New York – Anti-Zionist Group: Five Towns Jewish Times Newspaper Distorting Views of Toldos Avraham Yitzchok, Editor Responds

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    A reception for the Toldos Avraham Yitzchak Rebbe was held Thursday evening of last week at Congregation Shaaray Tefila in Lawrence. Seated are Rabbi Dovid Weinberger (at left) and the Rebbe. Standing are event chairman Sender Schwartz and two aides to the Rebbe.New York – For the past several weeks, American Jewry has been privileged to host Rabbi Shmuel Yaakov Kahn, the Toldos Avraham Yitzchok Rebbe, who has come from Jerusalem to visit followers and raise funds for his religious schools. The Rebbe leads one of the largest anti-Zionist communities in the Holy Land, who do not participate in the Israeli elections, do not accept government funding for their schools, and in general refuse to recognize the existence of the Zionist state.

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    The Rebbe’s grandfather, Rabbi Aharon Roth, the Shomer Emunim Rebbe (1894-1946), was the founder of the community. It is said that Rabbi Aharon Roth was once taking a walk in the field and his disciples wanted to bring him a chair to sit on and rest. But Rabbi Roth refused, preferring to sit down on a rock. “I don’t want to sit on something that the wicked Zionists made,” he said. “I would like to sit on a place that these wicked people did not yet touch and defile.”

    The Rebbe’s father and predecessor was Rabbi Avraham Yitzchok Kahn, known as the Toldos Aharon Rebbe. He passed away in 1996. Two years before the end of his life, he wrote in his book Igros Divrei Emunah (p. 225) that Zionism has become a worse sin in the eyes of G-d now that religious Jews have become the strongest Zionists. This places the entire Jewish people in danger. “As long as Zionism was a largely secular movement,” he said, “the defending angels in G-d’s court could at least say that the keepers of the Torah, the most important segment of the Jewish people, has nothing to do with this state that violates G-d’s decree of exile. But now that many religious Jews have begun to speak of Eretz Yisroel as if it is ours and it is forbidden to return it, thus aligning themselves with the Zionist ideal, the angels no longer have any defense, may Hashem have mercy.”

    The current Rebbe continues faithfully in their tradition. But last week, when he visited the Modern Orthodox community of Lawrence, New York, this tradition brought him into conflict with the local community members, most of whom are strong Zionists. As the Rebbe held a tish and spoke with individuals, some in Lawrence asked why they should give money to support an anti-Zionist community. The controversy was deepened by the perception that Toldos Avraham Yitzchok members were central players in the recent demonstrations in the streets of Jerusalem against a parking lot opened by the mayor on Shabbos.

    Seeking to make peace between the Rebbe and the Lawrence community, Larry Gordon, editor of the Five Towns Jewish Times, went to interview the Rebbe and his wife and then made the interview the subject of a lead article in his newspaper. Quite understandably, Gordon set out to portray the Rebbe as a Zionist, whose only complaint is that the State of Israel is not religious enough. However, the way in which he went about it, using falsified quotations and his own specious arguments, does not reflect well on the reliability of his journalism.

    We should mention that the Five Towns Jewish Times is a weekly paper that reads less like a source of news and more like a Zionist propaganda organ. For example, this past week, under the headline “Toldos Avraham Yitzchok: Perception vs. Reality” (i.e. it is not anti-Zionist as it appears) were two other headlines: “We Are All Israelis” and “This Land is Our Land”. The paper is distributed all over Flatbush and given out for free, in restaurants and street-corner boxes. It is clearly an ideologically motivated publication.

    In the article Gordon wrote: “Their Old World traditions handed down through the generations, however, are also shrouded in controversy, as fringe elements organize sometimes violent demonstrations on the streets of Jerusalem on matters they feel come into conflict with the sanctity of Shabbos, particularly in their carefully cut-out conclaves and neighborhoods. Who the actual players are in these unnecessary and embarrassing demonstrations is largely unclear.

    ”These activities, though, combined with the community’s official position of non-recognition of the legitimacy of the secular State of Israel, brought them at loggerheads with others this week as they seek material support from communities who are identified by their strong support for the State of Israel.

    ”I sat down with the Toldos Avraham Yitzchak Rebbe and his Rebbetzin between appointments to see people last Sunday—some of whom had flown in from other parts of North America—to try to clarify and understand where the Rebbe and his chassidim stand on the all-important issue of support for the State of Israel.

    “’What it comes down to, very briefly, is that the government violates Shabbos and sanctions this desecration,’ the Rebbe said clearly and calmly in Yiddish. ‘If there would not be this violation of Shabbos, we would have absolutely no problem with the State of Israel.’”

    The publication of these words in the Rebbe’s name caused an uproar in anti-Zionist communities throughout the New York area and elsewhere. Dozens of people wrote to the Five Towns Jewish Times website and other sites where the story was republished, declaring unequivocally that the Rebbe must have been misquoted. Our own organization, Jews Against Zionism, received incredulous phone calls and emails asking us to get to the bottom of this.

    We contacted the Rebbe’s wife, who told us as follows: 1) It was not the Rebbe who spoke to Gordon, only she. The Rebbe was present at the meeting but did not say anything. 2) The Rebbe and the Rebbetzin were not aware that this was an interview, much less with a Zionist newspaper. Had they known this, they would not have agreed to speak to Gordon, lest he misrepresent their views. They were under the impression that Gordon was just another one of hundreds who come to speak with the Rebbe. 3) She did not make the statement quoted in the article. She did speak against those demonstrators who throw stones, saying that the Rebbe was strongly opposed to that. On that point Gordon quoted her correctly. 4) The Rebbe has decided not to fight the newspaper for misquoting him, or to issue a denial, because these Zionists are impossible to deal with, and even a denial will not help.

    Mr. Gordon continues to postulate about the Rebbe’s “Zionism”:

    “Based on what the Rebbe and his wife had to say, and taking them at their word, it seems that they are simply principled people who, as observant Jews, find the desecration of Shabbos in the land of the Jews intolerable…

    ”To many of us, the image of Israel and her survival is the greatest and most challenging undertaking of our time. I don’t believe that the Toldos Avraham Yitzchak Rebbe feels any differently about this issue. It may very well be that those chassidim of various sects—perhaps only on the periphery—who question the entire concept of Zionism, its proliferation, and support do so because of the fashion in which Shabbos has been trampled on all too often over the years…”

    Actually, the greatest challenge of our time is the challenge that the Zionist state presents to Judaism. By substituting a man-made state for G-d’s promise of redemption, the state has undermined the foundations of our faith, and has made a mockery of the hopes of Jews for 2000 years. Thank G-d that there are still Jews who remember those hopes and have not thrown them away to jump on the Zionist bandwagon. The most challenging undertaking of our time will be to bring back the rest of the Jewish people to their original faith and to undo all the damage the Zionists have done.

    To suggest that the main issue is observance of Shabbos is to trivialize the true main issue. We hope that from now on nobody will take Larry Gordon’s articles, or anything in his newspaper, seriously.

    Below is a response sent to VIN News from Larry Gordon editor of Five Towns Jewish Times

    Obviously the authors of this anonymous web submission are indulging in extreme propaganda combined with large doses of fabrication. Clearly, this
    group pejoratively labels anyone that does not fit in with their particular brand of extremism Our preliminary research has identified this group as a former affiliate or offshoot of the extreme anti-Zionists that met with the Iranian leader. Let me just make a few brief points:

    1. At least one other person was in the room when I conducted the interview with the Rebbe and Rebbitzen. The comments that were made in response to a series of questions can be independently verified.

    2. Both the Rebbe and Rebbitzen were made aware, in my presence, that our conversation was, in fact, for a newspaper interview. A copy of the paper was shown to both of them.

    3. All statements or comments attributed to either the Rebbe or the Rebbitzen were carefully transcribed and are accurately quoted. Considering the
    circumstances they are in, I can understand the rationale in not fully revealing to this group some of the things that were said. It’s probably important to note that after several remarks the Rebbe or the Rebbitzen asked that a specific remark not appear in the article. That request was honored.

    The 5 Towns Jewish Times stands by its story and does not have to explain anything to people who write from the shadows.


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    67 Comments
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    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I am so glad they have cleared this up. I guess the Jewish Star was right after all.

    dovid's friend
    dovid's friend
    14 years ago

    I think it is time to let this issue go to the wayside and move on.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    why is vos is neias quoting articles and responses from neturei karta???? they have been put in cherem by everysingle chareidi group.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    This gorden is messing with the wrong guy.

    you don’t start with a Tzaddik.

    formally
    formally
    14 years ago

    the Toldos Avraham should have kept quiet they sound more like lunatics now.

    Not to sit on a chair that was weaved by a Zionist, but in Europe he sat on chairs weaved by anti-Semitic people . What does he do, impart all chairs and check who weaved it. I see a haschgucha for furniture coming soon.

    I wish the Toldos Avraham suite for libel and then we can get to the bottom of this.

    Funny ther recant came after he collected the money, why not right away?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Go Larry Gordon!! Blow these meshuganahs out of the water!
    The 5tjt is an excllenet paper and is following the ways of ahron hakohen – bakesh shalom verodfaihu. We should all learn from him.

    Achdus
    Achdus
    14 years ago

    Its too bad we couldnt just debate Zionism using only the Torah. Unfortunately, ad homenim attacks and emotions get in the way of fruitful discussion. Both sides seek to villianize the other and that is no way to win anyone over. Personally as an AntiZionist I believe that most Zionists are tinok shenishbah, born into their beliefs but I am sure most Zionists feel the same way about me. If this is true then what makes it right to attack one another? During these trying times when we are feeling the flames of growing antisemitism it is foolish to divide the Jewish people. So I implore everyone to be respectful, and open your mind to other possibilities and maybe we will learn something one another.

    chassidishe Zionist
    chassidishe Zionist
    14 years ago

    When the article was published, how did local people react? Did any withdraw their pledges or cancel their checks? Did people refuse to meet with them?

    Why are you all surprised? The Rebbe, while maybe not despising the “sinner” despises the “sin” – Zionism. So why does he live there? A simple, naive argument that has, at least for me, very serious ramifications.

    The Rebbe has more of a right to criticize the govt: he lives there. We don’t. However to bury one’s head in the sand & either ignore the needs of the Cholonim or throw stones is not the way to effect change. We all know that.

    Sender Schwartz is a local, he knows exactly how to manipulate the system. You expect me to believe he was as surprised as the Rebbe when he read the article? You have to be kidding! Go back & see WHY 5Towns JN was selected for this rare interview.

    I know Larry Gordon. He is a rare breed, an honest reporter, & I have no doubt he informed these holy visitors exactly the issues that would be discussed. I am certain Larry reported verbatim what was said. If the Rebbetzin came across poorly, who’s to blame for that? She spoke freely. He reported. Can they expect broken windows & demonstrations now?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    After all they made a terible “Chillul Hashem”. They made a discusting look om chariedim. If they do know how to play the show of “Chanufa” why didn’t they do it till now.

    jancsi
    jancsi
    14 years ago

    i must say the article is interesting especially where it says the story of the rebbe being given a chair and refusing saying that he doesnt want to sit on a chair the wicked zionists made well let me say that it takes one to know one if the rebbe sees evil in others the he must have similar evil in himself thats all i want to say it takes one to know one

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    They won’t sit in a Zionist’s chair but they’ll take a Zionist’s money?

    5T residant
    5T residant
    14 years ago

    this is our cause…….we must raise more money for them…..are you with me?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    we may all have different beleifs, however one thing is clear.
    this man is holy
    I wouldnt start up with him.
    he promised a relative of mine that they will have a child (after many years of hoping,trying and waiting) and he was right!

    NYCbuff
    NYCbuff
    14 years ago

    i have known Larry Gordon and his brother several years now. i can very open say they are both great and honest people…Larry is a great writer and does not write what he dreams.

    Larry: one word for you… Chazak!! -k-

    gelt
    gelt
    14 years ago

    I do not want to seat in a chair from a zionist, but I want their gelt to buy the chair

    DizzyIzzy
    DizzyIzzy
    14 years ago

    Incredible!!! A textbook case of biting the hand that feeds you.

    That article was a gift from Larry Gordon.

    His softball reporting and puff piece slant was clearly intended to give the rebbe a safe forum to sugarcoat his outrageous philosophical excesses. It’s most likely that Mr. Gordon’s interest was to pave the way for the rebbe’s return (READ: major advertising dollars!); to blunt criticism directed at Rabbi Dovid Weinberger, and; to undermine the credibility of Mr. Gordon’s principal and principled competition, The Jewish Star.

    But none of this diminishes the golden opportunity Mr. Gordon gave the rebbe. And for all his transparent cynicism, I emphatically reject any claim that Mr. Gordon is purposefully manipulative, or a liar.

    The rebbe’s shocking distortion of facts, vis-à-vis his 5TJT interview; his childish retreat behind his wife to avoid owning up to his statements; his gross lack of Hakaras HaTov, and; his willingness to throw a fellow Jew under the bus when it suits his needs, is a telling reflection of his character, and a sad reminder of what passes for gadlus these days.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    the real question is not on mr gordon but of the rebba if he did indeed make these statemewnts they are not in his idealogy then it was said to shut up the dumb americans to pick their pockets go to him or his brother ansd see for your self this a money making machine and we americans are the cash cows

    A.N.
    A.N.
    14 years ago

    The anti-Zionism from the Satmar Rav and others in his circle had little to do with secularism, which for them is a peripheral issue. If I recall VaYoel Moshe correctly, it’s the Three Oaths, and the shitah that any sovereignty can’t occur before the geulah proper. The statement by the rebbe that reduces the controversy down to chilul Shabbos is thus astonishing.
    I doubt that Larry Gordon would purposely distort the rebbe’s words to fit some agenda- I would sooner find a more benign reason than accuse another Jew of dishonesty (but see Al Geula V’HaTemura for another view on ZIonist journalists). Perhaps the rebbe was refering to active opposition to the State through protests and the like. If the gov’t would be shomer shabbos ,the rebbe would oppose demonstrations but remain opposed to the State passively. This is all speculation, but I believe it’s a reasonable explanation because it’s consistent with the non-crazy anti-Zionist’s shitah and avoids accusing Gordon of lying.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    long live sender schwartz, a great american

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Sender Schwartz is a man of great integrity. If he supports the rebbe that is enough for me. I don’t care what the article says.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    lets not forget this holy man did not take el al airlines [dont be mafarness the zionist]and was stopped by customs. hurt them where it hurts ,in their pockets.Dumb americans feeding these low lifes

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I would pay $10 a page for Larry’s work.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    A great issue was raised “why if they don’t believe in Zionism why do they live in E”Y? If they truly believe in galus, why not truly be in galus?

    Secondly, my husband went to the tish (tent). He said it was crowded with his own Chasidim and not many of the neighborhood men. In addition he went Motzei Shabbos and came back with the same report. The neighborhood was flooded with chassidic guests who were came along with the Rebbe, but there weren’t that many neighborhood members who participated. In addition that particular shabbos was also that WE were hosting IDF soldiers. The Chassidic group did not offer them a warm welcome into the festivities. Rabbi Weinberger personally escorted a group of soldiers into the tent and invited them to sit down but they were uncomfortable only at that point did the Rebbe insist that they join him.

    KEEP in mind. THESE YOUNG MEN, protect him,his family and his entire kehilah!
    They should be shown the utmost hakaros hatov!

    Honestly Frum
    Honestly Frum
    14 years ago

    The question needs to be asked that if the rebbe is so principled that he would not take money from a woman who was mechalel shabbos how can he take money from a Zionistic community if we are, in fact, the worst thing to happen to the Jewish people ever?

    Mr. Gordon, you and those who welcomed this rebbe with open arms and so freely gave him money have been played for fools. You can call these people extremists and propaganda artists but they are the rebbe’s followers telling you exactly how they and their rebbe feel. Perhaps next time a rabid anti Zionist comes to town to pick your pocket you will not be so quick to look important by painting him and his followers as Zionistic lovers of Israel whose values are so closely aligned with those of your community.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    dude, chill out. the rebbe is not a zionist. neither are tons of other chassidishe gedolim. get over it.

    anon
    anon
    14 years ago

    The connection between Toldos Aron and Neturei Karta can’t be any more clearer.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    was this interview recorded n any way?. I sure hope it was

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    It is historically recorded that there arab attacks on Jews in Eretz Yisrael in the 1800s so the establishment of the medina was not the instigation. The alliance of the arabs w/ hitler ym”s was before 1948.

    The reality is that the medina is not an independent, sovereign entity. The State’s borders are subject to the interference of the UN, the US and practically every country on the planet. Economically, the country is not self-sufficient and has to receive billions in American aid and which forces the gov’t to bend to American wishes. There are arabs in the government! That in itself demonstrates that the current State is NOT a sovereign Jewish nation that would be in violation of the issurim that are the foundation of the anti-zionist position.

    not a zionist
    not a zionist
    14 years ago

    actually zionism was strongly opposed when it first began. jews were able to emigrate to “palestine” for around 1000 years before the creation of israel, but didnt, not because arabs would kill them (many jews did emigrate while palestine was under ottoman control) but because jews knew they would return when moshiach comes to bring us. early zionism was socialist secular movement and most european rabbis oppossed zionism. however, the bankers hijacked zionism and turned it into judaism miliartistic. now religious jews adopted zionism after the 6 day war. NK is actually an old movement.
    even the ayatollah is smart enough to know that judaism and zionism are not the same.

    5T residant
    5T residant
    14 years ago

    Dizzy Izzee…

    there is no border to the piples of the 5T…..laurence is the best and most wealthy.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I dont understand why it is an avayra to be against the point of a mdina in its current form. Lets face it, the medina is not being run in a torahdik way. They are mattir avayros etc. So lets stop thinking that these people are wonderful and getting a one way ticket to gan eden when they die. granted they are getting zchusim for living in the EY area just like Eysov did.

    On the flip side, we DO daven for EY, TZION, and Yerushalayim many many times a day. The problem is that the concept of “tzion” was hijacked by the non-frum who felt it better to eat chazer and preform abortions in EY as long as you love the land — QUITE KRUM!

    lmaan hashalom
    lmaan hashalom
    14 years ago

    we can resolve this easily- Mr Gordon has the tape from the interview- why not post it online- or perhaps- have 3 rabbonim listen to it and we will know what the Rebbe did or did not say. this way we dont need to make false attacks based on rumors

    Rangers Goalie
    Rangers Goalie
    14 years ago

    Why is everyone forgetting the fact that when you go to this Rebbe or any other godal and give a donation, that Rebbe/Godol is going to give you a brocha. Yes even a 5 townman is receiving Shefa and Bracha from him, even if he-the Rebbe-doesn’t sing the h’tikva. So what?