![Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok Rebbe [L]Toldos Aharon [R]](http://www.vinnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ah5.jpg "ah5")
Long Island, NY – The smart money says criticism of this weekend’s visit to Lawrence by an anti-Zionist chassidic rebbe from Jerusalem aligned with the Neturei Karta will be dismissed by some as the work of troublemaking bloggers (or perhaps of a muckraking newspaper that’s too modern for its own good).
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What chutzpah! defenders of the Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok Rebbe will fume. Rabbi Shmuel Yaakov Kohn is an adom gadol — a great man — a tzaddik, a talmid chachom, and a paragon of Yiras Shamayim and gemilas chasodim, too.
Very likely, that’s all true.
It is, however, not at all the point.
The Rebbe’s followers — at least a good number of them — are thugs and criminals who created an unprecedented desecration of G-d’s name with their violent street protests in Jerusalem.
In a few short weeks they managed to undo and turn around — v’nahafoch hu — a general perception of observant Jews as peaceful and genteel. In some cases they even altered our own self-perception; more than a few frum Jews this summer reported feeling discomfort at being seen as kin to the Orthodox hooligans in the news.
Yet, this weekend, in a display of shocking naïveté, the Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok Rebbe is to be feted and honored — and funded — at Cong. Shaaray Tefila in Lawrence, even as the Rebbe’s brother, the even more extreme Toldos Aharon Rebbe, is making his own appearances in the New York area.
Make no mistake: there are female members of nearly every shul in this region who would run the real risk of being physically attacked, were they to walk in their everyday street clothes through neighborhoods in Jerusalem and Beit Shemesh these rebbes control.
While well-meaning people in the Five Towns are proffering respect and kavod haTorah to someone who looks very different from them but ostensibly observes the same Torah, ask yourself if the Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok or the Toldos Aharon communities would be terribly likely to extend the same courtesy in the reverse? Same tefillin, same mikvah, same Shabbos, same kosher. But not to them. Does that make us forgiving or foolish?
There are people in our community who cannot pay their mortgage. Who cannot pay tuition. Families that are in crisis and simply cannot make ends meet. They need and are entitled to our help first, based on the halachic ruling of aniyei ircha kodmim. It’s a shame if the community as a whole hasn’t yet internalized the Torah’s guideline, that charity must begin at home.
For those who say that Israel is local, and that supporting Torah study remains a primary value no matter what, fine — there are plenty of other kollelim and plenty of people in Israel who are more in line with our values.
You want a photo op with someone in Yerushalmi garb? Great. Go to Israel.
But here at home, why don’t we reserve scarce tzedakah dollars for people who don’t hold us in such low regard?
ya if the women in the five town would wear pants and sleeveless in meah sharim they would be thrown out.
They don’t belong in meah sharim!!
I was thinking the same thing when I heard these two “Rabbonim” were coming to the USA. If we want to change things around we need to stop giving money to these kinds of “organzations”.
No argument here. I don’t wish anything bad on them, but at the same time they would never get any money from me, nor any kind of warm welcome in my community. They (whether intentionally or unintentionally) encourage violence, sinas chinam, and foster a hatred of all frum yidden.
Until they decide to clean up their own house, they will not be welcome in mine. At the same time, I wish them well and I hope they find the kind of chessed and ahavas yisroel that is missing from their lives.
Having a beard and black hat is no longer enough – there should be midos and ahavas yisroel as well.
they are not representative of Chasidic rabbies and should be treated as such and shuned
Shame on the jewish star, well they are not a star when talking on erliche yiden
Why support peoople who put forth such a negative stereotype of Judaism? Are we supporting Chilul Hashem when we give them dollars. Is it beneficial to the image and survival of yiddiahkeit to have images in the press of women beaten by ‘religious’ vigilantes, by unkempt men screaming “nazi” at policemen (as if the Nazis wrongdoing was allowing parking garages to remain open on Shabbos). Are we supporting Israel by giving these institutions dollars, or are we offering a helping hand to those that shameus and make us look archaic, mean spirited foolish? Isn’t our money better spent supporting our hard working schools whose values we share, or helping our struggeling neighbor facing foreclosure? Terrible things have
I think that most people are missing the point, when the Rebbe’s come to fund raise, they are only doing Hishtadlus to fund raise for their Mosdos, if you decide to give or not, is totally your choice, at the end of the day your donation will not effect them either way, because the money is coming from Hashem and he decides how much the Rebbe’s should raise, so if you want to have a part of the Mitzvah you can, if you choose not to you are the looser.
in Jewish history we always had those who screamed and protest when it was time to GIVE Tzodaka, but when it comes time to make a big deal most people will never say, well he is a Toldos……..Chosid so I will not deal with him.
Disgusting that one who claims to be jewish can write such stupidity
Unfortunately, there is no direct evidence linking these two so called “gadolim” to the multiple crimes perpetrated by their followers in the name of Tzinus. Otherwise, there might be some basis for serving them with arrest warrants for human rights violations. That, however, is not a realistic option under U.S. law, but ayone giving them a dime is sharing in the guilt of their efforts to surpress yiddeshe women no differently than the Taliban in Kabul.
absolutly right we should first give scarce tzedakah money for people who have respect for us not for those who disrespect us this article is 100 per cent right i am ashamed to see intelligent people who are duped by others who dont give a dammn about them just their money this is the height of arrogance by toldos by the way they would be infinitly better of if they learn a trade
You are all highly ignorant never ever has a toldos avrohom yitschok followere ever been involved in any of these atrocities. The rebbe has spoken out many times against any of this behaviour and happens to be extremely accepting and loving of all people no matter what their affiliation may be. The group netiurai karta happens to have the same dress code and comparing them to TAY is like saying all jews look the same and act the same.
There’s no question that these two Rebbes are tzadikim, gedolim, and manhigei yisroel. There’s also no question that they are both virulently anti-zioniist and their followers have engaged in violent confrontations, causing hardship losses for many yidden, all in the name of halacha and yiddishkeit. Now these Rebbes come to Long Island, to ardently zionist communities, for money. Their money is kosher but their shita in treif? At least the founding father of anti-zionism, Rav Yoel Teitelbaum ZTZL Satmar Rebbe, was not a hypocrite. He did not accept money from open zionists. While not condoning nor condemning various religious practices of 5 Towns yidden, the majority are in direct conflict with those of these two Rebbes and would result in stone throwing and derision if they and their families visited Meah Shearim, as evidenced almost daily.
by reading this article I must say that this write is biased against chasidim. If one person makes achillul hasem does it mean the whole klaal is resposible. These rabbis condemed already the vilont actions that are committed by some of theor comunity. The torah demeans us to protest when others are not doind the right thing. At least we have some whoe are the shilu tziber for all.
regarding them not allowing somone who does not wear modest clothing. Read the signs before you enter their shcuna. It clearly says if you don’t follow the rules you are not welcomed. Versas five towns is a open comunity. I guess if they are invited they are welcomed.
now don’t blame the rabbi for people dying for hungar locally. If you really want give for your locals first Ianiyei ircha kodmim does not mean ianiyei ertz yisroel not. I mange to do both.
now talking about ianiyei ircha kodmim the biggest donars to israeli zionist are americans. Did you ever ask them why they are giving for the locals first?
Didn’t expect anything better from the hateful Jewish star, they can’t hide their unlimited hate to Hasidim and frum yidden.
So now its criminal and thuggery to stick up for Shabbos and libels!!!!!
and boycott the gemorrah, rambam, S’U (hilchos yom tov).’.chaiyiv bes din lehamid shotrim bashuken uverchovos cedai shelo yovu lidei pritzus’..and thanks for PMO, formally etc., in not disappointing us ehrliche shomrei torah yidden by showing all over that you are against S’U. and of course the ‘jewish’ star is a ‘great’ proponent of ‘derch yisroel sava’
I recently cut my share of tzedakas Eretz Yisroel to help more local charities, but now seeing a so called boycott not by Nazi germans, not by the KKK, to my shock by a “jewish” paper, so I will try to give a nice generous donation to those 2 prominent kehilos and mosdos.
So ahavas yisroel means loving secularists and mechalelei shabos, and only apikorsim? and observant yidden is a “mitzva” to hate?
Shame on the Jewish star for preaching sinas yisroel!
Maybe if they greeted them warmly and respectfully, they will see that modernism is not bad, and will learn to change. Holding back funds may serve as an exercise in “teaching them a lesson” it won’t get them to change.
Extend to them the same respect that we would get if we visited their neighborhoods.
Shocking to read such ignorance. Pure lies If the Star could name even one Toldos avrohom chossid who ever beat up a women in bet shemesh i will eat my hat You should be sued for libel. Its about time people get to realise that there are different sects and different ideoligies. Never has Tolodos Avrohom Yitschok ever supported any of thes atrocities
thanks vin for posting this article, I m pledging a huge donation for them, thanks to that sinas chinam article.
whats the surprise? the word Boycott is used lightly in the 5towns it don’t matter to them if it’s someones parnossah or a chassidish rabbi to them çhassidish blood is hefker. i think the vaad should encourage more boycotts and put people out of business maybe then moshiach will come.
Meyer Fertig i am suprised at you!!
and you are suprised there are that many forclosures?
hashem has a long long memory 3yrs ago Gourmet Glatt, does it ring a bell to anyone?
An article full of lies from top to toe, obviously, they are both against Neturei Karta, and its very well known that toldos aharon rebbe preaches against violence, he does not let his chasidim just go to any protest unless he knows there will be order and no violence, he is a real mentch, besides that he found jobs for hundreds of his chasidim so they’re supporting their families and don’t hang around the Jerusalem streets.
I’m from the 5 towns, nice try Jewish Star, to besmirch a kehillah in EY, the inheritors of the mantle of the Yishuv Hayoshon, and smugly believe that we are better because there are woman in our community who have lower standards than that community and would feel unwelcome is beyond ludicrous. It is a sin of the highest magnitude, lishnah bishah on a Kehillah built on Torah and Avodah. The people of this neighborhood have a privilege to be partners with them in their endeavors, and you would deny it because of your warped, small minded outlook. I am not mekaneh you.
Unfortunately, one of the more important points in the article was lost. There are far too many yidden in our local communities to be hosting rebbes from eretz yisroel. Whether you like them or not, aniyei ircha kodmim.
They can’t be totally blamed for the violence.
They do this in order to get funds from Satmar USA.
Satmar will only support them if they show something for the Money they receive.
So now they have a tough decision to make, it’s either Satmar funds & keep up the violence, or Lawrence funds & behave like Humans.
Let’s see which one they’ll choose
No one is forcing you to give.
Im not Neturei Karta, BUT RABOISAI, come on! These people live in Israel and YES hold up the Torah, without them there would be buses and a complete sham of our EYisroel, they have a tafkid as do we
so i see that in the 5 towns strong hold of the true jews the ones which understood what the chofetz chaim wanted preach about shmerias haloshon had the flood gates opened. every word was weighed and measured, everyone privatley investigated if every story what was written is true.
Too bad the fact is that even the non chasidshe jews in israel are still frumer than the jews which live in the 5 towns the day will come you will hate them too!!
what a shame.
hatefull article
If they don’t take money from Israel, they shouldn’t take money from Zionists either.
I am at loss as to how the article has arrived at an Halachik determination of what constitutes Chillul Hashem.
If a I went in to a hospital and did surgery (i Am not a Doc) I would be a “Rotzeach”, Giving PISAK in matters that require a Godol is a greater danger!
Did the writer learn through the Halochos of Chillul Shem Shomayim? I am afraid not.
It is easy to tell people not to give support for Torah institutions as our evil inclination doesn’t want us to give tzdakkah in the first place. Is the article stating that we only support rabbis that allow women to wear “Untzniusdika” clothes? How about Rabbis that give too much mussar? too “Yeshivish” or too Frumed out?
The Old Satmar Rebbi Rabbi Joel Titelbaum helped everyone who came to him, Yes even if they were from Aguda or Mizrachi. Teaching our children to live a certain lifestyle does not preclude us from assisting those who live differently as long as we follow the Torah.
Our weakness on certain issues of how our women dress does not mean we cannot support rabbis who are not lax on these halachik matters.
This article is full of lies. I take my sons to the Toldos Ahron Tish whenever I’m in Yerusholayim. I’m always treated with respect even though I don’t wear a black hat.
we shouldnt speak so badly of any gadol, even an anti-zionist one
Like them or not, everyone should be giving in their own community before supporting rebbes from eretz yisroel. In the 5 towns community, there are families who have lost all of their means of support in the economic downturn, there are children whose parents cannot affort to put food on the table, there are children who are being pulled from yeshivas and enrolled in public school because parents can’t affort tuition. Where is the outcry for the needy of our community? Why are there tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars being given to every single rebbe who can find someone to host them in the community? Where are our priorities?
The people welcoming this Rebbe have no self respect. Why would you welcome a rabid anti Zionist into a community and a shul that was built based on principals of religious Zionism? Why give money to institutions that abhor your way of life and those of your neighbors? Could you not find a more moderate Rebbe to bring in to make yourselves feel good and important or only the most extreme will suffice for you people? What kind of a message does it send to your children that these are the types of people you honor, bring into town and give your money to. HAVE YOU NO SHAME?
I say let them collect their money in Israel and leave us alone. We need to take care of our own people first.
B”H those 2 erliche moysdes do NOT need any $$$ from people who dont want to support them..They always were financed by erliche yidden from the whole world who have a connection to Torah,yires Shemayim,and Chasidus….The Divrei Yoel z”tl used to say…..Vy and bitter will be the day az mier velen gefeflen far the gass….b”h those 2 chasidis are NOT the liking of any anti chasidis,torah,yires shemyim…
Just because some criticize some yiddin does not them or me are Jew haters. I hate certain Jews since they do or represent bad things.
Let see in writing’s were this robonum told there chasideim to stop the violence?
Am I reading right? a boycott of yiden against yiden?
Reminds me of Nazi Germany 1939, shame on jews who try to act like that, ugly!
isn’t it a pity the jew”ish” star wasn’t around at the time of the amoroim, they could’ve boycotted R’Ada bar ahava and his yeshiva for tearing off the untznius clothes of a woman in the street!
The facts are Satmar is building all over eretz yisroel and more than anyone today. Most young Satmars today, while not agreeing with the Zionist govt- are not neturei Karta and love the people of eretz yisroel. They have a right to believe or not believe , We unfortunately think all Satmar are Neturei Karta- NOT TRUE AND NEVER WAS TRUE! Israel is the only country in the world where real estate has gone UP ( YES! UP!) 12% a year. The problem is that like with Madooff (non-religous jews mostly) and in the US myself included — the Charedi community has been swindled by it’s own in billions of shekels. Their Gemachsd like here have been pilfered and Americas donors are gone. Start cleaning the streets and shuls, Go to schools – the goodtimes easy rides here and US is OVER!!!!!!!!!!! and computers will also get all cheats !! u ain’t going to outsmart the medina anymore! And your acquiesence to the violent riots will now cause a backlash in AMerica and the seculAR iSRAELIS. u BURIED YOURSELVES DEEPER. tHAT IS WHAT THESE RABBIS DO NOT UNDERSTAND. hELP YOUR BROTHERS HERE FIRST THEN OTHER COUNTIRES !
I should really just go on and not comment on this infuriating article but i feel i just have to say the truth. Toldos Avraham Yitzchok chasidim did NOT go out and protest the rebbi was VERY against it. The rebbi did not go to the mocha on shabbos that many Gedolim did attend stating that “They are more powerfull and we cannot fight them; our only strength is thru keeping shabbos stronger than ever” So to whoever wrote this article please check out the facts beforehand especially when regarding such a sensitive issue….
SHAME SHAME “FOOLISH STAR”!!!
Isn’t it kind of hypocritical to criticize leaders of Jewish communities of Yerusholaim Ir Hakodesh – even if they are extremely uncompromising & intolerant – while stating in the same article that it is the NORM in your community to violate the same Halachos that they are fighting for?
Maybe this will help boost The Jewish Star adversting revenue
So this piece of trash, aka Jewish Dimmed Star, knows more about halacha etc., than rabonim chashuvim? PHEH!!! When the editorial staff of that rag is burning in ghenim for supporting all the anti halocha they are associated with in their community, they will SCREAM OUT BEGGING for these admorim to save them from their plight.
You dont want to agree with them, thats one thing. BTW maybe you should have a sit down interview with them so you could at least “hear” their side. We are talking yiddishkeit here, we are talking halocha. You may have your rabbonim and that is perfectly fine but no matter which branch of yididshekeit you belong to, there are other sides. YI, OU, YU etc are NOT the only d’rochim.
Shame on you!
Wonderful, wonderful article. At last there is a voice willing to speak emes and yashrus and not just ignore the tremendous examples of chillul hashem that are being perpetrated in our time…now how about an article on how our organizations should deal with child molesters and fraudsters in our midst?