Jerusalem- Police arrested a 45-year-old haredi man who yelled “whore!” at a female soldier on an Egged bus, the latest in a series of incidents of discrimination against women ultra-Orthodox areas. According to the police, the solider was sitting towards the front of Bus Line 49, which runs from Neve Yaakov through Ramat Eshkol towards the haredi Sanhedria neighborhood.
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A man in haredi dress asked the soldier to move to the back of the bus, and called her a whore. The soldier reportedly refused to move, and when the man continued to harass her to force her to move to the back of the bus, the bus driver called the police. The man was arrested and removed from the bus, which continued on its route. The man will come before the court on Thursday when police will ask for an extension of his detainment until the end of their investigation.
Because it serves primarily religious neighborhoods, the bus in one of the lines which is considered “de facto mehadrin” meaning men sit in the front and women sit in the back.
If this man really had a problem spending so much time and focus on a woman because “women are obviously the root of all evil in men” then why is he spending so much time harassing her? It seems he should just move past her without acknowledging her and find himself another seat and stare at his palms.
i’m just curious, IF it really is a breach of tznius for men and women to sit together on a bus, wouldn’t it make more sense for the women to sit in the front instead of walking through the men to get to the back? how tznius are these people really, sounds like they just want the front spot to check out all the women coming on…or do they make them go on the bus from the back as well????
its sad it has come to this
on some level i feel i should say shechyianu
the modifiers in this sentence highlight the core issues of this problem!
“Because it serves **primarily ** religious neighborhoods, the bus in one of the lines which is considered **de facto ** mehadrin” meaning men sit in the front and women sit in the back.”
1) If the bus serves *only* the religious neighborhoods, then maybe you might be able to support an argument to make it mehadrin. BUT obviously other neighborhoods are served so how can you force those who aren’t from your neighborhood to move to the back?
2) de facto mehadrin means that the bus driver won’t enforce the separation of genders, so if anyone is going to do it, it’ll be the mentally unstable hooligans who have no filter between their mind and their mouth.
3) I once heard a rav speak true wisdom when he said that diarrhea of the mouth is indicative of constipation of the mind — only those who can’t think, or can’t control their speech, will create these disturbances….
Where are the “Gedolim” of our generation? Why are they letting this continue unabated? Perhaps they are in agreement with these reshaim and see no need to intervene. We have not heard any forceful words from any of them, unless they have been filtered by their handlers and we are not getting the truth.
Doesn’t this make you all sick to your stomach?
it’s interesting how in the nyc subways and buses there are labels on the front seats; they should be given to the elderly or handicapped. if there be an elderly or handicapped woman getting on a ‘mehadrin’ bus, what would be the protocol? pregnant women need the seat in the front too, not a young male to watch the road or whatever….
This would be a much smaller issue if the women sat in FRONT of the bus. Then it’s clear that it’s not a derogatory thing for women.
Why should men sit in front?
You want a separation let it be seperate but let women be in front
The tide is clearly turning on the fanatics. Your days of doing what you like are over.
is it a crime in israel to call someone a whore? I thought its a free country.
“Hate knows no boundaries”.
We all, must learn, to truly respect every Human Being, Yid or Non-Yid, born to Yid or born to a Non-Yid.
Only then we can hope that there will be love and respect amongst chareidim and families.
The picture claims a protest against the charedim had 10,000 participants.. what a big joke! there were hardly 200 secular and “religious” rioters all in all, yelling and cursing, and didn’t forget to throw eggs in charedi direction, but as much as they tried to provocate the charedim, they remained calm, and there were not to many charedim in sight at all.. what a flop!
I’m just curious. Where was this soldier coming from and where was she headed on this Mehadrin bus?
Men sit in front, dummy, because halachically men should not stand, sit, walk, behind women. Many posters seem to have a problem with halacha. You seem to have a problem with “front.” Newsflash: If you prefer to separate genders then somebody’s gotta sit in the front, and if you’re separating genders because you wanna be “mehadrin,” you might as well be mehadrin all the way which is women behind men. It’s too bad that the back is uncomfortable. There’s no halacha that says “women behind men except when it’s uncomfortable.” A healthy man and healthy woman are equal under halacha.
Imagine someone walking up to a soldier in any other country, insulting them to their face, and not thinking that they are going to walk away with a broken nose and missing a few teeth!
The Charedim, more than any one else, know that this is a Jewish army. Otherwise they would never have a havva amina to insult a soldier and think they won’t be assaulted in response.
how can u arrest & detain someone for calling someone else a whore??
All I can say is, the Haredi men are behaving no different than the extremist muslim men. We live in the 21st century and we’re still fighting for women’s rights? Shame on the Haredi community, shame on their Rebbi’s for allowing this situation to continue and shame on the mothers who bring their young son’s up to believe this way.
On many of these bus lines, the woman do go on from the back door and either send a young child to pay the fare and/or they have these “hole punchers” attached to one of the seats so they can punch their cards….
On the buses that women do go on from the front, they have to sqeeze their way through the men along with their children and plenty of bags. Not very convienient for them AT ALL, besides the men probably enjoy every minute of all the squeezing. Then they go and yell should a woman dare sit down in the front.
Oh and by the way, there’s always that “ify” situation when one doesnt know exacly where the cut off area is, which happened to me and I was told to get up. There wasn’t an extra seat anywhere else and i was sure that i WAS sitting in the woman’s section. I DID NOT MOVE, just kept looking out the window and ignoring those men. I wasn’t going to stand the 45 minute bus ride. I got away with it only bec that seat was in a “questionable” area. But you can be sure, I certainly felt degraded and humiliated, like i was commiting such a horrible crime.
I live in an area that have all buses divided men from women, it never occurred to me that the women sitting in the back is some sort of embarrassment to the women, it’s nowhere similar to the Rosa Park situation where blacks were told to sit in the back with derogatory. If there would be some way that you can put a fare collector at the back door, and a curtain i as a man would have no problem to sit in the back. But if there are men that think that women have to sit in the back because they are second class citizens they have a much bigger problem than this.
I am not fan of this nonsense, but it seems to me that the Charedim into this should advocate for side to side to separation. As in men on the right, women on the left, or vice versa. That wouldn’t have the bad vibes of ordering people to the back. Unless, of course, they want the women davka in back, to, you know, deliver a message.
(Wouldn’t surprise me..)
That would alleviate a lot of tension. The downside though is that we normal people would be accomodating this mishegas.
Funny thing is while I’m traveling with the Metro North trains, if I’m sitting in one of the rows first, not a single man or woman will come in sit next to me, beard, hat, and all. And don’t even dare mention that I stink, it happens in the morning right out of shower fresh clothing. My suggestion to the frum people in ISRAEL go ahead sit next to the women, they will leave sooner rather than later, they can’t stand you.
I’m surprised that she didn’t punch him. I think a U.S. servicewoman would have done so if anyone had spoken to her in that way.
I have no problem with the segregartion but let the men go through the back door and sit in the back. That would solve the problem since all the men are looking at the floor and wont see the women at the fron t of the bus, right?
What happened to free speech ?
I used to take the 49 aleph (mehadrin) weekly from Sandhedria to Neve Yaakov for a shiur. There were times when I needed to talk to the driver, purchase something, or for whatever reason needed to get on in the front, but no, a 15 year old Israeli boy thought it was within his place to tell me, a married lady with a snood with a son his age where to go and where to sit. So TELL ME PLEASE how forcing me to a) get on in the BACK of the bus, b) then walking THROUGH THE MEN to the front of the bus so I can conduct my business with the driver, and then c) walking back to “where I belong in the back” is so wonderfully tznius?? If it’s the worst thing EVER to even SEE a woman you would think I shouldn’t be forced to walk up and down the aisle TWICE, no? And the biggest issue, of course, is the SHEER CHUTZPAH of boys ordering women, some even 80 year old grandmothers, around. We live in an olam hafuch – where an avierah is perceived as a mitzva and vice versa. We certainly live in the dor mashiach because CHUTZPAH YASGEE. If my son behaved this way I will have failed as a mother.
Maybe Netanyahu can divide the bus lines-one for haredim, one for secular, like he wnats to divide Beit Shemesh.
It is a shame that our g’dolim have not heard or read what has been said in the media. Maybe they would have DONE something?? ANYTHING!!!
Draft him to the army.
umm…not every soldier risks her life, especially female soldiers who primarily do office duties.
It is first and foremost the responsibility of the RABBINIC LEADERSHIP to forcefully and explicitly denounce this Colossal Chilul Hashem. It is not enough for them to denounce it because it is a chilul Hashem, but to denounce it because the whole hashkafa of Extreme Tznius and imposing anything on another person, is just as treif as eating Chazir and this approach to Yiddishkeit is against Halacha on all levels. The Rabbonim and specifically the Gedolim and we all know who they are, need to come out and say meforash that
1. There is no issur to sit next to a woman on a bus
2. It is Assur to ask women to move to the back of the bus
3. It is Assur to put up signs asking women to only walk on certain sides of a street
4. It is Assur to spit on another human being and Ain Lo Chelek Lolam Haba to one who does so
5. It is Assur to call another Jew a “Nazi” and Ain Lo Chelek Lolam Haba to one who does so
6. It is ossur to call a women any derogatory name such as “Zona”, “Shiksa”, “Prutza”, and So on and one who does so Ain Lo Chelek L’olam Haba regardless of how the woman is dressed.
7. It is Assur to assault or harrass another human being including shouting at someone.
As someone that follows the israeli media let me try to to cut thru the fog of war (against the orthodox).
We are in the midst of an anti jewish (Belief) incitment campagin
painful to see how most commentators are jumping to take the word of a secular woman against a word of a religious man. He claims he asked her politely if she would’t mind going in the back, she immediately called police, according to “Kol chai” radio, eyewitnesses told police the story is not true and she’s lying, they ignored all witnesses, and took her word against all witnesses.
As someone that follows the israeli media let me try to to cut thru the fog of war (against the orthodox).
We are in the midst of an anti jewish (Belief) incitment campagin the like’s we hadn’t seen since the 1930’s.
Their mode of operation is: take 5% truth add the rest and let the hate continue!!.
In this particular case there are numerous witness that claim that this women sat down smack in middle of a group of men and that someone asked her politely to change seats that’s all!
I would rather believe my fellow frum jews that a bunch of Anti anti orthodox/settler/chreidi/Torah reporters bent on slandering the frum jews in front of the whole world!!!
Does anybody know that in the last day their were over 5 incidents where chreidi kids and adults were spat on and even hit by “peace loving” seculars? You didn’t hear about it? I guess the Shtrumer (sorry Ynet) didn’t have room in the paper to include it.
So Please fellow readers don’t jump on the hate wagon untill you verify every story.
guess the soldier was used to being in the front–front lines that is ; protecting the borders etc. concerned about this guys safety….
Aside from the fact that the ‘SOLDIER” male or female protects this fool – the bigger chillul hashem is that this anti Haredi incident and others like are coming into the mass media – in this world of Anti-Semitism it is not a good thing.
And if the individual did not want to sit with the woman – GET OFF THE BUS.
(By the way you won’t print this beciase you never print modern religious jews viewpoints anyway.)
Chareidi bashing is going too far reading some comments just makes your stomach turn.this was a mehadrin bus wherever there is a mehadrin bus route there are regular busses in front or behind within a few minutes apart.this female boarded the bus to provoke if she did not know she was told by the chareidy then she was asked to move to the back and refused she got what she was looking.Next they will go to chareidy weddings sit at the men’s section start dancing call the leftist media and the chareidy bashers from vin and yell women are mistreated and discriminated because she was asked to go to the ladies section.
2 big Questions
1st Why did she purposely sit in front when she knows it is a mehadrin line
Was she sent to cause trouble and by who.
2nd. Did he call her a whore
3rd Did it actually happen.
If it was an avreich; I do not believe he called her a whore or spat on her
If he was 15-21 years olds I would believe it could happen. And I said could not did
Here’s a novel idea, if you don’t like who is on the bus, DON’T USE THE BUS! Get a car, or use a taxi, or walk, or start your own darned bus service! Access to busing is not some divinely given right. Either respect the use and go along, and get off!
Anybody read the full article on ynet news? Let me fill you in a little. The media reports that the father of the soldier stated his daughter called him up crying after being called a shiksa. No, you read it correct “soldier cries to father for being called a shiksa” is what the artcile should have read. Those headlines would not make good news for the secularist media, would it? Anyone smell a rat here?
Let me be more specific. A secularist zionist soldier with an agenda against charedim uses her wile to purposely instigate a charedi man (who had misplaced hashkofas written all over his face) in order to get media coverage. The lioness got her prey and the secularist media sponsored ticker-tape parade. I don’t condone verbal or physical violence, I just like to call a spade a spade.
What a shame that the so called (modern) Orthodox have such hate to their fellow jews. What about the issur of Lo sisnah es achicho bilvovecho and Loshen Horah, where are the so called rabonim in the modern orthodox community that always speak up on the sins of the chareidim why arn’t they protesting against such a chilul hashem done by their people.
no wonder the chareidim are more successful with chinuch of their children and 99% of our gedolim come from the chareidy community.
It’s time for the modern orthodox community to start respecting therights of the orthodox and stop bashing them.
Sorry the chareidy gedolim are busy learning the torah yomom volailoh and have no time but to pasken what they see written in it.
Does anyone suspect that all this gender segregation, makes men hyper-aware about women’s sexuality? I keep hearing about ‘healthy men and women’ not being able to resist immoral thoughts (i.e. Sexual fantasizing). I am someone that doesn’t live in a gender separated environment and I am perfectly capable of keeping my thoughts out of the gutter. Sexual thoughts (a.k.a. Hirhurim) are a part of life, whether you live in Beit Shemesh or not. You are meant to learn to manage them and rise above this natural urge but not at the expense of the dignity of others.
The individual reflects his parents’ upbringing and reinforces the negative behavior of certain religious persons. It is sad that this passes for yiras shomayim