."
Really?! What do you do for a living? As far as I'm concerned, the best (and for people who have children, sometimes the only) time a married couple can spend some quality time, is when you travel together on a bus or train.

95

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:17 PM palmtights Says:

Reply to #24  
unbelvbl Says:

Are the seats in the back of the bus different than the ones in the front?! Why is this 'achzoriyus'? "The need to enforce seperation baffles you". Are you kidding me, or are you fooling yourself? If 'frum yiddishkeit' is so bad, then join the reform movement together with #1.

yeah, the seats in the back are more nausiating than the one in the front and if I remember correctly sometimes you can smell the gasoline there too all the way in the back,and the sideway seats in the back-its all awful. so if your pregnant or a mother of small children you are tired and sometimes have a headache the worst thing is to sit and the back. the bus wobbles to and fro.

96

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:26 PM Anonymous Says:

When I travel by subway from Brooklyn to Manhattan, I see young frum girls sitting on the train right next to all sorts of people, including men. Nothing happens. They don't faint, the men don't start attacking them, and everyone just sits and reads and listens to music or studies and the train makes its way into Manhattan.

That is a normal world. But when you start separating by gender when there is not the slightest basis in Torah for it, you end up with perversions of the body and soul.

Where in the Torah does it say that at a wedding a man cannot sit on a chair next to a woman who is also sitting on a chair. And if they are both single, they might also talk to each other, and might get married.

That is not against the Torah. That is normal. A long time ago, someone very chashuv said that one should not add to the Torah. The Torah says things, and the Rabbanim have advised us. But no one said, not two hundred years ago, or three hundred, that at a wedding a single man cannot sit next to a single woman, ot next to his wife.

The Torah did not say that women should stand aside when a man approaches on a sidewalk.

Shame on those who add them just because they can.

97

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:40 PM bigwheeel Says:

Reply to #9  
PMOinFL Says:

City buses should all be the same. Fully integrated as would be expected and appropriate for a public city bus.

If people want a segregated bus, however, they should be allowed to have it. However, it should be a PRIVATE bus service. If there are SO many people in this community who want segregated buses, then someone should be able to build a nice, profitable PRIVATE business out of it.

If, on the other hand, it is just a small handful of people who want it, then the answer should be "get a car".

Public services are just that... PUBLIC.

Ironically. The corporate name of the carrier is "Private Bus Co." And "Get a Car" is the name of a car service run by (And for, among others.) Ultra-Orthodox Jews. Anyway. When some posters (Like Shredready) or other stirrer-uppers state that Women "Must" ride in the back of the bus, they intend to add to it a degrading or discriminatory connotation, like the "Back of the Bus" rule that was applied to the African-American population in The South. They are totally wrong. Because, such a rule or policy does not exist. It's all done by mutual consent and on a strictly voluntary basis. As a matter of fact, the few times that I ride the B110 bus, I've observed some non-Jewish passengers, both, male and female sitting next to each other in any (random) location, wherever seats are available.

98

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:46 PM bigwheeel Says:

Reply to #63  
unbelvbl Says:

Great idea. The same should be done in 'shul'. Ladies in the front or downstairs, and gentleman in the back or upstairs, with a non-see-thru 'mechitza'. of course.

As a matter of fact, it was done that way in the "Temple" some 2,000 Years ago. (As if you care one way or another.) But, then some Politically Correct individuals would complain "That the Rabbis are putting women in the "Basement" and treating them as second class citizens.

99

 Oct 26, 2011 at 10:55 PM bigwheeel Says:

Reply to #17  
sam Says:

As a frequent rider on the WB bus i have never experienced a driver getting up from his seat and forcing woman move to the back, i believe this letter was just sent to quiet down the hungry media that love to make an issue of a non issue.

No. It was a slow day at the NY Post and the NY Civil Liberty Union. The reporters came back from the "OWS" (Occupy Wall Street) protest, they finished their "Starbucks" Latte, had checked their e-mails (For the umpteenth time.) went to lunch and came back. And there were still a few hours to kill. So what do you do?! Go stir up (fresh) trouble. It might even help the sagging circulation numbers of that scandal driven vampire of a rag.

100

 Oct 27, 2011 at 12:47 AM harryw Says:

Reply to #9  
PMOinFL Says:

City buses should all be the same. Fully integrated as would be expected and appropriate for a public city bus.

If people want a segregated bus, however, they should be allowed to have it. However, it should be a PRIVATE bus service. If there are SO many people in this community who want segregated buses, then someone should be able to build a nice, profitable PRIVATE business out of it.

If, on the other hand, it is just a small handful of people who want it, then the answer should be "get a car".

Public services are just that... PUBLIC.

And how exactly does it become unpublic when the man sit in the front and the woman move towards the rear ?

All passengers on the bus are perfectly fine with this rule.

You make no sense here, sorry.

101

 Oct 27, 2011 at 02:42 AM Anonymous Says:

All this prattle!!! It's the passengers who seat themselves. There are no assigned seating on these buses and the drivers never look back or tell anyone where to sit. they barely answer a question even when spoken to! lol One troublemaker making all this noise... that's all this is. It'll blow over. They do need competition, then maybe the quality of the buses will improve. sometimes the buses are so full they look like cattle cars

102

 Oct 27, 2011 at 12:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #96  
Anonymous Says:

When I travel by subway from Brooklyn to Manhattan, I see young frum girls sitting on the train right next to all sorts of people, including men. Nothing happens. They don't faint, the men don't start attacking them, and everyone just sits and reads and listens to music or studies and the train makes its way into Manhattan.

That is a normal world. But when you start separating by gender when there is not the slightest basis in Torah for it, you end up with perversions of the body and soul.

Where in the Torah does it say that at a wedding a man cannot sit on a chair next to a woman who is also sitting on a chair. And if they are both single, they might also talk to each other, and might get married.

That is not against the Torah. That is normal. A long time ago, someone very chashuv said that one should not add to the Torah. The Torah says things, and the Rabbanim have advised us. But no one said, not two hundred years ago, or three hundred, that at a wedding a single man cannot sit next to a single woman, ot next to his wife.

The Torah did not say that women should stand aside when a man approaches on a sidewalk.

Shame on those who add them just because they can.

lern mesechtes suckeh simches bais hashive tikun gudoil

103

 Oct 27, 2011 at 04:54 PM favish Says:

#96 WHERE in the torah does it say not to eat yom kippur, WHERE in the torah does it say to blow a rams horn on rosh hashana, , WHERE in the torah does it say rosh hashanna is for tsuvah WHERE in the torah does it say not sow, reap, thresh, grind etc on shabbas or make kiddush have a seudah on shabbos WERE does the torah say you have to put on tefilin everyday and it should be black, perfectly square, 4 separate parshes on the hand and in one piece on the head,WHERE WHERE,, WHERE you can say where on all taryag mitzvius and thats the problem with MO and down.if you dont believe torah shebal peh and becsav is one and inseparable your left without torah ,and the end result is christianity, reform reconstructionis conser. and avi weisses. and that what the gemmorah says 'kol sheoimer ein lu ala torah ein lo afilu torah' Where does it say you have to shect animals according to ..5 hilchos shechita, 39 simonay treifos........must i assume you eat nevailos and treifos because where does it say in the torah what constitutes treifos..................

104

 Oct 27, 2011 at 03:09 PM HAPPY12 Says:

Reply to #77  
Anonymous Says:

what do the knuckle-dragging dregs, I'm sorry, I meant menfolk, do if a handicapped woman comes on the bus? Is the wheelchair forced to wend its way thru a too-narrow aisle to the back of the bus?

Also, where is it written that men get to have all the seats? Why is it that the women are told to get up because there aren't enough seats for the men?

A wheelchair couldn't get on the bus in any case, not in the front or back!

The men don't have all the seats, in fact sometimes they are the ones standing up for the women.

P.S. Were you ever on the bus yourself? Or, just have an opinion about s/t you know nothing about?

105

 Oct 27, 2011 at 05:38 PM favish Says:

continued from
#103....... #96 and you have the gull and audacity to say'shame, shame on those who add . after you learn thru shass, shulchen urech, meforshay hatorah, (not from dr rabbiners). OK i'll give one sample from shulchen urech which your kind mock ,,SHULCHEN URECH EVEN AZER 21 seuf 5 last 2 lines rema that a man shoiuld not look romanticaly on his wife bacause its gorem hirhurin for others who see (see beth shmuel 12)and the rema does not say like the ignoramus say they should not look .it has to be bothe a woman has to go tznious AKA 'BASHEIDEN" and the man should not look. by the way the opposite is also halach . i dont care which dr rabbiner says differently see chinuch, shloh hakodes (also not a chassidishe sefer) so learn thoroly simen 21 plus other plase .. but i have a chssah the way you talk you probably dont know what shulchen urech is. and do know that the ramah says, not a chsiddishe sefer, that chosen kalleh should not be together too much so they dont get fed up with each other, and do you know how many shidduchun were broken becase or this accursed thing of texting whch up to now they didnt communicate too much but because of text....mr big 'talmud chchem

106

 Oct 27, 2011 at 07:02 PM favish Says:

#34 and you know exactly how it was in der alter heim.in der alter heim was also such yidden and such 'yidden'




3

107

 Oct 27, 2011 at 07:14 PM favish Says:

# 105.. PS-.the rama 21 5 im referring to is, of course, in public

110

 Oct 27, 2011 at 07:24 PM favish Says:

#96 ......and do you know its just as assur for women to look on men, alkol panim leshem taive. WHERE WHERE WHERE?? go find it yourself

111

 Oct 27, 2011 at 10:28 PM Hmm___ Says:

Reply to #63  
unbelvbl Says:

Great idea. The same should be done in 'shul'. Ladies in the front or downstairs, and gentleman in the back or upstairs, with a non-see-thru 'mechitza'. of course.

well shul is basicly for men a women is not obligated to go to shul

112

 Oct 30, 2011 at 04:03 AM Naftush Says:

Reply to #43  
Anonymous Says:

Why don't we just get a psak halacha from a Posek who will rule if women are required to sit in the back?

Well, there was once a posek named R. Moshe Feinstein, and he gave a psak (Igrot Moshe E.H. 2:14) that rendered the whole issue null and void. But we know better than him today. We know that to really keep our thoughts away from w*men, we men need to keep w*men in mind always -- to humiliate and exclude. Now, that's tznius!

113

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