Jerusalem - Rabbi Melamed: Mehadrin Busses Undermine Family Structure |
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News Source: VIN News Staff
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Rabbi Eliezer MelamedJerusalem - In a weekly column to be published tomorrow in the Israeli newspaper Basheva, a well known halachic authority stated the there is no basis for enforcing segregation between men and women on busses. According to a report 
in Haaretz.
Rabbi Eliezer Melamed, dean of Yeshiva Har Bracha, located in Lev Hashomron, and the prominent author of the popular Peninei Halacha series, came out strongly about the importance of distinguishing between halacha and chumra.
“There are very clear boundaries in halacha distinguishing between what is required and what is optional. When you try to obligate people to follow a custom that is laudatory but not actual halacha, you destroy the foundations of Torah and halacha.”
According to Rabbi Melamed, enforcing separation between men and women on busses is detrimental to the family structure as men are unable to sit with their wives, fathers are unable to sit with their daughters and mothers are unable to sit with their sons. While Rabbi Melamed is in favor of segregation in public venues, he considers a bus to be a completely different circumstance.
“It is very important not to add additional stringencies when it comes to matters of tznius,” warned Rabbi Melamed.
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Read Comments (44) — Post Yours »
1
Dec 28, 2011 at 05:06 PM Yossi Says:Report as Inappropriate
Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it...Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way.....
2
Dec 28, 2011 at 04:24 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Ok, a baby step in the right direction.
3
Dec 28, 2011 at 04:48 PM CampRunamok Says:Report as Inappropriate
Prishas Derekh Eretz was one of the harms afflicted upon B'nei Yisrael by the Mitzrim.
4
Dec 28, 2011 at 05:19 PM azisvort Says:Report as Inappropriate
come on, i'm sorry but nothing personal,what he said made no sense.
first of all many frum people don't want to sit or be pushed with ladies, so give them the full respect to keep their kosher busses in their neighborhood.
secondly, can't a mother separate from her 11 year old son for a small bus ride?
5
Dec 28, 2011 at 05:45 PM Posek hador? Says:Report as Inappropriate
Is everybody obligated to listen to the his psak? Absolutely not! Especially when there are so many well renowned gedolim and poskim stating otherwise.
I suggest his talmidim should go look for mixed buses, most preferable where the women go in summer clothing (..), and those yidden that listen to the other gedolim should board the mehadrin buses.
6
Dec 28, 2011 at 05:48 PM shredready Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it...Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way..... ”
of course Jews that know will react differently since we know it is all nonsense and not based on the Torah
7
Dec 28, 2011 at 05:54 PM Gimpel Z. Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it...Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way..... ”
He's not saying anywhere that he doesn't respect or understand the concept of separate seating. Of course he understands and respects it. We can respect every chumrah so long as they are just that - chumros - and not confused with actual halacha. I'm sure that given the choice, Rabbi Melamed would choose to ride on a mehadrin bus vs. a mixed bus, but I'm also sure that if he had the choice of riding on a mixed bus in order to avoid chillul hashem and chillul torah, he'd choose that option as well. I'm also sure that if he chose an unofficially mehadrin bus and a woman pulled a Rosa Parks on it, he'd chose to sit quietly in order to avoid a chillul hashem. Stop avoiding the real issue which is that extremists need to respect those who choose not to take on their chumros, not that frum yidden need to respect everyone else's chumros more.
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Dec 28, 2011 at 05:57 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ come on, i'm sorry but nothing personal,what he said made no sense.
first of all many frum people don't want to sit or be pushed with ladies, so give them the full respect to keep their kosher busses in their neighborhood.
secondly, can't a mother separate from her 11 year old son for a small bus ride? ”
And allow my 11 year old son to sit near an overly "friendly" older man? Who is watching that?
9
Dec 28, 2011 at 06:04 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Good chance to get head lines.. He made it.
10
Dec 28, 2011 at 06:16 PM A Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it...Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way..... ”
The goyim and media in NY don't have a clue what is halacha and what is not, especially when they have some frum guy with peyos telling them that this segregation between men and women is a law from the Torah. They don't want to be unpolitically correct and say something against an apparantly religious behavior. It's ridiculous to use their "understanding" and "respect" to prove anything.
Rabbi Melamud, on the other hand, has somewhat of a better idea of what constitutes halacha than those goyim and reporters. He stands with many many poskim both past and present who acknowledge that separate seating on buses is not a halacha. It is therefore more likely that people who try to enforce that segregation to be wrong.
All these chumras that have appeared in the past 20 years have somehow become halacha to many but that doesn't mean they are in actuality halacha. And the violence and disrespect that has come between yidden because of these chumras is a sign of how twisted the chumras are.
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Dec 28, 2011 at 06:25 PM clear-thinker Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it...Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way..... ”
Which news reporters said this? Which "Goyim in Ny" were you standing with. So, when you disagree with a Rav it is OK to be disrespectful? I find it hard to believe that any news reporters "understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration". It is interesting that you have such a problem when a Rav speaks of the difference between custom and Torah. The problem is that too many people believe in custom and not enough people follow Torah.
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Dec 28, 2011 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it...Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way..... ”
So let's see here....just for the record...when is the last time you were on a public bus? Or are you rich enough to take car services or have your own car? You see, for those that don't, public transportation is a way of life, in Israel and all over the world.
In other words, from what I understand...you have never ridden the public system, like bus, train, railway...plane...etc. because if you have, you very well know that you don't have too many choices, other than stand your way through it if you want to be machmir...and if that's what you do, kol hakovod. But.......it's not obligatory, you can sit down and enjoy your ride...take a sefer, listen to a shiur...do whatever you need if you struggle with your feelings....but you can't impose it on others, who for that matter don't think about the worst thing every time they come in contact with a female.
We are talking about PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION...
No one is against you getting a license, buying a bus...and doing your thing...allowing whomever you want and by whatever rule you impose. No problem...
He is stating halacha, not chumra...LISTEN...LISTEN WELL.
NOBODY OUT THERE IS AGAINST ANYONE LIVING THEIR LIFE THE WAY THEY PLEASE!
13
Dec 28, 2011 at 06:27 PM Shlomo Says:Report as Inappropriate
#1 Yossi: he does understand it. He said it's a stringency. The fact that you hold something else doesn't mean that the "world has turned around."
#4 azisvort: "frum people don't want to sit or be pushed with ladies." Well, all the frum ladies I know are people (your sentence implies that ladies aren't people). Also, not all bus rides are short.
#5 Posek: So now turn your sentance around--is everyone obligated to listen to your Posek? Absolutely not.
#6: shredready: "nonsense and not based on the Torah." Why is it necessary to demean someone that you disagree with?
Has V'shalom! Has the Torah shrunk and become so small that there is only one halacha, one psak, one derek? Torah is now "my way or the highway"???
Sad
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Dec 28, 2011 at 06:33 PM YJay1 Says:Report as Inappropriate
What many fail to realize (now including Rav Melamed) is that the problem is NOT segregated buses per se. These buses are used by a crowd who WANTS these buses out of their own free will. The problem is the "zealots" who seek to impose this chumrah on everyone else.
I ride these buses every day and from my personal experience I can tell you that: 1) 95 percent of the passengers WANT this "segregation". 2) The other 4 percent respect the 95 percent and don't make any problems. 3) The last 1 percent don't want to respect the 95 percent and choose to sit in the "wrong" place - but guess what, it's their right!
So what happens? On a typical day - nothing. On a blue day - some crazy "zealot" will come along and start screaming, make a Chilul Hashem, and ruin it for all of us. Just like the story that was printed here on VIN earlier today.
So who is the problem? The thousands of Jews who want these buses, or the few "zealots" who make it to the headlines? Anyone who condemns these buses because of the handful of stories featuring these "zealots" are simply playing right into their hands!
Should women stop wearing long sleeves because the "zealots" are trying to impose it on others?
15
Dec 28, 2011 at 07:25 PM Wow Says:Report as Inappropriate
In today's world it is rare to find a posek that differentiates between halacha and chumra..
Unfortunately, in our chareidi community this distinction has been obliterated with so many insisting that chumra is halacha.
Reading thsi is like breath of fresh air.
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Dec 28, 2011 at 06:50 PM moshe shmiel Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it...Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way..... ”
Your mind is so flat that you don't even begin to understand what rabbi melamed is saying. He makes an important point that if we don't teach our kids (and ourselves) the difference between halacha and chumra we are making a fundamental mistake in chinuch. Ppl like you will never understand due to your limited intelligence this comment is for ppl who are able to think a little with their mind.
17
Dec 28, 2011 at 06:51 PM jersey Yid Says:Report as Inappropriate
I just love the way the commentors who waste their time on this website (me included) are sufficient experts in halacha to deride this rav. I would like to know what are your credentials? And don't tell me other rabbanim have said otherwise, that gives you no grounds to challenge someone that has an well grounded alternate interpretation. Don't follow it, but you have no right to disrespect it. The whole yiddesh world sits on mixed busses, so don't pasul everyone just becuase someone wants to one-up in chumra land. You want tznius, ditch your mcmansions and show-off shtreimlach, that is tznius also.
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Dec 28, 2011 at 07:09 PM HaNavon Says:Report as Inappropriate
1,4,5:
There is absolutely no halachic basis whatsoever for forcing other people to sit seperately!
We have a Shulchan Aruch, and it's got all of the dinim that we need to live, don't quote anyone who adds anything to our religion! They're not doing k'din by saying that sitting next to a woman on a bus is assur. There is no such issur!
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Dec 28, 2011 at 07:10 PM LouKay Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Is everybody obligated to listen to the his psak? Absolutely not! Especially when there are so many well renowned gedolim and poskim stating otherwise.
I suggest his talmidim should go look for mixed buses, most preferable where the women go in summer clothing (..), and those yidden that listen to the other gedolim should board the mehadrin buses. ”
Oy!
The question is NOT how we or your generically referenced " ...renowned gedolim and poskim stating otherwise.." define tznius or even if we have to or if it's optional to use mehadrin buses.
THE questions of the day:
Is if this can be forced on others, and how far can people go to enforce this?
Is this a "chumra" that some hold some don't?
I am waiting for all the "GEDOLEI HADOR" from both sides Chassidish & Yeshivish to issue a definitive ruling on whether these issues raise to the point that allows one person to abuse, spit on,or even hit etc... another yid .... period.
Their silence is deafening.
20
Dec 28, 2011 at 08:51 PM lakewooder Says:Report as Inappropriate
Which Posek says that we should have separate busses? I am not aware of any pesak in favor of segregating busses.
On the other hand these buses are private. The history is that originally there was a private company running these lines. When Egged saw that it was profitable they used their government connections to force the company to sell it to them.
This is a private line and the provocateurs are leidigeyers who should find jobs that enrich others' lives instead their own 15 mins of fame. What has N.Ragen done for the world that she feels she can disparage others?
21
Dec 28, 2011 at 08:08 PM Avreich1 Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ come on, i'm sorry but nothing personal,what he said made no sense.
first of all many frum people don't want to sit or be pushed with ladies, so give them the full respect to keep their kosher busses in their neighborhood.
secondly, can't a mother separate from her 11 year old son for a small bus ride? ”
"secondly, can't a mother separate from her 11 year old son for a small bus ride?"
Why should she have to?
22
Dec 28, 2011 at 08:24 PM jordon Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it...Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way..... ”
So lets hear from you whats the halacha bring clear mara mikomois, and everything is fine if the woman dont mind thats when we ALL undrstand and how about woman should not be ALOWED to drive, or even more they should not be going to the grocery shopping or maybe have seprate cashiers one for men and one for ladies?? now why not? o and put it on your religion. You get my point there is halacha period and then there is frumkiten. dont force your frumkiten on someone else.
23
Dec 28, 2011 at 08:34 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it...Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way..... ”
listen guys start taking taxis if its so important to you wouldnt you spend extra money not to be nichshal in a issur?!
24
Dec 28, 2011 at 08:45 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ come on, i'm sorry but nothing personal,what he said made no sense.
first of all many frum people don't want to sit or be pushed with ladies, so give them the full respect to keep their kosher busses in their neighborhood.
secondly, can't a mother separate from her 11 year old son for a small bus ride? ”
No. A frum mother doesn't want to be separated from her younger children for a bus ride. Nor do most frum men want to be separated from their wives while riding the bus. Its only perverts such as yourself who worry about "being pushed with ladies". Please get some professional help and stop projecting your meshugaas on normal yidden.
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Dec 28, 2011 at 09:18 PM frater Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it...Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way..... ”
Where did you find those goyim? I'm not a Jew and sorry, I don't understand segregate buses. The first thing that springs to my mind when I hear about it is Iran, Afghanistan...
26
Dec 28, 2011 at 09:27 PM Halaivy Says:Report as Inappropriate
I keep on following these stories and realize that it's the modern that keep on bad mouthing the chareidim and trying to impose their opinion and pesack halacha.
The time has come to start respecting other peoples believes and if their poskim say that this is the torah says even if they are wrong they must listen to them.
I have yet to see one single comment from a chareidy bashing the modern and would love to see the same from the modern
27
Dec 28, 2011 at 09:36 PM qazxc Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Very interesting that the Goyim in NY when the Willansburgh-BP bus was in the papers and i was standing on 18th ave. with news reporters most said that they understand why we sit segerated and they respect the jews for folowing their segeration but Rabbi Melamed dosent understand it...Does he really NOT understand it or he needs to please some of his followers or mispalelim.?
Its mamesh unbelievable how this world has turned around that a frum RUV can pasken this way..... ”
The secular media in NY also think gay marriage is wonderful and respect the 'sanctity' of the relationship between 'married' same-sex couples.
What's your point? That we should accept the values of the demented, perverted values of the secular media as our own???
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Dec 28, 2011 at 10:29 PM shvigger Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Where did you find those goyim? I'm not a Jew and sorry, I don't understand segregate buses. The first thing that springs to my mind when I hear about it is Iran, Afghanistan... ”
That's because you don't understand Judaism, Torah, and Halacha. On a simpler level, can you understand that cultural norms differ from place to place? One cannot judge societal norms of Iran and Afghanistan based on the ideals of western culture. With that said, gender segregation within Judaism is based on Torah and the desire to remain holy. Do you even know what holiness, the way Judaism defines it means? It would take 500 hours to explain it, so I ain't even going there.
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Dec 28, 2011 at 10:38 PM Crazykanoiy Says:Report as Inappropriate
Yasher Koach! These so called "chumras" must stop. If buses become segregated then the next thing will be separate sidewalks and then separate stores and on and on. We have enough real Halacha issues to be makpid on and we do not need artificial chumros.
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Dec 28, 2011 at 11:05 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Vayigash 46:7 7. "His sons and his sons' sons with him, his daughters and his sons' daughters and all his descendants he brought with him to Egypt." separate seating?
31
Dec 28, 2011 at 11:52 PM So true Says:Report as Inappropriate
This rav is completely right. These mehadrin buses are not good for the families of klal yisrael. If a boy needs to travel with his mother or sister its forbidden. This can cause a lot of psychological and emotional issues within klal yisrael.
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Dec 29, 2011 at 01:43 AM Respect Says:Report as Inappropriate
what R Melamed is saying makes sense. Mehadrin buses are a chumra or a geder. This isn't to say that there aren't communities who have accepted this chumra, he is just saying that stricly al pi hallacha they aren't required.
His other point about detriment to family structure is not a direct quote. Please be wary of any points attributed to a Rav, but interpreted by someone else.
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Dec 29, 2011 at 01:52 AM Greener Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Yasher Koach! These so called "chumras" must stop. If buses become segregated then the next thing will be separate sidewalks and then separate stores and on and on. We have enough real Halacha issues to be makpid on and we do not need artificial chumros. ”
"If buses become segregated then the next thing will be separate sidewalks and then separate stores ..."
I got news for you. Here in EY we already have separate sidewalks, and in stores there are separate check-out lines, separate lines for ordering pizza and separate seating areas. In the building where I work I have suggested that we have separate elevators - but so far no takers - they just don't take me seriously - yet. Now I am going out to the front of my building to smoke; I won't demand separate smoking areas because I don't think women should be allowed to smoke.
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Dec 29, 2011 at 02:47 AM AviKane Says:Report as Inappropriate
Some food for thought. My neighbor in Kiryat Sefer says that his daughters are uncomfortable sitting in the back of the bus where the Arab workers usually sit. So one chumrah is actually causing an avlah to frum Beis Yaakov girls who feel that they're being gawked at.
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Dec 29, 2011 at 04:39 AM abeee Says:Report as Inappropriate
The psak maybe good for his shul. But the Gedolei Hador stated otherwise.
"Yesh Darke Achrini", if it's possible to go a different way (a Mehadrin Bus for that matter) you have to do it. We are Frum jews ? we have to follow them. Otherwise, "Avdo B'hefkeire Nicha Lei" .
36
Dec 29, 2011 at 07:38 AM SherryTheNoahide Says:Report as Inappropriate
Sorry, but it's SherryTheNoahide w\another question for everybody! (I always have a million of them!)
What exactly is "Chumras"? Is that like, a "law" that is set up by a Rabbi, that really isn't a "Law" at all? More like, a moral code that would be best to live by, so that you can remain more Holy? Or...??
Thanks!
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Dec 29, 2011 at 08:25 AM Mark Levin Says:Report as Inappropriate
If these r'shoyim think by acting like unmentionable body orifices they will bring about ba'alay tshuva and Moshiach, they are sadly mistaken.
If they have a problem with women on the busses, let them not be cheap & GO USE A CAR!
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Dec 29, 2011 at 09:13 AM Michael in Seattle Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Sorry, but it's SherryTheNoahide w\another question for everybody! (I always have a million of them!)
What exactly is "Chumras"? Is that like, a "law" that is set up by a Rabbi, that really isn't a "Law" at all? More like, a moral code that would be best to live by, so that you can remain more Holy? Or...??
Thanks! ”
A "Chumra" is a translated as stricture, i.e. following a strict point of view. Usually beyond the letter of the law.
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Dec 29, 2011 at 10:10 AM Ben_Kol Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I keep on following these stories and realize that it's the modern that keep on bad mouthing the chareidim and trying to impose their opinion and pesack halacha.
The time has come to start respecting other peoples believes and if their poskim say that this is the torah says even if they are wrong they must listen to them.
I have yet to see one single comment from a chareidy bashing the modern and would love to see the same from the modern ”
The Charedim bash the modern all the time. One recent comment that I remember (on the Rabbi Horowitz's op-ed) stated that the Modern Orthodox do not keep the Torah.
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Dec 29, 2011 at 10:18 AM grannysmith Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Where did you find those goyim? I'm not a Jew and sorry, I don't understand segregate buses. The first thing that springs to my mind when I hear about it is Iran, Afghanistan... ”
150 years ago, every church in America had seperate seating - and entrances- for men and women. Aand when the government began building high schools at the beginning of the 20th century, they designed seperate entrances for boys and girls, still clearly visibly engraved in the stone lintels over the doorways. Tthere was a time when decent regular Christians understood that seperation of the genders is frequently wholesome and appropriate. All of this changed after the world wars but that doesn't make Jews old-fashioned. We just are more consistent in holding on to timeless values.
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Dec 29, 2011 at 12:16 PM Crazykanoiy Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ 150 years ago, every church in America had seperate seating - and entrances- for men and women. Aand when the government began building high schools at the beginning of the 20th century, they designed seperate entrances for boys and girls, still clearly visibly engraved in the stone lintels over the doorways. Tthere was a time when decent regular Christians understood that seperation of the genders is frequently wholesome and appropriate. All of this changed after the world wars but that doesn't make Jews old-fashioned. We just are more consistent in holding on to timeless values. ”
Yes, and the goyim of hundreds of years ago were also "kanoyum" they assaulted and often killed those that did not believe in their savior.
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Dec 29, 2011 at 01:01 PM CommonSense Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Is everybody obligated to listen to the his psak? Absolutely not! Especially when there are so many well renowned gedolim and poskim stating otherwise.
I suggest his talmidim should go look for mixed buses, most preferable where the women go in summer clothing (..), and those yidden that listen to the other gedolim should board the mehadrin buses. ”
Of course not everyone has to listen to his Psak...
But that's precisely the point!
Not everyone has to listen to your Psak either. So you cannot enforce something which is in essence a machlokes...
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Dec 29, 2011 at 04:06 PM wondering Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ That's because you don't understand Judaism, Torah, and Halacha. On a simpler level, can you understand that cultural norms differ from place to place? One cannot judge societal norms of Iran and Afghanistan based on the ideals of western culture. With that said, gender segregation within Judaism is based on Torah and the desire to remain holy. Do you even know what holiness, the way Judaism defines it means? It would take 500 hours to explain it, so I ain't even going there. ”
Are you so sure that you understand Torah and Halacha. Here is a Rabbi who is saying that it is NOT halacha yet you lecture a non- Jew that it is? And yes, as Americans or Westerners we DO judge the cultural norms of Iran and Afghanistan. We even go to war to stop some of them and we certainly DONT LET THEM BRING THOSE CULTURAL NORMS to Western countries (without a fight anyway) Are you aware that in many of those countries men marry multiple wives? Should we say no problem - bring that to the West because it is your culture?
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Dec 31, 2011 at 03:49 PM TorahJew613 Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ come on, i'm sorry but nothing personal,what he said made no sense.
first of all many frum people don't want to sit or be pushed with ladies, so give them the full respect to keep their kosher busses in their neighborhood.
secondly, can't a mother separate from her 11 year old son for a small bus ride? ”
I agree with you on the fact that many men and women a like do not perfer to be pushed and shoved on to a bus packed with many people but being that i live here i can tell u that seperate buses go a lot farther than just that for example
1. You are very likely to find a harried mother with all 3 kids sceaming being shuved very rudely to the back.
2. a long bus ride such as one from Yerushalim to Tzafs having no seets in the back b/c MEN who are sitting there refuse to get up and the bus being so pack that the spisific woman is forced to stand in the asle in the front of the bus and then have garbage thone on her.
and last but not least 7 is the adge in wich it is considered unexseptible for some one to be on the wrong side of the bus and a 7 yr old is very likely to be very unhappy to be sperated from his or her perrent