Jerusalem – Analysis From Israel: Shas Versus R. Amsalem

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    Jerusalem – The headlines in Israel recently between one of the Maran HaRav Ovadiah Yoseph Shlita and Knesset Member Rabbi Haim Amsalem are disturbing for a number of reasons. One reason why it is so unsettling is that a Rabbi is out and out arguing with a venerable sage, a Gaon, whose Sefarim will clearly be used among lomde Tora until Mashiach arrives.

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    Rabbi Amsalem has shown in his past statements that he “does not hesitate to draw on Jewish sources to prove the importance of employment for those incapable of dedicating their life to Torah study,” and “promoting the true Torah way of encouraging employment for those who are not the select few who can become great rabbis,” according to the Jerusalem Post.

    The response of Rav Yoseph to the maverick member of his own Shas party was fast and fierce. “There are those who speak about yeshivot, as though they were created solely for great Torah scholars who will become rabbis and rabbinical judges, and if that doesn’t suit the person, he should go to work,” Rav Ovadiah said of Rabbi Amsalem’s doctrine, without naming him. Eventually, after Rabbi Amsalem did not capitulate, he was named specifically:
    “The Council of Torah Sages met with great sorrow [to discuss] the words of Haim Amsalem, who opened his mouth about our dear yeshiva students who…save the whole world with their Torah,” read the most recent letter, signed by the Council of Torah Sages, reads.

    “He cooked this dish in public in order to find favor in the eyes of those who hate Torah,” it continues. “He, as a teacher, is kicking his rabbis. He is added to our troubles – peasants and haters of Torah sages – and caused a desecration of G-d’s name.”

    The letter “demands from Mr. Amsalem, according to the Torah’s law, to return his mandate to Shas…If he does not return it, he is a thief.”

    But there are other reasons to be disturbed too. Specifically, there are three other disturbing elements in these headlines. The criticisms here are said with the utmost respect. No one comes close to the scholarship and knowledge of Rav Ovadiah. Even so, however, these issues are disturbing and must be said.

    The first issue is that the underlying argument between the two sides seems to be the subject of a legitimate debate in the history of Torah – and, in the latest manifestation of this debate – one side is clearly delegitimizing the view of the other.

    The Mishna in Pirkei Avot (2:2) states, “Yafe Talmud Torah im Derech Erez” which roughly translates as – “The study of Torah is praiseworthy if combined with worldly occupation (i.e. –work).”

    And there the debate begins.
    The Rash in Brachot 35b cites the Mishna and indicates that the Talmud Torah enhances the worldly occupation. In other words the essential object is the worldly occupation – not the study of Torah. This is the view of the Ri. The Rosh, however, further cites the view of Rabbi Elchonon that this is incorrect. It is Talmud Torah which is the essential object – worldly occupation is peripheral.

    In Yuma 85b the Rash cites the view of Rabbeinu Tam who agrees with the Ri.

    How have the later authorities viewed the issue? Many of them seem to come to a sort of middle ground. The Pne Yehoshua (Kidusheen 82a) writes that a person who has followed the Divine Will in every way and has not let his actions ruin him – does have this option where he can study Torah and have his work performed by others in a proper manner. Otherwise, the Pne Yehoshua recommends that he seek his income.

    The Sefer HaMikneh in Kiddushin 82b “Rav Nehorai” also writes that someone who has a strong and complete belief that Hashem will help him should involve himself in Tora and make his work “aray”- transitory and place his faith in Hashem that he will find a means of support.

    The Yaarot Dvash (1:2) also takes a middle ground, but one leaning far more toward the Torah only position. He writes that people should study for at least five years after they marry and not be satisfied with just one year.

    All agree that some percentage of people, the scholarly elite, should be learning full time. Rabbi Amsalem has clearly expressed his support for this notion. And even Rav Ovadiah Yoseph agrees that worldly occupation is a very positive thing. The question then is therefore a numbers issue. How many people is too many?

    If one examines Rav Ovadiah Yoseph’s responsa on the issue (Yechaveh Daat Vol. III #75) one would swear that, except for the very last paragraph, the entire responsa was written by someone who agrees with the view of Rabbi Absalem. (Don’t take this author’s word for it – look at it yourself.) He deals with the question of whether one should attend a Torah only school or one where one also learns how to make a living. He concludes that the education at a Torah only institution will be vastly superior. However, throughout the responsa he upholds the importance of Derech Erez – worldly occupation.

    Another issue is whether nowadays, where Tora has been so forgotten, perhaps an exception should be made to the limit on Torah only study. In other words, should there be an “affirmative-action” type of program to bring back Tora scholarship to the way it once was? Many people are, of course, aware of the Rambam’s position (Hilchot Talmud Tora 3:10) that one may not take money from the public for the study of Tora – but is the situation different now?

    Rav Moshe Feinstein zatzal, clearly held that nowadays an exception should surely be made. In a responsa (Igrot Moshe YD Vol. II #116) about Kollelim in America Rav Feinstein writes that anyone who believes he is taking upon himself the stringency of the Rambam is following the advice of the Yetzer HaRah – the evil inclination. Indeed, Rav Feinstein writes, “Would that there were more people volunteering to support Torah study!”

    Perhaps this may be a point of distinction between Kollelim in America and the issue at hand in Eretz Yisroel. Rabbi Amsalem is arguing that the funds going to the Kollelim are not being volunteered by the people necessarily. Rav Feinstein’s ruling dealt with purely voluntary contributions.

    The next issue that is disturbing is the delegitimizing of Rabbi Amsalem’s title. Is he not entitled to be referred to with his title because of his view? Especially since we have seen that the view does have precedent.

    A final issue is that Rabbi Amsalem is being called a thief. An analysis of Israeli law, however, shows that an elected Knesset member does have the right to dissent in the manner that Rabbi Amsalem has done. This is typical of the dynamics of a representative democratic system. The term “thief” is, therefore, improper.

    It is true that Rav Ovadiah Yoseph is one of the greatest living scholars of the century. His sefarim are crucial to the understanding of any and all halachic discussion. There has not been a posek or Rav in the last one hundred years with the breadth and encyclopedic knowledge of Maran Rav Ovadiah Yoseph, shlita. His knowledge exceeds that of the computers – when Bar Ilan University tested hundreds of Rabbanim.

    However, no one is perfect and all human beings are capable of making mistakes. Shas itself admits to error in having placed Rabbi Amsalem in its Knesset ticket. No one is questioning Shas’s position. Rather, the questions lie in whether Shas is dealing with the opposition to their position in the most appropriate manner.

    Rav Binyamin Yazdi is a Persian Torah scholar who studied in Eretz Yisroel. He has Semicha from both Sefardic and Ashkenazic Rabbanim. He teaches Tora and lives outside of Yerushalayim. he can be reached at [email protected]

    Editor’s Note: The views expressed in this article are solely the views of Rav Yazdi. VINNews has given him a platform in the interest of free and open discussion. comments disrespectful to any of the sides will be deleted.


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    16 Comments
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    13 years ago

    the disgusting personal insults thrown at this man show weakness, not strength

    13 years ago

    The yeshiva system in eretz yisrael is arcane, I own my own business bh and these guys dress way way way way better than me!

    How is it? I read horror stories about bochurim going hungry to buy 300$ borsalino’s.

    I don’t even own a watch! Let alone dry clean my clothes daily!!! (Go to any cleaners in yerushalayim, its packed with yeshiva guys)

    Secondly, these guys do work part time off the books.

    Why can’t they learn part time?!? What about perek echad shachris and perek echad arvis?!?

    Back in the day people went to work at age 12 or 13 or younger! As far as learning 5 years after marriage, people get married much later these days, its unbelievable for someone at 27 to try to work with 0 skills.

    What does rav yosef say regarding all the yeshiva bochurim hanging out in internet cafe’s?

    Now, there are many real talmidei chachamim living in poverty learning torah lishmah!

    If we kicked the free loaders and loafers to the job market, we’d have more $ to give those lishmah!

    Look accross the green line, I always admire settlers who dress regularly and work and learn!!

    Shlomo2
    Shlomo2
    13 years ago

    Very nicely written piece.
    Yiyasher Kochecha.

    UseYourHead
    UseYourHead
    13 years ago

    Those who attack Rabbi Amsalem will have to answer for their actions. Historically, many great scholars were attacked in their days and became properly recognized only in historical context. I hope Rabbi Amsalem will not have to wait that long for the truth of his position to become apparent.

    13 years ago

    Very well written. Kol Akavod.
    It is also very weird that in an official Shas publication Rabbi Chaim Amsellem was compared (G od forbids) to Amalek.
    This proves in my opinion that Rabbi Amsellem is touching a very sensitive point which needs thoughts and actions

    MordechaiG
    MordechaiG
    13 years ago

    I am   a loss of words. The only words that are ringing in my ears is “bi’ikvusa dimishicha chutzpe yasgei”!

    Why do u distort the fact that rabbi amsalem is an apikores because of his views on geirus. See his view in this in an independent media outlet:
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/140764

    He has the hutzpa to say that geirus has to be modified!? The talmud and later on rabbi yuosef karo are of the opinion that geirim have to adhere to all “stringent jewish laws”!
    Amsalem says that that’s a fantasy?! So we should modify geirus laws? He argues with the talmud?! He is a straight out apikoires!

    Why do u just mention his opinion on yeshivos and kollellim which can be pronounced as legitimate.

    Mr. Amsalem’s view about yeshivas and kolellim we don’t know if they stem from the apikorsish view of “mai ahani lon rabonon” which according to chazal is an opinion to make someone an apikoires, or if his hashkafa is derived from true torah sources. But his views on geirus are for sure apikorses. So ur piece intentionally ignores the broader picture to protect an apikoires from the critic of gedoilei hador!
    Hevi zohir bigachalton!!!!!!
    I beg god u should do teshuva

    Yisroel
    Yisroel
    13 years ago

    Reply #2
    I agree you wrote a very nice piece. I too work and learn and I see how many Kollel people waste their time and impoverish their families while doing it. In the Five Towns, Long Island many the top proffessional lawyers and doctors learn at 4;30 AM before they go to work and at night after work These guys are not only top professionals but are top learners. I do not now of any Kollel man who is as knowledgable or learned as these doctors and lawyers. Their Torah knowledge is top rate. They could put any Kollel man to shame with their Torah knowledge.

    sane
    sane
    13 years ago

    I believe that the recent debate on this issue has emanated from the fact that the past 20 years or so has produced a generation of Kollel Yungerliet, but despite all these people purportedly learning diligently, there is a dearth of great scholarship. There seems to be an ever growing gap and, almost inverse proportion, between the growing Kollel population, and the diminishing population of world class Torah scholars. This leads one to contemplate where have we gone wrong. Perhaps, we must re-assess the Kollel system as it presently exists and fine tune it.

    Perhaps, a “lean mean machine” is better than an overbloated system.

    FredE
    FredE
    13 years ago

    I dont understand something… Doesnt Rav Yosef have a daughter, who with his support, started Charedi College in Jerusalem to teach marketable skills to yeshiva types? So apparently going to work for a living is not such a bad thing, no?

    Blogger
    Blogger
    13 years ago

    History coming back. Not too many years ago it was Harav Ovadiah saying that Geirus have to be more lenient. So the israeli jewish census should rise. Maybe and almost sure he has remorse about it, but Amsalem isn’t a Talmid Hamachkim Es Rabo, he’s just repeating what his Rav did a while ago. Maybe Harav Ovadia thinks that by cursing his Talmud all the way, he’ll be forgiven for what he did back then.

    Pragmatist
    Pragmatist
    13 years ago

    This has stirred up a hornet’s nest. With due respect to the most learned Rabbi Yosef, being learned in halacha does not translate into being an expert in politics. Besides, Rabbi Amsalem’s position is not unique – many great torah sages are of the same opinion. Rabbi Amsalem was elected by the people and it’s they that should decide his political fate. If they don’t like Rabbi Amsalem’s position then he won’t be reelected. The last time I checked, Israel is a democracy, not a theocracy. Too many Rabbi’s get involved in politics and it demeans their position.

    KevinTheMevin
    KevinTheMevin
    13 years ago

    The establishment cannot deal with the truth that’s all.

    themw13
    themw13
    13 years ago

    #13 :
    I can’t help but notice that you did not address a single one of #6 ’s points, only went on a long rant against R’ Ovadiah Yoseph Shlita, and against Chareidim in general.

    And btw, R’ Ovadiah Yoseph is one of the most well-known and respected poskim of today. If you don’t consider him daas Torah, who is your daas Torah?