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New York - TIME Magazine Reports On The Role Of Charedim In “The Battle For Jerusalem”

Published on: August 7, 2012 01:21 PM
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New York - There is a new battle being waged over the future of Jerusalem, but not between the usual Israeli and Palestinian players. According to TIME Magazine, (http://ti.me/TcEpA2) in their cover story out this week entitled “The Battle for Jerusalem,” this time, the warring factions are the ultra-orthodox or “charedi” Jews and the secular Israelis.

TIME author Karl Vick writes, “Since 1967, Jerusalem has become a resolutely Jewish city, so much so that the central question preoccupying residents today is not how it might be divided with Palestinians – for they are widely ignored of late – but rather just how religiously conservative the city can become while remaining a place most Israeli Jews could imagine living.” The article states that the ultra-orthodox have only recently made a “Lazarus-like comeback,” one which “threatens the fabric of Israel, or as they see it, points the way to the nation’s salvation.”

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Two Israeli men, one ultra-orthodox and the other secular were followed and interviewed by TIME for their story. Both men live and own apartments in a neighborhood called Kiryat Yovel which is home to about 800,000 people. But it has become less of a home for secular Israelis like Noam Pinchasi and more of a home to charedim like Elhanan Gibli. TIME estimates that approximately 20,000 secular Israelis have moved away from Kiryat Yovel in the past seven years, bringing the total percent of secular Israelis in the area to just 31. Meanwhile, the number of ultra-Orthodox Jews, also at 31 percent, is increasing.

“It’s a flight much of Israel is watching with concern bordering on alarm,” TIME writes. “The ultra-orthodox are the fastest growing population in a Jewish state long governed by seculars but lately grappling with just how Jewish it wants to be.”

When Gibli moved in to Kiryat Yovel, he was the first charedi in his building. Now charedim reside in four out of eight apartments. Across Israel, charedim now comprise 10% of the population and 21% of the enrollment in elementary schools. The birthrate of charedim is three to four times more than that of secular Israelis, and demographers estimate that in 20 years, one in five Israelis will be charedi. 

TIME references the collapse of Netanyahu’s government coalition and attributes the breakdown to the issue of how to address the “question of what to do about the ultra-Orthodox.” It says the Kadima party left Netanyahu’s coalition when he refused to force religious youth into service in the Israeli military.

In an unabashedly critical paragraph, Vick writes, “Draft avoidance is just one privilege. The ultra-Orthodox, whose hermetic lifestyle may be based on the preoccupation with the next world but whose political clout defines savvy in this one, also enjoys subsidies for child care, education and housing. The community’s power only grows with its numbers. Uncontained, it stands to fundamentally alter Israel’s identity.”

Noam Pinchasi says he is at war with the “blacks” – a reference to ultra-Orthodox Jews – over land in Israel. He and a crew of similar-minded citizens have been arrested for stirring up trouble in charedi neighborhoods by placing posters of nude paintings on the doors of synagogues. Pinchasi said he is sending a message to the charedim, “This is not like Ramot Eshkol, Neve Yaakov, Maalot Dafna,” referring to neighborhoods in Jerusalem which were once identified as secular, but have since become “black.” Pinchasi began his movement after mixed swimming was banned during the day at neighborhood pools, and when charedim set up makeshift synagogues in homes and stores. Pinchasi is also aggrieved that residents of Kiryat Yovel want their own eruv even though there is an eruv that runs around all of Jerusalem.

Charedim are now “conquering neighborhoods designated for others,” according to TIME. When a religious man offered to buy the home of Pinchasi’s neighbor, saying, “We’ll give you a good price because we want you out of here,” Pinchasi told the man, “I have barbeques during Shabbat. Pork. We’re going to play music. We smoke. And we bring prostitutes here.” The religious man bought the house anyway because of the tight housing market. Pinchasi is quick to point out that he is not an atheist, that his family lights shabbos candles and makes kiddush on Friday nights. Yet, he identifies principally as an Israeli and not as a Jew.

“The bookish ultra-Orthodox have their militants, too. . .” writes TIME. “Downtown billboards in Israel no longer feature women; advertisers fear defacement, or worse, boycotts. On public buses, ultra-Orthodx women sit in the back. . .ultra-Orthodox men spit on an 8-year-old girl on her way to school, calling her a “whore” for her long-sleeved clothes, which were not conservative enough for their standards.”

In response to reports that secular Israelis are coordinating efforts to buy property in Kiryat Yovel and re-claim the area, Yitzchak Pindrus, the charedi vice mayor of Jerusalem said, “Be serious. . .This is the reality in Jerusalem. Demography is geography.”



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Read Comments (28)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Aug 07, 2012 at 02:19 PM ShmuelG Says:

While we are blessed with large families, the secular Israelis lead the world in the rate of abortions. Obviously, there will be more and more of us and fewer and fewer of them. How then they can complain that "Uncontained, it stands to fundamentally alter Israel’s identity?” Boggles my mind.

Incidentally, how does this despicable character want to "contain" demographics? Force us to submit to abortions, communist style, so that we are more like seculars? I know for sure this poor excuse for a man, who places posters of nude paintings on the doors of shuls, is not planning to have a large family of his own. Which is the only good thing about him: he is not likely to procreate.

2

 Aug 07, 2012 at 02:37 PM Anonymous Says:

looks like a great article. is there anywhere i can read the full article without a subscription for time.com?

3

 Aug 07, 2012 at 02:40 PM 5TResident Says:

I wouldn't trust TIME to write objectively about anything remotely involving Jews.

4

 Aug 07, 2012 at 02:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
ShmuelG Says:

While we are blessed with large families, the secular Israelis lead the world in the rate of abortions. Obviously, there will be more and more of us and fewer and fewer of them. How then they can complain that "Uncontained, it stands to fundamentally alter Israel’s identity?” Boggles my mind.

Incidentally, how does this despicable character want to "contain" demographics? Force us to submit to abortions, communist style, so that we are more like seculars? I know for sure this poor excuse for a man, who places posters of nude paintings on the doors of shuls, is not planning to have a large family of his own. Which is the only good thing about him: he is not likely to procreate.

What are your sources that Israel leads the world in abortions?

5

 Aug 07, 2012 at 02:50 PM Babishka Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

looks like a great article. is there anywhere i can read the full article without a subscription for time.com?

The article you are reading is a VIN article, in order to read the Time article you have to buy the print magazine (or schedule a dentist appt!).

6

 Aug 07, 2012 at 01:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Pinchasi will cut off his nose to spite his face. Many Jews who want to live secular go outside Israel to make money. This "man" is just a nut case

7

 Aug 07, 2012 at 02:52 PM jsjcbs Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

looks like a great article. is there anywhere i can read the full article without a subscription for time.com?

You can buy the individual magazine from any newsstand.

8

 Aug 07, 2012 at 02:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
ShmuelG Says:

While we are blessed with large families, the secular Israelis lead the world in the rate of abortions. Obviously, there will be more and more of us and fewer and fewer of them. How then they can complain that "Uncontained, it stands to fundamentally alter Israel’s identity?” Boggles my mind.

Incidentally, how does this despicable character want to "contain" demographics? Force us to submit to abortions, communist style, so that we are more like seculars? I know for sure this poor excuse for a man, who places posters of nude paintings on the doors of shuls, is not planning to have a large family of his own. Which is the only good thing about him: he is not likely to procreate.

When the average Israeli reads the hate filled messages of you, it brings only more bad feelings against us. Do us all a favor and don't bring us any ayen hora!

9

 Aug 07, 2012 at 03:07 PM LebidikYankel Says:

I was in a park today in a "reclaimed" area. There were many frum families and a young secular couple or two. There was absolutely no friction, the secular people were treated with complete respect.

10

 Aug 07, 2012 at 03:20 PM observer Says:

Reply to #3  
5TResident Says:

I wouldn't trust TIME to write objectively about anything remotely involving Jews.

it is not the times it is an orgenised p..r. to defime religes yewish the naming chreidi ultro urtodox and fucosing on some extrme elements in obserwent spiting on an 8 year old girl and elaborating on it this standart " julios streicher"aproch to hate compain "paroh " "bolok" etc. wehere efraite of kein jirbi it is natural but is HATE and the TIMEmagasin is perticipating in it wilingli or naivli..the total shomrei tora in izrael iz over 50% the % they quta is to down grade there is more it than thay wrote nor ICI AJCU VSIFOR DABRI DOR VLOY JUKIM KI IMONI KEIL grein and bier it

11

 Aug 07, 2012 at 03:17 PM esther Says:

Reply to #1  
ShmuelG Says:

While we are blessed with large families, the secular Israelis lead the world in the rate of abortions. Obviously, there will be more and more of us and fewer and fewer of them. How then they can complain that "Uncontained, it stands to fundamentally alter Israel’s identity?” Boggles my mind.

Incidentally, how does this despicable character want to "contain" demographics? Force us to submit to abortions, communist style, so that we are more like seculars? I know for sure this poor excuse for a man, who places posters of nude paintings on the doors of shuls, is not planning to have a large family of his own. Which is the only good thing about him: he is not likely to procreate.

the good thing about him is that he's a jew,just exactly like you.he has a pintele yid which can be awakened at any time.something is obviously being stirred inside him for him to act like this.

12

 Aug 07, 2012 at 03:10 PM Kzler Says:

Reply to #1  
ShmuelG Says:

While we are blessed with large families, the secular Israelis lead the world in the rate of abortions. Obviously, there will be more and more of us and fewer and fewer of them. How then they can complain that "Uncontained, it stands to fundamentally alter Israel’s identity?” Boggles my mind.

Incidentally, how does this despicable character want to "contain" demographics? Force us to submit to abortions, communist style, so that we are more like seculars? I know for sure this poor excuse for a man, who places posters of nude paintings on the doors of shuls, is not planning to have a large family of his own. Which is the only good thing about him: he is not likely to procreate.

It boggles my mind that a man named Kraus gave an interview to "Der Spiegel" a German weekly magazine and lambasted Israel which he does not recognize. His children acccording to the article were involved in incest. He of course wears full garb and his wife dresses a la Taliban mode.In order fulfill his complete -un-recognition of Israel he uses his neighbor's trash can for his trash. This was reported in a German magazine from which I quote, regarding the veracity argue with the Spiegel. These large families bis 120 are they supported by the "chilonim freie "government ,yes or no.

13

 Aug 07, 2012 at 05:03 PM Facts1 Says:

The continued war against religious Jews in the Media.

14

 Aug 07, 2012 at 05:21 PM HolyMoe Says:

My advice to Noam Pinchasi and those who think like him is to fight fire with fire.

Let their men marry only women.
Let them do this while they are young.
Let them be fruitful and multiply making sure to give their large broods an education that is " secular LaMehadrin".
Let them buy homes and move into Bne Brak, Meah Shearim, and Kiryat Sefer.

That'll teach those Charedi fanatics not to start up with these enlightened elites.

15

 Aug 07, 2012 at 06:57 PM ShmuelG Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

What are your sources that Israel leads the world in abortions?

I use world-leading for shorthand. Technically it's not accurate. No, Israel's rate of abortion is not a match to Kazakhstan, Russia or China. But it is by far surpasses civilized countries of the Western World, including the United States if you exclude black and hispanic women. It is not that hard to look up.

16

 Aug 07, 2012 at 10:18 PM Robert Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

looks like a great article. is there anywhere i can read the full article without a subscription for time.com?

just purchase a single issue at the news stand

17

 Aug 07, 2012 at 11:02 PM esther Says:

Reply to #15  
ShmuelG Says:

I use world-leading for shorthand. Technically it's not accurate. No, Israel's rate of abortion is not a match to Kazakhstan, Russia or China. But it is by far surpasses civilized countries of the Western World, including the United States if you exclude black and hispanic women. It is not that hard to look up.

"more of us,fewer of them".when are you and all your pals going to learn it's "we" as in we're all jews. the you use accounting acrobatics to prove your point. shmuel,what have you done to actually help another jew lately?

18

 Aug 08, 2012 at 12:40 AM Unasked_Question Says:

Can any of you answer me please...

Let's assume that we -Chareidim!- "win" and we are the majority in Israel:
Are we going to have Doctors, engineers, taxi drivers, lawyers ?
and let's not even think "who will serve in the military" ?

It's time to admit that we are in deep trouble.
We adopted a lifestyle that excludes any form of education.
We face the world with no means of earning a living, yet we all must live on a very expensive lifestyle.

Does anyone really thing that a country where Charedim are a majority is sustainable ?

The "everyone hates us" mentality will not solve any problem.

19

 Aug 08, 2012 at 09:33 AM Anominous Says:

Reply to #18  
Unasked_Question Says:

Can any of you answer me please...

Let's assume that we -Chareidim!- "win" and we are the majority in Israel:
Are we going to have Doctors, engineers, taxi drivers, lawyers ?
and let's not even think "who will serve in the military" ?

It's time to admit that we are in deep trouble.
We adopted a lifestyle that excludes any form of education.
We face the world with no means of earning a living, yet we all must live on a very expensive lifestyle.

Does anyone really thing that a country where Charedim are a majority is sustainable ?

The "everyone hates us" mentality will not solve any problem.

I can't believe you are calling "we - Chareidim"... The more people are committed to Torah and its values, the more Hashem will give us His special supervision including removing all sickness, war and any problems. If Hashem is with us, the land will become prosperous beyond any world standard and money will be very plentiful. For example, the recent discovery of oil and gas fields in Israel, which are the largest discoveries in the last 10 years.

20

 Aug 08, 2012 at 09:37 AM shredready Says:

Reply to #1  
ShmuelG Says:

While we are blessed with large families, the secular Israelis lead the world in the rate of abortions. Obviously, there will be more and more of us and fewer and fewer of them. How then they can complain that "Uncontained, it stands to fundamentally alter Israel’s identity?” Boggles my mind.

Incidentally, how does this despicable character want to "contain" demographics? Force us to submit to abortions, communist style, so that we are more like seculars? I know for sure this poor excuse for a man, who places posters of nude paintings on the doors of shuls, is not planning to have a large family of his own. Which is the only good thing about him: he is not likely to procreate.

no but they can submit you and them to pay for your lifestyle and not make others pay

by cutting off the benefits.

once they have to pay for themselves for housing and supporting all the children lets see how well they do? If they can support all their kids great if not have less kids.

their lifestyle is only viable because others who work support them

they are not self supporting.

lets see what happens when they have to -pay the bills like the people who work and pay the bills out for their own pockets

21

 Aug 08, 2012 at 10:30 AM Anominous Says:

Chazal bring in a story of a king who build a beautiful palance with a very nice orchard. It lasted for many years and one day a tsadik passed by and rested under the tree. Chazal say that the whole purpose of the big palace and orchard was just for the purpose of that tsadik to rest under the tree once in a lifetime.

All the blessings of the secular Israelis and the rest of the world come for the purpose of Bnei Torah to be able to somehow be able to benefit form it. All the achievements of the secular Israelis, or those less religious, is for the purpose of perpetuating God's will and the Torah. Why did the secular Israelis deserve to win the war against the arabs in a miraculous way? Do they deserve that God do miracles for them more than for the religious arabs??? No, but it was for the sake of the benefit that Torah observant Jews will have later in the future. The secular Jews don't deserve more Divine providence than the rest of the world. All of their super achievements in technology is for the sake of God's glory, which is ultimately the fulfillment of Torah to its fullest.

22

 Aug 08, 2012 at 11:13 AM Ploni Says:

Reply to #15  
ShmuelG Says:

I use world-leading for shorthand. Technically it's not accurate. No, Israel's rate of abortion is not a match to Kazakhstan, Russia or China. But it is by far surpasses civilized countries of the Western World, including the United States if you exclude black and hispanic women. It is not that hard to look up.

*** "I use world-leading for shorthand"

That's the way a self-important Baltimore Jew admits he is bone idle and too lazy to find a better adjective.

*** "Technically it's not accurate."

That's the way a self-important Baltimore Jew admits that he is lying through his teeth.

*** "if you exclude black and hispanic women"

That's the way a self-important Baltimore Jew tries to cover for his innate racism. He can't even be bothered to use a capital 'H' for Hispanic.

*** "It is not that hard to look up."

That's the way a self-important Baltimore Jew proves his own laziness. He could not be bothered to check his facts.

23

 Aug 08, 2012 at 01:14 PM A N Other Says:

Reply to #21  
Anominous Says:

Chazal bring in a story of a king who build a beautiful palance with a very nice orchard. It lasted for many years and one day a tsadik passed by and rested under the tree. Chazal say that the whole purpose of the big palace and orchard was just for the purpose of that tsadik to rest under the tree once in a lifetime.

All the blessings of the secular Israelis and the rest of the world come for the purpose of Bnei Torah to be able to somehow be able to benefit form it. All the achievements of the secular Israelis, or those less religious, is for the purpose of perpetuating God's will and the Torah. Why did the secular Israelis deserve to win the war against the arabs in a miraculous way? Do they deserve that God do miracles for them more than for the religious arabs??? No, but it was for the sake of the benefit that Torah observant Jews will have later in the future. The secular Jews don't deserve more Divine providence than the rest of the world. All of their super achievements in technology is for the sake of God's glory, which is ultimately the fulfillment of Torah to its fullest.

"The secular Jews don't deserve more Divine providence than the rest of the world."

But you, our dear Anominous, do I suppose?

Everything that you have written just goes to prove the cynicism and the chutzpah with which the charedim among us are only too happy to leach off the work and the effort put in by their chiloni "underlings".

24

 Aug 08, 2012 at 01:33 PM Anominous Says:

Reply to #23  
A N Other Says:

"The secular Jews don't deserve more Divine providence than the rest of the world."

But you, our dear Anominous, do I suppose?

Everything that you have written just goes to prove the cynicism and the chutzpah with which the charedim among us are only too happy to leach off the work and the effort put in by their chiloni "underlings".

I, who write message 21, am working full time in a bank here in Manhattan, but manage to learn 3 hours of Torah a day.

25

 Aug 08, 2012 at 01:48 PM ShmuelG Says:

Reply to #22  
Ploni Says:

*** "I use world-leading for shorthand"

That's the way a self-important Baltimore Jew admits he is bone idle and too lazy to find a better adjective.

*** "Technically it's not accurate."

That's the way a self-important Baltimore Jew admits that he is lying through his teeth.

*** "if you exclude black and hispanic women"

That's the way a self-important Baltimore Jew tries to cover for his innate racism. He can't even be bothered to use a capital 'H' for Hispanic.

*** "It is not that hard to look up."

That's the way a self-important Baltimore Jew proves his own laziness. He could not be bothered to check his facts.

Self-important? Or important enough for you to be so manifestly obsessed with?

26

 Aug 08, 2012 at 02:20 PM Etz Hazayit Says:

Reply to #24  
Anominous Says:

I, who write message 21, am working full time in a bank here in Manhattan, but manage to learn 3 hours of Torah a day.

What has that got do with anything?

Which do you want us to praise you for? The fact that you learn, or the fact that you earn?

Millions of people all over the world, admittedly not all ehrliche yidden but you cannot ignore the fact that goyim also combine learning with labor, manage to do exactly the same as you.

27

 Aug 08, 2012 at 04:06 PM Anominous Says:

People like you who put the chareidim down are not thinking allright. You say "the fact that goyim also combine learning with labor"...point to me 3 gentiles you personally know that you think are keeping all the 7 mitsvos properly and spend every day learning about Hashem. I agree that there are some, but it is a very, very minority. I am not in the chassidishe chareidi circles but most of them are keeping very far from the internet and its shmutz and spend tons of time learning Torah and are very focused on doing Hashem's will. They keep themselves closed from society to try to in their best ways serve Hashem.

In Malachi chapter 3 we have "Then shall ye again discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not." When that day comes, hopefully soon, we are going to find where the Chareidi community stands and where the others stand. Maybe some of them should be working to prevent hillul Hashem, but I am sure that everyone will see on that day that the world stands on the merit of Torah, and that fault will no longer be viewed as a fault, but as a merit.

28

 Aug 08, 2012 at 07:13 PM Etz Hazayit Says:

Reply to #27  
Anominous Says:

People like you who put the chareidim down are not thinking allright. You say "the fact that goyim also combine learning with labor"...point to me 3 gentiles you personally know that you think are keeping all the 7 mitsvos properly and spend every day learning about Hashem. I agree that there are some, but it is a very, very minority. I am not in the chassidishe chareidi circles but most of them are keeping very far from the internet and its shmutz and spend tons of time learning Torah and are very focused on doing Hashem's will. They keep themselves closed from society to try to in their best ways serve Hashem.

In Malachi chapter 3 we have "Then shall ye again discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not." When that day comes, hopefully soon, we are going to find where the Chareidi community stands and where the others stand. Maybe some of them should be working to prevent hillul Hashem, but I am sure that everyone will see on that day that the world stands on the merit of Torah, and that fault will no longer be viewed as a fault, but as a merit.

Why are you so self-defensive about something that is as natural, and as automatic, as breathing, Anominious? Do you honestly believe that you are the only person in the whole wide world who manages to combine two activities in the course of his or her day?

If you are really insistent that I "point to [you] 3 gentiles [I] personally know that [I] think are keeping all the 7 mitsvos properly and spend every day learning about Hashem" I will refer you to:

1. the Pope in Rome,

2. the Archbishop of Canterbury in England, and

3. the Dalai Lama in India.

But what difference does that make? You came here with your message #24, trumpeting to us all that "I, who write message 21, am working full time in a bank here in Manhattan, but manage to learn 3 hours of Torah a day." Az mah?

Do you want some sort of charedi Nobel Prize for going to work? Life is not like that Anominious: learn if you want to - but working to support yourself is THE NORM.

Or, conversely, are you seeking some sort of yichus for not taking charity?

29

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