Portland, OR – The Oregon Supreme Court today blocked a divorced former Southern Oregon man from circumcising his 12-year-old son against the wishes of the boy's mother.
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The child's mother, Lia Boldt, claims that circumcision is dangerous and that her son is afraid to say he doesn't want the procedure.
The court ordered the case back to the trial judge to determine what's the boy's wishes.
James Boldt, who converted to Judaism several years ago, wants to circumcise his son. As the custodial parent, he argued that he has wide latitude to make decisions for the boy.
The lower courts sided with the father. [oregonlive]
Al pi din he has the full authority to be megayer his son, even by force.
Just out of curiosity, where can one find this psak? Because I have always been taught that, al pi halacha, when someone becomes a ger his biological family relationships are nullified. The boy he wants to circumcise is halachically NOT his son because his former non-Jewish identity is batel. When and if this boy converts, he will be ben Avraham Avinu, not ben whatever-his-father’s-name-is.
I am very well acquainted with one family where the husband was Jewish and the wife was not, and they had kids. Years into the marriage the father decided to become religious, and the mother also explored yiddishkeit and wanted to convert.
This DID involve shailos to major poskim of the 1970s, and the result was that the mother and the minor children underwent geirus; the father and mother were literally immediately given a chasuna (since their previous marriage had no halachic validity) and the blanket teudas geirus lists the three children as bas- and ben-Avraham Avinu, not bas- and ben- their biological father.
Geirus where a family is involved, and indeed where a family can be split, is never cut and dried. What I have learned would lead me to believe that the mother is correct; the boy is not Jewish and there is no chiyuv for him to become so.
Think of this: if a father (born Jewish or converted) forcibly converts his non-Jewish son, and the son doesn’t even go ON the derech, that father will bear the achrayus for every cheit and aveira this young man does.
That’s assuming the boy’s conversion is valid. It is a general rule that if someone converts but publicly rejects the mitzvos, his conversion is held invalid and he is not recognized as a Jew.
For the record, I am a convert. My birth parents are halachically NOT my parents. My siblings and I have no shaichus to each other; indeed, al pi din I could marry my birth sister, should she convert, BECAUSE we have no halachic shaichus to each other. (al pi dina d’malchusa dina is another story entirely!)
YES HE CAN. I CAN SHOUT AS LOUDLY AS YOU. Al pi din he has the full authority to be megayer his son, even by force. But in this case there’s no need to force anything – the kid wants it. If it was a tattoo or a nose piercing the case wouldn’t even begin – he would get it and the mother would have no say in the matter. But mix religion into it and suddenly it becomes a whole case.
THIS FATHER CANT FORCE HIS RELIGION ON HIS SON WHO IS HALACHICALLY A GOY
these kind of gairus with an unstable family setting do not have good results /so yes al pi halacha the father has a point but no beisdin would go along with this
Anon of Jan 25 2:28pm, and Bigwheel: Al pi din a father has the right to be megayer his child, and he does not get to reverse it when he turns 13. There’s no shlichus involved, it’s the father’s prerogative. Indeed, even if the child is screaming that he doesn’t want it, the father has the right to take him to beis din and have him snipped and dunked and the child is Jewish. Of course the beis din may refuse to go along with this if they don’t think it’s a good idea.
In this case the question is one of secular law. The boy says he wants to have a bris, but his mother claims that she knows his “real” wishes, and he really doesn’t want it even though he says he does. If the kid wanted his nose pierced, and the custodial parent (i.e. the father) consented, he could do it and the mother would have no right to stop him, but somehow when it comes to milah it’s different.
When a Jew is circumcised it is a mitzvah d’orayta from Hashem. For a non Jew, it is a surgery and all surgeries and anesthesias have their risks.
This is ONE case where one has to ask a Shailoh. Other than the health concerns [which should be evaluated by a Physician] there are Halachic concerns. Whether the boy’s decision [to circumcise] is legally (Halachically) binding. Also, there is a question, whether his Shlichus (not the Lubavitch kind) is effective. (Since he’s under Thirteen Years old).
Intersting to note that circumcisions are done as a matter of course on two day old kids in hospitals all over this country and probably other countries as well, but as soon as it’s being done for religious purposes, all heck breaks loose and it becomes “dangerous, painful, etc….” Boy, does this Satan have his ways.
Why did he have to tell the mother?? If it was done and she found out, what was she going to do? Put it back? Sue him? FOr what?
Anon 1:55 pm. I agree that he shouldn’t have to be circumcised, but don’t bad mouth bris milah as risky and painful.
Even in an older child or adult, local anesthesia is not against hallachah.
And if it was a risky surgery (it is neither), there’d be a lot less Jews around…
I wonder if the father was megayyer k’halachah.
If he did, his Rav would certainly tell him not to circumcise his son, unless the latter wanted to be megayyer as well.
the boy is not Jewish and should not have to undergo risky and painful surgery.