Israel – Retired Supreme Court Justice Dalia Dorner suggested that secular passengers start riding haredi bus lines en masse to counter the gender segregation advocated by the ultra-Orthodox.
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In a conference at Tel Aviv University, Dorner said that this was not a matter for the High Court of Justice, and that the court was unlikely to address the issue.
The public Egged bus company operates special “mehadrin” lines on which men and women are required to sit separately. Dorner insisted that Egged must provide an alternative for secular passengers who wish to ride these lines but are opposed to segregation.
Dorner stressed that the proposed move was not meant as an act of defiance against the religious administration, but rather as means to exert pressure on the transportation minister and the Egged bus company to operate complimentary lines for the non-religious public.
“These arrangements should not be forced on the general population,” she explained.
Dorner told students that young Jerusalemites should actively protest the segregated lines by using these buses more and disregarding the modesty codes practiced on them.
“Segregation… undermines human dignity and is humiliating, it’s like the separation between blacks and white,” she stated. “If you, the young people. Don’t fight for equality, there will be no equality, because the haredi sector is very dominant and is fighting for its rights.”
reshante!
Good for her. If they want to observe kol hacovod. But they have no right to dominate others.
I’m glad I’m not in charge of Egged. I’m also glad that Israel has managed to solve all of its really big problems, and can start spending its time worrying about who sits where on busses.
Egged should definitely provide alternative way for non frum jews to ride
besides wouldn’t that benefit us not to have them ride the Mehadrin Line
i wonder if this is who we are supposed to have in mind when we say the words….
“v’chol ha’zeidim m’heiro t’akker u’tishaber u’timager u’tichalem v’tashpileim v’tachniem b’meheiroh b’yomeinu”.
The judge makes a good point…the hareidim have every right to ride on segregated buses; just don’t ask the public sector to provide such buslines…they should do it privately. I don’t however, like the idea of forcing a confrontation on the buses by having women force their way on to a men’s only bus. They should simply NOT provide such service.
“”Segregation… undermines human dignity and is humiliating, it’s like the separation between blacks and white,” she stated. “If you, the young people. Don’t fight for equality, there will be no equality, because the haredi sector is very dominant and is fighting for its rights.”
How about a more reasonable reason to fight gender segregation? Gender segregation leads to people remaining single. How is someone supposed to meet a mate if in school, at weddings, at occasions and social gatherings men are separated from women. Perhaps this isn’t a problem for chasidim who have arranged marriages, but for many others, we need more opportunities meeting members of the opposite gender.
Whats next; special litvashe buses who won’t ride with chassidim?, vat about a belzer line for those ehrelche yiddim who think that lubavitch are misnagdim and to be avoided at all costs? where does it stop.
Privatize the mehadrin buses. Mark them distinctly and only allow passengers to board who have tickets purchased from designated kiosks. They can not stop at regular stops but must have their own designated stops. This way, those who do not want to ride them can avoid them, and no one can board them by mistake.
Dorner is an idiot. The line are in charedi neighborhoods. In other words. the majority of those residents want segregated lines. Others will have to live with it. Likewise, in secular neighborhoods the charedim will have to live with muxed buses. This is not like blacks and whites at all. There the whites imposed their authority over them. Here the women want it too. [Perhaps the women would prefer to sit in front. But that’s a different story.]
i think its wrong to have segerated buses. it degrades humans. why are we frum jews lack manners and always primitive. its time for new leadership!!!
I do not understand the problem? If one is offended or uncomfortable to ride on the special bus lines, they can ride on the ones they do feel comfortable with. If all the bus lines would be changed, then I can see it being a problem for some. To force them to drive with mixed buses is the same thing. If you feel uncomfortable being in a frum bus you have an option. Why can the frum people not have an option.
I guess some commenting here don’t know anything about Israel, Egged and the bus service. The vast majority of buses operated by Egged are “secular” buses. There are also some lines that provide service in the chareidi neighborhoods of the “mehadrin” type.
For Retired Supreme Court Justice Dalia Dorner to suggest that Egged “must provide an alternative for secular passengers who wish to ride these lines but are opposed to segregation”, she seems to be asking that these people walk, or ride to a neighborhood they don’t live in simply to board a bus they don’t want to ride on because of the separation of men and women.
These are bus lines provided by Egged specifically for the religious community so they can benefit from the bus service, like everyone else, while not having to compromise their religious beliefs.
I presume that the problem is when you have entire lines that are Mehadrin.
and these resho’im and machsheifos sit on the supreme court cloaked in a holier-than-thou attitude and pretend to be so impartial.
she’s advocating and pushing these young students to cause rioting, to go into peaceful neighborhoods and stir up problems!
and this is a retired supreme court justice!
they’re all just filthy hypocritical bullies in burkhas
I believe eged should be providing services to all their customers both secular and religious. But the comments of Justice Dalia Dorner simply defy logic. “Segregation… undermines human dignity and is humiliating, it’s like the separation between blacks and white,” I fail to see how she can to compare this with the black-white segregation, that was showing the superiority of whites by making the blacks go to the back. Here it’s due to equality. Men go to one side and women to the other.
The beauty of Judaism is “KEDUSHA” which means “SEPERATE”. THIS SECULAR JUDGE DOESN’T UNDERSTAND THAT. SHE CALLS “KEDUSHA” “SEGREGATION”. The mingling of the sexes was reserved for spouses only. That’s the beauty of our nation. As a judge she must have witnessed many horrible and negative situations which were a direct outcome of the free liberal society that we live in today. With the internet and all the tech that’s out there today this “segregation” concept is infiltrating and penetrating our society. Our Rabbunim Shelit”a are doing whatever they can to prevent this, and stop it from happening.
The Torah recognizes that it’s difficult! Its against the human nature that’s why the Torah says “V’LO SOSURU……ASHER ATEM ZONIM ACHREIHEM” The Torah tells us that although your human tendency is to be attracted to the opposite, Don’t let that happen. That’s our job on this world. Work on it again and again till it becomes natural.
Even by Matan Torah we find the Torah say “bocheh l’mishpichosov” Which Chaza”l say that Klal Yisroel was upset that they were now prohibited to Airayes. This is our entire job on this world to overcome the evil inclination that tries to prevent us from reaching heights in KEDUSHA. Sometimes the Yetzer Hora is even dressed up as a judge. So let us all get together and work on KEDUSHA and be Zocha to the KABALAS HATORAH B’TAHRA!!
segregation is inhumane?
does she want the men to use the same restroom as the ladies too? I see no reason why the chareidim shouldn have their option. its not like there are nomore mixed buses.
its a pity on these self hating jews who think that only by copying the values of the goyim they will get somewhere. these people are NISHT KEIN GOYIM AND NISHT KEIN YIDDEN they are simply lost.
Is the court in eretz yisroel required to take account of halacha in their opinions or do they narrowly focus on technical legal issues without considering what the torah would require?