New York – New York City health officials have reported that a second infant has contracted herpes after undergoing metzitzah b’peh.
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FORWARD.com (http://bit.ly/17dqrWw) is reporting that the child came down with a fever and developed lesions in its genital area approximately one week after undergoing the controversial procedure.
The child was subsequently diagnosed with Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1.
According to the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene (DOHMH), the parents of the child failed to submit an informed consent waiver which, as of January 2013, is a requirement for the metzitzah b’peh rite.
Despite the violation, DOHMH says no legal action will be forthcoming.
According to DOHMH records, it is the 13th reported case since 2000.
The 13th case in 13 years? Also too much but not enough for all the hoopla
Rebona Shel Haolam make them stop this madness~!
NYC offical have no credibility on this issue a independent panel
Will need to confirm there findings otherwise don’t bother
…and who says that the HSV had ANYTHING to do with the bris or the MBP??? Maybe it was the nurses un-gloved finger???
This case has NOT been laboratory confirmed. {Therefore it is reported as “diagnosed with herpes”, not as a confirmed case)
In fact hospital lab results were negative for Herpes.
He is being treated in hospital as an extra precaution in case the lab results are false.
Nobody can blame the Chazal for the Herpes.
How should the Chazal have known, that were going to ignore our modern Medical Science, and follow their old doctors.
My deepest condolences to the Heartbroken Parent’s and to their whole family. Nefesh Achas Myisroel.
Why no prosecution? Their baby will be damaged for the rest of his life…herpes is forever.
It’s amazing how people will risk the lives of their children, even if its a small risk. The parents of this child probably held similar views to comments 1,4,5 and 6 above or at least foolishly listened to such driveling non-sense.
Waiting for the Bloomberg’s NYPD to start kicking down the doors of families who defy his intrusion into our 3000 year old religious rites.
Excuse me, but if you are going to insist on performing MBP, at least have the courtesy to have WEEKLY TESTS for herpes, etc.
Otherwise, I can guarantee you that sooner or later, some father of a kid you infect is going to cut off your little schmeckle before he kills you, and there isn’t a jury in America who will convict him, and I doubt many Jews who will sympathize with you.
(and this goes for those who abuse children as well. IT STOPS NOW).
Why are the Rabbonim heads in the sand? They scream that the Health Dept. has no business regulating this -perhaps they are right, but what about the innocent kids? The Chassam Sofer Mattired Not doing MBP because of this -so if you want to be Machmir at least have the Mohelim be tested and if Pos. let them take Antivirals!
Pikuach nefesh overrides every mitzvah in the Torah. Why is mbp different?
Human dignity never receives pain through a blessing. This practice should be reevaluated. Never again..
I once heard that it is not up to every Tom Dick and Harry in the butcher shop to engage in halachic arguments. As a baal teshuva, though, I can still vote with my feet and side with the gedolim who make sense to me. If a great tsaddik says mbp is a worthwhile risk, and say he’s scientifically wrong on this issue, undermining his authority and his approach to life can have also severe repercussions. What about the risk of falling off the derech, etc. What about faith in our sages. Shutting that down is quite life threatening too.
If you want MBP done on your son and you are so worried about the mohel giving herpes to your kid. How about do what I did ask mohel for permission if you can do MBP on your own son. Some mohel’s let the father help out my son’s let me do some of the cutting and the MBP. It is fathers mitzvah to do it we make the mohel our shaliach. If you feel you can do some of the bris rituals kol hakovad. This may cause less worries.
MBP takes under 5 seconds to do from my own experience, at most brises unless you watch for it you may never see it done.
To #7
Chazal knew every detail, even what goes on in Shomayim, even what will go on L’osid Lovoi. They knew about every child that’s going to get Herpes from the MBP, and they must have held that MBP is a big Chiuv to do.
When Moshe did MBP on his son Eliezer with his lips, his Aral Sefosayim got cured, and he was able to speak to Pharoh and to the Rock. Yosef did MBP on the Mitzriem when they were forced to Maleh themselves to get food by the 7 years of hunger.
Almost every person has had cold sores once in there life which usually comes from HSV1 and once you have HSV1 you have the virus in your system for life.
According to the CDC somewhere between 50% to 80% of Americans have the virus.
My point is 13 documented cases that claim that herpes come from MBP on genital area. When at least their is a bris almost every day and most mohels do MBP unless you tell them not or it is not their custom where they use a pipette. Also maybe Im mistaken but they place the pipette in their mouth near the region I do not know how that is better. I have heard of a method of using a sponge to do metziah but never heard or seen it being done.
Im not saying what should or not be done. I was suggesting if is your custom to have it done like it is mine maybe you will better do it yourself.
However, until I can see proof in one case that can trace the virus back to a mohel they I will always speculate that their may be another cause.
I know it can be transmitted in 1 or 20 seconds. I mentioned5 seconds to prove the point that MBP happens at more brises then people think then unless they pay attention for it they will miss it being done entirely that was my point nothing at all to do with viral transmission of HSV1
According to one side, Chazal was relying on the medicine of their day and would not have mbp done today. According to the other side, medical science has it wrong and putting a deceased mouth on to a wound will not infect it. Lucky we all have the Torah so we don’t go astray…
I cannot do the math as you say without the data. I want to see the data and proof that is all.
I have a whole article explaining the statistics behind and it way to complicated to discuss in this format or forum and beyond the scope of this discussion. I just don’t agree that MBP is the only possible cause. Im not denying that it is the cause. What im saying approximately 1000 brises a year where a mohel does MBP according to the article now extrapolate over 13 years 13,000 brises with 13 cases. their is a .1% chance based on history of transmission This is based on that article. The article can be found in Dialogue. Dialogue is a Jewish academic journal which in its 3rd issue discussed MBP at great length. The article is about the last 12 years and only 11 cases. I’m extrapolating
I think the real question is how many brain damaged and dead babies it will take before the Chasidishe rabbonim and members of Agudah’s Moetzes have the integrity to admit they’re wrong about MbP.
There is no halachic heter to allow MbP. In the face of any health risk halacha dictates that the medical professionals take charge. Period.
Our rabbonim, have no say in this matter.
Once medical professionals determined that MbP is dangerous the practice became ossur. Period.
Any parent who allows a mohel to perform MbP on their son is being oiver on ushmartem and is a roitzeiach. Any mohel who performs MbP is a rodef.
I suggest we stop waiting for our leaders to lead and instead use our brains and protect our children from danger.
times have changed… bugs and viruses have evolved and the practise of medicine has progressed. We dont use blood letting leaches or bainkes anymore and a real rov will defer to his doctor. for medical advice. eg cardiologist , proctologist, urologist.or heaven forbid an oncologist. He will then pray that thsi fellow should be the proper shaliach. He isnt going to eat date pits or almonds.
To ignore what trained medical professionals are saying is pure negligence.
Old habits like mbp or smoking are hard to break but as facts come to light we must act accordingly and change the habits that are life threatening and eating cholent though not so healthy doesnt quite fit that description.
i wonder if the mohel is so gung ho about mbp when the bris is being done to a large non white adult male undergoing conversion.
We all know that some babies have died. the discussion should not be about percentages. The discussion should be how do we avoid hurting another innocent vulnerable yiddishe nishama….starting now .
there isnt anything religious about being stupid.