New York – Triangle-K: Complaint About Kashrus Issues Of Hebrew National Outrageously False

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    New York – Outrageously false and defamatory allegations have been made by anonymous disgruntled individuals against Triangle-K’s strict rabbinical supervision of Hebrew National products in a complaint filed in court against the company that owns Hebrew National. Those who make the false allegations know full well that because their identities are concealed and their false statements are made in a court pleading, Triangle-K and its principals cannot sue them for defamation. The court complaint is filed on behalf of 11 consumers, none of whom claims to keep kosher, and all allege that they buy Hebrew National products only because they are represented to be “a higher quality product.”

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    If any person making such an allegation against Triangle-K has the integrity to do so in a manner that subjects him to a defamation lawsuit, Triangle-K and its principals will promptly institute proceedings against that person in a rabbinic court (“Beit Din”) and, if authorized by the rabbinic court, will file a defamation lawsuit against the person, company, or organization responsible for such slander and libel.

    The fact is that, contrary to the defamatory allegations, Triangle-K has substantially increased and improved the kashrut supervision on Hebrew National products since it began its supervision in 2004.

    1. Kashrut of the slaughtering operation. – Triangle-K instituted a process under which slaughtering is now done with a team of two or three shochtim constantly in the kill box (depending on each specific plant). Each shochet on the team slaughters not more than a prescribed quota of cattle, and the knife used for the shechitah is examined before and after every slaughter for possible nicks by the shochet or by another member of the team. The team continuously slaughters in rotation. This ensures that no shochet becomes weary and careless and that the knives are always free of nicks. In addition each shochet is required to have numerous knives ready to slaughter with. Contrary to the false anonymous allegation in the court complaint, Hebrew National products are consistently slaughtered in the prescribed manner required to be considered kosher.

    2. Examination of cattle before and after shechitah. – Only cattle that are free from physical defects and clean enough are slaughtered for kosher consumption. Triangle-K requires an examination of all cattle to insure that the clean cut necessary for kosher slaughter can be made and that the cattle can, after examination, be qualified for kosher consumption. In addition to prescribing a team of shochtim, Triangle-K instituted the requirement that there be two examiners (“bodkim”). One is a bodek pnim, who examines each animal’s lung while it is still in the animal. The other is a bodek chutz, who examines the animal’s lung after it has been removed and who inflates it. In some plants two bodkei pnim and two bodkei chutz are constantly on the line. Triangle-K represents that Hebrew National’s product is stam kosher, not glatt kosher. Its goal in providing the supervision to Hebrew National products is to make 100% stam kosher meat available to general consumers throughout the United States. Triangle-K also places numerous mashgichim at various points on the production line who make specific markings and simanim to ensure the correct labeling on the kosher-approved cattle.

    3. Examination of knives. – Because of the “team” requirement instituted by Triangle-K, the knives used in the slaughtering process are constantly inspected to ensure that they have no nicks. Knives are checked after each shechitah, and if a nick is found the animal is marked non-kosher. Each evening, all Rabbis and shochtim are also required to present their knives to the Rosh-Tsevet (Crew manager) for inspection to make sure the knives do not have any nicks. In addition, cattle are not certified as kosher if an air compressor gun was used on the animal prior to shechitah.

    4. Post-slaughter inspection. – All slaughtered cattle are carefully examined by a bodek pnim and by a bodek chutz. It is totally false and defamatory to say, as the court complaint declares anonymously, that the organs of animals used in Hebrew National products are “not consistently inspected after the slaughter.”

    5. Removal of blood. – Triangle-K drains all slaughtered cattles’ blood and washes it in accordance with the strictest standards of Jewish Law. Allegations that the soaking, salting and washing are inadequate are totally false. Allegations that the carcass is halachically cooked before it is salted are totally false.

    6. Disciplining of shochtim. – Triangle-K has required the dismissal of shochtim and bodkim who failed to comply with the high standards instituted by Triangle-K. It has never reprimanded or subjected to retaliatory measures any employee who objected to the “slaughter of dirty cows.” Nor has the Triangle-K asked any employee “to look the other way” if he saw a violation of kosher laws. Each plant’s head shochet and bodek reports to the Triangle-K on a weekly basis. The shochtim and bodkim are constantly tested and checked in surprise visits by Triangle-K for their knowledge of the halachic material and for their skills. Some shochtim and bodkim whose employment was terminated because of their failure to adhere to Triangle-K’s high standards may have initiated the false allegations on which the court complaint was based.

    We strongly re-affirm that the Triangle-K Kashrus symbol on Hebrew National products guarantees that the product is 100% strictly Kosher.

    The Triangle K Rabbinic team is always available to answer specific questions about any part of the process of the shechitha. We base our our strict kosher certification on the writings and decisions of the greatest scholars and poskim of the last few hundred years of Rabbinic Jewish law and literature.

    Rabbi Ralbag’s can be reached via email: [email protected], [email protected]


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    53 Comments
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    11 years ago

    What is the difference between stam and glatt kosher? I mean the actual definition and process.

    shredready
    shredready
    11 years ago

    Triangle-K is responding to the accusation in a better way than SMR did to his accusers

    ModernLakewoodGuy
    ModernLakewoodGuy
    11 years ago

    What is the biblical halachic source that requires the lungs to be checked in greater detail than how it is currently done with “stam” Kosher?

    11 years ago

    Against Triangle K I would say that it is false to think that those who make the allegations against them will have their identities protected. Triangle K’s attorneys should be asking for copies of the affidavits, and the identities will surely come out eventually, and subject these people to possible damage claims and perjury charges.

    In favor of Triangle K I would say to all those who speak against them, that they are not that bad. While they do hold with certain kulas on grape juice that are not generally held today, they are not out of left field. I had heard years ago that they had certain oil plants down south that did not have a mashgiach t’midi. I don’t know if this is true, but for example I don’t think I would have a problem with their hashgacha on raisins.

    Nobody really frum eats Hebrew National anyway, nor ate it before it was under the triangle K. There are plenty of choices. But for those in the boondocks they may be a life saver. There are still plenty of places where you cannot get anything else, or where you can, but it is from a store open on Shabbos and owned by a Jew.

    Why the big fuss?

    Forshayer
    Forshayer
    11 years ago

    What is the upshot here? Are they Kosher or not? Is there such a thing as in between kosher when it comes to meat?

    BaruchGershom
    BaruchGershom
    11 years ago

    The big problem for the plaintiffs will be showing that they suffered some harm — a Constitutional requirement for standing to sue. The article here says that none of the 11 named plaintiffs keeps kosher. So I can just see their depositions or interrogatory questions focusing on their buying habits and their food consumption out of the home, their religious beliefs, and why they bought Hebrew National in the first place. If they argue that they were harmed because they paid more because it was kosher, defense counsel will quiz them about how much more they would pay for hot dogs that were all-beef and not ground from various organs that would otherwise be sold for dog food. Plaintiffs can’t really claim deception, either, because Hebrew National hasn’t been recommended for its kashrut since the days it had stores in New York that were open on Saturdays.

    concerned_Jew
    concerned_Jew
    11 years ago

    so would hebrew national be acceptable to orthodox jews for consumption and considered 100% kosher?

    not_suprised
    not_suprised
    11 years ago

    So seemingly conflicting. I have heard local Vaad Rabonim certifying local butchers, but won’t purchase that meat for themselves.
    Here, we have kosher for Ashkenazim but trief for Sefardim.
    When the laws of kashrus were given to us, did we receive two sets of laws? I have the same problem with kitniyos. I know how/that gezairos become law. But I am a Jew and just want to eat kosher?

    11 years ago

    “Stam kosher” for fleish has the same halachaic significance as “cholov stam” (aka poor yidden’s cholov yisroel). As Shakespeare once said, “treifus by any other name, is still treifus”….

    sasregener
    sasregener
    11 years ago

    Rabbi Ralbag Is a Talmid Chacham who get a bad rep. Talk to him for 3 minutes and you will se how ehrlich he is. He has a yeshivisha upbringing but he is his own person. As a frum yeshivisha person myself I have no problem with his hasgachas.

    11 years ago

    I once heard a tape from Rabbi Blumenkrantz zt’l, who said that in the early 1900s, the kosher slaughter of meat was controlled by a mafia-like union, which refused to follow Halachik guidelines. It was basically treif. The only way the frum community was able to replace these Shochtim/Mashgichim and avoid union problems, was by introducing a new product “Glatt Meat”. The term Glatt really meant “truly kosher” to distinguish it from the stuff being sold in the “Bosor Bosor” butcher-shops that were owned and operated by Mechalelei Shabbos. It later was redefined to mean “Sircha-free”, but now it means Mehudar, as opposed to plain kosher which is more reliant on Kulos, etc. Sircha-free in the cow population is only about a 10% yield.

    11 years ago

    It all comes down to whether there are enough Chassideshe mashgichim to go around for the mass market needs of frum yidden who demand the highest level of hashgacha. Sadly, there are not. While there are some other Litvish and Sephardeshe hashgachos that might be adequate, Hebrew National is not able to affiliate with those organizations. Rav Ralbag is an ehrliche yid from a highly respected yeshivish background and provides a valued service to a company that serves the mass market need for yidden who want a “kosher product” but whose hashkafah doesn’t require the gold standard of a Chassideshe hashgacha which has been proven over time to be beyond challenge.

    11 years ago

    I stopped recognizing the Triangle K as an acceptable hechsher for myself many years ago when I saw that hechsher label on bread that was milchig. The bread was not baked to appear different (which is the only heter to bake milchig bread). My judgment was that if basic Shulchan Aruch was being violated for this, why should I consider the standards on anything else to be consistent with halacha? This was quite some years ago, and things may have changed. But much of my life, the impression I had was that the symbol was not associated for me with kashrus.

    HaNavon
    HaNavon
    11 years ago

    Heeb Nash is kosher, end of sentence. The truth is that it’s only called ‘non glatt’ because of some theoretical heterim that Rav Ralbag allows, but are almost never implemented, due to the high volume of shchitah, and the fact that Hebrew National is owned by a non kosher parent company that uses the carcasses of anything with a sheilah in a different, treife facility, with no financial loss.
    The heterim that are theoretically used are for ‘koleif’, which is a type of scab on the lung, but the Aruch HaShulchan AND R Moshe Feinshtein were matir, but was once the subject of a machloikes achronim.

    You must also remember that ‘glatt kosher’ isn’t the true glatt anyway! The OU allows sirchos that would be assur for a sephardi to eat because it isn’t chalak Beis Yoseif.

    kehati
    kehati
    11 years ago

    When I was growing up in the 50’s, we were taught that only about 10% of beheimos that were schected could qualify as “glatt”. Is this still true? Or have the numbers been reversed – 90% are “glatt” ? If not , where does all the meat sold as “glatt” come from? Are millions of beheimos schechted each year?

    11 years ago

    let’s get one thing straightt……… The ‘glatt’ that you are eating today is NOT glatt. The rabbonim have lowered their standard’s so much in order to fill the demand that EVEN BAIS YOSEF IS NOT PASSABLE FOR REAL GLATT. If you don’t believe this, then call up the various rabbonim and ask them their shitas.

    sighber
    sighber
    11 years ago

    How can the people suing be kept anonymous from the group that they are suing? How are they alleging that the product is inferior because it is supervised by the triangle-k? If the people who are not suing do not keep kosher, what are they trying to accomplish with this lawsuit? Are they perhaps working for another organization that wants to get the supervision? Are they former workers who were fired because they did not want to adhere to the triangle-k’s standards?