Jerusalem – Haredim will go to jail rather then get drafted into the army MK Moshe Gafni of United Torah Judaism told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Security committee on Tuesday.
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Gafni also claimed that despite the fact that Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Yisrael Beytenu leader Avigdor Lieberman “loathe” each other, neither of them really want to advance a general election but were doing so simply to shorten the time Yair Lapid and Shaul Mofaz have for preparing for them.
The committee hearing was called to decide whether or not the proposals of the committee’s Working Group for the Implementation of the Tal Law should be published or not, in light of the fact that the High Court of Justice ruled the law unconstitutional in February.
Despite the law’s coming expiry on August 1, along with Gafni’s objections, the Working Group decided to continue with its work and, once complete, will present its final findings and recommendations.
Speaking to the issue of haredi enlistment in the army, Gafni said that none of the bills proposed thus far would solve the problem.
“Anyone who can see straight knows that it is impossible to injure [someone who defers army service under the] Torato Omunato framework,” said Gafni, in reference to the 2002 Tal Law which legally mandated indefinite postponement of army service for full time yeshiva students.
“At the end of the day, there won’t be any change, and in the worst case scenario, yeshiva students will just sit in jail.”
Working group chairman MK Yohanan Plesner (Kadima) said that a great responsibility lies on the shoulders of the panel, and that in the coming months they would endeavor “with or without elections, to coalesce a majority to pass a law mandating obligatory service, and to halt attempts aimed at preserving the Tal Law under the pretext of early elections.”
Plesner also vaunted the Kadima party’s proposal for a Tal Law replacement, saying it would lead to real change of the current situation.
There are currently 54,000 full-time yeshiva students who are able to indefinitely postpone their military service through the terms of the Tal Law, passed in 2002.
The current rate of haredi enlistment into the army stands at about 16 percent, as opposed to the national average of approximately 75 percent. Ultra-Orthodox Participation in national or civilian service programs currently stands at roughly 11 percent, bringing the percentage of haredim in some form of military or national service up to about 27 percent of those of draft age.
The Ultra-Orthodox community and its leaders argue that the spiritual well-being of the state is as important to its security as practical defense. A large protest movement against the low level of haredi enlistment has gathered pace this year, and has demanded mandatory military or national service for all, including the ultra-Orthodox.
Gafni, the chairman of the Knesset’s Finance Committee, also pointed out that the coalition agreements made when the present government was formed included a specific section explicitly guaranteeing the preservation of the status of yeshiva students.
“This chapter was signed by Yisrael Beytenu and Labor too, before it split up,” Gafni noted.
As to the question of whether or not to publish the findings and recommendations of the Working Group, Gafni said there was no point since the main political parties have already proposed new bills on the matter.
MK Nissim Ze’ev of Shas, who was also present at the hearing, proposed the establishment of ultra-Orthodox Hesder yeshivas to advance the integration of haredim into the army. The Hesder yeshiva system provide a framework for national-religious soldiers to combine their military service with yeshiva study over a five year period. Typically, the program constitutes a three and a half year period in yeshiva and one and a half years in IDF training and active duty.
Ze’ev is an advocate of maintaining the Torato Omunato framework but is also in favor of encouraging increased haredi enlistment.
It would be much better for the Charediim and the Medinah in general if those who are true objectors are thrown into jail and made to suffer the consequences of their actions. I suspect the conditions in jail (in terms of religious observance) will be much worse than anything they might encounter if they served their country like any normal citizen. Only by imposing real pain on these guys and their families will they be made to rethink their position and recognize they have an obligation to serve that is no differnet than anyone else who lives in EY.
Gafni know that no one is going to throw thousands of Chareidim in jail. However if stipends are cut to those who do not do their share of national service, and yeshivas that facilitate those who do no service to Israel are cut off the government payroll, there will be a huge turn around in everyones attitude.
I will vote for WHATEVER party that will get the hareidim into the army & working. So will hundreds of thousands of other Israelis.
There are two approaches to the State of Israel in the Haredi world. The liberal branches, which are most of the Haredim in Israel, believe that it is permitted to work with the State and to accept money from them and vote. Such Haredim have no excuse to avoid National Service, as long as it does not violate Halachah. However, as we see from the recent “earplug” debacle, such problems abound in the IDF, and even for such Haredim, Halachah overrides service. If a way were devised that they could serve the government in a Kosher way, perhaps as chaplains, learning as chavrusos for those who are interested in a chavrusa, or working a desk job that is not in a mixed-gender environment, they would have no excuse.
For the right-wing Haredi groups, that do not accept money from the government, and do not vote, they should petition the UN for a status of an indigenous people conquered by foreign imperialists, like the Native Americans have Indian Reservations in the US. Rav Dushinsky zya went to the UN asking for such an arrangement, that the Edah HaCharedis should be under UN control and not ipso facto Israeli citizens, but was turned down. We should continue this effort.
To me, this seems simple. There is no need to jail these people. They are already parasites on the nation there is no reason for the public to feed, clothe and house them in expensive accommodations.
From my perspective, anyone who refuses service should not be entitled to ANY social assistance. If you’re not willing to serve the public good, the public should not be forced to serve you.
well said
# 1 and #2
throw them in jail or they can leave the country and not come back
“The Ultra-Orthodox community and its leaders argue that the spiritual well-being of the state is as important to its security as practical defense.”
No reason you can’t do both!
Let the army not be anti from and show how u consider a charaidi life style (not forcing them to do such against Torah) and u may have a better chance in having them join. Am for them serving However if this is my child going to serve i would only give my blessing if he can have his religious freedom where in Israel they look to destroy out faith. Its establishment has not change.
they have the nerve to forced the Charaidi youth after they openly make the soldiers do acts against Torah frum values
No need to put anyone in jail.
Simply follow the psak of Rav Shach, zt’L., who declared that if Yeshiva students are drafted, he will move the Yeshivas to Switzerland.
Anyone for a delicious piece of dark chocolate?????
So what Moshe Gafni is saying is exactly what I’ve been saying: that real Jews (known here as chareidim) will not serve, no matter what the regime does. And I am not even in the Knesset. 🙂
The idea of getting more Chareidim to join the army is one big joke. The facts are if all Chareidim joined the army tomorrow the secular Israeli would freak out.
Number 4: Well said.
The story you relate about Rabbi Dushinsky may have occurred after the founding of the state. I have never heard it before.
But it is well known that in 1947, while the UN committee was visiting Palestine and coming to its decision, Rabbi Dushinsky asked them to at least declare Jerusalem as a UN territory. The UN agreed with him and the subsequent partition plan specified this clearly. But of course, the Zionists made conquering Jerusalem one of their first objectives. When UN mediator Bernadotte demanded that they go back to the partition plan borders, the Stern Gang assassinated him.
In 1952, the Israeli government announced that every Jew residing in its borders would automatically become a citizen of their state on July 14, unless he submitted a petition before that date. Reb Amram Blau and some others did so.
The Charedim and the settlers are the biggest danger to israel, far greater then the overblown Iran threat.
I am very much in favor of speaking respectfully. It is encumbent upon us to do so. It is also important for us to be really honest. During the terrible years of WWII, when Jews had no chance to escape – no countries wanted to admit us. With the great chesed of H”KBH, the Jewish country of Israel was re-established. Literally, we came “May arba kanfos ha’aretz”. We came, we built shuls and schools and batei Midrash, and stores, and houses, and businesses…. Our beautiful young people literally risk their lives – go into Tzahal and serve with grace and dignity – to protect Am Yisrael – B’chol makom she’haym. There is kosher food, there are minyanim, there are sifre Torah in the IDF. But most of all, there is mesiras nefesh – literally! So it is very hard for me to understand how today, one group thinks they should be exempt from participating in this Israeli government. I don’t get it.