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Kiryas Joel, NY - Chasidic History: Belz Sends Delegation To Graveside Of Satmar Rabbis To Ask Forgiveness

Published on: January 16, 2012 07:16 PM
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Surveillance video at the Kever of Satmar Rabbis shows Belz Chasidim praying at the tombstones on Jan 16 2012Surveillance video at the Kever of Satmar Rabbis shows Belz Chasidim praying at the tombstones on Jan 16 2012

Kiryas Joel, NY - VIN News has confirmed that a historical reconciliation appears to be underway between Satmar and Belz after decades of conflict and hostility.

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The gabbei of Belzer Rebbe, R’ Shimon Wolf Klein and a delegation of ten Belzer dayanim from all over the world paid a visit today to the kever of the Satmar Rebbe, R’ Yoel, zt’l, in Kiryas Joel, and asked for mechila from the Satmar Rebbe in the name of the Belzer Rebbe. 
Included in the Belzer delegation were R’ Tuvia Vetentshtein, R’ Moshe Shimon Bineth, R’ Asher Eckstein, R’ Shalom Pesach Langsam, R’ Wolf Ber Lerner, R’Mordechai Galitzky, R’ Shimon Wolf Klein, R’ Gavriel Menezer, R’ Yossel Langsam, R’ Moshe Yossel Moskowitz and R’ Ezriel Hecht.


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Read Comments (179)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:21 PM Secular Says:

Why didn't the Rebbe go himself?

2

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:21 PM Great1Thinker Says:

what a great Kidush Hashem

3

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:24 PM Halaivy Says:

The Belzer rebe is a great leader and is not ashamed to admit to mistakes don when he was younger even though he ment it all Leshem Shomayim at that time.

4

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:28 PM Facts1 Says:

Wonderful.

5

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Is he not required to ask Forgiveness in public or does this constitute a public request?

Just asking.

6

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:30 PM Barzilai Says:

Interesting that they don't seem to hold like the poskim brought in Shaarei Tziyun 606 sk 3, that asking for mechila should be done personally, not with an intermediary.

7

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:33 PM satmar Says:

We are sure that the satmar rabbi is moichel them bemchile gemirah. and kol hakoved to the belze rabbi he made a big kidush hashem...

8

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:33 PM chussid Says:

Sorry but he him self spoke bad so he should Come ask mechila himself not send ten dayanim. He himself should come over from israel and ask mechila

9

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:33 PM Mrs_Boro_Parker Says:

Moshiach is on the way.....

10

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:36 PM MosheM Says:

So Satmar gave up on the fight against Belz on the beis din, bechiros, hechsher, money from medine all for an apology for nastiness during that same fight?
Great to see them coming around for shulem!

11

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:38 PM sechelyoshor Says:

Pardon the ignorance but what exactly was Belz' sin? Starting a hechsher in Israel? I know there were some serious battles, in which IIRC Satmar ransacked the Belz shteble in Boro Park a few decades ago. I'm sure there was more. But what exactly was the "sin" that Belz is apologizing about?

12

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:39 PM Gopfan Says:

Wow! finally they saw their mistake.....

13

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:39 PM post4 Says:

קידוש השם

14

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:41 PM Insider Says:

Oh oh. Sholom bayis may just break out. There might even be ahavas chinom. Oh vey, what are we going to do ????
(by the way, the Satmar Rebbe and the Belzer Rebbe are brothers-in-law.

15

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:41 PM Briskerrav Says:

Not so sure about this. He had no right to go against the Gadol V'tzadik hador and then ask forgiveness.

16

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Why now? Who is behind?

17

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Thumbs up to belz... We admire your act....

18

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:47 PM PowerUp Says:

i must say im extremly impressed with the belzer rebba for doing this, a person his caliber admitting to a mistake should be a lesson to all of us. this is a big kidush hashem!!

19

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:48 PM Satmar Says:

its in plan both satmar rebbe's will make shulim with belzer rebbe next month, rav zalmen of williamsburg is flying to israel pr' bishalach for the toldos ahron - rav"d satmar wedding, & rav ahron from kiryas joel is flying to israel pr' shkulim.
history in our times, 1 day both satmars will also make piece...

20

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:50 PM bklyn Says:

Will belz stop to go to the becheres? Will they start to obey everything r' yoelish want? If not I don't see who in satmar can forgive in r' yoelishes (satamar's) name.

21

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:54 PM Anonymous Says:

What are they asking mechila for? They hold by their shita and Satmar holds by theirs. Belz didn't adopt the Vayoel Moshe. I don't get it. Belz has been friendly with the two Satmar groups for years,

22

 Jan 16, 2012 at 07:56 PM villyamsburger Says:

Let's hope the other afflicted chasidus will follow his foot steps of shulem and the geulah should come fast. We can't wait any longer we need moshiach now more then ever.
I'm not a belzer or a satmar but I'm definitely for shulem. I can't believe the world as low as it is we have gotten to see this. May hashem bring a moshiach soon in the mean time all the sick should have a refuah shlaima don't worry hold on moshiach is right here.

23

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:03 PM Monseyer Says:

Satmar has kept a close relationship with Gur even though they don't abide to the shita. Belz and Satmar had a personnel issue about opening a Beis Din and Kosher certification. I wonder if belz is giving up their Beis Din and Kosher certification for this pace treaty.

24

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:04 PM cdk Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

Is he not required to ask Forgiveness in public or does this constitute a public request?

Just asking.

How much more public can you be then this action being so publicized in the Jewish media?

25

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:05 PM Bpshomrim Says:

I can't believe all of you when it was the satmera who caused all the fights if some one didn't obey there demands nd they her the news who vandalized sues nd buses so I think there the ones ho need to apologize

26

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:08 PM Monseyboy Says:

Reply to #20  
bklyn Says:

Will belz stop to go to the becheres? Will they start to obey everything r' yoelish want? If not I don't see who in satmar can forgive in r' yoelishes (satamar's) name.

Um... You can ask mechila if you feel you should have showed more kavod to someone, even though you still disagree with they hold.

27

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:11 PM fasteddie Says:

go to see a goudel do these kind act to change the world.

28

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Asking forgiveness from someone who is no longer alive is not a Jewish concept.

29

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
sechelyoshor Says:

Pardon the ignorance but what exactly was Belz' sin? Starting a hechsher in Israel? I know there were some serious battles, in which IIRC Satmar ransacked the Belz shteble in Boro Park a few decades ago. I'm sure there was more. But what exactly was the "sin" that Belz is apologizing about?

as i heard they said "IF he was poigeia" because its a big if, he stood what was right, and now he is doing what satmar wants he should do for shulem to clompish show for the world...

30

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:13 PM Anonymous Says:

It would be very helpful to many VIN readers who don't follow the intramural politics of all the different chassidus to explain what the Belzer Rebbe is begging forgiveness for. What did he do to the Satmar? This news story is a bit confusing since it says that these 10 Belzer guys drove out from BP to Monsey to "beg forgiveness" but doesn't explain why much less why the Belzer rebbe himself stayed home.

31

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Wow, this is great news.
They both deserve thumbs up, the Belzer for asking Mechilah and the Satmer for accepting it, they will both need to deal with some older Chassidim that are not too happy with this.

32

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:27 PM some1 Says:

I heard once a good vurt (I think its from r' yankel galintzki); when we say oisay shulom in the end of shmoyne esreh, we go back 3 steps and bow to all 3 sides, thats the only way to make shulem.

33

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
chussid Says:

Sorry but he him self spoke bad so he should Come ask mechila himself not send ten dayanim. He himself should come over from israel and ask mechila

Wow your comment about someone who is asking Mechila in such a public way is so amazing not only is it idiotic but it is childish the way you try to insult in a back handed way. If I where you I would shake at the thought of appearing before Hashem Yitbrach he WILL judge you as you Judge others.
The HIDA Z'L" was 100% right our European brothers only know midat Ha Din unfortunately you should learn Midat Rahamim or again I tell youN You will be judged the same way.

So how about it? Grow up show the real Midot of our Fore Fathers and not the Midot of Esav

Baruch Hashem, I Thank G-d that I am not like you are now.

G-d willing you will change.

34

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Belza Rabba is not capable to travel himself otherwise I'm sure he would do it, he is ready to do anything for shulem.
The Bairach Moshe went to visit the belza rabba in 1978 and tried to convince him to adopt the shita of his uncle R' Yoel, the belza rabba told him I also have a uncle (R' Aron) and I am following his shita as I am continuing to build his chasidus and they had a very friendly Shmoose, the Bairech Moisha when he went out from The belza rabba he told the people around him "the belza rabba is right and I just had no words to convince him"
At the "shtieadiga tora" 1981 the after being terrerised by satmer and their affiliates belza rabba said some words against R' Yoel and this is on what he sent the dayunim to ask machila.
Of course he is not chaging his shita to satmer... They way he built his chasidus till now with the biggest succes wrating from all other chasides around,,,, why should he change?
Looking forward for mashiach!

35

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:35 PM A Lutvak Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Asking forgiveness from someone who is no longer alive is not a Jewish concept.

Typical Satmarer.. go learn Shulchan Aruch..סימן תר"ו סעיף ב
To those who question why the Rebbe didn't come by himself.. look in Mshn"b

36

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Asking forgiveness from someone who is no longer alive is not a Jewish concept.

You must think Shulchan Aruch is not Jewish - it says clear to bring a minyan to ask mechillah at a grave of someone you wronged after they die

37

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:40 PM Lodzker Says:

Here is what happened. I heard this from the House Bochur of the Belzer Rebbe R' Aharon ZT"L. In the 1940's the Satmar Ruv was Rav of Yerushalayim and zionist activity was making way for the zionist state in the holy land. The Satmar Ruv was calling for demonstrations and the like, while after 1948 was calling on Jews not to vote or partake from the zionists. At the same time, Rebbe Aharon of Belz ZT"L who was also the gadol hador in Jerusalem, was allowing the jews to vote and let the Aguda work with the zionists to some extents.
There was a rumor propagated by the Belzers and others that the Satmar Ruv was speaking ill against the Belzer Rebbe and speaking agisnt him. When the Satmar Rebbe heard this rumor against him, he sent two dayanim from the Eida to be Mochel him from the Belzer rebbe and explain that the Satmar Rebbe never intended to seem to speak against the Belzer Rebbes person. The Belzer rebbe sent these emmisaries back saying "You arent even satmar chassidim. let the Satmar rebbe send his own chassidim so I know its from him". So the Satmar rebbe sent his own gabboim. When they arrived, the Belzer chassidim did not let them enter the Belzer Rebbes room . to be cont

38

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:41 PM Anonymous Says:

This whole story shows which Rebbes are in control of their communities with still a drop of care for the future and youth of Klal Yisroel (and some yiras shomaim) and not driven by Gabuim, hate and money.
It's never too late..

39

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:43 PM Lodzker Says:

continued from previousely:

The belzer gaboim denied entry of the satmar gabboim to meet with the belzer rebbe. So, this was the beginning of the problems with satmar and belz. Ask any old time belzer, they know the story. Tehyll admit they were wrong.

the current belzer rebbe had issue with the satmar rebbes shitos and said some things in the early years. Baruch hashem shalom is being made. Not only here, but satmar and chabad and also Litvish world and chabad are doing better.

40

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Satmar Says:

its in plan both satmar rebbe's will make shulim with belzer rebbe next month, rav zalmen of williamsburg is flying to israel pr' bishalach for the toldos ahron - rav"d satmar wedding, & rav ahron from kiryas joel is flying to israel pr' shkulim.
history in our times, 1 day both satmars will also make piece...

"1 day both satmars will also make piece...”
You probably meant to say that one day they will take a piece out of one another...there is a real catch 22 operative here....they will never "make piece" until moishiach comes and moisiach won't come while there hateful fighting continues...otherwise you make a good point..

41

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:53 PM CommonSense Says:

Reply to #1  
Secular Says:

Why didn't the Rebbe go himself?

The Rebbe doesn't leave Israel anymore..

42

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:54 PM Anonymous Says:

As known from Aharon hakohens that you may say a lie to create Shalom and of course when making Shalom between such two big Chasidishe courts. The Belze Rebbe is ready to say a lie and ask for Mechilah on a sin he never did just to create Shalom on the world. A real Mekadesh Shem Shmayim Berabim

43

 Jan 16, 2012 at 08:59 PM Anonymous Says:

I guess MLK day had the right affect.

44

 Jan 16, 2012 at 09:01 PM Unasked_Question Says:

It seems from the comments & questions here that VIN readers are missing something in this story,

This step by Belz was not done because the Belze Ruv feels the need to ask Mechilleh. It was done because Satmer wanted this done by Belz as a pre-condition to "normalize" relations with Belz.

The Story in short:
A) Satmer & Belz had a major war
B) According to Satmer, De Belze ruv was -at a speech- "Pogeia" in the Koved of their Pre-Previous Rebbe, R' Yoel
C) Belze Rebbe is sick and tired of being in a "fight" -especially with his brother-in-law. He is eager to make "Peace"
D) The Satmere have a condition that before anything happens, Belz must "officially" ask Mechileh from R'Yoel
E) Belze Rebbe -Eager for Peace- gives in and sends a Minyen of Dayunim... because he is overly desperate to make "Shoulem"..

Dear friends;
It takes courage to do this when one feels that it's he has done wrong and thats the way to get it right.
But It takes much more courage to do it JUST TO APPEASE THE OTHER SIDE!!!

Reading the comments here, tells me how much courage it takes.
Instead of realizing the courage it takes, ppl ask "Why didn't he go himself"
OK.

45

 Jan 16, 2012 at 09:10 PM FirshtRadzivil Says:

Reply to #42  
Anonymous Says:

As known from Aharon hakohens that you may say a lie to create Shalom and of course when making Shalom between such two big Chasidishe courts. The Belze Rebbe is ready to say a lie and ask for Mechilah on a sin he never did just to create Shalom on the world. A real Mekadesh Shem Shmayim Berabim

A Sin he didn't do ?
Speaking on an ISH ELOKIM KOODESH HIE

46

 Jan 16, 2012 at 09:30 PM FirshtRadzivil Says:

Reply to #37  
Lodzker Says:

Here is what happened. I heard this from the House Bochur of the Belzer Rebbe R' Aharon ZT"L. In the 1940's the Satmar Ruv was Rav of Yerushalayim and zionist activity was making way for the zionist state in the holy land. The Satmar Ruv was calling for demonstrations and the like, while after 1948 was calling on Jews not to vote or partake from the zionists. At the same time, Rebbe Aharon of Belz ZT"L who was also the gadol hador in Jerusalem, was allowing the jews to vote and let the Aguda work with the zionists to some extents.
There was a rumor propagated by the Belzers and others that the Satmar Ruv was speaking ill against the Belzer Rebbe and speaking agisnt him. When the Satmar Rebbe heard this rumor against him, he sent two dayanim from the Eida to be Mochel him from the Belzer rebbe and explain that the Satmar Rebbe never intended to seem to speak against the Belzer Rebbes person. The Belzer rebbe sent these emmisaries back saying "You arent even satmar chassidim. let the Satmar rebbe send his own chassidim so I know its from him". So the Satmar rebbe sent his own gabboim. When they arrived, the Belzer chassidim did not let them enter the Belzer Rebbes room . to be cont

A Sheine Baba Mase ,
Stamar Rabbi ZTZL thought of R Aron Belzer as an ISH ELOIKIM ,He went himself to R Aron ZL to convince him against the Bechiros ,
Now 33 Years later the Belzer Rabbi sees that Satmar Rabbi knew what he is talking that the tziyonim won't let ehrliche yiden live in EY so he saw that Riach Hakodesh Medaber Mitoichi

47

 Jan 16, 2012 at 09:34 PM chosid Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Asking forgiveness from someone who is no longer alive is not a Jewish concept.

Tell that to Rabbeinu Yonah.

48

 Jan 16, 2012 at 09:35 PM ShatzMatz Says:

It is politically convenient for Reb Aron to make peace with Belz. Since the Eida officially recognized Reb Zalmen as Satmar rebbe. Also, he is a brother-in-law with the Belze rebbe. From what I understand, the two sister rebbetzins always kept close, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was they who mediated this peace treaty between their husbands.

49

 Jan 16, 2012 at 09:36 PM Unasked_Question Says:

Reply to #37  
Lodzker Says:

Here is what happened. I heard this from the House Bochur of the Belzer Rebbe R' Aharon ZT"L. In the 1940's the Satmar Ruv was Rav of Yerushalayim and zionist activity was making way for the zionist state in the holy land. The Satmar Ruv was calling for demonstrations and the like, while after 1948 was calling on Jews not to vote or partake from the zionists. At the same time, Rebbe Aharon of Belz ZT"L who was also the gadol hador in Jerusalem, was allowing the jews to vote and let the Aguda work with the zionists to some extents.
There was a rumor propagated by the Belzers and others that the Satmar Ruv was speaking ill against the Belzer Rebbe and speaking agisnt him. When the Satmar Rebbe heard this rumor against him, he sent two dayanim from the Eida to be Mochel him from the Belzer rebbe and explain that the Satmar Rebbe never intended to seem to speak against the Belzer Rebbes person. The Belzer rebbe sent these emmisaries back saying "You arent even satmar chassidim. let the Satmar rebbe send his own chassidim so I know its from him". So the Satmar rebbe sent his own gabboim. When they arrived, the Belzer chassidim did not let them enter the Belzer Rebbes room . to be cont

I dont know where you get your stories from, but - go put it mildly - you are misinformed... the inyen is very different....

I do not wanna start now with what happend between R'yoel and reb aron zy"u....please do not drag us into this. It wont add kvod shoumayim.

Lets just leave it at the current -positive- developments.

50

 Jan 16, 2012 at 09:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
FirshtRadzivil Says:

A Sheine Baba Mase ,
Stamar Rabbi ZTZL thought of R Aron Belzer as an ISH ELOIKIM ,He went himself to R Aron ZL to convince him against the Bechiros ,
Now 33 Years later the Belzer Rabbi sees that Satmar Rabbi knew what he is talking that the tziyonim won't let ehrliche yiden live in EY so he saw that Riach Hakodesh Medaber Mitoichi

were you ever in eretz yisroel???
It doesn't look like!
There is thousands of bnei torah bnei aliyeh there, you living in wilitown reading der blatt in der yid and you think that they are shmading all the yiden there. Cont.

51

 Jan 16, 2012 at 09:46 PM Whats the Big Deal? Says:

Reply to #44  
Unasked_Question Says:

It seems from the comments & questions here that VIN readers are missing something in this story,

This step by Belz was not done because the Belze Ruv feels the need to ask Mechilleh. It was done because Satmer wanted this done by Belz as a pre-condition to "normalize" relations with Belz.

The Story in short:
A) Satmer & Belz had a major war
B) According to Satmer, De Belze ruv was -at a speech- "Pogeia" in the Koved of their Pre-Previous Rebbe, R' Yoel
C) Belze Rebbe is sick and tired of being in a "fight" -especially with his brother-in-law. He is eager to make "Peace"
D) The Satmere have a condition that before anything happens, Belz must "officially" ask Mechileh from R'Yoel
E) Belze Rebbe -Eager for Peace- gives in and sends a Minyen of Dayunim... because he is overly desperate to make "Shoulem"..

Dear friends;
It takes courage to do this when one feels that it's he has done wrong and thats the way to get it right.
But It takes much more courage to do it JUST TO APPEASE THE OTHER SIDE!!!

Reading the comments here, tells me how much courage it takes.
Instead of realizing the courage it takes, ppl ask "Why didn't he go himself"
OK.

It's business as usual.

In business, people will say anything to anyone if the deal is right and there is what to be gained from the spectacle.

Why do all naive people believe everything they see at face value?

Pesi Yaamin Lechol Davar

52

 Jan 16, 2012 at 09:50 PM Unasked_Question Says:

Reply to #46  
FirshtRadzivil Says:

A Sheine Baba Mase ,
Stamar Rabbi ZTZL thought of R Aron Belzer as an ISH ELOIKIM ,He went himself to R Aron ZL to convince him against the Bechiros ,
Now 33 Years later the Belzer Rabbi sees that Satmar Rabbi knew what he is talking that the tziyonim won't let ehrliche yiden live in EY so he saw that Riach Hakodesh Medaber Mitoichi

I dont kow if you are serious or sarcastic...

Do you really think that this has anything to do with de "tziyonim"?
Do you really think that Belze ruv will join satmer regarding voting, going to the koisel or anything else ?
Do you really think that de belze ruv realyzed that de satmer ruv was right w de shiteh and ren aron,

53

 Jan 16, 2012 at 09:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
FirshtRadzivil Says:

A Sheine Baba Mase ,
Stamar Rabbi ZTZL thought of R Aron Belzer as an ISH ELOIKIM ,He went himself to R Aron ZL to convince him against the Bechiros ,
Now 33 Years later the Belzer Rabbi sees that Satmar Rabbi knew what he is talking that the tziyonim won't let ehrliche yiden live in EY so he saw that Riach Hakodesh Medaber Mitoichi

Cont.
You know how many yiddishe kinder come back daily to torah in mitzvohs???
If rabbi yeshiyeh m'belze would be able to come out of his kever and see that for a few cents we could make daily balei tshuvos, he would dance on the streets.
Belzer rabbi and krukever ruv came out against tziyonim when every house had a upgefurene yid nebech, daily were yidden more mechalel shabbos. Cont.

54

 Jan 16, 2012 at 09:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
FirshtRadzivil Says:

A Sheine Baba Mase ,
Stamar Rabbi ZTZL thought of R Aron Belzer as an ISH ELOIKIM ,He went himself to R Aron ZL to convince him against the Bechiros ,
Now 33 Years later the Belzer Rabbi sees that Satmar Rabbi knew what he is talking that the tziyonim won't let ehrliche yiden live in EY so he saw that Riach Hakodesh Medaber Mitoichi

Who is making you not to do toreh umitzves???
For this reason, satmer will blow up every story in EY like they are reshuyim to prove that we cant live there.
Get real, make a tour arround in EY, all the yeshivos, all the kollelim, there are the real bnei aleiyeh

55

 Jan 16, 2012 at 10:22 PM haskail Says:

This is an historic event,but one has to
Wonder if this is really for kovod shomayim.
Why don't these Rebbes,start at home turf
To make Sholom.
Reb aharon,with reb zalmen leib,and Belz w/
Machnivke.
This smells more self interest politics.

holom

56

 Jan 16, 2012 at 10:39 PM Anonymous Says:

i am so touched and moved kol hakuvod " talmidei chchumin marbin shulem beolum"

58

 Jan 16, 2012 at 10:58 PM loving mom Says:

Reply to #44  
Unasked_Question Says:

It seems from the comments & questions here that VIN readers are missing something in this story,

This step by Belz was not done because the Belze Ruv feels the need to ask Mechilleh. It was done because Satmer wanted this done by Belz as a pre-condition to "normalize" relations with Belz.

The Story in short:
A) Satmer & Belz had a major war
B) According to Satmer, De Belze ruv was -at a speech- "Pogeia" in the Koved of their Pre-Previous Rebbe, R' Yoel
C) Belze Rebbe is sick and tired of being in a "fight" -especially with his brother-in-law. He is eager to make "Peace"
D) The Satmere have a condition that before anything happens, Belz must "officially" ask Mechileh from R'Yoel
E) Belze Rebbe -Eager for Peace- gives in and sends a Minyen of Dayunim... because he is overly desperate to make "Shoulem"..

Dear friends;
It takes courage to do this when one feels that it's he has done wrong and thats the way to get it right.
But It takes much more courage to do it JUST TO APPEASE THE OTHER SIDE!!!

Reading the comments here, tells me how much courage it takes.
Instead of realizing the courage it takes, ppl ask "Why didn't he go himself"
OK.

he spoke out against chasam sofer v'talmidov which is the base of satmar hashkufe meaning that we cant say nishtanee hasmanim that when time goes, an years are passing by, yideshkiet is also chaning, because we have an old father in haven that will never change,an torah is not changing, the biggest split in klal yisroel the last 200 years was the dividing the orthodox from the reform done by talmidy chasam sofer, this is what v'yoel moshe an satmar is all about,satmar is not a chasidus its continuation of orthodox yideshkiet, he should revers his steps leading belz against this shite, then he could ask mchila from all talmidy chasam sofer,

59

 Jan 16, 2012 at 10:59 PM Lodzker Says:

Reply to #49  
Unasked_Question Says:

I dont know where you get your stories from, but - go put it mildly - you are misinformed... the inyen is very different....

I do not wanna start now with what happend between R'yoel and reb aron zy"u....please do not drag us into this. It wont add kvod shoumayim.

Lets just leave it at the current -positive- developments.

I heard the story from R' Herschler who was a hoiz bucher of R Aron for a time in the 40's and maintained a close relationship for the years. I have heard the story since from other belzers (though changing the nuiance a bit as to who went to represent satmar) but the story is the same. YOU are misinformed, as I heard this story from someone who was there at the time thank you very much.

60

 Jan 16, 2012 at 11:24 PM IMHOpinion Says:

#55- Haskail

Oy, belz versus Machnovke, and belz versus satmar is 2 diff worlds.

It's like heavens and earths.

You should know both histories before you ask questions.

61

 Jan 16, 2012 at 11:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Satmar Says:

its in plan both satmar rebbe's will make shulim with belzer rebbe next month, rav zalmen of williamsburg is flying to israel pr' bishalach for the toldos ahron - rav"d satmar wedding, & rav ahron from kiryas joel is flying to israel pr' shkulim.
history in our times, 1 day both satmars will also make piece...

You mean PEACE....for crying out loud!

62

 Jan 16, 2012 at 11:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

What are they asking mechila for? They hold by their shita and Satmar holds by theirs. Belz didn't adopt the Vayoel Moshe. I don't get it. Belz has been friendly with the two Satmar groups for years,

He spoke "against" the Rebbe in public when he was a young Rebbe and he is asking for Mechila..it does not mean that he has to accept the shita. He is asking for mechila for the wrong committed about denegrating him in public...before his congregation.

63

 Jan 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Asking forgiveness from someone who is no longer alive is not a Jewish concept.

Are you kidding me...not a jewish concept???
Check Hilchos Erev Yom Kippur about asking forgiveness from people alive or passed on....

65

 Jan 17, 2012 at 12:57 AM Unasked_Question Says:

Reply to #58  
loving mom Says:

he spoke out against chasam sofer v'talmidov which is the base of satmar hashkufe meaning that we cant say nishtanee hasmanim that when time goes, an years are passing by, yideshkiet is also chaning, because we have an old father in haven that will never change,an torah is not changing, the biggest split in klal yisroel the last 200 years was the dividing the orthodox from the reform done by talmidy chasam sofer, this is what v'yoel moshe an satmar is all about,satmar is not a chasidus its continuation of orthodox yideshkiet, he should revers his steps leading belz against this shite, then he could ask mchila from all talmidy chasam sofer,

He spoke out against de chasam sofer ???
And you chose to believe that....

What really strikes me, Is how you write:
" satmar is not a chasidus its continuation of orthodox yideshkiet, he should revers his steps leading belz against this shite"

Do u understand what you wrote ?
Satmer is a continuation of orthodox yideshkait..
Can you please tell me what the rest of the frum world is continuing?
What are Gur, Belz, Viznitz, Chabad,tzanz, stolin, and most other chassidim continuing ?
What is Rav ovadyah and the sfardim continuing ?
what is Rav elyashiv, Reb chayim, and all the litvishe continuing?

Last time I checked all of the above are continuing orthodox yidishkeit!

Are you aware that the vast majority of frum yidden are not at all holding w the satmer shiteh ?

do u really think that for one to "continue orthodox yidishkeit" they must adopt the satmer shiteh?

I wouldnt think that anyone thinks so, even someone that never stepped foot outside williamsburg.

66

 Jan 17, 2012 at 01:02 AM reder Says:

Many years ago, when the Belzer Rebbe shlita was very young, he took the Satmarer Rebbe zt"l to task and said some awful things about him publicly.
In the interim there have been many attempts to rectify and reconciliate on the part of some prominent Belzer chasidim but never the by the Belzer Rebbe himself.
Although it is a very nice gesture to go to a kever to ask mechila, those Satmar chasidim who remember, will never accept this action in lieu of the Belzer Rebbe publicly admitting that what he said then against a godol many years his senior was wrong, and that he personally (not a delegation) is asking for mechila.
The Belzer Rebbetzin, a tzadeikes, (sister of the Satmarer Rebbetzin of Monroe) has many Satmar supporters who even go to her with kvitlach.
By the same token, there is no Satmar chosid from either side who would do the same with the Belzer Rebbe. The hurt and pain still lingers!

67

 Jan 17, 2012 at 01:03 AM Mark Levin Says:

Looks like the goons are continuing the war. You guys are a bunch of low life tipshim. THE WAR IS OVER!! Enough!! G'nig shoyn!!!!!


There are more important battles for klal Yisroel to fight!

68

 Jan 17, 2012 at 01:16 AM Unasked_Question Says:

Reply to #55  
haskail Says:

This is an historic event,but one has to
Wonder if this is really for kovod shomayim.
Why don't these Rebbes,start at home turf
To make Sholom.
Reb aharon,with reb zalmen leib,and Belz w/
Machnivke.
This smells more self interest politics.

holom

Yup... We better check it out again and again, hoping to get convinced at some point that its for business (what kind of business anyway...)

maybe , just maybe... We should spend our time, use our brain to find th

69

 Jan 17, 2012 at 01:31 AM Unasked_Question Says:

He makes you laugh?
Your ignorance makes me....

First of all , you have "chutzpah", using the word "chutzpah" on the belze ruv... ( I wonder how u would react to me using the word chutzpah to describe a very chushev rebbe who spoke against reb aron z"l. )

now, Where do u take this story that de belze ruv spoke against R'yoel when he was 18 years old ?

Are gou making this up as you type or did someone play a trick on you ?

70

 Jan 17, 2012 at 02:47 AM Michael in Seattle Says:

chussid,
Your words only prove the Chida's point.

72

 Jan 17, 2012 at 04:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
sechelyoshor Says:

Pardon the ignorance but what exactly was Belz' sin? Starting a hechsher in Israel? I know there were some serious battles, in which IIRC Satmar ransacked the Belz shteble in Boro Park a few decades ago. I'm sure there was more. But what exactly was the "sin" that Belz is apologizing about?

Pardoning your ignorance is not easy here, the sin was that rabbi rokeach spoke disrespectful about the gadol hador, whom previous tzadikim including rabbi rokeach's uncle reb aron held as the tzadik hador, a tzadik who 100 years ago older tzadikim trembled before him

73

 Jan 17, 2012 at 04:18 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Asking forgiveness from someone who is no longer alive is not a Jewish concept.

It is a Jewish concept. If you wrong somebody and he or she is now longer alive you take a minyan to the cemetery and ask for forgiveness.

74

 Jan 17, 2012 at 05:44 AM me-myself-my-shadow-and-I Says:

the Belzer Rebbe can't move. how do you expect him to fly? be realistic. it's amazing that even when למען השלום the Belzer Rebbe does לפנים משורת הדין just to please Satmars precondition to שלום and there are narrow headed people that want the fight to go on and on saying that the Rebbe must come down personally, ask forgiveness ברבים etc. we should all be dancing in there streets now that we were זוכה to see this happening in our lifetime. may Hashem look down and see what occupies his kinderlech these days and bring שלום ושלווה upon the entire world. אמן

75

 Jan 17, 2012 at 05:48 AM לצני הדור היו אומרים Says:

it's really for the benefit of the SATMAR Rebbe to make שלום because משיח is scheduled to pass by the Belzer בית מדרש on the way to the בית המקדש and I'm sure the SATMAR Rebbe is gonna wanna come along

76

 Jan 17, 2012 at 07:00 AM CSLMoish Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

Wow your comment about someone who is asking Mechila in such a public way is so amazing not only is it idiotic but it is childish the way you try to insult in a back handed way. If I where you I would shake at the thought of appearing before Hashem Yitbrach he WILL judge you as you Judge others.
The HIDA Z'L" was 100% right our European brothers only know midat Ha Din unfortunately you should learn Midat Rahamim or again I tell youN You will be judged the same way.

So how about it? Grow up show the real Midot of our Fore Fathers and not the Midot of Esav

Baruch Hashem, I Thank G-d that I am not like you are now.

G-d willing you will change.

Hida was right?? Don't attack a segment of Jewery which is far more reightous than you are

77

 Jan 17, 2012 at 07:47 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #58  
loving mom Says:

he spoke out against chasam sofer v'talmidov which is the base of satmar hashkufe meaning that we cant say nishtanee hasmanim that when time goes, an years are passing by, yideshkiet is also chaning, because we have an old father in haven that will never change,an torah is not changing, the biggest split in klal yisroel the last 200 years was the dividing the orthodox from the reform done by talmidy chasam sofer, this is what v'yoel moshe an satmar is all about,satmar is not a chasidus its continuation of orthodox yideshkiet, he should revers his steps leading belz against this shite, then he could ask mchila from all talmidy chasam sofer,

Belzer ruv never spoke against the chasam sofer, get your facts straight, only said about the geshtupte gentz that was user in galitzye, never said a word on reb yoel neither on the chasam sofer

78

 Jan 17, 2012 at 07:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
haskail Says:

This is an historic event,but one has to
Wonder if this is really for kovod shomayim.
Why don't these Rebbes,start at home turf
To make Sholom.
Reb aharon,with reb zalmen leib,and Belz w/
Machnivke.
This smells more self interest politics.

holom

Belzer rabbi is also trying everything to make shulem with machnivke, if you really want to know.

79

 Jan 17, 2012 at 08:03 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
Lodzker Says:

I heard the story from R' Herschler who was a hoiz bucher of R Aron for a time in the 40's and maintained a close relationship for the years. I have heard the story since from other belzers (though changing the nuiance a bit as to who went to represent satmar) but the story is the same. YOU are misinformed, as I heard this story from someone who was there at the time thank you very much.

As somebody said before, you don't want to hear the real story, a hoizbucher in the 40's wasn't a hoizbucher then, better lets not discuss that times.

80

 Jan 17, 2012 at 08:26 AM Anonymous Says:

Facts;
Belzer rabbi never spoke against chasam sofer and never on reb yoel.
And those of you who are saying reb aron hold reb yoel a malech alokim, go over the facts what reb yoel said openly on reb aron, and what was happening then.

81

 Jan 17, 2012 at 08:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Very nice of you saying this on a gudol hador that is gets payed back with "gachalei resumim".
And for your information, belzer rabbi started this years ago, at least 10 years, before he got sick.

82

 Jan 17, 2012 at 08:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Surely if the Belzer Rebbe sent his representatives to speak IN HIS NAME that's the same as if he came from EY himself? He sent a minyan...why isn't that good enough?

I wish the "misnagdim" would do the same for the abuse they heaped on the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT"L, especially after Gimmel Tammuz.. How about (l'havdil) NK (an offshoot of Satmar??) apologizing for verbally and physically attacking other Jews? What about Bobov vs. Bobov?

The list can go on and on. Nevertheless, this is a wonderful huge step toward peace amongst Klal Yisrael as a whole. Maybe the rest of the Klal will take heed and use this as a springboard to bringing true sholom to all factions.

83

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:07 AM sane Says:

Can someone explain exactly what it is they were fighting about?

84

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:14 AM Rational Says:

We can't rationalize. The action in itself is noteworthy in historic proportions. However its not necessarily an admission of guilt.

85

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:16 AM Unasked_Question Says:

You write:
" I'm suprised no one is stating the obvious. "

Maybe because the readers here are adults, or at least healthy teens.

Its obvious from your comment that -whoever wrote it- is a kid and not a smart one.
Sorry if you are in the mood of enciting some action here with such outrages comments. Try it at school.

86

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:16 AM CommonSense Says:

First of all..he was 32 not 18.

Second of all he was Belzer Ruv! Once you become the leader of a community then age is no longer an issue. You need to represent your community.

If a young president goes to war against an old despot is it Chitzpeh??

87

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:31 AM RalphWaldoEmerson Says:

Isn't it great Kiddush hashem that they can reconciliate after only forty years?

88

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:46 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #85  
Unasked_Question Says:

You write:
" I'm suprised no one is stating the obvious. "

Maybe because the readers here are adults, or at least healthy teens.

Its obvious from your comment that -whoever wrote it- is a kid and not a smart one.
Sorry if you are in the mood of enciting some action here with such outrages comments. Try it at school.

incite....not encite

89

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:47 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #86  
CommonSense Says:

First of all..he was 32 not 18.

Second of all he was Belzer Ruv! Once you become the leader of a community then age is no longer an issue. You need to represent your community.

If a young president goes to war against an old despot is it Chitzpeh??

How do you compare "war" to lack of respect??I don't get you!!!!!!

90

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:57 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Asking forgiveness from someone who is no longer alive is not a Jewish concept.

It's actually mentioned in the rishoinim and in shulchan oruch. Learn before you post.

91

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:03 AM chussid Says:

Reply to #86  
CommonSense Says:

First of all..he was 32 not 18.

Second of all he was Belzer Ruv! Once you become the leader of a community then age is no longer an issue. You need to represent your community.

If a young president goes to war against an old despot is it Chitzpeh??

something must be wrong with u or u didnt think it through all the way! U think that someone like the kretchnefer who would talk againt rav aliashev is a normal thing? Cause hes also a leader? Gimmie a break. The fact that he was a tzadik that was a holocast surviver and did everything in the world for yiddishkeit cant come a young rebbe with no expirence of nothing and start talking against him.

92

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:08 AM yosefben Says:

To ALL talkbacks: SO WHAT!! Re-read through this junk and we all see why HKBH has not brought the Tru Redemption yet. We all should be thanking HaShem for such big blessing brought by Satmar and Belz regardless of selly nuances.

93

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:10 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #86  
CommonSense Says:

First of all..he was 32 not 18.

Second of all he was Belzer Ruv! Once you become the leader of a community then age is no longer an issue. You need to represent your community.

If a young president goes to war against an old despot is it Chitzpeh??

I didn't know that a president and a rebe are the same...

94

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:12 AM Cadd9 Says:

This is really great. Now all we need is for a delegation to ask mechila from Reb Moshe Feinstien, the Klausenberger Rav, Reb Abishel Spinka etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

95

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:28 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #80  
Anonymous Says:

Facts;
Belzer rabbi never spoke against chasam sofer and never on reb yoel.
And those of you who are saying reb aron hold reb yoel a malech alokim, go over the facts what reb yoel said openly on reb aron, and what was happening then.

Is is known that the bilgreier was in belgium in the belzer talmud torah he met a child who was a relative of the satmer rebbe zt"l, and he told him my brother considers the satmer ruv tzadik hador, and the respect satmer ruv had for reb aron is legendary, it is known that he told the satmer rosh yeshivah at the time (rav shik) to give the bochrim money to travel to tel aviv to reb aron twice a year, the satmer rebbe NEVER said a disrespectful against reb aron

96

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:29 AM Letsberational Says:

Most of you are very misinformed. The Belzer Rav never attacked the Satmar Rav personaly. He was standing up for the Kavod of his uncle Reb Ahron of Belz who was the Gadol Hador who didn't agree with the shita of Satmar and he wasn't pleased that Satmar was forcing their shita on them. All he said was that Belz doesn't need Satmar to be mechanech them in Yidishkeit as Belz was tradionaly more frum than Satmar was. So lets chill out here. The entire issue was that maybe the tone was not derech eretzdik and of course Satmar blew it up. Let us not forget that Belz was being harased at the time. Kol Hakavod to the Belzer Rebbe for asking mechila. What a tzidkus of him and to make light of this by saying he should've come himself is rediculous as he is not well and can't travel.

97

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:30 AM Anonymous Says:

How does going to the grave of the Vayoel Moshe ztsl constitute reconciliation? Did the Satmar Rav stand up from the grave and bless Belz to continue being involved with the Medinah, elections, etc. etc.?? Give me a break!

98

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:34 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #72  
Anonymous Says:

Pardoning your ignorance is not easy here, the sin was that rabbi rokeach spoke disrespectful about the gadol hador, whom previous tzadikim including rabbi rokeach's uncle reb aron held as the tzadik hador, a tzadik who 100 years ago older tzadikim trembled before him

And pardoning "your" ignorance is harder than "not easy"....

"The sin was"
It’s truly impressive how u have such a deep & clear understanding of the Belze ruv’s sins.

"rabbi rokeach spoke disrespectful "
I’m not sure which “Rabbi Rokeach” u refer to, is it Reb Aron z”l, the tzadik against whom Rabbi Teitelbaum spoke at the famous speech?
Is it Reb Aron z”l who said that he is not mochel anyone that went to Rabbi Teitelbaum’s speech ?

"about the gadol hador"
Would u please chare w us how you chose your nominee as “the” gadol hador, at a time when there was: The Chazon Ish, R’ Moishe Feinstein, R’ Aron Kutler, R’ Aron belz, The Bais Yisroel, Klauzunburger ruv, Tshibiner ruv and more

"whom previous tzadikim including rabbi rokeach's uncle reb aron held as the tzadik hador"
I’m not even asking how you are so informed about what “rabbi rokeach's uncle” held. You truly need to recheck your facts.

"a tzadik who 100 years ago older tzadikim trembled before him ”
FYI: 100 years ago Rabbi Teitelbaum he was about 25 years old. With all the respect ,there was not much trembling... educate yourself on what was going on at those times.

Talk about ignorance…
I'm sick and tired. Bye!

99

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:35 AM Sol-Sol Says:

I never got the full picture of what happened back 40 yrs ago and I don't feel it makes a differents at this point. I'm sure the Hyliga Satmer Ruv Ztl' is Moichel with his whole heart. He is one of the few Tzadikim that we still feel in the Yiddisha atmosphere as if he's still alive. I don't know another Ruv from the previous Dor that is quoted so much in Torah & Yiddishkiet conversation. He was a Shtick Hyligkiet in every meaning of the word!!

100

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:45 AM after further review Says:

After further review of all the above comments...the winner is...the GIANTS (gedolim)! they will definately be menatzach against the mem tes ers (sharei timah) . this is the final psak. now all go back to your studies.

101

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:49 AM sane Says:

Even with 99 posts I am still clueless as to what the fuss was all about. In light of all the truly important issues we face, it would appear to all be childish.

102

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:51 AM CommonSense Says:

Reply to #93  
Anonymous Says:

I didn't know that a president and a rebe are the same...

Theyre the same in that they represent their community and need to defend the interests of their community regardless of age.

Is that so hard to understand?

103

 Jan 17, 2012 at 11:00 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #95  
Anonymous Says:

Is is known that the bilgreier was in belgium in the belzer talmud torah he met a child who was a relative of the satmer rebbe zt"l, and he told him my brother considers the satmer ruv tzadik hador, and the respect satmer ruv had for reb aron is legendary, it is known that he told the satmer rosh yeshivah at the time (rav shik) to give the bochrim money to travel to tel aviv to reb aron twice a year, the satmer rebbe NEVER said a disrespectful against reb aron

There was always tremendous resentment in the Belz camp at the fact that..before the war all the Hungarian Rebbelech were Belzer Chasidim and suddenly Belz was decimated and the Tzadik R' Aron was suddenly being pushed around by the largely Hungarian Eida and Satmar. He refused to change the way he dressed..he insisted on living in Tel Aviv and sent his chasidim to go vote.
It was only after the present Rebbe became Rebbe that they started really putting pressure on him...and he decided to push back and restore the honor of Belz and break the monopoly that the Eida had on running things in Yerushalayim.
Incidentally he had the blessing on both Rav Elyashev and Rav Shloima Zalman but refused to publicize it heeding to their requests.

What was so radical back then is so clearly understood now..that every community is entitled to go in their own Hashkafa and create Batei Dinim etc.

104

 Jan 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM MosheM Says:

Bottom line: Belzer Ruv will do anything for peace even if it means apologizing to people that instigated a fight trying to take over klal yisrael. Kol Hakavod!

105

 Jan 17, 2012 at 11:40 AM Not everything you know Says:

Reply to #66  
reder Says:

Many years ago, when the Belzer Rebbe shlita was very young, he took the Satmarer Rebbe zt"l to task and said some awful things about him publicly.
In the interim there have been many attempts to rectify and reconciliate on the part of some prominent Belzer chasidim but never the by the Belzer Rebbe himself.
Although it is a very nice gesture to go to a kever to ask mechila, those Satmar chasidim who remember, will never accept this action in lieu of the Belzer Rebbe publicly admitting that what he said then against a godol many years his senior was wrong, and that he personally (not a delegation) is asking for mechila.
The Belzer Rebbetzin, a tzadeikes, (sister of the Satmarer Rebbetzin of Monroe) has many Satmar supporters who even go to her with kvitlach.
By the same token, there is no Satmar chosid from either side who would do the same with the Belzer Rebbe. The hurt and pain still lingers!

By the way there are a lot of Satmar chasidim who do go to the Belze reabbi with a Kevitol not everything you know.

106

 Jan 17, 2012 at 11:42 AM UriLevi Says:

Reply to #46  
FirshtRadzivil Says:

A Sheine Baba Mase ,
Stamar Rabbi ZTZL thought of R Aron Belzer as an ISH ELOIKIM ,He went himself to R Aron ZL to convince him against the Bechiros ,
Now 33 Years later the Belzer Rabbi sees that Satmar Rabbi knew what he is talking that the tziyonim won't let ehrliche yiden live in EY so he saw that Riach Hakodesh Medaber Mitoichi

Reb Yid you just don't get It. You really don't. I feel sorry for you. How far will your Milchama against the"Tziyoinim" go. How about Yeshivas Kerem B'Yavmeh and all other great ehrlich yidden learning in "Tziyoinishe" Yeshivahs. Even Hesder Yeshivahs, let alone the great Kiruv Yeshivos in Eretz Yisrael , who although are more Chareidi in their orientation, work closely with "The Tziyoynim". You really need major introspection. In yiddishkeit Chesed trumps Emes. That's why Chesed is always said before Emes. Get with program. Please!!!

107

 Jan 17, 2012 at 11:53 AM MAYERFREUND Says:

Will this start a new business for travel agents to have minunim travel around from every were in the whole world to every beis hachayim with plains boats and buses to ask mechila from others?

108

 Jan 17, 2012 at 12:00 PM loving mom Says:

Reply to #65  
Unasked_Question Says:

He spoke out against de chasam sofer ???
And you chose to believe that....

What really strikes me, Is how you write:
" satmar is not a chasidus its continuation of orthodox yideshkiet, he should revers his steps leading belz against this shite"

Do u understand what you wrote ?
Satmer is a continuation of orthodox yideshkait..
Can you please tell me what the rest of the frum world is continuing?
What are Gur, Belz, Viznitz, Chabad,tzanz, stolin, and most other chassidim continuing ?
What is Rav ovadyah and the sfardim continuing ?
what is Rav elyashiv, Reb chayim, and all the litvishe continuing?

Last time I checked all of the above are continuing orthodox yidishkeit!

Are you aware that the vast majority of frum yidden are not at all holding w the satmer shiteh ?

do u really think that for one to "continue orthodox yidishkeit" they must adopt the satmer shiteh?

I wouldnt think that anyone thinks so, even someone that never stepped foot outside williamsburg.

I did not chose to believe that, i heard the tape years ago,i was up trowing from it,

109

 Jan 17, 2012 at 12:00 PM IMHOpinion Says:

Continue fighting brothers here on VIN.

It is precisely what the Belzer Rav tried to accomplish when wanting to make Shalom now....

110

 Jan 17, 2012 at 12:15 PM sechelyoshor Says:

You know, I've been mulling over all of these comments. Being as that I am not chassidish, although I do have some pretty chassidishe relatives, from Belz and Satmar, I must say that this whole conversation is silly. Here's what it sounds like to someone who learned in Litvish yeshivos:
Q. What happened?
-The Belzer Rebbe insulted the Satmar Ruv about politics/hashkafa/leaving the Eida/who knows, who remembers...
-which Satmar Ruv?
-which Belzer Rebbe
-the godol hador feared by all
-oh really, what do you know about who is a gadol?
- your version of what happened is wrong, my version is right
- wrong, my version is right because I know the hoiz bocher who heard it himself!
-impossible, that hoiz bochur was my friend who verified the story!!
-well you're wrong anyhow, and the Belzer Rebbe was young and insulted the Satmar Ruv and he should crawl on his hands and knees to the kever and ask mechilla himself

Get the picture? If you are trying to even fake being civil, if this was supposed to be about Shalom, you all have a long. long way to go.

Fellas, stop playing the "my rebbe is better than your rebbe" "my branch of chassidus is better than yours" game. You really appear silly.

111

 Jan 17, 2012 at 01:05 PM Anonymous Says:

What exactly is wrong with the Belzer Rebbe? How sick is he? He's a relatively young person!

112

 Jan 17, 2012 at 01:31 PM avade Says:

quit the fighting kids.

113

 Jan 17, 2012 at 01:37 PM reder Says:

Reply to #96  
Letsberational Says:

Most of you are very misinformed. The Belzer Rav never attacked the Satmar Rav personaly. He was standing up for the Kavod of his uncle Reb Ahron of Belz who was the Gadol Hador who didn't agree with the shita of Satmar and he wasn't pleased that Satmar was forcing their shita on them. All he said was that Belz doesn't need Satmar to be mechanech them in Yidishkeit as Belz was tradionaly more frum than Satmar was. So lets chill out here. The entire issue was that maybe the tone was not derech eretzdik and of course Satmar blew it up. Let us not forget that Belz was being harased at the time. Kol Hakavod to the Belzer Rebbe for asking mechila. What a tzidkus of him and to make light of this by saying he should've come himself is rediculous as he is not well and can't travel.

With all due respect, the Belzer Rebbe shlita did attack the Satmarer Rebbe zt"l personally. Had it been just an issue regarding shita then this whole event would not be taking place.
Different halachic interpretations between gedoilim go back to our rishoinim. Not everybody agreed with the Satmarer Rebbe's fiery opinions; but despite that, no other American godul since, has had such a levaye as he did. The respect he garnered both by litvaks and other Chasidim alike cannot be denied.
Nobody is asking the Belzer Rebbe to come to Monroe personally, but if he truly wants to express repentance, all he has to do is publicly address his large and loyal kehilla in Yerushalayim and the message will resonate all over the world!

114

 Jan 17, 2012 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #111  
Anonymous Says:

What exactly is wrong with the Belzer Rebbe? How sick is he? He's a relatively young person!

The heilege Belz rebbe is not sick....Rav Yissocher Dov simply has a policy of not leaving EY and it would be more appropriate for the Satmar rebbe to come to visit him in Kiryas Belz so he can express regret for whatever words may have offended rav yolish generations ago.

115

 Jan 17, 2012 at 02:19 PM the chuchom Says:

Reply to #113  
reder Says:

With all due respect, the Belzer Rebbe shlita did attack the Satmarer Rebbe zt"l personally. Had it been just an issue regarding shita then this whole event would not be taking place.
Different halachic interpretations between gedoilim go back to our rishoinim. Not everybody agreed with the Satmarer Rebbe's fiery opinions; but despite that, no other American godul since, has had such a levaye as he did. The respect he garnered both by litvaks and other Chasidim alike cannot be denied.
Nobody is asking the Belzer Rebbe to come to Monroe personally, but if he truly wants to express repentance, all he has to do is publicly address his large and loyal kehilla in Yerushalayim and the message will resonate all over the world!

Well said... But the fact is that the Satmer Ruv spoke up against the Belzer Ruv Reb Aron when he went to E'y 1955 who was the chasidishe godol those days. The fact is that when Reb Aron send the Pupa rav to ask to make sholom the Satmar Rebbe didn't respond. (ask around in Pupa they will tell you everything) Satmar Rebbe previus and present spoke against alot of rabonim and didnt go up to there kever nor did they send there representative to other kevorim. Now that the Belzer Rebbe send his people, look at it as a positive note

116

 Jan 17, 2012 at 02:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #58  
loving mom Says:

he spoke out against chasam sofer v'talmidov which is the base of satmar hashkufe meaning that we cant say nishtanee hasmanim that when time goes, an years are passing by, yideshkiet is also chaning, because we have an old father in haven that will never change,an torah is not changing, the biggest split in klal yisroel the last 200 years was the dividing the orthodox from the reform done by talmidy chasam sofer, this is what v'yoel moshe an satmar is all about,satmar is not a chasidus its continuation of orthodox yideshkiet, he should revers his steps leading belz against this shite, then he could ask mchila from all talmidy chasam sofer,

???is that the base for Sarmar hashkofa??Chasam sofars son Reb Shimon was Ruv in Krakov. He with Belzer Ruv established Machsikei Hadas, and that was NOT the same shita as Satmar. There was no tielung in Poland as there was in Hungary, they sat in the same kehillos as the reform and "fought from inside". check your facts.None of the gedolim from that generation went along with the Satmar rebbe with his shita. I had the zchia ti daven in Belz a couple years ago, they gave me a aliya as I was looking what the Belzer Rebbe was doing ben haprokim...yes he was learning Chasam Sofar..I learnd then that the Rebbe learns Chasam Sofar every Shabbos. so if someone has to apologize its Satmar for puting so much hate between klal Yisroel all those years. I have nothing against the Satmar ruv chas v'sholom I"m just giving you a diffrent prespective

117

 Jan 17, 2012 at 02:57 PM haskail Says:

Belzer Rebbe,and Satmar Rebbe,are to be respected,for this step,that will hopefully,with Hashem's help lead to a Sholom.
Both Chasidus camps,have oiberchacumim,and machers,who don't appreciate this,as their Emunah is built on denigration of others.
The Rebbes had the courage to ignore them,that makes them respected Leaders,in Klal Yisoel.
Now the Litvish can learn something from Chassidim.

118

 Jan 17, 2012 at 03:01 PM Yazmach Says:

Reply to #98  
Anonymous Says:

And pardoning "your" ignorance is harder than "not easy"....

"The sin was"
It’s truly impressive how u have such a deep & clear understanding of the Belze ruv’s sins.

"rabbi rokeach spoke disrespectful "
I’m not sure which “Rabbi Rokeach” u refer to, is it Reb Aron z”l, the tzadik against whom Rabbi Teitelbaum spoke at the famous speech?
Is it Reb Aron z”l who said that he is not mochel anyone that went to Rabbi Teitelbaum’s speech ?

"about the gadol hador"
Would u please chare w us how you chose your nominee as “the” gadol hador, at a time when there was: The Chazon Ish, R’ Moishe Feinstein, R’ Aron Kutler, R’ Aron belz, The Bais Yisroel, Klauzunburger ruv, Tshibiner ruv and more

"whom previous tzadikim including rabbi rokeach's uncle reb aron held as the tzadik hador"
I’m not even asking how you are so informed about what “rabbi rokeach's uncle” held. You truly need to recheck your facts.

"a tzadik who 100 years ago older tzadikim trembled before him ”
FYI: 100 years ago Rabbi Teitelbaum he was about 25 years old. With all the respect ,there was not much trembling... educate yourself on what was going on at those times.

Talk about ignorance…
I'm sick and tired. Bye!

This statement that can be verified since he is B"H alive till 120 says it all

Rabbi Ephraim Greenblatt of Memphis, Tennessee, shlita, [a big talmid chocham] a talmid muvhak of Reb Moshe Feinstein, zatzal, told VIN News in a different interview that when he asked Reb Moshe who to consult on Torah learning, he was told, “go to Reb Yoelish—he has kol hatorah kulah in his head and knows more than anyone from this generation.” Rabbi Greenblat told VIN news that when he first met the satmarer rabbi after the advice of his rabbi, he was mesmerized of the Bekias Hatorah of Reb Yolish.

119

 Jan 17, 2012 at 03:05 PM Michael in Seattle Says:

Reply to #76  
CSLMoish Says:

Hida was right?? Don't attack a segment of Jewery which is far more reightous than you are

You should not say "far more reightous than you are", but rather say " far more SELF-righteous than you are."

120

 Jan 17, 2012 at 03:08 PM 50percentlitvack Says:

Reply to #110  
sechelyoshor Says:

You know, I've been mulling over all of these comments. Being as that I am not chassidish, although I do have some pretty chassidishe relatives, from Belz and Satmar, I must say that this whole conversation is silly. Here's what it sounds like to someone who learned in Litvish yeshivos:
Q. What happened?
-The Belzer Rebbe insulted the Satmar Ruv about politics/hashkafa/leaving the Eida/who knows, who remembers...
-which Satmar Ruv?
-which Belzer Rebbe
-the godol hador feared by all
-oh really, what do you know about who is a gadol?
- your version of what happened is wrong, my version is right
- wrong, my version is right because I know the hoiz bocher who heard it himself!
-impossible, that hoiz bochur was my friend who verified the story!!
-well you're wrong anyhow, and the Belzer Rebbe was young and insulted the Satmar Ruv and he should crawl on his hands and knees to the kever and ask mechilla himself

Get the picture? If you are trying to even fake being civil, if this was supposed to be about Shalom, you all have a long. long way to go.

Fellas, stop playing the "my rebbe is better than your rebbe" "my branch of chassidus is better than yours" game. You really appear silly.

yes you right we should we shouldn't think we are better than our friend due to our brand name belz satmar lubavitchetc but brand names include roshei yeshivos also ponevezh ner yisroel mir lakewood brisk etc when you litvacks dont fight over who is next rosh yeshiva like in ponevitch [where they havent followed the psak of the beis din]then say that these chassidim are babies people are people i will not get into details due to my time constraints and the mental limitations of litvaks like you

121

 Jan 17, 2012 at 03:11 PM CH.S Says:

if Satmar would learn from the Belzer rebbe and ask forgiveness from every REBBE,ROSH HAYESHIVA,GAGOL HADOR,that they disparaged and insulted and called them names,they would have to visit every jewish cemetery in Europe,the USA,and Israel,and when asking MECHILA from the living ones,they would have to walk from block to block and from house to house in every jewish neighborhood all over the world,it would take them at least 15 years to complete the mission

122

 Jan 17, 2012 at 03:23 PM sipuk Says:

Reply to #110  
sechelyoshor Says:

You know, I've been mulling over all of these comments. Being as that I am not chassidish, although I do have some pretty chassidishe relatives, from Belz and Satmar, I must say that this whole conversation is silly. Here's what it sounds like to someone who learned in Litvish yeshivos:
Q. What happened?
-The Belzer Rebbe insulted the Satmar Ruv about politics/hashkafa/leaving the Eida/who knows, who remembers...
-which Satmar Ruv?
-which Belzer Rebbe
-the godol hador feared by all
-oh really, what do you know about who is a gadol?
- your version of what happened is wrong, my version is right
- wrong, my version is right because I know the hoiz bocher who heard it himself!
-impossible, that hoiz bochur was my friend who verified the story!!
-well you're wrong anyhow, and the Belzer Rebbe was young and insulted the Satmar Ruv and he should crawl on his hands and knees to the kever and ask mechilla himself

Get the picture? If you are trying to even fake being civil, if this was supposed to be about Shalom, you all have a long. long way to go.

Fellas, stop playing the "my rebbe is better than your rebbe" "my branch of chassidus is better than yours" game. You really appear silly.

Well said. To the point. Thank you!

123

 Jan 17, 2012 at 03:30 PM iAMrational Says:

#113: I really am not familiar with the whole Parsha but I happen to know who #96 is and I also know that if he says something then that is the way it is. He is an extremely ehrliche balebus who never comment about something that he was not absloutely sure about. I am only writing this to protest the bizayon hatorah!

124

 Jan 17, 2012 at 04:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
A Lutvak Says:

Typical Satmarer.. go learn Shulchan Aruch..סימן תר"ו סעיף ב
To those who question why the Rebbe didn't come by himself.. look in Mshn"b

A Satmarer would never write such a thing - it sounds like a cold modern orthodox or maybe a yekke - Satmar learns more shulchan aruch than anything

125

 Jan 17, 2012 at 04:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
ShatzMatz Says:

It is politically convenient for Reb Aron to make peace with Belz. Since the Eida officially recognized Reb Zalmen as Satmar rebbe. Also, he is a brother-in-law with the Belze rebbe. From what I understand, the two sister rebbetzins always kept close, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was they who mediated this peace treaty between their husbands.

Rebbe Aharon is in Palm Springs, CA now, not at home

126

 Jan 17, 2012 at 04:08 PM Lodzker Says:

History is a set of lies agreed upon. - Napoleon de Bonaparte

127

 Jan 17, 2012 at 04:10 PM Nebech Says:

Nobody is really sure what reb areles real opinion on the medina was
Due to the opinion that his gabaim lied to him and changed the information coming out of his room

But one thing is for sure
if reb Areles father (reb yissachor dov zy"a) would have been alive
His fathers shita would have been just like the Satmar shitah

All the belzer rebbes were tremendous tzadikim and tremendous kanaim
The sar shalom fought big battles against reform
Reb yeshayla attended rallies along with the talmidim of the chasam sofer against
The reform
Reb yissachor dov cursed the Zionists,mizrachist,and the Agudah movement
Even more than the Satmar rebbe and the Hungarian rabonim
Rev arele followed all his fathers shitahs until he died (but people changed the facts of a lot of things he was told, and things he said)

That's why the satmar rebbe was upset at some belzer people for lying to their rebbe
(and yes rebbes can be fooled)and changing their mesorah from belzer tzadikim and the diverei Chaim(who was mechutanim with reb yesahayla)

But the Satmar rebbe held the world of rev Arele

128

 Jan 17, 2012 at 04:24 PM realistic Says:

what sholom when sholom??
the belzer rebbe is sick and there was something in back of his mind for the last 30 years, namely: he owes an apology to the satmar rebbe zt"l. there's no doubt that this is a tremendous move for him to do and that's why it wasn't done till now.
however, being ill as he is, he had no choice but to send a minyan to the satmar rav's kever to ask forgiveness, as is required al pi halacha.
there are now 2 generations who know almost nothing about the fight between belz and satmar and the relationship between the 2 kehilos is the same as any other kehilas, and nothing will change after this apology. henceforth, the relationship between satmar and belz will be akin to bobov and viznitz.
bottom line, there's no fighting and no sholom necessary.

129

 Jan 17, 2012 at 04:49 PM esther Says:

Reply to #113  
reder Says:

With all due respect, the Belzer Rebbe shlita did attack the Satmarer Rebbe zt"l personally. Had it been just an issue regarding shita then this whole event would not be taking place.
Different halachic interpretations between gedoilim go back to our rishoinim. Not everybody agreed with the Satmarer Rebbe's fiery opinions; but despite that, no other American godul since, has had such a levaye as he did. The respect he garnered both by litvaks and other Chasidim alike cannot be denied.
Nobody is asking the Belzer Rebbe to come to Monroe personally, but if he truly wants to express repentance, all he has to do is publicly address his large and loyal kehilla in Yerushalayim and the message will resonate all over the world!

a big levays is very nice but what about the life? it seems to me for one to trully be the gadol hador,he has to be deeply involved with and love EVERY jew of that dor,not just the frumme.

130

 Jan 17, 2012 at 04:53 PM Anonymous Says:

That what the Belzer tabernacle said 30 years ago its on tape " די ספר ויואל משה איז מרבה שיקוצים אויף די אדרעסע פין גדולי ישראל "

131

 Jan 17, 2012 at 06:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #86  
CommonSense Says:

First of all..he was 32 not 18.

Second of all he was Belzer Ruv! Once you become the leader of a community then age is no longer an issue. You need to represent your community.

If a young president goes to war against an old despot is it Chitzpeh??

Are u calling the tzaddik hador that the whole world shook from a despot? The Satmar Rov zya did not inherit his post - his brother got the yerisha and whatever he had he earned himself. No young rebbele could talk against him, no more than some young rebbele today, even a big rebbe, could talk against the Skulener Rebbe shlita or anyone on his level. I know a lot of young rebbes and they do not talk against the old rebbes even if they have another shittah

132

 Jan 17, 2012 at 07:20 PM reder Says:

Reply to #129  
esther Says:

a big levays is very nice but what about the life? it seems to me for one to trully be the gadol hador,he has to be deeply involved with and love EVERY jew of that dor,not just the frumme.

Excuse me?!?
The Satmar Rebbe zt"l along with the Rebbetzin a"h were the exemplars of their dor in terms of Chesed - Bikur Cholim, Hachnosas Kallah, etc. - organizations that to this day assist ANY Yid in need.
Their home was a repository of Jews of any stripe or color who came for brachas and help.
In the Sephardic world there are many males named Yoel in his honor - davka because of his gadlus and his reputation as an Ohev Yisroel.
We can quibble about other things regarding Satmar, but this fact is without dispute.
His levaye was so massive not because of his death, but because of his life!

133

 Jan 17, 2012 at 07:23 PM benvin Says:

Reply to #83  
sane Says:

Can someone explain exactly what it is they were fighting about?

It goes something like this:
Satmar wanted to rule (literally) Klall Yisrael. Belz established their own Beth Din. Satmar started terrorizing Belz. At some point the Belzer Rebbe mentioned a few words at a speech. Satmar interpreted it as Shutzpah against their Rebbe. Satmar went into full terrorism mode (literally). Belz didn't give in, so Satmar is angry.
That was about 30 years ago.

134

 Jan 17, 2012 at 07:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #110  
sechelyoshor Says:

You know, I've been mulling over all of these comments. Being as that I am not chassidish, although I do have some pretty chassidishe relatives, from Belz and Satmar, I must say that this whole conversation is silly. Here's what it sounds like to someone who learned in Litvish yeshivos:
Q. What happened?
-The Belzer Rebbe insulted the Satmar Ruv about politics/hashkafa/leaving the Eida/who knows, who remembers...
-which Satmar Ruv?
-which Belzer Rebbe
-the godol hador feared by all
-oh really, what do you know about who is a gadol?
- your version of what happened is wrong, my version is right
- wrong, my version is right because I know the hoiz bocher who heard it himself!
-impossible, that hoiz bochur was my friend who verified the story!!
-well you're wrong anyhow, and the Belzer Rebbe was young and insulted the Satmar Ruv and he should crawl on his hands and knees to the kever and ask mechilla himself

Get the picture? If you are trying to even fake being civil, if this was supposed to be about Shalom, you all have a long. long way to go.

Fellas, stop playing the "my rebbe is better than your rebbe" "my branch of chassidus is better than yours" game. You really appear silly.

Hazak U Baruch the first normal comment on this site. Its a truly a sad day when you see so many Jews fighting over something they really don't even know about (I heard he said no he said) its sheer ignorance. Hashem Yishmor

135

 Jan 17, 2012 at 07:40 PM FirshtRadzivil Says:

Reply to #106  
UriLevi Says:

Reb Yid you just don't get It. You really don't. I feel sorry for you. How far will your Milchama against the"Tziyoinim" go. How about Yeshivas Kerem B'Yavmeh and all other great ehrlich yidden learning in "Tziyoinishe" Yeshivahs. Even Hesder Yeshivahs, let alone the great Kiruv Yeshivos in Eretz Yisrael , who although are more Chareidi in their orientation, work closely with "The Tziyoynim". You really need major introspection. In yiddishkeit Chesed trumps Emes. That's why Chesed is always said before Emes. Get with program. Please!!!

Nothing will change the fact
(1)You are not allowed to have a Medina before Moshiach
(2)The Tziyonim are kofrim apikorsim mechalleli shabos and yom kipur ,Hischabros lorshooim Mershooim Yitzi Raisha ,they can give money for yeshivas Ilroosho oomer ma lechoo lesaper chikie .who needs it ? not Hashem

136

 Jan 17, 2012 at 07:45 PM rationalman Says:

Reply to #6  
Barzilai Says:

Interesting that they don't seem to hold like the poskim brought in Shaarei Tziyun 606 sk 3, that asking for mechila should be done personally, not with an intermediary.

while your quote is right on...you also should know that one must be don l'kaf z'chus as well...it is also part of shulchan auruch. So i will venture to guess either the rebbe himself asked for micheela prior to the satmar rebbe's death or he had been to the kever with out being recognized.

137

 Jan 17, 2012 at 07:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #99  
Sol-Sol Says:

I never got the full picture of what happened back 40 yrs ago and I don't feel it makes a differents at this point. I'm sure the Hyliga Satmer Ruv Ztl' is Moichel with his whole heart. He is one of the few Tzadikim that we still feel in the Yiddisha atmosphere as if he's still alive. I don't know another Ruv from the previous Dor that is quoted so much in Torah & Yiddishkiet conversation. He was a Shtick Hyligkiet in every meaning of the word!!

You write
" I don't know another Ruv from the previous Dor that is quoted so much in Torah & Yiddishkiet "

It really doesn't make a difference, however...
I hope that your world won't be shattered one day, when you step out of your "daled amos", and take a walk through the frum world, and will realize that -how should I say it- you are missing some very basic info.

Here is a hint - a few random names- Just to start:
"The Chazon Ish","De Tzelemer Ruv"," "Reb Moishe", ,"Reb Shloime Zalmen"
RIngs the bell ?anything? If not, you can start by looking them up in Wikipedia ( but hurry because they are going dark soon for 24 hours)

Oh.. While we are at that...
Thanks for sharing with us your feeling when you write"
"He is one of the few Tzadikim that still feel in the Yiddisha atmosphere as if he's still alive"
I'm very very very curious to know if you have an estimate of how many people share your feelings? Stam... And -according to you- people that hav different feelings on this point - is something wrong with their Emunah or Hashkufe?
( If you just felt the need to express how "you" feel, please disregard this)

Wow... and I thought that I have seen it all!!!

138

 Jan 17, 2012 at 08:01 PM anonymous Says:

what is lacking is the fundamental of chassidus ahavas yisroel, hob lieb a yidden, stam a yidden , chiloni, litvak and chusid and the responses are permeated with politics

139

 Jan 17, 2012 at 08:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #121  
CH.S Says:

if Satmar would learn from the Belzer rebbe and ask forgiveness from every REBBE,ROSH HAYESHIVA,GAGOL HADOR,that they disparaged and insulted and called them names,they would have to visit every jewish cemetery in Europe,the USA,and Israel,and when asking MECHILA from the living ones,they would have to walk from block to block and from house to house in every jewish neighborhood all over the world,it would take them at least 15 years to complete the mission

Well said!!!
You are so right!

I wanted to say it. I didn't think that it adds anything to the discussion. But I'm happy that -as this issue moves off the first page- at least someone said it.

140

 Jan 17, 2012 at 08:52 PM CommonSense Says:

Reply to #127  
Nebech Says:

Nobody is really sure what reb areles real opinion on the medina was
Due to the opinion that his gabaim lied to him and changed the information coming out of his room

But one thing is for sure
if reb Areles father (reb yissachor dov zy"a) would have been alive
His fathers shita would have been just like the Satmar shitah

All the belzer rebbes were tremendous tzadikim and tremendous kanaim
The sar shalom fought big battles against reform
Reb yeshayla attended rallies along with the talmidim of the chasam sofer against
The reform
Reb yissachor dov cursed the Zionists,mizrachist,and the Agudah movement
Even more than the Satmar rebbe and the Hungarian rabonim
Rev arele followed all his fathers shitahs until he died (but people changed the facts of a lot of things he was told, and things he said)

That's why the satmar rebbe was upset at some belzer people for lying to their rebbe
(and yes rebbes can be fooled)and changing their mesorah from belzer tzadikim and the diverei Chaim(who was mechutanim with reb yesahayla)

But the Satmar rebbe held the world of rev Arele

The Torah says Ein Lecha Ela Navie Shebeyamecha" You have to go to the leaders of OUR generation...
To say that so and so would have held this shita had he been living today is wrong.
If the Chazon Ish would have died in 1940 then Satmar would be saying..oh if only the Chazon Ish wouldve lived when the medina was created he would be against going to bechiros. The same is true with the Belzer Ruv..who knew good and well what he was talking about and had many run-ins with Kanoim...

141

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #129  
esther Says:

a big levays is very nice but what about the life? it seems to me for one to trully be the gadol hador,he has to be deeply involved with and love EVERY jew of that dor,not just the frumme.

Do you know what you are talking about....insinuating that the Satmar Rebbe ztl did not? Nobody in the world loved a jew 'EVERY JEW' with the kind of love that the Rebbe ztl. did...are you for real....?!!!!

142

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #132  
reder Says:

Excuse me?!?
The Satmar Rebbe zt"l along with the Rebbetzin a"h were the exemplars of their dor in terms of Chesed - Bikur Cholim, Hachnosas Kallah, etc. - organizations that to this day assist ANY Yid in need.
Their home was a repository of Jews of any stripe or color who came for brachas and help.
In the Sephardic world there are many males named Yoel in his honor - davka because of his gadlus and his reputation as an Ohev Yisroel.
We can quibble about other things regarding Satmar, but this fact is without dispute.
His levaye was so massive not because of his death, but because of his life!

GIT GEZUGT!!!! I sent in response to that post too...but your last sentence said it all...!!!!

143

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:19 PM FirshtRadzivil Says:

Reply to #121  
CH.S Says:

if Satmar would learn from the Belzer rebbe and ask forgiveness from every REBBE,ROSH HAYESHIVA,GAGOL HADOR,that they disparaged and insulted and called them names,they would have to visit every jewish cemetery in Europe,the USA,and Israel,and when asking MECHILA from the living ones,they would have to walk from block to block and from house to house in every jewish neighborhood all over the world,it would take them at least 15 years to complete the mission

Satmar don't have to ask Mechila from no one they are Heilige Voile Yiden ,goes in fire for another yid the biggest balie tzdooka in our century both sides ,nobody will beat them in Tora or Yiras Shoomaim ,they have with the Lubavitcher Rubashkin Zero but they made a campaign worldwide ,they know what Ahavas Yisroel means ask any shnorer where he makes his most money where he is offered to eat drink and sleep ,that's all the fruits of Rabieni Yoel Zechiso Yoogen Ooleini

144

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:21 PM Nebech Says:

Reply to #140 the Satmar rebbe held that we only follow leaders today who follow the previous leaders
He disagreed with this whole term "today is different"
He was a strong follower of the chasam sofers shita including the famous saying "chadash assur min hatora"

And that's why (even though I hold of all the gedolim) I believe the Satmar rebbe was right over the rest of the gedolim
Because when he spoke it was generations of previous gedolim talking through him
Due to the fact that he never changed their shitahs

So even though he was huge in his own right every time he opened his mouth on hashkafa
It was not just him speaking
But the divrei Chaim , the chasam sofer, and all the previous generations of gedolim
That we know love and treasure

145

 Jan 17, 2012 at 09:32 PM FirshtRadzivil Says:

Reply to #137  
Anonymous Says:

You write
" I don't know another Ruv from the previous Dor that is quoted so much in Torah & Yiddishkiet "

It really doesn't make a difference, however...
I hope that your world won't be shattered one day, when you step out of your "daled amos", and take a walk through the frum world, and will realize that -how should I say it- you are missing some very basic info.

Here is a hint - a few random names- Just to start:
"The Chazon Ish","De Tzelemer Ruv"," "Reb Moishe", ,"Reb Shloime Zalmen"
RIngs the bell ?anything? If not, you can start by looking them up in Wikipedia ( but hurry because they are going dark soon for 24 hours)

Oh.. While we are at that...
Thanks for sharing with us your feeling when you write"
"He is one of the few Tzadikim that still feel in the Yiddisha atmosphere as if he's still alive"
I'm very very very curious to know if you have an estimate of how many people share your feelings? Stam... And -according to you- people that hav different feelings on this point - is something wrong with their Emunah or Hashkufe?
( If you just felt the need to express how "you" feel, please disregard this)

Wow... and I thought that I have seen it all!!!

They were all real Gedoile Yisroel but Satmar Rabbi R Yoel was a Gooen In Tora a Gooen in Avoida and A Gooen in Gemilas Chasoodim

146

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #127  
Nebech Says:

Nobody is really sure what reb areles real opinion on the medina was
Due to the opinion that his gabaim lied to him and changed the information coming out of his room

But one thing is for sure
if reb Areles father (reb yissachor dov zy"a) would have been alive
His fathers shita would have been just like the Satmar shitah

All the belzer rebbes were tremendous tzadikim and tremendous kanaim
The sar shalom fought big battles against reform
Reb yeshayla attended rallies along with the talmidim of the chasam sofer against
The reform
Reb yissachor dov cursed the Zionists,mizrachist,and the Agudah movement
Even more than the Satmar rebbe and the Hungarian rabonim
Rev arele followed all his fathers shitahs until he died (but people changed the facts of a lot of things he was told, and things he said)

That's why the satmar rebbe was upset at some belzer people for lying to their rebbe
(and yes rebbes can be fooled)and changing their mesorah from belzer tzadikim and the diverei Chaim(who was mechutanim with reb yesahayla)

But the Satmar rebbe held the world of rev Arele

Wo wo wo!!
Who said the gabuyim were controling reb aron and not by reb yoel?? How far fedched is this to say that belzer rabbi was missinformed, what things didnt he know?? He said all the times that his father was a malech, but he also believed with his holy eyes that this generation doesn't need this against the tziyonim the same that nobody talks about the reforms, they are millions of them.
2) belzer rabbi today is a big kanuyi for our time issues, he was the 1st gudol against internet, whenever he can he speaks about it, makes meetings, thats the real issues in this dor that thousands are off derech.

148

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #143  
FirshtRadzivil Says:

Satmar don't have to ask Mechila from no one they are Heilige Voile Yiden ,goes in fire for another yid the biggest balie tzdooka in our century both sides ,nobody will beat them in Tora or Yiras Shoomaim ,they have with the Lubavitcher Rubashkin Zero but they made a campaign worldwide ,they know what Ahavas Yisroel means ask any shnorer where he makes his most money where he is offered to eat drink and sleep ,that's all the fruits of Rabieni Yoel Zechiso Yoogen Ooleini

"TheSatmar don't have to ask Mechila from no one ...they are Heilige Voile Yiden"
Actually, the list of those from whom the Satmar (both Aharonistas and Zalmanistas) need to beg mechillah is too long for the word limits in these postings. It would not be appropriate to list here all those who have been harmed by Satmar loshon horah and sinas chinam. Its time to move on so lets look forward rather than backwards.

149

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:24 PM esther Says:

Reply to #141  
Anonymous Says:

Do you know what you are talking about....insinuating that the Satmar Rebbe ztl did not? Nobody in the world loved a jew 'EVERY JEW' with the kind of love that the Rebbe ztl. did...are you for real....?!!!!

one would think that the true shita of a rebbe is scene through his chassidm's actions.satmer are often verbally and physically violent against other yiddden and you know it.i was in brooklyn in the 70's and 80's when r yoel was still alive and remember very well debeardings and beatings perpatrated by satmers against jews with "the wrong" shitahe never disavowed the violence.. now they fight amongst themselves as well nebach but that's what happens when you're raised to think that violence is Ok.look at meah sharim now as well.

150

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:37 PM Texaser Says:

Hopefully Satmar will learn from this and finally (not only as recently BH been seen to support and benefit from Lubavitch, but, also) ask mechila by the Ohel of the Lubavitcher Rebbes as demanded by the Lubavitcher Rebbe. The drive to Queens is much shorter than Monsey.

151

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #131  
Anonymous Says:

Are u calling the tzaddik hador that the whole world shook from a despot? The Satmar Rov zya did not inherit his post - his brother got the yerisha and whatever he had he earned himself. No young rebbele could talk against him, no more than some young rebbele today, even a big rebbe, could talk against the Skulener Rebbe shlita or anyone on his level. I know a lot of young rebbes and they do not talk against the old rebbes even if they have another shittah

It didn't start that belzer rabbi had to speak so harsh against.
Its started 1st that belzer rabbi deceided to open a beis din as the belzer dayen got thrown out from eideh, then after satmar came into the fight who no one asked them, 3 years later (if you know what happened in between) the belzer rabbi started to talk, don't say he shouldn't have had to.
And look how the fights go today and what they talk on each other...

152

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:48 PM LITVOCK Says:

rabboasi its all loshon horah these comments. It was a very nice thing and lets move on with our lives

153

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:51 PM diduever Says:

was there ever a Rebbi that had so many Rabbonim (led by Satmar) sign against him and then HE GOES AND ASKS FOR MECHILA. What a kiddush hashem

154

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #130  
Anonymous Says:

That what the Belzer tabernacle said 30 years ago its on tape " די ספר ויואל משה איז מרבה שיקוצים אויף די אדרעסע פין גדולי ישראל "

Do you mind explaining the word "tabernacle" ?
I can't find any meaning other then the "Mishkan"...

155

 Jan 17, 2012 at 10:56 PM realistic Says:

Reply to #149  
esther Says:

one would think that the true shita of a rebbe is scene through his chassidm's actions.satmer are often verbally and physically violent against other yiddden and you know it.i was in brooklyn in the 70's and 80's when r yoel was still alive and remember very well debeardings and beatings perpatrated by satmers against jews with "the wrong" shitahe never disavowed the violence.. now they fight amongst themselves as well nebach but that's what happens when you're raised to think that violence is Ok.look at meah sharim now as well.

Violence happens everywhere some believe that they have power. That's true in satmar, belz (vs belz-machnifke) meshichistim vs antis skver vs. Rottenberg, viznitz vs viznitz skver vs rachmistrivke, bobov vs bobov and so on.

156

 Jan 17, 2012 at 11:09 PM Nebech Says:

Reply to #146
Look at the irony in what you just said
Reb arele held of his father as a malach (always right)
But did not fight the battle that his father fought with all his might

Now let me correct you
Rev arele held of his father to be a malach
And he fought just like him against the Zionists before world war 2 (He even praised the Hungarian Jewry for their fight)
But after world war 2 things changed.
The belzers claim as you said saw he differently like klausenberg (who was also anti Zionist before ww2)
The Satmars say his gabaim deceived him
And I say he never took an action that contradicted his heiliger tattes words

157

 Jan 17, 2012 at 11:24 PM Anonymous Says:

משל למה הדבר דומה:when a 2 boys are in a dispute and one kid is crying the teacher ask the crying boy why are you crying the boy answer that he insulted me by talking bed on my father he told that my father is not the strongest guy in shuel and he told all the classmates that he is not afraid of my father so the teacher tells the other boy tell him I'm sorry even so the teacher knows that he is right just for the sake of peace in the classroom he tells him just say I'm sorry after a few times if the kid is a smart kid he will tell loud I'm sorry even he knows and all the kids know that he is right......

158

 Jan 17, 2012 at 11:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #110  
sechelyoshor Says:

You know, I've been mulling over all of these comments. Being as that I am not chassidish, although I do have some pretty chassidishe relatives, from Belz and Satmar, I must say that this whole conversation is silly. Here's what it sounds like to someone who learned in Litvish yeshivos:
Q. What happened?
-The Belzer Rebbe insulted the Satmar Ruv about politics/hashkafa/leaving the Eida/who knows, who remembers...
-which Satmar Ruv?
-which Belzer Rebbe
-the godol hador feared by all
-oh really, what do you know about who is a gadol?
- your version of what happened is wrong, my version is right
- wrong, my version is right because I know the hoiz bocher who heard it himself!
-impossible, that hoiz bochur was my friend who verified the story!!
-well you're wrong anyhow, and the Belzer Rebbe was young and insulted the Satmar Ruv and he should crawl on his hands and knees to the kever and ask mechilla himself

Get the picture? If you are trying to even fake being civil, if this was supposed to be about Shalom, you all have a long. long way to go.

Fellas, stop playing the "my rebbe is better than your rebbe" "my branch of chassidus is better than yours" game. You really appear silly.

But that's for sure Chasidish is better then litvish ,
(1) A Vareme Kave

(2)A Blat Gemmora Fartoogs
(3) A Varime Mikve
(4) A Varime Davenen
(5) A glazel Mashke
(6) A giten Deal
(7) Chap A Mincha
(8) A Little Mishnayos
(9) A Vareme Super
(10) A Blat Gemmora
(11) A vareme Krias Shma

159

 Jan 17, 2012 at 11:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #158  
Anonymous Says:

But that's for sure Chasidish is better then litvish ,
(1) A Vareme Kave

(2)A Blat Gemmora Fartoogs
(3) A Varime Mikve
(4) A Varime Davenen
(5) A glazel Mashke
(6) A giten Deal
(7) Chap A Mincha
(8) A Little Mishnayos
(9) A Vareme Super
(10) A Blat Gemmora
(11) A vareme Krias Shma

Well said.. (even tough lots of litvaks now-a-days adopted some or all of those line items........)

160

 Jan 18, 2012 at 12:09 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #127  
Nebech Says:

Nobody is really sure what reb areles real opinion on the medina was
Due to the opinion that his gabaim lied to him and changed the information coming out of his room

But one thing is for sure
if reb Areles father (reb yissachor dov zy"a) would have been alive
His fathers shita would have been just like the Satmar shitah

All the belzer rebbes were tremendous tzadikim and tremendous kanaim
The sar shalom fought big battles against reform
Reb yeshayla attended rallies along with the talmidim of the chasam sofer against
The reform
Reb yissachor dov cursed the Zionists,mizrachist,and the Agudah movement
Even more than the Satmar rebbe and the Hungarian rabonim
Rev arele followed all his fathers shitahs until he died (but people changed the facts of a lot of things he was told, and things he said)

That's why the satmar rebbe was upset at some belzer people for lying to their rebbe
(and yes rebbes can be fooled)and changing their mesorah from belzer tzadikim and the diverei Chaim(who was mechutanim with reb yesahayla)

But the Satmar rebbe held the world of rev Arele

The name u chose suits you, Nebech!
You are so narrow minded, and it seems from your post that you still believe all they "preached" at the satmar Cheider is true...
Look at Satmar nowadays, see how many go to the "kosel" and even those who do not, are definitely visiting "Eilat", sounds like the "satmar shita" to me... (FL...) vd"l.

161

 Jan 18, 2012 at 12:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #156  
Nebech Says:

Reply to #146
Look at the irony in what you just said
Reb arele held of his father as a malach (always right)
But did not fight the battle that his father fought with all his might

Now let me correct you
Rev arele held of his father to be a malach
And he fought just like him against the Zionists before world war 2 (He even praised the Hungarian Jewry for their fight)
But after world war 2 things changed.
The belzers claim as you said saw he differently like klausenberg (who was also anti Zionist before ww2)
The Satmars say his gabaim deceived him
And I say he never took an action that contradicted his heiliger tattes words

Look how it was before WW2 and after, before the zionist were a huge movment to make all yidden mechalelei shabusim and they managed ganz quite every family had an off derech, we had to go all the way to fight.
But after WW2 reb aron saw with his holy eyes and the other gedolim that things will change NO ONE GETS THERE OFF THE DERECH even thow it says so in der yid/blatt, the are 10 times more balei tshuves.
And reb aron never said it was muter to take over EY, thats user and for this reason we could take money from them because its not theirs.

162

 Jan 18, 2012 at 12:41 AM anonymousagain Says:

Reply to #1  
Secular Says:

Why didn't the Rebbe go himself?

He's not in good health and even if he were there's nothing wrong with someone who has so much responsibility to send a delegation for him.

163

 Jan 18, 2012 at 12:44 AM loving mom Says:

Reply to #138  
anonymous Says:

what is lacking is the fundamental of chassidus ahavas yisroel, hob lieb a yidden, stam a yidden , chiloni, litvak and chusid and the responses are permeated with politics

so when david hamelech sad in thilem msanechu hashem esnu iveskomemachoo eskoitot tachlis sinoe soniesim loivim hoyee lee. most probably by then he was still a litvak or maybe a yeka !!!

164

 Jan 18, 2012 at 01:08 AM esther Says:

Reply to #157  
Anonymous Says:

משל למה הדבר דומה:when a 2 boys are in a dispute and one kid is crying the teacher ask the crying boy why are you crying the boy answer that he insulted me by talking bed on my father he told that my father is not the strongest guy in shuel and he told all the classmates that he is not afraid of my father so the teacher tells the other boy tell him I'm sorry even so the teacher knows that he is right just for the sake of peace in the classroom he tells him just say I'm sorry after a few times if the kid is a smart kid he will tell loud I'm sorry even he knows and all the kids know that he is right......

you know,there's a reason punctuation was invented.

165

 Jan 18, 2012 at 01:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #149  
esther Says:

one would think that the true shita of a rebbe is scene through his chassidm's actions.satmer are often verbally and physically violent against other yiddden and you know it.i was in brooklyn in the 70's and 80's when r yoel was still alive and remember very well debeardings and beatings perpatrated by satmers against jews with "the wrong" shitahe never disavowed the violence.. now they fight amongst themselves as well nebach but that's what happens when you're raised to think that violence is Ok.look at meah sharim now as well.

First off, learn how to spell properly...scene? you mean seen....
Secondly....it is obvious who the hater around here is by the tone of your message.Guess what,I grew up in the heart of Williamsburg. The Rebbe did not force his shita on anyone, even though he was vociferous and unyielding in his belief. He never advocated violence...only in your "hateful" imagination. For you to come and spew garbage out of your hatred for Satmar, which is obvious to any thinking person, bespeaks your own issues. So before you make accusations, go check your mirror and ask yourself why you harbor these feelings, which you obviously are not in touch with.
Hazlocha Raba.

166

 Jan 18, 2012 at 01:39 AM A Poshiter Yid Says:

I wasn't around back then, so instead of beleaving what some comments here are saying, I just googled "belz rabbi" and came across this New York Times article from 3/3/1981 titled "GUARD SET FOR BELZ RABBI AS HASIDIC TENSION GROWS". After reading it, I think there's a lot more needed than just asking forgiveness, what about the Chilul Hashem?... After reading this quote ''Not since Nazi Germany have the streets been splattered with such hate against Jews" I know it's not belz that needs to ask forgiveness.You be the judge!

167

 Jan 18, 2012 at 01:58 AM Anonymous Says:

I once heard that when reb Yoel was nifter the biggest newspaper in Israel the Yediot Ahronot ran a headline on reb yoelws character as follows: היה אוהב ישראל ושונא מדינת ישראל!
Can someone confirm this ?

168

 Jan 18, 2012 at 03:13 AM Mavirsedra Says:

Reply to #19  
Satmar Says:

its in plan both satmar rebbe's will make shulim with belzer rebbe next month, rav zalmen of williamsburg is flying to israel pr' bishalach for the toldos ahron - rav"d satmar wedding, & rav ahron from kiryas joel is flying to israel pr' shkulim.
history in our times, 1 day both satmars will also make piece...

where do u know this info from that Rav Zalman Leib is going 2 Yerushalayim 4 the Toldos Aron Dayan Satmar Chasuna ? & is this his grandson's Chasuna being that his son is the Satmar Dayan of Yerushalyim

169

 Jan 18, 2012 at 03:52 AM Chussid Pashut Says:

Reply to #152  
LITVOCK Says:

rabboasi its all loshon horah these comments. It was a very nice thing and lets move on with our lives

That's right: let's do things in our traditional minhag - sweep things under the rug and pretend that nothing happened.

170

 Jan 18, 2012 at 08:50 AM sechelyoshor Says:

Reply to #120  
50percentlitvack Says:

yes you right we should we shouldn't think we are better than our friend due to our brand name belz satmar lubavitchetc but brand names include roshei yeshivos also ponevezh ner yisroel mir lakewood brisk etc when you litvacks dont fight over who is next rosh yeshiva like in ponevitch [where they havent followed the psak of the beis din]then say that these chassidim are babies people are people i will not get into details due to my time constraints and the mental limitations of litvaks like you

Oh, I agree with you 100%. All of it nuts. But since I have no emotional connection to chassidus, I though I'd offer all the chassidim some perspective about what it wounds like. BTW, I was comment 110. Now with another 60 comments, thinks still like bickering children.
Is this what Yiddishkeit is all about? Is there any wonder why we still hav not seen the rebuilding of the Beis Hamikdosh? The churban is ourselves! Look how splintered and foolish we are!

171

 Jan 18, 2012 at 08:57 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #166  
A Poshiter Yid Says:

I wasn't around back then, so instead of beleaving what some comments here are saying, I just googled "belz rabbi" and came across this New York Times article from 3/3/1981 titled "GUARD SET FOR BELZ RABBI AS HASIDIC TENSION GROWS". After reading it, I think there's a lot more needed than just asking forgiveness, what about the Chilul Hashem?... After reading this quote ''Not since Nazi Germany have the streets been splattered with such hate against Jews" I know it's not belz that needs to ask forgiveness.You be the judge!

Very simple to judge;
Look who had to have security gaurds!!
This was a huge chilul hashem.
Everything for power only!

172

 Jan 18, 2012 at 09:10 AM Avreich1 Says:

Reply to #167  
Anonymous Says:

I once heard that when reb Yoel was nifter the biggest newspaper in Israel the Yediot Ahronot ran a headline on reb yoelws character as follows: היה אוהב ישראל ושונא מדינת ישראל!
Can someone confirm this ?

@Anonymous #167:

I have thoroughly checked the Yediot Ahronot/Ynet archive, and I have also searched both Google and Yahoo, but I can find no trace whatsoever of the phrase "היה אוהב ישראל ושונא מדינת ישראל" in any context.

On that basis another legend bites the dust, but I am sure that someone somewhere will be only too pleased to contradict my findings. They usually do.

Best wishes.

173

 Jan 18, 2012 at 09:16 AM Unasked_Question Says:

Reply to #165  
Anonymous Says:

First off, learn how to spell properly...scene? you mean seen....
Secondly....it is obvious who the hater around here is by the tone of your message.Guess what,I grew up in the heart of Williamsburg. The Rebbe did not force his shita on anyone, even though he was vociferous and unyielding in his belief. He never advocated violence...only in your "hateful" imagination. For you to come and spew garbage out of your hatred for Satmar, which is obvious to any thinking person, bespeaks your own issues. So before you make accusations, go check your mirror and ask yourself why you harbor these feelings, which you obviously are not in touch with.
Hazlocha Raba.

How dare you tell a frum Yid learn how to spell ?
That's so against the satmer shiteh... Spelling English? I mean how much lower can we go?
Tomorrow you will suggest that one should read The Hamodia or Ami magazine. god forbid.

The rest of your comment is not "obvious to any thinking person"
No one is saying the R'yoel forced his shitah on anyone.
However; Satmer in general -until they got busy w internal fights- somehow was fighting against Belz, Chabad, Klauznburg, Viznitz to name a few...
Need I remind you that until a few years ago, in "Der Yid" when mentioning Rav Elyashiv, there was not even a "Reb", it was just his last name?
Need I remind you that Rav Ovadyah is referred to as "De spiritual leader of Shas" not reb or rav?
Need I remind you that Neturei Kartah, The Beth-Shemesh spitters, The Natzi screamers are all Satmer Talmidim, -in their view- they are continuing the real Satmer Shiteh?

I'm trying to keep it as respectful as possible.
I just wanted you to understand why people feel this way... it's not "hate" for Satmer,
it's an analogy of a Chassidus that had Zero respect for any Ruv, Kehilleh that isn't going w the Shiteh.

Things are changing b"h.

174

 Jan 18, 2012 at 09:23 AM sechelyoshor Says:

Reply to #158  
Anonymous Says:

But that's for sure Chasidish is better then litvish ,
(1) A Vareme Kave

(2)A Blat Gemmora Fartoogs
(3) A Varime Mikve
(4) A Varime Davenen
(5) A glazel Mashke
(6) A giten Deal
(7) Chap A Mincha
(8) A Little Mishnayos
(9) A Vareme Super
(10) A Blat Gemmora
(11) A vareme Krias Shma

That made me smile!

There's no doubt that Chassidim have something special there. But I sense that while it's lovely on the surface, it can't be that special if there are hundreds of comments, almost all involved in a fight - all comments on a news item about peace.

Is it possible, that the very nature of having "courts" is the root of this problem?
Mashal V'Nimshal:
In baseball there's only so much room for teams in one league. When it gets overcrowded, you make a new league. You have a commissioner to resolve disputes. But with Chassidus, there can be no new league, and there is no commissioner. So the only thing that happens when the field gets crowded is ousting encroachers from the only available league...

175

 Jan 18, 2012 at 10:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #171  
Anonymous Says:

Very simple to judge;
Look who had to have security gaurds!!
This was a huge chilul hashem.
Everything for power only!

"Everything for the power only" are u kidding me, he was threatened with his life by satmar if he steps foot in america, for that matter there was a reward posted by 2 satmara guys for his head, and talking about forgivness one of these guys daven every day in belz shul without being bothered att all, just wondering how it would look the otherway around if some one would offer money for satmar rebbes head and he would walk into a satmar shul

176

 Jan 18, 2012 at 11:01 AM getzel Says:

The Belzer Rebbe is committed to Sholom even he feels that he did the right thing at the Time his own brother in law will only come to visit him next month is he send a delegation to Monroe he will do that too (which we know he did as a favor for Reb Aron to quiet down tensions in his kehila for the upcoming visit)The Belzer Rebbe ones told my Father that "when I was young I fought for the EMES,now I'll fight for SHOLOM". Belz agrees that the Satmar Rebbe was a great godol, but we'll disagree with the given fact that the current Belzer Rebbe is not..its a open world,just check what Belz looks like todays days, did anyone believe that it would look the way it looks today??how much chesed goes through that door?? Erza l'marpeh ,Bikur Choilem,Hadibroot, Tzohar..this costs millions of dollars a year on the Rebbe's head. Look how many Yeshiva guys and sephardim balei tshuva find there place in Belz look at all the gedolim that keep on coming to visit the Rebbe from all strips and colors. Let Belz go with the Belzer shita and sholom al yisroel

177

 Jan 18, 2012 at 11:16 AM some1 Says:

Lets all of you stop this whole argument,
1)Nobody on either side will anyways never be moyde to the other side.
2)Its a thing in the past why fresh it all over again.
3)Its finishing anyways this fight, belzer rabbi send to be moechel, satmar rabbi is coming to him.
So why blow up the fire again, it will for sure not bring mushiach.

178

 Jan 18, 2012 at 01:22 PM avade Says:

exactly! mechila was ment for mechila! and not to start a whole argument all over again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

179

 Jan 18, 2012 at 04:46 PM reder Says:

Reply to #178  
avade Says:

exactly! mechila was ment for mechila! and not to start a whole argument all over again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indeed! This issue should be put to rest.
The action of the Belzer Rebbe shlita is subject to the interpretation of each individual. Our regurgitating it has not in any way swayed the opinions of those who are affected by the action of these choshuve Belzer dayanim.
Let it be!

180

 Jan 19, 2012 at 12:11 AM Chaptz-eihm Says:

Reply to #37  
Lodzker Says:

Here is what happened. I heard this from the House Bochur of the Belzer Rebbe R' Aharon ZT"L. In the 1940's the Satmar Ruv was Rav of Yerushalayim and zionist activity was making way for the zionist state in the holy land. The Satmar Ruv was calling for demonstrations and the like, while after 1948 was calling on Jews not to vote or partake from the zionists. At the same time, Rebbe Aharon of Belz ZT"L who was also the gadol hador in Jerusalem, was allowing the jews to vote and let the Aguda work with the zionists to some extents.
There was a rumor propagated by the Belzers and others that the Satmar Ruv was speaking ill against the Belzer Rebbe and speaking agisnt him. When the Satmar Rebbe heard this rumor against him, he sent two dayanim from the Eida to be Mochel him from the Belzer rebbe and explain that the Satmar Rebbe never intended to seem to speak against the Belzer Rebbes person. The Belzer rebbe sent these emmisaries back saying "You arent even satmar chassidim. let the Satmar rebbe send his own chassidim so I know its from him". So the Satmar rebbe sent his own gabboim. When they arrived, the Belzer chassidim did not let them enter the Belzer Rebbes room . to be cont

Which House Bochur?

182

 Jan 19, 2012 at 12:54 AM 1 Word Says:

Reply to #86  
CommonSense Says:

First of all..he was 32 not 18.

Second of all he was Belzer Ruv! Once you become the leader of a community then age is no longer an issue. You need to represent your community.

If a young president goes to war against an old despot is it Chitzpeh??

how silly can you be? because he is Rebbe Can he talk in the name of his Chassidis Against Moshe Rabeiny too?

183

 Jan 19, 2012 at 01:23 AM 100% correct Says:

Reply to #127  
Nebech Says:

Nobody is really sure what reb areles real opinion on the medina was
Due to the opinion that his gabaim lied to him and changed the information coming out of his room

But one thing is for sure
if reb Areles father (reb yissachor dov zy"a) would have been alive
His fathers shita would have been just like the Satmar shitah

All the belzer rebbes were tremendous tzadikim and tremendous kanaim
The sar shalom fought big battles against reform
Reb yeshayla attended rallies along with the talmidim of the chasam sofer against
The reform
Reb yissachor dov cursed the Zionists,mizrachist,and the Agudah movement
Even more than the Satmar rebbe and the Hungarian rabonim
Rev arele followed all his fathers shitahs until he died (but people changed the facts of a lot of things he was told, and things he said)

That's why the satmar rebbe was upset at some belzer people for lying to their rebbe
(and yes rebbes can be fooled)and changing their mesorah from belzer tzadikim and the diverei Chaim(who was mechutanim with reb yesahayla)

But the Satmar rebbe held the world of rev Arele

100% correct.. and The Satmer Rebbe ZTZ"L tried to talk to REB AHARON ZTZ"L and they didn't allow him.. Yitchuck Mier Levine... told Shulem Foigel, if you let this hungerian Rebbe in speak to REB AHARON ZTZ"L .. we lost it all...

184

 Jan 22, 2012 at 10:07 AM Bhnews3 Says:

He did a great move we need to have peace....maabey now all the rabbonim will learn and moshech will come

185

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