New York - Klal Yisroel Devastated As Waterbury Community Plunged into Mourning |
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New York - The entire Waterbury community, including those who live in the community, those enrolled at the yeshiva and former talmidim of Yeshiva Ateres Shmuel are reeling in shock and disbelief following the tragic crash last night that took the lives of two high school students and thousands are expected to attend the funerals that will take place this afternoon in Borough Park.
Daniel King, 15, and Eli Schonbrun, 16, both residents of the East 30βs in Flatbush, were pronounced dead at the scene following the early morning rollover of a van that was carrying eleven bochurim from both the high school and the beis medrash back to the yeshiva. The boys were traveling on I-84 in a 1998 Ford Club Wagon, a vehicle notorious for rollovers, and Connecticut State Police are investigating the accident.
The levaya for Eli Schonbrun will take place 2 PM this afternoon at Shomrei Hachomos, located 4218 Fort Hamilton Parkway at the corner of 43rd Street and Fort Hamilton Parkway. The levaya for Dani King is currently scheduled for 3:15 PM at Shomrei Hadas, 3803 14th Avenue. Those times are subject to change as the bodies of the two victims have yet to be released.
“We are in a state of shock and mourning,β Rabbi Shalom Siegfried, Vice President of Yeshiva Ateres Shmuel told VIN News. βWe have the families and everyone in our tefillos and we hope to be able to move forward.β
Rabbi Siegfried confirmed that the driver of the van, was a bochur in the yeshiva and unconfirmed reports have his age as 22 years old. Chai Lifeline has been brought in to provide support and counseling to the bochurim at the yeshiva.
This is the second time that a car crash has claimed the life of a bochur in the Waterbury yeshiva. Shaya Twerski was killed in March 2003 and a shtender bearing his name remains in the yeshiva.
βThis is a trauma, every motherβs worst nightmare,β said the mother of a former talmid.
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Read Comments (73) — Post Yours »
1
Nov 07, 2011 at 11:19 AM lawschooldrunk Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is tragic.
I don't mean to start arguments but I have to ask- Were the two boys wearing their seatbelts?
2
Nov 07, 2011 at 11:19 AM GEULA Says:Report as Inappropriate
hashem yishmor!!! Torah, Tefilla, Mitzvos and yiras shamayim... we must do teshuva now.
4
Nov 07, 2011 at 11:10 AM YStern Says:Report as Inappropriate
Please say tehillim for Yisroel ben Nechama Matel and Mayer Aryeh Leib ben Perel Hindel. They were injured in the van and need our prayers for a refuah.
5
Nov 07, 2011 at 11:36 AM UseYourHead Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is eerily reminiscent of the similarly tragic summer camp van accident that occurred in August 2007 in Maine.
7
Nov 07, 2011 at 12:07 PM ZAIDY678 Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ hashem yishmor!!! Torah, Tefilla, Mitzvos and yiras shamayim... we must do teshuva now. ”
β hashem yishmor!!! Torah, Tefilla, Mitzvos and yiras shamayim... we must do teshuva now. β be normal for a bit, BE HUMAN
8
Nov 07, 2011 at 12:06 PM Bored213 Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This is tragic.
I don't mean to start arguments but I have to ask- Were the two boys wearing their seatbelts? ”
It is tragic. But seatbelts wouldnt necessarily have helped them anyway. You may not remember the tragic car accident that happened in England where 2 boys were killed and a third very badly injured - they were on the way to a summer camp in the countryside when the car swerved to avoid a deer and crashed on the side of the road - the boys were wearing seatbelts at the time and i happen to know the person who did tahara on one of those poor boys - the injury he received from the seatbelt when he was thrown forward from the force of the accident......! And they still died even with seatbelts :-(
They were chosen as korbanos by Hashem and we dont know why! they must have been special people and i wish their families a nechama. I'm not saying people shouldnt wear seatbelts but at the end of the day i think if Hashem wanted their neshamos back - it would happen with or without seatbelts.
9
Nov 07, 2011 at 12:06 PM Nebech Says:Report as Inappropriate
My heart goes out to the family's involved. The boys who were nifter were very good yeshiva boys and will be representing us in shamayim now
10
Nov 07, 2011 at 11:44 AM Proud-2-B-Orthodox Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This is tragic.
I don't mean to start arguments but I have to ask- Were the two boys wearing their seatbelts? ”
No, you don't "have to ask". Whether they were wearing their seat belts or not is irrelevant at this point. It's not like they can change what happened. You can make sure that your family and loved ones all wear their seat belts without having to know whether 2 young members of Klal Yisroel who were just niftar and the world is still grieving tremendously were wearing theirs.
B'D"H'E
"umacha hashem dima me'al kol panim" (may Hashem wipe away tears from every face)
VIN - If you can, please post shiva details when available.
11
Nov 07, 2011 at 11:43 AM david12 Says:Report as Inappropriate
Does anyone know the parents names of the boys
12
Nov 07, 2011 at 11:42 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Boroch Dayan Haemet!
To #1- The law enforcement authorities haven't even concluded their investigation, before you start throwing out blame for their deaths. It is extremely insensitive on your part to do so. A shanda!
14
Nov 07, 2011 at 11:42 AM shooki Says:Report as Inappropriate
Such a sad way to start the day with a triple tragedy. These two and the little boy from monsey... Three precious young lives were torn away. All we can do is cry and pray that this should stop and the bereaved families should be able to bare the pain. Its a real sad day!
15
Nov 07, 2011 at 11:38 AM realistic Says:Report as Inappropriate
it's so shocking. here you have these innocent bochrim going to yeshiva to learn torah as this is the news that the parents get. it's unimaginable to think what the parents go through.
may hashem comfort them amongst the mourners of zion and jerusalem
16
Nov 07, 2011 at 12:54 PM Chayil Says:Report as Inappropriate
BD'E
This is a horendous tragedy.
May Hashem comfort the families and all of Klaall Yisroel.
There was aSchonbrun family who lost a son in Lakewood about a year or two ago while he was in Yeshiva.
Is this the same family?
17
Nov 07, 2011 at 01:07 PM whacked Says:Report as Inappropriate
The waterbury community is like one large family. When a tragedy befalls it, the whole community shares the pain. Bde. To #13 how insensitive of you, a community just lost two of its members, families lost loved ones, and u start with your mussar schmooz!!! Did it ever occur to you that maybe the boys were waiting anxiously to get back to yeshiva, after not having electric for a full week! Did you ever drive to waterbury?? If you did than you would know that it is possible that they left at a very reasonable time, just the traffic held them back!! Before you shoot off your mouth with disgusting comments, maybe you should be dan lkav zchus! We have to accept what hashem is testing us with, and cope with it. Let us learn and daven for their neshamos!!
18
Nov 07, 2011 at 01:16 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
They were headed back to yeshiva after shabbos at home. If you presumed they were doing anything inappropriate maybe thats a projection of your inclinations but these boys were headed back to a great makom Torah. If they are no longer with us it's reflective of our shortcomings, not theirs.
19
Nov 07, 2011 at 01:21 PM Darth_Zeidah Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This is tragic.
I don't mean to start arguments but I have to ask- Were the two boys wearing their seatbelts? ”
Please explain to us exactly why "you have to ask"?
21
Nov 07, 2011 at 01:25 PM Paulie123 Says:Report as Inappropriate
This tragedy has nothing to do with seatbelts. It has to do with this web site and other sites that are filled with loshon hora, denigration of rabanim and sinas chinam. I have made a commitment to stay away from all these blogs and devote my time learning and being a better father. I feel to blame for getting caught up in this web and I hope some of you see the light as well. the reason why I say some of you and not all of you, becuae there are those that are beyond help. Lets face it, deep down, we know that this site is poisen and the root cause to a lot of our problems
22
Nov 07, 2011 at 01:31 PM AKIVAF Says:Report as Inappropriate
#13 Sane is correct but the timing of his remarks are totally inappropriate and therefore the message will not be received. What if they had a good reason for driving so late? Attend a simcha, someone got sick, or maybe they left earlier and because the driver became tired, they rested and resumed their trip later in the night. We need to help people and educate on safety but wait for a better time.
23
Nov 07, 2011 at 01:31 PM concerned_Jew Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is so terrible sad. Hashem have mercy. Spare us this awful suffering and comform the families of those boy. Ugh. I wish that we have no more of this terrible terrible suffering.
24
Nov 07, 2011 at 01:32 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
The bochrim made a great Kiddush Hashem learning in Brooklyn when they had no electricity back in CT and the boys were heading back to yeshiva. There are no words to console the great Waterbury kehila but our tefilos are with you.
25
Nov 07, 2011 at 01:39 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I was told that they were coming back from a vordt of a bochur in the yeshiva, otherwise they would have come back earlier
26
Nov 07, 2011 at 01:40 PM GEULA Says:Report as Inappropriate
very very sad. i know Mrs. Schonbrun's family. Wonderful, special torah'dig pple. This family has had their share of major major tzaros. Mrs. Chanie Schnobrun (Lerman) was a daughter of a very chashuv man that succumbed to cancer a few years ago. He was a young man in his 50's. Her sister a mother of 8 was killed in a car crash a few years ago. And now Chanie's son. It should be her oldest child. This is the most heartbreaking, heartwrenching story. Such lovely people. What hastaros panim; we must do teshuva. These kids and families are amazing pple.
27
Nov 07, 2011 at 01:45 PM Stuart Szlafrok Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This is tragic.
I don't mean to start arguments but I have to ask- Were the two boys wearing their seatbelts? ”
Who cares? IF they were or if they weren't its not going to bring them back. Everyone should wear seatbelts regardless of whether the niftarim were or not
28
Nov 07, 2011 at 01:53 PM yungerman1 Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This is tragic.
I don't mean to start arguments but I have to ask- Were the two boys wearing their seatbelts? ”
No you dont "have to ask". Go back to your little hole and figure out why.
29
Nov 07, 2011 at 02:07 PM shredready Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This tragedy has nothing to do with seatbelts. It has to do with this web site and other sites that are filled with loshon hora, denigration of rabanim and sinas chinam. I have made a commitment to stay away from all these blogs and devote my time learning and being a better father. I feel to blame for getting caught up in this web and I hope some of you see the light as well. the reason why I say some of you and not all of you, becuae there are those that are beyond help. Lets face it, deep down, we know that this site is poisen and the root cause to a lot of our problems ”
you are blaming the INTERNET for this please
you are like the church who blamed societies problem from the printing press to baseball instead of tackling real hard issues and trying to solve it.
"Lets face it, deep down, we know that this site is poisen and the root cause to a lot of our problems β
like exposing the things that have been covered up for years. Exposing it, and hopefully reduce its occurrences because light and shame has been used
I know to many that is a very great problem
I could go on but now it not the time or the place.
Now is a time of sorrow for a tragic event
offer support to the parents to show they are not alone
31
Nov 07, 2011 at 02:14 PM PchaFresser Says:Report as Inappropriate
Bad week for Connecticut Yeshivas. First Bridgeport, now Waterbury. Hashem is not happy
32
Nov 07, 2011 at 02:29 PM FreezerSpace Says:Report as Inappropriate
A terrible tragedy and the posters on this wall have to fight amongst themselves looking for reasons. I'm trying to decide what's worse.
For all we know, this could have been the test Hashem wanted us to take. To see if we as a community would actually mourn in unison or just bicker with each other. Just terrible.
33
Nov 07, 2011 at 02:33 PM yosefben Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ It is tragic. But seatbelts wouldnt necessarily have helped them anyway. You may not remember the tragic car accident that happened in England where 2 boys were killed and a third very badly injured - they were on the way to a summer camp in the countryside when the car swerved to avoid a deer and crashed on the side of the road - the boys were wearing seatbelts at the time and i happen to know the person who did tahara on one of those poor boys - the injury he received from the seatbelt when he was thrown forward from the force of the accident......! And they still died even with seatbelts :-(
They were chosen as korbanos by Hashem and we dont know why! they must have been special people and i wish their families a nechama. I'm not saying people shouldnt wear seatbelts but at the end of the day i think if Hashem wanted their neshamos back - it would happen with or without seatbelts. ”
B"H read #21...statements like yours make me agree with 21. Why do anyone entrusted to uphold the holiness of a soul's final ritual cleansing dare to speak about what they saw??? And why would you repeat it through veiled intimation. Chilul HaShem and lashon hora!
34
Nov 07, 2011 at 02:41 PM gunit Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is heartbreaking! doe's anyone know if they're Tiferes Yisroel families?
35
Nov 07, 2011 at 02:44 PM sane Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ They were headed back to yeshiva after shabbos at home. If you presumed they were doing anything inappropriate maybe thats a projection of your inclinations but these boys were headed back to a great makom Torah. If they are no longer with us it's reflective of our shortcomings, not theirs. ”
You have missed the point. I am aware that they were on the way to Yeshiva. the point is that it is not necessary to travel by car at 12:30 a.m. Better leave in the morning and miss the first Seder than to travel at night when it is a sakana.
36
Nov 07, 2011 at 02:49 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
It's very sad what happened. People on the boards need to stop dwelling on who what why when and where...and just offer prayers for those that were taken so suddenly. This morning, when I looked at VIN and saw the news, my first thought before clicking the link was I hope it wasn't a particular person that I know that goes there (turns out that particular person went back up to school earlier). Again, stop focusing on who what when why and where, and offer prayers.
37
Nov 07, 2011 at 02:49 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ The waterbury community is like one large family. When a tragedy befalls it, the whole community shares the pain. Bde. To #13 how insensitive of you, a community just lost two of its members, families lost loved ones, and u start with your mussar schmooz!!! Did it ever occur to you that maybe the boys were waiting anxiously to get back to yeshiva, after not having electric for a full week! Did you ever drive to waterbury?? If you did than you would know that it is possible that they left at a very reasonable time, just the traffic held them back!! Before you shoot off your mouth with disgusting comments, maybe you should be dan lkav zchus! We have to accept what hashem is testing us with, and cope with it. Let us learn and daven for their neshamos!! ”
And you, my dear, don't have to use the "shoot off your mouth" verbiage. You can just give him polite musser....gently.... and tell him it was not appropriate...In what way do you think you are better if you display anger and rough language...We are all responsible...we are in this together. We each have to look into our own hearts and investigate "ourselves"!
Sorry...please forgive my mussar to you
38
Nov 07, 2011 at 02:54 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ No you dont "have to ask". Go back to your little hole and figure out why. ”
Same here as my other post.. no need to denegrate.."GO BACK TO YOUR LITTLE HOLE". Don't you see that the way we treat one another is far from respectful???Ugly...to say the least. If you want to tell someone something, there are always polite alternatives, otherwise you show yourself to be none better than the one you are trying to belittle.
39
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:04 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Right now, it's not important what played the role..nice armchair psycology...hindsight is 20/20.... or Monday morning quarterbacking won't bring the kids back. We all know the rules of the road...and if we chas vesholam don't adhere to them, we know tragedy can occur....but wiping the heartbroken parents faces with this, is not what we need right now.Validating their broken hearts...that's what we need to do.
For those of you who are discussing the internet as a poison, be it this or any website...of course you are right....but more than that...the way we interact on these forums leaves a heck of a lot(please pardon my expression...it really hurts)to be desired..I am an insomniac and go through the frum websites late at night. The comments and interaction is "Moiredig"...maybe the first thing we need to do is learn how to be respectful of one another and then take it from there.
May we only hear good news and may the tzoros of Klal Yisroel take an end....
40
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:05 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
No it didn't and stop putting suspensions on the driver. I know the road and a car could have cut him off and he went off the road and flipped over. Have Rachmonus on the families, on the bochurim and on the Driver. How do you think he feels. Say some tehellim and daven that Hashem heals the sick both physically and mentally.
Everybody has the what ifs, what if he was early or later, what if the vort was a day early or later or timing was different. STOP and instead daven. We don't know if they had seat belts and we should wear them but let us not put that into this equation; inside daven for the all the families involved.
41
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:17 PM ilovehashem Says:Report as Inappropriate
Remark to #13 whats your problem why does every terreble thing that happen in our community especially to youngsters has to have a negetive reason..Why does it have to do with any type of behavior just beacuse they left to yesh at midnight ..Are you some type of primitive thinking person what has all the nonsence that you write about got to do with the fact that Am Yisrael just lost 2 precious young lives & that we are all in mourning ...Hashem ways are mistiyrious and we dont know why these 2 boys had to leave this world all we can do right now is pray for refuah shleima to all the other passangers that were hurt and be there is every way for the families who lost thier sons...#13 think before you say anything stupid..
42
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:19 PM peace Says:Report as Inappropriate
To # 13 Maybee if there were less people like you in am Yisrael who are so fast to judge others negetivly for no reoson there would be less tragidies like this ..We need to practise more Ahavas chinam then sinaat chinamm...shame shame shame on you..
43
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:31 PM Yoni Says:Report as Inappropriate
"Klal Yisroel Devastated..."
You know, I bet even 1 or 2 non-Jews were "devastated" to learn of this tragedy. May the families be comforted.
44
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:33 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:Report as Inappropriate
It is pointless to harp on the details when the tragedy is so fresh. The Waterbury kehila is torn and there are no words to express to ease the pain. There will be plenty of time to discuss the circumstances and who was wearing what and why were they there and so on. Now is not the time or the place and those that ask such questions simply don't feel the pain for whatever reason so their focus is not on the families, rabbeim and friends who are so devastated by this loss. May all those hurting be comforted as the kol Torah in Waterbury will only take chizuk from knowing these boys and the yeshiva will continue to be a great source of pride for all of Klal Yisroel.
45
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:39 PM t4688 Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Bad week for Connecticut Yeshivas. First Bridgeport, now Waterbury. Hashem is not happy ”
What happened in Bridgeport?
46
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:48 PM NewYorkCity Says:Report as Inappropriate
Please say tehillim for Avraham Ben Bracha who sustained severe injuries in the accident and will be going through extensive surgery in a short while....Refuah Shleimah!
47
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:50 PM genmill Says:Report as Inappropriate
Guys this is so sad and we are making it worse.
Everyone think to yourself what you may but let's not get petty and stupid before the bodies are even in the ground.
Go home and try to be a better jew today that's all.
Achdus guys, come on please.........
48
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:53 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This tragedy has nothing to do with seatbelts. It has to do with this web site and other sites that are filled with loshon hora, denigration of rabanim and sinas chinam. I have made a commitment to stay away from all these blogs and devote my time learning and being a better father. I feel to blame for getting caught up in this web and I hope some of you see the light as well. the reason why I say some of you and not all of you, becuae there are those that are beyond help. Lets face it, deep down, we know that this site is poisen and the root cause to a lot of our problems ”
" there are those [of you] that are beyond help. Lets face it, deep down, we know that this site [VIN} is poisen and the root cause to a lot of our problemsβ
NO, Paulie....this site is NOT the problem. It is the best source of current and accurate news and uncensorsed debate on the the internet and a real kiddush hashem....YOU and your mindless effort to muzzle discussion and blame everything on lashon haroh and other moral failures of yidden are the problem. Bad things happen. Hashgacha paratis does not translate into a cause-effect relationship between intellectual disagreements and normal tragedies. With hundreds of thousands, if not millions of frum yidden driving on America's highway, by definition there will be periodic tragedies that are not the result of posting on VIN or anywhere else. Get some control of yourself.
49
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:57 PM shtus Says:Report as Inappropriate
umm r u kidding me??? unacceptable to drive at 1230 at night what planet are u living on? dont try to blame an accident like this on our culture this is obviously something that only God can explain
50
Nov 07, 2011 at 03:59 PM Moshe4753 Says:Report as Inappropriate
so sad. I hope their families will be comforted during this terrible time.
51
Nov 07, 2011 at 04:59 PM Darth_Zeidah Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This tragedy has nothing to do with seatbelts. It has to do with this web site and other sites that are filled with loshon hora, denigration of rabanim and sinas chinam. I have made a commitment to stay away from all these blogs and devote my time learning and being a better father. I feel to blame for getting caught up in this web and I hope some of you see the light as well. the reason why I say some of you and not all of you, becuae there are those that are beyond help. Lets face it, deep down, we know that this site is poisen and the root cause to a lot of our problems ”
" I have made a commitment to stay away from all these blogs"
Then welcome back, Paulie123!! Clearly, your "commitment" did not last too long.
We shall be keeping a close eye out for any future pronouncements from you.
52
Nov 07, 2011 at 05:03 PM Darth_Zeidah Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This is heartbreaking! doe's anyone know if they're Tiferes Yisroel families? ”
No, and it does not matter which kehilla they belonged to. All of us are HaShem's creations.
53
Nov 07, 2011 at 05:14 PM YJay1 Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This tragedy has nothing to do with seatbelts. It has to do with this web site and other sites that are filled with loshon hora, denigration of rabanim and sinas chinam. I have made a commitment to stay away from all these blogs and devote my time learning and being a better father. I feel to blame for getting caught up in this web and I hope some of you see the light as well. the reason why I say some of you and not all of you, becuae there are those that are beyond help. Lets face it, deep down, we know that this site is poisen and the root cause to a lot of our problems ”
Though I'm not sure that this is the reason for these tragedies
since I'm no Godol Hador, I totally agree that the cynicism and negativity to anything holy that's posted on this blog is way out of control.
I see one of our usual posters is very excited that we are "exposing" various
subjects for the whole world to see. Yes, there is a wide array of subjects that should be exposed and kudos to VIN for doing us this service, but not EVERYTHING. Some subjects should be discussed only by certain people who 1.) can actually make a difference instead of just bashing 2.) understand the subject from an objective point of view 3.) are professionals etc.(each category respectively).
People, remember when you post that the whole world is watching - don't make a Chillul Hashem!
54
Nov 07, 2011 at 05:20 PM RachelJD Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ A terrible tragedy and the posters on this wall have to fight amongst themselves looking for reasons. I'm trying to decide what's worse.
For all we know, this could have been the test Hashem wanted us to take. To see if we as a community would actually mourn in unison or just bicker with each other. Just terrible. ”
Everything is a test from Hashem. And the remarks I've seen on VIN both with this story and others make me think that KLAL YISRAEL got a big red "F" on this test.
Why were they driving, were they wearing seatbelts, why were they driving in that particular direction, and the comment that a person drove by the wreck but didnt realize that it was yeshiva bochers who had died in the accident. Please, the loss of two young lives in such a horrible way is a tragedy no matter who they are. Our first words and thoughts in these situations should only those of compassion, not judgment or rude inquiry into details that wont bring these beautiful neshama's back. Please, as Jews we are called to be the compassionate children of a compassionate Father.
To Freezer Space and the posters who have posted along the same lines, thank you for showing that there are people who have seichel and rachmones, to those who posted otherwise. grab a volume of Talmud, or Pirkey Avot, daven,whatever but please enough of this bickering and just plain shameful behavior
55
Nov 07, 2011 at 05:25 PM whacked Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ And you, my dear, don't have to use the "shoot off your mouth" verbiage. You can just give him polite musser....gently.... and tell him it was not appropriate...In what way do you think you are better if you display anger and rough language...We are all responsible...we are in this together. We each have to look into our own hearts and investigate "ourselves"!
Sorry...please forgive my mussar to you ”
To #37. You are right, I guess I just got caught up in the moment and was very disturbed. I apologize.
56
Nov 07, 2011 at 05:29 PM bubii Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ umm r u kidding me??? unacceptable to drive at 1230 at night what planet are u living on? dont try to blame an accident like this on our culture this is obviously something that only God can explain ”
#13 is 100 per cent right a person is used to sleep at that time and if not he should be to get a good rest for the coming day our society is out of control in many things the parents should make sure kids dont stay up too late it is common sense .
57
Nov 07, 2011 at 06:01 PM LashonTov Says:Report as Inappropriate
First a child is struck and killed by vehicle in Monsey, then these bachurim from Flatbush are killed on their way back to Yeshiva and now a toddler in Eretz Yisrael burns to death in her family vehicle in their own driveway!
According to Rambam (Hil. Taanis 1:1-3), it is a positive commandment of the Torah for every individual to cry out and search his ways at a time of national calamity, for G-d visits calamities upon Israel to inspire each Jew to repent for his misdeeds. If someone fails to recognize that tragedies occur through an act of G-d rather [than] through happenstance, he is considered cruel, because he will not be motivated to improve his behavior. as a result, G-d will beset Israel with more troubles, until all are motivated to change their ways.
58
Nov 07, 2011 at 06:03 PM rr2007 Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This is eerily reminiscent of the similarly tragic summer camp van accident that occurred in August 2007 in Maine. ”
I am the mother of the bochur who was niftar in that accident. Yes it is eerily reminiscent.
I have been watching the comments here throughout the day. The families are in deep pain, worse than most of us can ever imagine.
No matter whether seat belts or not, this was clearly meant to be and would have happened regardless, because it was decided by Hashem long ago. This is the only way a bereaved parent can look at such a tragedy.
My son was not wearing a seatbelt. He flew from the van and the van rolled on him. Although once in awhile a person can be killed because of the seat belt, it is much more likely to be saved by a seat belt. I cannot tell you the remorse I have had over the fact that he was not wearing the belt, which could have been a lifeline. At the same time, I have to believe that it was going to happen no matter what.
We don't know whether these boys were wearing seat belts or not. But since the topic has been raised, let's all wear them from now on and therefore do this simple hishtadlus to avoid such a tragic situation in the future.
Please convince people to make a habit of it. Drivers please don't drive unless everyone is belted!
59
Nov 07, 2011 at 06:06 PM shredready Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ "Klal Yisroel Devastated..."
You know, I bet even 1 or 2 non-Jews were "devastated" to learn of this tragedy. May the families be comforted. ”
you are sick
any person is devastated when a young person gets killed
maybe because you do not care when a goy gets killed you cannot understand that they might be affected when a yid get killed
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Nov 07, 2011 at 06:30 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ #13 is 100 per cent right a person is used to sleep at that time and if not he should be to get a good rest for the coming day our society is out of control in many things the parents should make sure kids dont stay up too late it is common sense . ”
Azoy...so by your logic, bochurim should not stay up late at night learning or going out for chulent on Thursday nights since that could result in all sorts of horrible accidents and tragedies.
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Nov 07, 2011 at 06:32 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
#52. you are wrong & #34 is right. both boys & their brothers went to yeshiva tiferes yisroel for elementary school. the whole flatbush is in mourning as well as yidden everywhere.
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Nov 07, 2011 at 07:03 PM Anon18 Says:Report as Inappropriate
The van they were traveling in was a death trap. That particular model has been known to roll over for years. It is amazing they are still allowed on the road. The van is very popular with organizations and livery services. If there are other organzations out there still using this, they need to get rid of them immediately - or never fill it to the maximum passenger capacity. There have been stories about this type of van and the rollovers they are involved with on "60 Minutes" and other TV programs.
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Nov 07, 2011 at 08:24 PM spring valley resident Says:Report as Inappropriate
Reply to number 58:thank you for coming out and sharing ur experience. I was thinking of the parents who had lost their son in the maine accident. It must be really hurting you now.the pain must be unbearable. The parents of this accident are relying on ur help,of how u and ur family coped. Yes seatbelts do save lives.but Hasham has his ways. As u noted and I have heard the same phrase repeating itself from parents who have unfortunately lost a child "that's what Hashem wanted"this I was told is some ppl tools to help them through. May Hashem grant u and ur family with all the strength u need to help the ppl who r unfortunately now in the situation u were in and still in. May we here gut besiros from all of us in klal yisroel.may Hashem have rachmunus on us.
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Nov 07, 2011 at 08:30 PM Canadian Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ "Klal Yisroel Devastated..."
You know, I bet even 1 or 2 non-Jews were "devastated" to learn of this tragedy. May the families be comforted. ”
Klal Yisroel is a family...obviously we understand others might be saddened but we are a Klal, an a family suffers and is saddened more than strangers.
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Nov 07, 2011 at 06:51 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I am the mother of the bochur who was niftar in that accident. Yes it is eerily reminiscent.
I have been watching the comments here throughout the day. The families are in deep pain, worse than most of us can ever imagine.
No matter whether seat belts or not, this was clearly meant to be and would have happened regardless, because it was decided by Hashem long ago. This is the only way a bereaved parent can look at such a tragedy.
My son was not wearing a seatbelt. He flew from the van and the van rolled on him. Although once in awhile a person can be killed because of the seat belt, it is much more likely to be saved by a seat belt. I cannot tell you the remorse I have had over the fact that he was not wearing the belt, which could have been a lifeline. At the same time, I have to believe that it was going to happen no matter what.
We don't know whether these boys were wearing seat belts or not. But since the topic has been raised, let's all wear them from now on and therefore do this simple hishtadlus to avoid such a tragic situation in the future.
Please convince people to make a habit of it. Drivers please don't drive unless everyone is belted! ”
I hope time has helped ease the pain of your loss. You are right, it was going to happen regardless, don't dwell on the remorse, focus on the brachos you're zocheh to.
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Nov 07, 2011 at 08:11 PM yehudis Says:Report as Inappropriate
Hashem should give the parents and all the boys involved the strength to survive this terrible tragedy. I recall a similar accident years ago in a boys camp in the catskills resulting in the tragic death of one of the boys. It was later discovered that the camp was missing numerous Mezuzohs on their various doors. As well, a school in Erets Yisroel on a camping trip and were ambushed in Maalot with countless deaths of the students. again the building they were in lacked Mezuzohs. The Rabbi mentioned that this is unfortunately not the first tragedy of this nature at the Yeshiva, perhaps it might be an idea to check the mezuzohs of the yeshivah building. May we never hear of such tragedies again.
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Nov 07, 2011 at 07:02 PM GEULA Says:Report as Inappropriate
This was a gzeira and YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT. This has nothing to do with the details of the accident. These boys were good boys. For those that are dissecting details clearly are those that need to learn that HKB"H is doing it so that we get closer to him and learn that his word , is THE WORD. There are many things that will happen as messages to us yidden and it is comforting for a basar vedom to begin trying to understand the reasons. When reasons are not understood (cus their simply above us, min hashamayim), they begin pointing fingers and making their own reasoning. cus we are a generation of Instant. Instant knowledge, reason or gratification. We have to connect to hashem and we will thus learn that some things are greater than our understanding and power; let go of your control of trying to know everything. You will thus be comforted and strengthened and get closer to hashem by knowing that this was meant to happen. And this was meant as a message for us to be Yefashfesh Bemaseinu. Too many people commenting here are unfortunately missing the point. We cannot afford more karbanos. STOP THE BICKERING AND GET TO WORK!!!!!!
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Nov 07, 2011 at 07:11 PM gunit Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ No, and it does not matter which kehilla they belonged to. All of us are HaShem's creations. ”
They actually are! and the attitude is unnecessary!!
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Nov 07, 2011 at 07:38 PM bennyt Says:Report as Inappropriate
No one is to blame for this tragic accident. In the end, it was the will of Ribono Shel Olam that these two neshomos return to their Maker. Hashem caused the snow storm nine days ago which caused the power outage in Waterbury which caused the yeshiva to send the boys home for the week until the power was restored which caused the van to drive back to Waterbury. We are not zocheh to understand Hashem's ways nor do we have the right to question Him. We must all, once again, take a good, honest look at ourselves individually and as a K'lal and see what we can do to become better Jews.
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Nov 07, 2011 at 09:38 PM Simple Jew Says:Report as Inappropriate
B"H
BDE. Not sure why I feel compelled to even answer the people who question if they were wearing a seatbelt. I have no idea if they were or were not wearing but there is no law for a teen of that age to wear a seatbelt in the backseat.
I am sure many of the people who asked the "seatbelt" question don't always wear seatbelts themselves in back seats.
Only because people are reading this I think everyone should be warned of the serious dangers of the large vans. See websites like vanangels dot com for more details about why we have to all be EXTRA careful when driving those big vans. I personally drive one on a regular basis and was suprised to learn that the air pressure in rear tires is like 80 + and the front is like 55. Most tire guages don't even go past 60.
If you ever drive one of them now or in the future -- take a few minutes to read about how to make them as safe as possible.
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Nov 07, 2011 at 11:07 PM schwartzi Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ The van they were traveling in was a death trap. That particular model has been known to roll over for years. It is amazing they are still allowed on the road. The van is very popular with organizations and livery services. If there are other organzations out there still using this, they need to get rid of them immediately - or never fill it to the maximum passenger capacity. There have been stories about this type of van and the rollovers they are involved with on "60 Minutes" and other TV programs. ”
so how come most if not all play groups and kindergartens in boro park and flatbush who use car services for transportation,(as opposed to yellow school mini buses) let the little children ride on these vans?
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Nov 07, 2011 at 11:11 PM schwartzi Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ The van they were traveling in was a death trap. That particular model has been known to roll over for years. It is amazing they are still allowed on the road. The van is very popular with organizations and livery services. If there are other organzations out there still using this, they need to get rid of them immediately - or never fill it to the maximum passenger capacity. There have been stories about this type of van and the rollovers they are involved with on "60 Minutes" and other TV programs. ”
so how come "most" playgroups and kindergartens in boro park let the pre 1a children ride on these "illegal" 15 passenger vans,when they use car services to transport the children to school? anyone have any idea what is the FEDERAL penalty when one uses these vans,as opposed to yellow school buses? answer: about $ 10,000 per day.
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Nov 08, 2011 at 01:20 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ To #37. You are right, I guess I just got caught up in the moment and was very disturbed. I apologize. ”
#37 appreciate the apology. But it's not to me you need to do that...you need to apologize the people you hurt. I wasn't hurt. I was offended that you hurt another jew. We need ahavas chinum always, but now more than ever. Hashem is showing us so clearly what he wants from us. First we have to start by really loving our fellow man like ourselves and treat them with respect. I think once we think along that line...everything falls into place....treat others as you would like to be treated...can't be clearer than that.
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Nov 08, 2011 at 01:32 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This was a gzeira and YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT. This has nothing to do with the details of the accident. These boys were good boys. For those that are dissecting details clearly are those that need to learn that HKB"H is doing it so that we get closer to him and learn that his word , is THE WORD. There are many things that will happen as messages to us yidden and it is comforting for a basar vedom to begin trying to understand the reasons. When reasons are not understood (cus their simply above us, min hashamayim), they begin pointing fingers and making their own reasoning. cus we are a generation of Instant. Instant knowledge, reason or gratification. We have to connect to hashem and we will thus learn that some things are greater than our understanding and power; let go of your control of trying to know everything. You will thus be comforted and strengthened and get closer to hashem by knowing that this was meant to happen. And this was meant as a message for us to be Yefashfesh Bemaseinu. Too many people commenting here are unfortunately missing the point. We cannot afford more karbanos. STOP THE BICKERING AND GET TO WORK!!!!!! ”
You are 100% right but we can still alert people to possible dangers because we have to do our hishtadlus in keeping safe on all levels. Having said that, Hashem is in charge of our lives and we are in his hands, for sure. As long as we discuss things with respect and honesty, without using foul language or hurting one another, if we do it for the sake of the klal...we are doing fine...Just keep things in perspective and respectfully...
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Nov 08, 2011 at 01:24 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I am the mother of the bochur who was niftar in that accident. Yes it is eerily reminiscent.
I have been watching the comments here throughout the day. The families are in deep pain, worse than most of us can ever imagine.
No matter whether seat belts or not, this was clearly meant to be and would have happened regardless, because it was decided by Hashem long ago. This is the only way a bereaved parent can look at such a tragedy.
My son was not wearing a seatbelt. He flew from the van and the van rolled on him. Although once in awhile a person can be killed because of the seat belt, it is much more likely to be saved by a seat belt. I cannot tell you the remorse I have had over the fact that he was not wearing the belt, which could have been a lifeline. At the same time, I have to believe that it was going to happen no matter what.
We don't know whether these boys were wearing seat belts or not. But since the topic has been raised, let's all wear them from now on and therefore do this simple hishtadlus to avoid such a tragic situation in the future.
Please convince people to make a habit of it. Drivers please don't drive unless everyone is belted! ”
May Hashem comfort you ...loosing a child in such a tragic way...is a pain a mother lives with always. Thanks for your kind and wise words..May we hear the shofar shel moshiach soon.
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Nov 08, 2011 at 09:45 AM Chaimd Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ You have missed the point. I am aware that they were on the way to Yeshiva. the point is that it is not necessary to travel by car at 12:30 a.m. Better leave in the morning and miss the first Seder than to travel at night when it is a sakana. ”
Sometimes night driving is better than day driving. Who says this has anything to do with the time of night. Hashgacha Protis happens whenever wherever.
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Nov 08, 2011 at 10:22 AM Truth Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This tragedy has nothing to do with seatbelts. It has to do with this web site and other sites that are filled with loshon hora, denigration of rabanim and sinas chinam. I have made a commitment to stay away from all these blogs and devote my time learning and being a better father. I feel to blame for getting caught up in this web and I hope some of you see the light as well. the reason why I say some of you and not all of you, becuae there are those that are beyond help. Lets face it, deep down, we know that this site is poisen and the root cause to a lot of our problems ”
Paulie -you might be right - it might not have anything to do with seatbelts, but there is nothing wrong with mentioning anytime you can -that seatbelts save lives.
Now let's see what else can save lives:
1. Only experienced drivers should drive other passengers, esp. in a van. A 22 y.o. doesn't cut it.
2. Travel should be restricted for long distance trips to daylight hours or at least to early evening hours.
I'm not trying to post blame, but any lesson you can learn is for the benefit of all!
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Nov 09, 2011 at 07:19 PM favish Says:Report as Inappropriate
#21 how do you know in waterberry they have all these faults?