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East Brunswick, NJ - At Agudah Convention: Brooklyn Rabbi Proposes Kosher 24/6 Internet Centers (video)

Published on: November 25, 2011 01:04 PM
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Rabbi Avraham Schorr is a Rabbi in Flatbush, NY and Rav of Kahal Tiferes Yaakov, speaking at the 89th Agudath convention on Nov 24 2011 being held at The Hilton hotel in East Brunswick, NJ. Photo: Shimon GifterRabbi Avraham Schorr is a Rabbi in Flatbush, NY and Rav of Kahal Tiferes Yaakov, speaking at the 89th Agudath convention on Nov 24 2011 being held at The Hilton hotel in East Brunswick, NJ. Photo: Shimon Gifter

East Brunswick, NJ - A highly sought after Flatbush Rov who is prominent on the lecture circuit came out strongly against the dangers of technology yesterday on the opening day of 89th Annual Agudah Convention and suggested that the internet be banned in every Jewish home and replaced with tightly supervised internet centers that would be open around the clock, 24/6.

Rabbi Avrohom Schorr, Rav of Kahal Tiferes Yaakov and son of the former Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshiva Torah V’daath, Rav Gedalia Schorr, z’l, blamed cellphones, texting and internet use for some of the serious problems plaguing klal yisroel today and suggested that the only way to solve these problems is to drastically reduce the use of technology. Suggesting that a kosher-phone-only policy be adopted in America, like it has in places in Israel.

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Rabbi Schorr spoke at length about the dangers posed by iPhones, among other technological devices.

Explaining that by removing the internet from every Jewish household in America and allowing people to go online only for work related matters at proposed internet sites, countless Jewish neshamos could be saved, Rabbi Schorr outlined a plan whereby every Jewish neighborhood would house an internet center containing a large number of state of the art computers, under strict supervision, available at all times except for Shabbos and Yomim Tovim.

People listen in as Rav Schorr speaks. Photo: Shimon GifterPeople listen in as Rav Schorr speaks. Photo: Shimon Gifter

Watch below Rav Schorr’s full speech. Credit: Shimon Gifter



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Read Comments (79)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:13 PM UseYourHead Says:

Ideal? Perhaps. Practical? Not even close.

2

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:10 PM Geulah Says:

I absolutely love Rav Avrohom. I have enjoyed his speeches and his erudition for years. However, we already have 24/6 sometimes 24/6.5 coffee klatches for bored out their minds Yidden. We have more distractions than we can count. We need geshmak. Where is the geshmak? Where is the reality check that every boy and girl is not Moshe Rabbeinu and nor should they be? Where is being a mensch a chastizeable offense?

3

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:17 PM UseYourHead Says:

The Rabbonim are attempting to treat the symptoms instead of the disease.

4

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:09 PM chachom Says:

I stopped going to the convention about 10 years ago when I realized that whatever gets discussed is never implemented (remember takonos at chasunas).

5

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:22 PM Vasserman Says:

Shut down the molesters and you will save far more neshamos than kosher internet centers ever will.

6

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:30 PM YOELYG Says:

Reply to #4  
chachom Says:

I stopped going to the convention about 10 years ago when I realized that whatever gets discussed is never implemented (remember takonos at chasunas).

Shefela: in try state area we have already 10 wedding halls for chasina takuns that 60% yiden using it already so pls check ur facts before posting noncense, tnx rav shorr for mentioning that, in the holy city kiryas joel we have such thing already

7

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:38 PM UseYourHead Says:

This is like blaming cars for accidents, or guns for shootings.....

8

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:41 PM Sociologist Says:

With all due respect to Rav Schorr, he like many before him in past generations find a scapegost for what ails the community. He should look within and will then realize that external influences are not the problem.

9

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Sociologist Says:

With all due respect to Rav Schorr, he like many before him in past generations find a scapegost for what ails the community. He should look within and will then realize that external influences are not the problem.

why should he look within, it's us that need to look within. this is our problem not the Rabonim.

10

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:57 PM for_real Says:

Reply to #7  
UseYourHead Says:

This is like blaming cars for accidents, or guns for shootings.....

I can not have said it any better.
The problem is that every Jewish child grows up being taught Judaism as such: "This is how we are to act and this what we are supposed to do." There is no explanation. There is no understanding. A child must try to gain understanding of religion, basically, on their own. What happens is, people do not FEEL what they are doing and don't feel committed to it. Internet is NOT the problem! It is a TOOL! If someone is to do something inappropriate, there are many ways to do it. Internet is just one way.

11

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:56 PM qazxc Says:

Start acting like leaders and raise the kavod of the rabbonim and roshai yeshivos. Stop with your new kol koreh every month. Stop banning books you haven't read. Stop signing letters and bans you haven't read.

Perhaps then klal yisroel will follow.

Don't talk to me about the dangers of pritzus on the internet until you get the pritzus child molestation out of yeshivos.

Don't talk to me about following da'as Torah until you get the gedolim on the mo'etzes to answer a hazmanah from rav moshe ztz"l from 30 years ago.

Don't lecture to me about frumkeit until you at least start to teach mentchlichkeit in your yeshivos.

Don't talk to me about ahavas yisrael and about having kavod for torah and roshai yeshiva and rabbonim until you go beg mechilla at the kever of reb chaim brisker's grandson ztz"l for making a gelechta out of him just because he was too big-minded to get into all the yeshivasheh shtick and taught gemara to talmidim no matter where they were.

Stop chasing kavod and gelt. Most of all, stop putting on a show.

We need role models for ourselves and our children, not entertainers and dictators.

12

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:54 PM AlbertEinstein Says:

There is a tendency in this age to ignore or diminish one's personal responsibility in favor of blaming external influences. Since the Eruv Rav (since the Nachash haKadmoni?), man has been exposed to external influences. They are merely the tools of the Sitra Achra.

Those influences are not to blame, nor is the S"A. They are vehicles for setting up nisyonos that man is required to face in this world and overcome (see introduction to the Mesilas Yeshorim), in order to achieve his destiny in the Olam haEmess.

It's the individuals who succumb to the Internet who are to blame - and who will give din v'cheshbon - not the Internet (I'm talking to myself, BTW).

13

 Nov 25, 2011 at 01:47 PM Sruly Says:

Firstly, I was zoiche to be in attendance at this massive gathering of yidden from all backgrounds that came to be inspired. They all knew that they were coming to hear about this undeniable plague. As one of the speakers pointed out, this is OUR problem and we should be begging for the Rabonim's help rather than the Rabonim coming to us.

One of the speakers mentioned that the use of technology may be a symptom of emptiness etc. which WE the people must combat by bringing back true meaning to our personal and family lives. However, we must realize that we have a huge problem. A kid told his adult friend that he'll break his phone if it's an iphone because the iphone took away his father - he spends all his time on it instead of doing homework with him, talking to him and giving him attention! Don't you all see this all the time? I can speak for myself, as much as I try to give my kids some undivided attention I find it very difficult when I get interrupted with the buzzing and beeping of my blackberry.

Instead of discussing why solutions are 'unpractical' why don't you write a positive comment? Share with someone your idea how to rid our community from the mageifa.

14

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:05 PM inNY Says:

Here is my proposal to Rav Schorr, In you shul you have more than a Minyan Yiddin, that I know have internet at home because of their business, would you return the money to them what they have given to you, becasue they have unfilrted internet at home?? or perhaps would you advice them to go to the new 24/6 internet cafe?

15

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:10 PM PopUp Says:

Rav Schorr is a powerful speaker, that's where it starts, and ends.. he is proposing something that will never happen, I'm surprised Agudah gave him the podium.

16

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:19 PM inNY Says:

Rabbi, there are many frum Yiddin including Rabbis who sit in secular courts, can you please address that first.. after that we can worry about the internet.

17

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
qazxc Says:

Start acting like leaders and raise the kavod of the rabbonim and roshai yeshivos. Stop with your new kol koreh every month. Stop banning books you haven't read. Stop signing letters and bans you haven't read.

Perhaps then klal yisroel will follow.

Don't talk to me about the dangers of pritzus on the internet until you get the pritzus child molestation out of yeshivos.

Don't talk to me about following da'as Torah until you get the gedolim on the mo'etzes to answer a hazmanah from rav moshe ztz"l from 30 years ago.

Don't lecture to me about frumkeit until you at least start to teach mentchlichkeit in your yeshivos.

Don't talk to me about ahavas yisrael and about having kavod for torah and roshai yeshiva and rabbonim until you go beg mechilla at the kever of reb chaim brisker's grandson ztz"l for making a gelechta out of him just because he was too big-minded to get into all the yeshivasheh shtick and taught gemara to talmidim no matter where they were.

Stop chasing kavod and gelt. Most of all, stop putting on a show.

We need role models for ourselves and our children, not entertainers and dictators.

You hit it right on the nail. Could'nt have said it better!!

18

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:10 PM A Rabbi Says:

When a Rov makes these types of recommendations for the broad community people can come to the rightful conclusion that these Rabbonim are out of touch with reality. They make a joke of themselves.

Maybe we should ban going on subways because of the lack of tznius on the people (especially during the summer)and on the advertisements. We should also ban listening to the am radio because of all the ads for ED.

My suggestion is that the leaders look within and they will find the answer and solution for all the ills in our kehilois.

19

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
YOELYG Says:

Shefela: in try state area we have already 10 wedding halls for chasina takuns that 60% yiden using it already so pls check ur facts before posting noncense, tnx rav shorr for mentioning that, in the holy city kiryas joel we have such thing already

The takanos were NOT implemented. The vort was NOT discontinued. The guidelines said: Eliminate vorts. A l'chaim should be held preferably in the kalla's home with close family and close friends, without a party planner, professional musicians, hot dishes or floral treatments. That some people choose to use these cheap halls is wonderful. That doesn't mean the takanos signed to be those rabbis are being adhered to.

20

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:02 PM JamesDean Says:

There have been external influences on us since we were created. For generations, our beliefs had been more attractive than the external influences, many time under the pain of death.

Perhaps the question we should be asking is "why can't we make Torah Yiddishkeit more attractive than an iPhone?"

21

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:27 PM ZehHu Says:

Interesting to note, this week is also the Chabad shluchim conference.. they don't have such type of speakers on podium... the Kinus is uplifting, spiritual. I find Rabbi Schorr's speech very troubling, extremely negative, zero uplifting.

22

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:35 PM Moish Says:

Reply to #21  
ZehHu Says:

Interesting to note, this week is also the Chabad shluchim conference.. they don't have such type of speakers on podium... the Kinus is uplifting, spiritual. I find Rabbi Schorr's speech very troubling, extremely negative, zero uplifting.

You find it troubling because its the truth. I am sure you would find nefesh hachayim, choivas halvovos and all mussar seforim troubling becuase you have no intertest in improving yourself and safegusrding yourself from danger

23

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:24 PM FBF37 Says:

Rabbi Schorr is known as someone who is very to right. If Aguda was actually serious about this then they should have someone more in the center speak about this. Truth is either way it will never happen as others have already commented. But with Rav Schorr talking about it it will be DOA.

24

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:48 PM ZehHu Says:

Reply to #22  
Moish Says:

You find it troubling because its the truth. I am sure you would find nefesh hachayim, choivas halvovos and all mussar seforim troubling becuase you have no intertest in improving yourself and safegusrding yourself from danger

Excuse me, Rav Schorr's speech is no nefesh hachayim, or choivas halvovos. Did you hear ONE word in his speech about Emunah, Bitachon, or about the Jews being a light onto the nation.. .His speech sounds more like a dictator in a military, his speech failed genuine warmth, and hearth.

25

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:38 PM AriGold Says:

I'm reading through all the comments here and every single one raises good points. However the bottom line is that we do have an issue here. Since the Internet has come to be countless homes have been broken. Children have been exposed to inappropriate content which has robbed them of their innocence. Just take a look at the guardyoureyes website for just a glimpse of this awful malady.
I personally have kept the Internet out of my home. However there is something to be said for those who responsibly install the proper filters on their devices. I'm willing to bet that in the not so distant future it will be impossible to live without Internet access. Children who grow up learning that they cannot surf the Internet without a filter will probably be better off than those who don't have Internet at all.
Bottom line is that we're living in a generation which forces us to have true yirat shamayim even when nobody is watching. Perhaps it's the final nisayon before the arrival of moshiach. Those who care to protect themselves with filters will most certainly be afforded Heavenly assistance.

26

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:37 PM for_real Says:

Reply to #13  
Sruly Says:

Firstly, I was zoiche to be in attendance at this massive gathering of yidden from all backgrounds that came to be inspired. They all knew that they were coming to hear about this undeniable plague. As one of the speakers pointed out, this is OUR problem and we should be begging for the Rabonim's help rather than the Rabonim coming to us.

One of the speakers mentioned that the use of technology may be a symptom of emptiness etc. which WE the people must combat by bringing back true meaning to our personal and family lives. However, we must realize that we have a huge problem. A kid told his adult friend that he'll break his phone if it's an iphone because the iphone took away his father - he spends all his time on it instead of doing homework with him, talking to him and giving him attention! Don't you all see this all the time? I can speak for myself, as much as I try to give my kids some undivided attention I find it very difficult when I get interrupted with the buzzing and beeping of my blackberry.

Instead of discussing why solutions are 'unpractical' why don't you write a positive comment? Share with someone your idea how to rid our community from the mageifa.

Again, this is addressing blaming a gun for shooting people! A father who does not give his son attention because of an iphone?? The issue here is the father, not the phone. If a father would rather spend time on his smartphone than with his child, then shame on him. He is deficient as a father! As a father myself (as are most of us), that is a ludicrous statement. I can see an adolescent looking for meaning and blaming it on the phone, but we should know better. There have been terrible parents from the beginning of time. The iphone was invented within the past 6 years.

27

 Nov 25, 2011 at 02:55 PM a-simple-jew Says:

Yes the Interent is serious problem in our community, but this is not a practical suggestion as to how to deal with it.

28

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:07 PM alephbais Says:

Rabbi Schor. His community has their fair share of internet users , need I say more.
Convince these, your most ardent followers to give up their smart phones, tablets and internet before you impose this on everyone else.
Show us that you can control your own small minyan and then maybe we will give you our attention.

29

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:17 PM problems before internet Says:

May I meekly remind the olam that there were problems and possibilities of all kinds long before there was an internet!
There are halochos mentioned even in the Torah about family relations etc, long before internet.

30

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:21 PM Credit Says:

At least we should give credit to this Rav, for openly admitting that the Internet is here and we can't ban it altogether.

31

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:43 PM Anonymous Says:

There is no question the whole internet & technology has changed the world as well our community.....here is a chushiver ruv talmid chuchom saying a devar miser which he thinks is the right thing to say & do ( in which most of all would agree that it is a viable problem & has destroyed many families ) who are we stupid bloggers to comment & judge this ruv if he is right or wrong to suggest it or not..... I am not here saying it would be easy to implement or that myself would follow through......but please lets not mock the rabanim for doing what our rebbes & sages did all through our generations since mount sinai which is giving direction & try to keep klal yisroel getting better.......lets not forget if not our rebbes we would not be here today.....

32

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:45 PM A Says:

Reply to #25  
AriGold Says:

I'm reading through all the comments here and every single one raises good points. However the bottom line is that we do have an issue here. Since the Internet has come to be countless homes have been broken. Children have been exposed to inappropriate content which has robbed them of their innocence. Just take a look at the guardyoureyes website for just a glimpse of this awful malady.
I personally have kept the Internet out of my home. However there is something to be said for those who responsibly install the proper filters on their devices. I'm willing to bet that in the not so distant future it will be impossible to live without Internet access. Children who grow up learning that they cannot surf the Internet without a filter will probably be better off than those who don't have Internet at all.
Bottom line is that we're living in a generation which forces us to have true yirat shamayim even when nobody is watching. Perhaps it's the final nisayon before the arrival of moshiach. Those who care to protect themselves with filters will most certainly be afforded Heavenly assistance.

It's really sad that people need to install filters on their computers in order to filter their own behavior.
That being said, I would like to respond to some of the statements you made:
I don't believe a study has been done as to whether the internet has had an impact on divorce. There were divorces before the internet and there are divorces in homes that do not have internet access.There will always be divorce, it's a fact of life.
Unfortunately, our children have always been exposed to inappropriate material. I remember seeing yeshiva bochurim standing around magazine stands peeking looks at pornographic magazine considerably before the internet was widely available.
Finally, I agree very much with your comment "Bottom line is that we're living in a generation which forces us to have true yirat shamayim even when nobody is watching." -- it is this kind of thinking that should be impressed upon klal, not ridiculous suggestions that try to turn back time.

33

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:45 PM bubii Says:

maybee if he would concentrate more on the molestation tragedy he will save more yiddishe neshumes then with this impractical internet banning.

34

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:51 PM honestbroker Says:

Reply to #6  
YOELYG Says:

Shefela: in try state area we have already 10 wedding halls for chasina takuns that 60% yiden using it already so pls check ur facts before posting noncense, tnx rav shorr for mentioning that, in the holy city kiryas joel we have such thing already

YoelyG Mein tayer kind
I don't know what planet you are on, where 60% of the chasunas comply with the "takunes" but here in the real world, I have yet to go to a chasuna in the last 3 years that followed these "takunes" I suspect that most of us that don't live in the Stamar ghetto, in KY would agree.

35

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:53 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Sadly the elders have taken the lazy road of nonsensical workarounds, if not outright bans, rather than educate and empower. Technology in and of itself is neither bad, nor good, and on this issue the rabbonim are wrong.

36

 Nov 25, 2011 at 04:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
inNY Says:

Rabbi, there are many frum Yiddin including Rabbis who sit in secular courts, can you please address that first.. after that we can worry about the internet.

when botei dinim stop being so corrupt, maybe people will start using them again.

Unfortunately, right now you have a better chance of getting amn honest judge in civil court than in bes din. I speak from experce.

37

 Nov 25, 2011 at 04:10 PM ProminantLawyer Says:

I find to many envolved in entertainment and louidment on the internet. I use it solely for communication, stock income and pictures.

38

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:26 PM MosheM Says:

Shame on all the commenters degrading daas Torah.
As someone who uses the Internet quite a bit I can say that he is right. The solution will be never happen, but attacking him just so you feel good that you aren't transgressors isn't honest.

39

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:30 PM 2ThePoint Says:

How about the rabbis who allow To go to court? Or the ones In court?!

40

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:30 PM Robert Says:

i find it strange reading here how people recommend baning internet use except in a "kosher internet cafe" while they themselves are here online... their logic is above me as i am sure they are not hypocrites..

my teen age children all go to jewish schools and there school work is online from assignments and sending in papers to may other things.. internet is so used that each child has their own laptop. as parents we supervise as best we can, the rest we trust in God

college applications, shopping, communicating with friends etc.. are all done online and texting and with smart phones. one child arranged a weekend at chabad out of town through, internet, cell phones and texting..

i suspect the proverbial 'cat is out of the bag'.

41

 Nov 25, 2011 at 03:38 PM MINBP Says:

If I didn't have internet I wouldn't have been able to hear his speech !!!

42

 Nov 25, 2011 at 10:29 PM SteveW Says:

First, I am a Noahide, so what the Rav has to say does not really apply to me. However, without the Internet in the homes of several Rabbis, I would not have been able to learn. We have Rabbis who are teaching online classes to Noahides who are anxious to learn. The students are from around the world and these classes are helping hundreds of Noahides. In fact, I run a free website that stores recordings of the classes for playback. If these teachers did not have their home internet connections, these classes would not exist. I would not have access to teachers who have dedicated time to teach Noahides, and I would still be struggling to learn what I need to do in life. One must take responsibility for their own actions, and if one wishes to do wrong, they will find a way to do wrong.

43

 Nov 26, 2011 at 06:53 AM ProminantLawyer Says:

I find to many envolved in entertainment and louidment on the internet. I use it solely for communication, stock income and pictures.

44

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
YOELYG Says:

Shefela: in try state area we have already 10 wedding halls for chasina takuns that 60% yiden using it already so pls check ur facts before posting noncense, tnx rav shorr for mentioning that, in the holy city kiryas joel we have such thing already

you're exaggerating, it might be half of that, maybe 5 wedding halls where 30% of yidden are doing it ..hardly a success story...

45

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:19 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

why should he look within, it's us that need to look within. this is our problem not the Rabonim.

stop projecting your issues on others. if you feel the need to look inward, kol h'kovod..maybe you can tell others who also feel the need to tell others to look inwards, such as Rav schorr to worry about themselfs...brocha v' hatzlocha

46

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:27 AM ZAIDY678 Says:

Reply to #13  
Sruly Says:

Firstly, I was zoiche to be in attendance at this massive gathering of yidden from all backgrounds that came to be inspired. They all knew that they were coming to hear about this undeniable plague. As one of the speakers pointed out, this is OUR problem and we should be begging for the Rabonim's help rather than the Rabonim coming to us.

One of the speakers mentioned that the use of technology may be a symptom of emptiness etc. which WE the people must combat by bringing back true meaning to our personal and family lives. However, we must realize that we have a huge problem. A kid told his adult friend that he'll break his phone if it's an iphone because the iphone took away his father - he spends all his time on it instead of doing homework with him, talking to him and giving him attention! Don't you all see this all the time? I can speak for myself, as much as I try to give my kids some undivided attention I find it very difficult when I get interrupted with the buzzing and beeping of my blackberry.

Instead of discussing why solutions are 'unpractical' why don't you write a positive comment? Share with someone your idea how to rid our community from the mageifa.

once again, stop with your judgment..the people with their phones and distractions are only doing so they afford to send their kids to some yeshiva where the tution is threw the roof, and also to donate money to shul that one of these rebbunim are building all for the glory of hashem.......do me a favor. first tell all these rebbunim to do away with these fancy shuls and yeshivas and to stop giving so much kovod to people with money, and then come back and complain about Jews trying to earn a living..

47

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
AriGold Says:

I'm reading through all the comments here and every single one raises good points. However the bottom line is that we do have an issue here. Since the Internet has come to be countless homes have been broken. Children have been exposed to inappropriate content which has robbed them of their innocence. Just take a look at the guardyoureyes website for just a glimpse of this awful malady.
I personally have kept the Internet out of my home. However there is something to be said for those who responsibly install the proper filters on their devices. I'm willing to bet that in the not so distant future it will be impossible to live without Internet access. Children who grow up learning that they cannot surf the Internet without a filter will probably be better off than those who don't have Internet at all.
Bottom line is that we're living in a generation which forces us to have true yirat shamayim even when nobody is watching. Perhaps it's the final nisayon before the arrival of moshiach. Those who care to protect themselves with filters will most certainly be afforded Heavenly assistance.

dear arigold, unfortunately you're very misleading, i grew up in a very frum family, we had no TV, no internet, no video games, but my home, to put it mildly was chaotic at its best..my father and mother were very abusive...the internet doesn't ruin families, people who aren't balanced and selfish ruin families..stop preaching about topics that you are clueless about..

48

 Nov 26, 2011 at 12:48 PM Mayer Alter Says:

How many of the choshive Rebbes, Rabbonim and askonim sitting in that hall have either or both of: an iPhone or Internet access at home? Here in Eretz Yisroel many many people, especially askonim and business people have two phones, a "kosher" one for appearances and a regular line to help make money to answer that call of the Rabbonim to support this or that cause that is "mamash pikuach nefeesh". When will the Rabbonim start to understand that you cannot have your cake and eat it?

49

 Nov 26, 2011 at 02:50 PM ZAIDY678 Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

There is no question the whole internet & technology has changed the world as well our community.....here is a chushiver ruv talmid chuchom saying a devar miser which he thinks is the right thing to say & do ( in which most of all would agree that it is a viable problem & has destroyed many families ) who are we stupid bloggers to comment & judge this ruv if he is right or wrong to suggest it or not..... I am not here saying it would be easy to implement or that myself would follow through......but please lets not mock the rabanim for doing what our rebbes & sages did all through our generations since mount sinai which is giving direction & try to keep klal yisroel getting better.......lets not forget if not our rebbes we would not be here today.....

The problem with our velt today is that all the choshiver lamdanim and rebbunim are very clueless as to how to fix the neshomas of Am Yisroel, so they think that they have to yell berate, admonish everyone to be better etc etc...in Lukuti Halachos of Rebbe Nosson of Breslov, he writes in the first halacha that in order to wake up your neshoma to serve hashem one must constantly search for the good that exists in oneself..The only way for a person to be inspired to want to good is by being able to look at oneself positively..The only feeling i receive after listening to shiurim nowadays is that of extremely negative energy and judgment....negative negative negative......

50

 Nov 26, 2011 at 03:27 PM Berl Says:

Rabbonim can not make takonos on what people do at home behind closed doors. The problem is NOT the internet, the problem is the chinuch people get, they are not taught WHY it is wrong to go to immodest sites. what needs to be done is to get people to understand why they must not go to such sites.
40 years ago when the Lubavitcher Rebbe Z"L initiated broadcasting Farbrengens on TV people criticized him for encouraging TV, he in his great wisdom answered "This is th esame argument that people had against Hashem for creating the sun moonand stars which people later beganm to worship, this is what TV was created for to spread Torah, if people are fools and worship the sun moon and stars or watch inappropriate things on TV, should teh sun moon and stars and TV have not been created?"

51

 Nov 26, 2011 at 05:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Geulah Says:

I absolutely love Rav Avrohom. I have enjoyed his speeches and his erudition for years. However, we already have 24/6 sometimes 24/6.5 coffee klatches for bored out their minds Yidden. We have more distractions than we can count. We need geshmak. Where is the geshmak? Where is the reality check that every boy and girl is not Moshe Rabbeinu and nor should they be? Where is being a mensch a chastizeable offense?

I'm not sure you make any sense (nor does Rav Schorr). As society evolves, its impossible for anyone (frum or frei yidden) to function without internet access-- both at home or work. We use it to pay our bills, make airline and hotel reservations, purchase most products other than food, help the kids with their homework assignments, look for jobs and even to find our beshcert. We can download shiiurim and lectures from all the great gadolim who we might be never zocheh to hear in person. We can watch the davening at the kosel 24x6 and even sit (virtually) at the rebbe's tisch. Rav Schorr's views will be ignored and he will be thrown under the bus of modern society.

P.S. You repeat several times that you need some "geshmak".... What is this "geshmak" you so desparately need.??

52

 Nov 26, 2011 at 06:52 PM still crying Says:

every one is a big preacher untill he finds out his kid is infected with the virus. I personaly "lost" 2 children to this machla (by peronal admission. they managed to by pass the filters(maybe the new ones are better). No one seems to have the problem when they yell "cigaretts cause cancer" ! every smoker will explain why it doesn't efect him while ignoring all those who are dying of lung cancer. Internet can kill!!

53

 Nov 26, 2011 at 06:54 PM Fed up with the.... Says:

Reply to #11  
qazxc Says:

Start acting like leaders and raise the kavod of the rabbonim and roshai yeshivos. Stop with your new kol koreh every month. Stop banning books you haven't read. Stop signing letters and bans you haven't read.

Perhaps then klal yisroel will follow.

Don't talk to me about the dangers of pritzus on the internet until you get the pritzus child molestation out of yeshivos.

Don't talk to me about following da'as Torah until you get the gedolim on the mo'etzes to answer a hazmanah from rav moshe ztz"l from 30 years ago.

Don't lecture to me about frumkeit until you at least start to teach mentchlichkeit in your yeshivos.

Don't talk to me about ahavas yisrael and about having kavod for torah and roshai yeshiva and rabbonim until you go beg mechilla at the kever of reb chaim brisker's grandson ztz"l for making a gelechta out of him just because he was too big-minded to get into all the yeshivasheh shtick and taught gemara to talmidim no matter where they were.

Stop chasing kavod and gelt. Most of all, stop putting on a show.

We need role models for ourselves and our children, not entertainers and dictators.

WOW, I stand in awe of what you said and the way you said it. If only....but sadly it's a dream. And now, alas, we return to the real world. His opening remark was about a talmid who "threatened" his rebbi to break his phone if it was an I-phone because he "lost" his father to it. Ummm, did we ever stop to consider that this I-phone helps the father support his family and pay for this misguided child's tuition?
Oy vey, stop the three ring circus already and address the real issues!!

54

 Nov 26, 2011 at 07:49 PM sherree Says:

Reply to #29  
problems before internet Says:

May I meekly remind the olam that there were problems and possibilities of all kinds long before there was an internet!
There are halochos mentioned even in the Torah about family relations etc, long before internet.

So true, we had problems in every generation, boys bought magazines and snuck into x-rated movie theaters that have been put out of business since videos came on board. So every generation had their issues, it didn't happen because of the internet.

The internet cafe is not a good idea. What do you think will happen? They will have a mechitza down the middle to separate the males from females? Will there be male and female centers? Will it only be for men? It will become a hangout for kids and for men who will leave their wives at home alone till all hours of the night, and men who never used the internet before will find their ways to this center even if it is filtered. They will find a way to sit and chat, shop, or whatever.

One more thing, which puzzles me. Without the internet, there is no way the Agudah could have possibly put this or the past conventions together on such a large scale. There is no way that they don't have internet in their office and there is no way they don't use email as well as other services.

55

 Nov 26, 2011 at 07:57 PM Anonymous Says:

With all due respect, I beg to differ with Rav Schorr. Pronouncements like this are DOA, and valuable time should not have been wasted on this.

Here is an observation, from the trenches. The filth of the internet is dangerous, but it claims its victims from the adult population, not kids and adolescents. I work with kids at risk, OTD, (various other labels), and have yet to meet a single one who left the fold because of the internet. I have also consulted to countless couples and single adults whose internet use became problematic. We're addressing the symptom and neglecting the problem.

Take cell phones in shul. The problem is not the phone. It's the lack of respect for davening. If we learn to regard tefiloh properly, we'll seek to prevent distractions. Meanwhile, it is unfortunately too easy to recognize a shul, with people wearing tallis and tefillin outside talking on cell phones. It is a horrible practice, and creates a role model for children that is damaging.

If we had a lifestyle founded strongly on yiras shomayim, internet would not be an issue. I vote we return to yiras and ahavas Hashem before looking for bans or takanos.

57

 Nov 26, 2011 at 08:23 PM sane Says:

There was also a time when speaking any language other than Yiddish was rejected. There was a time when teaching Jewish girls Chumash, Rashi and Halacha was rejected. There was a time when America was called a treife medinah and immigrating there was rejected. There was a time when studying basic history, math and science was rejected. Many people were turned off by all of these rejections and left Judaism altogether. Rather than rejecting - which never has worked - let's work with it and fortify our youth and ourselves with greater love for Judaism and the fellowship of Klal Yisroel. Let us not have a mechanical adherence to Yiddishkeit, but an emotional adherence rooted in love and spiritual stimulation.

58

 Nov 26, 2011 at 08:29 PM It'll stop the Shidduch Crisis.... Says:

Now Yeshivishe parents of girls over 22 desperate to marry them off young without having to prepay the NASI shadchanus fees can relax. The "good bochurim" headed to Kollel, will only go to the kosher internet cafe (not chas vesholom have an iphone)and the prospective kallahs can go there to accidentally bump into them while inevitably figuring out their names as they order plane tickets to Eretz Yisroel! Go for it!! Do I hear about a collection or a new organization to open these kosher internet cafes around the US (specifically Lakewood) and Canada? Will that be a tax deductible Tzedakah?

59

 Nov 26, 2011 at 09:04 PM ZAIDY678 Says:

Reply to #52  
still crying Says:

every one is a big preacher untill he finds out his kid is infected with the virus. I personaly "lost" 2 children to this machla (by peronal admission. they managed to by pass the filters(maybe the new ones are better). No one seems to have the problem when they yell "cigaretts cause cancer" ! every smoker will explain why it doesn't efect him while ignoring all those who are dying of lung cancer. Internet can kill!!

keep crying, you're in denial if you think that this is what ruined your kids...as someone who has been zocha to many children and grandchildren, i have to tell that you sound very confused and disoriented about what raising children in a balanced harmonious household is about..you sound like a very controlling and angry man, and believe me this had alot more to do with your children "being lost"..stop thinking that you run the world, stop trying to control your kids....Hashem is greater then you...

60

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:03 PM benH Says:

Reply to #5  
Vasserman Says:

Shut down the molesters and you will save far more neshamos than kosher internet centers ever will.

BenH so obsessed with child.molesters that he sees every problem in the world as caused by molesters. therapy is needed instead of spending all one's time blogging about chasing down molesters. and he should get some daas torah to help with his obsession too.

61

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
JamesDean Says:

There have been external influences on us since we were created. For generations, our beliefs had been more attractive than the external influences, many time under the pain of death.

Perhaps the question we should be asking is "why can't we make Torah Yiddishkeit more attractive than an iPhone?"

One thing you all ignore is that while the Rav's suggestion may not be so practical, the dangers he describes are very real and bigger than of us internet users want to admit. I know of wives of very frum men who discovered the most vile filth on the compueter that their husbands were looking at, and the damage to marriage is mostly irreparable. these men they once adored and respected are now degraded in their wives' eyes and the trust is forever gone. if even one marriage gets saved because of the new efforts to control inappropriate use of internet it will be well worth it.

62

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:18 PM internetDestroysMarriages Says:

Reply to #26  
for_real Says:

Again, this is addressing blaming a gun for shooting people! A father who does not give his son attention because of an iphone?? The issue here is the father, not the phone. If a father would rather spend time on his smartphone than with his child, then shame on him. He is deficient as a father! As a father myself (as are most of us), that is a ludicrous statement. I can see an adolescent looking for meaning and blaming it on the phone, but we should know better. There have been terrible parents from the beginning of time. The iphone was invented within the past 6 years.

You blame the father for being more interested in his.phone than his child but you overlook an important aspect about all these gadgets and the internet; they are highly ADDICTIVE and people easily lose control with them. Add to the mix someone with a compulsive side and you have a deadly combination which makes for people spinning way out of control...

63

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Our parents did not need to be hooked up 24/6 to their jobs. Could be because they were able to stop paying their kids bills once they got married? Need i say more?

64

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:20 PM MyDream Says:

My Dream. A choshuve Gadol stands before a huge audience at the Agudah convention, his speech broadcast around the world. He speaks in a soft, heartfelt voice. He says, "My beloved Yidden, every Jewish child is my child and your child. Not someone else's child. Every single Yid, man or woman, who hears of a child being molested, is obligated by the Torah to jump in to save him exactly as if he witnessed this child being murdered. Give a GREAT Geshrei!!!! Don't be concerned with the molester. He doesn't deserve pity! Save the heilige, innocent neshamas! No more coverups for ANYONE - not rebbes, not rich baalei batim, not a choshuve person's relative... The Torah chiyuv is to save the child. Anyone who dreys with intellectually dishonest pilpulim to protect molesters is not representing the heilige Torah. Heed the words of Rav Elyashiv, and go directly to the police, for going to anyone else will result in the molester being free to continue murdering more souls. Any person who does not save a molested child, or prevents others from doing so, will have to answer for this before the Throne of True Judgement after 120.

65

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:24 PM been there Says:

Reply to #59  
ZAIDY678 Says:

keep crying, you're in denial if you think that this is what ruined your kids...as someone who has been zocha to many children and grandchildren, i have to tell that you sound very confused and disoriented about what raising children in a balanced harmonious household is about..you sound like a very controlling and angry man, and believe me this had alot more to do with your children "being lost"..stop thinking that you run the world, stop trying to control your kids....Hashem is greater then you...

pretty nasty diagnosis (from a comment) about some you don't know or never met. as you said you are a "Zayde" with many grandchildren,obviously you don't know what its like to deal with children in "todays" nisyonos. The only correct point I see is saying you were "zoche" to many grandchildren.you are right it was obviously your zechus NOT your chinuch. please stay a nice zaide & knip ur einikels cheeks and buy them chanuka presents.

66

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:36 PM Bernal317 Says:

I guess for the Agudah, internet is really inter-not. I wonder if this rav refuses to accept donations from business people who use the internet. I remember going to pay a shiva call when my husband's rebbe died. I was stunned when I saw how the rebbe's sons and followers were glued to their cellphones at the shiva. Technology isnt the problem, I have a cell phone but know enough to put it away when I go to a house of mourning. I used the internet but I know not to go to undesirable websites. How about taking responsibility for one's actions and teaching one's children to do the same? The rabbonim are all about controlling every aspect of one's life.

67

 Nov 26, 2011 at 11:40 PM Geulah Says:

Reply to #51  
Anonymous Says:

I'm not sure you make any sense (nor does Rav Schorr). As society evolves, its impossible for anyone (frum or frei yidden) to function without internet access-- both at home or work. We use it to pay our bills, make airline and hotel reservations, purchase most products other than food, help the kids with their homework assignments, look for jobs and even to find our beshcert. We can download shiiurim and lectures from all the great gadolim who we might be never zocheh to hear in person. We can watch the davening at the kosel 24x6 and even sit (virtually) at the rebbe's tisch. Rav Schorr's views will be ignored and he will be thrown under the bus of modern society.

P.S. You repeat several times that you need some "geshmak".... What is this "geshmak" you so desparately need.??

Having the convenience and benefitting from convenience doesn't automatically kosher the convenience. I have the internet at home and at work, unfiltered in both cases. I know, from the boredom of being unemployed, what fun the internet can be. If you thing that Rav Schorr or anyone else has a complaint about the internet simply regarding it's existence then this issue is simply an inconvenient digression in the neatness of the world. World isn't so neat though. Geshmak is defined has being tasty, but we're not talking about food. It's about having a fulfillment in what you're doing. It's abhorrent for people to be so disconnected from davening, learning etc. that they have to tune into their Blackberry every two seconds. Is everyone really negotiating deals? Is business going so well that at 6:30 a.m. you have an e-mail from a partner? No, some idiot is sending you a picture from Israel or a joke from England. I've had fellow daveners stop in the middle of shmoneh esrai to look at the Blackberry so that they can see the latest RSS feed. What for? A good piece of loshon horah or a shiur? The majority of your examples are good for 1% of your waking hours.

68

 Nov 27, 2011 at 04:50 AM ZAIDY678 Says:

Reply to #65  
been there Says:

pretty nasty diagnosis (from a comment) about some you don't know or never met. as you said you are a "Zayde" with many grandchildren,obviously you don't know what its like to deal with children in "todays" nisyonos. The only correct point I see is saying you were "zoche" to many grandchildren.you are right it was obviously your zechus NOT your chinuch. please stay a nice zaide & knip ur einikels cheeks and buy them chanuka presents.

with all due respect "mr been there": sorry if you felt offended, however i wholeheartedly believe that parents today are very judgmental and controlling of their children. Parents don't respect their children they way they should, which leads kids to search elsewhere to be admired and respected. Although I do have a number of grandchildren, I have also have 2 kids who have finished high school in the past 3 years, so please don't lecture me about not understanding "todays" nisyonis. The reason why i might appear to be nasty is because, frankly I've seen so many parents push their kids so much to be successful in yeshiva, to be the next "Godol" etc, that they completely negate the child's aspirations and enthusiasm to just appreciate who they are. And then its these wonderful parents who we read about in these frum magazines,who are crying and saying "oy ribono shel olom where did we go wrong".and this phenomenon keeps on repeating itself, parents simply don't get it, LET YOU KIDS LOVE THEMSELVES..In my house Motzei Shabbos I would have to kick my kids out of the house, and tell them, go have fun. My kids felt appreciated by me and wife and didn't feel the need to run anywhere.

69

 Nov 27, 2011 at 04:56 AM ZAIDY678 Says:

Reply to #65  
been there Says:

pretty nasty diagnosis (from a comment) about some you don't know or never met. as you said you are a "Zayde" with many grandchildren,obviously you don't know what its like to deal with children in "todays" nisyonos. The only correct point I see is saying you were "zoche" to many grandchildren.you are right it was obviously your zechus NOT your chinuch. please stay a nice zaide & knip ur einikels cheeks and buy them chanuka presents.

BTW..you're right about one thing..nothing is in my zechos and you're a 100% right to say that i was "zoche"..everything is a matunah from hashem, which is precisely my chinuch of my children. to me they were always looked upon as gifts, and they knew that this is how i felt about them, which is why they were satisfied children...

70

 Nov 27, 2011 at 06:05 AM wondering Says:

Reply to #65  
been there Says:

pretty nasty diagnosis (from a comment) about some you don't know or never met. as you said you are a "Zayde" with many grandchildren,obviously you don't know what its like to deal with children in "todays" nisyonos. The only correct point I see is saying you were "zoche" to many grandchildren.you are right it was obviously your zechus NOT your chinuch. please stay a nice zaide & knip ur einikels cheeks and buy them chanuka presents.

While I disagree with the tone and implications of #59's comment, there is one thing you must remember. Some percentage of children will ultimately go off the derech (I assume/hope that is what you meant versus the other chas veshalom meaning of the phrase) whether for the short or the long term. Are you sure that in another time and place they would not have found hope and especially excitement among the "tzedukim" or the "reformers" or any of the other myriad of negative outside influences that many posters have pointed out existed since the beginning of time? Are you sure that if they were that prone to addiction they may not have found drugs or alcohol without the internet? I personally know of multiple children "lost" to wonderful, chashuve families before the internet even existed. My father a"h gave advice on the subject and many "came back" because of this. His way: Keep the channels of communication open so the children do not feel hated or abandoned, and continue to show love and affection and to daven and maybe some day they will come back to you too. The internet is only a tool. There are many others. Focus on the solution not the (seeming) cause

71

 Nov 27, 2011 at 06:59 AM Shaul in Monsey Says:

To post 11, a genius among men. Great post.

72

 Nov 27, 2011 at 10:57 AM shredready Says:

since the beginning of time religious leaders have condemned new technologies.

nothing new

even more so, technologies that can give information to the masses. it raises to many question that they have no answer to, or gives information to the masses that at one time only the leaders had.

nothing new hear just history repeating itself

73

 Nov 27, 2011 at 02:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #72  
shredready Says:

since the beginning of time religious leaders have condemned new technologies.

nothing new

even more so, technologies that can give information to the masses. it raises to many question that they have no answer to, or gives information to the masses that at one time only the leaders had.

nothing new hear just history repeating itself

You're misguided once again. These technologies carry many negatives. The problem that our leaders must face is how to cope with this. To eliminate it is both impossible, and ill conceived. To embrace it without control is inviting trouble, as many can testify. The problem is not "information" in totality, because much information is great, positive, useful, and even necessary. But some is actually damaging. I may disagree with the proposal by Rav Schorr, but he is at least recognizing that this is a dilemma. Your comment does not reflect any recognition of that dilemma, and that is either blindness or foolishness.

This is not selfish fear. It is an existential fear, and it is realistic. So how do you propose to resolve this issue?

74

 Nov 27, 2011 at 10:42 PM me Says:

Nebech Losers. Technology is here and it's here to stay, now deal with it

75

 Nov 28, 2011 at 01:55 PM jd123 Says:

Reply to #21  
ZehHu Says:

Interesting to note, this week is also the Chabad shluchim conference.. they don't have such type of speakers on podium... the Kinus is uplifting, spiritual. I find Rabbi Schorr's speech very troubling, extremely negative, zero uplifting.

I have never seen a comment that is as on the mark as this one. Chabad has their own problems when it comes to interacting with the secular world ( and they are certainly more exposed to it than the Agudah types). However they understand that to sit and scream about it and to keep creating more rules and strictures doesn't work to inspire the next generation. The reason so many young Chabad men and women are still inspired (even in today's day and age of materialism and technology) to devote their lives to shlichus is that they are given inspiration to live with a mission and purpose. One of the ways this is done is through the conference.

Rabbi Schorr however, seems to think that Gerrer sharpness will still work effectively in today's day and age.Basically, we've come to a conflict between adopting a public approach of chizuk (encouragement and positive reinforcement) versus rebuke. And deep down we all know who will be the passionate and vibrant ones at the end.....

76

 Nov 28, 2011 at 02:12 PM jd123 Says:

Reply to #21  
ZehHu Says:

Interesting to note, this week is also the Chabad shluchim conference.. they don't have such type of speakers on podium... the Kinus is uplifting, spiritual. I find Rabbi Schorr's speech very troubling, extremely negative, zero uplifting.

#21 - I have never seen a comment as on the mark as yours below.

" Interesting to note, this week is also the Chabad shluchim conference.. they don't have such type of speakers on podium..The Kinus is uplifting, spiritual."

Chabad has their own problems on how they interact with the secular world (due to their outreach efforts they are avid users of internet, their young people spend much unsupervised time in far away secular cities, and there are also public questions over their tznius practices). However, to their credit, leadership does not sit and scream and create new rules and strictures. They understand that to inspire a new generation of great Jewish people you need to speak to their hearts. The reason so many young men and women of Chabad volunteer for shlichus, in today's day and age of materialism and technology, is because they are inspired by by a mission and live with a purpose.

Rabbi Schorr thinks that he can recreate the Ger of old, with the harsh truth alone serving as a moral guide, and the creation of unsympathetic, new societal rules serving to create change.

We all know which method will create a movement that is alive and vibrant at the end....

77

 Nov 29, 2011 at 01:36 PM MidwesternGuy Says:

Reply to #42  
SteveW Says:

First, I am a Noahide, so what the Rav has to say does not really apply to me. However, without the Internet in the homes of several Rabbis, I would not have been able to learn. We have Rabbis who are teaching online classes to Noahides who are anxious to learn. The students are from around the world and these classes are helping hundreds of Noahides. In fact, I run a free website that stores recordings of the classes for playback. If these teachers did not have their home internet connections, these classes would not exist. I would not have access to teachers who have dedicated time to teach Noahides, and I would still be struggling to learn what I need to do in life. One must take responsibility for their own actions, and if one wishes to do wrong, they will find a way to do wrong.

I have to ask: Are you related to Sherry?

78

 Nov 29, 2011 at 06:42 PM JackL Says:

Reply to #32  
A Says:

It's really sad that people need to install filters on their computers in order to filter their own behavior.
That being said, I would like to respond to some of the statements you made:
I don't believe a study has been done as to whether the internet has had an impact on divorce. There were divorces before the internet and there are divorces in homes that do not have internet access.There will always be divorce, it's a fact of life.
Unfortunately, our children have always been exposed to inappropriate material. I remember seeing yeshiva bochurim standing around magazine stands peeking looks at pornographic magazine considerably before the internet was widely available.
Finally, I agree very much with your comment "Bottom line is that we're living in a generation which forces us to have true yirat shamayim even when nobody is watching." -- it is this kind of thinking that should be impressed upon klal, not ridiculous suggestions that try to turn back time.

A Says: Says:
“ It's really sad that people need to install filters on their computers in order to filter their own behavior.
I completely disagree with A. Look at GYE website and you will find upstanding, ehrliche people that struggle with the dangers of the internet. There is even a Maggid Shiur on the site. Would you say that this person is 'sad'? Men are created with taavos and putting a filter on a computer is the smartest way to deal with this. That is what harchakos are for. They are for the mainstream public, not just the 'sad' people. The greater a person is, the greater the YH. If you have internet- there are dangers that are one click away. Having a filter reduces those risks. The people that do not have a filter are really sad.
Be careful when making judgments of fellow Jews.

79

 Nov 29, 2011 at 10:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #78  
JackL Says:

A Says: Says:
“ It's really sad that people need to install filters on their computers in order to filter their own behavior.
I completely disagree with A. Look at GYE website and you will find upstanding, ehrliche people that struggle with the dangers of the internet. There is even a Maggid Shiur on the site. Would you say that this person is 'sad'? Men are created with taavos and putting a filter on a computer is the smartest way to deal with this. That is what harchakos are for. They are for the mainstream public, not just the 'sad' people. The greater a person is, the greater the YH. If you have internet- there are dangers that are one click away. Having a filter reduces those risks. The people that do not have a filter are really sad.
Be careful when making judgments of fellow Jews.

I note that not having filters doesn't seem to drive the secular world so crazy: I daresay that the incidence of pedophilia and child molesting is greater in yeshivas and frum camps than in secular equivalents.

And when it happens in the secular world, there is outrage, and arrests. In the frum community, the molesters are protected for years for fear of bad publicity.

80

 Dec 05, 2011 at 04:56 PM smerel Says:

Reply to #34  
honestbroker Says:

YoelyG Mein tayer kind
I don't know what planet you are on, where 60% of the chasunas comply with the "takunes" but here in the real world, I have yet to go to a chasuna in the last 3 years that followed these "takunes" I suspect that most of us that don't live in the Stamar ghetto, in KY would agree.

#34 of course in your MO crowd you yet have to see a takanah wedding. they wont make one to save thier lives. In our circles, you know the gettho circles, every 2nd wedding is

81

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