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Long Island, NY - Jewish Star Editorial Calls Out The Two Chasidic Toldos Rebbe's Over Their Support For Vigilantes

Published on: November 4, 2009 08:55 AM
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Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok Rebbe [L]Toldos Aharon [R]Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok Rebbe [L]Toldos Aharon [R]

Long Island, NY - The smart money says criticism of this weekend’s visit to Lawrence by an anti-Zionist chassidic rebbe from Jerusalem aligned with the Neturei Karta will be dismissed by some as the work of troublemaking bloggers (or perhaps of a muckraking newspaper that’s too modern for its own good).

What chutzpah! defenders of the Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok Rebbe will fume. Rabbi Shmuel Yaakov Kohn is an adom gadol — a great man — a tzaddik, a talmid chachom, and a paragon of Yiras Shamayim and gemilas chasodim, too.

Very likely, that’s all true.

It is, however, not at all the point.

The Rebbe’s followers — at least a good number of them — are thugs and criminals who created an unprecedented desecration of G-d’s name with their violent street protests in Jerusalem.

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In a few short weeks they managed to undo and turn around — v’nahafoch hu — a general perception of observant Jews as peaceful and genteel. In some cases they even altered our own self-perception; more than a few frum Jews this summer reported feeling discomfort at being seen as kin to the Orthodox hooligans in the news.

Yet, this weekend, in a display of shocking naïveté, the Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok Rebbe is to be feted and honored — and funded — at Cong. Shaaray Tefila in Lawrence, even as the Rebbe’s brother, the even more extreme Toldos Aharon Rebbe, is making his own appearances in the New York area.

Make no mistake: there are female members of nearly every shul in this region who would run the real risk of being physically attacked, were they to walk in their everyday street clothes through neighborhoods in Jerusalem and Beit Shemesh these rebbes control.

While well-meaning people in the Five Towns are proffering respect and kavod haTorah to someone who looks very different from them but ostensibly observes the same Torah, ask yourself if the Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok or the Toldos Aharon communities would be terribly likely to extend the same courtesy in the reverse? Same tefillin, same mikvah, same Shabbos, same kosher. But not to them. Does that make us forgiving or foolish?

There are people in our community who cannot pay their mortgage. Who cannot pay tuition. Families that are in crisis and simply cannot make ends meet. They need and are entitled to our help first, based on the halachic ruling of aniyei ircha kodmim. It’s a shame if the community as a whole hasn’t yet internalized the Torah’s guideline, that charity must begin at home.

For those who say that Israel is local, and that supporting Torah study remains a primary value no matter what, fine — there are plenty of other kollelim and plenty of people in Israel who are more in line with our values.

You want a photo op with someone in Yerushalmi garb? Great. Go to Israel.

But here at home, why don’t we reserve scarce tzedakah dollars for people who don’t hold us in such low regard?


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1

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:01 AM FBF Says:

I was thinking the same thing when I heard these two "Rabbonim" were coming to the USA. If we want to change things around we need to stop giving money to these kinds of "organzations".

2

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:02 AM PMO Says:

No argument here. I don't wish anything bad on them, but at the same time they would never get any money from me, nor any kind of warm welcome in my community. They (whether intentionally or unintentionally) encourage violence, sinas chinam, and foster a hatred of all frum yidden.

Until they decide to clean up their own house, they will not be welcome in mine. At the same time, I wish them well and I hope they find the kind of chessed and ahavas yisroel that is missing from their lives.

3

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:14 AM Dovid Says:

Having a beard and black hat is no longer enough - there should be midos and ahavas yisroel as well.

4

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:00 AM Anonymous Says:

ya if the women in the five town would wear pants and sleeveless in meah sharim they would be thrown out.
They don't belong in meah sharim!!

5

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:17 AM dovid Says:

Why support peoople who put forth such a negative stereotype of Judaism? Are we supporting Chilul Hashem when we give them dollars. Is it beneficial to the image and survival of yiddiahkeit to have images in the press of women beaten by 'religious' vigilantes, by unkempt men screaming "nazi" at policemen (as if the Nazis wrongdoing was allowing parking garages to remain open on Shabbos). Are we supporting Israel by giving these institutions dollars, or are we offering a helping hand to those that shameus and make us look archaic, mean spirited foolish? Isn't our money better spent supporting our hard working schools whose values we share, or helping our struggeling neighbor facing foreclosure? Terrible things have

6

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:16 AM Anonymous Says:

Shame on the jewish star, well they are not a star when talking on erliche yiden

7

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:15 AM formally Says:

they are not representative of Chasidic rabbies and should be treated as such and shuned

8

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:36 AM Anonymous Says:

So now its criminal and thuggery to stick up for Shabbos and libels!!!!!

9

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Didn't expect anything better from the hateful Jewish star, they can't hide their unlimited hate to Hasidim and frum yidden.

10

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:38 AM Anonymous Says:

I recently cut my share of tzedakas Eretz Yisroel to help more local charities, but now seeing a so called boycott not by Nazi germans, not by the KKK, to my shock by a "jewish" paper, so I will try to give a nice generous donation to those 2 prominent kehilos and mosdos.

11

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:37 AM berel Says:

and boycott the gemorrah, rambam, S'U (hilchos yom tov).'.chaiyiv bes din lehamid shotrim bashuken uverchovos cedai shelo yovu lidei pritzus'..and thanks for PMO, formally etc., in not disappointing us ehrliche shomrei torah yidden by showing all over that you are against S'U. and of course the 'jewish' star is a 'great' proponent of 'derch yisroel sava'

12

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
formally Says:

they are not representative of Chasidic rabbies and should be treated as such and shuned

whatever you say I know to do the opposite, as you proved to be a real sone yisroel.
if u say not to support them, then I surely will support them by all means.

13

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:43 AM dov Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

I recently cut my share of tzedakas Eretz Yisroel to help more local charities, but now seeing a so called boycott not by Nazi germans, not by the KKK, to my shock by a "jewish" paper, so I will try to give a nice generous donation to those 2 prominent kehilos and mosdos.

please 'jewish' paper? this is a sonei torah paper...

14

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:43 AM go'el yisrael Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

So now its criminal and thuggery to stick up for Shabbos and libels!!!!!

When they use violence and physical beatings, yes, it IS criminal!

15

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:41 AM AuthenticSatmar Says:

Maybe if they greeted them warmly and respectfully, they will see that modernism is not bad, and will learn to change. Holding back funds may serve as an exercise in "teaching them a lesson" it won't get them to change.

16

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:40 AM Anonymous Says:

So ahavas yisroel means loving secularists and mechalelei shabos, and only apikorsim? and observant yidden is a "mitzva" to hate?
Shame on the Jewish star for preaching sinas yisroel!

17

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:31 AM anti biased Says:

by reading this article I must say that this write is biased against chasidim. If one person makes achillul hasem does it mean the whole klaal is resposible. These rabbis condemed already the vilont actions that are committed by some of theor comunity. The torah demeans us to protest when others are not doind the right thing. At least we have some whoe are the shilu tziber for all.
regarding them not allowing somone who does not wear modest clothing. Read the signs before you enter their shcuna. It clearly says if you don't follow the rules you are not welcomed. Versas five towns is a open comunity. I guess if they are invited they are welcomed.
now don't blame the rabbi for people dying for hungar locally. If you really want give for your locals first Ianiyei ircha kodmim does not mean ianiyei ertz yisroel not. I mange to do both.
now talking about ianiyei ircha kodmim the biggest donars to israeli zionist are americans. Did you ever ask them why they are giving for the locals first?

18

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:28 AM Chaim S. Says:

There's no question that these two Rebbes are tzadikim, gedolim, and manhigei yisroel. There's also no question that they are both virulently anti-zioniist and their followers have engaged in violent confrontations, causing hardship losses for many yidden, all in the name of halacha and yiddishkeit. Now these Rebbes come to Long Island, to ardently zionist communities, for money. Their money is kosher but their shita in treif? At least the founding father of anti-zionism, Rav Yoel Teitelbaum ZTZL Satmar Rebbe, was not a hypocrite. He did not accept money from open zionists. While not condoning nor condemning various religious practices of 5 Towns yidden, the majority are in direct conflict with those of these two Rebbes and would result in stone throwing and derision if they and their families visited Meah Shearim, as evidenced almost daily.

19

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:28 AM Anonymous Says:

You are all highly ignorant never ever has a toldos avrohom yitschok followere ever been involved in any of these atrocities. The rebbe has spoken out many times against any of this behaviour and happens to be extremely accepting and loving of all people no matter what their affiliation may be. The group netiurai karta happens to have the same dress code and comparing them to TAY is like saying all jews look the same and act the same.

20

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:22 AM lishma Says:

absolutly right we should first give scarce tzedakah money for people who have respect for us not for those who disrespect us this article is 100 per cent right i am ashamed to see intelligent people who are duped by others who dont give a dammn about them just their money this is the height of arrogance by toldos by the way they would be infinitly better of if they learn a trade

21

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Unfortunately, there is no direct evidence linking these two so called "gadolim" to the multiple crimes perpetrated by their followers in the name of Tzinus. Otherwise, there might be some basis for serving them with arrest warrants for human rights violations. That, however, is not a realistic option under U.S. law, but ayone giving them a dime is sharing in the guilt of their efforts to surpress yiddeshe women no differently than the Taliban in Kabul.

22

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Disgusting that one who claims to be jewish can write such stupidity

23

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:20 AM NJ Mom Says:

Reply to #3  
Dovid Says:

Having a beard and black hat is no longer enough - there should be midos and ahavas yisroel as well.

Having midos and ahavas yisroel is enough; doesn't matter how you dress.

24

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:20 AM Big Masmid Says:

I think that most people are missing the point, when the Rebbe's come to fund raise, they are only doing Hishtadlus to fund raise for their Mosdos, if you decide to give or not, is totally your choice, at the end of the day your donation will not effect them either way, because the money is coming from Hashem and he decides how much the Rebbe's should raise, so if you want to have a part of the Mitzvah you can, if you choose not to you are the looser.

in Jewish history we always had those who screamed and protest when it was time to GIVE Tzodaka, but when it comes time to make a big deal most people will never say, well he is a Toldos........Chosid so I will not deal with him.

25

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:54 AM Anonymous Says:

An article full of lies from top to toe, obviously, they are both against Neturei Karta, and its very well known that toldos aharon rebbe preaches against violence, he does not let his chasidim just go to any protest unless he knows there will be order and no violence, he is a real mentch, besides that he found jobs for hundreds of his chasidim so they're supporting their families and don't hang around the Jerusalem streets.

26

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:54 AM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

ya if the women in the five town would wear pants and sleeveless in meah sharim they would be thrown out.
They don't belong in meah sharim!!

Then do the two rabbis belong in Lawrence? Think about what you say!

27

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:52 AM Anonymous Says:

whats the surprise? the word Boycott is used lightly in the 5towns it don't matter to them if it's someones parnossah or a chassidish rabbi to them çhassidish blood is hefker. i think the vaad should encourage more boycotts and put people out of business maybe then moshiach will come.
Meyer Fertig i am suprised at you!!
and you are suprised there are that many forclosures?

hashem has a long long memory 3yrs ago Gourmet Glatt, does it ring a bell to anyone?

28

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:49 AM neutral Says:

thanks vin for posting this article, I m pledging a huge donation for them, thanks to that sinas chinam article.

29

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:47 AM Anonymous Says:

Shocking to read such ignorance. Pure lies If the Star could name even one Toldos avrohom chossid who ever beat up a women in bet shemesh i will eat my hat You should be sued for libel. Its about time people get to realise that there are different sects and different ideoligies. Never has Tolodos Avrohom Yitschok ever supported any of thes atrocities

30

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:45 AM JT Says:

Extend to them the same respect that we would get if we visited their neighborhoods.

31

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:10 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #30  
JT Says:

Extend to them the same respect that we would get if we visited their neighborhoods.

To all you ignorant souls out there its about time you learnt some facts. The toldos avraham yitschok rebbe was the closest disciple of the imrei chaim from vishnitz. The Imrei Chaim was the most pro zionist leader of all times by the chassidim. His gabbai Rabbi Mozez is today a member in the knesset under the UTJ party. The TAY Rebbe never succeded his father since he never followed his fathers extreme views. He therefore opened up a new group with a new name with complete different views.
Never Ever has a tay chossid ever lifted up his hand against any person in bet shemesh. The Blogger calls his followers Thugs. I challenge you to name me one person from this following who ever was charged with thuggery or was ever involoved in this kind of behaviour. On the contary the rebbe continously promotes peace and is constantly preaching acceptance and love for fellow jews no matter what their affiliation may be. He actually condemmed all of the violence many times!!!!!

32

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:19 AM Anonymous Says:

what a shame.

hatefull article

33

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Im not Neturei Karta, BUT RABOISAI, come on! These people live in Israel and YES hold up the Torah, without them there would be buses and a complete sham of our EYisroel, they have a tafkid as do we

34

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:12 AM chossid Says:

No one is forcing you to give.

35

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:12 AM Moshe Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

So ahavas yisroel means loving secularists and mechalelei shabos, and only apikorsim? and observant yidden is a "mitzva" to hate?
Shame on the Jewish star for preaching sinas yisroel!

Yes ahavas yisroel mean loving even secularists and mechalilei shabbos - they are yiddin too and you can be mekarev them

36

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:01 AM Monsey Misnaged Says:

Reply to #24  
Big Masmid Says:

I think that most people are missing the point, when the Rebbe's come to fund raise, they are only doing Hishtadlus to fund raise for their Mosdos, if you decide to give or not, is totally your choice, at the end of the day your donation will not effect them either way, because the money is coming from Hashem and he decides how much the Rebbe's should raise, so if you want to have a part of the Mitzvah you can, if you choose not to you are the looser.

in Jewish history we always had those who screamed and protest when it was time to GIVE Tzodaka, but when it comes time to make a big deal most people will never say, well he is a Toldos........Chosid so I will not deal with him.

Tzedakah money is mamon shel hekdesh which makes each of us an apitropos of hekdesh with regard to the money we give. It is assur to give holy money to these two non-Jews.

37

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:00 AM Brookleener Says:

They can't be totally blamed for the violence.
They do this in order to get funds from Satmar USA.
Satmar will only support them if they show something for the Money they receive.
So now they have a tough decision to make, it's either Satmar funds & keep up the violence, or Lawrence funds & behave like Humans.
Let's see which one they'll choose

38

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:24 AM YES Says:

Reply to #26  
Charlie Hall Says:

Then do the two rabbis belong in Lawrence? Think about what you say!

What are u trying to say!? that if there are some people that wear pants in the 5 towns your not allowed to go!? Think about what you say!!!

39

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:25 AM Anonymous Says:

I am at loss as to how the article has arrived at an Halachik determination of what constitutes Chillul Hashem.
If a I went in to a hospital and did surgery (i Am not a Doc) I would be a "Rotzeach", Giving PISAK in matters that require a Godol is a greater danger!

Did the writer learn through the Halochos of Chillul Shem Shomayim? I am afraid not.

It is easy to tell people not to give support for Torah institutions as our evil inclination doesn't want us to give tzdakkah in the first place. Is the article stating that we only support rabbis that allow women to wear "Untzniusdika" clothes? How about Rabbis that give too much mussar? too "Yeshivish" or too Frumed out?

The Old Satmar Rebbi Rabbi Joel Titelbaum helped everyone who came to him, Yes even if they were from Aguda or Mizrachi. Teaching our children to live a certain lifestyle does not preclude us from assisting those who live differently as long as we follow the Torah.
Our weakness on certain issues of how our women dress does not mean we cannot support rabbis who are not lax on these halachik matters.

40

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:22 AM shmarye Says:

Reply to #28  
neutral Says:

thanks vin for posting this article, I m pledging a huge donation for them, thanks to that sinas chinam article.

this si not a 'sinas chinom' article its gedole sinas am haretz l'talmud chacham yoser misinas akum es yisroel'

41

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:21 AM Anonymous Says:

If they don't take money from Israel, they shouldn't take money from Zionists either.

42

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:17 AM Anonymous Says:

so i see that in the 5 towns strong hold of the true jews the ones which understood what the chofetz chaim wanted preach about shmerias haloshon had the flood gates opened. every word was weighed and measured, everyone privatley investigated if every story what was written is true.
Too bad the fact is that even the non chasidshe jews in israel are still frumer than the jews which live in the 5 towns the day will come you will hate them too!!

43

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:11 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
Anonymous Says:

An article full of lies from top to toe, obviously, they are both against Neturei Karta, and its very well known that toldos aharon rebbe preaches against violence, he does not let his chasidim just go to any protest unless he knows there will be order and no violence, he is a real mentch, besides that he found jobs for hundreds of his chasidim so they're supporting their families and don't hang around the Jerusalem streets.

Then why does he need money from a modern Orthodox community?

44

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:59 AM Anonymous Says:

Unfortunately, one of the more important points in the article was lost. There are far too many yidden in our local communities to be hosting rebbes from eretz yisroel. Whether you like them or not, aniyei ircha kodmim.

45

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:58 AM Anonymous Says:

I'm from the 5 towns, nice try Jewish Star, to besmirch a kehillah in EY, the inheritors of the mantle of the Yishuv Hayoshon, and smugly believe that we are better because there are woman in our community who have lower standards than that community and would feel unwelcome is beyond ludicrous. It is a sin of the highest magnitude, lishnah bishah on a Kehillah built on Torah and Avodah. The people of this neighborhood have a privilege to be partners with them in their endeavors, and you would deny it because of your warped, small minded outlook. I am not mekaneh you.

46

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:58 AM PMO Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

So now its criminal and thuggery to stick up for Shabbos and libels!!!!!

No... it is criminal to beat up women, vandalize businesses, assault police officers with rocks and commit arson.

47

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:01 AM Anonymous Says:

isn't it a pity the jew"ish" star wasn't around at the time of the amoroim, they could've boycotted R'Ada bar ahava and his yeshiva for tearing off the untznius clothes of a woman in the street!

48

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:25 AM FVNMS Says:

Reply to #11  
berel Says:

and boycott the gemorrah, rambam, S'U (hilchos yom tov).'.chaiyiv bes din lehamid shotrim bashuken uverchovos cedai shelo yovu lidei pritzus'..and thanks for PMO, formally etc., in not disappointing us ehrliche shomrei torah yidden by showing all over that you are against S'U. and of course the 'jewish' star is a 'great' proponent of 'derch yisroel sava'

so the thuggery is derech yisroel sava. noted.

49

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:24 AM FVNMS Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

So now its criminal and thuggery to stick up for Shabbos and libels!!!!!

I stick up for shabbos. But I wouldn't burn garbage cans or (ech!) spit at reporters.

50

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:23 AM 5 Town Jew Says:

Reply to #14  
go'el yisrael Says:

When they use violence and physical beatings, yes, it IS criminal!

I was at one of the demonstrations that was photographed, videotaped and widely disseminated on the internet and other media. Not surprisingly the no one sees the retzicha and violence, the mean-spirited teasing, water throwing, hat smashing perpetrated by the police. They just show reaction of people that lose it after being pushed to the limit. It is terrible to call an Israeli policeman a Nazi, it is worse for them to act like Nazis. And I live in Lawrence, dont look like a black-hatter and never liked them as much as I do since spending Elul in Yerushalaim.

51

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:22 AM Dror Says:

Maybe this will help boost The Jewish Star adversting revenue

52

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:22 AM esther Says:

Reply to #23  
NJ Mom Says:

Having midos and ahavas yisroel is enough; doesn't matter how you dress.

it needs to be both. no disrespect but tzneeus IS very important to Hashem.

53

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:22 AM FVNMS Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

Shame on the jewish star, well they are not a star when talking on erliche yiden

I'm an ehrliche Yid and I don't think the Jewish Star would have a problem with me.

54

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:21 AM mt mehdi Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

isn't it a pity the jew"ish" star wasn't around at the time of the amoroim, they could've boycotted R'Ada bar ahava and his yeshiva for tearing off the untznius clothes of a woman in the street!

Wouldn't that make the woman even more lacking in Tznius?

55

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:19 AM Anonymous Says:

Isn't it kind of hypocritical to criticize leaders of Jewish communities of Yerusholaim Ir Hakodesh - even if they are extremely uncompromising & intolerant - while stating in the same article that it is the NORM in your community to violate the same Halachos that they are fighting for?

56

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:26 AM Liberalism is a Disease! Says:

So this piece of trash, aka Jewish Dimmed Star, knows more about halacha etc., than rabonim chashuvim? PHEH!!! When the editorial staff of that rag is burning in ghenim for supporting all the anti halocha they are associated with in their community, they will SCREAM OUT BEGGING for these admorim to save them from their plight.

You dont want to agree with them, thats one thing. BTW maybe you should have a sit down interview with them so you could at least "hear" their side. We are talking yiddishkeit here, we are talking halocha. You may have your rabbonim and that is perfectly fine but no matter which branch of yididshekeit you belong to, there are other sides. YI, OU, YU etc are NOT the only d'rochim.

Shame on you!

57

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:15 AM DizzyIzzy Says:

Reply to #45  
Anonymous Says:

I'm from the 5 towns, nice try Jewish Star, to besmirch a kehillah in EY, the inheritors of the mantle of the Yishuv Hayoshon, and smugly believe that we are better because there are woman in our community who have lower standards than that community and would feel unwelcome is beyond ludicrous. It is a sin of the highest magnitude, lishnah bishah on a Kehillah built on Torah and Avodah. The people of this neighborhood have a privilege to be partners with them in their endeavors, and you would deny it because of your warped, small minded outlook. I am not mekaneh you.

Incredibly, you managed to miss or misinterpret every key point of the editorial. I suggest you reread the article slowly; perhaps out loud.

Don't worry, you can do it: reading comprehension is a practiced skill, not an innate talent.

58

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:14 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

To all you ignorant souls out there its about time you learnt some facts. The toldos avraham yitschok rebbe was the closest disciple of the imrei chaim from vishnitz. The Imrei Chaim was the most pro zionist leader of all times by the chassidim. His gabbai Rabbi Mozez is today a member in the knesset under the UTJ party. The TAY Rebbe never succeded his father since he never followed his fathers extreme views. He therefore opened up a new group with a new name with complete different views.
Never Ever has a tay chossid ever lifted up his hand against any person in bet shemesh. The Blogger calls his followers Thugs. I challenge you to name me one person from this following who ever was charged with thuggery or was ever involoved in this kind of behaviour. On the contary the rebbe continously promotes peace and is constantly preaching acceptance and love for fellow jews no matter what their affiliation may be. He actually condemmed all of the violence many times!!!!!

Oh how right you are!

59

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:14 AM dovid's friend Says:

Reply to #2  
PMO Says:

No argument here. I don't wish anything bad on them, but at the same time they would never get any money from me, nor any kind of warm welcome in my community. They (whether intentionally or unintentionally) encourage violence, sinas chinam, and foster a hatred of all frum yidden.

Until they decide to clean up their own house, they will not be welcome in mine. At the same time, I wish them well and I hope they find the kind of chessed and ahavas yisroel that is missing from their lives.

The hatred being expressed is frightening and dangerous.

Anybody who knows anything knows that the Toldos Avraham Yitzchok strongly and openly urges people to NOT participate in hafganos. Rav Meir Bransdorfer never attended a hafgono -- this is what i was told by one of his younger sons! The Toldos Avraham Yitzchok Rebbe and his sons didn't even participate in the "Kabbalos Shabbos" davenings in the street because it is not their way. Throughout all of the shabbos parking lot hafgonos, the Rebbe and his chasidim were in the Toldos Avraham Yitzchok bes medrash having shalosh suedos -- WHICH IS WHERE ALL THE YIDDEN SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

The Rebbe is very welcoming and accepting of all. His hoshkofo is one of chesed and achdus. His sons are the same. I challenge anyone to discover for themselves. Go speak to the Rebbe about it -- his gabbai speaks English and will translate.

Before this newspaper publishes an article or people post their opinions, they should truly have their facts in order. The hatred that is being espoused will damage hundreds of cheder boys who are trying to learn mishnayos and gemara.

60

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:12 AM starwolf Says:

Reply to #45  
Anonymous Says:

I'm from the 5 towns, nice try Jewish Star, to besmirch a kehillah in EY, the inheritors of the mantle of the Yishuv Hayoshon, and smugly believe that we are better because there are woman in our community who have lower standards than that community and would feel unwelcome is beyond ludicrous. It is a sin of the highest magnitude, lishnah bishah on a Kehillah built on Torah and Avodah. The people of this neighborhood have a privilege to be partners with them in their endeavors, and you would deny it because of your warped, small minded outlook. I am not mekaneh you.

Taht kehillah besmirches itself; it needs no help from a newspaper.

61

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:12 AM Anonymous Says:

I should really just go on and not comment on this infuriating article but i feel i just have to say the truth. Toldos Avraham Yitzchok chasidim did NOT go out and protest the rebbi was VERY against it. The rebbi did not go to the mocha on shabbos that many Gedolim did attend stating that "They are more powerfull and we cannot fight them; our only strength is thru keeping shabbos stronger than ever" So to whoever wrote this article please check out the facts beforehand especially when regarding such a sensitive issue....

62

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Wonderful, wonderful article. At last there is a voice willing to speak emes and yashrus and not just ignore the tremendous examples of chillul hashem that are being perpetrated in our time...now how about an article on how our organizations should deal with child molesters and fraudsters in our midst?

63

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:28 AM FVNMS Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

So ahavas yisroel means loving secularists and mechalelei shabos, and only apikorsim? and observant yidden is a "mitzva" to hate?
Shame on the Jewish star for preaching sinas yisroel!

I have a feeling that "secularists and mechalelei shabos, and apikorsim" is how you'd describe a large segment of oisgehaltene yidden because they don't look/act/think like you.

64

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:27 AM lishma Says:

Reply to #28  
neutral Says:

thanks vin for posting this article, I m pledging a huge donation for them, thanks to that sinas chinam article.

thanks vin i am witholding my huge donation from them, thanks for the great article

65

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:17 AM Everyone Says:

SHAME SHAME "FOOLISH STAR"!!!

66

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
esther Says:

it needs to be both. no disrespect but tzneeus IS very important to Hashem.

" tzneeus IS very important to Hashem"

Yes but womens' rights and freedom from fear that they will be attacked because some chareidi doesn't approve of their dress is much more important. Any marginal question regarding the length of a sleeve or hemline fades in comparison with the much greater chilul hashem of verbally or physically attacking a woman.

67

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:48 AM professional Says:

to post #'s 31 & 45: very well written! every word you wrote is so true!
it's a real privilege to be able to give money to the TAY rebbe!! He is a real tzaddik & is accepting of every yid (no matter what he looks like!) who walks thru his door!! I'm saying it from first hand experience! He is a special special person!! I dont look like him or his followers at all, & my expriences with him were mind boggling! I had stories with him that you were openly looking at "ruach hakodesh" ! Try him out yourself this weekend & I have no doubt that your attitude will change! Be very open with him & confront him with anything & everything that's on your mind. You'll be amazed at his true, warm & loving personality!!

68

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
dovid Says:

Why support peoople who put forth such a negative stereotype of Judaism? Are we supporting Chilul Hashem when we give them dollars. Is it beneficial to the image and survival of yiddiahkeit to have images in the press of women beaten by 'religious' vigilantes, by unkempt men screaming "nazi" at policemen (as if the Nazis wrongdoing was allowing parking garages to remain open on Shabbos). Are we supporting Israel by giving these institutions dollars, or are we offering a helping hand to those that shameus and make us look archaic, mean spirited foolish? Isn't our money better spent supporting our hard working schools whose values we share, or helping our struggeling neighbor facing foreclosure? Terrible things have

The toldos chasidus are the backbones of klal yisroel ( one of them) yidishkeit measures from the most charedie and down , there's a saying if someone trims his beard in isreal a person in paris is shmading . The people who protest in isreal are not violent ,its the police who have a zealos hate againt charedim turn on the fire , then the protest get ugly . And you're right don't give your money give some to your yeshiva of choice(who are peace loving) and then buy some tickets to the world series , buy some kosher hot dogs and in in 3 generations you'll have your grandchildren coming to you eating matzoh balls on yom kippur.

69

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:43 AM Anonymous Says:

P.S. Adding to my post about having once become poor when living in the 5 towns area, to be fair I will add that this neighborhood was not in the 5 towns, but right next to it. Veeeeeery close to it. But considered the same area.

70

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:39 AM Anonymous Says:

This rule of not giving tzedoka is an old one, going back thousands of years, it was founded in SEDOM.
So the Jewish Star is following them properly.

71

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:39 AM Anonymous Says:

Whoever wrote this article is writing under the assumption that the five towns holds the most precious asset in the world: money. This is not true. The Torah is our most precious asset. And the Toldos Aron Rebbe is steeped in Torah.

Because many in the 5 towns have money, they feel they live above the world. The author clearly sees the Toldos Aron Rebbe as just another Jew in yerushalmi garb, as he wrote: "You want a photo op with someone in Yerushalmi garb? Great. Go to Israel."

As for the poor in the 5 towns area that the author mentions, I really feel for them for I once was one of them when we had a period of unemployment. We had three young children, one of them critically ill. We received a lot of advice and plenty of judgment, but financial help with our expenses? Well, we appreciated the one person who gave us $1,000 before Rosh Hashana, anonymously. Everyone else just assumed that since everyone in the area has money, "someone" must be helping us - and they made us know it and feel it every time they spoke to us. We got back on our feet - and then MOVED.

So, 5 towns: whether it's to the Toldos Aron Rebbe, or the poor of your community, just give tzedakah!

72

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:39 AM chassidishe baal tzedaka when I can Says:

I didn't read all the comments, but I have to say (& I'm sure some bigots & closed-minded fanatics will yell) I agree with the sentiments of the article. It is very true, charity DOES begin at home & in the 5 Towns, they have been hit very hard by the recession. I was there last week, I went into my favorite cafe & the owner told me business is very bad, people out there are hurting. The higher you are, the harder you fall???

So to come over to drain even more precious resources for overseas Yeshivas & institutions seems ridiculous. Having said that, people can refuse to give or choose to give of their own free will. But maybe the local Rabbonim should "suggest" that Tzedaka should stay in the neighborhood.

73

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:36 AM civilchusid Says:

they are holy tzadikim no doubt about it, they just have taken a rather extreme and fanatical approach to yiddishkeit. i wouldn't give them any money simply because i don't agree with their beliefs and their value system... i as a "real chusid" am looking to encourage and promote ahavas chinom the exact opposite of what they are doing.. breeding violence casuing more and more hate amongst us.

74

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:54 AM Great Says:

Reply to #36  
Monsey Misnaged Says:

Tzedakah money is mamon shel hekdesh which makes each of us an apitropos of hekdesh with regard to the money we give. It is assur to give holy money to these two non-Jews.

Spoken like a true goy.

75

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:57 AM Anonymous Says:

Amazing the ignorence of this writer and blatent am haretz first he asks is there kosher our kosher is there standard our standard you are right it's not fornetly for us it's better I'm not ashamed to say unfornetly I'm not on that madreigah and that's the reason we admier and respect them that they can live that way than this tipesh asks would they extend the same curtesy of hacnoses orchim my friend it's obvies you have never spent real time in real yerushalayim couse there is no comunety in the world that stands close to this 2 in anyway in this regard than he shows vos far an am harutz he is when he dosent know the basic halcha that aniyeh ertez yisroal are considerd aniyeh ircha and they come first couse they are also aniyeh eretz yisrale further more this peppol stand up for there belive I might not agree but what in the world have you ever stood up for what in the world are your belives and if you had a tzarah in life who is the first rebbe you would run to and stand in line for a blessing your just a hipocrite you have no standerds and why can't a rebbe rule his strong hold thr way he sees fit he hasent told you how to dreas in america and did he or his followers couse a chilul hashem did u miss the notice where they threw the guy in charge of it out oh we may not protest couse you think it's a chilul hashem have you ever learnd the hilchos of chlul hashem I doubght it couse I have and if we go there your way of life is s far greter chilul hashem you are mechalel hashem with your voulger speech with your lusting eyes and your unbecoming dread code day in day out so let's not go there it's a far greter chilul to be mechalel in front of a goy and frumeh yid and in front of hashem himself than in front of a mechalel shabosd bfarhesyah acourding to the chazon is there is no chilul hashem at all in front of a chilony in eretz yisroel so untill you don't learn a thing or 2 you should shut up I'm sick and tiers of your blatent narishkiet and yes there are others to suppert here and abroad by my gut feeiling is you have an excuse for not suporting this non working paresites as you would call them eitherf didn't you just say last week somthing about they should work they don't deserve my money and if it wasent last week it was the Time before that but you know what I'm saying so let's cut the crab be honest and say it I hate frum Jews couse I'm gelless and the truth hurts I feel guilty so I'll smear them shame on you

76

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:52 AM yh Says:

when RAV AMROM BLAU (leader of the old neturai karta)was nifter all the police in jerusalem came to his funeral. thay said that the reason they came was because they understood that rav amrom blau was sincere. they said as much as they hit him he never lifted a finger back to them. when the old theater in geula was being mechalil shabbos to b open the second after shabbos he used to stick his head in the window and not move. the police used to beat him but he wouldnt bugdge. he once saw a yerushalmi that was about to hit a police officer at a rally. he screamed at him and spoke very harshly about his actions. he said u r missing the whole point.

the nature of todays protests are completely against halacha and the leaders of the generation are required to put an end to it. Rambam states that the chilul hashem by jews is much greater than nonjews and the biggest chilul hashem here is that as a frum growing jew i am ashamed sometimes to be seen with a yarmulka bc of actions like these.

ppl need cheap spiritualization these days and many of the rebbes provide that. its more of a gasmius pursuit then a spiritual pursuit. u gotta have the 3 r's of gasmius, rolex, range rover, rebbe

77

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:08 PM Anonymous Says:

as if these guys were going to give a red cent for these rebbes

78

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:01 PM knowitall Says:

The entire lifestyle and world view in Lawrence is absolutely antithetical to what they preach - dissociation from secularism and gentile mores, humility, simpe living standards, anti-Israel. Why go to a place that is blatantly opposed to their hashkofos?

79

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:

i too will double my donation bec. of this article.

80

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:

This rule of not giving tzedoka is an old one, going back thousands of years, it was founded in SEDOM.
So the Jewish Star is following them properly.

81

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:04 AM Ish emmes Says:

The facts are Satmar is building all over eretz yisroel and more than anyone today. Most young Satmars today, while not agreeing with the Zionist govt- are not neturei Karta and love the people of eretz yisroel. They have a right to believe or not believe , We unfortunately think all Satmar are Neturei Karta- NOT TRUE AND NEVER WAS TRUE! Israel is the only country in the world where real estate has gone UP ( YES! UP!) 12% a year. The problem is that like with Madooff (non-religous jews mostly) and in the US myself included -- the Charedi community has been swindled by it's own in billions of shekels. Their Gemachsd like here have been pilfered and Americas donors are gone. Start cleaning the streets and shuls, Go to schools - the goodtimes easy rides here and US is OVER!!!!!!!!!!! and computers will also get all cheats !! u ain't going to outsmart the medina anymore! And your acquiesence to the violent riots will now cause a backlash in AMerica and the seculAR iSRAELIS. u BURIED YOURSELVES DEEPER. tHAT IS WHAT THESE RABBIS DO NOT UNDERSTAND. hELP YOUR BROTHERS HERE FIRST THEN OTHER COUNTIRES !

82

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:58 AM Am I Dreaming?? Says:

Am I reading right? a boycott of yiden against yiden?
Reminds me of Nazi Germany 1939, shame on jews who try to act like that, ugly!

83

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:57 AM formally Says:

Just because some criticize some yiddin does not them or me are Jew haters. I hate certain Jews since they do or represent bad things.

Let see in writing's were this robonum told there chasideim to stop the violence?

84

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Thanks Star for spreading sinas chinam and hate between jews, this is surely a nice "deed" to get closer to moshiach..

85

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

Im not Neturei Karta, BUT RABOISAI, come on! These people live in Israel and YES hold up the Torah, without them there would be buses and a complete sham of our EYisroel, they have a tafkid as do we

"Im not Neturei Karta, BUT RABOISAI, come on"

Until these rabbonim take action to stop their followers from attacking women on the basis of tzinus, walking on the wrong side of the street, not moving to the back of the bus and other perceived meshugaas, they are as guilty as the lunatics committing these crimes. Their silence is deafening and the complicity of those from the 5 Towns who would finance them is equally disgraceful.

86

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:55 AM Yossi Says:

B"H those 2 erliche moysdes do NOT need any $$$ from people who dont want to support them..They always were financed by erliche yidden from the whole world who have a connection to Torah,yires Shemayim,and Chasidus....The Divrei Yoel z"tl used to say.....Vy and bitter will be the day az mier velen gefeflen far the gass....b"h those 2 chasidis are NOT the liking of any anti chasidis,torah,yires shemyim...

87

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:55 AM chusid Says:

I say let them collect their money in Israel and leave us alone. We need to take care of our own people first.

88

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
Moshe Says:

Yes ahavas yisroel mean loving even secularists and mechalilei shabbos - they are yiddin too and you can be mekarev them

I can be ok with that, but how does it sound that ahavas yisroel means HATING frum jews??? if one love apikorsim and hates frums then he's all rotten.

89

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:51 AM ish emes Says:

Reply to #2  
PMO Says:

No argument here. I don't wish anything bad on them, but at the same time they would never get any money from me, nor any kind of warm welcome in my community. They (whether intentionally or unintentionally) encourage violence, sinas chinam, and foster a hatred of all frum yidden.

Until they decide to clean up their own house, they will not be welcome in mine. At the same time, I wish them well and I hope they find the kind of chessed and ahavas yisroel that is missing from their lives.

First of all , the rebbes did come out against the violence. Also in many chassidus there are rogues just as there are many high risk kids in Flatbush and Lawwrence. Islam lhavdil claims "these are extremists" while the majority agree. In their turf they insist on tzinius and they have that right .
Regarding domestic needs--The last 60 years has seen the Israeli Haredi community rely on donations from abroad to fund their institutional structure building and kolell parnassa for many. We here believed in building eretz Yisroel as modern people gave billions to Israel Bonds among more modern factions of yiddishkeit,
That must now end. We here have suffered a complete breakdown of Americas financial structure for years ahead. The frum community and it's manhigim were living in LALA land building expensive edifices and not giving their children at least a fighting chance for Parnassa by no english studies. Girls would only go out with "LEARNING BOYS" egostistically expecting their in-laws to furnish high living stds. It is now time we got together in our shuls to help our members and the good all our families need, The schnorrers of Israel (most fakers) should stay home.

90

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #78  
knowitall Says:

The entire lifestyle and world view in Lawrence is absolutely antithetical to what they preach - dissociation from secularism and gentile mores, humility, simpe living standards, anti-Israel. Why go to a place that is blatantly opposed to their hashkofos?

For gelt!

91

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

Didn't expect anything better from the hateful Jewish star, they can't hide their unlimited hate to Hasidim and frum yidden.

yeah the truth hurts

92

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:30 PM Inwood'er Says:

Please don't think that all Five towners are as biased and racist as this Star editorial, most 5T'ers are respectful of other yiden, especially gedolim, even if their dress code is different or their customs are more frum than us.
The radical Jewish Star like a few radical local extremists are a minority in the area, Boruch Hashem a lot of tzedaka is being distributed from the 5T's to the whole world, especially Eretz Yisroel, those choshuva Rebbe's will make a nice fortune here in the 5 Towns I'm yirtze hashem, we will not bow to the few neo extremists, and won't let them destroy our community and reputation.

93

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
AuthenticSatmar Says:

Maybe if they greeted them warmly and respectfully, they will see that modernism is not bad, and will learn to change. Holding back funds may serve as an exercise in "teaching them a lesson" it won't get them to change.

The same warmly and respectfully that they treat people that are not like them?!

94

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
AuthenticSatmar Says:

Maybe if they greeted them warmly and respectfully, they will see that modernism is not bad, and will learn to change. Holding back funds may serve as an exercise in "teaching them a lesson" it won't get them to change.

We should treat them warmly and they will learn to change?!?!?! are you kidding?!?!

They insist on "teaching people lessons" - as you put it - and we should fund them?!?!

95

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:48 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
AuthenticSatmar Says:

Maybe if they greeted them warmly and respectfully, they will see that modernism is not bad, and will learn to change. Holding back funds may serve as an exercise in "teaching them a lesson" it won't get them to change.

That would be nice but I'm afraid you and I both know it's a fantasy. These Rebbes only have scorn for everyone that is not of their community. They're here for money, plain and simple, and the fact that they've come themselves instead of sending people merely indicates the need for money is greater than usual and that they're willing to go to anyone to get some. But respect for a MO community? No, I can't see that at all.

96

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:44 AM Simcha Says:

The people welcoming this Rebbe have no self respect. Why would you welcome a rabid anti Zionist into a community and a shul that was built based on principals of religious Zionism? Why give money to institutions that abhor your way of life and those of your neighbors? Could you not find a more moderate Rebbe to bring in to make yourselves feel good and important or only the most extreme will suffice for you people? What kind of a message does it send to your children that these are the types of people you honor, bring into town and give your money to. HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

97

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:41 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
Moshe Says:

Yes ahavas yisroel mean loving even secularists and mechalilei shabbos - they are yiddin too and you can be mekarev them

I can be ok with that, but how does it sound that ahavas yisroel means HATING frum jews??? if one love apikorsim and hates frums then he's all rotten.

98

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:40 AM Anonymous Says:

Like them or not, everyone should be giving in their own community before supporting rebbes from eretz yisroel. In the 5 towns community, there are families who have lost all of their means of support in the economic downturn, there are children whose parents cannot affort to put food on the table, there are children who are being pulled from yeshivas and enrolled in public school because parents can't affort tuition. Where is the outcry for the needy of our community? Why are there tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars being given to every single rebbe who can find someone to host them in the community? Where are our priorities?

99

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:33 AM dov Says:

we shouldnt speak so badly of any gadol, even an anti-zionist one

100

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:33 AM Lawrence Resident Says:

This article is full of lies. I take my sons to the Toldos Ahron Tish whenever I'm in Yerusholayim. I'm always treated with respect even though I don't wear a black hat.

101

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:47 PM clear thinker Says:

Reply to #50  
5 Town Jew Says:

I was at one of the demonstrations that was photographed, videotaped and widely disseminated on the internet and other media. Not surprisingly the no one sees the retzicha and violence, the mean-spirited teasing, water throwing, hat smashing perpetrated by the police. They just show reaction of people that lose it after being pushed to the limit. It is terrible to call an Israeli policeman a Nazi, it is worse for them to act like Nazis. And I live in Lawrence, dont look like a black-hatter and never liked them as much as I do since spending Elul in Yerushalaim.

To call a police officer a nazi is unforgivable. To say they act like nazis is to demean the victims of the shoah. I am not defending the police, I was not there. Since you were in Yerushalayim and claim you saw police misconduct it is fine to object to it. Still you should be careful with your statements. Should the police have acted like nazis you would not be here to talk about it.

102

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:45 PM Yossi Says:

The Five Towners yidden deserve recognition for always hosting tea parties and open house functions plus hosting shabusim for all Chasidishe rebbes and Gedoyle Hador....We applause you for that and we know that you all Five towners are upset when a local self hating news paper writes shuch nasty editorials .....

103

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:44 PM Fed Up Says:

All this midos stuff and love of your neighbor is so goyish. It is all between the person and the RS"O. Who cares what people think of you. And holding from laws created by man. If more people would observe Torah and worry about there relationship with the RS"O we would all be better off.

104

 Nov 04, 2009 at 01:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

So now its criminal and thuggery to stick up for Shabbos and libels!!!!!

Yes, when you are being Michalel Shabbos!

105

 Nov 04, 2009 at 01:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
berel Says:

and boycott the gemorrah, rambam, S'U (hilchos yom tov).'.chaiyiv bes din lehamid shotrim bashuken uverchovos cedai shelo yovu lidei pritzus'..and thanks for PMO, formally etc., in not disappointing us ehrliche shomrei torah yidden by showing all over that you are against S'U. and of course the 'jewish' star is a 'great' proponent of 'derch yisroel sava'

it also says that that if one kills wioth hasrah then bais din kills that person? do we go around stoning people? no . when sanhadrin returns then you have a point but untill then we are poweless with out bais din

106

 Nov 04, 2009 at 01:20 PM Inwood'er Says:

Please don't think that all Five towners are as biased and racist as this Star editorial, most 5T'ers are respectful of other yiden, especially gedolim, even if their dress code is different or their customs are more frum than us.
The radical Jewish Star like a few radical local extremists are a minority in the area, Boruch Hashem a lot of tzedaka is being distributed from the 5T's to the whole world, especially Eretz Yisroel, those choshuva Rebbe's will make a nice fortune here in the 5 Towns I'm yirtze hashem, we will not bow to the few neo extremists, and won't let them destroy our community and reputation.

107

 Nov 04, 2009 at 01:27 PM Bluh as in Rosen.Lubavitch Says:

As other posters have already stated the TOLDOS AVROHOM YITZCHOK are not Neturei Karta and are very fine yidden NOT involved in demonstrations.The Rebbe is not a konoi.
Whatever.I'm sure that what will happen now is that this will be the rebbes most successful trip to the 5T's.

108

 Nov 04, 2009 at 01:48 PM DizzyIzzy Says:

Reply to #96  
Simcha Says:

The people welcoming this Rebbe have no self respect. Why would you welcome a rabid anti Zionist into a community and a shul that was built based on principals of religious Zionism? Why give money to institutions that abhor your way of life and those of your neighbors? Could you not find a more moderate Rebbe to bring in to make yourselves feel good and important or only the most extreme will suffice for you people? What kind of a message does it send to your children that these are the types of people you honor, bring into town and give your money to. HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

Rabbi Emanuel Rackman must be spinning in his grave.

109

 Nov 04, 2009 at 01:47 PM who Says:

Reply to #83  
formally Says:

Just because some criticize some yiddin does not them or me are Jew haters. I hate certain Jews since they do or represent bad things.

Let see in writing's were this robonum told there chasideim to stop the violence?

"Let see in writing's were this robonum told there chasideim to stop the violence".
What a stupid request. Lets see in writing that your not an am hoaretz and an apeekoras.

110

 Nov 04, 2009 at 01:34 PM BP chosid Says:

Reply to #92  
Inwood'er Says:

Please don't think that all Five towners are as biased and racist as this Star editorial, most 5T'ers are respectful of other yiden, especially gedolim, even if their dress code is different or their customs are more frum than us.
The radical Jewish Star like a few radical local extremists are a minority in the area, Boruch Hashem a lot of tzedaka is being distributed from the 5T's to the whole world, especially Eretz Yisroel, those choshuva Rebbe's will make a nice fortune here in the 5 Towns I'm yirtze hashem, we will not bow to the few neo extremists, and won't let them destroy our community and reputation.

Very well said. I have been a few times to the Five Towns to raise funds for tzedokah, I was very welcome, and given nice donations (by most ppl), despite the fact of me being an ultra chosid.
One damn idiot just wanted to know what I think about Zionism before he even thought about saying hello.. (maybe it was the same idiot that wrote this Klan article in the Star)..

111

 Nov 04, 2009 at 01:32 PM LS Says:

The Jewish Star does NOT represent or speak on behalf the Jewish Community.
No wonder that they have to give away their paper for FREE at every store.
No one would buy it.

112

 Nov 04, 2009 at 01:50 PM DizzyIzzy Says:

Reply to #100  
Lawrence Resident Says:

This article is full of lies. I take my sons to the Toldos Ahron Tish whenever I'm in Yerusholayim. I'm always treated with respect even though I don't wear a black hat.

I wonder what would happen if you came without your checkbook.

113

 Nov 04, 2009 at 01:07 PM moshe Says:

why dont they just stay in monroe and williamsburg where they belong and feel compfortable, is only our money good and we as people good for nothing as they truly think?

114

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
dovid's friend Says:

The hatred being expressed is frightening and dangerous.

Anybody who knows anything knows that the Toldos Avraham Yitzchok strongly and openly urges people to NOT participate in hafganos. Rav Meir Bransdorfer never attended a hafgono -- this is what i was told by one of his younger sons! The Toldos Avraham Yitzchok Rebbe and his sons didn't even participate in the "Kabbalos Shabbos" davenings in the street because it is not their way. Throughout all of the shabbos parking lot hafgonos, the Rebbe and his chasidim were in the Toldos Avraham Yitzchok bes medrash having shalosh suedos -- WHICH IS WHERE ALL THE YIDDEN SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

The Rebbe is very welcoming and accepting of all. His hoshkofo is one of chesed and achdus. His sons are the same. I challenge anyone to discover for themselves. Go speak to the Rebbe about it -- his gabbai speaks English and will translate.

Before this newspaper publishes an article or people post their opinions, they should truly have their facts in order. The hatred that is being espoused will damage hundreds of cheder boys who are trying to learn mishnayos and gemara.

Your more than right!

115

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:55 PM jancsi Says:

Reply to #96  
Simcha Says:

The people welcoming this Rebbe have no self respect. Why would you welcome a rabid anti Zionist into a community and a shul that was built based on principals of religious Zionism? Why give money to institutions that abhor your way of life and those of your neighbors? Could you not find a more moderate Rebbe to bring in to make yourselves feel good and important or only the most extreme will suffice for you people? What kind of a message does it send to your children that these are the types of people you honor, bring into town and give your money to. HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

wow nicely written its the whole truth theese 5 towners lost their self respect they are self contradictory

116

 Nov 04, 2009 at 12:53 PM Anonymous Says:

I really dont envy the author and his share in the world to come for speaking like this in regard to two Gedolim Vadmorim...but i sure am envious of those that give to these organizations that trully mean Torah and only Torah!

117

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:25 PM shlomo zalman Says:

I say give them lots of money on condition they stay in America. They are toxic to Israel, let them stay there and not come back.

118

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #110  
BP chosid Says:

Very well said. I have been a few times to the Five Towns to raise funds for tzedokah, I was very welcome, and given nice donations (by most ppl), despite the fact of me being an ultra chosid.
One damn idiot just wanted to know what I think about Zionism before he even thought about saying hello.. (maybe it was the same idiot that wrote this Klan article in the Star)..

"One damn idiot"-- nice language from a BP chosid. Class.

119

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:38 PM formally Says:

Reply to #109  
who Says:

"Let see in writing's were this robonum told there chasideim to stop the violence".
What a stupid request. Lets see in writing that your not an am hoaretz and an apeekoras.

why is that robunum write requests about music, dress, stockings and what not.

so why not about this, please explain why the other stuff they can write about, but not to condemn the violence.

answer they agree with it

120

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Some people have guilty fillings how they observe yiddishkeit, like there dress codes and so forth, the easiest way of suppressing their guilty feelings is by mocking other Yidden that are holding on to our values (these of the past 2000 year) and are not trying to be more like the goi! even thought that means for them a lot of time to get into unconformable situations to say the least! so by saying look they have there own problems and they are doing a chilul hashem and so forth, they surpress their own wrong doings!

And the definition of Chilul HaShem is that the goi should see that those who observe Hashems Tora are honest and good people, but to say that I wont do what hashem ask to do, and to try to please the Goi instead to please hashem this is exactly the definition of CHILUL HASHEM.

121

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:32 PM joe Says:

the hasdim listen to the rebbe
they ask the rebbe medical questions
they ask the rebbe who to vote for
they ask the rebbe who to marry
if these rebbes were so great they would tell their flock not to riot
i am certain the group would listen to their leader
the leader is responsible for the actions of his flock of fools

122

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:27 PM formally Says:

Reply to #70  
Anonymous Says:

This rule of not giving tzedoka is an old one, going back thousands of years, it was founded in SEDOM.
So the Jewish Star is following them properly.

why do you lie to make a point.

They never said do not give tzedoka, they said that these two are not a good cause.

123

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:19 PM Anonymous Says:

reply to #66 which book did you get that out of, the new testament?

124

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:06 PM joe from woodmere Says:

Reply to #1  
FBF Says:

I was thinking the same thing when I heard these two "Rabbonim" were coming to the USA. If we want to change things around we need to stop giving money to these kinds of "organzations".

if they act like donkeys
treat them like donkeys
we should not give money to those who are an embarassment

125

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
Moshe Says:

Yes ahavas yisroel mean loving even secularists and mechalilei shabbos - they are yiddin too and you can be mekarev them

Ahavas Yisroel starts with not labeling our fellow Jews. Calling them secularists and mechallel Shabbos is outrageous and outright lashon horah.

126

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:49 PM formally Says:

Reply to #70  
Anonymous Says:

This rule of not giving tzedoka is an old one, going back thousands of years, it was founded in SEDOM.
So the Jewish Star is following them properly.

I went to satmer, Bobov belz, chabad Ger to collect money for a reform shuls soup kitchen. I got zero.

This rule of not giving tzedoka is an old one, going back thousands of years, it was founded in SEDOM.
So the satmer, Bobov belz, chabad Ger is following them properly.

Just because someone does not want to give to you, does not mean they do not give charity,

127

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:45 PM formally Says:

Funny all the people who are shocked or complain about the Jewish star article how hatefull it is. Have no problem with article just as hateful and maybe more coming from some of the frum about the less frum, or conservatives etc.

You can spread hate but do not know how to handle when others think of you porrly

Grow up
to 109
"Let see in writing's were this robonum told there chasideim to stop the violence".
What a stupid request. Lets see in writing that your not an am hoaretz and an apeekoras.

I can tell you my yeshiva friends and rosh yeshiva will tell I am not a am hoaretz.
apeekoras of course I am, since anybody who does not agree with is an apeekoras therefore I am

128

 Nov 04, 2009 at 02:54 PM Yerachmiel Lopin Says:

I think the arguments about local poor vs. the poor of Israel are not the issue. This is not a question of disbursing money out a congregational kuppah. We are talking about individual donation decisions. Even those who favor local giving, give something to the poor and the scholars in Israel. This is a debate about giving to the right wing of the R’ Aryele’s descendents, who are the right wing of the eidah chareidis, who are to the right of the Agudah, which is to the right of most of the members in Shaarey Tefila. Subtle distinctions between the two Toldos rebbes don’t change the fact that they are way, way to the right of these contributors.

Centrist Orthodox Jews are not imagining that they are treated with contempt and hostility by much of the chareidi world. Some would argue they should accept that because the chareidim are more fully carring forward Yiddishkeit. Others argue that there are various ways of being good yidn, and centrist orthodoxy deserves respect. Those who wish to raise their children in their hashkafah feel that legtiimazing those who abuse them will lead their children to go off the derech if they cannot be as frum as some of these chareidim. Others are gravely concerned to stop the chillul hashem and violence that emanates from Meiah Shearim.

I feel that as a matter of integrity, groups should not take money from those they do not respect. If they feel incapable saying to contributors you are good Jews, not just money sources, they owe it to themselves to find other ways of supporting themselves.

I have written about this at more length in frumfollies. In my posting I also discuss the question of whether rebbes can control their hassidim, the Hadassah business, and the question of hakkaras hatov.

Yerachmiel Lopin, blogger

129

 Nov 04, 2009 at 03:44 PM One sided memory Says:

When a misguided religious zionist murdered Yitzchak Rabin, very few people slandered religious zionist rabbis with vindictive attacks. (Though the late Gaon and Tzadik Rav Aron Soloveichik did question whether the rabbinate should feel responsible.) When another misguided religious zionist massacred Moslem worshippers on Purim some years ago, nobody in the Jewish Star complained about their religious zionist rabbinate. When Teitel was arrested this week for shooting Arabs on a whim, no-one says anything about the rabbis of the settlements. And yet when some misguided fellows in striped kaftanim pelt a few rocks and burn a few garbage cans it is cause for prohibiting them to set foot on the hallowed turf of the Five Towns?!?!
Hello! This is a democratic country, those who don't like these rebbes will skip the tisch and derive their Shabbos inspiration from the Jewish Star.

130

 Nov 04, 2009 at 03:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #126  
formally Says:

I went to satmer, Bobov belz, chabad Ger to collect money for a reform shuls soup kitchen. I got zero.

This rule of not giving tzedoka is an old one, going back thousands of years, it was founded in SEDOM.
So the satmer, Bobov belz, chabad Ger is following them properly.

Just because someone does not want to give to you, does not mean they do not give charity,

you are simply lying! I daven in Satmar, we have people of all types and sorts coming to collect tzedukah every day, all go out with substantial nice donations in the hand, on some people coming for money you have to look very hard to spot the small kipah on the head, but they al get charity by the satmars, no matter if they are MO, zionist or misnachel.

131

 Nov 04, 2009 at 03:37 PM GG Jew Says:

This really is a sick and shameful article, not just because of the actual content but also because the writer has clearly done absolutely no research into what he is writing about. I am no-one to defend these two great tzadikkim, but suffice it to bring up one point that the writer makes, where he says that the people of Lawrence would not get such kovod if they went to Meah Shearim, - Anyone who has been to a tish or simchas beis hashoeva etc in either TA or TAY (TAY especially) will know that 'outsiders' are warmly welcomed and made to feel completely comfortable even though many of them are obviously not from the same background and have completely different hashkofos to the chassidim.

132

 Nov 04, 2009 at 03:21 PM Rangers Goalie Says:

Reply to #127  
formally Says:

Funny all the people who are shocked or complain about the Jewish star article how hatefull it is. Have no problem with article just as hateful and maybe more coming from some of the frum about the less frum, or conservatives etc.

You can spread hate but do not know how to handle when others think of you porrly

Grow up
to 109
"Let see in writing's were this robonum told there chasideim to stop the violence".
What a stupid request. Lets see in writing that your not an am hoaretz and an apeekoras.

I can tell you my yeshiva friends and rosh yeshiva will tell I am not a am hoaretz.
apeekoras of course I am, since anybody who does not agree with is an apeekoras therefore I am

You've exposed yourself as an apostate time and time here on these boards. BTW who and how is one supposed to get in writing, something that may not be in writing?
Question for you: do you like Yeshivash and Chasidise Jews as a whole?? Hm?

133

 Nov 04, 2009 at 03:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #45  
Anonymous Says:

I'm from the 5 towns, nice try Jewish Star, to besmirch a kehillah in EY, the inheritors of the mantle of the Yishuv Hayoshon, and smugly believe that we are better because there are woman in our community who have lower standards than that community and would feel unwelcome is beyond ludicrous. It is a sin of the highest magnitude, lishnah bishah on a Kehillah built on Torah and Avodah. The people of this neighborhood have a privilege to be partners with them in their endeavors, and you would deny it because of your warped, small minded outlook. I am not mekaneh you.

There is a big difference between "feeling unwelcome" and being physically attacked. Just a thought.

134

 Nov 04, 2009 at 03:12 PM PulpitRabbi Says:

Reply to #11  
berel Says:

and boycott the gemorrah, rambam, S'U (hilchos yom tov).'.chaiyiv bes din lehamid shotrim bashuken uverchovos cedai shelo yovu lidei pritzus'..and thanks for PMO, formally etc., in not disappointing us ehrliche shomrei torah yidden by showing all over that you are against S'U. and of course the 'jewish' star is a 'great' proponent of 'derch yisroel sava'

What teh Rambam and gemoro talks about is not thuggery and mafia tactics, but an open, clear and fair system. What teh sources are saying is that we should enforce a level of public morality, but it doesn't talk about vigilantes (no, those thugs do not come to the toe nail clippings of our great Amoiro'im, so you can't compare their respective actions). When everything is transparent, and there are feedback mechanism to see mah de'ama devar, what teh people do, what the support, what they stand behind, then, it is possible and praiseworthy to maintain a level of public morality. However, such cannot, should not happen by vigilantes, nor by batei din that refuse to see whether their standards are supported by the people.

If you doubt my emphasis on the need of popular support (which is NOT based on Chareidim only), then look at the end of massekhes Soite, where IIRC Rav Huna enforced a prohibition against singing in cafes, and the catering economy collapsed. Rav Chisde then became the dayan, and looked away, and the economy reestablished itself.

In the above gemara you'll also see that the Amoiro'im had to deal with mixed choirs, and they had to prioritize, instead of banning all.

135

 Nov 04, 2009 at 04:50 PM formally Says:

Reply to #132  
Rangers Goalie Says:

You've exposed yourself as an apostate time and time here on these boards. BTW who and how is one supposed to get in writing, something that may not be in writing?
Question for you: do you like Yeshivash and Chasidise Jews as a whole?? Hm?

why don't they put it writing,'
rebbeis can put in writing
music ban
concert ban
stocking ban
dress ban
and many more

but somehow cannot bring themselves to put in writing a non violence ban explain please answer the question why the above they can write and the non violence they don't

I have already admitted being called an apostate by people like you, does not bother me at all. Since if one does not have a Yiddish world view like you is no good

136

 Nov 04, 2009 at 04:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #128  
Yerachmiel Lopin Says:

I think the arguments about local poor vs. the poor of Israel are not the issue. This is not a question of disbursing money out a congregational kuppah. We are talking about individual donation decisions. Even those who favor local giving, give something to the poor and the scholars in Israel. This is a debate about giving to the right wing of the R’ Aryele’s descendents, who are the right wing of the eidah chareidis, who are to the right of the Agudah, which is to the right of most of the members in Shaarey Tefila. Subtle distinctions between the two Toldos rebbes don’t change the fact that they are way, way to the right of these contributors.

Centrist Orthodox Jews are not imagining that they are treated with contempt and hostility by much of the chareidi world. Some would argue they should accept that because the chareidim are more fully carring forward Yiddishkeit. Others argue that there are various ways of being good yidn, and centrist orthodoxy deserves respect. Those who wish to raise their children in their hashkafah feel that legtiimazing those who abuse them will lead their children to go off the derech if they cannot be as frum as some of these chareidim. Others are gravely concerned to stop the chillul hashem and violence that emanates from Meiah Shearim.

I feel that as a matter of integrity, groups should not take money from those they do not respect. If they feel incapable saying to contributors you are good Jews, not just money sources, they owe it to themselves to find other ways of supporting themselves.

I have written about this at more length in frumfollies. In my posting I also discuss the question of whether rebbes can control their hassidim, the Hadassah business, and the question of hakkaras hatov.

Yerachmiel Lopin, blogger

I have never heard the term centrist orthodoxy before. Can you explain what this means.

137

 Nov 04, 2009 at 04:57 PM esther Says:

Reply to #66  
Anonymous Says:

" tzneeus IS very important to Hashem"

Yes but womens' rights and freedom from fear that they will be attacked because some chareidi doesn't approve of their dress is much more important. Any marginal question regarding the length of a sleeve or hemline fades in comparison with the much greater chilul hashem of verbally or physically attacking a woman.

of course violence and hate are CV not the way but don't go to the opposite extreme either by saying shailos in tzneeus are marginal.these meshugoyim who beat up women should be lockes up for a long time but don't use other's chesronois to somehow rationalize that only parts of the torah are valid.


138

 Nov 04, 2009 at 05:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Simple hilchos tzedakah are to give to the poor of your own community first, followed by other mosdos within your community. Why bash the Jewish Star for saying that? All the article says is to keep your limited dollars to support the local needy.

I have not read for a boycott anywhere.

Obviously there is a difference in ideology. Its OK not to support something you dont believe in. No one is saying to hate them. Try going to Bet Shemesh and collecting for the local Young Israel. Good luck with that. I am not saying to exact revenge. I am saying it is proper to give to what you believe in.

139

 Nov 04, 2009 at 05:07 PM chusid Says:

Reply to #64  
lishma Says:

thanks vin i am witholding my huge donation from them, thanks for the great article

I too will give to aniyeh ircha and not to them.

140

 Nov 04, 2009 at 05:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #138  
Anonymous Says:

Simple hilchos tzedakah are to give to the poor of your own community first, followed by other mosdos within your community. Why bash the Jewish Star for saying that? All the article says is to keep your limited dollars to support the local needy.

I have not read for a boycott anywhere.

Obviously there is a difference in ideology. Its OK not to support something you dont believe in. No one is saying to hate them. Try going to Bet Shemesh and collecting for the local Young Israel. Good luck with that. I am not saying to exact revenge. I am saying it is proper to give to what you believe in.

Well written! Simple and to the point. I agree. The hate seems to be invented by the readers not the writer.

Follow halochah and support local needs first. As much money as there is in the 5 Towns no one has enough to solve all of the local issues and have left over for anywhere else.

141

 Nov 04, 2009 at 06:38 PM Rangers Goalie Says:

Reply to #135  
formally Says:

why don't they put it writing,'
rebbeis can put in writing
music ban
concert ban
stocking ban
dress ban
and many more

but somehow cannot bring themselves to put in writing a non violence ban explain please answer the question why the above they can write and the non violence they don't

I have already admitted being called an apostate by people like you, does not bother me at all. Since if one does not have a Yiddish world view like you is no good

Maybe they did put it in writing? How do you know they didn't? "I have already admitted being called an apostate by people like you" So you admit that you are!! BTW you didn't answer my other question. Do you like Yeshivash and Chasidise Jews as a whole?? Hm?

142

 Nov 04, 2009 at 07:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #64  
lishma Says:

thanks vin i am witholding my huge donation from them, thanks for the great article

against things that are close to their heart how they would react!

143

 Nov 04, 2009 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #64  
lishma Says:

thanks vin i am witholding my huge donation from them, thanks for the great article

lol u withholding your big donation because of the vin article is the biggest joke!
If you had written the article it would have been 10 fold full of hate!
I'm not worried about this article what so ever. I'm totally convinced that this article will totally fire back! with their greatest success in this year's campaign!
Better yet it will be so much purer money!
btw who welcomes jews from all stripes of frum life, nicer then the yirshileimer from the yisshive hayushon?
they have tiny diroes (apartments), and thier hachnusas orchim is remarkable no matter how chasidesh or not, u are!
at their tisshen, tifoles, not to say simchas bais hoshoavah u find jews from all stripes that are warmly welcomed given refreshments etc.
yes they do want to stay holy and keep the torah so when a woman comes in dressed provocatively she will be scorned ,if she try's to go to men designated area's she will be scorned as well! This in no way means that they are hated , it's their unholy ways that are hated! I would like to see the reaction of this eidle civilized people when people come to their shul's etc. and not following the rule's! or if someone will do propaganda in their area agins

144

 Nov 04, 2009 at 07:02 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm afraid everyone is missing the point. U r all entering into dialogue that does not make one drop of sense. First of all Toldos Avrohom Yitzchock is the most welcoming Chassidus of all in our time. there are more black hats and different types of people at their tish then there is TAY actual chassidim. Secondly anyone who has actually gone into the history of TAY will know that the whole reason why they split off was because the Rebbe is more open-minded and more Vizhnitz. Furthemore the Rebbe is known by by anyone who has been in contact with him as the warmest and most accepting to all types. I myself who lives in England and am not Chassidish have seen the Rebbe spend over an hour conversing with a homeless Israeli who only spoke Hebrew. So get your facts right and then comment.

145

 Nov 04, 2009 at 06:33 PM Eli Says:

The Problem is Like this, A Rebbe once said "I am their Rebbe and can give ADVICE, until it comes for me to tell them what to do. Once i tell them what to do they don't listen so i never tell them what to do" This is the problem a REAL chassidus can tell his chasidim what to do. Now a days there is no real chassidus. That's why when all the alter Rebbe's are niftar each son starts his own Chasidus, Becuase even if the Rebbe says which one should be the new Rebbe Noone would listen. So maybe he tells them not to but they don't listen anyways. Be Dan Likaf Zechus! You Never Know!

146

 Nov 04, 2009 at 05:50 PM Anonymous Says:

How ironic that these "adom gadolim" are coming to Five Towns Modern Orthodox communities to pitch for tzedoka when their Talibanesque interpretations of what Jews should be is in direct conflict of what Five Towns Jews are all about. For money anything goes huh? I wonder how long a woman or a bachur from Five Towns communities would last in Toldos Ahoron world. It doesn't get any more Pro-Zionist than Jews in Five Towns.

147

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Here's another thought: If the people in their community are so desperately in need of assistance- pool some money to create jobs for the men! Let's see how eager they are to take it when there's a condition attached: "Go to work and support your own families!"

148

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:18 PM Moshe H Says:

I didn't get to read though all 147 (at this point) posts so sorry if I am repeating what others may have already said.
I feel that having this particular rebbe in the five towns is a serious error in judgement. These groups hate what most of our community holds so dear - the State of Israel. Their affiliation and/or association with NK and their Toldos Aharon cousins is reason enough to not have them aassociate themselves with thems our guests for shabbos.
Giving them this welcome gives them legitimacy and shows untrue support because I beleive that most of the people, even those that will cave and go pay homage - don't associate themselves with these groups.
Forget the argument that nobody is forcing anyone to give money where they don't want to. Of course we don't and hopefully no real money will be raised for them this weekend. But we must take a stance and stand up for what we believe in and protest what we don't.
If there is one thing we can learn from them is speak up for what you beleive in. You don't have to go with the flow - but unlike them, we should do it respectfully and civilly. By not paying homage, we can send a message.

149

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #50  
5 Town Jew Says:

I was at one of the demonstrations that was photographed, videotaped and widely disseminated on the internet and other media. Not surprisingly the no one sees the retzicha and violence, the mean-spirited teasing, water throwing, hat smashing perpetrated by the police. They just show reaction of people that lose it after being pushed to the limit. It is terrible to call an Israeli policeman a Nazi, it is worse for them to act like Nazis. And I live in Lawrence, dont look like a black-hatter and never liked them as much as I do since spending Elul in Yerushalaim.

I too live in Lawrence and I also spent August in Israel and was at one demonstration (walking home from Mincha). The police were fine, although angry that were forced to be mechalel shabbos for these lunatics. It was disgusting to see black coated hoodlums calling policemen and women Nazis, shikses, and spitting at them. To see young kids maybe 14-16, dressed in their shabbos blackest, yelling at police was disgraceful and to see frum chareidim throwing themselves in front of cars was absurd. The Five Towns, especially Lawrence is not Chareidi (everyone goes to work, even if one might wear a black hat on Shabbos) and would never be accepted by these Eida Haredis leaders (unless to accept their money).
They are not welcome in my town, Kol HaKavod to the Jewish Star. They understand what the community is thinking.

150

 Nov 05, 2009 at 12:06 AM Josh Says:

"In some cases they even altered our own self-perception; more than a few frum Jews this summer reported feeling discomfort at being seen as kin to the Orthodox hooligans in the news. That to is a chillul hashem."

Keyword - Feeling Discomfort.

Charity is local and so is chillul hashem! Unfortanaty there's plenty of that in the 5towns and that doesnt invoke the same discomfort for these feel good, sushi eating, latte drinking jews. While the tactics used by those battling for the soul of Yerushaliyim ( whether their TAY chasidim or not) might be misguided at times, their values, lifestyle, and understanding of whats at stake are oceans apart from the feel good jews.

Its an honor and zchus to have the TAY rebbe grace our community this coming Shabbos.




151

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #149  
Anonymous Says:

I too live in Lawrence and I also spent August in Israel and was at one demonstration (walking home from Mincha). The police were fine, although angry that were forced to be mechalel shabbos for these lunatics. It was disgusting to see black coated hoodlums calling policemen and women Nazis, shikses, and spitting at them. To see young kids maybe 14-16, dressed in their shabbos blackest, yelling at police was disgraceful and to see frum chareidim throwing themselves in front of cars was absurd. The Five Towns, especially Lawrence is not Chareidi (everyone goes to work, even if one might wear a black hat on Shabbos) and would never be accepted by these Eida Haredis leaders (unless to accept their money).
They are not welcome in my town, Kol HaKavod to the Jewish Star. They understand what the community is thinking.

Its not your town i too live in Lawrence, I have met the rebbe and when my modern orthodox brother needed help it was the rebbe who helped him you are a am haaretz, sonei yisroel and a disgrace to our wonderful community who gives so much tzedaka, do you want our town to be known as a bunch of misnagdim! do you ever think that one of the reasons h'kbh gave us the money is in order to help these tzaddikim? you dont like them dont come to the tishim but otherwise keep your mouth shut. be a good yid. Mayer Fertig will have a din vicheshbon after 120 for all the lies he writes. The jewish star has to find out that although there is the amendment of freedom of press there still a GOD! and he has halachos and one of them is Loshon Hara!

152

 Nov 05, 2009 at 07:40 AM Anonymous Says:

1) The TAY Rebbe, shlit"a is NOT a kanoi by ANY stretch of the imagination. See the post above re Vizhnitz.

2) The TA Rebbe shlit"a recently said that the only real kanoi was Reb Amram Bloy ZYA who truly felt the pain of chilul Shabbos in Y-m and acted as he did, and that unless you are on his madreiga (which he implied no one is) there is no need for kanoius.

3) In every Chassidus, be it Chabad, Ger, Satmar or any other, there are fellow travelers who identify with the Chassidus in some way but are not really Chassidim of it or of the respective Rebbes of that Chassidus, nor are they members of the kehillos associated with the Chassidus.

Some of the problem cases in Y-m may hang around one or the other of the Toldos tishen or get brochos from the Rebbes (perhaps at the behest of the ShaBaK and police or perhaps in an attempt to straighten out) but they are NOT Chassidim who follow the horaois of the Rebbes in question.

4) It should also be pointed out that the TA/TAY split was done very peacefully and respectfully, with no machloikes between followers of either. That shows who these Rebbeim shlit"a really are and indeed Lawrence should be proud to welcome them

153

 Nov 05, 2009 at 02:37 AM Anonymous Says:

I had built up much respect for these two Rebbes over the past few years, especially after learning that they are very accepting of ba'alei teshuva and geirim, but they really lost a good deal of my respect when they didn't stand up and issue a statement telling their chassidim to stop with the violence. I will not be spending this shabbos in Lawrence.

154

 Nov 05, 2009 at 01:49 AM Yerachmiel Lopin Says:

The sheer venom of the attack tells me that we are on to something. They know that the days of feeding off of the non-chareidim are coming to an end, Of course they will throw out charges of ignorance and lying. But like someone said earlier, if TAY is such a peacable fellow, he will issue a pashkavil forbidding violence, booing, harassing woman, calling police and Hadassah nazis, etc. He may even be the good guy some people say he is. However, any rebbe in those circles who issues such a statement is dead meat. So what diffference does it make if vinnie is a good guy who never hurts a fly unless uncle Dominick orders him to. If that culture is so rotten, if he is a good guy, he is just going to have to bite the bullet and act it.Till then, lets send some money to boost the morale of the folks at Hadassah who treat the folks in Meah Shearim.

155

 Nov 05, 2009 at 08:26 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #151  
Anonymous Says:

Its not your town i too live in Lawrence, I have met the rebbe and when my modern orthodox brother needed help it was the rebbe who helped him you are a am haaretz, sonei yisroel and a disgrace to our wonderful community who gives so much tzedaka, do you want our town to be known as a bunch of misnagdim! do you ever think that one of the reasons h'kbh gave us the money is in order to help these tzaddikim? you dont like them dont come to the tishim but otherwise keep your mouth shut. be a good yid. Mayer Fertig will have a din vicheshbon after 120 for all the lies he writes. The jewish star has to find out that although there is the amendment of freedom of press there still a GOD! and he has halachos and one of them is Loshon Hara!

you want to honor these rabbis, good for you, i challenge you and all your friends to give your local yeshiva as much money as you give these guys - keep your money inside the community

156

 Nov 05, 2009 at 08:21 AM 5towner Says:

VERY WELL WRITTEN article!!!!
all these schnorers shouldn't come to our community to raise money. We need to support our own before giving any money to anyone else, especially if these are the leaders of the thugs who give frum jews a bad name.

to all of you who expressed negative feelings towards this article and its author, get your head out of the sand and do your research.

it's interesting to realize that every organization comes to our community for money and none of our local organizations ever leave the 5 towns

157

 Nov 04, 2009 at 11:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #148  
Moshe H Says:

I didn't get to read though all 147 (at this point) posts so sorry if I am repeating what others may have already said.
I feel that having this particular rebbe in the five towns is a serious error in judgement. These groups hate what most of our community holds so dear - the State of Israel. Their affiliation and/or association with NK and their Toldos Aharon cousins is reason enough to not have them aassociate themselves with thems our guests for shabbos.
Giving them this welcome gives them legitimacy and shows untrue support because I beleive that most of the people, even those that will cave and go pay homage - don't associate themselves with these groups.
Forget the argument that nobody is forcing anyone to give money where they don't want to. Of course we don't and hopefully no real money will be raised for them this weekend. But we must take a stance and stand up for what we believe in and protest what we don't.
If there is one thing we can learn from them is speak up for what you beleive in. You don't have to go with the flow - but unlike them, we should do it respectfully and civilly. By not paying homage, we can send a message.

The rebbe will I"H have the biggest showing yet , yes paying homage .

158

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:55 PM berel Says:

Reply to #134  
PulpitRabbi Says:

What teh Rambam and gemoro talks about is not thuggery and mafia tactics, but an open, clear and fair system. What teh sources are saying is that we should enforce a level of public morality, but it doesn't talk about vigilantes (no, those thugs do not come to the toe nail clippings of our great Amoiro'im, so you can't compare their respective actions). When everything is transparent, and there are feedback mechanism to see mah de'ama devar, what teh people do, what the support, what they stand behind, then, it is possible and praiseworthy to maintain a level of public morality. However, such cannot, should not happen by vigilantes, nor by batei din that refuse to see whether their standards are supported by the people.

If you doubt my emphasis on the need of popular support (which is NOT based on Chareidim only), then look at the end of massekhes Soite, where IIRC Rav Huna enforced a prohibition against singing in cafes, and the catering economy collapsed. Rav Chisde then became the dayan, and looked away, and the economy reestablished itself.

In the above gemara you'll also see that the Amoiro'im had to deal with mixed choirs, and they had to prioritize, instead of banning all.

also, you see his am haratzes, as aniay eretz yisroel are considered anei ircha. i can gaurantee you if it wouldve been a reception for 'israeli bonds' you'd all go out for it with big fervor so dont hack a cheinig 'aniay ircha

159

 Nov 04, 2009 at 10:45 PM berel Says:

Reply to #139  
chusid Says:

I too will give to aniyeh ircha and not to them.

aniey eretz yisroel are anei ircha see poskim eg:chasam soifer and has nothing to do with the medineh

160

 Nov 04, 2009 at 08:20 PM lost in CA Says:

Reply to #98  
Anonymous Says:

Like them or not, everyone should be giving in their own community before supporting rebbes from eretz yisroel. In the 5 towns community, there are families who have lost all of their means of support in the economic downturn, there are children whose parents cannot affort to put food on the table, there are children who are being pulled from yeshivas and enrolled in public school because parents can't affort tuition. Where is the outcry for the needy of our community? Why are there tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars being given to every single rebbe who can find someone to host them in the community? Where are our priorities?

Your well-meaning post reminds me of a story in LA about 30 years ago. As usual, the schools were in major financial trouble, can't pay the teachers, etc. The rabbonim in the city had a meeting to discuss how to deal with this. Someone came up with the idea of the rabbonim writing a public letter that before people give tzedaka to outsiders, they need to make sure the local institutions and poor are taken care of.

A very intelligent rov, Rav Tzvi (Hershel) Halberstam Z"L, stood up and said, "Ich ken eich tzizugen az di baalei baatim velen nisht geben kein gelt in der roisen, ober tzu inz in shtut vet es oich nisht unkemen". To paraphase, if the rabbonim would write such a letter, the baalei baatim won't give to outsiders pointing at this letter, but the money won't reach our local needy either.

161

 Nov 04, 2009 at 08:19 PM esther Says:

Reply to #140  
Anonymous Says:

Well written! Simple and to the point. I agree. The hate seems to be invented by the readers not the writer.

Follow halochah and support local needs first. As much money as there is in the 5 Towns no one has enough to solve all of the local issues and have left over for anywhere else.

however much we're suffering now in the US it still does not begin to compare with the poverty in EY. i'm just saying we should try to give a little more than we think we can.

162

 Nov 04, 2009 at 08:13 PM Anonymous Says:

What an awesomely shameful piece of literature! To describe two such tremendous leaders of Israel in these terms is quite simply a disgusting act! I'm sure that the Rebbes do not support the violence that takes place in their neighborhoods, and the fact that their communities have different halachic standards is no reason to look down at them or chase them out of town. Their destitute Jews are no worse than ours, and their Mosdos do just as great a job in ensuring the continuation of Torah as ours do!

163

 Nov 05, 2009 at 10:03 AM DizzyIzzy Says:

Reply to #162  
Anonymous Says:

What an awesomely shameful piece of literature! To describe two such tremendous leaders of Israel in these terms is quite simply a disgusting act! I'm sure that the Rebbes do not support the violence that takes place in their neighborhoods, and the fact that their communities have different halachic standards is no reason to look down at them or chase them out of town. Their destitute Jews are no worse than ours, and their Mosdos do just as great a job in ensuring the continuation of Torah as ours do!

1) The only thing shameful is how you describe violent protests, physical attacks, and unchecked thuggery as a "different Halachic standard."

2) So if everything is equal, why should a community export support when it should be used first to assist local families?

164

 Nov 05, 2009 at 12:04 PM lishma Says:

Reply to #161  
esther Says:

however much we're suffering now in the US it still does not begin to compare with the poverty in EY. i'm just saying we should try to give a little more than we think we can.

you fail to understand that it is a self induced poverty what that means is they overextend themslefs by having alot of children with the expectation that there is always someone to support their behaviour this is a tottaly irresponsible behaviour and should not be encouraged by giving money all the time the end will be we will all be the worst of

165

 Nov 05, 2009 at 12:44 PM chusid Says:

Reply to #147  
Anonymous Says:

Here's another thought: If the people in their community are so desperately in need of assistance- pool some money to create jobs for the men! Let's see how eager they are to take it when there's a condition attached: "Go to work and support your own families!"

chas vsholom. work. That's only for us. They would never stoop to that level

166

 Nov 05, 2009 at 01:15 PM Anonymous Says:

this is such sinas chinam and such ignorance shown by the writer of this article. i dont expect anything else from the type of zoinists who r extreemly modern and the only thing they r right wing about is killing arabs! other than tht everything is ignorant bull headed thinking that causes hatred

167

 Nov 05, 2009 at 07:32 PM Anonymous Says:

In the late 1940's or early 1950's a delegation of a major establishment Jewish organization, I think it was the the American Jewish Congress, (who were at the time staunch anti-zionists)approached The Satamar Rebbe Zazta"l with a proposition: We are both opposed to the medina, yet we have very few grassroots activists; You on the other hand have many chasidim who follow your anti-zionist teachings, but you lack money. We are willing to substantially aid you financially to fight the zionist regime. The Satmar Rebbe immediately refused the deal. Perplexed, the delegation asked him why, as they both were against zionism and had the same goals. The Rebbe explained: Your hate of zionism is due to your sinas Yisroel, we hate zionism due to our ahavas Yisroel. Anybody that knows anything about the Satmarer Rebbe knows that he was a true ohev Yisroel, and devoted his life to help his fellow Yidden, regardless of their political or religious affilliation. Anybody that knows the Toldos Avrohom Yitzchock Rebbe knows that he is a true disciple of the Satmarer Rebbe - a staunch anti-zionist with true and pure ahavas Yisroel for every Jew.

168

 Nov 05, 2009 at 08:15 PM It's called p-u-n-c-t-u-a-t-i-o-n Says:

Reply to #75  
Anonymous Says:

Amazing the ignorence of this writer and blatent am haretz first he asks is there kosher our kosher is there standard our standard you are right it's not fornetly for us it's better I'm not ashamed to say unfornetly I'm not on that madreigah and that's the reason we admier and respect them that they can live that way than this tipesh asks would they extend the same curtesy of hacnoses orchim my friend it's obvies you have never spent real time in real yerushalayim couse there is no comunety in the world that stands close to this 2 in anyway in this regard than he shows vos far an am harutz he is when he dosent know the basic halcha that aniyeh ertez yisroal are considerd aniyeh ircha and they come first couse they are also aniyeh eretz yisrale further more this peppol stand up for there belive I might not agree but what in the world have you ever stood up for what in the world are your belives and if you had a tzarah in life who is the first rebbe you would run to and stand in line for a blessing your just a hipocrite you have no standerds and why can't a rebbe rule his strong hold thr way he sees fit he hasent told you how to dreas in america and did he or his followers couse a chilul hashem did u miss the notice where they threw the guy in charge of it out oh we may not protest couse you think it's a chilul hashem have you ever learnd the hilchos of chlul hashem I doubght it couse I have and if we go there your way of life is s far greter chilul hashem you are mechalel hashem with your voulger speech with your lusting eyes and your unbecoming dread code day in day out so let's not go there it's a far greter chilul to be mechalel in front of a goy and frumeh yid and in front of hashem himself than in front of a mechalel shabosd bfarhesyah acourding to the chazon is there is no chilul hashem at all in front of a chilony in eretz yisroel so untill you don't learn a thing or 2 you should shut up I'm sick and tiers of your blatent narishkiet and yes there are others to suppert here and abroad by my gut feeiling is you have an excuse for not suporting this non working paresites as you would call them eitherf didn't you just say last week somthing about they should work they don't deserve my money and if it wasent last week it was the Time before that but you know what I'm saying so let's cut the crab be honest and say it I hate frum Jews couse I'm gelless and the truth hurts I feel guilty so I'll smear them shame on you

And I thought #68 was scary. This guy might have him beat.

169

 Nov 05, 2009 at 10:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #151  
Anonymous Says:

Its not your town i too live in Lawrence, I have met the rebbe and when my modern orthodox brother needed help it was the rebbe who helped him you are a am haaretz, sonei yisroel and a disgrace to our wonderful community who gives so much tzedaka, do you want our town to be known as a bunch of misnagdim! do you ever think that one of the reasons h'kbh gave us the money is in order to help these tzaddikim? you dont like them dont come to the tishim but otherwise keep your mouth shut. be a good yid. Mayer Fertig will have a din vicheshbon after 120 for all the lies he writes. The jewish star has to find out that although there is the amendment of freedom of press there still a GOD! and he has halachos and one of them is Loshon Hara!

How arrogant are you that you can even suggest that YOU understand anything that HKBH does. YOU know that HKBH gave us money it is to help these "Tzadikim"?. Yes, I don't like people who come to my community who do not believe in anything our community stands for. This Rebbe does not send his Chassidim to work, he teaches his Chassidim that the Medinah is wrong, and he aligns himself with the Neturei Karta who are disgusting to all walks of religious life in Lawrence. He is here only to collect money, and believe me there are so many local institutions that are in serious financial situations..

170

 Nov 06, 2009 at 08:44 AM joe Says:

Reply to #162  
Anonymous Says:

What an awesomely shameful piece of literature! To describe two such tremendous leaders of Israel in these terms is quite simply a disgusting act! I'm sure that the Rebbes do not support the violence that takes place in their neighborhoods, and the fact that their communities have different halachic standards is no reason to look down at them or chase them out of town. Their destitute Jews are no worse than ours, and their Mosdos do just as great a job in ensuring the continuation of Torah as ours do!

what makes them tremendous leaders?
a leader leads
a REAL leader would tell his people how to behave
are these leaders destitute people learning a trade
the talmud says it is a fathers responsibility to teach his son to swim and a trade
are these leaders teaching their people trades?
the paper is doing a wonderful job
you may not like the truth

171

 Nov 06, 2009 at 09:03 AM chaim Says:

Reply to #170  
joe Says:

what makes them tremendous leaders?
a leader leads
a REAL leader would tell his people how to behave
are these leaders destitute people learning a trade
the talmud says it is a fathers responsibility to teach his son to swim and a trade
are these leaders teaching their people trades?
the paper is doing a wonderful job
you may not like the truth

the talmud also states you should lead your lives b'kdusha v'taharah, the talmud states myriad of things people like you protest against..so dont pick and choose what suits you

172

 Nov 06, 2009 at 11:16 AM DizzyIzzy Says:

Reply to #171  
chaim Says:

the talmud also states you should lead your lives b'kdusha v'taharah, the talmud states myriad of things people like you protest against..so dont pick and choose what suits you

Excuse me Chaim, but your comment is not just obnoxious, which may lead some to wonder how much "kedusha and tahara" is leading your life, but wholly contradictory:

Based on your logic, you're saying that these Gedolim are no different than "people like you," in this case "joe (#170), and pick and choose what suits them.

Are you sure you want to go with that?

173

 Nov 06, 2009 at 12:21 PM chaim Says:

Reply to #172  
DizzyIzzy Says:

Excuse me Chaim, but your comment is not just obnoxious, which may lead some to wonder how much "kedusha and tahara" is leading your life, but wholly contradictory:

Based on your logic, you're saying that these Gedolim are no different than "people like you," in this case "joe (#170), and pick and choose what suits them.

Are you sure you want to go with that?

you can wonder till tomorrow about my kedushah and taharah. i dont go in public bismirtching such rebbes. that alone puts me (my circle yidden) higher madreige ..yes, now lets hear.we are child molestors, ponzi ganovim, dont pay taxes etc etc go ahead

174

 Nov 06, 2009 at 12:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #172  
DizzyIzzy Says:

Excuse me Chaim, but your comment is not just obnoxious, which may lead some to wonder how much "kedusha and tahara" is leading your life, but wholly contradictory:

Based on your logic, you're saying that these Gedolim are no different than "people like you," in this case "joe (#170), and pick and choose what suits them.

Are you sure you want to go with that?

i know that some one who is more learned than you and will point back at your hypocracy will hurt , but your hocking on thes these rebbes is ok? and thats the problem with those who hate looking at those angeletic faces( and thats the underlying factor behind these issues ,not yes or not giving toward their cause). so lets review ,you and your likes ..hocking on these rebbes (#170 ) is ok, but me pointing out your hypocracy ( # 171) is obnoxious . is it my fault that he truth hurts?

175

 Nov 06, 2009 at 02:46 PM ah chrainkeit Says:

Reply to #173  
chaim Says:

you can wonder till tomorrow about my kedushah and taharah. i dont go in public bismirtching such rebbes. that alone puts me (my circle yidden) higher madreige ..yes, now lets hear.we are child molestors, ponzi ganovim, dont pay taxes etc etc go ahead

Chaim, you modern orthodox are all the same. You pretend to be on a higher madreigah than everyone then you come straight out in public and accuse the TAY of being the type of person who picks and chooses whatever suits!!! You have a chutzpah!!!

Your arrogant attack on these saintly rabbonim is a disgrace, and you need to ask them for mechilah!!!! Rachmonah Letzlan!! Enjoy your fancy house in Lawrence. If you don't change how you talk about gedolim, you won't have it so nice in gehinnom!!!

176

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