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Starke, FL - Jewish Inmate Grossman Put To Death, Last Words of 'heartfelt remorse'; Recites Shema Yisroel, Aguda Expresses 'anguish'

Published on: February 16, 2010 06:24 PM
Last updated on: February 16, 2010 07:44 PM
By: AP News CH. 8
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Starke, FL - Martin Grossman was declared dead at 6:17 p.m. at the Florida state prison in Starke, 15 minutes after the start of his execution by lethal injection.

In a final statement, Grossman expressed remorse to the family of Peggy Park, the Florida wildlife officer he beat and shot to death more than 25 years ago.
“I would like to extend my heartfelt remorse to the victim’s family,” Grossman said. “I fully regret everything that happened that night, everything that was done, whether I remember everything or not. I accept responsibility.”

“I would like to say a prayer,” the 45-year-old man added, then, lying on a gurney, hands strapped to arm boards and with needles in both arms, he began reciting a Jewish prayer called the Schma.

It is the most sacred prayer in Judaism and the first prayer that Jewish children learn. Among its verses: “The Lord is our God, God is one.”

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Park’s brother, sister and mother were among the 20 witnesses to the execution. They were seated directly in front of Grossman, who was visible through a window.

The Vatican, Jewish leaders as far away as Israel, and thousands of petitioners called for a stop to the execution on several grounds, including questions about whether the slaying was premeditated, Grossman’s diminished IQ and his remorse for the crime.

Grossman’s religious adviser, Rabbi Menachem Katz, was with him in his cell throughout the day.

Grossman took a shower and dressed at 4 p.m. He ordered no special last meal, just food from the prison cantina – a fried chicken sandwich, fruit punch, and banana cookies, said Gretl Plessinger, spokeswoman for the state Department of Corrections.

“He is calm, compliant and resolved to the fact his execution is going to happen,” Plessinger said before he was walked to the death chamber.
Grossman’s final visit was 8:30 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. today with his aunt, Rosal Melton, and two female friends, Sharon Lion and Francine Whitehouse. The first two hours, a visitors window separated them and the last hour was a contact visit.

Earlier Tuesday, the U.S. Supreme Court refused today to block Grossman’s execution.

He was sentenced to death for murdering Park on Dec. 13, 1984, as she patrolled a wooded area of Pinellas County now known as the Brooker Creek Preserve.
She came across Grossman, then a 19-year-old high school dropout, and a 17-year-old accomplice. They had a stolen gun. Grossman had already been to prison for grand theft and breaking-and-entering. He didn’t want to go back. They beat Park with a flashlight and shot her with her service revolver.

Last-minute efforts to spare Grossman’s life extended to the Vatican, which sent a letter to Gov. Charlie Crist saying “the prisoner has repented and is now a changed person.” The letter was sent in response to a request from Rabbi Shear-Yashuv Cohen, chief Rabbi of Haifa, Israel.

Grossman is the 69th person executed in Florida since the death penalty was reinstated in 1979, and the 25th by lethal injection. He was the fifth inmate executed under Florida Gov. Charlie Crist, who has been in office for three years.

Crist signed Grossman’s death warrant Jan. 12. Since that time, his office has received about 49,000 letters, telephone calls or e-mails, according to a spokesman.

Below is a statement from Agudath Israel on the execution of Martin Grossman

An Orthodox Jewish organization that had been among several urging Florida Governor Charlie Crist to spare the life of Martin Grossman, and pursuing possible legal avenues to stay implementation of the death penalty, expressed “deep anguish” over his execution this evening.

Mr. Grossman was convicted of killing Ms. Margaret Parks, a Florida Wildlife Officer, in 1984, when he was 19 years old.  In advocating for his life to be spared, the Jewish groups acknowledged the horror of his crime and expressed their deepest sympathy for the family of his victim.  At the same time, they called attention to the fact that the murder was an act of panic, not premeditation; that Mr. Grossman’s low IQ and impaired mental state were not given proper recognition in his death sentence; and that Mr. Grossman has not only conducted himself as a model prisoner since his incarceration some 25 years ago but showed profound remorse and regret for his actions.

“The tragic news out of Florida,” said Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, Agudath Israel of America’s executive vice president, “leaves us feeling deep anguish and sorrow.

“Mr. Grossman’s execution has hit our community very hard.  He was a fellow Jew and so we saw him as a brother.  Countless members of our community had telephoned, e-mailed and faxed the Governor’s office pleading that Mr. Grossman’s sentence be commuted to life in prison.  Unfortunately, our hopes were dashed. 

“There are many lessons one might draw from this terrible tragedy, but in the end we acknowledge ‘Boruch Dayan Ha’emes’ – ‘Blessed be the true Judge’.”



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Total353

Read Comments (353)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:25 PM Richard Nixon Says:

Baruch Dayan Emes.

2

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:26 PM Anonymous Says:

bde

3

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:26 PM Eli Says:

May he rest in piece, and remember that we tried but failed.

4

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:26 PM hoizentrager Says:

Poor soul.. NOW he's in for a ride

5

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:26 PM Anonymous Says:

BDE

6

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:26 PM Anonymous Says:

From the Vatican today: Vatican is calling for mercy for a man scheduled to be executed Tuesday evening for killing a young Florida wildlife officer 25 years ago.

But even the pope doesn't argue that Martin Edward Grossman is innocent.

Grossman, 45, who shot and killed Margaret "Peggy'' Park, 26, on Dec. 13, 1984, "has repented and is now a changed person, having become a man of faith,'' wrote Archbishop Fernando Filoni on behalf of Pope Benedict XVI. He asked for "whatever steps may be possible to save the life of Mr. Grossman.''

Filoni wrote the letter at the behest of the chief rabbi of Israel, Shear-Yashuv Cohen.

7

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:27 PM Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

8

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Hashem Yinkom Dumoi.

9

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:

May Hashem have rachmanus on him.

10

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:27 PM Askan Says:

bde. May the governor and anyone else who caused this to happen recieve a slow and painful death.

11

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:

nebach, my heart is crying

baruch dayan haemes

I daven that the Ribono Shel Olam should never be put another Yid in such a situation

12

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:

:( bdh

13

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:28 PM a yid fin shtaitel Says:

burich dayen hu'emes! that's all i could say now sitting and waiting for a nes mishumayim. lets not forget that the riboinoi shell oilem luvs us. and he only meant goods. may we only share good news.

14

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:28 PM Anonymous Says:

oy. baruch dayan emes. :-(

15

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:28 PM Anonymous Says:

what a shame.........

16

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Good Riddance!

17

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Terrible. BD"H

18

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:29 PM Baruch Dayan Hoemes Says:

Sooo sad!

19

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:29 PM chaimke Says:

BD"H we did all we can Klal yisroel came together so strong atleast it was a big kidush hashem !

20

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:29 PM yossi Says:

Nebech

21

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:30 PM Anonymous Says:

BD"H
Sham on you Gov. Crist

22

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:30 PM o vey Says:

BD'H very sad

23

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:30 PM Mishpat Says:

Justice has been served. He Murdered someone in cold blood. He got what he deserves.

24

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:32 PM broken heart Says:

This country is full of anti semites, what happened to oj, nothing. U wanna know y bec this country is not about freedom its money and honor

25

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:32 PM Anonymous Says:

BDE what a sad day for Klal Yisroel. Nebech on his goirel.

26

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:32 PM Anonymous Says:

He inspired thousands of kapitelach of Tehillim. May his death be mechaper for what he did and may his neshama merit gan eden

27

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:33 PM Gregaaron Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes - what a tragedy (yes, any yid who passes away is a tragedy). Let's hope that those who were hoping for this result have the decency not to say so on this thread.

28

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Florida Gov. Charlie Crist is not going to make it in the next election!

29

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

Agreed.. Throw this man out of office..

30

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:35 PM R.D. Says:

Reply to #1  
Richard Nixon Says:

Baruch Dayan Emes.

Der eibershter firt de velt. ales is mit a cheshbon.

31

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:35 PM Anonymous Says:

BDE. This is a tragedy. Caused by DRUGS...

Obama and the menuval Democrats want to legalize drugs in NY and all States. Our children must be protected. We must say no to legal drugs. Legal marijuana will lead to heroin use and more tragic murders. STAND UP NOW. YELL AT OUR POLITICIANS. NO LEGAL DRUGS !!! NO MURDER OF OUR CHILDREN. Schumer is for needle exchange and cheap legal drugs in NYC. We must say NO !!! Protect our yeshivos from this growing tragedy. We must stop drugs NOW.

32

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:35 PM Noted Askan Says:

Boruch Dayan Haemes
We tried, hashem decided.

33

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:35 PM Anonymous Says:

May he go to Bais Din Shel Maaleh and pray for a speedy redemption for
Klall Yisroel, he died, a true Baal Teshuva and may he be a Kapara for
all of us. This is a tzar for Klall Yisroel, and may he pray in behalf of all
Yidden who took their time and effort to try to reverse the gzeira.
I feel truly sorry for all the vicious people who are now rejoicing at the downfall
of a fellow jew. It is sad to see that while we are a sheep amongst 70 wolves,
we have some wolves amongst us, they are truly the Eirav Rav, may Hashem
eradicate their evil heart. I don't think they are capable of doing Teshuva, their
Bechira has been removed from them a long time ago ,as they are such
vicious sinners.
Hashem li Beozro, Vani ehreh besoine, please keep us far away from
such evil people.
Who knows if these evil posts in your blog were not what sealed Martin
Grossman's fate?

34

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:35 PM Anonymous Says:

reply to #7 I say the sam thing and I will donat money to the other runner

35

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Baruch dayan emes. Very sad.
And if hashem sent his death through the governor of florida, than he can't be a very good person. Bec hashem sends bad through bad pple.
Shame on you governor.

36

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
hoizentrager Says:

Poor soul.. NOW he's in for a ride

ARE YOU CRAZY A Jew with psychiatric issues was just put to death after pleas from all across the spectrum by Jew and non Jew alike after serving already 25 years. All we wanted was a life sentence not even freedom. I am sure the Bais din Shel Mala will be more compassionate then you

37

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:37 PM Anonymous Says:

he most probably davened mincha and said al cheth before he was killed. oy, it hurts, let his neshama have an aliyah.

38

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Eli Says:

May he rest in piece, and remember that we tried but failed.

You didn't necessary fail, it could be that you helped him go up being a religious yid

39

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Bde hashem yinkom dumoi

40

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

From the Vatican today: Vatican is calling for mercy for a man scheduled to be executed Tuesday evening for killing a young Florida wildlife officer 25 years ago.

But even the pope doesn't argue that Martin Edward Grossman is innocent.

Grossman, 45, who shot and killed Margaret "Peggy'' Park, 26, on Dec. 13, 1984, "has repented and is now a changed person, having become a man of faith,'' wrote Archbishop Fernando Filoni on behalf of Pope Benedict XVI. He asked for "whatever steps may be possible to save the life of Mr. Grossman.''

Filoni wrote the letter at the behest of the chief rabbi of Israel, Shear-Yashuv Cohen.

This is just to remind us that we are in galus! He was killed because he was a jew! No other reason! OJ simpson killed his wife or gf and walked away scott free! Why cudn't they plead insanity?? Nebach nebach! Bd"e, that all we can say, we cannot understand the ways of hashem, but we have to know that everything hashem does is for the good even though we may not always see it, and everything is part of his master plan! Hashem should take revenge on his blood! And may we only share good news!!!

41

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:39 PM power up Says:

What bothers me most is the governer's stubberness on the issue.

42

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:39 PM Joe Says:

If you dont mind a little contrariness here:

I don't get all the furor. By any account what this person did was despicable and he would have been put to death by a Jewish Bes Din for the very same act (assuming eidim, etc...). There is no place that I know of where a bes din takes into account "nebach" factors to save a murderer from the death penalty.

While I realize that the American law and Halacha are very different, at the very least, where do we find in halacha that a rotzeach needs this level of rachmanus? I understand if people felt that they should prevent his death due to the mitigating factors, but that is a practical consideration, not an emotional one. But this level of outrage, fury, and raising this person to the level of a saint is very, very disturbing.

Our Torah is the mekor for the cultural acceptance of the death penalty for murder in Western society and we are willing to be supportive when the murderer is not one of ours, but somehow we scream and shout and get into a lather when there is punishment for a vicious killer who is one of ours.

Sorry folks. I dont care how many of you disagree with me, I am finding this really disturbing.

43

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:39 PM Nebach Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

Good Riddance!

just ignore this commenter
just wants to inrange us all DO NOT RESPOND TO #16

44

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

Good Riddance!

Watch your words as it might come back to haunt you. Shame on you.

45

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

He inspired thousands of kapitelach of Tehillim. May his death be mechaper for what he did and may his neshama merit gan eden

AMEN!!! yesh koneh oilamo bshaa achas...
As for Governor Crist, I would advise that anyone who lives there never vote for him again.

46

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:41 PM ST Says:

Burich Dayan Emes. I feel sorry to hear this heartbreaking news.Now, For all those that are now proud of this and supported the death penelty let me tell you: you have now absolutely NOTHING out of his execution and that he is no longer alive. for those that DID put in some effort to keep him alive (By eMailing, calling, praying, tzeduda) do have a MITZVA and it will be a 'zechus' forever. Someone with a name for Mishnayes?

47

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:41 PM MID Says:

Baruch dayan emet.

There is only one true dayan, and it is not Charlie Crist or the justices of the Florida or US Supreme Court.

48

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:41 PM Dave Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Florida Gov. Charlie Crist is not going to make it in the next election!

If he loses the Republican Senatorial primary (which is possible) it won't be because he signed an execution warrant.

The Florida Republican party is very much pro-Death Penalty.

49

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:41 PM Anonymous Says:

I wonder how sympathetic the comments would be if the religions of murderer and victim were reversed.

50

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

Um, maybe you want to encourage people to campaign against the Death Penalty? Isn't that something you now oppose?

51

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:42 PM Anonymous Says:

I wonder how sympathetic the comments would be if the religions of murderer and victim were reversed.

52

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:43 PM nuchem Says:

Let's hope that all the florida jews will be heared at the next election

53

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:43 PM ST Says:

Burich Dayan Emes. I feel sorry to hear this heartbreaking news.Now, For all those that are now proud of this and supported the death penelty let me tell you: you have now absolutely NOTHING out of his execution and that he is no longer alive. for those that DID put in some effort to keep him alive (By eMailing, calling, praying, tzeduda) do have a MITZVA and it will be a 'zechus' forever. Someone with a name for Mishnayes?

54

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:43 PM old pop Says:

i hope that he will suffer for this death and lose the electiom=n he seeks

55

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:45 PM Eli Says:

Crist announced May 12, 2009 that he will not run for re-election as governor and will instead run for the US Senate in 2010. Some opponents in the senate race include fellow Republican Marco Rubio[118][119] and Democrat Kendrick Meek.[120] During the 2008 election, Crist was also mentioned as a potential 2012 presidential candidate.[121

56

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:45 PM Anonymous Says:

‎​Tfilas yisrol einen chozres raikom, I"h we will all benefit from klal yisrol's achdos, should his nashuma have a aliay, & wake up to tchias hamasim with every 1 bakurev, umin

57

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

Good Riddance!

I'm only sad that it didn't happen 25 years ago.

58

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

He inspired thousands of kapitelach of Tehillim. May his death be mechaper for what he did and may his neshama merit gan eden

This is probably the best post on this topic. May his death be a Kapara for him.

60

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:48 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

About a half hour before 6, I called the governors office and after making my case for a last minute stay I told the secretary to tell Governor Crist that he has gotten name recognition among about three million Jews who never ever heard of him, and among them there are a few hundred thousand Republican Jews. If he issues a stay he will have positive name recognition to so many Jews who will be grateful to him for this.

That's where I stopped with my comment because I didn't want to jeopardize a last minute stay. Now I will tell you governor that you might have made a few red necks in Florida happy, but this will come to haunt you in any future presidential aspirations as your name is mud. You name will go down in Jewish history as a cruel man to whom politics came before decency and compassion.

61

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:48 PM he was zoche Says:

To die as a baal teshuvah who has a ready place in the world to come.
We nonetheless should share the grief of the victims family and hope that they have closure now that the decree of Hashem has been carried out.
Why Christie was the shliach?? Who knows.

62

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:48 PM Reb Mordechai Says:

Reply to #30  
R.D. Says:

Der eibershter firt de velt. ales is mit a cheshbon.

You are 100% wrong, you can say “ Der eibershter firt de velt. ales is mit a cheshbon", with your own Tzoros, not someone elses Tzoros..

63

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:49 PM Mishnayes Says:

Does anyone know his father's name so we all could learn Mishnayes for his Neshomah.

64

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:49 PM Yaakovshalom Says:

Boruch Dayan Emmes!
Sad, but the Borei Olam has given him a big zchus that people from all over the world said tehillim and davened on his behalf.
May it bring him in good stead in front of the Kisei Hakavod. Amen!!!

65

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
hoizentrager Says:

Poor soul.. NOW he's in for a ride

How do you know whats in store for him? Maybe he made complete teshuvah-so dont judge what u dont know

66

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

Do you think Grist cares about the opinion of a bunch of Jews that vacation in his state? He's up for a Senate seat and wants to show the rest of FL & the US that he's tough on cop killers. He didn't want his opponents to use this as a means of showing he can be swayed- Justice is Justice. This is nothing other then a decree being caried out since last Rosh Hashona- JUST REMEMBER NEXT YEAR TO HAVE MORE KAVVANA WHEN YOU SAY UNISANA TOKEF- MEI YICHYEAH, UMEI YOMUS.

67

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
ST Says:

Burich Dayan Emes. I feel sorry to hear this heartbreaking news.Now, For all those that are now proud of this and supported the death penelty let me tell you: you have now absolutely NOTHING out of his execution and that he is no longer alive. for those that DID put in some effort to keep him alive (By eMailing, calling, praying, tzeduda) do have a MITZVA and it will be a 'zechus' forever. Someone with a name for Mishnayes?

The family of the ones he murdered has justice-Im sure you wouldnt be saying this if it was your daughter that he murdered

68

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Mishpat Says:

Justice has been served. He Murdered someone in cold blood. He got what he deserves.

dont give me that story that he deserved to get killed he was purly insain and the doctors said it to!!!! and you should pleas not be dan on another yids blood

69

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:51 PM Pashuteh Yid Says:

While I wrote the Gov and others on the list, and tried my best to have his life spared, I now realize that this was wrong. I didn't want to write this post until after the execution, but the drugs defense was obviously ridiculous, and we would never agree with that defense for any other murderer. Although he really did have a difficult childhood, and experienced the sickness and loss of his father and an inadequate mother, nevertheless, as others pointed out, many on death row have experienced very difficult situations. If the governor had granted clemency, this would have been used as a precedent in case law and prevented any use of the death penalty anywhere. Every lawyer would say, but you pardoned Grossman, why not my client. It was a heinous crime. We have no right to judge our own differently than we would judge others. Not a single one of us would have asked for clemency in similar circumstances for a non-Jew.

The lesson must be that murder is never acceptable no matter what your circumstances are (unless it is self-defense) period. It is a terrible tragedy, and the Parks family deserved this closure. Justice has been served fairly by Bnei Noach.May we know no more tzaar

70

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #30  
R.D. Says:

Der eibershter firt de velt. ales is mit a cheshbon.

But people have a Bechirah, and everyone knows what they chose.

71

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:51 PM Moshe Phoenix Says:

I have had trouble having rachmunis on Mr. Grossman. He committed a heinous, vile crime against a young women, who was just doing her job, and was not a danger to him. It seems that Mr. Grossman was not a model citizen prior to this crime, as he was on probation at the time. I can't buy the excuse that he was on drugs. Sorry, the poor woman was murdered., there is no excuse. When it's not one of ours who is the convict, are we as compassionate for the criminal? I feel for the victim's family who have had to spend all these years feeling the pain of losing their family member in such a violent way. Mr. Grossman had many more years alive than the victim did. Would we have had such rachmonis for the perpetrator if he had r"l killed any of our relatives. I think not.

72

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Charlie Crist is an achzir and a mechutzif to the highest degree! To ignore all the calls from organizations, religious leaders, the Pope.... Charlie vett zicher brennen in Gehenom!!
I am also putting my condo in Miami on the market - I wanna get out of that sick state!!

73

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:52 PM Anonymous Says:

The Gov of Florida was not pushed around by people who have no idea of compassion and care.

Congragualtion Gov Crist for standing up to those who were greatly mistaken.

We Jews dont understand a very simple thing.

This murderer YMS caused horrific damage to a family.

Nay a word was mentioned of the young police women by all the gemachteh schnorishe "RABBIS" who rallied on hehalf of this murderer.

Shame on us for pandering on behalf of a convicted murderer.

We have done a huge chillul hashem for prostrating ourselves on behalf of this murderer.

We are that dumb and so we will be pointed out for retribution.When you live amongst the goyim in their land you learn as a Jew to lay low like a worm.

THis is not your country..You are a guest in America and you better learn your place.

What part of that do you dumb fools not understand?.

Do you think that having a menorah at the White House gives you the right to interfere in the criminal justice system of the country?

He, YMS got his just deserts...Now G-d will deal with him..

74

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:53 PM Anonymous Says:

OJ killed his white wife and the black jury freed him. Lemerik Nelson killed Yankel Rosenbaum and the black jury freed him and went out to celebrate with him. But G-d has his ways by brothers. Haiti was hit by G-d because the 19 others who did not get arrested for killing yankel Rosenbaum fled to Haiti and so 19 years later after the crown heights pogrom the whole country was smashed.

75

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
Dave Says:

If he loses the Republican Senatorial primary (which is possible) it won't be because he signed an execution warrant.

The Florida Republican party is very much pro-Death Penalty.

Again proving you ignorance of this case,many pro death penalty people from the gop even in floriday were calling for a 60 day stay.

79

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:54 PM Anonymous Says:

To all you nebech kvetchers what would you say if the victem was your mother or sister??? I can't stand rachmunis in the wrong place we tried to help but the braving is overdone may he reast in pease the riboino shel oilem will take care of evil we can't controll

80

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

This is just to remind us that we are in galus! He was killed because he was a jew! No other reason! OJ simpson killed his wife or gf and walked away scott free! Why cudn't they plead insanity?? Nebach nebach! Bd"e, that all we can say, we cannot understand the ways of hashem, but we have to know that everything hashem does is for the good even though we may not always see it, and everything is part of his master plan! Hashem should take revenge on his blood! And may we only share good news!!!

I am horrified by the execution and wrote to Governor Crist, but please, this is not an issue of anti-semitism. A lot of christians get executed in this country. Nor does this have anything to do with O.J. Grossman was guilty. A completely different jury in another state found O.J. innocent. The issue concerning Grossman was what was the appropriate punishment.

81

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:55 PM Anonymous Says:

He was a murderer who deserved to die. I am mortified that the frum community rallied to save him.

82

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:56 PM Anonymous Says:

to #42 death by bes din was only once in 70 - 80 years and not #70 in 30 years
and to all of u people that are angry at the gov. and all the people involved in this tragady dose any one know who is going to say kaidsh for this man???

83

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:56 PM I'm with you Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

Good Riddance!

My sentiments EXACTLY! GOOD RIDDANCE!!! We don't this kind of garbage, Jew or Not...

84

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:57 PM to # 30 Says:

ales is mit a chesbon is used for oneself when a id is making a persoal chesbon hanafesh.
When we look at another yid pain or suffering we most have rachmonus and feel bad for him.
One can only be matzdik the din on oneself!!!

85

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:57 PM Amen - Time for Nekama now Says:

Reply to #10  
Askan Says:

bde. May the governor and anyone else who caused this to happen recieve a slow and painful death.

It's time to avenge the unjust murder of Grosman.

It is the responsibility of all Florida voters to make sure to vote for the opponent of the current Governor Charlie Crist.

It is also the responsibility of all Yidden and even of Lehavdil Goyim, who see the injustice in this Murder today, to donate money to help the Opponent of the current Governor Charlie Crist.

The Christians, (In Yiddish they are called by the Governors name " the CHRIST'n") have Murdered Yidden throughout all generations and todays murder by Charlie Crist must be avenged.

86

 Feb 16, 2010 at 06:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
Dave Says:

If he loses the Republican Senatorial primary (which is possible) it won't be because he signed an execution warrant.

The Florida Republican party is very much pro-Death Penalty.

Cold until the end. I just can't take it.

87

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #49  
Anonymous Says:

I wonder how sympathetic the comments would be if the religions of murderer and victim were reversed.

Good morning. This was explained a million times.

88

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:00 PM just a ha'ora Says:

BDH- everyone should realize though that the Kudsha Brich Hu wanted Martin next to HIM and nothing anyone could do would change that!!he's in a much happier place now, although painful for us to see a yid slaughtered, we must realize that this too falls under the "gam zu l'toivah" category

89

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Mishpat Says:

Justice has been served. He Murdered someone in cold blood. He got what he deserves.

Wow, I am sure that you never ask Hashem for mercy, only for what you deserve, right?

Even though you made a horrible comment I still dont wish for you to get what you deserve.

FYI, justice was not served. It is highly unusual for someone with all the mitigating factors, tainted evidence etc to be put to death.

90

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #42  
Joe Says:

If you dont mind a little contrariness here:

I don't get all the furor. By any account what this person did was despicable and he would have been put to death by a Jewish Bes Din for the very same act (assuming eidim, etc...). There is no place that I know of where a bes din takes into account "nebach" factors to save a murderer from the death penalty.

While I realize that the American law and Halacha are very different, at the very least, where do we find in halacha that a rotzeach needs this level of rachmanus? I understand if people felt that they should prevent his death due to the mitigating factors, but that is a practical consideration, not an emotional one. But this level of outrage, fury, and raising this person to the level of a saint is very, very disturbing.

Our Torah is the mekor for the cultural acceptance of the death penalty for murder in Western society and we are willing to be supportive when the murderer is not one of ours, but somehow we scream and shout and get into a lather when there is punishment for a vicious killer who is one of ours.

Sorry folks. I dont care how many of you disagree with me, I am finding this really disturbing.

you are a boor and an am haaretz. if a beth din sent one person in 75 years to death, it was called a murderous bais din.
this situation would definitely NOT call for the death penalty. In his lucid moments he had a borderline IQ in the 70's. To compound this, in his wisdom, he dabbled in drugs. Any surprise that he did what he did. Not by me. Should he be on the street, a free man. Absolutely NOT. But the death penalty? We are approaching the attitude of the Germans of the early Hitler ysv years, where the non productive, the old, infirm, insane, were conveniently "disposed" of. Few people know that 100's of thousand of loyal Germans lost their beloved one to this tyranny. Whole nursing homes, asylums, were emptied out.
So, here in the good old USA, we let such people roam the street, until they deserve what they get... and the next step is.. Hashem yeracheim.

91

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Let us all protest against legal drugs. Mexican Drug Gangs are selling $10 baggies of heroin in our neighborhoods. We must fight them with all of our might. They want to murder our children and turn them into sick murderers, R"L. We must fight the Democrat Politicians who support legal drugs in NY and NJ. Schumer is a menuval who supports needle exchange and legal drugs. We must vote all these sick Democrats out ASAP -- murderers all of them.

92

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:04 PM BDE Says:

fact 1) killing is evil. anyone does not matter who it is.

fact 2) the harshness on grossman was beacuse the victim was a COP (one of theirs).

fact 3) Gideone Bush (who remembers) was murderd by COPs (on of 'them').

can anyone tell me would there be death penalty to cop murders.

93

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:04 PM Whoever is HIMSELF Mentally disturbed they: "find this disturbing" Says:

Reply to #42  
Joe Says:

If you dont mind a little contrariness here:

I don't get all the furor. By any account what this person did was despicable and he would have been put to death by a Jewish Bes Din for the very same act (assuming eidim, etc...). There is no place that I know of where a bes din takes into account "nebach" factors to save a murderer from the death penalty.

While I realize that the American law and Halacha are very different, at the very least, where do we find in halacha that a rotzeach needs this level of rachmanus? I understand if people felt that they should prevent his death due to the mitigating factors, but that is a practical consideration, not an emotional one. But this level of outrage, fury, and raising this person to the level of a saint is very, very disturbing.

Our Torah is the mekor for the cultural acceptance of the death penalty for murder in Western society and we are willing to be supportive when the murderer is not one of ours, but somehow we scream and shout and get into a lather when there is punishment for a vicious killer who is one of ours.

Sorry folks. I dont care how many of you disagree with me, I am finding this really disturbing.

"I am finding this really disturbing"

The only thing disturbing is that someone like you doesn't understand the simple things which nearly all commenter's here do understand.

I am dan lekaf zchus #42 lack of understanding - perhaps his IQ is like that of Grosman or more likely is that #42 is likely not even Jewish.

94

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #85  
Amen - Time for Nekama now Says:

It's time to avenge the unjust murder of Grosman.

It is the responsibility of all Florida voters to make sure to vote for the opponent of the current Governor Charlie Crist.

It is also the responsibility of all Yidden and even of Lehavdil Goyim, who see the injustice in this Murder today, to donate money to help the Opponent of the current Governor Charlie Crist.

The Christians, (In Yiddish they are called by the Governors name " the CHRIST'n") have Murdered Yidden throughout all generations and todays murder by Charlie Crist must be avenged.

Finally the unjust murder of Ms. Parks was avenged!

95

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:09 PM Thunderbird Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

Why be angry at the Governor? He did his job. If Grossman was a goy and the victim was Jewish, you'd scream bloody murder if he commuted the sentence. the man did tsuva and now has to face the RS"O. Who are you to judge him or the governor.

96

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:11 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #69  
Pashuteh Yid Says:

While I wrote the Gov and others on the list, and tried my best to have his life spared, I now realize that this was wrong. I didn't want to write this post until after the execution, but the drugs defense was obviously ridiculous, and we would never agree with that defense for any other murderer. Although he really did have a difficult childhood, and experienced the sickness and loss of his father and an inadequate mother, nevertheless, as others pointed out, many on death row have experienced very difficult situations. If the governor had granted clemency, this would have been used as a precedent in case law and prevented any use of the death penalty anywhere. Every lawyer would say, but you pardoned Grossman, why not my client. It was a heinous crime. We have no right to judge our own differently than we would judge others. Not a single one of us would have asked for clemency in similar circumstances for a non-Jew.

The lesson must be that murder is never acceptable no matter what your circumstances are (unless it is self-defense) period. It is a terrible tragedy, and the Parks family deserved this closure. Justice has been served fairly by Bnei Noach.May we know no more tzaar

I addressed all your points in my letter to the governor especially that if this should set a precedent then it would be a good precedent that everyone in his situation should be spared. His childhood was only one argument. Your other comments were answered at nauseum in the many articles VIN had on this.

You did the right thing in trying to save him; don't ruin it.

97

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:11 PM Anonymous Says:

hope liberal jews this time will see thru their perverse politics and make sure this evil heartless gov. gets thrown out!!!!!!

98

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

I just donated $500 to Marco Rubio who is running against Charlie Crist for the US Senate in the GOP primary, and $180 to the Democrat Kendrick Meek. I will donate more money as the campaign gets closer.

The days of Charlie Crist are over.

99

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:12 PM NINJA Says:

Reply to #23  
Mishpat Says:

Justice has been served. He Murdered someone in cold blood. He got what he deserves.

I agree. This man was a murderer who was a robber and thief before he was a murderer. Good riddance !

100

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

What you are saying is ridiculous. While I hoped that Grossman would be spared, I cannot blame Gov. Crist for "killing one of our own." As far as Crist was concerned, he was just another murderer. You are suggesting that Jews should be given special treatment, or we will support his opponent. Ridiculous.

102

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #69  
Pashuteh Yid Says:

While I wrote the Gov and others on the list, and tried my best to have his life spared, I now realize that this was wrong. I didn't want to write this post until after the execution, but the drugs defense was obviously ridiculous, and we would never agree with that defense for any other murderer. Although he really did have a difficult childhood, and experienced the sickness and loss of his father and an inadequate mother, nevertheless, as others pointed out, many on death row have experienced very difficult situations. If the governor had granted clemency, this would have been used as a precedent in case law and prevented any use of the death penalty anywhere. Every lawyer would say, but you pardoned Grossman, why not my client. It was a heinous crime. We have no right to judge our own differently than we would judge others. Not a single one of us would have asked for clemency in similar circumstances for a non-Jew.

The lesson must be that murder is never acceptable no matter what your circumstances are (unless it is self-defense) period. It is a terrible tragedy, and the Parks family deserved this closure. Justice has been served fairly by Bnei Noach.May we know no more tzaar

Stop contradicting yourself. If murder is never acceptable unless in the case of self-defense, how do you condone the murder of Grossman by the state, is that "self-defense"? I think not.

103

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #73  
Anonymous Says:

The Gov of Florida was not pushed around by people who have no idea of compassion and care.

Congragualtion Gov Crist for standing up to those who were greatly mistaken.

We Jews dont understand a very simple thing.

This murderer YMS caused horrific damage to a family.

Nay a word was mentioned of the young police women by all the gemachteh schnorishe "RABBIS" who rallied on hehalf of this murderer.

Shame on us for pandering on behalf of a convicted murderer.

We have done a huge chillul hashem for prostrating ourselves on behalf of this murderer.

We are that dumb and so we will be pointed out for retribution.When you live amongst the goyim in their land you learn as a Jew to lay low like a worm.

THis is not your country..You are a guest in America and you better learn your place.

What part of that do you dumb fools not understand?.

Do you think that having a menorah at the White House gives you the right to interfere in the criminal justice system of the country?

He, YMS got his just deserts...Now G-d will deal with him..

How dare you call a Yid who just died "YMS"? Shame on you. The rest of your comment doesn't deserve an answer.

104

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

Good Riddance!

Good riddance? Why? If he had lived, would he have bothered you?

105

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Mishpat Says:

Justice has been served. He Murdered someone in cold blood. He got what he deserves.

are you smarter from allerlaca yidien and if someone is on drugs

106

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Shame on you governor of florida. Does anyone have a clue who is opponent in the senate race is, and how I can volunteer to the campaign and where to donate money. Please share me this information

107

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:16 PM Jew in South Florida Says:

I just made an $18 (chai) contribution to Rubio for senate against charlie. here is the donation link: https://www.marcorubio.com/donate/

please everyone donate money to him

108

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Mishpat Says:

Justice has been served. He Murdered someone in cold blood. He got what he deserves.

i never tought there is such bad ppl like you i dont think that you want hashem to do to you only justice and pay you for all bad you did and doing

109

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:16 PM Jewish mother Says:

BDE
Martin Grossman had in IQ of 77 that means that his mental age was 4 years and 7 months. Only savages execute virtual children!

Charlie Crist has been linked to every crook in FL. (Especially Scott Rothstein).

It is time for FL to clean up the schmutz in Tallahassee.

110

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:17 PM Anonymous Says:

For everyone who says they are going to campaign against Governor Crist, your efforts may be better spent working to stop the death penalty in the united states, or at least work to severely restrict its use (i.e. terrorists, murders for higher, people with at least an average I.Q., premeditated murders, etc.). This cannot be made to be a Jewish issue, it has to be a human issue.

111

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Grossman could have become a moral and good man if he havnt done all those drugs that messed up his mind. Politicians bring the drugs and drug-dealers over the border and they end up in the arms of people like martin.

112

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:20 PM Oh, come on Says:

Reply to #97  
Anonymous Says:

hope liberal jews this time will see thru their perverse politics and make sure this evil heartless gov. gets thrown out!!!!!!

I don't get it. It's Liberal Jews who OPPOSE the Death Penalty. Just because you're not happy with an execution, doesn't mean it's the Liberals who are to blame. Go look in the mirror, buddy.

113

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Askan Says:

bde. May the governor and anyone else who caused this to happen recieve a slow and painful death.

The Governor has an obligation to enforce the law and the sentence handed dowqn by a Judge. Although he had the power to commute the sentence, he made a judgment not to do so. Whether you agree with his decision or not, it was not unreasonable. There is no reason to wish him a painful death.

114

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:20 PM Anonymous Says:

I would like to say thank you to the rabbis who counseled Mr. Grossman in prison and stood by and comforted him until the end. It must be extraordinarily stressful, painful and draining to work with death row inmates and definitely takes a special type of person to do and to do well.

115

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #95  
Thunderbird Says:

Why be angry at the Governor? He did his job. If Grossman was a goy and the victim was Jewish, you'd scream bloody murder if he commuted the sentence. the man did tsuva and now has to face the RS"O. Who are you to judge him or the governor.

Because the governor showed himself as a cruel man, that's why. You can say that the executioner who inserted the lethal injection did his/her job, but the governor surely didn't.

116

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
broken heart Says:

This country is full of anti semites, what happened to oj, nothing. U wanna know y bec this country is not about freedom its money and honor

I guess anti-Semitism also explains why others (none of them Jewish) are executed for murder.

117

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

His Republican opponent Rubio would've signed the death warrant even faster than Crist.

Frankly, probably so would have the Democratic candidate (though there might've been a hope at least there)

118

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:22 PM Chaim Says:

It's tragic that his life wasn't spared, but he did t'shuva, put in tefillin every day, and davened three times a day at the end. B"H he will see gan eiden and hopefully his neshama will daven for all those that davened for him.

119

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to no. 42. How can you compare when according to the Torah the witnesses must warn a person just before he commits the murder as well as telling him what will happen if he goes ahead. Where here it was done on the spur of the moment in desparation (and maybe thinking that was going to be killed) without warning him not to do it, without warning him of the consequences if he does do it.

120

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Rabosai, we must learn a lesson from this. What is the lesson? FIGHT ILLEGAL DRUGS with all of our might. Forget about the Governor. The issue is that TODAY the DEMOCRATS and OBAMA and SCHUMER want legal high power MARIJUANA sold in stores around NYC. WE MUST STOP THIS with all of our might. START campaigning against illegal Mexican Drug Gangs selling HEROIN in Brooklyn for $10 a dose. Our Yeshivas are in danger. OUR CHILDREN CAN BE TURNED INTO DRUG ADDICTS BY THESE MENUVAL DEMOCRAT POLITICIANS. This is the lesson to learn.

121

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #85  
Amen - Time for Nekama now Says:

It's time to avenge the unjust murder of Grosman.

It is the responsibility of all Florida voters to make sure to vote for the opponent of the current Governor Charlie Crist.

It is also the responsibility of all Yidden and even of Lehavdil Goyim, who see the injustice in this Murder today, to donate money to help the Opponent of the current Governor Charlie Crist.

The Christians, (In Yiddish they are called by the Governors name " the CHRIST'n") have Murdered Yidden throughout all generations and todays murder by Charlie Crist must be avenged.

The opponent of Charlie Crist is an even more right-wing fanatic named Marco Rubio, which is part of the reason Crist would not budge on this case: he wanted to out-conservative his younger more rabid opponent.

If you are really serious about eliminating the death penalty, and happen to live in a death penalty state, you need to vote for state Democratic congressional representatives to overturn state death penalty laws.

122

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #91  
Anonymous Says:

Let us all protest against legal drugs. Mexican Drug Gangs are selling $10 baggies of heroin in our neighborhoods. We must fight them with all of our might. They want to murder our children and turn them into sick murderers, R"L. We must fight the Democrat Politicians who support legal drugs in NY and NJ. Schumer is a menuval who supports needle exchange and legal drugs. We must vote all these sick Democrats out ASAP -- murderers all of them.

Alcohol leads to as many murders, if not more, as illegal drugs and is as much a gateway to hard drugs as marijuana, if not more, so lets bring back prohibition.

123

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

May he go to Bais Din Shel Maaleh and pray for a speedy redemption for
Klall Yisroel, he died, a true Baal Teshuva and may he be a Kapara for
all of us. This is a tzar for Klall Yisroel, and may he pray in behalf of all
Yidden who took their time and effort to try to reverse the gzeira.
I feel truly sorry for all the vicious people who are now rejoicing at the downfall
of a fellow jew. It is sad to see that while we are a sheep amongst 70 wolves,
we have some wolves amongst us, they are truly the Eirav Rav, may Hashem
eradicate their evil heart. I don't think they are capable of doing Teshuva, their
Bechira has been removed from them a long time ago ,as they are such
vicious sinners.
Hashem li Beozro, Vani ehreh besoine, please keep us far away from
such evil people.
Who knows if these evil posts in your blog were not what sealed Martin
Grossman's fate?

I don't like to speak badly of the dead, but in the interest of Emes, I have this question. If he was a Baal Tshuva, why did his last meal include a chicken sandwich from the prison kitchen? It surely was Treif.

124

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:27 PM Anonymous Says:

to #42 your view of torah law and beis din and execution is completely skewed and ignorant. And the Torah does in fact take into account people who are judged to be shogeg and mazid and all secular courts should take into account intent. You should say tehillim for his neshoma and beg forgivness. To compare Torah law in capital cases to secular law is completely crazy. Aside from the religious factors Bais Din would never take a witness that could benefit from the outcome of a case

125

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #98  
Anonymous Says:

I just donated $500 to Marco Rubio who is running against Charlie Crist for the US Senate in the GOP primary, and $180 to the Democrat Kendrick Meek. I will donate more money as the campaign gets closer.

The days of Charlie Crist are over.

Marco Rubio is just as much a right-wing fanatic who would do the exact same thing given the opportunity. You just wasted $500.

126

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:29 PM Anonymous Says:

He deserved nothing less than death.

This tub of lard had an easier death than his victim..I wont cry a river for him.

As far as those who made fools of themselves by promoting his cause..All I can say I hope it doesnt come back to bit us all.

127

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:

To all Posters that say good riddance you should feel very lucky Hashem judges with more Rachamim then you. BTW this is the same legal system where dozens of inmates on death row have been wrongly convicted(for some the exoneration was to late), and the same legal system that let OJ simpson go.

128

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:33 PM Anonymous Says:

To the absurd bums out there, who have rachmanus on a goy:

Listen up, it is stated in our holy sforim that the way one judges his fellow jew, that same way he himself is judged.

So be careful..

And you 42

Yes there is a consept of rachmanos in a Beis Din. If there is just a minor Zchus even if was brought by the convict himself, it is reconsiderd.

129

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #79  
Anonymous Says:

To all you nebech kvetchers what would you say if the victem was your mother or sister??? I can't stand rachmunis in the wrong place we tried to help but the braving is overdone may he reast in pease the riboino shel oilem will take care of evil we can't controll

I don't know how I would feel if the victim were a loved one and may none of us ever know. However, there have been many situations over the years where family members have been able to forgive their loved one's murderer and believe that life in prison is sufficient.

130

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:33 PM Anonymous Says:

i feel so touched that he said shema before he died. :-(

131

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:34 PM MID Says:

Today is a very sad day for me and, I think, for the Jewish People. The death of any Jew is reason to mourn. But I have to say this: I am proud of my People and am proud to be Jewish. We came together as one, frum and non-frum, yeshivish, chasidish, modern, whatever. Even Chabad and Satmar managed to come together to co-sign a letter on Michoel Yechiel's behalf.

We should know no more tzaar. U'balah hamavet lanetzach. (Perhaps we should start by working to end the death penalty for all, so no one will need to go through this again.)

132

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #99  
NINJA Says:

I agree. This man was a murderer who was a robber and thief before he was a murderer. Good riddance !

You're also disgusting! How can you condemn a man to his death? Do you know all the facts? Were you witness to his crime? Maybe there's a shred of evidence that not everything happened as was reported. If he was guilty Hashem would punish him. Why did he have to be executed?

133

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #60  
Askupeh Says:

About a half hour before 6, I called the governors office and after making my case for a last minute stay I told the secretary to tell Governor Crist that he has gotten name recognition among about three million Jews who never ever heard of him, and among them there are a few hundred thousand Republican Jews. If he issues a stay he will have positive name recognition to so many Jews who will be grateful to him for this.

That's where I stopped with my comment because I didn't want to jeopardize a last minute stay. Now I will tell you governor that you might have made a few red necks in Florida happy, but this will come to haunt you in any future presidential aspirations as your name is mud. You name will go down in Jewish history as a cruel man to whom politics came before decency and compassion.

I didn't hear from you when Crist rewfused to grant clemency to non-Jewish murderers. According to you, Crist shuld have spared his life only beause he was a Jew. Nonsense.

134

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Askan Says:

bde. May the governor and anyone else who caused this to happen recieve a slow and painful death.

Gov.Crist didn't cause it.
The murderer caused it.

135

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #106  
Anonymous Says:

Shame on you governor of florida. Does anyone have a clue who is opponent in the senate race is, and how I can volunteer to the campaign and where to donate money. Please share me this information

I gave $1,000 now to Marco Rubio instead of giving it to Charlie Crist like I have done in years past.

136

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Did Rubio say he would have given Grossman clemency?

137

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:38 PM YSB Says:

In my eyes, the Governor who killed to enhance his political carrier, did a far worse crime, then someone killing to stop someone from locking him up in prison.
history is full of people who killed to grab power, so its not a new phenomenon, it just the modern way of doing it .

138

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:38 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #110  
Anonymous Says:

For everyone who says they are going to campaign against Governor Crist, your efforts may be better spent working to stop the death penalty in the united states, or at least work to severely restrict its use (i.e. terrorists, murders for higher, people with at least an average I.Q., premeditated murders, etc.). This cannot be made to be a Jewish issue, it has to be a human issue.

I agree with you, that we need to either oppose the death penalty or at least reserve it by law to terrorists, mass murderers or serial killers. If it is given to premeditated murder then at least it should fit its dictionary definition fully.

Out of this whole thing I am now not anymore for the death penalty except for the three classes mentioned.

139

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:38 PM moshe Says:

Finally some closure!! If someone thinks he could get high and do something stupid here's your lesson. on behalf of anyone who believes in justice good job governor christ!!!

140

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:39 PM makes sense Says:

Reply to #119  
Anonymous Says:

Reply to no. 42. How can you compare when according to the Torah the witnesses must warn a person just before he commits the murder as well as telling him what will happen if he goes ahead. Where here it was done on the spur of the moment in desparation (and maybe thinking that was going to be killed) without warning him not to do it, without warning him of the consequences if he does do it.

Usually when somebody beats and then shoots an officer in a heavily wooded area, two people jump out of the bushes to explain the consequences to him. I don't know where they were this time!

I'm guessing you forgive all murders, with this logic. Then you're more forgiving than most people!

141

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:40 PM MID Says:

Reply to #114  
Anonymous Says:

I would like to say thank you to the rabbis who counseled Mr. Grossman in prison and stood by and comforted him until the end. It must be extraordinarily stressful, painful and draining to work with death row inmates and definitely takes a special type of person to do and to do well.

I have met Rabbi Katz, and he is indeed an extraordinary person. Thank you for making such a gracious comment.

142

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:40 PM anon Says:

Wow - all these anti obama republicans are now against the death penalty. The hypocrisy is astonishing.

143

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:40 PM DizzyIzzy Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

reply to #7 I say the sam thing and I will donat money to the other runner

I doubt that you'll donate any money to anyone. I doubt you know who the other candidate is. And I doubt if you even voted in your last local election.

144

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:40 PM A Lakewooder Says:

One of the prime reasons states have death penalties at all, is as a deterrent to murder. It would have been expected that states that have the death penalty would have lower murder rates than states that don't. However study after study by scientists and leading criminologists reveal that this is not the case. In fact the data shows that death penalty states do not have lower homicide rates than states that have abolished capital punishment.

145

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:40 PM kosher? Says:

Reply to #119  
Anonymous Says:

Reply to no. 42. How can you compare when according to the Torah the witnesses must warn a person just before he commits the murder as well as telling him what will happen if he goes ahead. Where here it was done on the spur of the moment in desparation (and maybe thinking that was going to be killed) without warning him not to do it, without warning him of the consequences if he does do it.

If he became frum, why did he choose a treif fried chicken sandwich for his last meal? He could have requested a kosher meal be brought in and they would have replied, or at least had something that wasn't meat. Maybe his frumkeit (davening three times a day) wasn't so thorough?

146

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #72  
Anonymous Says:

Charlie Crist is an achzir and a mechutzif to the highest degree! To ignore all the calls from organizations, religious leaders, the Pope.... Charlie vett zicher brennen in Gehenom!!
I am also putting my condo in Miami on the market - I wanna get out of that sick state!!

Governors constantly get pleas from the Pope and numerous organizations and individuals asking that a murderer be spared the death penalty. Are you saying that every Governor who ignores those pleas is an Achzor? Or is he only an Achzor because Grossman was Jewish. Should Crist have made a decision in his favor just because he was a Jew?

147

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #127  
Anonymous Says:

To all Posters that say good riddance you should feel very lucky Hashem judges with more Rachamim then you. BTW this is the same legal system where dozens of inmates on death row have been wrongly convicted(for some the exoneration was to late), and the same legal system that let OJ simpson go.

Don't confuse them with the facts. They are too busy dancing on someone else's grave right about now, to be concerned with our less than perfect legal system.

149

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:44 PM dinadimalchusahdina Says:

i believe according to the florida justice sysytem he was sentanced fairly he was a murderer not a victim i understand the inclanation of feelings of sympathy for the death of a fellow jew but it would be nice for commenters to express their sympathies for another innocent human being who was murdered without reason, bessed is the true judge may his neshamah have an aliyah and may klal yisroel learn from this horrible experience and understand he wasnt killed because he was a jew it was because he commited murder and people its not anti semitism ITS THE LAW

150

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #136  
Anonymous Says:

Did Rubio say he would have given Grossman clemency?

I cannot reveal more than say that rubio acted very decently.

151

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:47 PM MID Says:

Reply to #110  
Anonymous Says:

For everyone who says they are going to campaign against Governor Crist, your efforts may be better spent working to stop the death penalty in the united states, or at least work to severely restrict its use (i.e. terrorists, murders for higher, people with at least an average I.Q., premeditated murders, etc.). This cannot be made to be a Jewish issue, it has to be a human issue.

Amen. You are exactly correct. It also cannot be just a Democratic or liberal issue either. George Ryan, the former Republican governor of Illinois, commuted the sentences of everyone on Illinois' death row, lest an innocent man be killed. Anthony Porter was two days away from execution at the time, and was later exonerated by scientific evidence.

Pat Robertson, Oliver North, and George Will, all men with impeccable conservative and Republican credentials, all oppose the death penalty for a number of good, conservative reasons. It is worth looking into their arguments (which I won't go into here). Republicans and conservatives need to understand that they can oppose the death penalty and still be good conservatives.

152

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:47 PM callmenames Says:

one less murdering thug living on the tax payers tab baruch dayan emes

153

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:49 PM county boy Says:

I think we should continue to send emails to the Gov. To let him know our disappointment in the way he handled the whole affair by not even grant a meeting to the askonim and in his response to all the email didn't address the mental health issues that Mr.Grossman had that could have been verified by many mental health experts in the field.

154

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:49 PM rivkie Says:

Baruch dayan emes. We said a lot of tehillim and prayers and we feel so sad and devasated. But we also feel upset and angry with the governor. He is a heartless person and should not have any votes! He is like Haman harasha!!

155

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #42  
Joe Says:

If you dont mind a little contrariness here:

I don't get all the furor. By any account what this person did was despicable and he would have been put to death by a Jewish Bes Din for the very same act (assuming eidim, etc...). There is no place that I know of where a bes din takes into account "nebach" factors to save a murderer from the death penalty.

While I realize that the American law and Halacha are very different, at the very least, where do we find in halacha that a rotzeach needs this level of rachmanus? I understand if people felt that they should prevent his death due to the mitigating factors, but that is a practical consideration, not an emotional one. But this level of outrage, fury, and raising this person to the level of a saint is very, very disturbing.

Our Torah is the mekor for the cultural acceptance of the death penalty for murder in Western society and we are willing to be supportive when the murderer is not one of ours, but somehow we scream and shout and get into a lather when there is punishment for a vicious killer who is one of ours.

Sorry folks. I dont care how many of you disagree with me, I am finding this really disturbing.

I totally agree. Is it sad that a fellow Jew was put to death, yes 100%. But come on everyone. He was a cold blooded murderer who killed to avoid going back to jail. If you would take the facts of the case and the situation and change the fact that his name is Grosman to another non Jewish sounding name.... everyone would agree that he should be put to death. If you are against the death penalty in general, than I hear you annoyance with the outcome. However, for anyone (Jew included) who is in favor of the death penalty, I do not understand the outrage and am a bit disturbed as well by it. What would everyone's reaction be if this case was during the times of the Jewish Beit Din, when there would have been no 25 years and then execution.... it would have been just simply the latter.

156

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:50 PM Monsey Man Says:

"I fully regret everything that happened that night, everything that was done...."

I oppose the death penalty, but look at his words....not "I regret what I did" but rather "what happened"....not "everything I did" but "everything that was done." These are NOT the words of a man who accepts responsibility. Sorry to those of you who see it otherwise.

157

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:50 PM In the know Says:

Reply to #121  
Anonymous Says:

The opponent of Charlie Crist is an even more right-wing fanatic named Marco Rubio, which is part of the reason Crist would not budge on this case: he wanted to out-conservative his younger more rabid opponent.

If you are really serious about eliminating the death penalty, and happen to live in a death penalty state, you need to vote for state Democratic congressional representatives to overturn state death penalty laws.

Not true, rubio was not a issue in the govonor's decion descion.

158

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:51 PM Dr. Z Says:

This is not the venue for a discussion of the halacha, but basically in halacha one is not executed unless one with full cognition and after received due warning from two 'kosher' witnesses (including being told that his crime will result in capital punishment) kills someone of similar status, ve'ha'mayvin yavin.

Martin Grossman a'h, Hashem inyom damav, has after more than a quarter century on death row now left his physical body and his soul will be judged by the True Judge and the True Court.

However, his last weeks and days somehow galvanized tens of thousands of Yidden.

What will we do with this unity?

Will we live up to his reported last words and seek Ahavas Yisroel?

Will we be there for those truly innocent elderly patients and severely disabled infants who are targets by doctors and nurses for death due to 'futile care' theory?

Will we rally to their support and send thousands of emails to hospital executives who week to pull the plug, against family wishes, on our disabled brethren?

Will our organizations rise to the occasion and come out against involuntary euthanasia of our disabled, those truly innocent Yidden who are deemed a burden on society?

159

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:51 PM Jewish mother Says:

Martin Grossman had an IQ of 77. That means that his mental age was 4 years and 7 months old.

The Supreme Court in 2002 banned the execution of mentally retarded inmates with IQs of 70 or below in Atkins v. Virginia, 01-8452.

As a result a number of inmates throughout the country with IQ's in the mentally retarded range had their death sentences commuted.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/sentence-reversals-mental-retardation-cases

In fact in FL, as a result of Atkins v. Virginia, three inmates have had their death sentences reduced when experts found them to be mentally retarded, in similar intelligence rangse to that of Martin Grossman but of course none of the other inmates were Jewish.

160

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:51 PM Steven Says:

Reply to #24  
broken heart Says:

This country is full of anti semites, what happened to oj, nothing. U wanna know y bec this country is not about freedom its money and honor

Yes It is a shame BDE, that he was killed. BUT PLEASE stop with the cries of antisemetism!!! Florida kills whether you're Jewish, Christian, mentally challenged etc. OJ is a whole other matter that doesn't deserve mentioning here.

161

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:53 PM Babishka Says:

Baruch dayan emes. He has done teshuva and has received a kapporah and justice for the victim, now we can say may he rest in peace.

162

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:54 PM Perry Says:

In principle, against the death penalty as it is barbaric!! The US insists on putting killers to death especially law enforcement officers....It hurts when any Jew suffers but he must pay the consequences according to the law of the land...
bde

163

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:55 PM jay Says:

For all of us real Jewish people ( not the fake once posting comments here under Jewish names)
We need to make sure that with the dead of Martin Grossman the political career of Gov. Charlie Crist
Died as well

164

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:55 PM Anonymous Says:

I too look at capital punishment differently now. I am so saddened & sickened by this. BD"E.

165

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #155  
Anonymous Says:

I totally agree. Is it sad that a fellow Jew was put to death, yes 100%. But come on everyone. He was a cold blooded murderer who killed to avoid going back to jail. If you would take the facts of the case and the situation and change the fact that his name is Grosman to another non Jewish sounding name.... everyone would agree that he should be put to death. If you are against the death penalty in general, than I hear you annoyance with the outcome. However, for anyone (Jew included) who is in favor of the death penalty, I do not understand the outrage and am a bit disturbed as well by it. What would everyone's reaction be if this case was during the times of the Jewish Beit Din, when there would have been no 25 years and then execution.... it would have been just simply the latter.

A Jewish beit din could not execute Grossman based on the evidence. sorry, bad argument.

166

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:58 PM The Death Penalty I Wrong Says:

On a general basis the Death Penalty does have a reasonable basis since it deters others from committing similar crimes. However, if it is proven that even one out of a million people that were killed were innocent than the entire capital punishment system is flawed. There is currently a case in Texas where a man was convicted and executed for burning down his house with his daughter in it. Turns out, the forensic analyst was wrong and the fire was the result of an electric heater and was not intentionally set. The supreme court is currently reviewing this case, and they may rule capital punishment as unconstitutional.

167

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:59 PM Tedek Tzedek Tirdoif Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

Would you feel the same if the prisoners name was Jose Rodrguez, Tyrone Washington, Vito Jaquarino, or Ian McGilacutty? Perhaps it's time for all of you death penalty advocates to rexamine your position. The plethora of prosecutororial misconduct, tainted evidence, refusal to consider new DNA evidence, and suspect or coerced prosocution witnesses, have turned me from a staunch death penalty advocate to an equally staunch death penalty opponent. As for your political donations, candidates for poltiical office change their positions as often as you change your socks. If you're wondering where to donate your money, The Innocence Project would be a good place to start. They have mannaged to prove the innocence of many prisoners on death row

168

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #162  
Perry Says:

In principle, against the death penalty as it is barbaric!! The US insists on putting killers to death especially law enforcement officers....It hurts when any Jew suffers but he must pay the consequences according to the law of the land...
bde

the laws of the land are skewed to put someone to death on a technichality. this was not a law he could have been commuted to life. To even be dan likaf zechus on the people who executed him is amazing to me only simchas and daven for all of klal yisrael

169

 Feb 16, 2010 at 07:59 PM correction Says:

Reply to #143  
DizzyIzzy Says:

I doubt that you'll donate any money to anyone. I doubt you know who the other candidate is. And I doubt if you even voted in your last local election.

He didn't say he'd donate. He said he said he sam [sic] thing and he'd donat [sic]. Maybe that means something else.

171

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:01 PM lol Says:

darn anti semites BEWARE they are coming for you next !!! (if you murder somone in cold blood)

172

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:02 PM Askan (#10) Says:

Reply to #113  
Anonymous Says:

The Governor has an obligation to enforce the law and the sentence handed dowqn by a Judge. Although he had the power to commute the sentence, he made a judgment not to do so. Whether you agree with his decision or not, it was not unreasonable. There is no reason to wish him a painful death.

Someone who ignores so many requests is a rosho. Someone who kills someone who is not meant to be killed is a rotzeach. This makes him a rosho and a rotzeach. And i stick to my earlier comment.

173

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:02 PM arik Says:

Do not blame the governor he did the job he is elected to do. We are blessed to live in a land of some sort of law and order. As jews we did what we could, and the law system did their job. Do not cry antisemitism etc. It serves us no good.

174

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #85  
Amen - Time for Nekama now Says:

It's time to avenge the unjust murder of Grosman.

It is the responsibility of all Florida voters to make sure to vote for the opponent of the current Governor Charlie Crist.

It is also the responsibility of all Yidden and even of Lehavdil Goyim, who see the injustice in this Murder today, to donate money to help the Opponent of the current Governor Charlie Crist.

The Christians, (In Yiddish they are called by the Governors name " the CHRIST'n") have Murdered Yidden throughout all generations and todays murder by Charlie Crist must be avenged.

What planet are you from? How is executing a man that commited a crime that came with it a punishment of death unjust. Execution in general is contoversial... that is why so many people are opposed to it.... but unjust? What is unjust is that Ms. park was killed instantly in the woods and this murderer (unfortunately a fellow Jew) was allowed to live 25 years before himself being executed..... Would you feel this execution was just as unjust if the name was O'Malley, or Johnson, or Smith?

175

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #106  
Anonymous Says:

Shame on you governor of florida. Does anyone have a clue who is opponent in the senate race is, and how I can volunteer to the campaign and where to donate money. Please share me this information

Can't give Grossman SIXTY days for an appeal? I'm gonna give $60 to Rubio now. That's all.

176

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:05 PM Yoely from Williamsburg Says:

Hashem yankem dmI why is everywhere mentioned zatzal it should be HY''D not Z''L or A''H he was murderd in cold blood hashem should take nkama on his spilled blood!!!!!!!!!!!

177

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:05 PM Anonymous Says:

There are no words to describe our feelings towards Charlie Crist. Just to promote his own political career he allowed the execution of Martin. In all irony Charlie - this is the begining of the end of your career. You've shown us all your true colors - cold and uncaring, not willing to even hear the other side out. WE WILL NOT FORGET, THE VOTERS WILL NOT FORGET!

178

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Please learn Mishnayos for Michoel Yechiel ben Avrohom A”H.

179

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:10 PM E.K. Says:

I'm afraid that the lesson our children will draw from our misplaced compassion is that if you want to become an overnight hero among your orthodox brethren, all you need to do is kill a goy.

180

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
Anonymous Says:

Agreed.. Throw this man out of office..

Please give us a link so we can donate to his opponents campaign

181

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #73  
Anonymous Says:

The Gov of Florida was not pushed around by people who have no idea of compassion and care.

Congragualtion Gov Crist for standing up to those who were greatly mistaken.

We Jews dont understand a very simple thing.

This murderer YMS caused horrific damage to a family.

Nay a word was mentioned of the young police women by all the gemachteh schnorishe "RABBIS" who rallied on hehalf of this murderer.

Shame on us for pandering on behalf of a convicted murderer.

We have done a huge chillul hashem for prostrating ourselves on behalf of this murderer.

We are that dumb and so we will be pointed out for retribution.When you live amongst the goyim in their land you learn as a Jew to lay low like a worm.

THis is not your country..You are a guest in America and you better learn your place.

What part of that do you dumb fools not understand?.

Do you think that having a menorah at the White House gives you the right to interfere in the criminal justice system of the country?

He, YMS got his just deserts...Now G-d will deal with him..

I don't know if you are jewish the way your talking you are missing ALL 3 signs baashanim rachamanim and goimlei chasodim

182

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #42  
Joe Says:

If you dont mind a little contrariness here:

I don't get all the furor. By any account what this person did was despicable and he would have been put to death by a Jewish Bes Din for the very same act (assuming eidim, etc...). There is no place that I know of where a bes din takes into account "nebach" factors to save a murderer from the death penalty.

While I realize that the American law and Halacha are very different, at the very least, where do we find in halacha that a rotzeach needs this level of rachmanus? I understand if people felt that they should prevent his death due to the mitigating factors, but that is a practical consideration, not an emotional one. But this level of outrage, fury, and raising this person to the level of a saint is very, very disturbing.

Our Torah is the mekor for the cultural acceptance of the death penalty for murder in Western society and we are willing to be supportive when the murderer is not one of ours, but somehow we scream and shout and get into a lather when there is punishment for a vicious killer who is one of ours.

Sorry folks. I dont care how many of you disagree with me, I am finding this really disturbing.

Very well said, Joe

183

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:19 PM Baal Teshuva Says:

The Chilul Hashem is that I am embarrassed to belong to a community treats a murderer as a victim. This whole rally to stop his execution has lessened my respect of the Torah World.

184

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #86  
Anonymous Says:

Cold until the end. I just can't take it.

der eibishter feert the velt

185

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:20 PM donate to Rubio Says:

The issue is not if Rubio would've done the same or not its the message all politicians should get that you can't ignore petitions of many thousands of ppl

So guys go ahead and donate for Rubio to spread the message against Crist Yemach shemoi!!!

186

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:20 PM Liberalism is a Disease!!! Says:

The victim's family said this would bring closure. Thats a bunch of BULL! It would give them the feeling of revenge. And what does that get them? Nada!

187

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:21 PM Ed Says:

Reply to #130  
Anonymous Says:

i feel so touched that he said shema before he died. :-(

I would be even more touched if he had thought of shema before he killed.

188

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Yeah. What a Baal Teshuvah. Prison cantene food is treif all the way. He will be going to the beis din shel maalah with the scent of treif on his breath.

189

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:24 PM Very Sad Says:

I dont understand why they didnt give him 60 days with good lawyers. I think the lesson is we woke up too late. BD"E. I was just informed he requested not to be buried in Florida. The Florida Cevrah Kadisha is sending him to NY on a private Jet where he will be buried by CSE with the help of Vitalone in Liberty NY as a Mais Mitzvah . This is a true chesed shel emes by all involved.

190

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #72  
Anonymous Says:

Charlie Crist is an achzir and a mechutzif to the highest degree! To ignore all the calls from organizations, religious leaders, the Pope.... Charlie vett zicher brennen in Gehenom!!
I am also putting my condo in Miami on the market - I wanna get out of that sick state!!

How much are you asking?

191

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Mishpat Says:

Justice has been served. He Murdered someone in cold blood. He got what he deserves.

Watch what you say.
What would you do if some one in your family was in this situation, just what you would do for your family in such a case so should be done to Martin Grossman.
Because all of Klal Yisrael is family.
Baruch Dayan Emes.
Shame On Gov Christ.

192

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:26 PM Centrist Says:

Bd"e. Though I feel it's sad that his remorse wasn't accepted, let"s not make him into a martyr. He tried to make good, failed, hopefully Hashem accepted his teshuvah and his neshoma will have an aliyah. But the people who say extreme things like hashem yinkom domo are repulsive. He wasn't killed by some medevial Anti Semite for being Jewish, he was killed as justice for murder! I think they made the wrong choice, but on another hand, Torah doesn't advocate a prison system but does advocate being chayev misa for numerous sins. I think Hashem was pulling the strings here. Let his neshoma have an aliyah, and the family of the officer/victim have closure. There are no winners here. Just one great tragedy.

193

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:27 PM Former Agudah Member Says:

The Agudah statement is such an embarrassment. This murderers does was warranted.

194

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:28 PM Sad event Says:

I feel very bad for this poor yosom who got killed today :( May hasham avenge his blood and bring his family comfort. Nisturim Darkei Hashem.

195

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #166  
The Death Penalty I Wrong Says:

On a general basis the Death Penalty does have a reasonable basis since it deters others from committing similar crimes. However, if it is proven that even one out of a million people that were killed were innocent than the entire capital punishment system is flawed. There is currently a case in Texas where a man was convicted and executed for burning down his house with his daughter in it. Turns out, the forensic analyst was wrong and the fire was the result of an electric heater and was not intentionally set. The supreme court is currently reviewing this case, and they may rule capital punishment as unconstitutional.

Why do continue to insist on propagating this lie? There is no evidence that the death penalty acts as a deterrent, and if if does, I'd like for you to furnish a shred of evidence to substantiate that claim. On average states without the death penalty have fewer murders per capita than those with the death penalty. Look it up.

196

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:30 PM MISHPAT Says:

Reply to #155  
Anonymous Says:

I totally agree. Is it sad that a fellow Jew was put to death, yes 100%. But come on everyone. He was a cold blooded murderer who killed to avoid going back to jail. If you would take the facts of the case and the situation and change the fact that his name is Grosman to another non Jewish sounding name.... everyone would agree that he should be put to death. If you are against the death penalty in general, than I hear you annoyance with the outcome. However, for anyone (Jew included) who is in favor of the death penalty, I do not understand the outrage and am a bit disturbed as well by it. What would everyone's reaction be if this case was during the times of the Jewish Beit Din, when there would have been no 25 years and then execution.... it would have been just simply the latter.

I totally agree wit your comment. I am happy to see that I am not the only "crazy" one here. This is an incredible example of group hypnosis. Pretty Scary.

197

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:30 PM Moshe Says:

May his Nasamah rest in peace in Gan Edan as he defiantly paid for his sins.

198

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:36 PM cool masmid Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

Just so you know that two of rthe governors opponents, one a republican and one a democrat actually sit on the clemency board and it was them that were actually dead against a stay of execution and that is what actually influenced the governor, because had they changed their mine the governor would have.

199

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:36 PM yidishe hartz Says:

You should be ashamed of yourself. You are a murderer worse than Mr. Grossman because you hide in back of a false legal shield. You know very well that "execution" is only to be the punishment if the criminal is beyond rehabilitation. In this case the criminal found God and religion and was rehabilitated. Therefore, the tables have now turned. Mr. Grossman will enter heaven as a victim of a cruel and ruthless governor who turned criminal into a holy martyr with a foolish stroke of a pen. You Mr. Governor, once the years that God gives you to live are over, your soul will burn in hell like any other murderer.

Remorse will not help. Poor Mr. Grossman is now dead but his soul rests in peace. Yours will not.

I do not write such harsh words easily. I am a religious law abiding man with a warm heart, a child of holocaust survivors. I thank God that I found a warm home in America. Today Mr. Governor you were unAmerican and went a bit too far.

200

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:41 PM einfal Says:

I guess No Salvation from Crist, despite Papal Intervention, doesn't sound good.
Boruch Dayan Emmes

201

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:41 PM Anonymous Says:

This was not justice, This was revenge. Stop Government murder.

202

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:42 PM Am Haaretz Himself Says:

Reply to #90  
Anonymous Says:

you are a boor and an am haaretz. if a beth din sent one person in 75 years to death, it was called a murderous bais din.
this situation would definitely NOT call for the death penalty. In his lucid moments he had a borderline IQ in the 70's. To compound this, in his wisdom, he dabbled in drugs. Any surprise that he did what he did. Not by me. Should he be on the street, a free man. Absolutely NOT. But the death penalty? We are approaching the attitude of the Germans of the early Hitler ysv years, where the non productive, the old, infirm, insane, were conveniently "disposed" of. Few people know that 100's of thousand of loyal Germans lost their beloved one to this tyranny. Whole nursing homes, asylums, were emptied out.
So, here in the good old USA, we let such people roam the street, until they deserve what they get... and the next step is.. Hashem yeracheim.

The Mishna in Makos says one execution in 7 or 70 years. 75 is not the number. Learn your Mishanyos, Chaver...

203

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:43 PM Father's Name Says:

Reply to #63  
Mishnayes Says:

Does anyone know his father's name so we all could learn Mishnayes for his Neshomah.

Michoel Yechiel ben AVRAHAM z"l
Better learn mishnayos and say Tehillim for his neshamah, or do a mitzvah for him...

204

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Crist did the right thing. This man murdered a woman in cold blood and now because he claims to be religious we get all worked up? He committed the ultimate crime and now he's paid the ultimate price. There's no anti-semitism afoot or anything else nefarious. He showed no rachmonous on that woman and the state in turn rightly showed no rachmonous on him.

205

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:46 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #60  
Askupeh Says:

About a half hour before 6, I called the governors office and after making my case for a last minute stay I told the secretary to tell Governor Crist that he has gotten name recognition among about three million Jews who never ever heard of him, and among them there are a few hundred thousand Republican Jews. If he issues a stay he will have positive name recognition to so many Jews who will be grateful to him for this.

That's where I stopped with my comment because I didn't want to jeopardize a last minute stay. Now I will tell you governor that you might have made a few red necks in Florida happy, but this will come to haunt you in any future presidential aspirations as your name is mud. You name will go down in Jewish history as a cruel man to whom politics came before decency and compassion.

Let me give the download on Governor Crist, currently he is involved in very hard campaign against Mark Rubio for the Republican nomination for US Senator, the reason why he didn’t even entertained the idea to either give clemency or just a stay of execution, is to appease the right wing in the Republican party, as the teabaggers are totally against him and they consider him RINO, the fact is that Crist did have support from the vast middle due to his middle of the ground approach, but after what he just did or better said didn’t do, when I have a few minutes I will stop by the DMV, and change my affiliation from democratic to republican just so I could vote in the upcoming primary and I would urge any Jew who lives in Florida to do the same, a person who is willing to cause the death of another human being, just so he is looking good for political purpose doesn’t deserve my vote.

As you know I am for the last few hours in the hospital, I don’t have the energy to even cry which might he helpful so I don’t bottle up the pain. Without a question I am totally drained, and I would like to challenge VIN to get a few rabbis to write about the death penalty in general so some of our brothers could understand the legal inequities that actually goes on in the way the death penalty is given. I am willing to grant theses death penalty the benefit of doubt; they just don’t know the real fact of our jurisprudence when it comes to the death penalty.

206

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #72  
Anonymous Says:

Charlie Crist is an achzir and a mechutzif to the highest degree! To ignore all the calls from organizations, religious leaders, the Pope.... Charlie vett zicher brennen in Gehenom!!
I am also putting my condo in Miami on the market - I wanna get out of that sick state!!

YEAH SURE- WHY DON'T YOU SELL IT AND GIVE THE MONEY TO THE PARK'S FAMILY. STOP THREATENING STUPIDITY!!

207

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Mishpat Says:

Justice has been served. He Murdered someone in cold blood. He got what he deserves.

that is so nice of you, such kind words

208

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:53 PM joel Says:

here is the "malchis shel chased" for you. hashem yinkom dumoi!!!

209

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #123  
Anonymous Says:

I don't like to speak badly of the dead, but in the interest of Emes, I have this question. If he was a Baal Tshuva, why did his last meal include a chicken sandwich from the prison kitchen? It surely was Treif.

Thank you, I thought the same thing.

210

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #167  
Tedek Tzedek Tirdoif Says:

Would you feel the same if the prisoners name was Jose Rodrguez, Tyrone Washington, Vito Jaquarino, or Ian McGilacutty? Perhaps it's time for all of you death penalty advocates to rexamine your position. The plethora of prosecutororial misconduct, tainted evidence, refusal to consider new DNA evidence, and suspect or coerced prosocution witnesses, have turned me from a staunch death penalty advocate to an equally staunch death penalty opponent. As for your political donations, candidates for poltiical office change their positions as often as you change your socks. If you're wondering where to donate your money, The Innocence Project would be a good place to start. They have mannaged to prove the innocence of many prisoners on death row

Yes. I recently signed the petition for Troy Davis on death row in Georgia. Seven out of the nine witnesses against him recanted their testimony, but the Georgia courts have not given him a new trial. There is also new exculpatory evidence as well. Now, having said that, I see it as good and proper when the Jewish people take the lead when one of their own is in danger. And your right about Project Innocence.

211

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #199  
yidishe hartz Says:

You should be ashamed of yourself. You are a murderer worse than Mr. Grossman because you hide in back of a false legal shield. You know very well that "execution" is only to be the punishment if the criminal is beyond rehabilitation. In this case the criminal found God and religion and was rehabilitated. Therefore, the tables have now turned. Mr. Grossman will enter heaven as a victim of a cruel and ruthless governor who turned criminal into a holy martyr with a foolish stroke of a pen. You Mr. Governor, once the years that God gives you to live are over, your soul will burn in hell like any other murderer.

Remorse will not help. Poor Mr. Grossman is now dead but his soul rests in peace. Yours will not.

I do not write such harsh words easily. I am a religious law abiding man with a warm heart, a child of holocaust survivors. I thank God that I found a warm home in America. Today Mr. Governor you were unAmerican and went a bit too far.

Where does any court say that execution is only punishment if a criminal is beyond rehabilitation?

In all these posts bemoaning the 'poor' Grossman, I have yet to hear a shred of interest expressed in the victim and her family.

212

 Feb 16, 2010 at 08:58 PM joel Says:

Reply to #196  
MISHPAT Says:

I totally agree wit your comment. I am happy to see that I am not the only "crazy" one here. This is an incredible example of group hypnosis. Pretty Scary.

are you nuts ?? do u know how many killers are serving life in prison ???!!! that's exactly what they asked 4 grossman life in prison

213

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:04 PM Nebach Says:

zan neshuma zol huben a aliyah!!!!

214

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:05 PM Loshon Hora Says:

Wow 195 comments.
BD"E
No Tefilah is wasted, the tefilos & petitions [hishtadlus] that the klall did on his behalf with guidence of Gedolei Yisroel, will be a zechus for his neshoma, and for others who need them.
Now how about doing something for some one you know, who doesn't have it easy.
Red A shiduch, phone someone who lives by themselves or take your children over for a visit. Be moichel someone, be nice to the people you see daily, help them give them moral support or charity. Remember charity starts at home, Shulchan Aruch also says so.

215

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Why him and not others who killed people on drugs?

216

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:05 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #205  
OMG Says:

Let me give the download on Governor Crist, currently he is involved in very hard campaign against Mark Rubio for the Republican nomination for US Senator, the reason why he didn’t even entertained the idea to either give clemency or just a stay of execution, is to appease the right wing in the Republican party, as the teabaggers are totally against him and they consider him RINO, the fact is that Crist did have support from the vast middle due to his middle of the ground approach, but after what he just did or better said didn’t do, when I have a few minutes I will stop by the DMV, and change my affiliation from democratic to republican just so I could vote in the upcoming primary and I would urge any Jew who lives in Florida to do the same, a person who is willing to cause the death of another human being, just so he is looking good for political purpose doesn’t deserve my vote.

As you know I am for the last few hours in the hospital, I don’t have the energy to even cry which might he helpful so I don’t bottle up the pain. Without a question I am totally drained, and I would like to challenge VIN to get a few rabbis to write about the death penalty in general so some of our brothers could understand the legal inequities that actually goes on in the way the death penalty is given. I am willing to grant theses death penalty the benefit of doubt; they just don’t know the real fact of our jurisprudence when it comes to the death penalty.

Sorry I should have written I am willing to grant theses death penalty “advocates” the benefit of doubt;

217

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Grossman killed one person, the Governor just killed his fifth. Who's the bigger killer?

218

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #210  
Anonymous Says:

Yes. I recently signed the petition for Troy Davis on death row in Georgia. Seven out of the nine witnesses against him recanted their testimony, but the Georgia courts have not given him a new trial. There is also new exculpatory evidence as well. Now, having said that, I see it as good and proper when the Jewish people take the lead when one of their own is in danger. And your right about Project Innocence.

Grossman was not innocent. He did not show true remorse either. He only said he regrets what was done that night. In this case, the death penalty was not only warranted, but it was long overdue.

219

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:15 PM Kentucky Guy Says:

Heck whatever Crist did or coulda/shudda is irrelvant this guy killed someone in cold blood no less - he got the death sentence period end of story - I fail to fully understand what the heck is with most of you here.

220

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Burich deiyen emes I can't stop crying for this poor baal tshuva that was so tragically and heartlessly put to death after so many years of regret and remorse that he totally changed to a god fearing and decent man as evidently by a record of 25 years that no one there had any misbehavior complain through all those years which means that he became a completely different person not a danger to society that it should be necessary to take his life rather life in prison would be appropriate. Most of all the heartlessness and cruelty and stubbornness from the florida governor is incomprehensible that he even refused to sit down with all the mainstream official jewish organizations that were begging him not to commute the death penalty but to push it off for just 60 days to have another clemency hearing to present all the evidence about his mental stage that was never presented he will be marked in the history of klal yisroel as a cold blooded soine yisroel and I hope his political career is gone and all jews in florida will deploy campaigning in behalf of his opponent and as well as sending in generous donations already right now for his opponents campaign

221

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Bais Din was the only group capable of making that decision. Who do all of you think you are to decide that he should have been put to death? How many times have people been in jail for decades and are unquestionably guilty only to be released because new evidence came to light? How can we be so sure as to what happened? A person might admitt to anything under enough pressure. A punishment as final as death should not be in the hands of flesh and blood. Lifetime imprisonment with no chance of getting out, sure.

222

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
hoizentrager Says:

Poor soul.. NOW he's in for a ride

what do you mean by that?

223

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:26 PM michali Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

Good Riddance!

Your attitude is goyish. I doubt that you are Jewish.

224

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:29 PM Anonymous Says:

burich dayan huemes this should be the last story like this in our history & the all jewish history

225

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:29 PM A. Nuran Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

This is just to remind us that we are in galus! He was killed because he was a jew! No other reason! OJ simpson killed his wife or gf and walked away scott free! Why cudn't they plead insanity?? Nebach nebach! Bd"e, that all we can say, we cannot understand the ways of hashem, but we have to know that everything hashem does is for the good even though we may not always see it, and everything is part of his master plan! Hashem should take revenge on his blood! And may we only share good news!!!

He was killed because he murdered a Peace Officer. The way justice operates in Florida it wouldn't matter if he were Jewish, Hindu or Catholic. If you murder a cop, you get the death penalty.

226

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:30 PM michali Says:

Reply to #209  
Anonymous Says:

Thank you, I thought the same thing.

So from what you are asking you couldn't care less about his execution if he was not 100% observant? Does it say in the Torah that we can only express ahavas yisroel to frum Jews?

227

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:41 PM Anonymous Says:

To Martin Grossman family : Hamokom Yenacham Eschem.......

228

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #123  
Anonymous Says:

I don't like to speak badly of the dead, but in the interest of Emes, I have this question. If he was a Baal Tshuva, why did his last meal include a chicken sandwich from the prison kitchen? It surely was Treif.

How do you know that. Don't jump to conclusions.

229

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:43 PM A. Nuran Says:

Reply to #122  
Anonymous Says:

Alcohol leads to as many murders, if not more, as illegal drugs and is as much a gateway to hard drugs as marijuana, if not more, so lets bring back prohibition.

We tried that. All it did was create large-scale organized crime on a scale this country had never seen. And when it ended, the criminal syndicates branched out into drugs like cannabis, heroin and cocaine which had been small-time problems until the illegal liquor money was behind them.

It didn't work then. It won't work now.

230

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #123  
Anonymous Says:

I don't like to speak badly of the dead, but in the interest of Emes, I have this question. If he was a Baal Tshuva, why did his last meal include a chicken sandwich from the prison kitchen? It surely was Treif.

MAybe he didn't keep all the mitzvos. Do you?

231

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Shame on you governor christ you are an enemy to the jewish people forever

232

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #145  
kosher? Says:

If he became frum, why did he choose a treif fried chicken sandwich for his last meal? He could have requested a kosher meal be brought in and they would have replied, or at least had something that wasn't meat. Maybe his frumkeit (davening three times a day) wasn't so thorough?

How do know it was treif? were you there? And even if it was? Maybe he wasn't 100% Frum, are you??

233

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:45 PM A. Nuran Says:

Reply to #128  
Anonymous Says:

To the absurd bums out there, who have rachmanus on a goy:

Listen up, it is stated in our holy sforim that the way one judges his fellow jew, that same way he himself is judged.

So be careful..

And you 42

Yes there is a consept of rachmanos in a Beis Din. If there is just a minor Zchus even if was brought by the convict himself, it is reconsiderd.

So you have no rachmones, no compassion for the innocent woman who was murdered? Her death doesn't matter because she was a goy?

Shame on you. A thousand times shame on you. She was as much a daughter of Adam and Chava as your wife, your mother or your daughter.

234

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
Anonymous Says:

Baruch dayan emes. Very sad.
And if hashem sent his death through the governor of florida, than he can't be a very good person. Bec hashem sends bad through bad pple.
Shame on you governor.

hashem doesnt send bad . everything is good

235

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:47 PM Anonymous Says:

This is a great tragedy of a young man who was in a bad situation, went down a terrible wrong path,and murdered, and was executed for it.
But I think it is misplaced to be directing anger at Gov. Crist. You can't expect him to see it your way , for many reasons which I won't go into now.
I will say that B'H, Grossman was zoche to die with teshuva, and Kiddush Hashem.

I would ask, and hope, that instead of creating and directing fury and hate, we should feel the pain, and it should leave us more aware of another's needs; more kind , caring, and ready, to help,and feel with, your brother, your neighbor and your fellow man.

236

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:48 PM Anonymous Says:

I hope the same love, anger, tears, and sorrow that 200 of you expressed for the convicted murderer will now also take a moment to remember and care for the family of the victim and the victim herself.

Gorssman is not a minority in expressing his regrets and saying prayers at the last minute. There are guys who put on a good expose of theology, poetry and sound like they are saints before they go. If our judges would do their jobs based on drama, feelings, and emotions then most of our rapists, burglars, and murderers would walk the streets. Like all other punishments this is a classic reminder that actions bare consequences and sometimes they are very serious.
He maybe sincerely remorseful, but you can't murder someone and later say "I'm really sorry and God I love you." We will all be held accountable for our behaviors and "sorry" will not save us.

237

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:49 PM gigul Says:

May those who caused his death burn in the worst hell known to mankind.

May the good Lord look down at his death and avenge his soul.

Its true that he commited a heniuos crime, however there have been many people who perpetuated murder and only received a sentence, but he - tripping on drugs - gets killed.

May Governer Christ Yimach Shimo lose his next bid for election and weep as he views his life blow up in front of his own eyes

238

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:51 PM A. Nuran Says:

Reply to #175  
Anonymous Says:

Can't give Grossman SIXTY days for an appeal? I'm gonna give $60 to Rubio now. That's all.

He had twenty five years of reviews and appeals. He had far, far more chances than people who were executed for far, far less.

239

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:51 PM Moshiach now! Says:

Reply to #91  
Anonymous Says:

Let us all protest against legal drugs. Mexican Drug Gangs are selling $10 baggies of heroin in our neighborhoods. We must fight them with all of our might. They want to murder our children and turn them into sick murderers, R"L. We must fight the Democrat Politicians who support legal drugs in NY and NJ. Schumer is a menuval who supports needle exchange and legal drugs. We must vote all these sick Democrats out ASAP -- murderers all of them.

BD"E. For us who can't make a difference at the Florida elections, let us make it where it hurts mo$t and choose a different location for our next vacation until Cris is out.

240

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #233  
A. Nuran Says:

So you have no rachmones, no compassion for the innocent woman who was murdered? Her death doesn't matter because she was a goy?

Shame on you. A thousand times shame on you. She was as much a daughter of Adam and Chava as your wife, your mother or your daughter.

Rachmonis on the victim should not blur justice.

241

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

he most probably davened mincha and said al cheth before he was killed. oy, it hurts, let his neshama have an aliyah.

I don't believe his fried chicken sandwich and banana cream cookies from the prison canteen were kosher. In the times of bais din if someone was mechuyav misa no matter if he did teshuva afterwards the sentence remained. He killed someone in cold blood and i'm not sure where all the "activists" were for the last 25 years! Why did they wake up in 2010? They should have appealed this from 1984 onwards. If you believe he shouldn't have been killed, SHAME ON YOU!

242

 Feb 16, 2010 at 09:59 PM and we cried Says:

baruch dayan haemes Let's us reflect: Maybe in martins zechus, let us each just find one of these zeise conservative Barmitzvah boy in our neighborhood and prevent this and send them shaloch manos and learn with him and send him to camp oorah . we could really change the world .

243

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:05 PM Joe Says:

Some insane comments from this list:

"todays murder by Charlie Crist must be avenged."

"Kudsha Brich Hu wanted Martin next to HIM"

Lets clarify something. This man MURDERED a woman in cold blood. He was a ROTZEYACH. Something that even a tinok shenishbah, or a complete Goy is held liable for.

That people are making this murderer into some sort of saint is despicable and revolting.

As far as what I said about Bes Din. I will repeat. Bes Din does not take into account "nebach" when deciding whether someone get Misa. All of this "nebach he was on drugs or had no father" is relevant up until the point that he killed someone. Bes Din (and therefore our Torah) does not approve of mercy for killers. I understand that the community wished that his sentence be reduced due to the mitigating circumstances, but when people start making this ROTZAYACH into a saint and calling Cristi some kind of murderer I am nauseated.

One last gem from above:
"He should be on the street a free man"

Yeah, thats a great idea. Not only not punish him, lets let him run free after killing.

Sick sick sick.

244

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:08 PM Anonymous Says:

We should work to abolish the death penalty for all - jew or nonjew

246

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:10 PM Myopinion Says:

I am sorry but thefact was he killed her. And although I feel bad that he made bad choices in his life to lead up to the murder. He is a murderer. And especially because he murdered a government worker it is not uncommon for that to even get a more serious punishment. And I don not think it was wrong for the government to execute him. Just because he was Jewish doesn't make it ok to KILL. And he was a MURDERER

247

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

he most probably davened mincha and said al cheth before he was killed. oy, it hurts, let his neshama have an aliyah.

He ate a chicken sandwich from the prison canteen before he died.

248

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:22 PM Usher Says:

Boruch Dayan Emes. Lets look at it this way. Grossman was a Baal Thsuva and a part of cleaning his past was being killed. But I would not jump to accuse Governor Crist the Goy, after all, President Bush when he was Governor also had his state execute people, and yes, there was even one Yid between them. The point here is another one. If Katz was so interested and dedicated to Grossman, why didn't he do anything before Crist signed the executive order to have him killed? Why didn't Katz run to Agudas Yisroel who know nothing of his till a few weeks ago? Why didn't Rabbi Katz of Aleph hit tha press with an outcry that a Jew was going to be murdered? We can't blame the Got Crist, but should blame thr Jew Katz. I wouldn't want to be Katz tonight or any night afterwards. Could Rabbi Katz say that his hands are clean from Grossman's blood? Staying with him to the last moment is noble, but maybe this was his guilt for not doing anything before it came down to the last few weeks.

249

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #226  
michali Says:

So from what you are asking you couldn't care less about his execution if he was not 100% observant? Does it say in the Torah that we can only express ahavas yisroel to frum Jews?

yes - I heard once from Rav Avigdor Miller, zt"l, personally the words of Chazal - "V'ahavta l'reiachah kmocha" - "kmocha b'Torah u'Mitzvos". We are not racists who just love someone for being born a certain way - you have to earn the title of "fellow Jew". However, the mitzvos he did probably are enough to be k'mocha b'Torah u'Mitzvos - but the chiyuv of ahavas Yisrael is only to a servant of Hashem.

250

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Ok I shouldent be posting this couse it's sad sad sad but his last meal as a Baal teshuvah and he dident order anything special but took a triefeh chicken sandwich from the kantina somthing is wrong and this was with his rabbi at his side all day I don't know but somthing about the teshuvah he allegedly did dosent seem to shtim I do feel bad for him and think it was wrong but in the futere letx not mix fake facts to stir emotion to help

251

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:27 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

I certainly understand your feelings, but keep the following in mind:

1. The governor followed the law, not his personal feelings. That, whether we like it or not, is his job.
2. The jury convicted him and sentenced him, not the governor.
3. Countless appeals have been made in the past and countless judges of turned them down as there was no legal basis for the appeals.
4. 4 previous governors, both Democrat and Republican upheld the jury decision.

The law is the law, even when we passionately disagree with it. Even while we mourn for one of our own, it is the people of the state of FL who decided this man's fate. Florida is very much a "pro death penalty" state. It has overwhelming support. As for supporting Crist's opponent, don't bother. Marco Rubio who is challenging Crist as governor supported this decision and is an even more militant supporter of the death penalty, so be careful what you wish for.

252

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:27 PM Chabadnik Says:

BDE, for sure. But the guy killed, and this is the punishment! What do we expect? That just because it's a Jewish criminal a non-Jewish Governor in a non-Jewish state in a non-Jewish country will pardon him? Why should they? There is one law for everyone, people. I'm very disturbed by what I perceive as the egocentricity of the response to the response to the execution. If Chabad is anti capital punishment, come out and say so. But you can't expect (but you can hope for) exceptions just because it's personal.

Further, in all this tumult and in all the comments on Jewish blogosphere, where is the sympathy for the family of the victim?? She was killed brutally and here we are ignoring the fact that HER blood calls for justice! What is she, disposable?

Our Torah calls for goyim to make courts. And our Torah tells us justice must be blind. And our Torah tells us that teshuva and regret don't cancel capital punishment.

How utterly depressing!

253

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:32 PM Atoz Says:

Whether or not this man deserved to be executed will be debated for some time. As a non American what I can't understand why did it take 24 years to get to this stage? After 24 years one would have thought a lifetime in jail would have been the appropriate penalty. It just seems to be a long time from being found guilty to enforcing the penalty. In no way am I condoning what this man had done.

The execution just seems to be cruel and harsh after 24 years.

254

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:33 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

BDE

As tragic as this is, please keep in mind that hatred toward the Governor is very misplaced. Charlie Crist is a moderate who has been VERY good to the Jewish communities in FL. His support has helped us grow our communities to be very strong. He did not sentence this man to death. The people of the state of FL did. Governor Crist followed the law as is his job to do.

255

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Askan and Fundraiser Says:

Baruch Dayan Ha'emes.

Now I will donate money to everyone's campaign who is running against the Governor of Flordia and I urge everyone else to do the same.

If you kill one of our own, you will lose our votes, and you will lose our money - in fact we will give money to your opponent.

I really wonder if your comments would be the same if it was your sister or mother that this person murdered? Because he is Jewish he should not receive punishment? Please remember this man killed a police officer in cold blood, he had no remorse or heitation at the time he committed th crime.

256

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Why is the plain man's blood more cheap than a public officer's. Talk about blue blood.

257

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #42  
Joe Says:

If you dont mind a little contrariness here:

I don't get all the furor. By any account what this person did was despicable and he would have been put to death by a Jewish Bes Din for the very same act (assuming eidim, etc...). There is no place that I know of where a bes din takes into account "nebach" factors to save a murderer from the death penalty.

While I realize that the American law and Halacha are very different, at the very least, where do we find in halacha that a rotzeach needs this level of rachmanus? I understand if people felt that they should prevent his death due to the mitigating factors, but that is a practical consideration, not an emotional one. But this level of outrage, fury, and raising this person to the level of a saint is very, very disturbing.

Our Torah is the mekor for the cultural acceptance of the death penalty for murder in Western society and we are willing to be supportive when the murderer is not one of ours, but somehow we scream and shout and get into a lather when there is punishment for a vicious killer who is one of ours.

Sorry folks. I dont care how many of you disagree with me, I am finding this really disturbing.

And could you tell me how many time some one got killed by bes din, do you know what the gamoro says on a bes din that killed some one?

258

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:45 PM MOSHE Says:

Reply to #233  
A. Nuran Says:

So you have no rachmones, no compassion for the innocent woman who was murdered? Her death doesn't matter because she was a goy?

Shame on you. A thousand times shame on you. She was as much a daughter of Adam and Chava as your wife, your mother or your daughter.

No! shame on you!! if grossmans death would result in bringing that lady back to live you may have a point, but why do plain revenge ??

261

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #248  
Usher Says:

Boruch Dayan Emes. Lets look at it this way. Grossman was a Baal Thsuva and a part of cleaning his past was being killed. But I would not jump to accuse Governor Crist the Goy, after all, President Bush when he was Governor also had his state execute people, and yes, there was even one Yid between them. The point here is another one. If Katz was so interested and dedicated to Grossman, why didn't he do anything before Crist signed the executive order to have him killed? Why didn't Katz run to Agudas Yisroel who know nothing of his till a few weeks ago? Why didn't Rabbi Katz of Aleph hit tha press with an outcry that a Jew was going to be murdered? We can't blame the Got Crist, but should blame thr Jew Katz. I wouldn't want to be Katz tonight or any night afterwards. Could Rabbi Katz say that his hands are clean from Grossman's blood? Staying with him to the last moment is noble, but maybe this was his guilt for not doing anything before it came down to the last few weeks.

Please use the correct terminology, a Jew was not murdred, he was lawfully executed according toi the laws of the state of Florida. What he did to Officer Park was MURDER. As much as you would like to have the world beleive that Mr. Grossman was not deserving of the death penelty, he was, his religon plays not part in whether he committed the crime or the dispensation of punishment for doing it. When are we as Yidden going to learn that if we committ a crime, be it violent or white collar we are not absolved of the law and we can not be held to a different standard because we are Jewish.

262

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:48 PM lmos Says:

Reply to #42  
Joe Says:

If you dont mind a little contrariness here:

I don't get all the furor. By any account what this person did was despicable and he would have been put to death by a Jewish Bes Din for the very same act (assuming eidim, etc...). There is no place that I know of where a bes din takes into account "nebach" factors to save a murderer from the death penalty.

While I realize that the American law and Halacha are very different, at the very least, where do we find in halacha that a rotzeach needs this level of rachmanus? I understand if people felt that they should prevent his death due to the mitigating factors, but that is a practical consideration, not an emotional one. But this level of outrage, fury, and raising this person to the level of a saint is very, very disturbing.

Our Torah is the mekor for the cultural acceptance of the death penalty for murder in Western society and we are willing to be supportive when the murderer is not one of ours, but somehow we scream and shout and get into a lather when there is punishment for a vicious killer who is one of ours.

Sorry folks. I dont care how many of you disagree with me, I am finding this really disturbing.

you are wrong!
the torah only incurs capital punishment on someone who was WARNED, meaning that he did it intentionally, with a plan to kill. This was not the case with martin... it was not premeditated.

263

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:50 PM Halachically speaking Says:

Halacha-wise, he was NOT chayav misa. Ask your LOR. Complicated case, with issues involving dina d'malchusa dina, mipnai eivah, etc, but the bottom line is that he was not even close to bein chayav misa for what he did as a teenager during a drugged out state. That is probably why the Gedolei Poskim asked AIA to do what they could. That is also why it is appropriate to say "Hashem Inkom Damo." When Mashiach comes, or maybe sooner, our kehillah will witness much in the way of HID.

264

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #239  
Moshiach now! Says:

BD"E. For us who can't make a difference at the Florida elections, let us make it where it hurts mo$t and choose a different location for our next vacation until Cris is out.

I agree, please do not come to Florida, we do not want your type in our state. Convicted murders of Law Enforcement Officers deserve the sentence received at a trial, whether they are Jews or Goyim. I am revolted that you show not the least bit of remorse for the family of this murdered officer.

267

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #238  
A. Nuran Says:

He had twenty five years of reviews and appeals. He had far, far more chances than people who were executed for far, far less.

He also had far more chances than he gave the officer he murdered.

268

 Feb 16, 2010 at 10:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #237  
gigul Says:

May those who caused his death burn in the worst hell known to mankind.

May the good Lord look down at his death and avenge his soul.

Its true that he commited a heniuos crime, however there have been many people who perpetuated murder and only received a sentence, but he - tripping on drugs - gets killed.

May Governer Christ Yimach Shimo lose his next bid for election and weep as he views his life blow up in front of his own eyes

He will burn in hell for the crime he committed and for the greif he caused the famility of his victim, I truly hope that you never experience that kind of loss, however if you did I wonder if your comments would be the same.

269

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #232  
Anonymous Says:

How do know it was treif? were you there? And even if it was? Maybe he wasn't 100% Frum, are you??

Don't belittle a valid point, and don't personally attack someone.

"He ordered from the prison cantina – a fried chicken sandwich"
It's NOT Ottisvile. I too do not be;ieve he was a "baal Teshuva" as we understand it. Most likely the local lubavitch prison outreach person came across a jewish prisoner and gave him teffilin to wrap. Check it out.

Btw, there is no dan lekaf zechus here - he is a murderer by his own admission - a rasha you are dan lekaf CHOV unless you know otherwise!

270

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:11 PM Shlomo Says:

Even though he wasn't killed by a Beis Din his execution should atone for the avairos which he admitted to in killing this women. In a twisted way he was Zocheh to be punished in Olem Hazeh rather than what may await in Olam Habo.
I think this whole situation is sad and I regret that it has come to this BD'E

271

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:14 PM david lee Says:

he deserved it he shouldve died years ago hes a douche

272

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:17 PM Isaac Says:

It's a terrible tragedy that a Jew would commit such a terrible crime as to merit capital punishment.

273

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:22 PM czw Says:

on one hand, charlie crist showed that he can stand pressure. on the contrary, he wasn't reasonable by not allowing a delay. let's show this narrow-minded governor, that even he can't win an election while enraging so much people. let's do everything in our power to stop such kind of politicians from possessing power.

274

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #253  
Atoz Says:

Whether or not this man deserved to be executed will be debated for some time. As a non American what I can't understand why did it take 24 years to get to this stage? After 24 years one would have thought a lifetime in jail would have been the appropriate penalty. It just seems to be a long time from being found guilty to enforcing the penalty. In no way am I condoning what this man had done.

The execution just seems to be cruel and harsh after 24 years.

Because we have a relatively lengthy appeal process in this country, as part of due process, especially in the case of

I believe in this case he did in fact use all of his appeals, so things dragged on for a long time.

275

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:32 PM Pashuteh Yid Says:

Reply to #102  
Anonymous Says:

Stop contradicting yourself. If murder is never acceptable unless in the case of self-defense, how do you condone the murder of Grossman by the state, is that "self-defense"? I think not.

According to you, no punishment is ever possible. If we put in jail, some will say the State kidnaps people and locks them up. If we fine people, they will say, the State steals peoples money. The Torah allows for punishment, and even capital punishment. If a proper trial and due process is carried out, then that is not murder.

As far as his repentance is concerned, while I am sure it is sincere, however, that is only for G-d to decide. In a Beis Din Shel Matah, tshuvah cannot change a decree, only in a Beis Din Shel Maalah

276

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #199  
yidishe hartz Says:

You should be ashamed of yourself. You are a murderer worse than Mr. Grossman because you hide in back of a false legal shield. You know very well that "execution" is only to be the punishment if the criminal is beyond rehabilitation. In this case the criminal found God and religion and was rehabilitated. Therefore, the tables have now turned. Mr. Grossman will enter heaven as a victim of a cruel and ruthless governor who turned criminal into a holy martyr with a foolish stroke of a pen. You Mr. Governor, once the years that God gives you to live are over, your soul will burn in hell like any other murderer.

Remorse will not help. Poor Mr. Grossman is now dead but his soul rests in peace. Yours will not.

I do not write such harsh words easily. I am a religious law abiding man with a warm heart, a child of holocaust survivors. I thank God that I found a warm home in America. Today Mr. Governor you were unAmerican and went a bit too far.

Remorse will not help. Poor Mr. Grossman is now dead.

You're an idiot. Why won't remorse help? In your eyes, remorse worked for Mr. Grossman. Perhaps Governor Crist will find religion as well and will therefore have this "murder" wiped clean.

Moron.

277

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:36 PM yaakov Says:

Baruch Dayan Emes :(

278

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:38 PM Non Parochial Says:

Reply to #42  
Joe Says:

If you dont mind a little contrariness here:

I don't get all the furor. By any account what this person did was despicable and he would have been put to death by a Jewish Bes Din for the very same act (assuming eidim, etc...). There is no place that I know of where a bes din takes into account "nebach" factors to save a murderer from the death penalty.

While I realize that the American law and Halacha are very different, at the very least, where do we find in halacha that a rotzeach needs this level of rachmanus? I understand if people felt that they should prevent his death due to the mitigating factors, but that is a practical consideration, not an emotional one. But this level of outrage, fury, and raising this person to the level of a saint is very, very disturbing.

Our Torah is the mekor for the cultural acceptance of the death penalty for murder in Western society and we are willing to be supportive when the murderer is not one of ours, but somehow we scream and shout and get into a lather when there is punishment for a vicious killer who is one of ours.

Sorry folks. I dont care how many of you disagree with me, I am finding this really disturbing.

I spoke to a few Rosh Yeshivos and they are all disturbed by the lack of Halachik support for the Agudah's stance on this issue. In addition it is the height of hypocrisy to be pro capital punishment for the general populace and yell murder when its one of your own.

279

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:39 PM joe shmoe Says:

Reply to #275  
Pashuteh Yid Says:

According to you, no punishment is ever possible. If we put in jail, some will say the State kidnaps people and locks them up. If we fine people, they will say, the State steals peoples money. The Torah allows for punishment, and even capital punishment. If a proper trial and due process is carried out, then that is not murder.

As far as his repentance is concerned, while I am sure it is sincere, however, that is only for G-d to decide. In a Beis Din Shel Matah, tshuvah cannot change a decree, only in a Beis Din Shel Maalah

NOT TRUE! The torah allows for capital punishments, only ONLY if there were 2 witnesses PLUS A HASRO'EH! which means he had to be forwarned, PLUS there has to be no doubt that he's 1,000,000 percent guilty. hearing 50,000 plus phone calls, emails, faxes, petitions, and not giving him one more chance! ONE! means that mr. crist is guilty of murder MORE THAN RABBI GROSSMAN! May hashem avenge his blood!

280

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:40 PM Bugsy Siegel Says:

BD"E.
Not to mitigate the death or the crime, but I find something interesting.
Everyone is against the death penalty when it comes to a Yid, but what about when it comes to a goy?
I myself believe the death penalty is only reserved for the worst of crimes, and I believe it is used too often and usually affects the poor disproportionately.
As for killing officers, I believe that deserves the death penalty. It would be difficult for me to make a decision in this case. However, I believe that if it was a goy, he would deserve the death penalty. So too, I would say the yid, Grossman deserves the death penalty.
I certainly hope that people on this forum will be more careful of calling for the death penalty, as it affects the poor disproportionately as they cannot afford a good defense, and the evidence may be wrong, as DNA evidence today is acquitting people. And for various other reasons, I hope people will be more sensitive to the death penalty issue.
BD"E

281

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:46 PM aten ra Says:

These bleeding hearts get me.Were any hearts bleeding for the
victim and her family.Whats the big deal of him being Jewish?
Is this supposed to get him special favor?Shame on the Vatican
for putting it's nose where it doesn't belong.[and I'm Catholic
at that].Why did it take 26 years to carry out the sentence?

WELL DONE FLORIDA.GOV. CRIST,YOU HAVE MY VOTE

282

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:46 PM aitan weinberg Says:

well according to david lee he should have died i disagree completely

283

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:47 PM Kogan Says:

Reply to #273  
czw Says:

on one hand, charlie crist showed that he can stand pressure. on the contrary, he wasn't reasonable by not allowing a delay. let's show this narrow-minded governor, that even he can't win an election while enraging so much people. let's do everything in our power to stop such kind of politicians from possessing power.

"on one hand, charlie crist showed that he can stand pressure. on the contrary, he wasn't reasonable by not allowing a delay. let's show this narrow-minded governor, that even he can't win an election while enraging so much people. let's do everything in our power to stop such kind of politicians from possessing power."

I agree 100% Governor should suffer consequences for ignoring tens of thousands of petitioners. Least he could do is to grant 60 days stay of execution. This would allow hit to "save his face" and to respect so many people, who unlike african americans don' come out protesting every 2 weeks.

284

 Feb 16, 2010 at 11:58 PM Pashuteh Yid Says:

Reply to #279  
joe shmoe Says:

NOT TRUE! The torah allows for capital punishments, only ONLY if there were 2 witnesses PLUS A HASRO'EH! which means he had to be forwarned, PLUS there has to be no doubt that he's 1,000,000 percent guilty. hearing 50,000 plus phone calls, emails, faxes, petitions, and not giving him one more chance! ONE! means that mr. crist is guilty of murder MORE THAN RABBI GROSSMAN! May hashem avenge his blood!

These requirements are only for a beis din. For a non-Jewish court, who says they need these? The sheva mitzvos include setting up courts, and they need only be fair and equitable. Do you think they are required to operate like a bes din? But secondly, there was at least one witness here, and as far as hasraah, everybody knows not to kill. Chaver eino tzarich hasraah. A learned person doesn't need a warning, since he already knows the punishment. We can assume everybody knows that murder is a serious crime.

285

 Feb 17, 2010 at 12:15 AM musicluver Says:

Reply to #252  
Chabadnik Says:

BDE, for sure. But the guy killed, and this is the punishment! What do we expect? That just because it's a Jewish criminal a non-Jewish Governor in a non-Jewish state in a non-Jewish country will pardon him? Why should they? There is one law for everyone, people. I'm very disturbed by what I perceive as the egocentricity of the response to the response to the execution. If Chabad is anti capital punishment, come out and say so. But you can't expect (but you can hope for) exceptions just because it's personal.

Further, in all this tumult and in all the comments on Jewish blogosphere, where is the sympathy for the family of the victim?? She was killed brutally and here we are ignoring the fact that HER blood calls for justice! What is she, disposable?

Our Torah calls for goyim to make courts. And our Torah tells us justice must be blind. And our Torah tells us that teshuva and regret don't cancel capital punishment.

How utterly depressing!

The guy had an IQ of 77, which means he was BORDERLINE mentally retarded. He was NOT a Bar Da'as!! If I'm not mistaken, he was the FIRST man in Florida to be on death row!

286

 Feb 17, 2010 at 12:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Who from all you frum male bloggers are willing to undertake to say kaddish for his neshoma for 11 months?

287

 Feb 17, 2010 at 12:28 AM ST Says:

Reply to #67  
Anonymous Says:

The family of the ones he murdered has justice-Im sure you wouldnt be saying this if it was your daughter that he murdered

First of all, I meant yiden. And pls stop with this ifs and buts... IF Grossman was your son???... IF he was your nephew. And to all of you cursing Grossman: Hashem treats a human Mida K'neged Mida.. If you have mercy and try to help a fellow jew (no matter right or wrong), G-D will have mercy on you.

288

 Feb 17, 2010 at 12:28 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #248  
Usher Says:

Boruch Dayan Emes. Lets look at it this way. Grossman was a Baal Thsuva and a part of cleaning his past was being killed. But I would not jump to accuse Governor Crist the Goy, after all, President Bush when he was Governor also had his state execute people, and yes, there was even one Yid between them. The point here is another one. If Katz was so interested and dedicated to Grossman, why didn't he do anything before Crist signed the executive order to have him killed? Why didn't Katz run to Agudas Yisroel who know nothing of his till a few weeks ago? Why didn't Rabbi Katz of Aleph hit tha press with an outcry that a Jew was going to be murdered? We can't blame the Got Crist, but should blame thr Jew Katz. I wouldn't want to be Katz tonight or any night afterwards. Could Rabbi Katz say that his hands are clean from Grossman's blood? Staying with him to the last moment is noble, but maybe this was his guilt for not doing anything before it came down to the last few weeks.

I agree with this comment. By the time we found out about it and made some noise it was much to late to fight it.

289

 Feb 17, 2010 at 12:48 AM WATCH YOUR BACK!!! WATCH OUT!!! DONT JUDGE LEST YOU BE JUDGED!! Says:

Reply to #4  
hoizentrager Says:

Poor soul.. NOW he's in for a ride

WHEN ONE JUDGES ANOTHER, ... HE'S ACTUALLY JUDGING HIMSELF!!!
-ZOHAR, & SIFREI MUSSAR.



EXPLANATION:
BethDin in Heaven may Not judge a human on earth
(bec one may not judge another w/o walking in their shoes! therefore) the heavenly court has YOU yorself be the judge!
HOW
by showing YOU an equivalent case in "another" to follow the same "fare-minded" judgement you past on "another"

for better or worse R"L


you must start learning some pnimiyus hatorah! Tanya 30 & 32 = good start!

290

 Feb 17, 2010 at 12:51 AM Mr. Green Says:

Reply to #107  
Jew in South Florida Says:

I just made an $18 (chai) contribution to Rubio for senate against charlie. here is the donation link: https://www.marcorubio.com/donate/

please everyone donate money to him

Boy are you cheap, $18. Why not $440 (meht)? Now you feel holy, huh? This web site is full of hypocrites. If his name was Charlie McCarthy you wouldn't blink. And for just $18 you get a high. Pathetic.

291

 Feb 17, 2010 at 12:56 AM hershel Says:

(: BDE

292

 Feb 17, 2010 at 01:11 AM Anonymous Says:

isnt it amazing that the all the guys on death row always seem to find G-d only after they murder someone and are sentenced to death.

293

 Feb 17, 2010 at 01:13 AM YitzchokAizik Says:

I can't believe that the benevolent and holy Government of the United States (as opposed to the evil Zionist one) allowed a fellow jew to be put to death.

294

 Feb 17, 2010 at 01:16 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #233  
A. Nuran Says:

So you have no rachmones, no compassion for the innocent woman who was murdered? Her death doesn't matter because she was a goy?

Shame on you. A thousand times shame on you. She was as much a daughter of Adam and Chava as your wife, your mother or your daughter.

A. Nuran: Get yourself to a Torah yeshiva fast! You have much to learn.

295

 Feb 17, 2010 at 01:18 AM Tippish Says:

Reply to #49  
Anonymous Says:

I wonder how sympathetic the comments would be if the religions of murderer and victim were reversed.

as a matter of fact, there are many many murderers, non jews, who murdered jews, some of them were pre meditated and pre calculated, some of them were murdered just because they were jews, but these murderers are free today, and havent even served close to the time that martin grossman did, prior to being murdered in revenge...

296

 Feb 17, 2010 at 01:22 AM Anonymous Says:

instead of trying to intercede on mr grossmans behalf after the murders he commited and before the exectution, maybe, all of you charedi jews who are screaming about his execution should look to being nice to the non religious jews out there and try to be a mensch to them and do outreach about how wonderful judaism is and try to save these lost jewish neshamas from getting into trouble in the first place. how many of you would let your kids play or talk to someone like grossman when he was 13, 15 or 17. would you ever invite him into your homes and show him how a jew is suppose to behave. i dont think so. you would not do it and you would not even speak to him or say helllo if you passed him on the street on shabbos becuase he wasnt wearing a kepah and even if he did, if he wastn dressed in a yeshivish uniform you wiould have looked down upon him. how many times do reform and conservative jews complain about being ignored or insulted by religiuos jews. maybe if we would be open and friendly to the non dati jews and treat them with respect people like martin might not end up the way he did, or they might come to be interested in daas hatorah, instead you treat them like crap

297

 Feb 17, 2010 at 01:35 AM thepointis Says:

I believe the fact that Charlie Crist HR"Y did not suspend the death penalty is not so much of an issue than the fact that he totally ignored us and our community representatives. He didn't even allow us to meet him or issue a valid response. This is pure arrogance and disrespect that cannot be forgiven.

298

 Feb 17, 2010 at 02:15 AM A E ANDERSON Says:

What a world! The goyim don't even listen to their own pope!

299

 Feb 17, 2010 at 02:56 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Mishpat Says:

Justice has been served. He Murdered someone in cold blood. He got what he deserves.

you are next

300

 Feb 17, 2010 at 03:04 AM rachamim Says:

What if Grossman had be the killer of Florida Patrol Officer Asher Rosinsky, Hy"d,
killed on 5/1/97? Would we still have fought to stop Grossman's execution?

301

 Feb 17, 2010 at 03:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Mishpat Says:

Justice has been served. He Murdered someone in cold blood. He got what he deserves.

You are one ANTI SEMITE. Only G-D will take care of your soul. in memory, we shall never forget, donate money to get this governor out of office. He has no heart or common sense. Blood thirsty GOVERNER, Hopefully EX very soon.

302

 Feb 17, 2010 at 03:22 AM A Jew Says:

Firstly, I would like to remind posters that there is a cherem kadmonim against speaking ill against the deceased, not that it would stop anyone, but it shows how Jewishly knowledgable (or not) some posters are. To those that rejoice or gleefully recieved the news of Grossman's death, Rabbi Akiva said "Viahavta lirayacha komocho, zeh klal gadol batorah" Niether he, nor other commentators on the mitzvah listed exclusions for people that once committed a murder. The mitzvah of Ahavas Yisroel applies to those that it is difficult to love as much as those with a wonderful disposition and perhaps even moreso.
Grossman it seems had some zchus because he died with vidu and shma yisrael on lips, something that many of us may aspire to, but few of us will actually ever achieve because we don't know when our moment of death will be as Grossman did.
I do not believe threatening to oust Governor Crist has any benefit. The man felt he acted as required by law and the death warrant lists the numerous appeals that were filed by Grossman and denied.
Blaming Rabbi Katz is beyond absurd.
After the fact, the only thing we can do is learn mishnayos L"N. Hashem remains the only true judge. BDE

303

 Feb 17, 2010 at 03:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #42  
Joe Says:

If you dont mind a little contrariness here:

I don't get all the furor. By any account what this person did was despicable and he would have been put to death by a Jewish Bes Din for the very same act (assuming eidim, etc...). There is no place that I know of where a bes din takes into account "nebach" factors to save a murderer from the death penalty.

While I realize that the American law and Halacha are very different, at the very least, where do we find in halacha that a rotzeach needs this level of rachmanus? I understand if people felt that they should prevent his death due to the mitigating factors, but that is a practical consideration, not an emotional one. But this level of outrage, fury, and raising this person to the level of a saint is very, very disturbing.

Our Torah is the mekor for the cultural acceptance of the death penalty for murder in Western society and we are willing to be supportive when the murderer is not one of ours, but somehow we scream and shout and get into a lather when there is punishment for a vicious killer who is one of ours.

Sorry folks. I dont care how many of you disagree with me, I am finding this really disturbing.

Think better even when Bais Din is dan to kill a rotzeach it's also out of rachmunus that it should be a kaporah and tikun for is neshoma. But in this case a shufui bedaato to kill him is eevus hadin and "ACHZURIUS"

304

 Feb 17, 2010 at 03:38 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #67  
Anonymous Says:

The family of the ones he murdered has justice-Im sure you wouldnt be saying this if it was your daughter that he murdered

It is a shame that after so many years, they could not come to forgive him for this terrible murder. It will not bring her back. Viewing his death and stating that it a closer for them is a shame. ANOTHER MURDER WAS COMMITED.

305

 Feb 17, 2010 at 03:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #69  
Pashuteh Yid Says:

While I wrote the Gov and others on the list, and tried my best to have his life spared, I now realize that this was wrong. I didn't want to write this post until after the execution, but the drugs defense was obviously ridiculous, and we would never agree with that defense for any other murderer. Although he really did have a difficult childhood, and experienced the sickness and loss of his father and an inadequate mother, nevertheless, as others pointed out, many on death row have experienced very difficult situations. If the governor had granted clemency, this would have been used as a precedent in case law and prevented any use of the death penalty anywhere. Every lawyer would say, but you pardoned Grossman, why not my client. It was a heinous crime. We have no right to judge our own differently than we would judge others. Not a single one of us would have asked for clemency in similar circumstances for a non-Jew.

The lesson must be that murder is never acceptable no matter what your circumstances are (unless it is self-defense) period. It is a terrible tragedy, and the Parks family deserved this closure. Justice has been served fairly by Bnei Noach.May we know no more tzaar

It is shame to read such a blog from a fallow Jew. One way G-d views you is the way you view others.

306

 Feb 17, 2010 at 03:54 AM A. Nuran Says:

Reply to #240  
Anonymous Says:

Rachmonis on the victim should not blur justice.

Indeed. My sympathy for the late Mr. Grossman is tempered by the justice of the State's case against him. He murdered an innocent woman and officer of the Law. I do not like the death penalty because it is politicized, unfair, disgracefully administered, expensive, a failure, and leaves no opportunity for mistakes. Look at the Innocence Project which has been exposing the corruption of the whole death penalty industry.

But as long as we have it, and as long as others are getting that terrible penalty for less I couldn't demand special favors for this man. By the standards of the State of Florida his guilt was proved beyond any reasonable doubt. He had ample chances for review.

His victim did not have a last meal. Nobody reviewed her case. Thousands didn't appeal to her killer for clemency. Her ethnicity wasn't an issue nor her piety. Her mother has spent a quarter century weeping for a beloved daughter who did nothing wrong and was beaten to a pulp then shot.

If her killer really made teshuvah it will be taken into account by the Final Judge whose decisions are beyond fault or appeal. I commend the souls of killer and killed to Him and wish peace on the families

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 Feb 17, 2010 at 03:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #73  
Anonymous Says:

The Gov of Florida was not pushed around by people who have no idea of compassion and care.

Congragualtion Gov Crist for standing up to those who were greatly mistaken.

We Jews dont understand a very simple thing.

This murderer YMS caused horrific damage to a family.

Nay a word was mentioned of the young police women by all the gemachteh schnorishe "RABBIS" who rallied on hehalf of this murderer.

Shame on us for pandering on behalf of a convicted murderer.

We have done a huge chillul hashem for prostrating ourselves on behalf of this murderer.

We are that dumb and so we will be pointed out for retribution.When you live amongst the goyim in their land you learn as a Jew to lay low like a worm.

THis is not your country..You are a guest in America and you better learn your place.

What part of that do you dumb fools not understand?.

Do you think that having a menorah at the White House gives you the right to interfere in the criminal justice system of the country?

He, YMS got his just deserts...Now G-d will deal with him..

And hopefully with you. You are the biggest disgrace walking on this earth. Your IQ most be in the 30th. Making this CHILUL HASHEM and having no RACHMUNAS on a person that committed a terrible crime under the influence of drugs, with no parents to guide him. He should have finished his life in prison like many , many, many other murderers in our system. It was NOT, NOT, NOT premeditate murder.

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 Feb 17, 2010 at 03:56 AM Colonel Sanders Says:

Reply to #38  
Anonymous Says:

You didn't necessary fail, it could be that you helped him go up being a religious yid

Was the fried chicken sandwich he ate from the canteen kosher/ i doubt it, and speaks to his apparent lack of genuineness.

309

 Feb 17, 2010 at 03:59 AM touchy/feely Says:

Reply to #130  
Anonymous Says:

i feel so touched that he said shema before he died. :-(

You are touched................touched in the head. are you touched that he said Shema with treif chicken on his breath ?

310

 Feb 17, 2010 at 04:13 AM Grossman Email Part 1 Says:

Here is the email I received from Governer Christie today:

Thank you for contacting me and sharing your concerns about the execution of Martin Grossman.



On December 13, 1984, Mr. Grossman violated the terms of his probation by leaving Pasco County and having a stolen firearm in his possession. In a routine stop, Florida Fish and Wildlife Officer Margaret Park found the weapon. When she reached for the radio in her patrol car to report him, Mr. Grossman attacked her with her own large flashlight, beating her over the head and shoulders 20 to 30 times. When Officer Park tried to fight back, Mr. Grossman took her .357 Magnum revolver and shot her in the back of the head, killing her.



Mr. Grossman took several carefully planned steps to cover up this horrible crime. The weapon was buried, and Mr. Grossman attempted to burn his clothes and shoes, which were later disposed of in a nearby lake. The following day, Mr. Grossman thoroughly cleaned the van and changed its tires to mislead law enforcement.

311

 Feb 17, 2010 at 04:14 AM Grossman Email Part 2 Says:

Here is the second part:

Officer Park’s autopsy revealed lacerations on top of her head, hemorrhaging inside the scalp and extensive fracturing of the skull. All of these injuries resulted from Mr. Grossman’s attack. The facts of this crime clearly meet the definition of heinous, atrocious and cruel, and his actions afterward demonstrate his well-reasoned attempts to cover it up.

The courts have fully reviewed Mr. Grossman’s legal claims, and his conviction and sentence have been affirmed by both the Florida Supreme Court and the United States Supreme Court. Based on the facts and exhaustion of legal proceedings, and in accordance with Florida law, I signed his death warrant on January 12, 2010.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

312

 Feb 17, 2010 at 04:40 AM murray Says:

Reply to #272  
Isaac Says:

It's a terrible tragedy that a Jew would commit such a terrible crime as to merit capital punishment.

The unfortunate tragedy is that this perpetrator got the drop on the lady agent, I wish that she or another agent or armed citizen hot shot and killed this sack of crap first, then we would Not be having these debates.

313

 Feb 17, 2010 at 05:09 AM outraged in the know Says:

Reply to #254  
PMO Says:

BDE

As tragic as this is, please keep in mind that hatred toward the Governor is very misplaced. Charlie Crist is a moderate who has been VERY good to the Jewish communities in FL. His support has helped us grow our communities to be very strong. He did not sentence this man to death. The people of the state of FL did. Governor Crist followed the law as is his job to do.

Please don't defend him,he is not worthy of it.He did not have to sign it either,according to the law.The main thing is ,he acted briallintly like a politican,but as a human being,like a piece of dirt.He made beleive he was considering it,for example,just to reduce pressue from his donors,for example.And by the way there were numerous goyim,including right wing republicans who support the death penalty,urging him to support a 60 day stay.

314

 Feb 17, 2010 at 05:33 AM Frum Says:

It was a chilul Hashem that you supported a murderer and not the victim's family.

315

 Feb 17, 2010 at 07:08 AM Anonymous Says:

Mr. Governor,
You simply ignored the voice of 50,000 people, including prominent Rabbis, Professors and even the Pope, which makes me to believe you are the ignorant, anti-Semite and bloodthirsty Governor, my hope is you are not going to be re-elected ever again.

316

 Feb 17, 2010 at 07:14 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #292  
Anonymous Says:

isnt it amazing that the all the guys on death row always seem to find G-d only after they murder someone and are sentenced to death.

Yes, teshuva comes AFTER the sin, there is no need for teshuva before the sin.
Unfortunately, not all sinners are zocheh to do teshuva.

317

 Feb 17, 2010 at 07:26 AM