New York – At The Kosher Supermarket ‘Oif-Shrahbin’ And Its Halachic Implications

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    A man at cash register at Kosher store in Brooklyn [Photo: Gifter for VIN News]New York – We hear it in Boro Park, Willimasburg, Kiryas Joel, Monsey, Jerusalem, and even Far Rockaway. Litvaks will have to forgive the Chassidish spelling and pronunciation of the title of this article. “Shrahb!” (“Write!”) [or in a more practical Yiddish Oif-Shrahbin’] is heard ubiquitously in grocery stores throughout religious Jewish neighborhoods. We hear it from husbands, wives, and even little girls who do the family grocery shopping.

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    What does it mean? The customer is saying, “Please write down the total grocery bill in your accounts-receivable notebook.”

    But what if the family disputes the amount indicated in the grocer’s notebook? What if the father says, “I am sorry, this is not my bill.”

    Does he still have to pay?

    The Shulchan Aruch (Choshen Mishpat 91) deals with the believability of a storekeeper and his notebook. HaRav Shammai Gross, shlita, of Kiryas Belze, author of Shevet HaKehasi, cites the Be’er Hetev (91:16), who rules that a storekeeper is only believed regarding his own accounting; however, when his notebook would require someone else to pay, he does not have believability (Shevet HaKehasi 5:268). The Pischei Teshuvah 91:9 rules in the same manner.

    But here, argues the Shevet HaKehasi, the case is different. The customer has already authorized the storekeeper to write down the amounts owed without getting a signature from the customer. In doing so, the customer indicated his willingness to trust the storekeeper.

    To answer our question, then, if the father says, “I am sorry, this is not my bill,” he must still pay it. If, however, the customer had previously renegotiated the terms and stated that, for the future, he only authorizes billings that are signed by him or a family member, then he would not have to pay.

    The halachos stated above seem quite clear.

    However, Rav Gross takes the idea even further, in a controversial ruling that we can take issue with. He writes that if the customer renegotiated the terms and stipulated that the bill is only valid if accompanied by his or a family member’s signature, and the storekeeper wrote down a bill for this customer without the customer’s signature, then the customer is exempt from paying—even if he does not deny taking the items! He further writes that there is no obligation to pay even to be yotzei midinei Shamayim, to fulfill one’s moral obligation. Rabbi Gross claims that it is tantamount to a stipulation that he would not have to pay for these items. Rabbi Gross further states that he presented his conclusions before the rosh yeshiva of the Belze Yeshiva in Israel, Rabbi Shmuel Rosengarten, shlita, and he had agreed with his conclusions.

    But this position is highly questionable, because of the laws of ona’as mammon, the principle of overcharging or underpaying. The Shulchan Aruch (Choshen Mishpat 227) rules that when a sale is made at a price above or below market value, the sale is invalid. In our case, when the customer does not have to pay for the items that he took, then this would be considered ona’as mammon—a case of underpaying for items.

    If the overcharging or undercharging was more than one-sixth (about 16.7 percent) of the market value, then the sale is deemed invalid (Choshen Mishpat 227:2). In our case, if the customer would not pay at all (as Rav Gross suggests is permitted), he is certainly underpaying by more than one-sixth of the market value, and the sale would thus be deemed invalid. Therefore, if the customer knows that he has taken the items, he must either return the items or pay for them. If he does not know that he has taken the items, but is unsure, then, while it is true that he would not be legally responsible to pay, he does have a dinei Shamayim obligation to pay.

    Another question about ona’as mammon is how one can determine the market value of an item in contemporary society, where most items are sold by retail vendors, rather than in the type of marketplace that was common in the times of Chazal. Some authorities have written that since the market conditions have changed so significantly, the idea of ona’as mammon is no longer applicable except in extreme situations (see Pischei Choshen on Choshen Mishpat 227). Other authorities rule that one takes the highest price on the market and calculates one-sixth of that figure.

    There are, however, items for which the price is stable in all outlets and, therefore, the principles of ona’as mammon would still apply across the board. A New York Times newspaper still has a set price. If a store would overcharge for the newspaper, that would constitute ona’as mammon.

    It should be noted that a store may charge for the additional effort involved in bringing an item to a remote market. Therefore, if a store upstate charges more for a city newspaper, this would not constitute ona’as mammon. It should also be noted that it is even forbidden to overcharge by less than one-sixth, though the transaction remains valid under such circumstances.

    In conclusion, we see that a customer who authorizes a storekeeper to write down a bill makes himself liable for any item written down in the storekeeper’s notebook. It might be prudent to insist that it be accompanied by a signature. (Recently, however, new technology has caused this solution to be rather difficult, because many stores have installed computerized systems that will not allow a signature authorization.) It is our further conclusion that if the storekeeper erroneously neglected to demand a signature, the customer is still responsible midinei Shamayim and has a moral obligation to pay the balance of the bill.


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    28 Comments
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    I disagree
    I disagree
    14 years ago

    With all due respect how is it onaah when the customer doesn’t sign for it? It should be looked at as a gift. A matana because the storekeeper gave it to him knowing that because he didn’t sign he’d have no obligation to pay. What do you think?

    dayan
    dayan
    14 years ago

    what does ona’ah have to do with this? if this was their deal, that when it isn’t signed he doesn’t have to pay ( I am not saying it is, but assuming it is, as this article assumes),then the storekeeper KNOWS that he will not receive the products full value, and he is mochel it, in which case of course ona’ah doesn’t apply. I think this is poshut!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The picture in this story is clearly of Pomegranate in Brooklyn, to my knowledge
    Oif Shrahbin is NOT practiced there.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The best thing for the storekkeper and the customer would be if the customers stop this oifshraben it will olny benifit what good does it bring tosuddenly see youself with a $5,000 bill

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    i had this years ago in a grocery where the owner was not careful and wrote down charges on the wrong customer’s page – telling me it’s still my responsibility because i chose to write it down instead of paying. i stopped writing down since then about 25 years ago, changed groceries and pay for all my shopping immediately. p.s. that grocery closed down.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    in today’s day and age who in their right mind would do that; lawyers require retainers, doctors demand payment at visit….This is trully a disaster waiting in the wind

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    “(Recently, however, new technology has caused this solution to be rather difficult, because many stores have installed computerized systems that will not allow a signature authorization.) “

    They can easily require a PIN to be entered.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    BTW if someone dosent pay at all there is no oinoas momon, its or genaiva or matonen

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The best thing for the storekkeper and the customer would be if the customers stop this oifshraben it will olny benifit what good does it bring tosuddenly see youself with a $5,000 bill

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    prob. no one thought about it but please note: ask your local rov regarding oifsheiben if thers a discount if paid immediately:
    if you purchase for $100.00 and if you pay IMMEDIATELY on the spot you get a discount, say 10% and you only pay $90.00, VS. if you write down they write down the FULL $100.00 (cause the discount is given if you pay immed. so the owner dosnet have to chase YOU for HIS money…).
    please consult with your rov as that might be RIBBIS! (the adt’l $10- that you write down)!!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I used to shop at a kosher grocery in Passaic and had a running tally in their “book”. I kept detailed records of all of the transtctions and the store tried adding fictitious totals on to my account several times. When I “called them on the carpet” to prove the totals were associated with my account, they admitted it must have been a mistake. All this after being accused and made to feel like a criminal. I haven’t shopped there since. It’s a disaster waiting to happen, especially with a dishonest store owner.

    Customer
    Customer
    14 years ago

    Even if he’s liable to pay, he should only pay the wholesale price,
    You should also know that if you break something in a store let’s say a gift shop, youo are only liable for the wholesale value of the item.

    we all pay more
    we all pay more
    14 years ago

    If you walk into Goldberg’s grocery in BP, everything is oif shraben. Everytime I walk in there, everyone on line is putting it on their account and there’s tons of people the owe $2,500 or more.
    Btw, you definitely pay more in a grocery that allows this oifshraben business because they have to figure in all the customers that will shaft them…

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    no onoh it.it is a matana

    The Truth
    The Truth
    14 years ago

    I have seen this ‘Oif-Shrahbin’ happen in a small makolet or small “out of town” places but why is this / how can this happen in a metropolis like New York? It does not make any sense to me at all, that stores – especially supermarkets, sell on credit written in a ledger and especially in times like this when every institution is crying out for money and people losing their jobs. Its all very nice if the store owner wants to do a chesed and not take peoples money when they buy something, but he is not running a chessed organization – he is running a business. You may say that it is in his interest to sell people food on credit – but then do it in a proper business fashion – computerized documentation of agreement and record of all sales.
    If you ask me – if you buy/sell Oif-Shrahbin, you are asking for trouble.

    Torah chogeres sak
    Torah chogeres sak
    14 years ago

    I see this as Yair Hoffman bashing chasidim. In Monsey there a plenty of Litvishe that say “Write it down.” And they goes out of his wasy to point out a BELZE rov (who know more than Hoffman will ever know) writes something that many modern orthodox businessmen will find incomprehensible, in order to make chasidim look bad. Maybe we should examine the writings of “THE RAV”. Actually maybe not.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Be careful with this whole thing. First of all many children just go and buy without parents knowing. Another issue is honesty of storeowners or who is at the register.
    In one heimishe neighborhood, the storeowner had a Tasters Choice coffee on the register and nonchalantly scanned it onto every order. Those who were careful to look at their receipt and commented were apologized to. And those who didn’t notice either paid or shriebed oif and eventually paid.
    People doing this should demand receipts and hold onto them.
    Unfortunately this custom has spread to clothing stores too.
    The grocer in our bungalow was left with over $10,000.00 in shreiben oif. It carried to next summer. If the people didn’t come back he could just say kaddish.
    A close friend of ours sells 220 volt electronics. He has outstanding shreiben oif that could buy him a summer home. One of his customers went on a shopping spree before the family trip to Eretz Yisroel for Succos with shreiben oif policy. This man has a large family. He calls the people for his money two days before Yom Tov. The shoppers answer “we’re on our way to the airport and you are bothering us with this”.

    Puzzeled
    Puzzeled
    14 years ago

    I had this problem in Israel, where there is a makolet next to my dira and i had a bill there. I switched diras and forgot to pay the bill then, and i knew for a fact that the bill was a certain amount. I got a call from the owner of the makolet a few months later telling me that i owe him almost double what it was originally. I told him what i knew i owed him and went to the makolet and the owner wasnt there and i gave what i knew i owed him to the son and walked out.
    Did I do the right thing? What do you think?
    I heard from many other people that this Makolet has a tendency to add charges to peoples bills, and many people refused to pay them. And i knew that I didnt owe what he thought.
    What do you think I should do?