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New York - Increasing K’vod Shamayim

Published on: January 1, 2012 05:34 PM
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Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz answering qustions to participants who attended his seminar at Tri-Star summer Bungalow colony in Woodbourne, NY on July 24 2011. Rabbi Horowitz is calling for a Yom Tefilah to pray for peace after Israeli zealots caused a major Chilul Hashem in the mediaRabbi Yaakov Horowitz answering qustions to participants who attended his seminar at Tri-Star summer Bungalow colony in Woodbourne, NY on July 24 2011. Rabbi Horowitz is calling for a Yom Tefilah to pray for peace after Israeli zealots caused a major Chilul Hashem in the media

New York - In the past few days as tensions have escalated in Eretz Yisroel, and more so after the grotesque and deplorable use of Holocaust imagery in last night’s protest, we have been inundated by hundreds of emails from Jews worldwide asking for a positive manner in which they can channel their frustration and pain at the extraordinary Chillul Hashem unfolding before our eyes.

The goals for any possible initiative as expressed by our readers were that it:

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1) Condemns the violence in Israel in an unequivocal manner

2) Expresses support for the overriding genuine Torah value of Derachea Darchei Noam (The path of the Torah is one of pleasantness)

3) Creates a teaching moment for us to speak to our children and students about the horrible effects of intolerance and violence, and the importance of tolerance and Shalom

4) Conveys our solidarity with the peaceful citizens of Beit Shemesh

5) Offers a venue to convey a clear message to the worldwide media that the vast, overwhelming majority of our community members are diametrically opposed to the actions and mindset of the protesters

Several ideas have been proposed, and we would appreciate the input and suggestions of our readers in possibly developing a plan that would accomplish these goals.

Perhaps the most practical, effective, and inexpensive effort might be to designate a specific time this week for community-based Tefillah programs around the world. This way, dozens and perhaps hundreds of communities can participate at work, in shuls and schools.

It is our hope and prayer that the positive energy generated by an effort we develop together will usher in a spirit of respect, restraint and tolerance among Hashem’s diverse children.

Our daily She’moneh Esrei ends with a prayer for peace, since we refer to Shalom as an all-encompassing blessing. May our pursuit of Shalom generate Hashem’s endless Brachos upon us all.

Respectfully,

Yakov Horowitz


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1

 Jan 01, 2012 at 06:23 PM Nebech Says:

I dont get it
Our chareidishe
Brothers are being persecuted in eretz yisroel
How is that a chillul hashem ?

The only chilul Hashem that I see, is that we believe the media
Against our own brothers

Another thing I don't get is why the author chose focusing on davening for piece
Instead of davening for mashiach.

2

 Jan 01, 2012 at 06:25 PM Halaivy Says:

That protest was called by the Chavrei Habedatz that are a Daas torah and we have a mitzvah (one of the 613)to listen to them Veasisah kechol asher yoruchah and that is even if they tell you on right that it's left and on left that it's right while Derocheha darcai noam means that even when it looks like violence to the average person that is the way to peace.
The Torah way is to listen to our gedolim and not to opinions of posters on a blog.

3

 Jan 01, 2012 at 06:25 PM brooklynjew Says:

Two influantional chasidic weekly news papers, had their headlines screaming against the israeli police while giving courage to the extremist demonstrators...
The subscribers of these weekly's are among if not the largest chasidic dynasty here in the usa, if you can't convince their leadership that such behavior is despicable, then you are wasting your time explaining to the world that most charaidim don't possess these extremist view's...

4

 Jan 01, 2012 at 07:43 PM MidwesterGuy Says:

Reply to #1  
Nebech Says:

I dont get it
Our chareidishe
Brothers are being persecuted in eretz yisroel
How is that a chillul hashem ?

The only chilul Hashem that I see, is that we believe the media
Against our own brothers

Another thing I don't get is why the author chose focusing on davening for piece
Instead of davening for mashiach.

I don't get it. Our charedishe brothers in Eretz Yisroel are committing violent acts and creating chillul HaShem on a daily basis, and all they can think of is to blame the media for highlighting their own actions, regardless of how other people act.

The author chose to daven for peace because problems that were bain odom l'chaveiro were the aveiros that caused the Bais HaMikdosh to be destroyed in the first place, and if we don't fix those problems, then no amount of davening will ever bring Moshiach. It's sad that you don't get simple things that Rabbi Horowitz wants to accomplish.

5

 Jan 01, 2012 at 07:40 PM Ben_Kol Says:

Reply to #1  
Nebech Says:

I dont get it
Our chareidishe
Brothers are being persecuted in eretz yisroel
How is that a chillul hashem ?

The only chilul Hashem that I see, is that we believe the media
Against our own brothers

Another thing I don't get is why the author chose focusing on davening for piece
Instead of davening for mashiach.

There is only one way to understand your comment and all the other comments like yours: שנאה מקלקלת את השורה, Hatred makes the straight crooked.

You are so choked up with your hatred of all Jews who are not like you that you have lost sight of reality.

Please do teshuvah before it's too late.

6

 Jan 01, 2012 at 07:39 PM MidwesternGuy Says:

Reply to #2  
Halaivy Says:

That protest was called by the Chavrei Habedatz that are a Daas torah and we have a mitzvah (one of the 613)to listen to them Veasisah kechol asher yoruchah and that is even if they tell you on right that it's left and on left that it's right while Derocheha darcai noam means that even when it looks like violence to the average person that is the way to peace.
The Torah way is to listen to our gedolim and not to opinions of posters on a blog.

"Even when it looks like violence to the average person that is the way of peace."

Next thing, you'll be metaher a sheretz. This is twisted thinking that speaks for itself. They are clearly outside the world of the Torah. By the way, can you think of a single Posek M'fursam (I used those words carefully) who actually endorsed getting dressed up in Holocaust costumes? I bet you can't.

7

 Jan 01, 2012 at 06:34 PM Nirah-Lee Says:

A) A tzav (not necessarily public) from the Rabbonim Manhigim in Eretz Yisroel to the misdirected Yidden in Beit Shemesh to please cease and desist.
and
B) A public kol koreh from the Eretz Yisroel daas Torah stating clearly this is not our way nor the way of any bnei aliyah and perhaps even offering words of conciliation (if not outright bakoshas mechila) on behalf of mainstream Jewry HaChareidim l'dvar Hashem.

8

 Jan 01, 2012 at 06:59 PM Mendel Zilberberg Says:

I think that in addition to Tefillah groups, there should be a web site/petition so that like minded people can show their agreement and the numbers can be tabulated to demonstrate that many frum jews are opposed to te conduct you write about.
Aside from the tragic issues of last week, we now have to deal with (and affirmatively repudiate the acts of ) people dressed as frum jews trivializing the Holocaust.

9

 Jan 01, 2012 at 07:20 PM yalili Says:

Reply to #2  
Halaivy Says:

That protest was called by the Chavrei Habedatz that are a Daas torah and we have a mitzvah (one of the 613)to listen to them Veasisah kechol asher yoruchah and that is even if they tell you on right that it's left and on left that it's right while Derocheha darcai noam means that even when it looks like violence to the average person that is the way to peace.
The Torah way is to listen to our gedolim and not to opinions of posters on a blog.

Do u please mind to tall me what rabonim run the eida

10

 Jan 01, 2012 at 07:27 PM zb2400 Says:

Reply to #1  
Nebech Says:

I dont get it
Our chareidishe
Brothers are being persecuted in eretz yisroel
How is that a chillul hashem ?

The only chilul Hashem that I see, is that we believe the media
Against our own brothers

Another thing I don't get is why the author chose focusing on davening for piece
Instead of davening for mashiach.

Of course you don't get, because you are so brainwashed that no amount of evidence that your dear "charedishe brothers" are making a despicable chillul hashem would convince you otherwise. Mr. Nebech you and your fellow apologist are part and parcel of this tremendous chillul hashem that we see before our eyes. And anybody in America or Israel who wishes to side with these reshoim should be put in cherem from the rest of the frum velt. T

11

 Jan 01, 2012 at 07:34 PM BronxBubby Says:

Reply to #1  
Nebech Says:

I dont get it
Our chareidishe
Brothers are being persecuted in eretz yisroel
How is that a chillul hashem ?

The only chilul Hashem that I see, is that we believe the media
Against our own brothers

Another thing I don't get is why the author chose focusing on davening for piece
Instead of davening for mashiach.

They are being persecuted by being arrested for beating up a store owner and spitting on an 8 year old girl? In what country would that be allowed? I wouldn't want to live in such a place.
I am glad to hear this from Rabbi Horowitz. He seems to always speak for Torah and menshlikeit.
However the silence of the Charedi Ashkenazi Rabbis in Eretz Yisroel speaks volumes. They are to blame.

12

 Jan 01, 2012 at 07:36 PM sechelhayusher Says:

Why does the Edah Chareides protest contreverse with the ways of rabbi horowitz, all they protest is the force the police and goverment is using, on the use of violence and spitting everyone is opposed including every kannoei (as i consider myself among them and know them well from the inside), besides maybe a few sickheads (and im not sure they count till 20)/

On the subject of seperate gender on busses, many many gedolim in isreal and USA are for it, as you see the effort they put in all years (if you know your history) to make it happen in every yiddushe yishuv, monsey bussses (skwere), kj busses (satmar), bp-willm bus, 402 yerushalayim-bnei berak, all busses in bnei berak, modian, betaar, ashdod, busses to miron-tzefas, etc. this isn't a matter of eida chareides or kanoim or beis shemesh.

So lets make it clear to our own brethen, were against violence, against spitting, but were pro seperated busses in our communities without any force on others!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is something thats being misled by rabbi horowitz and alot of others

13

 Jan 01, 2012 at 07:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Sorry Rabbi Horowitz, I hate to be cynical but this tznius issue is going to be a fight until Moshiach comes. Its very simple and I cant believe you dont see the problem. The problem is every one has their red line. One persons red line is not to put women into the newspaper. one persons red line is to have segregated buses. Ones persons red line is to wear seamed stockings. I'm chasidish my daughters wear tights at 3 years old yet someone told my wife once were not "chasidish " because im not makpid on beige stockings. Do you see where i'm going with this. The extremists have their red line and they aren't moving it because the media or politicians are making a fuss, they will just keep on fighting.

14

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:01 PM Truth Says:

I'm all for peace and condenming the actions of a few Charedim, but only if it's reciprocated. All the Freye do is incite more and more hatred against Charedim. It's not discrimination to have private buses that are separated. It's not discrimination to not have to see Pritzus in their own neighborhood in Bet Shemesh. This isn't pre-war Germany where we have to beg for forgiveness. It is discrimination Not to hire s/o who won't work on Shabbos. This goes on here in the US & in Israel. Just like the world has no idea what Marriage is anymore -they think it's also between the same gender, they also have no idea what discrimination is! Where are all these Rabbis decrying the discrimination against Shabbos observers? Or is it they only don't like bad publicity from the Goyim in this world? Of all of a sudden people are outraged about a few dressed as Holocaust Prisoners. If you care about right & wrong -where is the outrage about Religious employment discrimination?

15

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:06 PM chosen-nation Says:

Reply to #1  
Nebech Says:

I dont get it
Our chareidishe
Brothers are being persecuted in eretz yisroel
How is that a chillul hashem ?

The only chilul Hashem that I see, is that we believe the media
Against our own brothers

Another thing I don't get is why the author chose focusing on davening for piece
Instead of davening for mashiach.

There are over 200 comments on the article with the pics, if you DON'T GET IT, u can start reading......you'll barely find a handfull of people agreeing with u

If we want to do something positive, how about we just start saying please and thank you and holding the door open for the next person (man or woman), that's a start.

16

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:07 PM unbelvbl Says:

Reply to #5  
Ben_Kol Says:

There is only one way to understand your comment and all the other comments like yours: שנאה מקלקלת את השורה, Hatred makes the straight crooked.

You are so choked up with your hatred of all Jews who are not like you that you have lost sight of reality.

Please do teshuvah before it's too late.

Its YOUR hatred towards the Toldos Aron and Satmar that makes you spew your hate agianst them and side with a Shiksa who wanted to ignite a a firestorm of hate afainst the frum Jewes the likes that wasn't seen since WWII.

17

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:07 PM sammmy Says:

very sad that even rabonim in the usa are missing the point and being convinced by the secular media. maybe call your friends and contacts in eretz yisrael before condemning frum yidden. read any chareidi newspaper from eretz yisrael - im not talking about sikrikim or even the eidah chareidis- regular chareidim see this overall story as an incitement campaign against the chareidim. yes there are parts of this story that we should be embarrassed of, that we must condemn, but the main issue thats going on in eretz yisrael is incitement by the media and others against the chareidim. and i assume most people reading this website consider themselves chareidim.

18

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Halaivy Says:

That protest was called by the Chavrei Habedatz that are a Daas torah and we have a mitzvah (one of the 613)to listen to them Veasisah kechol asher yoruchah and that is even if they tell you on right that it's left and on left that it's right while Derocheha darcai noam means that even when it looks like violence to the average person that is the way to peace.
The Torah way is to listen to our gedolim and not to opinions of posters on a blog.

Did the rabbonim advised to wear yellow stars?

19

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:07 PM Halaivy Says:

Reply to #6  
MidwesternGuy Says:

"Even when it looks like violence to the average person that is the way of peace."

Next thing, you'll be metaher a sheretz. This is twisted thinking that speaks for itself. They are clearly outside the world of the Torah. By the way, can you think of a single Posek M'fursam (I used those words carefully) who actually endorsed getting dressed up in Holocaust costumes? I bet you can't.

1) You are right with your first comment "Even when it looks like violence to the average person that is the way of peace."
2) Yes it was organized by the bedatz and their Rosh BD rav Moshe Sternbubh former cheif rabbi of Johannesburg and the author of tens of tshuvah seforim with thousands of pesokim who is considered on of the biggest poskim in the world (happens to be a litvak).
Now can you name one poseck that condemned it?

20

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:14 PM tbo Says:

rabi horowitz should at least make an effort to hear the chareidims side. Blindly following the incitful media is silly and a chilul hashem.

21

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:18 PM CommonSense Says:

We need to turn inward and stop being so co-dependent on other peoples behaviors (and beards) for our own peace and sense of righteousness.

We need to cultivate our own personal relationships with Hashem so that when other people do stupid things it shouldn't effect us and our own personal relationships.

That's the only answer...

22

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:18 PM DemsBeBabies Says:

Reply to #1  
Nebech Says:

I dont get it
Our chareidishe
Brothers are being persecuted in eretz yisroel
How is that a chillul hashem ?

The only chilul Hashem that I see, is that we believe the media
Against our own brothers

Another thing I don't get is why the author chose focusing on davening for piece
Instead of davening for mashiach.

what dont you get.
lets get rid of the multiple straw man argument you are making first.
a. these people are chareidim. says who? cause they dress in certain levush. so what? the term chareidi actually means something. it comes from a pasuk in yeshayah, and it means one who trembles before hashem. these people tremble before noone, including hashem.
b. they are being persecuted. how? a hooligan was tried and convicted for crimes, encluidng embezlement. you want to say it wasnt in beis din, ok, but to say persecuted because they are chareidi is ridiculous at best, and completely dishonest.
c. noone is believing the media over these said brothers (btw, these media folk in insrael are our brothers too) we are seeing with our own eyes, and using our won seichel. wearing auschwitz garb is not in any way a sane and proper way to protest anything.
d. this author chose to focus on piece [sic] because without it, moshiach aint coming!

23

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:27 PM Avreich1 Says:

Reply to #1  
Nebech Says:

I dont get it
Our chareidishe
Brothers are being persecuted in eretz yisroel
How is that a chillul hashem ?

The only chilul Hashem that I see, is that we believe the media
Against our own brothers

Another thing I don't get is why the author chose focusing on davening for piece
Instead of davening for mashiach.

"Our chareidishe
Brothers are being persecuted in eretz yisroel
How is that a chillul hashem ?"

Well, Nebech #1, if you do not consider
that to be a chilul haShem, the only conclusion we can draw
is that you consider
the persecution of Jews by Jews to be a kiddush haShem.

And that is plain crazy - by anyone's standards.

24

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:27 PM Nebech Says:

Reply to those who just don't get it
1st of all
How do you know your facts about the chareidim ?
Do you understand what frum Yidden go through in eretz yisroel
(even those who are not chareidim)
2nd of all
We daven for mashiach not piece
Because true piece will never be achieved untill mashiach

What's going on in eretz yisroel is that the Satan fighting and challenging what little we we Have left in yidishkeit
And sometimes their counter attack is overdone
Especially today when they have no clue how to fight him

But it's not like we're better, we are also failing miserably
To him in the united states (in different ways)
And if you don't know what I am talking about
Ask people who know

25

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:34 PM MidwesternGuy Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

Sorry Rabbi Horowitz, I hate to be cynical but this tznius issue is going to be a fight until Moshiach comes. Its very simple and I cant believe you dont see the problem. The problem is every one has their red line. One persons red line is not to put women into the newspaper. one persons red line is to have segregated buses. Ones persons red line is to wear seamed stockings. I'm chasidish my daughters wear tights at 3 years old yet someone told my wife once were not "chasidish " because im not makpid on beige stockings. Do you see where i'm going with this. The extremists have their red line and they aren't moving it because the media or politicians are making a fuss, they will just keep on fighting.

That's the craziest thing I've read in a long time. Why does there have to be ANY fighting?

Why can't you have your own minhogim, and others can have theirs, and we can just be at peace with each other? Are you really suggesting that people FIGHT over stockings? I really hope not.

Why can't we just live and let live and treat our brethren with love and respect? Instead, you see every disagreement as a "fight."

Let's make a deal, I won't force anything on you, and you shouldn't force anything on me, and we can all be at peace, whatever our "red lines" may be.

26

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:51 PM fromthepast Says:

I would like all of you to please help me ...

Jewish children were spit on when they went to schools
Our mothers wives and daughters called whores and prostitutes

We once called those people the antisemetic Nazis...what do we call them now? our devout brothers and important religious leaders of our generation.

Help me with this one please..I just do not understand...if one of these Jewish antisemites (they have a lot in common with the Nazis..see above) decides to kill a 6 year old girl for wearing..let's say tights or plastic glasses what we will call him - one of the g'dolei hador? put him on the same plane as Asarah Hargey Malchus? compare him to Moshe? or perhaps think of him as the ultimate in Yudenrein?

Some of the comments on this blog are perhaps just as bad as spitting on an 8 year old girl or calling a woman who may lose her life for the protection of her fellow Jew --all jews I might add, a whore.

I am not ashamed, I am not shocked, I am not heartbroken I just need help understanding why my sister who dies in Aushcwitz at the hand of the Nazis has a similar status as a 8 year old frum Jewish Girl in Israel..Maybe we really should not have our own country.SAD

27

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:52 PM Ari Says:

Reply to #3  
brooklynjew Says:

Two influantional chasidic weekly news papers, had their headlines screaming against the israeli police while giving courage to the extremist demonstrators...
The subscribers of these weekly's are among if not the largest chasidic dynasty here in the usa, if you can't convince their leadership that such behavior is despicable, then you are wasting your time explaining to the world that most charaidim don't possess these extremist view's...

It's a disgrace that chareidy nespapers openly encouraged violece and mocked the whole incident of the little girl being harrassed.

I stopped buying those rags of newspapers, filled with sinas chinam, for years. I bought one of them this week just to check out what they have to say about this all. I was shocked (yes, I was indeed shocked and surprised, I did not beleive a heimishe newspaper can sink this low) how they condoned all this violence and praised those trouble makers and "being mekadesh shem shomayim".

It must be pointed out that here too, in BP and Willi, do we have extremists who would harrass anyone who don't conform to their terror. Just go out any shabbas afternoon in willi to see numerouse women being harrassed and called "shiksas" just for listening to their rabbanim and pushing baby carriages. What a shame that some "rabbonim" encourage it!

28

 Jan 01, 2012 at 08:54 PM jackr Says:

Reply to #1  
Nebech Says:

I dont get it
Our chareidishe
Brothers are being persecuted in eretz yisroel
How is that a chillul hashem ?

The only chilul Hashem that I see, is that we believe the media
Against our own brothers

Another thing I don't get is why the author chose focusing on davening for piece
Instead of davening for mashiach.

If you don't get it, you really are a NEBECH. Our chareidishe brothers are not being persecuted. If you spit at a 7 year old girl, or call a soldier a whore, that you are not frum and not Hareidi, you are a low life menuvel.
For the chevra in Beit shemesh to spend their day watching 7year old girls walk into their school, they should all be arrested for Pedophilia. Which benTorah spends their time looking at the way a 7 year old girl dresses?

29

 Jan 01, 2012 at 09:09 PM esther Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

Sorry Rabbi Horowitz, I hate to be cynical but this tznius issue is going to be a fight until Moshiach comes. Its very simple and I cant believe you dont see the problem. The problem is every one has their red line. One persons red line is not to put women into the newspaper. one persons red line is to have segregated buses. Ones persons red line is to wear seamed stockings. I'm chasidish my daughters wear tights at 3 years old yet someone told my wife once were not "chasidish " because im not makpid on beige stockings. Do you see where i'm going with this. The extremists have their red line and they aren't moving it because the media or politicians are making a fuss, they will just keep on fighting.

everyone's entitled to his line or standards but that doesn't IN ANY WAY allow for him to assult others in the process.as for the whole holocaust party they made,it's simply unfathomable how any jew,let alone a frum jew connected to his past,could have participated in such a monstocity.

30

 Jan 01, 2012 at 09:29 PM Ben_Kol Says:

Reply to #12  
sechelhayusher Says:

Why does the Edah Chareides protest contreverse with the ways of rabbi horowitz, all they protest is the force the police and goverment is using, on the use of violence and spitting everyone is opposed including every kannoei (as i consider myself among them and know them well from the inside), besides maybe a few sickheads (and im not sure they count till 20)/

On the subject of seperate gender on busses, many many gedolim in isreal and USA are for it, as you see the effort they put in all years (if you know your history) to make it happen in every yiddushe yishuv, monsey bussses (skwere), kj busses (satmar), bp-willm bus, 402 yerushalayim-bnei berak, all busses in bnei berak, modian, betaar, ashdod, busses to miron-tzefas, etc. this isn't a matter of eida chareides or kanoim or beis shemesh.

So lets make it clear to our own brethen, were against violence, against spitting, but were pro seperated busses in our communities without any force on others!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is something thats being misled by rabbi horowitz and alot of others

You are another anti-Torah apologist who is not living in reality. You claim that almost every kannoi is opposed to violence. You say that the Edah takes the same path as Rabbi Horwitz. But anyone who read the signs at the anti-Torah anti-semitic Holocaust protest knows that both of these claims are lies. The protesters were supporting a certain Shmuel Weissfish. This Weissfish is a member of the violent sikrikim gang and he is to going jail for vandalizing a store. The anti-Torah kannoim consider him a tzadik. I think that the pro-Torah Chareidim lidvar Hashem, such as Rabbi Horowitz, would consider him a rosho, who actually deserves to be in jail.

31

 Jan 01, 2012 at 09:38 PM Ben_Kol Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

Sorry Rabbi Horowitz, I hate to be cynical but this tznius issue is going to be a fight until Moshiach comes. Its very simple and I cant believe you dont see the problem. The problem is every one has their red line. One persons red line is not to put women into the newspaper. one persons red line is to have segregated buses. Ones persons red line is to wear seamed stockings. I'm chasidish my daughters wear tights at 3 years old yet someone told my wife once were not "chasidish " because im not makpid on beige stockings. Do you see where i'm going with this. The extremists have their red line and they aren't moving it because the media or politicians are making a fuss, they will just keep on fighting.

Like all the other commentors who support the extremists, you distort the issue. The question is not where to draw the line -- the question is how to react to people who step over that line. Yelling at them, spitting at them, destroying their property is the NOT the right way. This animal-like behavior is ALWAYS over the line lechol hadei'os.

A general point:
The purpose of tznius is to raise man above the level of animals. It's absurd, therefore, to fight for tznius by behaving like an animal.

32

 Jan 01, 2012 at 09:45 PM Ben_Kol Says:

Reply to #17  
sammmy Says:

very sad that even rabonim in the usa are missing the point and being convinced by the secular media. maybe call your friends and contacts in eretz yisrael before condemning frum yidden. read any chareidi newspaper from eretz yisrael - im not talking about sikrikim or even the eidah chareidis- regular chareidim see this overall story as an incitement campaign against the chareidim. yes there are parts of this story that we should be embarrassed of, that we must condemn, but the main issue thats going on in eretz yisrael is incitement by the media and others against the chareidim. and i assume most people reading this website consider themselves chareidim.

Unfortunately, the Chareidi newspapers in EY are part of the problem. If their focus is on the anti-Charedi incitement, and they ignore the anti-Torah animalistic behavior that provoked that incitment, they are complicit in the rishus.

33

 Jan 01, 2012 at 09:54 PM unbelvbl Says:

Reply to #27  
Ari Says:

It's a disgrace that chareidy nespapers openly encouraged violece and mocked the whole incident of the little girl being harrassed.

I stopped buying those rags of newspapers, filled with sinas chinam, for years. I bought one of them this week just to check out what they have to say about this all. I was shocked (yes, I was indeed shocked and surprised, I did not beleive a heimishe newspaper can sink this low) how they condoned all this violence and praised those trouble makers and "being mekadesh shem shomayim".

It must be pointed out that here too, in BP and Willi, do we have extremists who would harrass anyone who don't conform to their terror. Just go out any shabbas afternoon in willi to see numerouse women being harrassed and called "shiksas" just for listening to their rabbanim and pushing baby carriages. What a shame that some "rabbonim" encourage it!

How could you compare what is happening in Eretz Yisroel to Shabos "shriers" in BP and in Willi?
The Eiruv in BP and in Willi was established by frum Chariedish Rabonim, and the lunatics who harras those who carry with the Eiruv, are only hurting themselves, because if I can't do what my Rav says, then I won't let you listen to your Rav either.
In Eretz Yisroel,

34

 Jan 01, 2012 at 10:09 PM unbelvbl Says:

Continued...
In Eretz Yisroel however, there was sort of a status quo; everybody knew that certain buses were mostly traveled by Chariedim, and that they wanted to sit separated from the women. Everything was fine and dandy until one Israeli instigator decided to ignite the fire of hate and concocted a BS story of being spoken to, too harshly, nebach.
The same thing in Beth shemesh. If a Yiddish neighbor moves in next to you, and they dress way below your standards, would you let your children associated with their children? Not if you would want your children to follow a different path.
The fruma in Beth Shemesh want to live with there own chumras, and the ultra-morden-everything-goes type of Jews want it different. So it was a fight waiting to happen. And they are both at fault; they should've settled this a human manor. But are you bashing only the chariedim?!

35

 Jan 01, 2012 at 10:16 PM Mendel Zilberberg Says:

Reply to #16  
unbelvbl Says:

Its YOUR hatred towards the Toldos Aron and Satmar that makes you spew your hate agianst them and side with a Shiksa who wanted to ignite a a firestorm of hate afainst the frum Jewes the likes that wasn't seen since WWII.

Please note that the WWII extermination of JEWS was not an attack on FRUM Jews but Jews of all backgrounds - all stripes and colors - even those that Orthodoxy does not see as being jewish at all. It appears that many are not able to seperate the segregation issues, the propriety of the attempts to achieve the segregation, and the trivialization of the Holocaust. One would have expected neo nazis to make light of the Holocaust - not our people. How would you react if the secular Jews had worn yellow stars to protest their perceived feelings of being pressured by other Jews. As an aside, I disagree with disparaging certain Rebbes as i disagree with calling a Jewish Soldier a "Shiksa"

36

 Jan 01, 2012 at 10:29 PM shredready Says:

Reply to #29  
esther Says:

everyone's entitled to his line or standards but that doesn't IN ANY WAY allow for him to assult others in the process.as for the whole holocaust party they made,it's simply unfathomable how any jew,let alone a frum jew connected to his past,could have participated in such a monstocity.

any jew the holocaust had nothing to do with being frum it had to do with one being a Jew

37

 Jan 01, 2012 at 10:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
MidwesterGuy Says:

I don't get it. Our charedishe brothers in Eretz Yisroel are committing violent acts and creating chillul HaShem on a daily basis, and all they can think of is to blame the media for highlighting their own actions, regardless of how other people act.

The author chose to daven for peace because problems that were bain odom l'chaveiro were the aveiros that caused the Bais HaMikdosh to be destroyed in the first place, and if we don't fix those problems, then no amount of davening will ever bring Moshiach. It's sad that you don't get simple things that Rabbi Horowitz wants to accomplish.

Part of what you are saying is true...but they sure love to "STIR THE POT". You give them an opening(we sure need to be careful, we are always in the eye of the storm, we are the eye)and they have a field day with it...then they slyly boil the pot by adding their own ingredients to the mix...and boy..what a fine shtrudel they've made!!!
When we are wrong .... we are wrong. But they love to find the needle in the haystack..they just love it!! admit it. The secular hate the frum and wait in ambush to find something to besmirch us!!! You would almost think that a religious goy loves us more than they do!

38

 Jan 01, 2012 at 10:33 PM brooklynjew Says:

Reply to #27  
Ari Says:

It's a disgrace that chareidy nespapers openly encouraged violece and mocked the whole incident of the little girl being harrassed.

I stopped buying those rags of newspapers, filled with sinas chinam, for years. I bought one of them this week just to check out what they have to say about this all. I was shocked (yes, I was indeed shocked and surprised, I did not beleive a heimishe newspaper can sink this low) how they condoned all this violence and praised those trouble makers and "being mekadesh shem shomayim".

It must be pointed out that here too, in BP and Willi, do we have extremists who would harrass anyone who don't conform to their terror. Just go out any shabbas afternoon in willi to see numerouse women being harrassed and called "shiksas" just for listening to their rabbanim and pushing baby carriages. What a shame that some "rabbonim" encourage it!

Finally someone on the same page with me, they are so misguided that it will probably take a miracle to wake them up...
the line between real kanuas and extremism faded long ago..

39

 Jan 01, 2012 at 10:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
MidwesternGuy Says:

That's the craziest thing I've read in a long time. Why does there have to be ANY fighting?

Why can't you have your own minhogim, and others can have theirs, and we can just be at peace with each other? Are you really suggesting that people FIGHT over stockings? I really hope not.

Why can't we just live and let live and treat our brethren with love and respect? Instead, you see every disagreement as a "fight."

Let's make a deal, I won't force anything on you, and you shouldn't force anything on me, and we can all be at peace, whatever our "red lines" may be.

sorry to disagree with you. But I live in the real world not the dream world.

40

 Jan 01, 2012 at 10:45 PM victim Says:

This is in response to jackr:; "Nazar Zahav Beaf Hachazar". The Gemora says this refers to men who go to the river where women are washing their laundry and they look for the reflection of the women. Need I say more!

41

 Jan 01, 2012 at 10:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
esther Says:

everyone's entitled to his line or standards but that doesn't IN ANY WAY allow for him to assult others in the process.as for the whole holocaust party they made,it's simply unfathomable how any jew,let alone a frum jew connected to his past,could have participated in such a monstocity.

I agree with you on this point 100%. But I still stand by my comments I wrote. Just to repeat myself In a utopian world people will live and let live. Until then you will have people who have "standards" or red lines - a holier then thou attitude, and wont be mishadech with others or let them come into their yeshivos or live in their neighborhoods or walk down "their" streets.

42

 Jan 01, 2012 at 10:52 PM proud jew Says:

There is only one practical suggestion that goes a long way to curb the insanity that has crept into our lives.I know Rabbi Horowitz. He was head counselor many years ago in Tzhelem Camp. My kids and everyone there adored him. Best years. Invests so much of his time helping yiddishe neshomas (project YES).He is entitled to have a daiya. A most respectable human being if ever there was one.
We need to teach our children from the day they understand...that we are one nation...that we need to love our fellow jew..NO MATTER WHAT..NO MATTER WHERE HE DAVENS, AND EVEN IF HE NEVER DAVENS! We need to teach them that we come from different places, with different MINHAGIM, some more stringent than others, some more mikel...and that each one has a derech that may be different from ours, but that it doesn't make one a better jew. We try to follow the minhagim of our parents, and we all have different ones. That a Satmar, Belz, Lubavich..or Klausenburg, or the myriad other kehillas ...Litvish or Yeshivish...they all make up this wonderful mosaic...we call yidden. Never tell your child that what they do is wrong. (unless chas vesholem they are oiver)teach them that they are right and have CONT:

43

 Jan 02, 2012 at 12:11 AM Knockyankel Says:

Reply to #35  
Mendel Zilberberg Says:

Please note that the WWII extermination of JEWS was not an attack on FRUM Jews but Jews of all backgrounds - all stripes and colors - even those that Orthodoxy does not see as being jewish at all. It appears that many are not able to seperate the segregation issues, the propriety of the attempts to achieve the segregation, and the trivialization of the Holocaust. One would have expected neo nazis to make light of the Holocaust - not our people. How would you react if the secular Jews had worn yellow stars to protest their perceived feelings of being pressured by other Jews. As an aside, I disagree with disparaging certain Rebbes as i disagree with calling a Jewish Soldier a "Shiksa"

It took a while till the secular jews started seeing that the nazis mean them as well

45

 Jan 02, 2012 at 12:50 AM enough Says:

enough with this garbadge, u wana be frum be frum at home, don't stir up trouble on the street, oh btw let's check how many of those zelous people keep their mouth shut during chazoras hashat's etc.
Why doesn't the army revoke their petor and drag them into the army ? U will see how fast they start behaving when they have to go to fight in a war possible with iran.

46

 Jan 02, 2012 at 01:03 AM unbelvbl Says:

Reply to #15  
chosen-nation Says:

There are over 200 comments on the article with the pics, if you DON'T GET IT, u can start reading......you'll barely find a handfull of people agreeing with u

If we want to do something positive, how about we just start saying please and thank you and holding the door open for the next person (man or woman), that's a start.

As chariedim don't do that. What a self hating Jew you are.

47

 Jan 02, 2012 at 01:11 AM rationalman Says:

Reply to #1  
Nebech Says:

I dont get it
Our chareidishe
Brothers are being persecuted in eretz yisroel
How is that a chillul hashem ?

The only chilul Hashem that I see, is that we believe the media
Against our own brothers

Another thing I don't get is why the author chose focusing on davening for piece
Instead of davening for mashiach.

you are right - you are clueless...your brothers are not being persecuted - they are the ones dishing it out...i would love to sit down with you and have a discussion as to how they are being persecuted and on a second note how can you justify their behavior regardless as to what is going on - none of the gedolim would approve the behavior of this ignorant, anti torah, charaidim - they are modern day sikirim just as 2000 years ago they were criminal element so too today

48

 Jan 02, 2012 at 08:07 AM Anonymous Says:

Besides for being horrified by violence, I struggle to find an acceptable excuse for any of this. Yes, I am opposed to compromises in tznius. What do I do if I encounter something inappropriate in the street? Why, I look away. Hopefully, I am on my way to the beis hamedrash, to learn, daven, or even if on my way to a store or business meeting - hopefully a mitzvah in some way (that's how our lives should function). Why would I steal from that energy or time to make a fuss? If I just continue on my way, we'll all be better off. I will not have accomplished making the other individual more frum or tzniusdig anyway. Our best shot at changing the world is to bring the kedusha of Torah and Mitzvos into the world. What is so hard for these "frummies" to understand about this? I thought this would be simple.

49

 Jan 02, 2012 at 09:10 AM DavidCohen Says:

Reply to #2  
Halaivy Says:

That protest was called by the Chavrei Habedatz that are a Daas torah and we have a mitzvah (one of the 613)to listen to them Veasisah kechol asher yoruchah and that is even if they tell you on right that it's left and on left that it's right while Derocheha darcai noam means that even when it looks like violence to the average person that is the way to peace.
The Torah way is to listen to our gedolim and not to opinions of posters on a blog.

What "gedolim"? That term gets used way to liberally these days. And anyone who incites massive Chillul Hashem is *NOT* a godol!

50

 Jan 02, 2012 at 09:19 AM clear-thinker Says:

Reply to #43  
Knockyankel Says:

It took a while till the secular jews started seeing that the nazis mean them as well

How you can continually be wrong is beyond me. Knockyankel, the nazis started in Germany. The Jews in that country were overwhelming non frum. The boycotts were against Jews. Kristalnacht was against Jews. Frum Jews, reform Jews, intermarried Jews. Just Jews. Trying to fit your personal wishes into reality just doesn't work.
What is happening in ey is an attempt to play the victim. You try it. They try it. Fortunately it doesn't even work with most of the frum community. Stop giving the secular newspapers things to write about. If you respect others they might begin to respect you.

51

 Jan 02, 2012 at 09:27 AM MAMAROCHEL Says:

Reply to #9  
yalili Says:

Do u please mind to tall me what rabonim run the eida

The Eida does not agree with what they are doing & has very loudly told them so! These are people who have made up their mind as to what they want to do & no one will stop them. It is brought down in the Seforim that before Mashiach comes there will be a Milchemes Achim, a Civil War in Eretz Yisroel. Until now I could not understand this, but now it is obvious. By the way at the end of the Sim Shalom Tefilla in Shmone Esrie we ask for BISHLOMECHA!! For H-Shem's way of peace. May we be Zoche to experience H-Shem's peace Bimhaira BeYamainu Amen

52

 Jan 02, 2012 at 10:48 AM bigwheeel Says:

Reply to #12  
sechelhayusher Says:

Why does the Edah Chareides protest contreverse with the ways of rabbi horowitz, all they protest is the force the police and goverment is using, on the use of violence and spitting everyone is opposed including every kannoei (as i consider myself among them and know them well from the inside), besides maybe a few sickheads (and im not sure they count till 20)/

On the subject of seperate gender on busses, many many gedolim in isreal and USA are for it, as you see the effort they put in all years (if you know your history) to make it happen in every yiddushe yishuv, monsey bussses (skwere), kj busses (satmar), bp-willm bus, 402 yerushalayim-bnei berak, all busses in bnei berak, modian, betaar, ashdod, busses to miron-tzefas, etc. this isn't a matter of eida chareides or kanoim or beis shemesh.

So lets make it clear to our own brethen, were against violence, against spitting, but were pro seperated busses in our communities without any force on others!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is something thats being misled by rabbi horowitz and alot of others

No. The goals of Rabbi Horowitz are the same as yours and mine, and every other ehrliche Yid. What he is opposed to. is the violence committed by those farrikte chayos and their intransigence in failing to admit that they overreacted, and subsequent apology, which all cause a tremendous chillul Hashem.

53

 Jan 02, 2012 at 10:57 AM bigwheeel Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

Sorry Rabbi Horowitz, I hate to be cynical but this tznius issue is going to be a fight until Moshiach comes. Its very simple and I cant believe you dont see the problem. The problem is every one has their red line. One persons red line is not to put women into the newspaper. one persons red line is to have segregated buses. Ones persons red line is to wear seamed stockings. I'm chasidish my daughters wear tights at 3 years old yet someone told my wife once were not "chasidish " because im not makpid on beige stockings. Do you see where i'm going with this. The extremists have their red line and they aren't moving it because the media or politicians are making a fuss, they will just keep on fighting.

But all normal people's red line is violence. In all the generations past and today there isn't one Posek who says spitting on an 8 year old girl is OK al pi halacha. If someone's red line does not stop them from committing violence, then they are common criminals, no matter what their stated goals are. And they deserve to be treated as such.

54

 Jan 02, 2012 at 11:34 AM MosheHalevi Says:

I can not support or condone the beating of any Jew, or spitting on any girl whether religious or Chiloni, whether wearing Shtramel or a tank top. I have yet to meet anybody who became a Shomer Shabat because he was beaten up or any woman that covered her hair because she was spat on or was called a whore. I think it is the responsibility of every Jew to condemn these actions of hatred and bigotry in the strongest possible terms. I also feel these bigots and hate mongers should be boycotted financially. When they come to our Shtiebel and Shuls for Hachnosas Kalah or support for their Kolels or institutions, they should be denied any help or support and should be treated with contempt for the pariahs they are.

55

 Jan 02, 2012 at 01:27 PM MAYERFREUND@YAHOO.COM Says:

Reply to #9  
yalili Says:

Do u please mind to tall me what rabonim run the eida

The hand picked by the rabonim before them.

56

 Jan 02, 2012 at 02:17 PM Avivamommy Says:

Great statement. Perhaps, in contrast to the horrible images being released, we can flood the media with images of normal Charedi families who do not stand for the violence and messages that a small percentage of cultists are making. The message could be "We, like 99% of Charedim respect humankind . Please do not stereotype and tarnish our collective image."

57

 Jan 02, 2012 at 02:37 PM MidwesternGuy Says:

Reply to #39  
Anonymous Says:

sorry to disagree with you. But I live in the real world not the dream world.

In the real world, people have to fight and be violent? You truly have no sense.

I can understand that you don't want to make shidduchim with me. Trust me, it's mutual. But that doesn't mean that you have to spit on or physically attack people you disagree with.

What's real-world about needing to fight?

58

 Jan 02, 2012 at 02:51 PM A Gentle Gentile Says:

Ladies and Gentlemen

Please permit me, a Gentile from Germany, to intrude on your time for a few seconds.

Naturally, the stories of near internecine warfare between various sections of the Jewish/Israeli society are to be seen on television and in newspapers all over the globe in general - in in Germany in particular.

I am a young German male, born in 1977, and I cannot understand why orthodox and religious Jews should dress themselves in konzentrationslager uniforms and wear yellow stars? In my country, such an action would be enough for such offenders to be tried and punished by law.

Perhaps I, as a German, must not say this, but such crimes not only bring disrespect on all victims of Nazionalsozialismus who suffered and were killed in the period 1933-1945, but also bring disgrace on the modern day Jews who do such things. Why? What good has it done them?

Young Germans are educated to respect the People of the Book. Why, therefore, do those people not show respect and reverence for their past?

Thank you for reading this. I wish all Jews, in Israel and the world, all good things for the future. May you all be happy and live together in harmony and peace in your Land.

59

 Jan 02, 2012 at 07:30 PM proud jew Says:

Reply to #58  
A Gentle Gentile Says:

Ladies and Gentlemen

Please permit me, a Gentile from Germany, to intrude on your time for a few seconds.

Naturally, the stories of near internecine warfare between various sections of the Jewish/Israeli society are to be seen on television and in newspapers all over the globe in general - in in Germany in particular.

I am a young German male, born in 1977, and I cannot understand why orthodox and religious Jews should dress themselves in konzentrationslager uniforms and wear yellow stars? In my country, such an action would be enough for such offenders to be tried and punished by law.

Perhaps I, as a German, must not say this, but such crimes not only bring disrespect on all victims of Nazionalsozialismus who suffered and were killed in the period 1933-1945, but also bring disgrace on the modern day Jews who do such things. Why? What good has it done them?

Young Germans are educated to respect the People of the Book. Why, therefore, do those people not show respect and reverence for their past?

Thank you for reading this. I wish all Jews, in Israel and the world, all good things for the future. May you all be happy and live together in harmony and peace in your Land.

Thank you for your post from Germany.
Since the media is the only place where most people glean their information ...please let it be known that the group in question that has the papers and ALL MEDIA jubilant to report any anti-chareidi report, is only a small fringe group of ultra-ultra-extremists...and that the majority of orthodox and ultra-orthodox people would never be a part of or condone such behavior. Even though the crowds may look vast on T.V. the majority are there, not in protest, but sort of as onlookers to the hooliganisms of that group.
Please know that we are a nation that lives with rules and guidelines outlined in our Holy Torah, and as a group we sometimes have some bad apples, but in no way do they speak for me or 99.9% or orthodox jewry. Please pass that on to your friends and people you know.It's just a shame that the media has a field day with all of this..and seems to portray the amount of people involved as a majority. THEY ARE BY ALL STANDARDS ISOLATED ....in their thinking and in their actions.

60

 Jan 02, 2012 at 07:52 PM An Ilui's Ainekel Says:

I am not my grandfather, but I think I can detect when something is amiss. Somehow #58 mentions that he is German too many times.. Methinks thou dost protest too much.. The expressions are not German at all, the language is not stilted at all. Not sure what the agenda is, and I am sure the person means well.. But we must always be completely truthful in all that we do..

61

 Jan 02, 2012 at 11:41 PM Darth_Zeidah Says:

Reply to #60  
An Ilui's Ainekel Says:

I am not my grandfather, but I think I can detect when something is amiss. Somehow #58 mentions that he is German too many times.. Methinks thou dost protest too much.. The expressions are not German at all, the language is not stilted at all. Not sure what the agenda is, and I am sure the person means well.. But we must always be completely truthful in all that we do..

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

62

 Jan 03, 2012 at 11:57 AM Leibel from London Says:

Reply to #60  
An Ilui's Ainekel Says:

I am not my grandfather, but I think I can detect when something is amiss. Somehow #58 mentions that he is German too many times.. Methinks thou dost protest too much.. The expressions are not German at all, the language is not stilted at all. Not sure what the agenda is, and I am sure the person means well.. But we must always be completely truthful in all that we do..

"The expressions are not German at all, the language is not stilted at all"

The person wrote in _English_, so why should "the expressions" be "German at all"? Whatever makes you think that the writer's language has to be "stilted"? Perhaps his/her English skills are such that he/she is capable of thinking in English.

As for your somewhat curmudgeonly complaint that "somehow #58 mentions that he is German too many times" what difference did that make?

Clearly, you still think in stereotypes.

It takes guts for a German who - for all we know - might be the grandchild of a card-carrying Nazi ימ"ש to have the courage to write to a Jewish-oriented web site (and a חרדי one to boot) about a subject which, after nearly 80 years, is still acutely distressing for us, as Jews.

But you, my dear, cynical Ainekel, appear to be far too blinkered and bigoted to recognize a kind and friendly gesture even if it was to hit you, square between the eyes.

No wonder the גויים hate us so much.

63

 Jan 04, 2012 at 11:48 AM Sunray Says:

I've just returned from several years in Jerusalem to the Western world. I'm familiar with the many factions coexisting there.

2-3 days before departure, a tour guide took a group through the Kotel Tunnels on Chanuka, retelling the Kamtsa story-and that besides the actual issue between the two, none of the chachamim or the people in the room stood up for the man being victimized.

1: The leadership must openly and clearly protest these behaviors, stating that they do not represent orthodoxy, the Torah, or their viewpoints or communities.
2: Whether the leadership gets the word out or not, we the people must clearly send the message across all fronts--including the media: Internet, Facebook, news articles online and off, that this does not in any way represent orthodox Judaism or even the majority view of the orthodox community, that we condemn these behaviors. If you do not use the internet (which means you wont be reading this) you can stand up for both the Torah and the community through your family, friends, etc.

If you want more input re: strategizing, you're welcome to be in touch. This is crucial and we are all called upon to do our part.
Blessings & peace above&below;

64

 Jan 04, 2012 at 11:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Halaivy Says:

That protest was called by the Chavrei Habedatz that are a Daas torah and we have a mitzvah (one of the 613)to listen to them Veasisah kechol asher yoruchah and that is even if they tell you on right that it's left and on left that it's right while Derocheha darcai noam means that even when it looks like violence to the average person that is the way to peace.
The Torah way is to listen to our gedolim and not to opinions of posters on a blog.

True; yet the word of the Gedolim may not reach the mainstream accurately because they do not connect with the internet or the mainstream news. The gedolim are no way, no how for these violent activities and they do not believe it represents their views. Those taking disruptive action are, themselves, not following the Gedolim.

65

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