Winnipeg, Canada – Products of Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation (FFMC), located in Winnipeg, Alberta, Canada have been certified by the Orthodox Union for many years. This facility, which only processes kosher fish, has been carefully reviewed and accepted by many respected kosher certifying agencies worldwide.
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Recent irresponsible and false claims have been published [including at VIN News]concerning the integrity of the hashgacha as it was administered more than seven years ago, under a previous mashgiach A”H (who is no longer living), alleging that non-kosher fish was sold as kosher. It should be noted that the writer of the piece was identified by the newspaper as “a former fish marketer who believes the FFMC’s monopoly should be broken.”
OU Kosher urges everyone to realize that charges leveled in print can be, and often are, false. The Orthodox Union urges the kosher-consuming public to recognize such spurious innuendo for its true nature.
To Anon Feb.2 8:30pm;
Indeed, until one watches a factory production start-to-finish, it is difficult to understand the intracacies in involved. When it works (which is most times), it’s thanks to the O.U., yes.
Indeed, “ingredients” are usually not under the so-called heimishe hechsher and that part of the process (producing the product) is actually not under the so-called “better” hechsher.
It is disturbing to come to that realization which one won’t admit to unless they’re at the plant.
In many cases, all the added hashgocha is, that if it wasn’t Bishul Yisroel before, now it is. But the added hashgocha did not make the food more reliably kosher. They utilized all the same ingredients that the company always did.
it doesn’t get better in kashrus than OU. When you see such vindictive stories such as the Winnipeg fish story, rest assured that there are hidden agendas with those spreading the story. The OU, has little if anything to hide. They have in place the finest and highest standards in all food industries.
wether you are pro or con YOU ALL SOUND LIKE idiots. All you guy scome across as “experts” in everything. When was the last time any blogger even went down to a company to investigate the procedures?
The only normal guy here sounds like the chasidisher man.
Policies that are not bent and changed all the time but remain as POLICIES no matter what gets my respect. The OU has policies and sticks to them and does not lie about anything.
A company is only as perfect as it’s consumers demand.
The OU just happens to have less problems and scandlas than most “chasidishe” hashgochos.
I would also venture to say that 90% of all competing agencies rely on OU somwhere down the line.
99% of ingredients is under the OU and made all around the world.
Did you know that in order to make anything you need this thing called INGREDIENTS. So stop talking out of your *&^%)))
THANK YOU.
I am a Chassidisher man. I do trust the OU on most things. But, though I trust them, I know that they use a heter I do not believe in on canned food. They do not require it to be bishul Yisroel, and I do. But they are honest about it. Their own website will tell you that their hechsher on canned food does not mean it is bishul Yisroel.
They are honest and thorough. Many of us follow minhagin which are more strict in some areas, so we can’t simply eat all the OU stuff. That does not mean we bash the OU. Their certification is one of the more reliable ones. The merchandise is as stated according to the OU policy. Just read their policy.
ANY hashgacha can have a disaster of a mashgiach who turns bad. This is awful, and can happen to ANY hashgacha. The fact that it went on for a long time is the bad thing. ALL kashrus agencies need to supervise their mashgichim better. Many, like the OU are spread too thin. In trying to get the whole US kosher, they do not have enough mashgichim or supervisors to check up on the mashgichim they have.
Also, MIRSAS is dead. Most hashgachs rely on the concept of mirsas to not have a mashgiach temidi. This is a mistake. There is no mirsas today in my humble opinion.
The story wasn’t about the reliability of the OU but about one mashgiach. If this mashgiach wasn’t doing his job, how on earth was the OU supposed to find out about it? Are they supposed to have mashgichim on the mashgichim? And then who will supervise those mashgichim? If a mashgiach doesn’t do his job it can be months or years before the hechsher finds out, and this can happen to the best hechsherim.
Recently a well-respected hechsher got a call from a company that wanted permission to change a recipe. The hechsher asked what the mashgiach had said about it, and the company said they hadn’t seen the mashgiach for years. They didn’t know there was anything wrong with that. To our mazel the goyishe company was honest and wouldn’t change anything without calling for permission, so the food was kosher all along. If they’d been dishonest they could have changed the ingredients 10 times and nobody would have known.
O GEVALD
U RAISE MANY VALID POINTS
PS EAT PAREVE KISHKA AT THE KIDUSH
ITS HEALTHIER FOR YOUR BODY AND NESHUMA!!
BTW I WOULD IMAGINE MANY HASHGOCHOS WOULDNT EAT AT THE FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS THEY CERTIFY
AS MANY ARE MAKPID TO NEVER EAT OUTSIDE THEIR OWN HOMES
“OU” DONT TRY TO GET THE OLAM TO GO EASY ON YOU BEING THE MASHGIACH HAS PASSED AWAY THAT HAS NO BEARING ON WHETHER THE STORY IS IN FACT TRUE
WHY NOT COME OUT WITH THE TRUE FACTS FOR ALL TO SEE
YOU ARE AFTER ALL ONLY HUMANS AND CAN MAKE MISTAKES JUST LIKE THE REST OF US
AND THE FACT THAT THE ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN BY SOMEONE WHO HAS AN INTREST IN BREAKING THE MONOPLY OF THIS MANUFACTURER STILL DOESNT DISPROVE HIS ALLEGATIONS JUST THAT IT SHOULD BE TAKEN WITH A GRAIN OF SALT
“OU” YOU SIDE STEPPED ALL THE ALLEGATIONS WRITTEN WHY NOT ADDRESS THEM IN PUBLIC IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE AFTER ALL ITS US THE PUBLIC WHO ARE RELYING ON YOU AND IF YOU ARE UNRELIABLE THE PUBLIC SHOULD KNOW !!
In response, let me say that I rely on the O.U., and I trust that they are doing the best they can, I personally know several of their Rabbinic advisors (Rabbis Belsky and Luban etc.) and trust them immensely.
My point was that the O.U. has taken a beating recently and somehow hasn’t impressed the kosher consumer and unfortunately, SEEMINGLY there was room to translate their rulings as a “cover-up”. While that may be a strong word, I pointed out that they need to do a better job of P.R. to acknowledge that when they do have to make a “clarification” due to an incident, they should come out “smelling like a rose” and not leave any room for doubt.
I, for one, never ate at a restaurant that had a major kashrus “expose” not too long ago, where the Mashgiach claimed something bad and he was fired etc. The O.U. says it stands by its endorsement of the place. I cannot bring myself to eat there knowing that possibly the Goyishe chef smuggles in items every now and then etc. I would gladly join Rabbis Belsky & Luban for a “photo-op” there while we eat samplings from the chefs dishes at that restaurant. I find it hard to believe they would eat from that establishments food. Having said that, is getting back to my point of reassuring the Kosher consumer somehow that there is really nothing to fear!
P.S. In that particular case (NYC restaurant), I am aware of the Mashgiachs background. One, “Bashmutzing” him afterwards doesn’t bode well as to why he was hired in the first place.
Two, there are other “Masgichim” currently in the business that look as Frum as the next fellow but only recently cut-off his PONYTAIL. Bottom line is: We rely on both the Hechsher AND the Mashgiach. One without the other is worthless!
Unfortunately, the Halachic concept of “Ed echad ne’eman b’issurim” no longer seems to be worth anything – not in a business environment anyways!
Gut Shabbos to all, and don’t forget to question whose Shechita the Kiddush you’re eating at is!
shim, the ou clearly said that the claims were false.
I have been an OU Mashgiach.
They ARE a reliable hechsher. They are not the most machmir, but they do follow their own rules. However, once in a while you get a bag egg, meaning a bad Mashgiach. NO certification is any better than their Mashgiach.
As far as double hashgachas…
Yes, many depend on the OU and just rubber stamp it.
However, there are two hashgachos that really DO improve on the OU standards, and those two are the Nirbartur Rov and his brother the Vollove Rov. (Ahron and Nuchom Efraim Teitlebaum ) They are exceptional in that they are VERY knowledgeable, and VERY thorough.
also, they back the mashgiach up, and make the mashgiach feel confident and not in fear of the business management/owner.
For all those out there who dont know what we are talking about when a chasidishe hashgocha accepts the ou, basically, when a company wants to be certified, they have to give the certifiying rabbi a list of ingredients for all the products that are certified. Those items need to be kosher, and being that raw ingredients, (salt, sugar, etc..) are bought in bulk, and MOST DO NOT CONTAIN heimishe hechsheirim, even if one is super careful to only buy foods with a dual hechsher, the ingredients in the food were originally MOST PROBABLY under the ou, ok or chof k hechsher.
o,
you cannot prove something if there was nothing that went wrong. how can they prove this to you in this case? they cannot open their vaults up whenver any donkey out there makes a claim.
as i said when this came out the other day, it cannot be true and BH it isnt.
notice that it doesnt say anywhere in the responce that its not true… it just says that consumers should look into issues that they hear (which i understand is exactly what was happening before they issued their response
To Anonymous 8:08
Your point about “joint certifications” is a very valid point in favor of the OU. Many hashgachos who certify products, actually rely on the OU, without actually having someone in person or with full knowledge at the plant!
To Anonymous 7:47
Your points in favor of the OU’s integrity are certainly well-taken. Why else would virtually all of the frum world accept their hashgachos, especially those that have a joint certification?
O.gevald, The questions raised were raised by an author with an agenda. And his sources as employees who are probably not Jewish with any knowledge of halacha. On the other side we have the largest Kashrus agency in the world, respected by most of the Orthodox community. Even those that do not use it do not accuse it of any wrongdoing. They simply want to use a different standard (Pas Yisroel etc..), or not rely on specific kulos..
You are not forced to accept their word of honor. You can choose not to eat any food certified by the OU. Halacha has guidelines about believing people. If you have a chumrah in this area, where you choose not to rely on people when Halacha says that you can, well so be it. You can choose to believe non Jewish employees with a very limited knowledge of Kashrus law (for example – the employee may have believed that the Rabbi seeing the process makes the food kosher – the famous “the rabbi blesses the food” mistake. So if he leaves the room the food is not kosher. Does he know the halacha of meeut and roiv, of davar shebminyan, miyut shenimtza, etc.. )
The questions in Monsey were raised by knowledgeable people. If you dont trust the OU in this case, why would you ever eat any of their food? Now if the same article mentioned the name of your favorite Kashrus agency would you have said the same thing, or do you have a bias against the OU?
Thank you, O.U. for your words of confidence. We are FORCED to accept your word of honor. That doesn’t do much to assure us consumers of your being guilt-free.
We would trust you no less if you would be able to “put your money where your mouth is” and be able to show and prove that there was absolutely no “monkey business” there however long ago.
Unfortunately, there is probably not much evidence left to show the world.
To “shush-up” those who raise alarms over (possible) kashrus violations by shouting “Lashon Hara” etc., is to quelch the only possibility of ever bringing any problems to light.
Imagine for a moment if Moshe Finkel (Monsey) would have been able to cry foul over the accusations against him and would have used his sterling reputation of being a Baal Koreh, Maagid Shiur, Baal Tokeah and of course Baal Tzedokah they claim he was, WE WOULD STILL BE EATING HIS TARFUS, rachmona litzlan!!!
I shudder at the thought!
Hechsherim need to do a better P.R. job of acknowledging “questions” raised about its standards.