Jerusalem – The exclusion of women is taking on a new form in the ultra-Orthodox city of Modiin Illit: Extreme haredi elements posted signs in one of the city’s business centers last week, calling on men and women to use separate elevators.
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Passersby who saw the stickers rushed to remove them, but they reappeared on the elevators several hours later.
According to one of the signs, a new elevator inaugurated in the center should be used by men, while women should take the older one. It should be noted, however, that the “women’s elevator” is bigger than the men’s.
The elevator segregation initiators stressed that the new arrangement was being carried out with local residents’ consent.
How long will it be before the machmirim that seem to rule every jot and tittle of our daily lives here in Israel decide that women will no longer be permitted to breathe the same air as men?
After all, they have segregated the buses, they have banned women from walking on the same sidewalks as men, and now they are demanding that these ‘unterfrauen’ be forbidden from riding the same elevators as them chas vechalila.
When will they force some geriatric gedolim to append their signatures to a psak to that effect? Before Purim, or afterwards?
How about living on separate planets?
All those Gedolim living in elevator buildings in Williamsburgh and the Lower East Side and I never heard of the elevators being checked for women before the Gedolim would use them. The Artscroll book about Rav Moshe, if I remember correctly, discusses how warm and personable he was with the nursing staff, irrespective of gender. I guess it’s an aliyas hadoros. We are now becoming greater than our forebearers. Soon, we will be more frum than the generation of Chezkiyah.
When I was a bochur decades ago, I looked away or took off my glasses (not too obviously). Why nowadays, instead of controlling themselves, do men inconvenience women? This is very selfish.
Segregated elevators are a serious inconvenience. Waiting for an elevator can be frustrating at the best of times. Now, everyone will have to wait even longer.
And what’s next? Segregated buses, streets, stores, clinics (oh, I forgot, we already have those).
Enough of the madness!
i think the womens elevators should have a sofa and mirrors . this way the women can sit down and also make sure they look nice and neat before they get out of the elevator.
Another chumra, when does it stop. Perhaps apartment buildings should now be built with seperate entrances and there should be a mechtiza on every floor. perhaps we will get a new airline that flies men and women on diff days. this would be funny if it wasnt so sad. I am just waiting for some idiot to write back saying it is yichud therefore it must be done this way.
I remember quite a few years ago there was a brand new stunning building in Saudi Arabia that was rendered unusable since it was built with only one elvator and thus a mixing of the sexes was inevitable.
Is that the direction where we’re heading to…………………
why not give the new elevator to the woman?
The womans elevator is bigger, I guess they are say womans should work and not many men should work.
Is there halacha issue of yichud in a elevator?
When some of the chareidim have had enough of this stupidity and want to join the ranks of the brain-using world, we will welcome them with open arms. We will teach them to talk and behave like a normal person. We will teach them about the outside world, a little science, a little math, a little culture. It will take time, but it can be done.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have pretty much had enough of these low life, do nothing idiots. They have pretty much proven over and over again what pirkei avos says about neither learning nor working. I really don’t give a rat’s behind what they say and what they want, nor who they get to sign off on their meshigas. As fas as I’m concerned, I do not consider these jerks to be of the same religion as myself. People, it’s time for all of us to make a stand against these chayas and their so called “rabbonim”. At this point, I have ZERO respect for any “rav” that approves this behavior.
Since women are weaker and more delicate, then wouldn’t it make sense to let the gals ride the elevators, and for the men to walk up all the stairs?
just make the ladies take the stairs with the kids and grocerys.
It never stops. Unless we wake up and put a stop to these things it will all be coming right here to America.
Let’s start with separate chuppah’s the Kallah is not allowed to be the center stage
Anybody thet doesnt underdtend the isue is plain nuts. Thes always botherd me and mine and i am plening to fli to EY IYH so soon as dere are seperate flights.
As the Tora says:
הֵן-רַבִּים עַתָּה עַם הָאָרֶץ
Too many ignoramuses!
There is no problem of Yichud if there is a surveillance camera in the elevator.
There is no problem of Yichud if it is two or more men with a woman.
There is no problem of Yichud if the elevator ride is less than a minute.
Most poskim hold there is no prohibition of Yichud in a car while driving on streets.
too many chumros, not enough common sense.
Segregated elevators actually makes more sense than anything else.
If men are uncomfortable riding in an elevator with women, wait for the next trip or better yet, walk.
If the residents all consented then why need signs, everyone knows where to go. I have no problem with ppl putting additional chumras on themselves, it’s when they force it on others that we have a problem.
How is it that we allow husbands and wives to sleep in the same bedroom? Shouldn’t the wives have to sleep on the couch in the living room?
This is not a chumrah! it’s a convenience for the women because according to some poskim there can be a issur of yichud d’orayseh in elevators and frum women had a problem riding the elevators unless there where at least two men there so they constructed another small elevator for the men to make it easy for the women just like NYC has a law that you need more women’s rest rooms in public places so women don’t have to wait in line for a longer time then the men.
What a nice thing of the charedim to think about and (truly) respect the women.
let these freaks seperate in their own bedrooms….is this yiddishkeit???neagtive dull depressing…or is yiddishkeit meaningful joy love ect…? how sad !!!
Kol hakovod modiin illit!
Maybe the men ought to take the stairs.
A guy goes into a bank in israel and sees two lines 1 only men and 1 only ladies…
So he says this is crazy this separation also in the bank!!!
Someone then whispers in his ears.. its no separation here, just 1 line is deposits and 1 line is withdrawals!
How did they get the consent of the community? Women aren’t allowed to be involved in any public decisions. Maybe they got the consent of the rabbis, or the men, at most.
In addition there is NO problem of Yichud if there is a fear of being interrupted. i.e. not complete privacy. The fact that the elevator can open at any second on any floor, negates any and all problems with Yichud, COMPLETELY. Certainly if the elevator has a camera, or one is riding with a relative, or there are multiple men…
again, never underestimate the stupidity with which you are confronted.
These people are not religious Jews, they are cultural Jews. And cultural plagiarists at that. They see ‘pious’ Muslims segregating women ad absurdum. Naturally these so called ‘religious’ Jews need to ape that behavior.
Let us not forget a Nazir is called a Sinner (chote). -and that is a ‘frum’ Torah sanctioned Chumrah!
this one is a prank. as long as there is no acceptable Rub or bais din (and i done mean the Edah) publicly proclaiming that this is the way to go then i accept this for what it is a PRANK so people stop being so offended…..
I think they should just get an escalator
I think only senior citizens or people with packages should be allowed to use any elevator, everyone else could use the exercise, hoof it !
Ridiculous.
These people are going the way of the Shakers. That means soon there will be no such people.
I call your attention to a book written in 1951 “The Disappearance” by Philip Wylie.
Truly ehrliche yidden don’t spend their time thinking about women….
My rebbe told me that there was once a bachur in a yeshiva who wrote a sefer on hilchos niddah, and when he brought it to the Steipler, he threw it and said “get this nivel peh away from me”. The idea is that when you see people involved in issues with women, it could be Torah lishma, but if it’s all they talk about, it’s just because they’re using these laws as a derranged sexual outlet.
I’m afraid that these people are holding by this….
Once the if-a-little-sexism-is-good-alot-is-better view takes hold, there is no end.
I have a great idea! How about separate cities? Just kidding – but you know, it would make about as much sense.
maybe they just should institute different hours when woman and men can go out in public
It’s interesting to now that these are not the “SIKRIKIM” we are talking here about a litvishe town – I wonder how you would have reacted if this would have happened in Beit Shemesh or anywhere else to so called Sikrikim live..
watch out though … the men’s elevator goes straight down to hell.
Better idea, have the men use the stairs! That way we can address obesity at the same time. And hey, weight loss reduces plaque buildup in the brain, and that could actually help, too.
To # 51
Really ? that’s not what the Pasuk is talking about? that there were too many ‘amHaratzim’ ? Really??
About Nazir, that’s right!! he’s a chote because he is too machmir on himself. Similarly one who makes Nedarim to forbid things on himself…אמרו חכמים כל הנודר כאילו בנה במה even if one fulfills them!
There is NO Yichud problem in an elevator at all.
There is NO DeOraysa issue at all.
Chasid Shoteh!
Dear Friends, while I find this story quite disturbing, I find of the name calling towards one another even more so. On the topic of the story, I will say this, while some or maybe even many may see this as overly siimplistic. As I see all these issues of segregation, spitting on children, physically attacking people because of their mode of dress etc, all go in direct contradiction of the commandment that we shall neither add to nor subtract from Hashem’s Torah. Yet almost every day we have new “interpretations” of “proper behavior”.
I suspect that whem Moshiach does come, he’ll call over all the yidden from all over the world, line us all up and give us one big communal smack across the face and say something like “Schmucks, I gave you 10 commandments, and look what you did!”
If we’re supposed to be a light unto the world, no wonder it’s as screwed up as it is!