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New York - Satmars More Wary of Secular Authorities Following Heavy Sentence in Weberman Case

Published on: January 26, 2013 08:29 PM
Last updated on: January 26, 2013 09:09 PM
By: VIN News Staff
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New York - Since a 103-year sentence was handed down last week in the sexual abuse case involving 54-year-old, unlicensed therapist Nechemya Weberman, many have said that the Satmar community was deliberately singled out for punishment, The Wall Street Journal reports (http://on.wsj.com/Y7DV0b).

“It’s not a good number. The 103-year sentence is going to discourage future victims from coming forward because nobody wants to have that on their conscience their entire life,” said Gary Schlesinger who heads a charity with ties to Rabbi Aaron Teitelbaum. “Sometimes you can have a person rehabilitated for a much shorter time.”

According to the Brooklyn district attorney’s office, 113 people have been arrested since the Kol Tzedek (Voice of Justice) program was launched in 2009 to help Orthodox victims of sexual abuse. The program has resulted in a 70% conviction rate, including the Weberman case. An additional 40 cases were investigated, but could not be prosecuted because of the statute of limitations.

Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, vice president of Agudath Israel of America, a nonprofit with links to Brooklyn’s Satmar community said the DA’s office should have handled the case more “delicately.”

“Many people felt it wasn’t as if Mr. Weberman was on trial, it was as if the community was on trial,” Zwiebel said.

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“The reaction I’ve heard from many is maybe we shouldn’t be cooperating with law-enforcement authorities.” He added that while he supported the idea of dealing with sex abuse in the Orthodox Jewish community, he feared that the 103-year sentence might be seen as “the system is rigged against Hasidic Jews.”

However, prosecutors said they consider the sentence a “significant victory.”

“I hope that people can see that if they come forward, that there are measures in place to help,” said Rhonnie Jaus, chief of the Brooklyn district attorney’s office sex-crimes division.

Orthodox Jewish Assemblyman Dov Hikind, who has regularly spoken about sexual abuse in the ultra-Orthodox community on his weekly radio show program, said he would have preferred a lesser sentence for Weberman. “As horrible as all of this, I would have been happier if it would not have been 103,” said Hikind “This almost says to people who already have a chip on their shoulder that the Orthodox community isn’t getting a fair shake that they’re right.”

Last month, Ezra Friedlander, CEO of the public relations firm The Friedlander Group, wrote in the Forward that he viewed Weberman’s guilty verdict as “an opportunity to confront abuse once and for all.” But now he says the heavy sentence imposed against Weberman has even “fair-minded” people in the community asking if the system “is stacked against us.”

“The community looks at a 100-year-sentence and says, ‘Whoa, murderers don’t get anywhere near 100 years,’” Friedlander told the Forward (http://bit.ly/VfbCKR).

Shortly after the sentencing, people took to blogs and Twitter to discuss the 103-year sentence.  Many compared Weberman’s sentence to the one received by Levi Aron, the man who kidnapped and murdered 8-year-old Leiby Kletzky in Borough Park, Brooklyn in 2011. Levi took a plea deal and received a sentence of only 40 years to life.

Brooklyn DA Hynes has said his office asked for the maximum sentence for Weberman knowing that the sentence would probably be reduced to 50 years on appeal, a move which is typical in sex abuse cases.



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1

 Jan 26, 2013 at 08:37 PM ChareidiMan Says:

Catch 22!

I am one that beleives that he deserves every day of the 103 year sentence, i however also agree that people will refrain from reporting because of this big number.

On the other side though, i think, people will think twice before they do a crime knowing that there are no short cuts anymore

2

 Jan 26, 2013 at 08:37 PM vitriol Says:

Look you cannot have your cake and eat it. If you want somebody prosecuted to the "full extent of the law" then you do not have the authority to handcuff the legal system to suit your needs, Besides, who the heck cares what people like Hikind would have 'preferred'. This is not about him but about the victim. With the maximum sentence meted out, this girl does not have to worry if and when he will get out and seek revenge which Weberman has probably thought about and will be thinking about. Besides, you cannot rehabilitate someone who victimizes the downtrodden and troubled premeditatedly. Weberman is right where he belongs unfortunately.

3

 Jan 26, 2013 at 08:42 PM How you spell CHILLUL HASHEM Says:

Huh? I simply don't get the benefit from appearing to again be protecting molesters by decrying this sentence.

4

 Jan 26, 2013 at 08:42 PM bubii Says:

Thats impossible how can they be more wary of the authorities then they already are cant be.

5

 Jan 26, 2013 at 08:49 PM Anonymous Says:

If this long sentence protects just one of our children, the sentencing is appropriate. He can no longer hurt our children OR our grandchildren. Let future molesters think about this and get some help, even though pedaphilia can never be cured.

6

 Jan 26, 2013 at 08:50 PM Anonymous Says:

What kind of links does Agudah have to Satmar? Both being ultra orthodox, but that is about it.

7

 Jan 26, 2013 at 08:51 PM bubii Says:

This outcome of weberman getting 103 years is the direct result of them the satmerers letting molestations go for over 2 decades they have no one to blame but themselfs they knew theese things were happening in their midst but they chose not to do anything about it ,this sentence is a way punishment for the past indifference that the leadership showed for the innocent helpless children who were molested over 2 decades so lets not cry now .

8

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:10 PM Brooklynhocker Says:

And Priests that molest boys get how many years?

9

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:14 PM Chossid Says:

Around 15 percent of Americans were molested as a child. (according tothe journalistresource - I cannot post the link).
Based on that number, thousands of children in Brooklyn are molested each year.
Almost all molesters get away with no convictions at all.

If your a Chossid you are treated very different, in the news, in court, and in prison.

10

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:16 PM Non Jewish News Says:

I contacted various Non Jewish News stations based in NY,
I asked them why do they single out to report A "hassidic" molester more than all the other thousands of molesters in the City.

One response was "We report any molester that reaches our attention"

???!!!!

11

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:19 PM Halacha Says:

You don't need to read Gemara or Shulchan Aruch:

'Chumash' states that if a man convices a twelve year old girl and "molests her" - he must marry her for life. (or pay a Knas in certain circumstances).

If we would live in certain Muslim countries, would we support cutting off the hands of a stealer?
Does our Torah have any say in the matter?

12

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:22 PM Yida Says:

Ok it a lesson, when will he be able to practice his lesson. after 103 years ?

13

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:22 PM Thoughtful Says:

Forget about the "length" of the sentence... The "verdect" itself was based purely on anti semitism... That's not to say that he's innocent....

But there's no question, if this was not a satmar chasidic jew, he wouldn't have been found guilty in the first place.. Again, I'm not saying he's innocent, but that his orthodox jewishness is what caused them to convict...

14

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:24 PM Geulah Says:

54 counts, 103 years, do the math. This wasn't an over the top sentence. As far as priests are concerned wait, they're turn is coming.

15

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:25 PM CSLMoish Says:

Reply to #7  
bubii Says:

This outcome of weberman getting 103 years is the direct result of them the satmerers letting molestations go for over 2 decades they have no one to blame but themselfs they knew theese things were happening in their midst but they chose not to do anything about it ,this sentence is a way punishment for the past indifference that the leadership showed for the innocent helpless children who were molested over 2 decades so lets not cry now .

We do not punish one for the sins of many. And the justice system is the most unbalanced thing I've ever seen! The prosecutions ability to pile on multiple counts of essentialy the same crime is a travesty. The torahs rule of "Kum lei M'derabe minei" is perfectly just.

16

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:27 PM Non Jew Says:

If Weberman would be a Non Jew

1- He would not get any news coverage.
2- Mr. Hynes would not be involved in every step of the way.
3- The Jury would probably dismiss the case do to lack of evidence.
4- If he would be an unlucky man and be convicted by the Jury on a few counts - the Judge would probably give him between a month and a year - since he is a first time offender and there was no physical rape involved.

People that rape a girl and then kille the girl usually get away with 10-25 years.

Not a "Chassid"!

17

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:27 PM brooklynjew Says:

Rabbi's and jewish leaders are not protecting molestors!
Rather, they are againts the unfair sentences issued by judges all across the country, when it comes to jews!

Rubashkin...weberman...polard...
Samet...

18

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:31 PM Justice? Says:

According to this artlcle:

Every single time any Jewish boy or girl accused a Jewish man of molesting them - Every single time the Jewish man was convicted.
Unless the accuser reached statue of limitations I.E is too old.

Is this Justice?
Now you have a good way of taking Nekama on your principle who punished you or threw you out of the school!!

19

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:32 PM haltkup Says:

why is everyone so convinced that hes guilty ? her word against his no evidence .dont give me the jury found him guilty argument ,that only applies when the jury finds the evidence to be substantial , not when the jury is convinced to believe one story more than the other .its a disgrace to the justice system .and shame on his lawyers ,they should be disbarred for losing this case

20

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:44 PM Anonymous Says:

50 yr on appeal means parole after 20, no?

21

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:50 PM ExpatriateOwl Says:

Anonymous [#6] says: "What kind of links does Agudah have to Satmar? Both being ultra orthodox, but that is about it."


Ever since Rabbi Pam stepped down and Rabbi Perlow assumed the nominal head of state position, The Agudath Israel has been trying to cater to the chassidic rebbes in general (Rabbi Perlow being one himself) and the Satmar Rebbe in particular.

Now that there are two Satmar rebbes whose relationship with one another is quite contentious, this places the Agudah in the position of having to pick postures shared by both, lest they alienate either the Zalies or the Aronies. A long sentence imposed upon anyone with a beard who wears a streiml or a Borsolino, whether Zalie or Aronie or Square or Ger or anything else, fills the bill very nicely.

22

 Jan 26, 2013 at 09:51 PM Yossel Says:

Reply to #8  
Brooklynhocker Says:

And Priests that molest boys get how many years?

A quick web search I conducted indicated that priests average a sentence of 6 to 10 years with the longest I saw being 20 years. Recently in California, a priest who's a molester was sentenced to just 1 year of counseling.

23

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:08 PM yaakov doe Says:

Reply to #19  
haltkup Says:

why is everyone so convinced that hes guilty ? her word against his no evidence .dont give me the jury found him guilty argument ,that only applies when the jury finds the evidence to be substantial , not when the jury is convinced to believe one story more than the other .its a disgrace to the justice system .and shame on his lawyers ,they should be disbarred for losing this case

He may well be innocent but the fact that he had "counseling" sessions behind locked doors and traveled with the girl, neither of which is acceptable even in the goysha world, aided in his conviction. The jurors found the girl and her counselor more credible. The sentence of 103 years is a little long since a full lifetime can only be 120 years.

24

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:09 PM clear-thinker Says:

Reply to #22  
Yossel Says:

A quick web search I conducted indicated that priests average a sentence of 6 to 10 years with the longest I saw being 20 years. Recently in California, a priest who's a molester was sentenced to just 1 year of counseling.

The most famous of these cases was a priest named John Goeghan. He was convicted and sentenced to ten years which was the maximum possible. New York law is obviously different from Mass.
Before anyone starts thinking about how unfair this is. John Goeghan was murdered in prison

25

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:18 PM brooklynjew Says:

Post this messege on every media outlet...

Rabbis and jewish leaders are not defending molestors!
But are againts unfair sentences by judges across the country againts jews...

Polard..samet..weberman..rubashkin..etc..

26

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:19 PM clear-thinker Says:

Reply to #16  
Non Jew Says:

If Weberman would be a Non Jew

1- He would not get any news coverage.
2- Mr. Hynes would not be involved in every step of the way.
3- The Jury would probably dismiss the case do to lack of evidence.
4- If he would be an unlucky man and be convicted by the Jury on a few counts - the Judge would probably give him between a month and a year - since he is a first time offender and there was no physical rape involved.

People that rape a girl and then kille the girl usually get away with 10-25 years.

Not a "Chassid"!

I do not know where you get your great knowledge. Perhaps you should go back and check what the law is before sounding like you know anything.
People who kill do not get 10-25 years. In New York anyone convicted of murder must receive a sentence where he is sentenced to 15 years to life through 25 years to life. This means that he will have to serve the minimum before seeing the parole board, and that board can keep the convict in prison for the rest of his life.
During a rape/ murder. The defendant, if the facts fit the statute, may be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.
What does your comment "there was no physical rape involved" mean? Weberman was convicted of numerous counts of forcible rape. There is no forcible rape in New York where a person can get between a month and a year.
If you wish to play the victim do so. Just do so without making things up.

27

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:19 PM Anonymous Says:

To those who advocate letting him out many years earlier, how much earlier?

Also, will you volunteer your children to be near him?

28

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:23 PM esther Says:

Reply to #3  
How you spell CHILLUL HASHEM Says:

Huh? I simply don't get the benefit from appearing to again be protecting molesters by decrying this sentence.

you're so right.for G-d's sake why cant people,especially agudah ,choose their battles. a child molester got too many years;boo hoo.

29

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:25 PM CHAZAQ Says:

The satmar community teased the authorities giving the impression that they were above the law! First the highly publisized half a million fundraiser for webermam. Then the intimidation of the victims family and bribery attempt. And then the chutzpa of taking pictures in the court room. This is what happens !!!!! When you're a wise guy, The book gets thrown at you ...with the maximum handed down.

30

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:26 PM esther Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

What kind of links does Agudah have to Satmar? Both being ultra orthodox, but that is about it.

agudah advocates for orthodox interest in general however on this issue as with their general stance on reporting abuse,they're more then just wrong.they represent yidishkait in the media and in washington and their stance here makes us all look terrible.

31

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:29 PM esther Says:

Reply to #10  
Non Jewish News Says:

I contacted various Non Jewish News stations based in NY,
I asked them why do they single out to report A "hassidic" molester more than all the other thousands of molesters in the City.

One response was "We report any molester that reaches our attention"

???!!!!

we stand out,why don't you get that? we want to be different and that's exactly how we're seen. different creates news.

32

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:29 PM Priest Says:

Reply to #8  
Brooklynhocker Says:

And Priests that molest boys get how many years?

Priests never get married to a woman.
They therefore have a reputation of molesting children.

News and courts think that Religious Jews are the same.

33

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:31 PM esther Says:

Reply to #13  
Thoughtful Says:

Forget about the "length" of the sentence... The "verdect" itself was based purely on anti semitism... That's not to say that he's innocent....

But there's no question, if this was not a satmar chasidic jew, he wouldn't have been found guilty in the first place.. Again, I'm not saying he's innocent, but that his orthodox jewishness is what caused them to convict...

and on what do you and all your like minded friends base that conclusion.there aren't any goyim sitting in prison for molestation?

34

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:34 PM To Yossel Says:

Reply to #22  
Yossel Says:

A quick web search I conducted indicated that priests average a sentence of 6 to 10 years with the longest I saw being 20 years. Recently in California, a priest who's a molester was sentenced to just 1 year of counseling.

Most priests get away with counseling on first offense.
When the News catches on - it becomes 6-10 for major cases.
Vast majority don't make it to the news and don't face prison.
A Chassid (who looks weird in the eyes of a Jury) gets much longer.

35

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:36 PM thegame Says:

If he took a plea deal and admitted his guilt he would have received a much lighter sentence. He made the victim get up on the stand and cry, choosing to yet again, "play dirty", so he deserved everything that was coming at him.

"True evil lies not in the depraved act of the one, but in the silence of the many." Martin Luther King Jr.

36

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:37 PM Huh? Says:

Try tshuva.
Everything is part of the plan of H' yisburach.
He received the punishment because of avairos, including gaivah and of course yichud.
betokhen and tshuva.

37

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:41 PM Insider Says:

Walter Meyerle just got 900 yrs for molesting an underage girl. He does not live in Williamsburg, nor is he a choosid.

38

 Jan 26, 2013 at 10:48 PM insider Says:

Weberman turned down a plea-deal for 5 years. He could of been out in two and half. he brought untold shame on Satmar. He is a disgrace. He was secluded with the victim for hours alone behind locked doors. Yichud? He never heard of it. There's absolutely no defence. He caused the single BIGGEST chilul haShem in history. The Rebono shel Olam would never of allowed a 103 year sentence if he was innocent. You know it. I know it. And so does everyone else, including every supposed Weberman supporter, including his own wife (nebech). Sadly, that's the simple truth.

39

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:00 PM X29 Rider Says:

What does Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zweibel mean by the case should have been handled more delicately? Meaning he should have gotten a slap on the wrist?

40

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:12 PM Canadian Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

If this long sentence protects just one of our children, the sentencing is appropriate. He can no longer hurt our children OR our grandchildren. Let future molesters think about this and get some help, even though pedaphilia can never be cured.

If it protects another potential victim of his that might be just. If this lengthy sentence is to prevent abuse by others I am not sure this is fair to him. Why must he serve a life-sentence to prevent others from committing a crime.

41

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:19 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #13  
Thoughtful Says:

Forget about the "length" of the sentence... The "verdect" itself was based purely on anti semitism... That's not to say that he's innocent....

But there's no question, if this was not a satmar chasidic jew, he wouldn't have been found guilty in the first place.. Again, I'm not saying he's innocent, but that his orthodox jewishness is what caused them to convict...

What caused them to convict is
1) he is a menuval
2) he is a liar
3) he is a ganuv
4) he repeatedly molested her 3 times a week for 4 hours sessions at a time over a period of 3 years.
5) because she was only 12 when he started
6) because he told her that he had his eyes on her when she was even younger
7) because his defense team did more harm than good
8) because both the Judge and Jury saw through his lies
9) it is never a good idea to try and turn the victim into the defendant
10) because they put the victim on the stand for 4 days and gave the jury a chance to get to know her and believe her.
11) He disrespected the court as much as his religion and didn't take the rules or laws seriously just as he didn't take the rules of Yichud, Moiser or even sitting next to his scantly clad female attorney.

This is what caused them to convict, because he was guilty. The judge gave him a harsh sentence because he deserved it, and it is no harsher than the sentence he pronounced on his victims.

42

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:25 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #15  
CSLMoish Says:

We do not punish one for the sins of many. And the justice system is the most unbalanced thing I've ever seen! The prosecutions ability to pile on multiple counts of essentialy the same crime is a travesty. The torahs rule of "Kum lei M'derabe minei" is perfectly just.

Wow, really? How unbalanced is it? From my calculations 3 times a week for 3 years is more than 59 times. So I don't believe that there were enough charges against him, so no it is NOT the same crime. Each and every time he touched her was a separate crime. Each and every act of sexual molestation was another crime. Each time he locked the door was another crime. Each time he told her she was garbage was another crime. Need I go on? He claimed to be a therapist, he represented to her parents that they can trust him. That is what the Torah calls Ganeivas Daas. The acts that he did to her the Torah calls an "abomination". Do you really want to go through the Torah to see ALL the aveiros he has committed?

43

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:28 PM Non Jew Says:

Reply to #26  
clear-thinker Says:

I do not know where you get your great knowledge. Perhaps you should go back and check what the law is before sounding like you know anything.
People who kill do not get 10-25 years. In New York anyone convicted of murder must receive a sentence where he is sentenced to 15 years to life through 25 years to life. This means that he will have to serve the minimum before seeing the parole board, and that board can keep the convict in prison for the rest of his life.
During a rape/ murder. The defendant, if the facts fit the statute, may be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.
What does your comment "there was no physical rape involved" mean? Weberman was convicted of numerous counts of forcible rape. There is no forcible rape in New York where a person can get between a month and a year.
If you wish to play the victim do so. Just do so without making things up.

Excuse me for writing 10-25, I meant 15-25 years.
If a Chassid would commit a murder the news would not stop on that.

44

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:31 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #16  
Non Jew Says:

If Weberman would be a Non Jew

1- He would not get any news coverage.
2- Mr. Hynes would not be involved in every step of the way.
3- The Jury would probably dismiss the case do to lack of evidence.
4- If he would be an unlucky man and be convicted by the Jury on a few counts - the Judge would probably give him between a month and a year - since he is a first time offender and there was no physical rape involved.

People that rape a girl and then kille the girl usually get away with 10-25 years.

Not a "Chassid"!

If Weberman would be a Non Jew, each and everyone of you would come out in support of this victim and Yell Chai V'Kayam on the evil of such a man who could take advantage of a 12 year old, who could practice without a license, who could do such vile and disgusting things, who could turn her parents against her, etc., etc., etc.

You are all a bunch of hypocrites. If Weberman were a NON-Jew, he would have to have police protection 24/7 because the entire jewish population would convene on him until he would take his own life, and that would include ALL those who were so loudly silent like the Agudah and all the other Rabbinical organizations like the OU, the National Council of Young Israel and other Chassidic communities. If Weberman were a Non-Jew he would be lucky to get away with his life.

45

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
insider Says:

Weberman turned down a plea-deal for 5 years. He could of been out in two and half. he brought untold shame on Satmar. He is a disgrace. He was secluded with the victim for hours alone behind locked doors. Yichud? He never heard of it. There's absolutely no defence. He caused the single BIGGEST chilul haShem in history. The Rebono shel Olam would never of allowed a 103 year sentence if he was innocent. You know it. I know it. And so does everyone else, including every supposed Weberman supporter, including his own wife (nebech). Sadly, that's the simple truth.

Are you saying that a Tzaddik was never sentenced to prison?
What about the 10 Harugei Malchus? Were they Not tzadikim?
Gemara states that we live in a dreamland that things are upside down.

46

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:35 PM DNA Says:

Reply to #41  
Sherree Says:

What caused them to convict is
1) he is a menuval
2) he is a liar
3) he is a ganuv
4) he repeatedly molested her 3 times a week for 4 hours sessions at a time over a period of 3 years.
5) because she was only 12 when he started
6) because he told her that he had his eyes on her when she was even younger
7) because his defense team did more harm than good
8) because both the Judge and Jury saw through his lies
9) it is never a good idea to try and turn the victim into the defendant
10) because they put the victim on the stand for 4 days and gave the jury a chance to get to know her and believe her.
11) He disrespected the court as much as his religion and didn't take the rules or laws seriously just as he didn't take the rules of Yichud, Moiser or even sitting next to his scantly clad female attorney.

This is what caused them to convict, because he was guilty. The judge gave him a harsh sentence because he deserved it, and it is no harsher than the sentence he pronounced on his victims.

Did she had DNA to proof that he did had contact with him ?

She could cry and scream nothing is like bringing a real DNA proof from a doctor.

You cannot convict a person by a girls word.

47

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:36 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #22  
Yossel Says:

A quick web search I conducted indicated that priests average a sentence of 6 to 10 years with the longest I saw being 20 years. Recently in California, a priest who's a molester was sentenced to just 1 year of counseling.

Would that be because they took a deal?

48

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:36 PM credibility problem Says:

Reply to #19  
haltkup Says:

why is everyone so convinced that hes guilty ? her word against his no evidence .dont give me the jury found him guilty argument ,that only applies when the jury finds the evidence to be substantial , not when the jury is convinced to believe one story more than the other .its a disgrace to the justice system .and shame on his lawyers ,they should be disbarred for losing this case

I wasn't on the jury but I think his credibility suffered when he admitted that he ran a sham charity. He collected donations for poor families to get help paying tuition, he speent it on personal expenses including lingerie for unknown persons. This makes him appear like drek. It does not prove if he did this crime but does hurt his image and credibility.

49

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
insider Says:

Weberman turned down a plea-deal for 5 years. He could of been out in two and half. he brought untold shame on Satmar. He is a disgrace. He was secluded with the victim for hours alone behind locked doors. Yichud? He never heard of it. There's absolutely no defence. He caused the single BIGGEST chilul haShem in history. The Rebono shel Olam would never of allowed a 103 year sentence if he was innocent. You know it. I know it. And so does everyone else, including every supposed Weberman supporter, including his own wife (nebech). Sadly, that's the simple truth.

Yichud with an unmarried Girl was a law that began in the Times of Dovid Hamelech.

Dovid Hamelech himself warmed his body with the 12 year old Avishag Hashunamis without even marying her.

Although non Jews allow Yichud, I don't understand why the frume Satmars do allow people to have Yichud with a small girl? Even if the Rabbis don't support a 103 year sentence - they should place strickter rules on Yichud just as they do on tznius. I would recomend them to begin using women to counsel troubled girls.

50

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
insider Says:

Weberman turned down a plea-deal for 5 years. He could of been out in two and half. he brought untold shame on Satmar. He is a disgrace. He was secluded with the victim for hours alone behind locked doors. Yichud? He never heard of it. There's absolutely no defence. He caused the single BIGGEST chilul haShem in history. The Rebono shel Olam would never of allowed a 103 year sentence if he was innocent. You know it. I know it. And so does everyone else, including every supposed Weberman supporter, including his own wife (nebech). Sadly, that's the simple truth.

To my understanding Weberman did not cause any chilul Hashem at all.
On the contrary
It was the victim that made sure to contact every single news station each step of the way.

51

 Jan 26, 2013 at 11:59 PM Chaim! Says:

Reply to #13  
Thoughtful Says:

Forget about the "length" of the sentence... The "verdect" itself was based purely on anti semitism... That's not to say that he's innocent....

But there's no question, if this was not a satmar chasidic jew, he wouldn't have been found guilty in the first place.. Again, I'm not saying he's innocent, but that his orthodox jewishness is what caused them to convict...

Thoughtful Says: Says:
“ Forget about the "length" of the sentence... The "verdect" itself was based purely on anti semitism... That's not to say that he's innocent....

What a load of nonsense!

If it was a Chinese Irish or African American found lying on the stand and acting the way Wbmn did it would end the same way!

52

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:08 AM Queenbee Says:

Reply to #48  
credibility problem Says:

I wasn't on the jury but I think his credibility suffered when he admitted that he ran a sham charity. He collected donations for poor families to get help paying tuition, he speent it on personal expenses including lingerie for unknown persons. This makes him appear like drek. It does not prove if he did this crime but does hurt his image and credibility.

I am not taking sides. Just pointing out that the "LINGERIE" that everyone and the media was so busy with was actually a purchase at the Neuschloss Robe Store on 13'th Ave and 49 st. which is called "The Lingerie Shop" We all now that this store sells mostly Robes and Nightgowns. But of course the media is not interested to know that. The store is called "The LINGERIE Shop" and that's enough to get the media going.

53

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:11 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
ExpatriateOwl Says:

Anonymous [#6] says: "What kind of links does Agudah have to Satmar? Both being ultra orthodox, but that is about it."


Ever since Rabbi Pam stepped down and Rabbi Perlow assumed the nominal head of state position, The Agudath Israel has been trying to cater to the chassidic rebbes in general (Rabbi Perlow being one himself) and the Satmar Rebbe in particular.

Now that there are two Satmar rebbes whose relationship with one another is quite contentious, this places the Agudah in the position of having to pick postures shared by both, lest they alienate either the Zalies or the Aronies. A long sentence imposed upon anyone with a beard who wears a streiml or a Borsolino, whether Zalie or Aronie or Square or Ger or anything else, fills the bill very nicely.

Not quite following - I think Rav Pam ztl had more in common with Satmar than the Novominsker does, with all due respect, I think the Novominsker is a nice Rebbe, but again Satmar is not part of Agudah. Satmar doesnt even do Daf Yomi just to demonstrate that they have no connection to Agudah (and the fact that they have their own daily daf and amud programs shows that this is the only reason). They used to be more opposed to Agudah, now they are just peacefully and respectfully separate from them.

54

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
thegame Says:

If he took a plea deal and admitted his guilt he would have received a much lighter sentence. He made the victim get up on the stand and cry, choosing to yet again, "play dirty", so he deserved everything that was coming at him.

"True evil lies not in the depraved act of the one, but in the silence of the many." Martin Luther King Jr.

Why should an innocent man perjure himself by pleading guilty to a horrible crime he was framed for? If he had done it, of course he would have plead guilty.

55

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:15 AM clear-thinker Says:

Reply to #43  
Non Jew Says:

Excuse me for writing 10-25, I meant 15-25 years.
If a Chassid would commit a murder the news would not stop on that.

You still forgot the "to life". If you are as knowledgeable as you claim, you know that noone convicted of murder gets out after the minimum.
If a Chosid commits a murder? We had that and he was sentenced to 40 years. To have someone in a Jewish community convicted of murder is a terrible thing. Of course some would get on this website a plead for mercy. Lets remember Florida.

56

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:16 AM Yossel Says:

Reply to #47  
Sherree Says:

Would that be because they took a deal?

Not necessarily. Some were jury convictions. Even if a deal was offered, one year of counseling w/o prison time seems way too lenient.

57

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:19 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
credibility problem Says:

I wasn't on the jury but I think his credibility suffered when he admitted that he ran a sham charity. He collected donations for poor families to get help paying tuition, he speent it on personal expenses including lingerie for unknown persons. This makes him appear like drek. It does not prove if he did this crime but does hurt his image and credibility.

that had nothing to do with the case, was purposely misused by the prosecution to mislead the jury. They probably thought a bp lingerie shop is like the goyishe lingerie shops. This is why the Constitution promises a jury of peers, and his constitutional rights were infringed upon because these were not his peers. They had no understanding of what they were dealing with. A frum jury would have asked a question like did he have unfiltered internet or were there any receipts for dirty dvds, etc. that would have proven whether he did it or not to a jury of his peers. Since there is no proof of either, I assume the girl is lying.

58

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:22 AM clear-thinker Says:

Reply to #40  
Canadian Says:

If it protects another potential victim of his that might be just. If this lengthy sentence is to prevent abuse by others I am not sure this is fair to him. Why must he serve a life-sentence to prevent others from committing a crime.

He is not serving a lenthy sentence to prevent others from convicting a crime. However in New York, one of the considerations a judge uses in sentencing is whether the sentence would act as a deterrence to others.

59

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:40 AM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #16  
Non Jew Says:

If Weberman would be a Non Jew

1- He would not get any news coverage.
2- Mr. Hynes would not be involved in every step of the way.
3- The Jury would probably dismiss the case do to lack of evidence.
4- If he would be an unlucky man and be convicted by the Jury on a few counts - the Judge would probably give him between a month and a year - since he is a first time offender and there was no physical rape involved.

People that rape a girl and then kille the girl usually get away with 10-25 years.

Not a "Chassid"!

It is self-evident that you’re espousing your assumption as a fact; you cannot advance even one logic argument to substantiate your diatribe.

60

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:46 AM If Weberman was a non Jew Says:

Reply to #44  
Sherree Says:

If Weberman would be a Non Jew, each and everyone of you would come out in support of this victim and Yell Chai V'Kayam on the evil of such a man who could take advantage of a 12 year old, who could practice without a license, who could do such vile and disgusting things, who could turn her parents against her, etc., etc., etc.

You are all a bunch of hypocrites. If Weberman were a NON-Jew, he would have to have police protection 24/7 because the entire jewish population would convene on him until he would take his own life, and that would include ALL those who were so loudly silent like the Agudah and all the other Rabbinical organizations like the OU, the National Council of Young Israel and other Chassidic communities. If Weberman were a Non-Jew he would be lucky to get away with his life.

If Weberman was a non Jew he would probably now be walking the streets required to go for counseling.

Sherree - have you any idea how many Non Jewish molestors there are in this country?
Last I checked - there are millions of pedephiles, are they all lucky to get away with their life?
A very low percentage get crazy long sentences

61

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:52 AM mamamaven Says:

Reply to #46  
DNA Says:

Did she had DNA to proof that he did had contact with him ?

She could cry and scream nothing is like bringing a real DNA proof from a doctor.

You cannot convict a person by a girls word.

DNA evidence has only been admissible in court for around 20 years. Do you think there were no rape or molestation conviction before this? What exactly do you think they were based on?

DNA can strengthen a case or can exonerate a suspect, but a case is rarely made on DNA alone. It is pure ignorance to claim that the absence of DNA means there is no case.

62

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:10 AM Barsechel Says:

There is ni justice in Americanto give 103 years to this guy shows that justice here is a mockery its as simple as that, the result of this verdict is that no one ever from the hasidic community will cooperate with the DA
Shame on the system and jewish politicians who have allowed this to happen

63

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:14 AM chassid Says:

If the heiliger Satmar Rebbe cared about Jewish children, he would get up at the next tisch and loudly and publicly thank Charles Hynes and Nuchem Rosenberg for their courage in defending and protecting OUR precious zisse boys and girls from molestation. But unfortunately, we don't have any great hopes that will happen. All we hear is the leadership condemning those who care about our precious neshamos. We need a big yeshua when our leaders teach that black is white, and white is black, and the chassidim follow them like lambs without brains. .

64

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:21 AM SOme Good Advice Says:

Reply to #45  
Anonymous Says:

Are you saying that a Tzaddik was never sentenced to prison?
What about the 10 Harugei Malchus? Were they Not tzadikim?
Gemara states that we live in a dreamland that things are upside down.

Please invite this Weberman tzadik to live in your house, and leave him alone in the house to counsel your teenage daughters.

65

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:25 AM jkier74 Says:

To No. 21: Rav Pam ZT"L was never the head of Agudah. The Novominsker Rebbe was appointed the head after the passing of Rav Sherer ZT"L. Please know your facts. The Agudah serves all of Klal Yisroel and fights for yiddishkeit here in America for everyone.

66

 Jan 27, 2013 at 02:08 AM Greener Says:

Reply to #54  
Anonymous Says:

Why should an innocent man perjure himself by pleading guilty to a horrible crime he was framed for? If he had done it, of course he would have plead guilty.

You made my day #54! "If he had one it, of course he would have plead guilty." I plotzed laughing.

67

 Jan 27, 2013 at 02:26 AM Anonymous Says:

The sentence of 103 years jail time came as a shock to all of us.
As a reporter wrote in 'The Forward', (no great friend of the chasidim) this case was based totally on the victim's say-so, and much that the defense wanted to use was not permitted at all. Weberman never had a chance.
I am not in any way claiming that Weberman is innocent, but as others wrote earlier, there seems to be a pattern of frum Jews receiving far harsher sentences than others found guilty of similar crimes.
This case will, unfortunately, cause many victims of abuse to hold back from reporting to the authorities because nobody wants to live with the guilt of totally destroying a whole family's life.
Of course, due to the harsh sentence meted out, the victim's family will also, sadly, pay a steep price in the community for causing such massive damage.
I wish I knew a way to punish the abusers who prey on our children, and at the same time show them some mercy.

68

 Jan 27, 2013 at 02:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

that had nothing to do with the case, was purposely misused by the prosecution to mislead the jury. They probably thought a bp lingerie shop is like the goyishe lingerie shops. This is why the Constitution promises a jury of peers, and his constitutional rights were infringed upon because these were not his peers. They had no understanding of what they were dealing with. A frum jury would have asked a question like did he have unfiltered internet or were there any receipts for dirty dvds, etc. that would have proven whether he did it or not to a jury of his peers. Since there is no proof of either, I assume the girl is lying.

Weberman was NOT convicted because he purchased things from a lingerie store. He was convicted because he lied about everything he said on the stand, and the girl was grilled for four days and found to be telling the truth. And by the way, just because someone uses an unfiltered internet or has receipts for dirty dvds would NOT have proven his guilt. Baruch Hashem you were NOT on the jury.

69

 Jan 27, 2013 at 03:30 AM Chaim! Says:

Reply to #52  
Queenbee Says:

I am not taking sides. Just pointing out that the "LINGERIE" that everyone and the media was so busy with was actually a purchase at the Neuschloss Robe Store on 13'th Ave and 49 st. which is called "The Lingerie Shop" We all now that this store sells mostly Robes and Nightgowns. But of course the media is not interested to know that. The store is called "The LINGERIE Shop" and that's enough to get the media going.

Reply to #52 Hide Quote
Queenbee Says: Says:
“ I am not taking sides. Just pointing out that the "LINGERIE" that everyone and the media was so busy with was actually a purchase at the Neuschloss Robe Store on 13'th Ave and 49 st. which is called "The Lingerie Shop" We all now that this store sells mostly Robes and Nightgowns. But of course the media is not interested to know that. The store is called "The LINGERIE Shop" and that's enough to get the media going. ”

If it was "only" his wife or daughter that could have made that Lingerie purchase why didn't Weberman offer that explanation on the stand and come clean, instead of freezing like an icicle?
I see no valid reason in the world why he would walk away looking like a Shtick Dreck if he had a valid excuse otherwise!

70

 Jan 27, 2013 at 03:34 AM esther Says:

Reply to #62  
Barsechel Says:

There is ni justice in Americanto give 103 years to this guy shows that justice here is a mockery its as simple as that, the result of this verdict is that no one ever from the hasidic community will cooperate with the DA
Shame on the system and jewish politicians who have allowed this to happen

halevai every child molester and rapist would receive such a sentence.our country would be a far better and safer place.

71

 Jan 27, 2013 at 04:06 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
bubii Says:

This outcome of weberman getting 103 years is the direct result of them the satmerers letting molestations go for over 2 decades they have no one to blame but themselfs they knew theese things were happening in their midst but they chose not to do anything about it ,this sentence is a way punishment for the past indifference that the leadership showed for the innocent helpless children who were molested over 2 decades so lets not cry now .

Oh yeah? and what exactly are YOUR connections to Satmar that you know so much about what goes on there in secret - so much so that people who've lived within that system their whole life do not know?

72

 Jan 27, 2013 at 04:07 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
Yida Says:

Ok it a lesson, when will he be able to practice his lesson. after 103 years ?

'Justice' is not about teaching a lesson. It is about revenge. Think about it.

73

 Jan 27, 2013 at 04:18 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
clear-thinker Says:

I do not know where you get your great knowledge. Perhaps you should go back and check what the law is before sounding like you know anything.
People who kill do not get 10-25 years. In New York anyone convicted of murder must receive a sentence where he is sentenced to 15 years to life through 25 years to life. This means that he will have to serve the minimum before seeing the parole board, and that board can keep the convict in prison for the rest of his life.
During a rape/ murder. The defendant, if the facts fit the statute, may be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.
What does your comment "there was no physical rape involved" mean? Weberman was convicted of numerous counts of forcible rape. There is no forcible rape in New York where a person can get between a month and a year.
If you wish to play the victim do so. Just do so without making things up.

Could you provide a source for oyur contention that he was convicted of rape? I have only been able to find that eh was convicted of abuse - that is: not rape.

74

 Jan 27, 2013 at 06:36 AM The_Beadle Says:

To those complaining that other paedophiles and rapists don't get such lengthy sentences - putting aside the actual details of each case for now, the answer is to complain that the others didn't get the punishment that is due them, not complain that your man didn't get away his crime.

Secondly, last October, a mother in Texas got 99 years for gluing her 2 year old child's hands.

75

 Jan 27, 2013 at 07:46 AM How do you spell CHILLUL HASHEM? Says:

Reply to #63  
chassid Says:

If the heiliger Satmar Rebbe cared about Jewish children, he would get up at the next tisch and loudly and publicly thank Charles Hynes and Nuchem Rosenberg for their courage in defending and protecting OUR precious zisse boys and girls from molestation. But unfortunately, we don't have any great hopes that will happen. All we hear is the leadership condemning those who care about our precious neshamos. We need a big yeshua when our leaders teach that black is white, and white is black, and the chassidim follow them like lambs without brains. .

The ongoing denial by leaders (some self-appointed) of our community is a chillul HaShem.

Why do we rush to defend a menuval? Why do tolerate those who attack our precious children... and both victims and family members for following Rav Elyashiv ztl's directive in reporting a heinous crime?

76

 Jan 27, 2013 at 07:57 AM UseYourHead Says:

When the greater part of the Satmar community makes a big deal of rallying behind the defendant and providing vast sums of money for his legal costs, they are indeed putting themselves on trial as a community. Is that so hard to comprehend?

77

 Jan 27, 2013 at 08:01 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Brooklynhocker Says:

And Priests that molest boys get how many years?

what difference does that make. was weberman a priest?

78

 Jan 27, 2013 at 08:02 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Chossid Says:

Around 15 percent of Americans were molested as a child. (according tothe journalistresource - I cannot post the link).
Based on that number, thousands of children in Brooklyn are molested each year.
Almost all molesters get away with no convictions at all.

If your a Chossid you are treated very different, in the news, in court, and in prison.

So? if that is the case, all the more reason not to commit crimes.

it is a sad day when allegedly-frum Jews are more afraid of the legal system than afraid of G-d to answer for their crimes.

79

 Jan 27, 2013 at 08:03 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
Yida Says:

Ok it a lesson, when will he be able to practice his lesson. after 103 years ?

simply put, YES.

80

 Jan 27, 2013 at 08:09 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
Sherree Says:

What caused them to convict is
1) he is a menuval
2) he is a liar
3) he is a ganuv
4) he repeatedly molested her 3 times a week for 4 hours sessions at a time over a period of 3 years.
5) because she was only 12 when he started
6) because he told her that he had his eyes on her when she was even younger
7) because his defense team did more harm than good
8) because both the Judge and Jury saw through his lies
9) it is never a good idea to try and turn the victim into the defendant
10) because they put the victim on the stand for 4 days and gave the jury a chance to get to know her and believe her.
11) He disrespected the court as much as his religion and didn't take the rules or laws seriously just as he didn't take the rules of Yichud, Moiser or even sitting next to his scantly clad female attorney.

This is what caused them to convict, because he was guilty. The judge gave him a harsh sentence because he deserved it, and it is no harsher than the sentence he pronounced on his victims.

Sherre, weber was guilty, and should have received every day of what he got.

but unless you can prove your allegations, you have no business posting them as proof that he ddeserved what he got. your unsubstantiated claims, if brought in court, would have set him free.

81

 Jan 27, 2013 at 08:40 AM Moone Says:

Reply to #69  
Chaim! Says:

Reply to #52 Hide Quote
Queenbee Says: Says:
“ I am not taking sides. Just pointing out that the "LINGERIE" that everyone and the media was so busy with was actually a purchase at the Neuschloss Robe Store on 13'th Ave and 49 st. which is called "The Lingerie Shop" We all now that this store sells mostly Robes and Nightgowns. But of course the media is not interested to know that. The store is called "The LINGERIE Shop" and that's enough to get the media going. ”

If it was "only" his wife or daughter that could have made that Lingerie purchase why didn't Weberman offer that explanation on the stand and come clean, instead of freezing like an icicle?
I see no valid reason in the world why he would walk away looking like a Shtick Dreck if he had a valid excuse otherwise!

I can understand why he didn't instantly solve the connection between a lingerie shop and his wife's rope store. But nevertheless, a bad image was applied even among supporters, and help shape their mind.

82

 Jan 27, 2013 at 08:51 AM Moone Says:

Reply to #63  
chassid Says:

If the heiliger Satmar Rebbe cared about Jewish children, he would get up at the next tisch and loudly and publicly thank Charles Hynes and Nuchem Rosenberg for their courage in defending and protecting OUR precious zisse boys and girls from molestation. But unfortunately, we don't have any great hopes that will happen. All we hear is the leadership condemning those who care about our precious neshamos. We need a big yeshua when our leaders teach that black is white, and white is black, and the chassidim follow them like lambs without brains. .

"...next tisch and loudly and publicly thank Charles Hynes and Nuchem Rosenberg... ...and the satmar chassidim follow him like lambs..."

Not only don't you know Charles Hynes and Nuchem Rosenberg, but you don't even know basic satmar culture.

If you'd know Rosenberg, you'd understand why he isn't thanked, if you look at Hynes' history, you'd know what's behind this case, and if you'd know satmar chassidim, you wouldn't say such non-sense about following like lambs, cuz satmar is precisely not that.

83

 Jan 27, 2013 at 09:00 AM Geulah Says:

Bernie Madoff 11 counts guilty - sentence 150 years. No one raped, no one molested. The comments here, in the majority, make money more an issue than children and a beard and peyos more worthy of rachmonis than a Yid in general. This is what we've lowered ourselves to and this is what we condone?

84

 Jan 27, 2013 at 09:37 AM PaulinSaudi Says:

If someone rapes my little girl, I hope he never has to decide what to order for breakfast again, Jew or no Jew. Lock him up and melt the key.

85

 Jan 27, 2013 at 09:50 AM DB_from_LI Says:

Reply to #46  
DNA Says:

Did she had DNA to proof that he did had contact with him ?

She could cry and scream nothing is like bringing a real DNA proof from a doctor.

You cannot convict a person by a girls word.

As far as I know, none of the 54 charges were of rape. Molestation & sexual assault yes. Neither of those leave DNA so there would be no DNA, hence no rape charges.......

86

 Jan 27, 2013 at 09:51 AM Syllee Says:

Reply to #1  
ChareidiMan Says:

Catch 22!

I am one that beleives that he deserves every day of the 103 year sentence, i however also agree that people will refrain from reporting because of this big number.

On the other side though, i think, people will think twice before they do a crime knowing that there are no short cuts anymore

If after one hour of deliberation (some say 90 Minutes with lunch)59 counts were read and deliberated by jury. Based on a therapist that was also duped as part of scheme of victim and friends. Experts noted the crying of victim so unreal. Husband cried exact same way as victim cried by sentence day. Watch clip. The swallowing. And you believe?
Sorry YOU are not to be believed. Your mimicking tabloid stuff who don't pretend to be truthful, only an interesting read or follow.
This guy is innocent. If you are Jewish and get on stand you will also be measured by your prettiness, skirt length, vacuum packedness of your top,and how good you act. If you are a male and Chassidic you have your answer. If you look as the victims husband you have your answer, wont charm a soul. This is not a truthful mishpat and don't ever expect a Torah based trial. And therefore do not speak for victims and what will happen. This man is innocent. On stand the lie of the so called next victim was disputed as she tried to pull in the person testifying.

87

 Jan 27, 2013 at 09:54 AM Robert Says:

Reply to #54  
Anonymous Says:

Why should an innocent man perjure himself by pleading guilty to a horrible crime he was framed for? If he had done it, of course he would have plead guilty.

i respectfully think you have no idea about life and reality and of people.

88

 Jan 27, 2013 at 10:01 AM Robert Says:

Reply to #62  
Barsechel Says:

There is ni justice in Americanto give 103 years to this guy shows that justice here is a mockery its as simple as that, the result of this verdict is that no one ever from the hasidic community will cooperate with the DA
Shame on the system and jewish politicians who have allowed this to happen

guess what
if they do not co-operate in the future about rape and molestation in their communities
there will be more 103 year sentences for terrible crimes and the people who obstruct will also go to jail for 20 years for obstruction of justice

dont be so 'hitzik'

89

 Jan 27, 2013 at 10:01 AM Anonymous Says:

The lesson learned is that NO parent should ever send their child to an UNLICENSED 'counselor'. Even then a female should only be sent to a female licensed counselor. No child should ever be left alone with any rabbi or taken to a mikvah by one.

90

 Jan 27, 2013 at 10:10 AM Chaim Eliezer Says:

"Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, vice president of Agudath Israel of America, a nonprofit with links to Brooklyn’s Satmar community said the DA’s office should have handled the case more 'delicately.'"

How about Satmar? They could have "delicately" advised Weberman to take the plea bargain, "delicately" refrained from a public fund-raiser, "delicately" avoided bribery and witness intimidation.

Instead they confirmed the goyishe world's suspicion that Jews are hypocrites who care much more about ritual and appearance than justice and human decency.

91

 Jan 27, 2013 at 11:07 AM Sol Says:

Reply to #90  
Chaim Eliezer Says:

"Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, vice president of Agudath Israel of America, a nonprofit with links to Brooklyn’s Satmar community said the DA’s office should have handled the case more 'delicately.'"

How about Satmar? They could have "delicately" advised Weberman to take the plea bargain, "delicately" refrained from a public fund-raiser, "delicately" avoided bribery and witness intimidation.

Instead they confirmed the goyishe world's suspicion that Jews are hypocrites who care much more about ritual and appearance than justice and human decency.

He was never offered a plea !!
How many times do we need to explain that ?

92

 Jan 27, 2013 at 11:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
Queenbee Says:

I am not taking sides. Just pointing out that the "LINGERIE" that everyone and the media was so busy with was actually a purchase at the Neuschloss Robe Store on 13'th Ave and 49 st. which is called "The Lingerie Shop" We all now that this store sells mostly Robes and Nightgowns. But of course the media is not interested to know that. The store is called "The LINGERIE Shop" and that's enough to get the media going.

There were purchases made for the girl that testified FOR Weberman. Though she was a very weak witness, she admitted that Weberman bought her unseemly lingerie. Don't forget that he was not her father nor her husband and she was sleeping on the bed in his inside apartment office that was lockable by three locks only from the inside. Does anyone here have beds in their private offices and does anyone here have girls conviently sleeping in those beds. AND he buys the girl lingerie, probably for tznius purposes. Of course, the media jumped on that.

93

 Jan 27, 2013 at 11:45 AM Ohavsholom Says:

Reply to #38  
insider Says:

Weberman turned down a plea-deal for 5 years. He could of been out in two and half. he brought untold shame on Satmar. He is a disgrace. He was secluded with the victim for hours alone behind locked doors. Yichud? He never heard of it. There's absolutely no defence. He caused the single BIGGEST chilul haShem in history. The Rebono shel Olam would never of allowed a 103 year sentence if he was innocent. You know it. I know it. And so does everyone else, including every supposed Weberman supporter, including his own wife (nebech). Sadly, that's the simple truth.

How do you know he definately had the option of a plea bargain for a five year term ? what did he think he would come away clean ?

95

 Jan 27, 2013 at 11:54 AM Chaim! Says:

Reply to #91  
Sol Says:

He was never offered a plea !!
How many times do we need to explain that ?

Reply to 91: Firstly he was offered a plea. And secondly even if he wasn't offered a plea it was his arrogants pride Chutzpa and all the false hope coming from his unrealistic Kehila that made him even more unrealistic himself.
When Weberman left the fundraiser event he said to himself "There is no way I am going to serve a day in jail with so much support", in other words his own community shoved him into his jail cell. If the community really wanted to help him they should have encouraged him to negotiate a plea instead of acting like a bunch of animals.

The DA is usually not the one to chase you to cut a deal, it's rather you chasing them "which many have done in the past, but Weberman failed to do"!

96

 Jan 27, 2013 at 11:54 AM outsider Says:

Reply to #54  
Anonymous Says:

Why should an innocent man perjure himself by pleading guilty to a horrible crime he was framed for? If he had done it, of course he would have plead guilty.

Interesting. Very interesting. Every Weberman supporter has only harsh words for the "girl" victim. Does even one Weberman supporter take into account that, at the very least, Weberman violated every possible yichud avreira with the then 12 year old "girl." Is it at all possible that when Weberman supporters refer to the "girl" as a "witch" that it was Weberman himself that made a 12 year old girl into the witch. Is it possible that her character is the net result of Weberman's "counseling?"
Astounding that the Satmar community could possibly have backed the admittedly evil deeds and admitted aveiras of Weberman. Would any upstanding Satmar chosid allow himself to be secluded alone with a 12 year old girl? Would the Aroni Rebbe allow himself to voluntarily be locked behind doors with a witch-whore-prostitute? How in the world is it possible that Weberman was strongly supported by the pious Satmar community? If this is indeed the ehrlechkeit and Yiddishkeit of the Satmar community, then, Heaven help us, the whole Satmar community deserves 103 years. Look at Shoftim, perek yud-tes and decide what HASHEM has in store for the entire Satmar community. HASHEM YERACHEIM.

97

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:03 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #86  
Syllee Says:

If after one hour of deliberation (some say 90 Minutes with lunch)59 counts were read and deliberated by jury. Based on a therapist that was also duped as part of scheme of victim and friends. Experts noted the crying of victim so unreal. Husband cried exact same way as victim cried by sentence day. Watch clip. The swallowing. And you believe?
Sorry YOU are not to be believed. Your mimicking tabloid stuff who don't pretend to be truthful, only an interesting read or follow.
This guy is innocent. If you are Jewish and get on stand you will also be measured by your prettiness, skirt length, vacuum packedness of your top,and how good you act. If you are a male and Chassidic you have your answer. If you look as the victims husband you have your answer, wont charm a soul. This is not a truthful mishpat and don't ever expect a Torah based trial. And therefore do not speak for victims and what will happen. This man is innocent. On stand the lie of the so called next victim was disputed as she tried to pull in the person testifying.

Here is the lie, everything you write. If you are Chassidish you don't sit thisclose to your have naked female attorney especially when your wife is sitting right behind you and you are trying to make a good impression in court. That just goes to show you have nor respect for your wife, you don't care about your Jewish Laws, and you don't care about showing the court that you care about your Jewish Laws or respecting your wife!

So Syllee, he proved to the court that HE was a phony and that he could not be trusted neither to follow Jewish Law nor Secular Law! His own defense attorneys proved that he was Oiver Yichud and Moiser! So give it up already. He is not innocent of anything. The only thing that he was ever duped for was being accountable and responsible for his actions from his own Rav and kehillah. That's over now!

98

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:04 PM Chaim! Says:

Reply to #81  
Moone Says:

I can understand why he didn't instantly solve the connection between a lingerie shop and his wife's rope store. But nevertheless, a bad image was applied even among supporters, and help shape their mind.

If you understand why he didn't offer any valid explanation regarding the lingerie please enlighten us.

If it was only his wife that could have made that purchase he should've naturally offered that explanation without any hesitation.

Imagine you ask a drunk where he bought his beer 28 days ago, There's simply no way he could physically remember such an event since he went through a few hundred bottles since.
Weberman was in the same boat.

99

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:06 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #85  
DB_from_LI Says:

As far as I know, none of the 54 charges were of rape. Molestation & sexual assault yes. Neither of those leave DNA so there would be no DNA, hence no rape charges.......

Wow, you can really tell that Jews avoid being on jurys. The judge gave explicit instructions to the JURY before the trial. TESTIMONY is EQUAL to EVIDENCE. The big hullabaloo about DNA is only prevalent on TV!!! Stop watching so much TV and pay attention to the Judge's instructions!!!

100

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:06 PM Insider Says:

Reply to #91  
Sol Says:

He was never offered a plea !!
How many times do we need to explain that ?

Every case, without exception, is explored for quick resolution. Once that door is opened, a plea-deal is arrived at after extensive negotiations between prosecutors and defense attorneys. Weberman's defense posture, from day one, was that he denies absolutely everything and that he eagerly wants to go to trial. Every plea-deal opening was rebuffed by Weberman's obviously wise defense attorneys. This refusal to even entertain a quick resolution of the case was definitely an additional factor in the judge arriving at what seems to be an astounding 103 year prison sentence. Combine the offense (as opposed to defense) with victim intimidation, bribery attempts, etc., etc., and you have a reasonable sentence of ONLY 103 years. Weberman's belligerent revenge will be his outliving his sentence (in prison, of course).

101

 Jan 27, 2013 at 12:23 PM Shimon Says:

I am very worried if it is an unfortunate chillul hashem. But if that is anyway the case, i hope it atleast leads to alot of good in the long run.
Regarding the person himself? I don't know. If it is all true, I'd expect he needed a big tikun by now. But it would be better if he were locked up in a way that he can continue living as a religous jew, behind good enough bars. Who knows? I'm not out to punish, but it is very important that others are protected, plus, that there is a great deterent against future offenders.

102

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:12 PM MrSpeaker Says:

Reply to #91  
Sol Says:

He was never offered a plea !!
How many times do we need to explain that ?

Don't talk what you don't know!!
He was offered a plea deal (ask anyone of his family members) as late as the last Thursday, before the guilty verdict was anonuced - the deal was pushed by the girl's father 1 day before the girl turned 18 years, (on Friday) by then the girl would have had to approve it. --Fact--
For you other ppl so happy with his getting 103 years in jail, let me just warn you to "watch you're language". Hasham will put all this before you after your 120 year, when he brings up your sin,, and that will not be pretty, will it?

103

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:14 PM Azoiy Says:

How sad... Most bloggers are actually happy that Weberman received 103 years. "He deserves it". "About time". "Justice is served, finally", etc. etc. How sad...
Don't get me wrong. I am not sticking up for Weberman nor Satmar. What ever happened to "hilchos yichud"??? Where is human decency?? Since when is he licensed to deal with this type of stuff??
But let me ask you all two questions:
1) According to Din Torah he would never have been convicted - no 2 kosher witnesses. Circumstancial eveidence means nothing. Yes, he would have surely received "malkus mardus" - but thats it!
So you don't believe in our Torah as being just?
2) If this had c"v been your child c"v sitting in Webermans position - would you be so vindictive and ready-to-hang", or would you have been more "dan k'kaf zchus"??
Think about it
How sad...

104

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:20 PM OYVY2 Says:

Reply to #2  
vitriol Says:

Look you cannot have your cake and eat it. If you want somebody prosecuted to the "full extent of the law" then you do not have the authority to handcuff the legal system to suit your needs, Besides, who the heck cares what people like Hikind would have 'preferred'. This is not about him but about the victim. With the maximum sentence meted out, this girl does not have to worry if and when he will get out and seek revenge which Weberman has probably thought about and will be thinking about. Besides, you cannot rehabilitate someone who victimizes the downtrodden and troubled premeditatedly. Weberman is right where he belongs unfortunately.

I agree fully, and not only does this girl not have to worry but everyone else that he would have molested if he got out. We want justice and then there are people who want to curtail amount of time. It is the law, I am surprised at the comments of Hikind he is usually on the ball with things, Not surprised at Agudah.

105

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:22 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #71  
Anonymous Says:

Oh yeah? and what exactly are YOUR connections to Satmar that you know so much about what goes on there in secret - so much so that people who've lived within that system their whole life do not know?

cont. bein adom l'chaveiro speaks volumes of the problems in the Satmar community. If you are head of a community and the kehilah looks to you for guidance you cannot be blind to what is going on. If you say you care about every single person in your kehilah then you had better prove it and stand behind your words. If you say you care about the children then you better do whatever is in your power to protect the children, and you certainly have a lot of power.

The article stated that the Rebbe prides himself in not making a big show and not walking around with a lot of gabbaim, so what was that big to do at the airport all about? His gabai said that the promise of $100 to anyone who agrees not to vote was a media ploy yet there was NO report from the Rebbe's camp that it was not true while it was happening.

There are two brothers that the Beirach Moshe entrusted the Satmar dynasty to. These two sons do NOT speak to each other. These two sons are in secular court in a dispute about what gashmius? Is this an example for the kehila? Is this respect to their father? To their great uncle? Is this role modeling for their Kehilah? What should we say about Satmar?

106

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:25 PM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

that had nothing to do with the case, was purposely misused by the prosecution to mislead the jury. They probably thought a bp lingerie shop is like the goyishe lingerie shops. This is why the Constitution promises a jury of peers, and his constitutional rights were infringed upon because these were not his peers. They had no understanding of what they were dealing with. A frum jury would have asked a question like did he have unfiltered internet or were there any receipts for dirty dvds, etc. that would have proven whether he did it or not to a jury of his peers. Since there is no proof of either, I assume the girl is lying.

It is self-evident that you never read the US Constitution; secondly, the courts long ago ruled the jury of peers is not necessarily reflect same gender, nationally or religion, meaning that Irish, German, or woman cannot demand a trial by only Germans or Irish, or just woman.

107

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:25 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #69  
Chaim! Says:

Reply to #52 Hide Quote
Queenbee Says: Says:
“ I am not taking sides. Just pointing out that the "LINGERIE" that everyone and the media was so busy with was actually a purchase at the Neuschloss Robe Store on 13'th Ave and 49 st. which is called "The Lingerie Shop" We all now that this store sells mostly Robes and Nightgowns. But of course the media is not interested to know that. The store is called "The LINGERIE Shop" and that's enough to get the media going. ”

If it was "only" his wife or daughter that could have made that Lingerie purchase why didn't Weberman offer that explanation on the stand and come clean, instead of freezing like an icicle?
I see no valid reason in the world why he would walk away looking like a Shtick Dreck if he had a valid excuse otherwise!

I was NOT in court during this testimony so I don't know if that is correct or not but even if it is correct, the fact that a charge from his tzedaka fund to a lingerie shop for his wife or daughter would be considered fraud/geneva. One is NOT allowed to use a tzedaka fund for lingerie!

108

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #99  
Sherree Says:

Wow, you can really tell that Jews avoid being on jurys. The judge gave explicit instructions to the JURY before the trial. TESTIMONY is EQUAL to EVIDENCE. The big hullabaloo about DNA is only prevalent on TV!!! Stop watching so much TV and pay attention to the Judge's instructions!!!

? Have you read yet the VIN story which follows?
quoting paragraph 3:
In a new post, David Ward said he “never for a moment intended to criticize or offend the Jewish people as a whole, either as a race or as a people of faith, and [apologized] sincerely for the unintended offense which [his] words caused.”

109

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:30 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #69  
Chaim! Says:

Reply to #52 Hide Quote
Queenbee Says: Says:
“ I am not taking sides. Just pointing out that the "LINGERIE" that everyone and the media was so busy with was actually a purchase at the Neuschloss Robe Store on 13'th Ave and 49 st. which is called "The Lingerie Shop" We all now that this store sells mostly Robes and Nightgowns. But of course the media is not interested to know that. The store is called "The LINGERIE Shop" and that's enough to get the media going. ”

If it was "only" his wife or daughter that could have made that Lingerie purchase why didn't Weberman offer that explanation on the stand and come clean, instead of freezing like an icicle?
I see no valid reason in the world why he would walk away looking like a Shtick Dreck if he had a valid excuse otherwise!

Let me just explain that a little bit better. When you set up a charity organization also known as a "non-profit 501C3" non taxable corp" you have to state on the application what type of non-profit it is and what the money will be used for. When you are approved for that non-profit, you can not use the money for any other purpose other than for what that non-profit was set up to do. If the non-profit was set up to help poor people put food on their table, then that is what the money has to go for. If the non-profit was set up to pay for poor people's tuition or education then that is what you have to use it for. If the non-profit is set up to help at-risk kids get therapy then that is what it has to be used for. You can't just use the funds for whatever you want, that is considered Fraud. You will never get approved on your application if you say "I will use it at my discretion for whatever I want". Do you understand that now??

110

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:35 PM Just the Facts Says:

Reply to #103  
Azoiy Says:

How sad... Most bloggers are actually happy that Weberman received 103 years. "He deserves it". "About time". "Justice is served, finally", etc. etc. How sad...
Don't get me wrong. I am not sticking up for Weberman nor Satmar. What ever happened to "hilchos yichud"??? Where is human decency?? Since when is he licensed to deal with this type of stuff??
But let me ask you all two questions:
1) According to Din Torah he would never have been convicted - no 2 kosher witnesses. Circumstancial eveidence means nothing. Yes, he would have surely received "malkus mardus" - but thats it!
So you don't believe in our Torah as being just?
2) If this had c"v been your child c"v sitting in Webermans position - would you be so vindictive and ready-to-hang", or would you have been more "dan k'kaf zchus"??
Think about it
How sad...

Here is a translation of excerpts of the Tshuvas H’Rashba, quoted by the Bait Yosef (Yosef Karo) in Choshen Mishpat 386 which I took from another site.


These words (all of Hilchos Aidus) were only said when there exists Sanhedrin, mandated as such by the Torah. However, with the law of the land we disregard all these Halachas (Hilchos Aidus), for their laws, (Dina D’malchusa), are a means to seek out the truth, and they (the defendants) are punished according to the law of the land. (This is true) even with witnesses that are relatives, even when the defendant incriminates himself, even without a warning (withou hasra’a), for their laws are a means to seek out the truth. For if you don’t say so, but you’d rather uphold all the laws of the land according to the standards of the Torah when a Sanhedrin exists, the world would be destroyed; for the deceitful and their cohorts would spread (exponentially)…And even greater (than this example) we find that R’ Eliezar son of R’ Shimon captured and jailed (Jewish thieves) and punished them…So this definitely proves what I have previously said…, for a king with the way he structures the laws upholds the land.

111

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:53 PM Insider Says:

Reply to #103  
Azoiy Says:

How sad... Most bloggers are actually happy that Weberman received 103 years. "He deserves it". "About time". "Justice is served, finally", etc. etc. How sad...
Don't get me wrong. I am not sticking up for Weberman nor Satmar. What ever happened to "hilchos yichud"??? Where is human decency?? Since when is he licensed to deal with this type of stuff??
But let me ask you all two questions:
1) According to Din Torah he would never have been convicted - no 2 kosher witnesses. Circumstancial eveidence means nothing. Yes, he would have surely received "malkus mardus" - but thats it!
So you don't believe in our Torah as being just?
2) If this had c"v been your child c"v sitting in Webermans position - would you be so vindictive and ready-to-hang", or would you have been more "dan k'kaf zchus"??
Think about it
How sad...

My dear fellow Yid amu"sh. We live in galus. The Torah applies to galus too. The chachomim promulgated a halacha that is obligatory on all of us. It is dina d'machusa dina !! Weberman, living in Williamsburg, New York, is obligated by the Torah to abide by the laws of New York State. It is those laws that applied during his arrest, his arraignment, his plea, his trial, his verdict, and his sentencing. We can rant and rave about how a beis din would have ruled. But that same beis din would have confirmed the findings of the jury and the sentence by the judge.
By the way, Weberman is lucky to have been tried by jury in New York. Had beis din sentenced him to makus mordus, or your malkus mordos, it would have him dying a painful miserable death. 103 years behind bars with kosher food, cable TV, minyanim, shiurim, and family and friends visits are considerable better that painful death. Thank you New York Department of Correction. (Remember Jewish Party Chaplain Leib Glantz l'kaf zechus!!)
No thank you for your kind favor of having beis din killing Weberman.

112

 Jan 27, 2013 at 01:58 PM Dovid Hamelech Says:

Reply to #49  
Anonymous Says:

Yichud with an unmarried Girl was a law that began in the Times of Dovid Hamelech.

Dovid Hamelech himself warmed his body with the 12 year old Avishag Hashunamis without even marying her.

Although non Jews allow Yichud, I don't understand why the frume Satmars do allow people to have Yichud with a small girl? Even if the Rabbis don't support a 103 year sentence - they should place strickter rules on Yichud just as they do on tznius. I would recomend them to begin using women to counsel troubled girls.

Just because "Dovid Hamelech himself warmed his body with the 12 year old Avishag Hashunamis without even marying her"

That does not allow Weberman to do so.

113

 Jan 27, 2013 at 02:25 PM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #109  
Sherree Says:

Let me just explain that a little bit better. When you set up a charity organization also known as a "non-profit 501C3" non taxable corp" you have to state on the application what type of non-profit it is and what the money will be used for. When you are approved for that non-profit, you can not use the money for any other purpose other than for what that non-profit was set up to do. If the non-profit was set up to help poor people put food on their table, then that is what the money has to go for. If the non-profit was set up to pay for poor people's tuition or education then that is what you have to use it for. If the non-profit is set up to help at-risk kids get therapy then that is what it has to be used for. You can't just use the funds for whatever you want, that is considered Fraud. You will never get approved on your application if you say "I will use it at my discretion for whatever I want". Do you understand that now??

Can you explain to me why in this case it seems that you are on the ball, understanding and arguing intelligently, but SMR case you are a defender like all the defenders here without really digesting the facts of the case.

114

 Jan 27, 2013 at 02:30 PM Anon Ibid Opcit Says:

All these comments about how 103 years was far too long. So much wailing about how only a Jew would get a sentence like this.

Why don't any of you mention Walter Meyerle? He just got 494 years for child molestation.

115

 Jan 27, 2013 at 03:15 PM sol Says:

Reply to #95  
Chaim! Says:

Reply to 91: Firstly he was offered a plea. And secondly even if he wasn't offered a plea it was his arrogants pride Chutzpa and all the false hope coming from his unrealistic Kehila that made him even more unrealistic himself.
When Weberman left the fundraiser event he said to himself "There is no way I am going to serve a day in jail with so much support", in other words his own community shoved him into his jail cell. If the community really wanted to help him they should have encouraged him to negotiate a plea instead of acting like a bunch of animals.

The DA is usually not the one to chase you to cut a deal, it's rather you chasing them "which many have done in the past, but Weberman failed to do"!

i spoke to mr farkes: he said he was never ever offered a plea i happen to believe his lawyer over you ! in addition the reason why they do offer a plea is cuz that will save a lot of money and hard work for the DA's office to present a case, and even after that they wont be sure if its a strong enough case to be sentence before a judge after filtering all counts and going over all the witness. in that case you got a girl witch is talking non-stop willing to testify all the way plus the hate out there and the messages he spouse to bring across. why the hell should they offer a plea, this case is too good to let it go just like that according to them !

116

 Jan 27, 2013 at 04:19 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #113  
JoeGrossJR Says:

Can you explain to me why in this case it seems that you are on the ball, understanding and arguing intelligently, but SMR case you are a defender like all the defenders here without really digesting the facts of the case.

Can you tell me why you think you know more facts in the case than I do?

117

 Jan 27, 2013 at 04:22 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #115  
sol Says:

i spoke to mr farkes: he said he was never ever offered a plea i happen to believe his lawyer over you ! in addition the reason why they do offer a plea is cuz that will save a lot of money and hard work for the DA's office to present a case, and even after that they wont be sure if its a strong enough case to be sentence before a judge after filtering all counts and going over all the witness. in that case you got a girl witch is talking non-stop willing to testify all the way plus the hate out there and the messages he spouse to bring across. why the hell should they offer a plea, this case is too good to let it go just like that according to them !

Farkas is the one who asked the expert witness "Isn't there a heter for Yichud in respect to Giluy Arayos"? That pretty much put the nails in his clients coffin! And also established Yichud by asking the same expert witness "is it still considered Yichud if he borrowed the father's car?" I don't trust anything that comes out of Farkas' mouth.

118

 Jan 27, 2013 at 04:32 PM MrSpeaker Says:

Reply to #115  
sol Says:

i spoke to mr farkes: he said he was never ever offered a plea i happen to believe his lawyer over you ! in addition the reason why they do offer a plea is cuz that will save a lot of money and hard work for the DA's office to present a case, and even after that they wont be sure if its a strong enough case to be sentence before a judge after filtering all counts and going over all the witness. in that case you got a girl witch is talking non-stop willing to testify all the way plus the hate out there and the messages he spouse to bring across. why the hell should they offer a plea, this case is too good to let it go just like that according to them !

With all the respect, you don't know the lawyer at all.. AT ALL.
I can tell you HE WAS offered a plea, and he didn't wana take it, for some good reasons.
Taht's according to His (Mr. Webbermans) son and eidam.
Now you say what ever you want just because you like to type and say u know some lawyers.. Wow

119

 Jan 27, 2013 at 04:40 PM Smith Says:

Reply to #112  
Dovid Hamelech Says:

Just because "Dovid Hamelech himself warmed his body with the 12 year old Avishag Hashunamis without even marying her"

That does not allow Weberman to do so.

you not?

120

 Jan 27, 2013 at 04:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #115  
sol Says:

i spoke to mr farkes: he said he was never ever offered a plea i happen to believe his lawyer over you ! in addition the reason why they do offer a plea is cuz that will save a lot of money and hard work for the DA's office to present a case, and even after that they wont be sure if its a strong enough case to be sentence before a judge after filtering all counts and going over all the witness. in that case you got a girl witch is talking non-stop willing to testify all the way plus the hate out there and the messages he spouse to bring across. why the hell should they offer a plea, this case is too good to let it go just like that according to them !

call the DA's office and hear their side of the plea issue.
then come back and tell us what they said

121

 Jan 27, 2013 at 04:49 PM Anonymous Says:

The parents of 12 year old Yiddeshe maideles can sleep sounder for the next ONE HUNDRED AND THREE YEARS!

122

 Jan 27, 2013 at 05:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #105  
Sherree Says:

cont. bein adom l'chaveiro speaks volumes of the problems in the Satmar community. If you are head of a community and the kehilah looks to you for guidance you cannot be blind to what is going on. If you say you care about every single person in your kehilah then you had better prove it and stand behind your words. If you say you care about the children then you better do whatever is in your power to protect the children, and you certainly have a lot of power.

The article stated that the Rebbe prides himself in not making a big show and not walking around with a lot of gabbaim, so what was that big to do at the airport all about? His gabai said that the promise of $100 to anyone who agrees not to vote was a media ploy yet there was NO report from the Rebbe's camp that it was not true while it was happening.

There are two brothers that the Beirach Moshe entrusted the Satmar dynasty to. These two sons do NOT speak to each other. These two sons are in secular court in a dispute about what gashmius? Is this an example for the kehila? Is this respect to their father? To their great uncle? Is this role modeling for their Kehilah? What should we say about Satmar?

Sherree, why would the Rebbe's camp have to deny something that the Israeli media cooked up? What do they have with them???
I agree that the feud between the brothers is very ugly. Sad to say, when it comes to inheritances, many non-rabbinical families have also been torn apart. The stakes here are just much higher and public. I totally blame the Batei Dinim of our times. Many are really corrupt and have forced us to turn to the secular courts for resolution. (Look at the travesty of the Bobov case.)
Regarding the Weberman case, neither Satmar Rebbe was involved.
Unfortunately, this young rebellious girl was not adhering to the strict and rigorous rules of the school. Her parents should have transferred her to a less rigid one, where she would have possibly found her place. Instead, they took her to Weberman to try to deal with her. The rest is history....
I personally have a problem with sending young frum girls to male therapists - I would not allow it for any of my children.
On the other hand (unlike this case) when medications are needed, or there is a clinical disorder, there may be no other option.
Bottom line --- Hashem Yeracheim!!

123

 Jan 27, 2013 at 05:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
X29 Rider Says:

What does Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zweibel mean by the case should have been handled more delicately? Meaning he should have gotten a slap on the wrist?

NO. meaning that the trila should have been about weberman not satmar like it was. They put the entire satmar on trail mocking tznuis laws, vaad hatznius etc.. Whether you agree or disagree the case should have been about weberman not turning satmar into the taliban.
And between me and you that defintly added to his conviction. If you can paint a sect as fanatic and talibans people will have a negative view of the defendent automaticlly. But its possibile that he would have been found guilty anyhow. I just think they could have left out what I would call the "anti satmarism".

124

 Jan 27, 2013 at 05:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #92  
Anonymous Says:

There were purchases made for the girl that testified FOR Weberman. Though she was a very weak witness, she admitted that Weberman bought her unseemly lingerie. Don't forget that he was not her father nor her husband and she was sleeping on the bed in his inside apartment office that was lockable by three locks only from the inside. Does anyone here have beds in their private offices and does anyone here have girls conviently sleeping in those beds. AND he buys the girl lingerie, probably for tznius purposes. Of course, the media jumped on that.

From what I understand the infamous "3 locks" were 1) a broken lock not used for yrs 2) a shabbos lock that everyone had the combo 3) your typical doorknob lock that comes with most doors that you buy and acn be picked with a toothpick (I do that every time my 3 yr old locks the bathroom door by mistake!)

125

 Jan 27, 2013 at 05:59 PM yunggrama Says:

It all starts with the kids who think they r smarter then eveyone and misbehave. if she would of listened to her parents all this would of never happened! she put herself into this on her own! She was and is a rebellious kid and still is! With her ,and the many like her ,this is not the end! She is young and this is only the begining! And all of you posting on her behalf have caused their parents lots of heartaches as well. Mr. Weberman like many other "so called chasidish therapists" should go find any other means of setting food on the table! This kind of" help" should be left to the non religious therapists!

126

 Jan 27, 2013 at 06:37 PM Sol-Sol Says:

Reply to #103  
Azoiy Says:

How sad... Most bloggers are actually happy that Weberman received 103 years. "He deserves it". "About time". "Justice is served, finally", etc. etc. How sad...
Don't get me wrong. I am not sticking up for Weberman nor Satmar. What ever happened to "hilchos yichud"??? Where is human decency?? Since when is he licensed to deal with this type of stuff??
But let me ask you all two questions:
1) According to Din Torah he would never have been convicted - no 2 kosher witnesses. Circumstancial eveidence means nothing. Yes, he would have surely received "malkus mardus" - but thats it!
So you don't believe in our Torah as being just?
2) If this had c"v been your child c"v sitting in Webermans position - would you be so vindictive and ready-to-hang", or would you have been more "dan k'kaf zchus"??
Think about it
How sad...

2) If this had c"v been your child c"v sitting in Webermans position - would you be so vindictive and ready-to-hang", or would you have been more "dan k'kaf zchus"??
Think about it

I only have one question for you.

If the victim was your child and the community tried to destroy tour family & business in every which way how would you feel about it?

Stop playing with ppl's soft spots & emotions with your flip-flop devils advocate stunts, the game is over!!

127

 Jan 27, 2013 at 06:44 PM Chaim! Says:

Reply to #115  
sol Says:

i spoke to mr farkes: he said he was never ever offered a plea i happen to believe his lawyer over you ! in addition the reason why they do offer a plea is cuz that will save a lot of money and hard work for the DA's office to present a case, and even after that they wont be sure if its a strong enough case to be sentence before a judge after filtering all counts and going over all the witness. in that case you got a girl witch is talking non-stop willing to testify all the way plus the hate out there and the messages he spouse to bring across. why the hell should they offer a plea, this case is too good to let it go just like that according to them !

i spoke to mr farkes: he said he was never ever offered a plea i happen to believe his lawyer over you !

Farkas has to say whatever suits him best at the present time. And you can choose to believe whomever you want at the present time.

But one thing I can tell you is, that the Satmer Kehila has lots to answer for their despicable behavior over this case.

128

 Jan 27, 2013 at 07:22 PM OyVeyismir Says:

I'm surprised that not one commenter from either side bothered considering the most obvious reason why Weberman may have received his unreasonably harsh sentence. If in fact it's true that he was given an opportunity to plead guilty and would have received a sentence of 5yrs and avoided a massive desecration of hashem's name, it would be of no surprise to us, given the fact that Satmar has taken their dispute to the secular courts, which according to Rashi in parshas mishpotim clearly calls it a complete desecration of Hashems name. The fact that its being done in public makes it a sin that one must give up his life for.
Wouldn't the result of this case be the " Midah Kineged Middah "???!
Play in the secular court system and desecrate Hashems name gets you exactly what you've asked for ! Keep doing it and this will only be the beginning of the end of the holy dynasty Rav Yoel started.
Time to wake up. Doesn't matter which Rebbe you like. Both are equally guilty. Fighting for money, false pride , and worst of all , pure Gayvah.
As the mishna in Avos warns " Gayvah will take your common sense away "
Time to set a better example to your followers.

129

 Jan 27, 2013 at 07:59 PM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #116  
Sherree Says:

Can you tell me why you think you know more facts in the case than I do?

I never claimed that in the SMR case, I know more or less facts. My point is that if you are really honest with yourself, you will see that in the SMR case he defrauded the bank on a large scale; nevertheless, you always minimize that fact. Using a fallacy that because, the company continued to pay the interest therefore it cannot be a fraud, while every Ponzi scheme is fraud regardless the beginning investors got back their original money with profit, because at the end it will always cause losses. That same with the fraudulent invoices which was over 12 million dollars, at the end of the day regardless if the raid effected the viability of the company, the company eventually would have going broke because eventually you cannot continue with a fraud on this magnitude.

130

 Jan 27, 2013 at 08:43 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #129  
JoeGrossJR Says:

I never claimed that in the SMR case, I know more or less facts. My point is that if you are really honest with yourself, you will see that in the SMR case he defrauded the bank on a large scale; nevertheless, you always minimize that fact. Using a fallacy that because, the company continued to pay the interest therefore it cannot be a fraud, while every Ponzi scheme is fraud regardless the beginning investors got back their original money with profit, because at the end it will always cause losses. That same with the fraudulent invoices which was over 12 million dollars, at the end of the day regardless if the raid effected the viability of the company, the company eventually would have going broke because eventually you cannot continue with a fraud on this magnitude.

I will explain it to you one more time. Follow the outline:

1. I am close to the family so I know the story intimately
2. The raid was based on a false report
3. The raid was staged with the knowledge, cooperation and guidance of the Judge
4. Millions of dollars was spent on a raid that was expected to turn up a barrage of guns and drugs. They found nothing. The raid was a bust and was a total waist of taxpayer funds.
5. They came in as if they were attacking enemy territory, never in the history of US did the Justice department every attack a US corporation in such a fashion.
6. They were humiliated but instead of offering an apology, they wanted to justify their mistake and went after the company and family with everything they had.
7. They had nothing and crawled up and down the company and family looking for something to pin on them and found nothing.
8. This caused the family to choose to sell the business but the government did NOT allow them to sell it at market value. Never in the history of the US government has something of this nature happened to a US citizen.
9. The Justice department and its prosecutors deliberately chose to bankrupt the family.
cont.

131

 Jan 27, 2013 at 08:48 PM BLONDI Says:

why didnt mr farkas come up with some girls who were helped by his client? if he was so highly recommended, im sure they could have found ONE girl who was happy she went to him and was helped in the past and is now an adult. I believe Rabbi Horowitz, when he said that there are girls now coming forward and saying they had been violated by weberman, and that one girl actually was sad she didnt have the guts to put an end to his career a long time ago.
I cant get myself to preface his name with the title rabbi..

132

 Jan 27, 2013 at 08:56 PM Sol Says:

Reply to #118  
MrSpeaker Says:

With all the respect, you don't know the lawyer at all.. AT ALL.
I can tell you HE WAS offered a plea, and he didn't wana take it, for some good reasons.
Taht's according to His (Mr. Webbermans) son and eidam.
Now you say what ever you want just because you like to type and say u know some lawyers.. Wow

Mr speaker! I wonder if when you wrote your commend your face got a littel redish. Cuz mr Weberman has no eidam at all as of now. So since there is no eidam source there is no son source either( when in deed I by my self just spoke to his son and confirmed it again that in any case was no plea offered) so again my friend as your commend stands for I figure most if the comments stands for the same so called facts and points.And just to make ckear I'm not trying to be a big shot that I know some lawyers I just happen to know very well this particular fact. That's all !!!

133

 Jan 27, 2013 at 08:59 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #125  
yunggrama Says:

It all starts with the kids who think they r smarter then eveyone and misbehave. if she would of listened to her parents all this would of never happened! she put herself into this on her own! She was and is a rebellious kid and still is! With her ,and the many like her ,this is not the end! She is young and this is only the begining! And all of you posting on her behalf have caused their parents lots of heartaches as well. Mr. Weberman like many other "so called chasidish therapists" should go find any other means of setting food on the table! This kind of" help" should be left to the non religious therapists!

Shame on you for being motzi shem rah on this young girl. She was a rebellious kid because she asked why she has to wear such thick itchy tights? That makes her rebellious? Do you know her personally that you can say anything about her. You disgust me!

134

 Jan 27, 2013 at 08:59 PM Sherree Says:

Reply to #124  
Anonymous Says:

From what I understand the infamous "3 locks" were 1) a broken lock not used for yrs 2) a shabbos lock that everyone had the combo 3) your typical doorknob lock that comes with most doors that you buy and acn be picked with a toothpick (I do that every time my 3 yr old locks the bathroom door by mistake!)

Then you don't understand.

135

 Jan 27, 2013 at 09:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #128  
OyVeyismir Says:

I'm surprised that not one commenter from either side bothered considering the most obvious reason why Weberman may have received his unreasonably harsh sentence. If in fact it's true that he was given an opportunity to plead guilty and would have received a sentence of 5yrs and avoided a massive desecration of hashem's name, it would be of no surprise to us, given the fact that Satmar has taken their dispute to the secular courts, which according to Rashi in parshas mishpotim clearly calls it a complete desecration of Hashems name. The fact that its being done in public makes it a sin that one must give up his life for.
Wouldn't the result of this case be the " Midah Kineged Middah "???!
Play in the secular court system and desecrate Hashems name gets you exactly what you've asked for ! Keep doing it and this will only be the beginning of the end of the holy dynasty Rav Yoel started.
Time to wake up. Doesn't matter which Rebbe you like. Both are equally guilty. Fighting for money, false pride , and worst of all , pure Gayvah.
As the mishna in Avos warns " Gayvah will take your common sense away "
Time to set a better example to your followers.

you are an idiot. both parties in this case were jewish, which blows up your stupid theory. and Jews are in court every day of the week, lying, cheating and stealing without a second thought.

the reason no one but you suggested this theory is, I guess, no other commenter is as ignorant as you.

136

 Jan 27, 2013 at 09:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #116  
Sherree Says:

Can you tell me why you think you know more facts in the case than I do?

Sherree Says: “ Can you tell me why you think you know more facts in the case than I do? ”

Sheree, the only FACTS are that he was found guilty, he was sent to prison, and all attempt to free him so far have failed.

Your opinions are not facts. the commenter's opinions you dispute are not facts. That he is a convicted felon is a fact. That he is in prison, and that he will likely stay there for the foreseeable future is a fact.

If you have any additional actual facts, not opinions, that showed SMR to be innocent, you should have submitted them to the court, not blathered on about them here after his conviction.

137

 Jan 27, 2013 at 09:37 PM esther Says:

Reply to #103  
Azoiy Says:

How sad... Most bloggers are actually happy that Weberman received 103 years. "He deserves it". "About time". "Justice is served, finally", etc. etc. How sad...
Don't get me wrong. I am not sticking up for Weberman nor Satmar. What ever happened to "hilchos yichud"??? Where is human decency?? Since when is he licensed to deal with this type of stuff??
But let me ask you all two questions:
1) According to Din Torah he would never have been convicted - no 2 kosher witnesses. Circumstancial eveidence means nothing. Yes, he would have surely received "malkus mardus" - but thats it!
So you don't believe in our Torah as being just?
2) If this had c"v been your child c"v sitting in Webermans position - would you be so vindictive and ready-to-hang", or would you have been more "dan k'kaf zchus"??
Think about it
How sad...

i believe rav moshe paskened that in our time the death penalty is needed, as administered by the US justice system, to help deter such crimes.i'm wondering why this wouldn't apply to rape and molestation as well.

138

 Jan 27, 2013 at 09:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #130  
Sherree Says:

I will explain it to you one more time. Follow the outline:

1. I am close to the family so I know the story intimately
2. The raid was based on a false report
3. The raid was staged with the knowledge, cooperation and guidance of the Judge
4. Millions of dollars was spent on a raid that was expected to turn up a barrage of guns and drugs. They found nothing. The raid was a bust and was a total waist of taxpayer funds.
5. They came in as if they were attacking enemy territory, never in the history of US did the Justice department every attack a US corporation in such a fashion.
6. They were humiliated but instead of offering an apology, they wanted to justify their mistake and went after the company and family with everything they had.
7. They had nothing and crawled up and down the company and family looking for something to pin on them and found nothing.
8. This caused the family to choose to sell the business but the government did NOT allow them to sell it at market value. Never in the history of the US government has something of this nature happened to a US citizen.
9. The Justice department and its prosecutors deliberately chose to bankrupt the family.
cont.

if what you say is true, there is a very big lawsuit here.

why haven't you or anyone else so "close to the family" pursued that?

139

 Jan 27, 2013 at 10:20 PM Gays may be comming next Says:

Torah stricktly prohibits Gays (death sentence) for both Jew and Gentile (7 laws).
Torah does not place child molestation as an Isur for itself.

Secular law is the opposite.
Gays are permitted (and it is prohibited to discriminate against them).
Child molestation is considered a crime. (I agree to this that times changed and it has harsh effects on a child)

When Hynes finishes forcing Rabbonim to Posken for his agendas in child molestation, the Gays are headed our way.

A Rov may soon be required to marry two men (and "not discriminate").
A teacher could be sentenced to jail for mistreatment of a student who wants to be gay (if the student stands forward).

You could laugh all you want at me but some Churches out there are already performing such marriages despite that they so called follow our Torah (they call it "old").

141

 Jan 27, 2013 at 10:31 PM Chaim! Says:

Reply to #125  
yunggrama Says:

It all starts with the kids who think they r smarter then eveyone and misbehave. if she would of listened to her parents all this would of never happened! she put herself into this on her own! She was and is a rebellious kid and still is! With her ,and the many like her ,this is not the end! She is young and this is only the begining! And all of you posting on her behalf have caused their parents lots of heartaches as well. Mr. Weberman like many other "so called chasidish therapists" should go find any other means of setting food on the table! This kind of" help" should be left to the non religious therapists!

yunggrama Says: Says:
“ It all starts with the kids who think they r smarter then eveyone and misbehave. if she would of listened to her parents all this would of never happened! she put herself into this on her own! She was and is a rebellious kid and still is! With her ,and the many like her ,this is not the end! She is young and this is only the begining! And all of you posting on her behalf have caused their parents lots of heartaches as well. Mr. Weberman like many other "so called chasidish therapists" should go find any other means of setting food on the table! This kind of" help" should be left to the non religious therapists! ”

Lets see you go through some Weberman Therapy sessions and still act 100% normal.
You are a cold blooded sack! I pity your kids! Shame on you!

This victim was an incredible witness on the stand for 4 days straight, while your buddy folded on the stand like a cheap camera in 2 1/2 seconds.

Knucker, lets see you send your kids to him now! Put your money where your brain is!

143

 Jan 27, 2013 at 10:42 PM Dovid Hamelech Says:

Reply to #119  
Smith Says:

you not?

I think that as bad as this Yid ruined the girls life and the girl may never recover, (which is the one single reason he should be sitting in prison - not because he went against Torah-)
It breaks my heart to see a Yid sentenced to 103 years in prison for a crime that 99.9 get a much lesser sentence, and many such criminals would even go free due to lack of evidence.
Either everyone sits or everyone free. A Jew should not sit a single day more regardless of any disputes between the Jews and the DA.

144

 Jan 27, 2013 at 11:29 PM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #130  
Sherree Says:

I will explain it to you one more time. Follow the outline:

1. I am close to the family so I know the story intimately
2. The raid was based on a false report
3. The raid was staged with the knowledge, cooperation and guidance of the Judge
4. Millions of dollars was spent on a raid that was expected to turn up a barrage of guns and drugs. They found nothing. The raid was a bust and was a total waist of taxpayer funds.
5. They came in as if they were attacking enemy territory, never in the history of US did the Justice department every attack a US corporation in such a fashion.
6. They were humiliated but instead of offering an apology, they wanted to justify their mistake and went after the company and family with everything they had.
7. They had nothing and crawled up and down the company and family looking for something to pin on them and found nothing.
8. This caused the family to choose to sell the business but the government did NOT allow them to sell it at market value. Never in the history of the US government has something of this nature happened to a US citizen.
9. The Justice department and its prosecutors deliberately chose to bankrupt the family.
cont.

Part # 1
I do appreciate your honesty, and tell us you are a close acquaintance of the Rubashkin family. That explains why you staked out that position. The same could be said about the people on this site who support Weberman, they are part of the Satmer family, and therefore they see it different.
Here is a concise rebuttal to your points.
Point 2; it is totally irrelevant what prompted the raid, if it was illegal aliens or drugs and guns, the bottom line is they uncovered a fraud of 12M dollars.
Point 3; the appellate courts disagreed with your argument, and Judge Reade did explain that she was only involved in a logistical capacity as the Chief Justices of that district.
Point 4; it is totally irrelevant how much the raid cost; the cost doesn’t exonerate or inculpate SMR.
Point 5; don’t see the amount of force used in the raid as having any illumination on the fact of this case.

145

 Jan 27, 2013 at 11:30 PM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #130  
Sherree Says:

I will explain it to you one more time. Follow the outline:

1. I am close to the family so I know the story intimately
2. The raid was based on a false report
3. The raid was staged with the knowledge, cooperation and guidance of the Judge
4. Millions of dollars was spent on a raid that was expected to turn up a barrage of guns and drugs. They found nothing. The raid was a bust and was a total waist of taxpayer funds.
5. They came in as if they were attacking enemy territory, never in the history of US did the Justice department every attack a US corporation in such a fashion.
6. They were humiliated but instead of offering an apology, they wanted to justify their mistake and went after the company and family with everything they had.
7. They had nothing and crawled up and down the company and family looking for something to pin on them and found nothing.
8. This caused the family to choose to sell the business but the government did NOT allow them to sell it at market value. Never in the history of the US government has something of this nature happened to a US citizen.
9. The Justice department and its prosecutors deliberately chose to bankrupt the family.
cont.

Part # 2

Point 6; I don’t see any reason the Feds should apologies for the raid, the fact it they did arrest almost 400 illegals.
Point 7; they did find the fraud, regardless how you look at falsifying receivables to get cash flow.
8; I disagree that they couldn’t sell the business at market value, not because the government obstructed, because the buyers found out that the receivables were inflated by more than 12 million dollars, the value of the company diapered overnight. Who in their right mind would even consider paying full price, when the receivables are inflated by 12 Million dollars? For the last 10 years the business was losing money that is why they had to inflate the receivables to get cash flow for operation capital.
9; it was the direct result from inflating your receivables and inventory for almost 10 years, government didn’t need to do anything.

146

 Jan 27, 2013 at 11:38 PM Mark Levin Says:

I guess VIN "News Staff" doesn't know that the statement, "Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, vice president of Agudath Israel of America, a nonprofit with links to Brooklyn’s Satmar community...," is a load of hogwash?!?!?

147

 Jan 27, 2013 at 11:41 PM Hynes Victory Says:

Reply to #119  
Smith Says:

you not?

I see Hynes had at least one major victory.
People are now saying that 103 years is a lot but............... 5 years is very little.

I don't know if this guy is totally, partially, or not at all guilty.

Imagine how an innocent person feels spending just one day in a prison full of rapists and criminals? Would that person ever recover?
B"H I never experienced either of the two and - Hashem should watch over me -but I wonder what is worse and what takes more time to get over:
A girl molested?
Or an innocent man in prison? (never mind that he was plastered all over the news -possibly by a girl he never molested-)?

Both of the two are very tragic.

148

 Jan 28, 2013 at 12:27 AM Sherree Says:

Reply to #136  
Anonymous Says:

Sherree Says: “ Can you tell me why you think you know more facts in the case than I do? ”

Sheree, the only FACTS are that he was found guilty, he was sent to prison, and all attempt to free him so far have failed.

Your opinions are not facts. the commenter's opinions you dispute are not facts. That he is a convicted felon is a fact. That he is in prison, and that he will likely stay there for the foreseeable future is a fact.

If you have any additional actual facts, not opinions, that showed SMR to be innocent, you should have submitted them to the court, not blathered on about them here after his conviction.

For your information MR. ANONYMOUS, I have said this many, many times before his conviction, as I also said that the Judge was in it from the beginning and that she should have recused herself. You can research the archives right here on VIN to check. I have known these facts from the beginning and I have not changed my position from the beginning. From day one when so many were jumping on the bandwagon saying shmutz and loshon horah about him, I told the truth and I still am, but this is not a thread about HIM, it is a thread about a monster, and the two should never be discussed at the same time in the same space.

149

 Jan 28, 2013 at 12:32 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #145  
JoeGrossJR Says:

Part # 2

Point 6; I don’t see any reason the Feds should apologies for the raid, the fact it they did arrest almost 400 illegals.
Point 7; they did find the fraud, regardless how you look at falsifying receivables to get cash flow.
8; I disagree that they couldn’t sell the business at market value, not because the government obstructed, because the buyers found out that the receivables were inflated by more than 12 million dollars, the value of the company diapered overnight. Who in their right mind would even consider paying full price, when the receivables are inflated by 12 Million dollars? For the last 10 years the business was losing money that is why they had to inflate the receivables to get cash flow for operation capital.
9; it was the direct result from inflating your receivables and inventory for almost 10 years, government didn’t need to do anything.

Mr. JoeGrossJR:
I don't know if your Jewish.
You seem to be a big fan of long sentences for Jews.

I have one question:
I personally visited various non Jewish farms including milk farms in NY state as well as other states. I never saw any legal worker doing the dirty jobs under those cows milking. Every single farm that I visited had spanish speaking people that were paid cash only. The government is well aware of this and does nothing (possibly in order to keep milk prices low).
Not so was with the largest Kosher meat plant owned by Rubashkin.

If the government really cared about illegal workers, why has not one milk farm inspector done anything about this.

To me and to many this seems to be pure anti semitism. Some people cannot handle seeing a Frum Jew so successful.
A Judge who kept her meetings with the prosecuters a secret is a fair Judge?
The appeals as well as the Supreme court rarely ever overturn a ruling (the supreme court only looks at around 100 cases from the 10,000 cases they receive annually).

150

 Jan 28, 2013 at 12:34 AM Sherree Says:

Reply to #145  
JoeGrossJR Says:

Part # 2

Point 6; I don’t see any reason the Feds should apologies for the raid, the fact it they did arrest almost 400 illegals.
Point 7; they did find the fraud, regardless how you look at falsifying receivables to get cash flow.
8; I disagree that they couldn’t sell the business at market value, not because the government obstructed, because the buyers found out that the receivables were inflated by more than 12 million dollars, the value of the company diapered overnight. Who in their right mind would even consider paying full price, when the receivables are inflated by 12 Million dollars? For the last 10 years the business was losing money that is why they had to inflate the receivables to get cash flow for operation capital.
9; it was the direct result from inflating your receivables and inventory for almost 10 years, government didn’t need to do anything.

I am not here to debate this with you, I can't control anyone but myself and I can't change anyone but myself. So you are free to think and believe whatever you choose but I don't know where you get your facts because to me it is all fallacy and means nothing. I know the truth and I have said it from the beginning, many, many people who have said the absolute worst about SMR have changed their minds and asked mechilah but if you wish to continue believing the worst, then do so. That is your prerogative and it is NOT my job to change your mind. No matter how many times you choose to say it, it will still NOT make it the truth. Whatever paperwork was falsified it had only to do with the bank applications and not with the sale of he business. But rumors go around and people love to talk and add their own spices to a story. So keep speaking the loshon hora and add your own spices to the mix, it still wont change the facts or the truth and it still won't make me debate you about it.

151

 Jan 28, 2013 at 12:37 AM Sherree Says:

Reply to #143  
Dovid Hamelech Says:

I think that as bad as this Yid ruined the girls life and the girl may never recover, (which is the one single reason he should be sitting in prison - not because he went against Torah-)
It breaks my heart to see a Yid sentenced to 103 years in prison for a crime that 99.9 get a much lesser sentence, and many such criminals would even go free due to lack of evidence.
Either everyone sits or everyone free. A Jew should not sit a single day more regardless of any disputes between the Jews and the DA.

Do you feel the same way about Madoff? Because he is also a Jew and his crime had only to do with money. Does your heart break for him as well? Or are you only worried about a frum jew or a chassid? Because in that case let me remind you that you can't consider him FRUM when he has no yiras shamayim. Because anyone who can sin against Hashem and do such things to young children knowing all the while that Hashem is watching has absolutely NO YIRAS SHAMAYIM.

152

 Jan 28, 2013 at 12:44 AM Rubashkin case Says:

Reply to #145  
JoeGrossJR Says:

Part # 2

Point 6; I don’t see any reason the Feds should apologies for the raid, the fact it they did arrest almost 400 illegals.
Point 7; they did find the fraud, regardless how you look at falsifying receivables to get cash flow.
8; I disagree that they couldn’t sell the business at market value, not because the government obstructed, because the buyers found out that the receivables were inflated by more than 12 million dollars, the value of the company diapered overnight. Who in their right mind would even consider paying full price, when the receivables are inflated by 12 Million dollars? For the last 10 years the business was losing money that is why they had to inflate the receivables to get cash flow for operation capital.
9; it was the direct result from inflating your receivables and inventory for almost 10 years, government didn’t need to do anything.

How many millions of Americans lied to banks about their income to banks in the 2006 housing bubble? (Do some research about "lie mortgages")

How were many Americans punished?
When they did not have enough money to pay the banks back the loan, the banks were not able to take away the homes because the banks did have all the paperwork or other legal problems that banks are now facing.

How was Rubashkin Punished?
Rubashkin who's company was rich and was actually paying back the banks (until the government raid that bankrupted him) got 27 years in prison (by a judge who secretly helped plan the raid).

153

 Jan 28, 2013 at 12:45 AM Sherree Says:

Reply to #143  
Dovid Hamelech Says:

I think that as bad as this Yid ruined the girls life and the girl may never recover, (which is the one single reason he should be sitting in prison - not because he went against Torah-)
It breaks my heart to see a Yid sentenced to 103 years in prison for a crime that 99.9 get a much lesser sentence, and many such criminals would even go free due to lack of evidence.
Either everyone sits or everyone free. A Jew should not sit a single day more regardless of any disputes between the Jews and the DA.

Michael Louis McIntosh stood next to his attorney with his head down as Judge Howard Maltz told him Friday morning that he would spend the rest of his life in prison.

“The testimony that came out during trial revealed that your conduct was nothing short of despicable,” Maltz told him. “By your actions, you’ve sentenced the victims in this case to a life sentence of emotional turmoil that can’t be undone.

“Your conduct has demonstrated that you do not deserve to walk this earth as a free man. With my sentence today, I’m going to assure that that’s the case.”

In all, McIntosh, 32, of St. Augustine, received seven life sentences, three of which were to be served consecutively. He was found guilty Thursday of eight felony counts of sexual misconduct with children.
Michael Louis McIntosh stood next to his attorney with his head down as Judge Howard Maltz told him Friday morning that he would spend the rest of his life in prison.

“The testimony that came out during trial revealed that your conduct was nothing short of despicable,” Maltz told him. “By your actions, you’ve sentenced the victims in this case to a life sentence of emotional turmoil that can’t be undone.

154

 Jan 28, 2013 at 01:29 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #147  
Hynes Victory Says:

I see Hynes had at least one major victory.
People are now saying that 103 years is a lot but............... 5 years is very little.

I don't know if this guy is totally, partially, or not at all guilty.

Imagine how an innocent person feels spending just one day in a prison full of rapists and criminals? Would that person ever recover?
B"H I never experienced either of the two and - Hashem should watch over me -but I wonder what is worse and what takes more time to get over:
A girl molested?
Or an innocent man in prison? (never mind that he was plastered all over the news -possibly by a girl he never molested-)?

Both of the two are very tragic.

there are plenty of innocent men in prison.

unfortunately for you, weberman isn't one of them.

155

 Jan 28, 2013 at 02:59 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #128  
OyVeyismir Says:

I'm surprised that not one commenter from either side bothered considering the most obvious reason why Weberman may have received his unreasonably harsh sentence. If in fact it's true that he was given an opportunity to plead guilty and would have received a sentence of 5yrs and avoided a massive desecration of hashem's name, it would be of no surprise to us, given the fact that Satmar has taken their dispute to the secular courts, which according to Rashi in parshas mishpotim clearly calls it a complete desecration of Hashems name. The fact that its being done in public makes it a sin that one must give up his life for.
Wouldn't the result of this case be the " Midah Kineged Middah "???!
Play in the secular court system and desecrate Hashems name gets you exactly what you've asked for ! Keep doing it and this will only be the beginning of the end of the holy dynasty Rav Yoel started.
Time to wake up. Doesn't matter which Rebbe you like. Both are equally guilty. Fighting for money, false pride , and worst of all , pure Gayvah.
As the mishna in Avos warns " Gayvah will take your common sense away "
Time to set a better example to your followers.

In response to your diatribe, please note my comments posted. (#122)

156

 Jan 28, 2013 at 03:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #133  
Sherree Says:

Shame on you for being motzi shem rah on this young girl. She was a rebellious kid because she asked why she has to wear such thick itchy tights? That makes her rebellious? Do you know her personally that you can say anything about her. You disgust me!

Yes, Sherree, she was already very rebellious when she was able to wear whatever tights she wanted. I know for a fact that she gave the teachers a very hard time. There are many more circumstances in this sordid case that were not revealed at trial that might have affected the outcome of this case.
That does not in any way mean that she was lying on the stand. Her testimony was entirely believable.
By the way, what are 'thick itchy tights'? The high school girls wear the same stockings, made of the same material, you do. The only differences are that they are of a higher denier (to make them less sheer) and they are seamed.

157

 Jan 28, 2013 at 05:28 AM naisgal Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

What kind of links does Agudah have to Satmar? Both being ultra orthodox, but that is about it.

Yeshivish men and women also appear clearly dressed in modest Jewish attire, with hats and tsisit etc, and could be be lumped with Satmar, although as a rule they do would not be so relucatnt to go to authorities or ostracize a family/child who does.

158

 Jan 28, 2013 at 05:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
bubii Says:

This outcome of weberman getting 103 years is the direct result of them the satmerers letting molestations go for over 2 decades they have no one to blame but themselfs they knew theese things were happening in their midst but they chose not to do anything about it ,this sentence is a way punishment for the past indifference that the leadership showed for the innocent helpless children who were molested over 2 decades so lets not cry now .

Hynes is saying it will be reduced to 50 years on appeal. What difference is it if he is 54 he will still spend his life in prison.

159

 Jan 28, 2013 at 05:41 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #121  
Anonymous Says:

The parents of 12 year old Yiddeshe maideles can sleep sounder for the next ONE HUNDRED AND THREE YEARS!

Unfortunately NOT. Until the Satmar Rebbe stops permitting the vilifying of the girl and accepting that she was corrupted more than she started out, the Satmar will cover up these deeds. They are raising money for his appeal! Wake up, there is another one around the corner, and Satmar will support the next one unless it is clear their are no stepchildren here. Every Jewess is a daughter and prescious, leading the way to geula.

160

 Jan 28, 2013 at 09:10 AM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #149  
Anonymous Says:

Mr. JoeGrossJR:
I don't know if your Jewish.
You seem to be a big fan of long sentences for Jews.

I have one question:
I personally visited various non Jewish farms including milk farms in NY state as well as other states. I never saw any legal worker doing the dirty jobs under those cows milking. Every single farm that I visited had spanish speaking people that were paid cash only. The government is well aware of this and does nothing (possibly in order to keep milk prices low).
Not so was with the largest Kosher meat plant owned by Rubashkin.

If the government really cared about illegal workers, why has not one milk farm inspector done anything about this.

To me and to many this seems to be pure anti semitism. Some people cannot handle seeing a Frum Jew so successful.
A Judge who kept her meetings with the prosecuters a secret is a fair Judge?
The appeals as well as the Supreme court rarely ever overturn a ruling (the supreme court only looks at around 100 cases from the 10,000 cases they receive annually).

To begin with not only am I Jewish but I was raised in Satmer community, I am a product of the Satmer Yeshiva when it was at 167 Sands St., and the old Satmer Rebbe was still healthy and use to come to the Yeshiva and test us on the weekly Talmud portion.

That said, generally I am not a proponent of long sentences for white collar crimes and even the three strikes and you out law I disagree with and for years I signed petitions to change it. So don’t say that I am for long incarcerations. But, both the Weberman, and SMR cases, have one thing in common, after the conviction but of them failed to show any contrition, which is an integral part of sentencing.

People on this site fail to recognize, that when it comes to sentencing one off the most important aspect of the judge’s rule is to decide, if the convict is showing any contrition, not if he is guilty or not, that the jury already decided, and both convict failed to show any remorse and willing to take responsibility. That is why they wound up getting harsh and long sentences.

161

 Jan 28, 2013 at 09:30 AM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #150  
Sherree Says:

I am not here to debate this with you, I can't control anyone but myself and I can't change anyone but myself. So you are free to think and believe whatever you choose but I don't know where you get your facts because to me it is all fallacy and means nothing. I know the truth and I have said it from the beginning, many, many people who have said the absolute worst about SMR have changed their minds and asked mechilah but if you wish to continue believing the worst, then do so. That is your prerogative and it is NOT my job to change your mind. No matter how many times you choose to say it, it will still NOT make it the truth. Whatever paperwork was falsified it had only to do with the bank applications and not with the sale of he business. But rumors go around and people love to talk and add their own spices to a story. So keep speaking the loshon hora and add your own spices to the mix, it still wont change the facts or the truth and it still won't make me debate you about it.

Sherree;
I had no intention of debating the SMR case, I was only intrigued with the fact that in the Weberman case you are showing your capacity to drill down to the real facts and discern between the facts and hyperbole. Nevertheless, in the SMR case you didn’t use your ability in the same manner. You illuminated me with the fact that you have some type relationship with the SMR and his family. I am not trying to convince you of anything, I know it is not going to happen but, I do appreciate the discussion we had.

162

 Jan 28, 2013 at 09:32 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #159  
Anonymous Says:

Unfortunately NOT. Until the Satmar Rebbe stops permitting the vilifying of the girl and accepting that she was corrupted more than she started out, the Satmar will cover up these deeds. They are raising money for his appeal! Wake up, there is another one around the corner, and Satmar will support the next one unless it is clear their are no stepchildren here. Every Jewess is a daughter and prescious, leading the way to geula.

You think if the Satmar Rebbe says something, everyone listens blindly? In other chassidic groups, yes, but in Satmar the Torah comes first. The Torah is clear that a mechalel shabbos has no neemanus. This girl has been seen smoking on shabbos, as her husband has as well. They have no neemanus.

163

 Jan 28, 2013 at 09:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #157  
naisgal Says:

Yeshivish men and women also appear clearly dressed in modest Jewish attire, with hats and tsisit etc, and could be be lumped with Satmar, although as a rule they do would not be so relucatnt to go to authorities or ostracize a family/child who does.

There are just as many cover ups in the yeshivish and modern orthodox communut

164

 Jan 28, 2013 at 09:38 AM Rubashkin VS Weberman Says:

Both were convicted on 59 counts (exact same number)?
Do I have it right?

165

 Jan 28, 2013 at 09:42 AM Rubashkin Case Says:

Reply to #144  
JoeGrossJR Says:

Part # 1
I do appreciate your honesty, and tell us you are a close acquaintance of the Rubashkin family. That explains why you staked out that position. The same could be said about the people on this site who support Weberman, they are part of the Satmer family, and therefore they see it different.
Here is a concise rebuttal to your points.
Point 2; it is totally irrelevant what prompted the raid, if it was illegal aliens or drugs and guns, the bottom line is they uncovered a fraud of 12M dollars.
Point 3; the appellate courts disagreed with your argument, and Judge Reade did explain that she was only involved in a logistical capacity as the Chief Justices of that district.
Point 4; it is totally irrelevant how much the raid cost; the cost doesn’t exonerate or inculpate SMR.
Point 5; don’t see the amount of force used in the raid as having any illumination on the fact of this case.

On day one, When Judge Reade tells Rubashkin:
"You can't go out on bail because you are Jewish and therefore a risk of flying to Israel".
I wonder where this country is headed.

166

 Jan 28, 2013 at 09:44 AM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #152  
Rubashkin case Says:

How many millions of Americans lied to banks about their income to banks in the 2006 housing bubble? (Do some research about "lie mortgages")

How were many Americans punished?
When they did not have enough money to pay the banks back the loan, the banks were not able to take away the homes because the banks did have all the paperwork or other legal problems that banks are now facing.

How was Rubashkin Punished?
Rubashkin who's company was rich and was actually paying back the banks (until the government raid that bankrupted him) got 27 years in prison (by a judge who secretly helped plan the raid).

If you think that the SMR case is akin to an application for a credit card, or a mortgage, than it makes no sense to debate with you the SMR case. Secondly, before you want to get into a debate, you need to get familiar with the real facts of the case, at that point in time you wouldn’t claim that he paid back the banks, you would understand that he only paid back the interest not the principal, which means with new loans he paid interest on the existing loan, not from the profits and that is why it is called fraud, as a Ponzi scheme.

167

 Jan 28, 2013 at 09:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #109  
Sherree Says:

Let me just explain that a little bit better. When you set up a charity organization also known as a "non-profit 501C3" non taxable corp" you have to state on the application what type of non-profit it is and what the money will be used for. When you are approved for that non-profit, you can not use the money for any other purpose other than for what that non-profit was set up to do. If the non-profit was set up to help poor people put food on their table, then that is what the money has to go for. If the non-profit was set up to pay for poor people's tuition or education then that is what you have to use it for. If the non-profit is set up to help at-risk kids get therapy then that is what it has to be used for. You can't just use the funds for whatever you want, that is considered Fraud. You will never get approved on your application if you say "I will use it at my discretion for whatever I want". Do you understand that now??

So let him get convicted for fraud and not a crime he was framed fot

168

 Jan 28, 2013 at 09:52 AM Safe streets? Says:

Reply to #121  
Anonymous Says:

The parents of 12 year old Yiddeshe maideles can sleep sounder for the next ONE HUNDRED AND THREE YEARS!

"The parents of 12 year old can sleep sounder"

1- There are thousands of pedephiles on the streets of Brooklyn.
No matter how many hundereds of Jewish pedephiles Mr. Hynes locks up there will be little difference.

2- Also (assumning Webermen is guilty) I don't see him as a threat to the average Jewish girl. He does not work in a girl school and he does not catch girls off the street. He is a threat to parents that hand their daughters to male therapists.

169

 Jan 28, 2013 at 10:17 AM MidwesternGuy Says:

Reply to #133  
Sherree Says:

Shame on you for being motzi shem rah on this young girl. She was a rebellious kid because she asked why she has to wear such thick itchy tights? That makes her rebellious? Do you know her personally that you can say anything about her. You disgust me!

Technically, this is called "blaming the victim" and it's just so disgusting. I have a feeling that because of the attitudes displayed here such as, but not limited to:
1) Constantly saying that the Torah requires proper aydus (it doesn't in this case, and anyone who learned more than one siman of choshen mishpot would know), thereby implying that dina d'malchusa shouldn't apply

2) Blaming the victim, as this awful person just did

3) Encouraging people to cover up abuse, as illustrated by this very article.

4) Fund raisers to help the criminal rather than the victim

5) The view of unzerer vs. everyone else, no matter which way the chips fall.

Because of these things, I have a feeling that Satmar will continue to be subject to all kinds of investigations. If the vast majority of the frum oilam think that the above items are disgusting, how do you think the rest of the world feels?

170

 Jan 28, 2013 at 10:21 AM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #165  
Rubashkin Case Says:

On day one, When Judge Reade tells Rubashkin:
"You can't go out on bail because you are Jewish and therefore a risk of flying to Israel".
I wonder where this country is headed.

It wasn’t that simple, Judge Reade was concerned that SMR might flee, because law enforcement found a satchel with passport and cash in it. Some argue it was one dollar denominations which was used be the Rebbe as a mitzvah gift, but how would the Judge in a faraway state understand that, the bottom line is that eventually Judge Reade did release SMR on bail.

171

 Jan 28, 2013 at 10:56 AM Sherree Says:

Reply to #167  
Anonymous Says:

So let him get convicted for fraud and not a crime he was framed fot

I see you have been drinking he Koolaid. Exactly what crime was he framed for? The term "being framed" by definition means that someone sets up another person to make it appear that they did something that they didn't do. For the thousandth time, his own Defense team proved that he had Yichud with the victim. His own defense team proved that he was Moiser on the victim. He himself proved that he was a snitch, he lied about being a counselor and a Rabbi. He stole from his Charity fund and committed Fraud by using those funds for anything other than charity. He has no cheskas kashrus, so nothing he says can be believed, and yet you believe he was framed? Are you saying that someone forced a dibuk into him and caused him to molest these victims?

172

 Jan 29, 2013 at 03:59 AM naisgal Says:

Reply to #168  
Safe streets? Says:

"The parents of 12 year old can sleep sounder"

1- There are thousands of pedephiles on the streets of Brooklyn.
No matter how many hundereds of Jewish pedephiles Mr. Hynes locks up there will be little difference.

2- Also (assumning Webermen is guilty) I don't see him as a threat to the average Jewish girl. He does not work in a girl school and he does not catch girls off the street. He is a threat to parents that hand their daughters to male therapists.

So it is the parenstfault now because the principal recommended him for their daughter and they rightfully believed therapy was a positive action?
What happened to areivim zu lazu? If he doesn't grab a child off the street but has one sent to him then no one need be concerned what happens to "those" girls?
Disgusting. His every aveira pollutes the air in the universe.

173

 Jan 29, 2013 at 04:06 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #162  
Anonymous Says:

You think if the Satmar Rebbe says something, everyone listens blindly? In other chassidic groups, yes, but in Satmar the Torah comes first. The Torah is clear that a mechalel shabbos has no neemanus. This girl has been seen smoking on shabbos, as her husband has as well. They have no neemanus.

Smoking on Shabbos means she can be raped or molested? We are allowed to do teshuva so if at 12 she did this she has a good chance to do a turnaround. Youthful mistakes do not make one a rasha forever..

174

 Jan 29, 2013 at 04:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #130  
Sherree Says:

I will explain it to you one more time. Follow the outline:

1. I am close to the family so I know the story intimately
2. The raid was based on a false report
3. The raid was staged with the knowledge, cooperation and guidance of the Judge
4. Millions of dollars was spent on a raid that was expected to turn up a barrage of guns and drugs. They found nothing. The raid was a bust and was a total waist of taxpayer funds.
5. They came in as if they were attacking enemy territory, never in the history of US did the Justice department every attack a US corporation in such a fashion.
6. They were humiliated but instead of offering an apology, they wanted to justify their mistake and went after the company and family with everything they had.
7. They had nothing and crawled up and down the company and family looking for something to pin on them and found nothing.
8. This caused the family to choose to sell the business but the government did NOT allow them to sell it at market value. Never in the history of the US government has something of this nature happened to a US citizen.
9. The Justice department and its prosecutors deliberately chose to bankrupt the family.
cont.

Sheree, sorry but you are completely wrong on much of what you wrote. I agree that as a family and as human beings they were kind people and did chesed. But only one helicopter came and they defrauded 21 million and would never ever ever have been able to pay it off. Loans are given per income and ability to pay back. If you get a credit card extending you to but 300k saying you make 100k but make 20, you will not be able to pay that back. Saying to a bank you have so much money coming in, but do not, means no different than you robbed the bank at gunpoint. It is stealing. And the kids he hired ( though he was found not to know this) were underage, so they did not pay taxes on earnings. I am sad for the family, but this is and was a crime.

175

 Jan 29, 2013 at 09:36 AM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #174  
Anonymous Says:

Sheree, sorry but you are completely wrong on much of what you wrote. I agree that as a family and as human beings they were kind people and did chesed. But only one helicopter came and they defrauded 21 million and would never ever ever have been able to pay it off. Loans are given per income and ability to pay back. If you get a credit card extending you to but 300k saying you make 100k but make 20, you will not be able to pay that back. Saying to a bank you have so much money coming in, but do not, means no different than you robbed the bank at gunpoint. It is stealing. And the kids he hired ( though he was found not to know this) were underage, so they did not pay taxes on earnings. I am sad for the family, but this is and was a crime.

I am starting to feel like a referee, calling out both sides of the divide. To begin with, the SMR case is nothing like a credit card application. When you lie and exaggerate your income to get a credit card, that doesn’t mean that you intended to over charge and not pay. Sometimes human nature takes over and you extend yourself but that wasn’t the original intention.
In the SMR case every time when they send in a purported new sale invoices, which was not legit, they intentionally deceived the bank to raise case for the purpose of getting operating capital, not replenishing inventory, as per “factoring arrangement”, That is a pure fraud.
SMR as the manager from a large business knew or, should have known that if 12 million dollars of the 36 million dollars credit extended is fraud. Understanding, that 36% off you total loan is not legit, he understood that the time will come and when the business will go bankrupt, (for all intense and purposes it was already bankrupted) that is why he had arguments with his brother that they are using too much laborers. Because he understood the dire circumstances he found himself in.

176

 Jan 29, 2013 at 10:01 AM Insider Says:

The excuse that the girl was wild is unacceptable. Even if she was the worst wanton woman, at any age, is not heter excuse for a man to touch her, let alone do what Weberman did. Further, if she was only 12, he only made her more wanton. No question, Weberman not only deserved the 103 years, he earned it. No ehrleche yid would even dream of doing what he did. Gehenom is too good for him. It's a rachmonos for the girl, for Mrs. Chaya Weberman (nebech) and for his children. That the whole Satmar supported him, and still does, is a shanda, charpa, bisha, and huza. Reb Aaaron, too, b'mechulas kevodo, did wrong to say anything, especially negatively about the girl (a product of his beis rochel).

177

 Jan 30, 2013 at 03:05 AM naisgal Says:

Reply to #175  
JoeGrossJR Says:

I am starting to feel like a referee, calling out both sides of the divide. To begin with, the SMR case is nothing like a credit card application. When you lie and exaggerate your income to get a credit card, that doesn’t mean that you intended to over charge and not pay. Sometimes human nature takes over and you extend yourself but that wasn’t the original intention.
In the SMR case every time when they send in a purported new sale invoices, which was not legit, they intentionally deceived the bank to raise case for the purpose of getting operating capital, not replenishing inventory, as per “factoring arrangement”, That is a pure fraud.
SMR as the manager from a large business knew or, should have known that if 12 million dollars of the 36 million dollars credit extended is fraud. Understanding, that 36% off you total loan is not legit, he understood that the time will come and when the business will go bankrupt, (for all intense and purposes it was already bankrupted) that is why he had arguments with his brother that they are using too much laborers. Because he understood the dire circumstances he found himself in.

Those of us who do not own businesses can understand via teh example of someone who lies to get more credit extended to him on a credit card. And there are many who went on fancy trips, bought jewelry and got cars, on their credit cards, then went to credit counceling as they could not repay. I agree there is a huge difference in that they were charged usurious rates on CC and did lhatchila think they would repay. Now the point is that some people until this very day thin SMR would definitely have, given teh time, paid his loans. I know otherwise, as loans are made on teh basis of income to a company so if that income is wrong, the loan will not be repaid, as the numbers will never work. So, maybe, if the PETA people had not pointed out his hiring illegals undergage and that their accusations of animal cruelty, these monetary matters would have resulted in "a bankruptsy" rather than fraud charges. But it was discovered, and it was prosecuted, and in this case teh lawyers were indeed wrong to not advise he take a plea. Now he had frum lawyers, but who knows, they perhaps thought he had an supply of $$ to pay leagl fees and they would access it to help him. Mon trocht un Gut locht.

178

 Jan 30, 2013 at 11:47 AM JoeGrossJR Says:

Reply to #177  
naisgal Says:

Those of us who do not own businesses can understand via teh example of someone who lies to get more credit extended to him on a credit card. And there are many who went on fancy trips, bought jewelry and got cars, on their credit cards, then went to credit counceling as they could not repay. I agree there is a huge difference in that they were charged usurious rates on CC and did lhatchila think they would repay. Now the point is that some people until this very day thin SMR would definitely have, given teh time, paid his loans. I know otherwise, as loans are made on teh basis of income to a company so if that income is wrong, the loan will not be repaid, as the numbers will never work. So, maybe, if the PETA people had not pointed out his hiring illegals undergage and that their accusations of animal cruelty, these monetary matters would have resulted in "a bankruptsy" rather than fraud charges. But it was discovered, and it was prosecuted, and in this case teh lawyers were indeed wrong to not advise he take a plea. Now he had frum lawyers, but who knows, they perhaps thought he had an supply of $$ to pay leagl fees and they would access it to help him. Mon trocht un Gut locht.

I understand why you try to equate the SMR case with credit card fraud, from a legal aspect there is a relationship both are fraud. Nevertheless, the SMR case magnitude is totally dissimilar, and the sentencing guidelines takes in consideration the total loss and how many times you committed the fraud. In the SMR case, the fraud was ongoing for over ten years and the amount exceeded 12 million dollars.

In credit card application fraud, usually it is only once and they never reach the one hundred thousand dollars threshold, were the federal government will get involved.

179

 Feb 01, 2013 at 12:08 AM Anonymouss Says:

Where is Weberman going to be serving his sentence (as Rikers Island is usually used as a holding place before sentencing)

180

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