Washington – The report is sure to reignite a long-simmering debate over public health and religious liberties: the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported on Thursday that 11 baby boys in New York City were infected with herpes between Nov. 2000 and Dec. 2011 following an ultra-Orthodox Jewish circumcision ritual called metzitzah b’peh — or oral suction — in which the mohel puts his mouth directly on the newborn’s circumcised penis and sucks away the blood.
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Click here for the full CDC report.
I’m glad the gov’t, local and fed, is finally growing a pair in regard to this issue.
In the report it is written that the NYC health dept conducted tests on the mohel and found he only had a “dormat HPSN1 case”
So hear is the 64k question if they had the mohel’s blood drawn WHY DIDN’T THEY DO A DNA TEST? which would of conclusively determend if it came from the mohel or from somwhere else.
In every case where there is an easy way to find out the truth but is not pursued, you have to wonder is there an alterior motive??
people, please don’t start screaming that this is anti-semitic. my own son picked up a serious infection following his bris that took 4 months and multiple rounds of medication to finally wipe out. newborns have a very immature immune system and have tremendous difficulty fighting off disease. my son’s entire groin exploded in puss filled sacs less than a week after having a bris with metzitza. i really do feel like the government has our interest at heart here, and is not trying to step on our religion. picture your own 7 lb baby being unable to fight off infection before you claim that this issue doesn’t need further discussion and investigation. if this minhag puts our babies in sakana, why would anyone defend it?
How is it that a mohel who has the slightest chance of infecting a kid doesnt himself feel the achrayos to check himself? Its all about money?
Jewish law prohibits any behavior that causes injury or death, even if the rate is very low (e.g one in 100,000). When the Jews wandered in the Wilderness for 40 years, they did not circumcise their babies at all, because it was considered dangerous for one to undergo circumcision when travelling.
The practice of suctioning the wound is not an essential part of the circumcision. The rabbis of the Talmud say that it serves some therapeutic benefit for the baby. It’s time for the rabbis of today acknowledge that this practice — although once thought to be beneficial for the baby — is now having the opposite effect. It’s time for the practice to be stopped.
it can not be that harm should result from a mitsvah the question is how do you tell that to the goy
Read the full CDC report. Read the statement that the risk is 24/100,000 with oral contact, and that surgical procedures should be performed under sterile conditions and that the risk with oral/genital contact is 3.4 times greater with oral contact than without.
1. Why dont they ban kissing? AIDS and other serious diseases can be transmitted thru saliva.
2. In 2012, they are discussing a 2004 case? No recent data at all?
3. Only 11to cases possibly due to metziza caused in 12 years. More children drown in back yards, killed by lightning, die in dentist chairs while doing a filling. Etc.
4. Easily identifiable if they took DNA.
The City and the CDC simply did not do their homework. They did not do any concrete studies on the issues but are repeating often used phrases without empirical data. And that even includes the few frum doctors in the community that are on the same bandwagon.
YIDDEN!!!!! Don’t give in to the Jew hating malchus that wants to destroy the jews and passes laws just to destroy the Torah (R”L). We must stand strong and, if necessary, sacrifice our precious, heilige, little neshumalehs for HaShems holy mitzvah of Metzizah B’Peh.
How is this “upsetting” the Torah?
As a mother, I want to know the names of the Mohels who have herpes. This should be public so we can protect our children.
So the “casualty” rate is approximately 1 each year. Of which even fewer have perished.
It’s indeed sad, and of course precautions should be taken whenever possible, but if they are suggesting we alter an age-old Kabbalistic custom based on those statistics, well then here’s a partial list of less important things that have had a greater statistical mortality rate that need to be discouraged or banned outright:
1) Bicycle riding even with a helmet.
2) Candies for children under 7. (Choking hazard.)
3) Amusement parks need to all be shut down.
4) Pogo sticks.
5) Swimming pools and any other bathing where water levels exceed 2 feet.
6) Skating. Including prohibiting skate-boards, roller-skates, ice-skates, Skis, etc.
7) Riding in vehicles, including with seat belts, must be limited to emergencies only!
8) And, (inspired by the N.Y.C. Mayor,) any parent that serves a child more than a certain amount of calories or fats within a designated time-period should be arrested for child-endangerment!
9) And the list goes on and on. I think that item # 247 is “Metzitzah B’peh”…
What is the percentage?
Eleven boys total in a little more than 11 years. How many total MBPs were there in that time period? And how does that percentage compare with, say, the probability of an asteroid colliding with earth?
So. Thousands and thousands of kids have a bries milah, 11 got infected, not even sure if it came from the mohel, 4 died, I didn’t think anything is wrong with metsitsa b’peh.
when a mohel sadly contracts a deadly disease ( HIV infection or Hepatitis B or C) from a new born bris, then this controversy will stop
the mohels will claim medical risk.(life threatening) and that will end this debate/
With change and honor, dignity is preserved.
The following proclamation was printed in sDei Chemed:
א ז ה ר ה ג ד ו ל ה
מאת הרבנים הגאונים הגדולים שליט”א דפעה״ק
ירושלם ת״ו ומשני בתי דינים מק״ק
ספרדים ואשכנזים יצ״ו
נח ׳ תשרי שנת התרס״א
ובהיות כי יצא איש אחד לשנות המציצה של ברית מילה לע ש ו ת ה בפיו ע״י כלי זכוכית וע״פ הדין המציצה היא רק בפ ה לבד ולא ע״י דבר אחר כלל, והיא נהוגה כן בקרב ישראל משנות דור ודור מרבותינו הקדמונים ז״ל. לכן באנו עתה להזהיר בכח תוה”ק כי אל יהיו שום איש ישראלי עוד
לע ש ו ת המציצה באופן אחר מכפ י הנהוג עד עתה בשום שינוי כל שהוא וכל המשנה ידו על התחתונה. וענוש יענש המוהל ואבי הבן וכל המסייעים לפרוץ גדרן ומנהגן של שראל.
ולהשומע יונעם ותבא ברכת טוב .
יעקב שאול אלישר חכם-באשי ירושת”ו
שמואל סלאנט
שנאור זלמן לאדיער, אב”ד דק”ק לובלין
I know some of the people who wrote this report and know that they are not interesting in banning bris milah and are not anti-semitic.
Why seek to limit/ban MBP? Because while there are other things that harm or kill kids, this one is controllable. Yes, kids do drown. That’s why commercial and public pools have rules (can’t regulate each private pool). The fact that kids die from other things does not mean we look away from something that we can do something about.
So why don’t they ban kissing? Because adults have a different immune system, because the mouth is a different environment, and it’s not an open wound.
“Didn’t do their homework” Well, read the report. It’s a rigorous, peer reviewed article that is honest about the assumptions and weaknesses.
Okay folks, according to the CDC, the risk is 0.00024 / 100 circumcisions. I don’t think it takes a brain surgeon to infer that the risk is lessened by alternative MBP, but the government has overstepped their bounds in this area. In the US, there are laws established to protect the right of citizens to the free practice of our religion. The Rabbis are the sole arbitrators of halacha. The responsibility for consequences lies with them.
I am a doctor and I would be laughed at by every sane person on this planet if I did this to my child.