Jerusalem – In an explosive radio interview today on Radio Kol Bramah, the son of Israel’s Chief Rabbi, had harsh words for those who insists that men and women must be separated on busses.
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Rabbi Avraham Yosef, Rov of Holon, and the son of Rav Ovadia Yosef, did not mince words when radio host Moti Lavi recounted the story of a Chareidi man who was sitting in the front seat of a bus, in an area designated for the handicapped, and angrily rebuked a blind woman who sat down next to him, telling her she needed to move to the back of the bus, the area where women are seated on Mehadrin bus lines.
“This is idiocy,” said R’ Yosef. “This is chutzpah, a lack of understanding. The ways of the Torah are pleasant and peaceful. This is idiocy. This does not stem from yiras shomayim. Pirkei Avos criticizes one who tries to overdo his yiras shomayim and we know what happened to Shaul Hamelech when he added additional words onto the directives of Shmuel Hanavi.
There is no prohibition on sitting next to a strange woman. Looking at her? Yes. Smelling her perfume? Yes. But sitting next to her? Take off your glasses, don’t look.”
While R’ Yosef did not want to engage in a lengthy discourse on the subject of Mehadrin buses, he did say that there are customs that have been introduced in the last generation that he suspects were done without first seeking the counsel of Daas Torah and that by attempting to enforce this additional level of separation the Chareidi community is bringing upon itself unnecessary negative publicity.
To listen to the radio interview posted at Kikar
Smelling her perfume, ossur, so of course she has to sit in the back!!!
To take the actions of one lunatic & use it to smear an entire segment of pious people, is also against the Torah.
Question:
Why is there no outrage against the very popular Egged # 400 (Jerusalem – Bnei Brak) which also has separate seating (segregated…) ?
Answer:
This route is not used by the chareidim of Meah Shearim….
Its mostly used by the bnei torah of Bnei Brak…. & it not the fashion to bash them…. Not yet.
This is the epitome of hypocrisy…..
Finally. Now will we read/hear from many questioning his credentials?
Finally a voice of reason! From women with shawls to protesting buses it has become truly ridiculous.
The deepest and most lasting increase in religious observance comes not from being forced into it, but when there is an inner transformation. When attempt to force their strictness on a population that wants no part of it, they lessen the likelihood of the people that they negatively influence returning to Jewish observance. Far from upholding and defending the law, it could be argued that hateful and confrontive behavior is “moises u mediakh” , sinning and causing others to sin. We need tokeep this in mind.
While it may not be ossur, as frum people we live beyond the basic halacha.
Its true we can’t be demeaning to women, however why can’t we be considerate of a large segment of the ridership that seek to impose a chumra. Separation of men and women is not meant to be demeaning at all, and common courtesy is to be sensitive to those around us.
For a womam to be instigating by intentionally sitting up front, she is being demeaning to many others.
We are looking at this with tunnel vision, and need to look at this in overall context.
…and while we read, the leftie secular activists are purchasing perfume for the next desegregation showdown.
This problem can be solved, as it has been in certain Asian countries. There, whole train cars are reserved exclusively for women, to prevent incidents. Therefore, an entire bus can be reserved only for women, where they will be free to sit in the front, in the middle or in the back; and, there would be separate buses for men only. It is the only sensible, and humane way to solve this problem!
Imposing chumros on others in one area of halachah often involves a kula in another area, such as kavod habriyos, v’ahavta l’reiyacha kamochais, etc. What if the woman being asked to move is a widow? To embarass her in this way (and being asked to move is always embarrassing) probably violates the issur D’ ORAISA of lo s’anun yasom v’almanah (oppressing orphans and widows).
Let’s remember the famous story of R’ Yisrael Salanter who used only the minimum amount of water for netilas yadayim (despite the hidur of using a lot of water) because he did not want to impose an extra burden on the maid who shlepped the water.
Recently, some Poskim ruled that on airplanes, people should daven in their seats and not gather to make a minyan because that would inconvenience other passengers.
It’s been suggested (usually, sarcastically) over and over again that men should sit in the back. This is actually a practical idea. They won’t have to walk through the women’s section because they can enter and exit through the back doors. It’s true that they would now sit facing the women. But the women would be some distance away, so the men can just look down, read a sefer, or close their eyes (which is what they should be doing anyway, rather than inconveniencing others for the sake of their chumros).
for a frum Jew to offer anything but help and assistance to a blind Jewish women is not Jewish behavior, these impulses to harm women stem soley from the sitra achra the perpatrators need to do teshuva and examine themselves for why they use G-ds Torah to justify their sick impulses.
To #21
Is that all you could muster ?
To nitpick on the exact definition of a word?
Why don’t you answer the charge ?
It is clear that the posters on this site choose only to bash the Meah Shearim type chereidim , & when the same so called segregation goes on somewhere else , as on the # 400 bus, its totally ignored.
That my friend, IS hypocrisy !!
Why not have the buses for women only and have the men walk?
Maybe they can use the excercise.
Older men can group together into communal taxis…
problem solved
#7
More than halacha huh? Tell me something. How much money have you taken from the govt? It’s a halacha mfuresh in the Yoreh Deah that you’re not allowed to benefit from goyishe tzeddakah…but I see every chassidishe yingerman taking food stamps and section 8, so don’t give me that garbage! You guys do whatever you want to do, and it’s a sign of a major problem that you have this need to seperate women more than the halachos! I think there’s a direct correlation between this and the child abuse in the chareidi world. They’re sick! They need help immediately!
Sad to say, those countries that have separate buses for men and women so there won’t be any incidents, THIS IS NOT A KAVOD!! It means people aren’t behaving properly. Mexico also has separate buses, but that is not something to aspire to. A family should be able to travel someplace together. Not everyone has a car – it is a hardship to travel separately.
Rav Yosef is saying that it is not halachikly necessary. Why can’t we listen to mainstream reason?
#27 , #29 and #36
I agree with the three of you.
Whatever the reasoning is, it certainly appears to be degrading to women even if they claim that that is not their intention.
Asking people to sit in back of the bus has degrading connotations. Period. End of story.
I’m speaking from experience as a Chassidish women who works with non-Jews and had a heck of a job trying to explain that Judaism doesn’t degrade women, but it’s just a few loonies that do. Sigh…..still trying to convince them.
Thank you loonies for degrading me and my beautiful religion in the eyes of my colleagues.
What about sitting next to a woman and having to lean against her or rub against her as is the case when the bus is full and all seats are occupied, is that ok too? Im sure he will admit it isn’t. So, not alowed to lean on her, not allowed to look at her, not allowed to smell her perfume BUT allowed to sit next to her without the glasses. Mr/rabbi yosef, are you a hipocrit or just plain stupid ?????
To the entire Yosef family. You are the epitomy of hipocrisy. This is what happens when rabbis get involved in politics and parties. Now you have a problem speaking the true daas torah when its not politically correct.
Guess what. The satmar rebbe was right after all. And u rabbi ovadya and sons are case in point.
#48 ,
You’re an idiot.
Mvazeh talmid chacham ein lo chelek b’olam haba.
First of all, there’s a difference between sitting next to a woman and rubbing against her, and second of all, that kind of rubbing against a woman isn’t prohibited because it’s not derech chibbah and you’re not mchavein!
Go back to beis medrash and don’t let me see you again until you know how to learn!
When Rav Mordechai Eliahu zatzal was a dayan in BeerSheva he regularly took the bus from Yerushalayim. Once a woman sat next to him and he buried his face in his gemara but said nothing. Finally she tapped him on the shoulder and said “Mordechai, why aren’t you speaking to me?” She was his wife.
The worst public transportation experience of my life was when my husband and I took the train in Frankfurt, Germany. We are both disabled. There were a bunch of teenagers on the train when we boarded and not even one of them offered a seat to an elderly, disabled person!
There is absolutely no reason that these people’s chumras should inconvenience anyone in any way. Besides the fact that multiple Gedolim have come out against Mehadrin buses (the fliers all over Me’ah She’arim claiming to be quoting R’ Elyashiv are probably bogus, he’s quoted differently every day), these Chareidim’s belief that women should sit in the back of the bus has no more backing to it than a secular woman’s belief that she can sit wherever she wants, and freedom of religion (which I know is lacking in Israel, but in principle it shouldn’t be) should dictate that she can choose not to be tied down by made-up chumras. And in fact, her opinion should take precedence, because it’s based on the socially logical principle of freedom, as opposed to a made-up chumra based on a made-up Gemara based on a book written by some guys a few thousand years ago that shouldn’t affect anyone any more than Moby Dick does (as in, a nice piece of fiction).
#56 ,
That type of ‘accidental smelling’ isn’t an issue in halacha.
Look, if it bothers you, then walk!
Just make sure that you aren’t mvazeh a talmid chacham. You’ll get a big cosmic smackdown!