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New York - OpEd: What I Did With My Shidduch List

Published on: December 23, 2013 02:00 PM
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 Goldy Krantz with her husband Leibe GruberNew York - Many know me as Goldy Krantz, the funny satirical writer of dates gone bad/awry. That’s true. But I was still Goldy Krantz, the 33-year-old woman who had been in the shidduch parashah for more than a decade. I went out with countless young and older men who I hoped would become “Mr. Krantz.” But that was never the case.

So I turned my true dating experiences into a book, which I hoped would get everyone in the shidduch parashah to laugh instead of moping about the situation they were in. Thankfully, many did laugh after purchasing my book, Best of My Worst (which is no longer for sale). Many e-mailed me and came out to speaking engagements where I was the guest speaker. I can fill another five books with everyone’s experiences!

Baruch Hashem, I became a kallah and have wed, but just because I am newly married doesn’t mean I’ve forgotten what I and thousands of others went through, or are currently going through. I still have very close friends and cousins in the shidduch parashah. One of the important tafkids I have now is trying to match them up with appropriate shidduchim—not just pairing up a male and a female, because I remember how that feels.

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What I offer now is not a good laugh or another dating “horror” story, but some advice. Take it or don’t take it, the choice is yours. But I would be remiss if I don’t pass it on because, as family and people in shul have pointed out to me, “You gave me strength before and you give me hope now.” I don’t think what I have to say is brilliant—to me, it was common sechel (sense)—but I have a yearning and maybe even an obligation to the rest of the Yidden in the shidduch parashah to share with you what happened to me in order for me to stand under the chupah with my chassan, Yeshaya Yehuda.

Very simply put: I threw away my list of prerequisites. I was looking for a working professional, someone with a wonderful sense of humor and an outgoing personality, someone a bit older than I was, someone who had a chavrusa a few times a night . . . I dated fellows who were missing one or two of the prerequisites, but I basically stuck to my list. If I had never compromised, I would still be dating.

I met my husband through work, and we became very casual friends. Yes, it is true—we did attend the same Shabbaton together, but it took my husband a year and a half to ask me out after that Shabbaton. The first date wasn’t a great one and I decided that we should “stay friends.” After that date, my sister became sick and recovered, but I was out of the shidduch parashah for almost a year while helping my family. When I began dating again, there my friend Yeshaya Yehuda was. We started dating very slowly; a dinner here, a movie there . . . And before I knew it, I felt very comfortable with him, and my list went out the window.

My husband works hard at his job, but is not the doctor or lawyer type that I’d always dated. He is a bit on the quiet side, not as outgoing as my list demanded. He smokes. I never wanted a smoker! But I don’t really mind it now. He doesn’t have a regular chavrusa, but learns when he is able to. To top it off, while my husband no longer wears the chassidish l’vush, he is from a chassidish family, with many siblings, and his brothers and father wear bekishes and shtreimels. Goldy Krantz is part of a chassidish family! My friends and family couldn’t get over how well the shtreimels, black hats, and kippah serugas blended at my chassunah.

Had I not known my husband from work, I never ever would have dated him. A smoker without a regular chavrusa, who is two years younger than me, from a chassidish family! Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I am two years older than my husband. But I got to know my husband, and I genuinely like the person he is. He cares for me and puts me first and I can tell from all of his actions that he is a good person. Isn’t that what counts in the long run—that the person that you marry is a good person and will put family first?

Forget about what color the Shabbos tablecloth is, or which seminary the girl graduated from (c’mon, she is 26 and went to seminary seven years ago!) Forget the fact that the girl is a bit older—does that really matter when the baby cries at 2:00 a.m.? “Honey you are older, go get the baby.” Let these sh’tusim (nonsensical things) go! Concentrate on one question: “How badly do I want to get married?” You may just open your eyes and mind to many possibilities that you passed by in the past.

Do I guarantee my advice? Will I give money back if it doesn’t work? No! But as the old adage goes, “Nothing ventured, nothing gained.” If you date the younger smoker from the chassidish family and don’t end up marrying him or her, then at least you can say that you tried it.

I gave my husband a chance and look where it got me—it got me married. Throw out your lists! You are not dating lists! You are dating people with feelings, experiences, opinions, and so on. If you want to marry a specific type, fine, but no one is going to fit your cookie-cutter mold. I just hope time doesn’t pass by until you learn this lesson the hard way—like I almost did. v

Goldy Krantz Gruber is a licensed MSW. She is the author of The Best of My Worst and has had several articles published on the topic of shidduch dating.

The Article was first published by The Five Towns Jewish Times, republished with permission.



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1

 Dec 23, 2013 at 02:24 PM The_Truth Says:

Omein!
I wish 100's of people I know "in the parsha" would read & listen to this.
#1 you want to marry a mentch with good middos - all the rest is just fluff.

2

 Dec 23, 2013 at 02:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Goldy, this is the best article on shidduchim I have read in years. It should be required reading in all yeshivos and seminaries as well as in the modern orthodox world. for a people that prides itself on substance, the lists and criteria people use are harmfula nd even achillul hashem.

Many more shidduchim willl be made if Goldy's advice is taken to heart. Hatzlacha!

4

 Dec 23, 2013 at 02:34 PM MRH Says:

Kol HaKabod.
Hazal tell us "Kashe zivugo shel Adam keKiryat Yam Suf. How is a joining of a couple like the separation of Yam Suf? When we tear up our "Shiduch List." When we separate ourselves from our preconceptions and prejudices, only then can we find our correct Zivug. (Source R' YB). It works!

5

 Dec 23, 2013 at 02:37 PM Anonymous Says:

He smokes. I never wanted a smoker! But I don’t really mind it now.

I'm glad you are married, however, there is defintely something wrong with Yidden smoking in our current Parsha after we all know it causes lung cancer.

He really needs to quit for your and your children's sake.

6

 Dec 23, 2013 at 02:54 PM Ayin_Tachas_Ayin Says:

Every pot has its cover - יעדער טעפל האט זיין דעקל

7

 Dec 23, 2013 at 02:54 PM victorg Says:

Smoking is a deal breaker for anyone in my dominion. You smoke, move over and make room for the next guy, period!

8

 Dec 23, 2013 at 02:57 PM non smoker Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

He smokes. I never wanted a smoker! But I don’t really mind it now.

I'm glad you are married, however, there is defintely something wrong with Yidden smoking in our current Parsha after we all know it causes lung cancer.

He really needs to quit for your and your children's sake.

You should calm down a bit. No I dont smoke, but the fact is most bochurim smoke and if u want to get married just know the fact that he will smoke. Because even if he says he never smokes it is most likely not true. Thats just what 85% of bochurim do

9

 Dec 23, 2013 at 03:00 PM bubii Says:

Hahahahaha thats a good one:)

10

 Dec 23, 2013 at 03:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Love the article except for the smoking part... That's a deadly habit and I want my kids to have the best odds at having their Tatte be alive at their chasunah and to see the future grandkids. With the exception of the smoking issue, I used many of the same ideas when I dated my husband several years ago...

11

 Dec 23, 2013 at 03:06 PM enlightened-yid Says:

I have been saying this for years to my friends who have adopted insane standards spoon fed to them by their rabbis and families. They still can't get married as no one's resume meets their list of superficial and unrealistic prerequisites. Shidduch crisis exists because of stupid standards and demands both from guys and girls. Glad this woman grew up eventually and realized what's important in finding a match.

12

 Dec 23, 2013 at 03:18 PM Mishelanu Says:

I think that the younger the people are in the shiduchim parsha,parents or the girl/guy will look for Mr or Mrs. perfect.
Age does matter in this case...

13

 Dec 23, 2013 at 03:20 PM grandpajoe Says:

A beautiful and real message - let' s stop this shidduch maddnes and let the boys meet the girls and just be themselved not what tehir parents want,

14

 Dec 23, 2013 at 03:20 PM sane Says:

The problem is that the typical frum boy and girl will not be able to meet in a casual or work environment since during a boy's Yeshiva life which can last to the mid to late 20s there is basically segregation of the sexes. Until then, there will be this unfortunately humbling, somewhat demeaning, mentally draining, blind date/resume/hit or miss scheme.

16

 Dec 23, 2013 at 03:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
non smoker Says:

You should calm down a bit. No I dont smoke, but the fact is most bochurim smoke and if u want to get married just know the fact that he will smoke. Because even if he says he never smokes it is most likely not true. Thats just what 85% of bochurim do

Don't be calm about this. It's an ugly, smelly, dirty, nasty habit that will KILL him and possibly his family (second hand smoke), or at least harm his family- asthma and other breathing disorders can be caused or impacted by smoking. This is more important than so many other things people "demand" in a potential spouse and the more women stand up for their nonsmoking beliefs, the more boys that will quit.

17

 Dec 23, 2013 at 03:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Love the article except for the smoking part... That's a deadly habit and I want my kids to have the best odds at having their Tatte be alive at their chasunah and to see the future grandkids. With the exception of the smoking issue, I used many of the same ideas when I dated my husband several years ago...

did you cut out the fatty food on your end and all the rest of the unhealthy food ????? oh forgot its easier to tell the guy or other person what to do than take care of your health first ! take care of your health first (go to gym eat healthy don't drive without seatbelts etc ) and than you can think whats good for your kids

18

 Dec 23, 2013 at 03:42 PM DougFische Says:

Reply to #14  
sane Says:

The problem is that the typical frum boy and girl will not be able to meet in a casual or work environment since during a boy's Yeshiva life which can last to the mid to late 20s there is basically segregation of the sexes. Until then, there will be this unfortunately humbling, somewhat demeaning, mentally draining, blind date/resume/hit or miss scheme.

You are so right. How many of our ancestors met at weddings, school, work, and social activities. Now we are being told that all this is and has always been assur. This is just the grandiose Rebbeim trying to control us. The truth is that among most people it was NEVER like this.

Let's forget the chumras for a while. Let people meet each other in a natural way at weddings, shul, etc. The sidduch crisis will quickly disappear.

19

 Dec 23, 2013 at 03:54 PM age-gap Says:

The whole crisis is because girls start dating at 19 & boys start dating at 23.As long as people support this system there will be 10% of bais Yakov girls staying single. Would someone support a Yeshiva that u know 10% will be drug dealers or 10% will be separate from a wife and make her into an Aguna? Why r we supporting a system that we know that 10% of BY students will never get married. To those that the RY say that they r not mature till 23 let them open a kindergarten. If chasidim without English or high school can get married @ 18-19, yeshiva boys surly can. This system must change. Start redding shidduchim to the 21 yr. old boys who care about the crisis, and let the 23 yr. old boys feel the pain they wanted to cause to their first cousin student of Bais Yakov.

20

 Dec 23, 2013 at 04:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
The_Truth Says:

Omein!
I wish 100's of people I know "in the parsha" would read & listen to this.
#1 you want to marry a mentch with good middos - all the rest is just fluff.

Amen!!!

21

 Dec 23, 2013 at 04:18 PM TheMuse Says:

Is she really saying that her brilliant discovery after 10+ years of dating was to drop prerequisites? This is probably the #1 cliche singles hear from the day they start dating. It's a classic article of "disguised advice" where the author is self conscious about her own choices in life and uses the written word to garner support/ justify for her own actions. Everything in this article was "I, me, I, me, I, me." Please stop parading your own marriage like it's the ideal situation for everyone else in the world. According to her very own recount, she never dropped her prerequisites -- she only fell into this situation by not dating him in the conventional way. Otherwise, she would've dropped him for not fulfilling things on her list. She liked this person before dropping her prerequisites -- she did not practice what she is preaching to others. Offering advice is fine, just do it in a more modest and honest fashion.

22

 Dec 23, 2013 at 04:23 PM Anonymous Says:

you are worse than hitler !

WOW, you have some anger issues as well as addiction ones!

23

 Dec 23, 2013 at 04:44 PM age-gap Says:

Chasidish girls that want to marry their chasiduth will all get married since the yearly statistic is 5% more boys than girls r born yearly. When chasdish boys & girls both start shiduchim at 18 & both insist on their same chasiduth 5% boys would stay single. Their only choice is to become modern. Litvish Yeshiva boys start @ 23 ,& BY girls start at 19 they have the age gap problem and 10% of the girls r staying single. Their only choice is to adjust to chasidish. Mazel Tov to Lieby & Goldy who both made these adjustments. May many others be realistic & learn from them.

24

 Dec 23, 2013 at 04:48 PM Moish Says:

Reply to #8  
non smoker Says:

You should calm down a bit. No I dont smoke, but the fact is most bochurim smoke and if u want to get married just know the fact that he will smoke. Because even if he says he never smokes it is most likely not true. Thats just what 85% of bochurim do

Please get your facts straight.
Most bochurim do not smoke.
85% is surely inaccurate!
Over 90% of good bochurim do not smoke because they fear the health risks and the chiyuv of V'nishmartem Me'oid Linafshoseichem. They can't afford the lost productivity and time, nor can many afford the cost either.
Some think it's cool and lack the self control to restrain themselves from making the wrong decision and get addicted. Those same people will usually be the same ones incapable of doing what's right in life, because they're always worried about peer pressure.

25

 Dec 23, 2013 at 04:57 PM ayinglefunadorf Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Love the article except for the smoking part... That's a deadly habit and I want my kids to have the best odds at having their Tatte be alive at their chasunah and to see the future grandkids. With the exception of the smoking issue, I used many of the same ideas when I dated my husband several years ago...

"Love the article except the smoking" This is by far the best article written on the parshe. The whole point is that we are all humans some smoking some not, some chassidish some litvish, some drink sugary drinks some only diet coke. I personally smoked 4 packs a day untill my wife got pregnant with our first child. That was 37 years 9 children Ba"h and 25 grand children ba"h ago.

26

 Dec 23, 2013 at 05:00 PM CommonSense Says:

Good Morning

This is how the rest of the world does it.

27

 Dec 23, 2013 at 05:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
victorg Says:

Smoking is a deal breaker for anyone in my dominion. You smoke, move over and make room for the next guy, period!

"You smoke, move over.." How about Coke and Pepsi Mr. Bloomberg? Sugar kills more people than smoking. Your attitude is exactly the problem. You smoke move over, You have the wrong hat, move over. You this You that and YOU STAYS SINGLE>

28

 Dec 23, 2013 at 05:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
victorg Says:

Smoking is a deal breaker for anyone in my dominion. You smoke, move over and make room for the next guy, period!

Interesting how many here complain on smoking boys. The cakes and nash etc baked and bought by Ladies,Girls and served in all Simchas are just as Damaging than smoking. Can you think of a boy who will say i dont want this girl because she bakes? The whole point of this article is that STOP excpecting others to be what YOU decided is the norm.Cigarets,Cakes,Sugary drinks are all bad for you but within the norm. This is the key not only to find your besherte but to have a good Marriage.

29

 Dec 23, 2013 at 05:28 PM BuckyinWisconsin Says:

What a lovely article, and we are all happy you were able to get married. I am sure your husband loves to read how he is not really what you wanted, and that you settled for second best (if that). Your article SCREAMS of your own personal gaayvah, and I really think you would be better off keeping these thoughts to yourself. Your husband is probably too polite and nice to say so, but believe me, some things are best left unsaid, and certainly best left UNPUBLISHED! Think before you write, Goldy.

30

 Dec 23, 2013 at 05:33 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #19  
age-gap Says:

The whole crisis is because girls start dating at 19 & boys start dating at 23.As long as people support this system there will be 10% of bais Yakov girls staying single. Would someone support a Yeshiva that u know 10% will be drug dealers or 10% will be separate from a wife and make her into an Aguna? Why r we supporting a system that we know that 10% of BY students will never get married. To those that the RY say that they r not mature till 23 let them open a kindergarten. If chasidim without English or high school can get married @ 18-19, yeshiva boys surly can. This system must change. Start redding shidduchim to the 21 yr. old boys who care about the crisis, and let the 23 yr. old boys feel the pain they wanted to cause to their first cousin student of Bais Yakov.

I am so tired of hearing this cold calculated argument. There is a shidduch crises for many reasons and the age gap isn't one of them. Personally, I believe the culture of sitting and learning is the biggest reason for the shidduch crisis. How about emptying out the study halls and let's see how quickly this crises disappears!

With that said, I believe #18 DougeFische is completely correct. Our ancestors were permitted to meet at weddings and other places which made for more matches. On the other hand, they demanded dowries which also contributed to older single girls. However, our ancestors thought nothing of marrying a man who was widowed or divorced with large age gaps between them. Clearly, there are many ways to solve this problem. Mazel Tov to the Grubers who found but one way!

31

 Dec 23, 2013 at 06:18 PM Anonymous Says:

I enjoy seeing the groisse chachomim blaming the shidduch crisis on shadchanim or people sitting and learning. The crisis would go away if people were able to meet at chasunas, in clubs and so forth.

If that were the case, why is the crisis so much worse in the modern orthodox circles and by the west side circles?

The facts prove you wrong. But most of you never let facts get in the way of your arguments, nor do you let plain seichel get in the way either.

32

 Dec 23, 2013 at 06:21 PM Judith Says:

I'm glad she's happy, but I wouldn't recommend marrying a smoker. It's a terrible and debilitating habit that takes years off ones health and life.

33

 Dec 23, 2013 at 06:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Mazel Tov Mrs Gruber!
Wishing you and your husband a long happy life together!
Great article!
There are so many older girls and guys out there. Yes, I said guys- you're marrying a guy, and he's not the only single guy over 25 out there. The girls I've come across and have tried to help out with shidduch suggestions all moan and weep about how unfair it is that there's such a terrible shidduch crisis affecting girls only. Not true. There are plenty of guys out there. Guys who those same girls refuse to go out with. Hope they all find their way to read your article. Maybe then it"ll be worth my time to try getting them a date.

34

 Dec 23, 2013 at 06:38 PM TheMuse Says:

Reply to #29  
BuckyinWisconsin Says:

What a lovely article, and we are all happy you were able to get married. I am sure your husband loves to read how he is not really what you wanted, and that you settled for second best (if that). Your article SCREAMS of your own personal gaayvah, and I really think you would be better off keeping these thoughts to yourself. Your husband is probably too polite and nice to say so, but believe me, some things are best left unsaid, and certainly best left UNPUBLISHED! Think before you write, Goldy.

Amen -- in 15 years from now, she will be writing an article titled "How my tune changed since the beginning of my marriage", preaching about potential sensitivities that couples don't realize when they first get married. She is aligning her perspective in a way that satisfies her needs in hope that the public can provide her with acceptance and support she desperately craves. Common disease amongst even the most talented of writers.

35

 Dec 23, 2013 at 06:48 PM Rafuel Says:

Reply to #14  
sane Says:

The problem is that the typical frum boy and girl will not be able to meet in a casual or work environment since during a boy's Yeshiva life which can last to the mid to late 20s there is basically segregation of the sexes. Until then, there will be this unfortunately humbling, somewhat demeaning, mentally draining, blind date/resume/hit or miss scheme.

I might even think that your argument is not without a modicum of reason... if not for stubborn facts.

For if you think that we, with our, as you so elegantly put it, "segregation of the sexes," have a shidduch crisis, look at the modern (they think they are) orthodox, where sexes intermingle freely, often at the same beach, and compare ours to their marriage (or rather un-marriage) statistics.

If we have a problem, they have a disaster. Put in reverse notation, if they had our statistics, they would think that they are flourishing.

36

 Dec 23, 2013 at 06:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
MRH Says:

Kol HaKabod.
Hazal tell us "Kashe zivugo shel Adam keKiryat Yam Suf. How is a joining of a couple like the separation of Yam Suf? When we tear up our "Shiduch List." When we separate ourselves from our preconceptions and prejudices, only then can we find our correct Zivug. (Source R' YB). It works!

i heard a vort form the Satmer Rebbe Ztz"l. Someone complained Kashe zivugo shel Adam keKiryat Yam Suf. how tuff it is. So the Satmer rebbe said the problem is that everyone is looking for 'bizas yam suf'.

37

 Dec 23, 2013 at 07:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Smoking is a deal-breaker/non-starter and it is terrible that you chose to advise other women that this is just another item on a list.

For the chochom who compared smoking to eating cake, smoking is addictive and also harms others in the surrounding area, in addition to the foolish smoker. Eating cake is none of those.

I wish both of you the best of health but I'm surprised that at age 33 you don't already know better than to compromise on smoking and, at least, didn't advise people to not make the same mistake you did about smoking.

38

 Dec 23, 2013 at 07:19 PM age-gap Says:

Reply to # 30
With 5%population increase 1000 born this year 1050 next year ,1100,1150,1200.The calculation is 1000 23 yr. old boys have 1200 19 year old girls to choose from. but since 5% more boys r born yearly so the actual is 1000 boys can pick from 1150 girls and since some boys start at 21-22 the end result is 1000 boys choose from 1100 girls. Every 23 year old boy has 101 choices ,one he will marry and 100 stay single. This is the reason boys & their mothers behave like Acashvayriosh looking for the richest smartest prettiest and skinniest. All girls have to settle and not get their fair market value."The age gap is the only problem." .WAKE UP (in reference to our ancestors that married younger 2000 years ago they took 2 wives. Our ancestors 100 years ago in the areas that married younger also had the same crisis. .A girl without money could not get married 100 years ago.). The age gap must be stopped by keeping the boys in the US after they finish Yeshiva here. Going to Erets Yisroel from 21 to 23 became the tzora why 10% r staying single. Stop supporting the system and look down at those boys that only want to start shiduchim at 23.WAKE UP

39

 Dec 23, 2013 at 07:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
Judith Says:

I'm glad she's happy, but I wouldn't recommend marrying a smoker. It's a terrible and debilitating habit that takes years off ones health and life.

Not to mention those that the smoker lives with.

40

 Dec 23, 2013 at 07:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Interesting how many here complain on smoking boys. The cakes and nash etc baked and bought by Ladies,Girls and served in all Simchas are just as Damaging than smoking. Can you think of a boy who will say i dont want this girl because she bakes? The whole point of this article is that STOP excpecting others to be what YOU decided is the norm.Cigarets,Cakes,Sugary drinks are all bad for you but within the norm. This is the key not only to find your besherte but to have a good Marriage.

Hardly, to compare smoking to overeating leaves out one glaring point. Second hand smoke KILLS those around you, including loved ones. Overeating kills only the eater.

41

 Dec 23, 2013 at 07:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
Rafuel Says:

I might even think that your argument is not without a modicum of reason... if not for stubborn facts.

For if you think that we, with our, as you so elegantly put it, "segregation of the sexes," have a shidduch crisis, look at the modern (they think they are) orthodox, where sexes intermingle freely, often at the same beach, and compare ours to their marriage (or rather un-marriage) statistics.

If we have a problem, they have a disaster. Put in reverse notation, if they had our statistics, they would think that they are flourishing.

The venom emanating from your soul is sickening.

42

 Dec 23, 2013 at 07:37 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

i heard a vort form the Satmer Rebbe Ztz"l. Someone complained Kashe zivugo shel Adam keKiryat Yam Suf. how tuff it is. So the Satmer rebbe said the problem is that everyone is looking for 'bizas yam suf'.

Git gezugt!

43

 Dec 23, 2013 at 07:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

did you cut out the fatty food on your end and all the rest of the unhealthy food ????? oh forgot its easier to tell the guy or other person what to do than take care of your health first ! take care of your health first (go to gym eat healthy don't drive without seatbelts etc ) and than you can think whats good for your kids

Eating unhealthy only hurts that person, while secondhand smoke can kill. It can send an asthmatic to the hospital and it can cause all sorts of breathing and cardio problems!!
And yes, I eat healthily, exercise, don't smoke or drink (kiddish on shabbos excepting and wine has health benefits. But no hard liquor). I am not obese and still drink milk every day ( which many adults don't) and I eat real meals including breakfast!!
So I can comment!!

44

 Dec 23, 2013 at 08:06 PM ayinglefunadorf Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

Smoking is a deal-breaker/non-starter and it is terrible that you chose to advise other women that this is just another item on a list.

For the chochom who compared smoking to eating cake, smoking is addictive and also harms others in the surrounding area, in addition to the foolish smoker. Eating cake is none of those.

I wish both of you the best of health but I'm surprised that at age 33 you don't already know better than to compromise on smoking and, at least, didn't advise people to not make the same mistake you did about smoking.

"Smoking is addictive and harms others eating cake is not" Really?? Tell this to the 100 million people who tried every single diet. In fact there is much more people trying to loose weight unsuccessfully than quit smoking. And tell this to all the people who have Heart problems, diabetes, Cancer from not eating the right food. I have yet to meet a doctor who recommends eating cake. The same Govt study which links cancer to smoking links Sugar, white flour to diabetes etc.

45

 Dec 23, 2013 at 08:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
age-gap Says:

Reply to # 30
With 5%population increase 1000 born this year 1050 next year ,1100,1150,1200.The calculation is 1000 23 yr. old boys have 1200 19 year old girls to choose from. but since 5% more boys r born yearly so the actual is 1000 boys can pick from 1150 girls and since some boys start at 21-22 the end result is 1000 boys choose from 1100 girls. Every 23 year old boy has 101 choices ,one he will marry and 100 stay single. This is the reason boys & their mothers behave like Acashvayriosh looking for the richest smartest prettiest and skinniest. All girls have to settle and not get their fair market value."The age gap is the only problem." .WAKE UP (in reference to our ancestors that married younger 2000 years ago they took 2 wives. Our ancestors 100 years ago in the areas that married younger also had the same crisis. .A girl without money could not get married 100 years ago.). The age gap must be stopped by keeping the boys in the US after they finish Yeshiva here. Going to Erets Yisroel from 21 to 23 became the tzora why 10% r staying single. Stop supporting the system and look down at those boys that only want to start shiduchim at 23.WAKE UP

"Age gap is the only problem" Its a big problem but not the only one. This young lady prooved it.

46

 Dec 23, 2013 at 08:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
age-gap Says:

Reply to # 30
With 5%population increase 1000 born this year 1050 next year ,1100,1150,1200.The calculation is 1000 23 yr. old boys have 1200 19 year old girls to choose from. but since 5% more boys r born yearly so the actual is 1000 boys can pick from 1150 girls and since some boys start at 21-22 the end result is 1000 boys choose from 1100 girls. Every 23 year old boy has 101 choices ,one he will marry and 100 stay single. This is the reason boys & their mothers behave like Acashvayriosh looking for the richest smartest prettiest and skinniest. All girls have to settle and not get their fair market value."The age gap is the only problem." .WAKE UP (in reference to our ancestors that married younger 2000 years ago they took 2 wives. Our ancestors 100 years ago in the areas that married younger also had the same crisis. .A girl without money could not get married 100 years ago.). The age gap must be stopped by keeping the boys in the US after they finish Yeshiva here. Going to Erets Yisroel from 21 to 23 became the tzora why 10% r staying single. Stop supporting the system and look down at those boys that only want to start shiduchim at 23.WAKE UP

"Going to EY from 21-23 became the tzore" And the Semminarys who teaching the girls all this Stus are just as bad.

47

 Dec 23, 2013 at 08:05 PM savtat Says:

If you think about it, you will realize that the shidduch method of picking the best and the brightest and wealthiest for your child is setting up a very selfish system. So that even when they get married, they are less inclined to be loving and caring to each other. The devotion to a partner is not supported by such a selfish system.

48

 Dec 23, 2013 at 08:17 PM 5towns Says:

I am not sure if people are paying attention but there is also a divorce crisis. If you encourage young men to marry before they are ready it will just increase that. Maybe having the girls wait to date and save some money or earn a degree so they can support said learning boy would be a much better way to close the age gap

49

 Dec 23, 2013 at 08:24 PM Shira Leah Says:

This article is sweet and has a nice message, (not original either, mind you), but if you look around at the older singles, it's not necessarily the "list girls" hanging around. Those crazy mothers with the ridiculous expectations do not seem to have more unmarried daughters. When I look at all the single girls I know I see equal numbers of skinny girls and heavier girls, outgoing and introverted girls, chasidishe, litvishe, yeshivishe and modern orthodox girls and yes, super picky and extremely flexible and open-minded girls. There's no one group of girls that sticks out as having the biggest pool of available singles (although in reading the above comments it does seem that the chasidishe may be on to something, at least with their girls). I know this author wants to believe that she found her bashert because she dropped her list but in reality, she found her bashert because Hashem put him in her way in the right time and place." I'm not saying we shouldn't collectively readjust some of our expectations on the shidduch scene but I don't buy this "I got married b/c I, I, I was so amazing and open-minded" bit...

50

 Dec 23, 2013 at 09:39 PM Benjey Says:

Reply to #29  
BuckyinWisconsin Says:

What a lovely article, and we are all happy you were able to get married. I am sure your husband loves to read how he is not really what you wanted, and that you settled for second best (if that). Your article SCREAMS of your own personal gaayvah, and I really think you would be better off keeping these thoughts to yourself. Your husband is probably too polite and nice to say so, but believe me, some things are best left unsaid, and certainly best left UNPUBLISHED! Think before you write, Goldy.

Gut Gezugt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Could Not Have Said It Any Better

51

 Dec 23, 2013 at 09:49 PM Sol Says:

Thanks for sharing your insight regarding one of the most inportant topics of our times.

Mazel Tov Mrs Gruber! Your hub is an awesome guy with gr8 middos! Excellent choice, Shaya Leib is a real mench.. Your Chasana in Ateres Avrom was beautiful & Lebedig. Oif Simchas

52

 Dec 23, 2013 at 09:51 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #49  
Shira Leah Says:

This article is sweet and has a nice message, (not original either, mind you), but if you look around at the older singles, it's not necessarily the "list girls" hanging around. Those crazy mothers with the ridiculous expectations do not seem to have more unmarried daughters. When I look at all the single girls I know I see equal numbers of skinny girls and heavier girls, outgoing and introverted girls, chasidishe, litvishe, yeshivishe and modern orthodox girls and yes, super picky and extremely flexible and open-minded girls. There's no one group of girls that sticks out as having the biggest pool of available singles (although in reading the above comments it does seem that the chasidishe may be on to something, at least with their girls). I know this author wants to believe that she found her bashert because she dropped her list but in reality, she found her bashert because Hashem put him in her way in the right time and place." I'm not saying we shouldn't collectively readjust some of our expectations on the shidduch scene but I don't buy this "I got married b/c I, I, I was so amazing and open-minded" bit...

"I'm not saying we shouldn't collectively readjust some of our expectations on the shidduch scene but I don't buy this "I got married b/c I, I, I was so amazing and open-minded" bit..."

I don't know why you are not buying it. There is enough evidence to show that those who scratch their "list" and are open minded will marry while those who are stuck on their "list" don't.

53

 Dec 23, 2013 at 09:54 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #38  
age-gap Says:

Reply to # 30
With 5%population increase 1000 born this year 1050 next year ,1100,1150,1200.The calculation is 1000 23 yr. old boys have 1200 19 year old girls to choose from. but since 5% more boys r born yearly so the actual is 1000 boys can pick from 1150 girls and since some boys start at 21-22 the end result is 1000 boys choose from 1100 girls. Every 23 year old boy has 101 choices ,one he will marry and 100 stay single. This is the reason boys & their mothers behave like Acashvayriosh looking for the richest smartest prettiest and skinniest. All girls have to settle and not get their fair market value."The age gap is the only problem." .WAKE UP (in reference to our ancestors that married younger 2000 years ago they took 2 wives. Our ancestors 100 years ago in the areas that married younger also had the same crisis. .A girl without money could not get married 100 years ago.). The age gap must be stopped by keeping the boys in the US after they finish Yeshiva here. Going to Erets Yisroel from 21 to 23 became the tzora why 10% r staying single. Stop supporting the system and look down at those boys that only want to start shiduchim at 23.WAKE UP

I'll say it again, I am tired of this cold calculated argument! Clear the study halls altogether and let's watch this problem go away. At least, we would see couples marrying because they truly want to be together!

54

 Dec 23, 2013 at 10:08 PM yossie Says:

Reply to #38  
age-gap Says:

Reply to # 30
With 5%population increase 1000 born this year 1050 next year ,1100,1150,1200.The calculation is 1000 23 yr. old boys have 1200 19 year old girls to choose from. but since 5% more boys r born yearly so the actual is 1000 boys can pick from 1150 girls and since some boys start at 21-22 the end result is 1000 boys choose from 1100 girls. Every 23 year old boy has 101 choices ,one he will marry and 100 stay single. This is the reason boys & their mothers behave like Acashvayriosh looking for the richest smartest prettiest and skinniest. All girls have to settle and not get their fair market value."The age gap is the only problem." .WAKE UP (in reference to our ancestors that married younger 2000 years ago they took 2 wives. Our ancestors 100 years ago in the areas that married younger also had the same crisis. .A girl without money could not get married 100 years ago.). The age gap must be stopped by keeping the boys in the US after they finish Yeshiva here. Going to Erets Yisroel from 21 to 23 became the tzora why 10% r staying single. Stop supporting the system and look down at those boys that only want to start shiduchim at 23.WAKE UP

enough with this nonsense boys will not get married at 20 or 21 they are immature
the problem is not an age gap
there was the same age gap 30 years ago when I got married
the only difference was 30 years ago only 10% of my friends sat and learned
the rest went to work (terrible indeed) myself included so we didn't need to look for rich girls
today every boy needs to learn for ten years minimum (as per his ry istructions)
therefore the girls without money are not getting married because they cannot support his royal majesty
zero to do with all the fancy calculations about age gap
the calculations and the ads in the papers is to make the rabonim and so called askonim feel good that after naming it a crisis they cant do anything about it since the age gap is the problem
baloney!!!!!

55

 Dec 23, 2013 at 10:11 PM TheMuse Says:

Reply to #52  
Ina Says:

"I'm not saying we shouldn't collectively readjust some of our expectations on the shidduch scene but I don't buy this "I got married b/c I, I, I was so amazing and open-minded" bit..."

I don't know why you are not buying it. There is enough evidence to show that those who scratch their "list" and are open minded will marry while those who are stuck on their "list" don't.

Do you really come into contact with singles who say "I found someone I like but I have this list and he/she doesn't fulfill one of the criteria and I am not open-minded enough to look passed this one trivial item"? Every date and every situation is different -- compromises are always being made, but not all compromises are healthy. Most singles don't date with black and white written lists.

And for the record, those with the "money/yichus/staus/looks" on their lists, are usually the ones who get married the quickest -- their lists and families make all the decisions at their naive stage of life where thoughts of whether or not I know how to have a real working relationship with my spouse is a realization they have 5-10 years into their marriages. It's the ones with brains, open-minded ness, and high relationship IQs who have the tougher time.

56

 Dec 23, 2013 at 10:18 PM age-gap Says:

If 1000 esroigim are delivered to a town of 1000 people every esrog will have a balhbos and evry balhabos will have an esrog. If 1100 esroigim are delivered to a town with 1000 balai batim everyone will have what to pick from (with a magnifier) and at the end 100 esroigim will not have a bal habayis. The mothers and the 23 year old boys have 101 esroigim to pick from.This is nebach the case. As long as we support the system of sending boys to EY from 21 to 23,10% of Bais Yakov girls don't have whom to marry. Its about time that Ehrliche yiden should say I don't want to be guilty of causing 1 out of 10 Bais Yakov girls to stay single. If I think my son is mature enough to be 6000 miles away from home to be on his own, he is surely mature to start shiduchim.(And if he is not mature yet, then there r very very big risks that he can pick up there.) How many more girls have to cry in their pillows until an Ehriche Rosh Yeshiva will say I dont want my talmidim to delay starting shiduchim until 23 even if he will loose the tuition money he could make on them. A rosh Yeshivah that cant mature his students until 21 should open a kindergarten. STOP THE MAN MADE TRAGEDY

57

 Dec 23, 2013 at 10:35 PM sol Cohen Says:

you might be the maven on dating but not a maven on staying married. I think a good suggestion would be not to plaster you pictures all over the Internet.

ain habracha shoire ela bedavar hasomuy min haayin.

58

 Dec 23, 2013 at 10:38 PM age-gap Says:

Reply to #46  
Anonymous Says:

"Going to EY from 21-23 became the tzore" And the Semminarys who teaching the girls all this Stus are just as bad.

If they wouldn't go to seminary the crisis would be bigger . it would be an age gap of 23 to 18 instead of 23 to 19

59

 Dec 23, 2013 at 11:10 PM FinVeeNemtMenSeichel Says:

Reply to #35  
Rafuel Says:

I might even think that your argument is not without a modicum of reason... if not for stubborn facts.

For if you think that we, with our, as you so elegantly put it, "segregation of the sexes," have a shidduch crisis, look at the modern (they think they are) orthodox, where sexes intermingle freely, often at the same beach, and compare ours to their marriage (or rather un-marriage) statistics.

If we have a problem, they have a disaster. Put in reverse notation, if they had our statistics, they would think that they are flourishing.

A lot of people keep saying this. But is it true? Maybe its time to take our smug heads out of the sandbox and realize that, just by virtue of itself, the chassidisshe velt is no disneyland. Not in happy marriages, not in happy children. Divorce is low, yes, but due to community stigma, not to anything else. You think you are so high and mighty that you can disparage whole segments of yiddishe kinder ("modern (they think they are) orthodox") who you claim intermingle on the beach. You really would be smacked down a notch or two when you realize whats going on in your little utopia with the at-risk contingent. Oh, and by the way you might be frim but you're not very nice. Or smart. Zeit mir moichel.

60

 Dec 23, 2013 at 11:10 PM CommonSense Says:

Good Morning

This is how the rest of the world does it.

61

 Dec 23, 2013 at 11:27 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #55  
TheMuse Says:

Do you really come into contact with singles who say "I found someone I like but I have this list and he/she doesn't fulfill one of the criteria and I am not open-minded enough to look passed this one trivial item"? Every date and every situation is different -- compromises are always being made, but not all compromises are healthy. Most singles don't date with black and white written lists.

And for the record, those with the "money/yichus/staus/looks" on their lists, are usually the ones who get married the quickest -- their lists and families make all the decisions at their naive stage of life where thoughts of whether or not I know how to have a real working relationship with my spouse is a realization they have 5-10 years into their marriages. It's the ones with brains, open-minded ness, and high relationship IQs who have the tougher time.

“ Do you really come into contact with singles who say "I found someone I like but I have this list and he/she doesn't fulfill one of the criteria and I am not open-minded enough to look passed this one trivial item"?

Unfortunately, yes. Every single day. You can't even get them to go out in the first place if the list isn't in order.

62

 Dec 23, 2013 at 11:30 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #56  
age-gap Says:

If 1000 esroigim are delivered to a town of 1000 people every esrog will have a balhbos and evry balhabos will have an esrog. If 1100 esroigim are delivered to a town with 1000 balai batim everyone will have what to pick from (with a magnifier) and at the end 100 esroigim will not have a bal habayis. The mothers and the 23 year old boys have 101 esroigim to pick from.This is nebach the case. As long as we support the system of sending boys to EY from 21 to 23,10% of Bais Yakov girls don't have whom to marry. Its about time that Ehrliche yiden should say I don't want to be guilty of causing 1 out of 10 Bais Yakov girls to stay single. If I think my son is mature enough to be 6000 miles away from home to be on his own, he is surely mature to start shiduchim.(And if he is not mature yet, then there r very very big risks that he can pick up there.) How many more girls have to cry in their pillows until an Ehriche Rosh Yeshiva will say I dont want my talmidim to delay starting shiduchim until 23 even if he will loose the tuition money he could make on them. A rosh Yeshivah that cant mature his students until 21 should open a kindergarten. STOP THE MAN MADE TRAGEDY

Stop with your cold calculated argument. Shidduchim are not about numbers and age gap!!! Clear the study halls!

63

 Dec 24, 2013 at 02:27 AM AdinaBina Says:

To the commentor who says that Goldie's article should be shared in the "yeshivos, seminaries, and modern orthodox world" - well, MOST Modern Orthodox teenagers attend yeshiva and seminary (true, not all, but then neither does every teen from a yeshivish or chassidishe family)

To all the other commentors who say that smoking is just as bad for you as eating fatty foods, sugary foods, and soda - well, why do any of it?Just because unhealthy foods are bad doesn't make smoking ANY better. Yes, unhealthy food is pervasive and hard to persist, as someone in OA I would know, but a healthy lifestyle is attainable for just about everyone - even incrementally.

64

 Dec 24, 2013 at 08:20 AM ayinglefunadorf Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

Hardly, to compare smoking to overeating leaves out one glaring point. Second hand smoke KILLS those around you, including loved ones. Overeating kills only the eater.

"Second hand smoke KILLS those around you" If that is true none of us would be around since 25 years ago all offices, yeshivas, restaurants etc were smoking places.Since you are wrighting this narischkeit is the living proof that you are wrong. There is no doubt in my mind that your parents grandparents were exposed to second hand smoke.

65

 Dec 24, 2013 at 08:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #43  
Anonymous Says:

Eating unhealthy only hurts that person, while secondhand smoke can kill. It can send an asthmatic to the hospital and it can cause all sorts of breathing and cardio problems!!
And yes, I eat healthily, exercise, don't smoke or drink (kiddish on shabbos excepting and wine has health benefits. But no hard liquor). I am not obese and still drink milk every day ( which many adults don't) and I eat real meals including breakfast!!
So I can comment!!

Kol Hakovad to you if you do all the healthy stuff. I only wish we all should.

66

 Dec 24, 2013 at 08:34 AM victorg Says:

Reply to 7
You are entitled to your opinion.
And I am entitled to mine.

So don't even think about calling for my daughters!

67

 Dec 24, 2013 at 09:02 AM age-gap Says:

Reply to #62  
Ina Says:

Stop with your cold calculated argument. Shidduchim are not about numbers and age gap!!! Clear the study halls!

you keep thinking about individuals that can use some from the study halls. The sad truth is there are 3000 BY girls over 25 begging to get a date with one of the 300 boys over 25. The only way to save this is to get 1000 21 year old & 1000 22 year old boys in shiduchim so that the 23 year old plus will have to take the older girls. The boys that don't care about the situation they are putting the BY girls into, should be considered the alte knockers (without the N). Let them beg for the dates with the 23 + .Anyone continuing not to listen to shiduchim only until after they enjoyed themselves in EY until the age of 23,should have on his guilt that he caused 10% of the BY girls not to get married.When it will hit them home they will know who caused it. KEEP THE 21 YEAR OLD YESHIVA BOYS IN THE US YOU WILL SEE THAT THEY REALY "ARE" READY FOR SHIDDUCHIM.

68

 Dec 24, 2013 at 09:55 AM yossie Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

I enjoy seeing the groisse chachomim blaming the shidduch crisis on shadchanim or people sitting and learning. The crisis would go away if people were able to meet at chasunas, in clubs and so forth.

If that were the case, why is the crisis so much worse in the modern orthodox circles and by the west side circles?

The facts prove you wrong. But most of you never let facts get in the way of your arguments, nor do you let plain seichel get in the way either.

groise choochom!
the mo community has a crisis due to commitment issues not for any other reason
why settle for one when you are having fun with many!
don't mix up the issues
it has to do with the issue of support
take out that factor and all the girls without means can get married
all the boys are taught that just sit and learn have no clue as to what you will do with your life marry rich and all will be well
this mentality has caused the crisis nothing else

69

 Dec 24, 2013 at 10:30 AM Benny Says:

We started dating very slowly; a dinner here, a movie there . . .
my husband is from a chassidish family!

I love it

70

 Dec 24, 2013 at 10:35 AM Benny Says:

To all the men
Steipler writes: look for 2 things
a) she should be iras shomaim
b) she should want you to learn

Hatzlocha to all who need a shiduch!

71

 Dec 24, 2013 at 10:43 AM Ina Says:

Reply to #67  
age-gap Says:

you keep thinking about individuals that can use some from the study halls. The sad truth is there are 3000 BY girls over 25 begging to get a date with one of the 300 boys over 25. The only way to save this is to get 1000 21 year old & 1000 22 year old boys in shiduchim so that the 23 year old plus will have to take the older girls. The boys that don't care about the situation they are putting the BY girls into, should be considered the alte knockers (without the N). Let them beg for the dates with the 23 + .Anyone continuing not to listen to shiduchim only until after they enjoyed themselves in EY until the age of 23,should have on his guilt that he caused 10% of the BY girls not to get married.When it will hit them home they will know who caused it. KEEP THE 21 YEAR OLD YESHIVA BOYS IN THE US YOU WILL SEE THAT THEY REALY "ARE" READY FOR SHIDDUCHIM.

You go on and on about the age gap issue which is but a cold calculated argument. The shidduch "crisis" is man made. The kollel has a lot to do with it. The issue will not be solved with your solution so get off it!!

72

 Dec 24, 2013 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #68  
yossie Says:

groise choochom!
the mo community has a crisis due to commitment issues not for any other reason
why settle for one when you are having fun with many!
don't mix up the issues
it has to do with the issue of support
take out that factor and all the girls without means can get married
all the boys are taught that just sit and learn have no clue as to what you will do with your life marry rich and all will be well
this mentality has caused the crisis nothing else

Your bubbe maises are not supported by the facts either.

I see just as many girls from very well to do families having issues as from not well to do families.

And I see as many from kollel and less well to do families making shidduchim.

Your premise is not at all supported by the facts.

73

 Dec 24, 2013 at 12:14 PM RobertS Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

I enjoy seeing the groisse chachomim blaming the shidduch crisis on shadchanim or people sitting and learning. The crisis would go away if people were able to meet at chasunas, in clubs and so forth.

If that were the case, why is the crisis so much worse in the modern orthodox circles and by the west side circles?

The facts prove you wrong. But most of you never let facts get in the way of your arguments, nor do you let plain seichel get in the way either.

The problem is not men sitting and learning. The problem is the methods to support such efforts. When a man expects or seeks only a woman from a wealthy family in order to support his learning then there is a problem because relatively few families are wealthy enough to support a son-in-law learning full-time

74

 Dec 24, 2013 at 11:45 AM Anonymous Says:

ing or a girl on the heavierarticle well written mazal tov to you mrs gruber
from my understanding of the article goldie was trying to point out we all have a wishlist what we would want in our spouse but she points out that if we are realistic we would realize "altz by einim iz nisht du by keynim " no one has it all that being said that we need to settle each one of us has issues and tendencies we are able to over look and live with but then their are some that we wont or cant and stands as a red line we wont cross the issue wasnt yes to a smoker or no to a smoker in her particular case it was smoking she chose to look away from but in each of us its something so when 1/2 the comments here are about smokers yes or no i think they're missing the point goldie is trying to bring out that we must be more flexible and realistic in our expectations of what really is or isnt important to us and if the choice boils down to remaining single until ... or marrying and yes settling for somone smoking or a girl on the heaiver side etc shes trying to make all those still in her position not to wait until 30ish before coming around of course g-d is in charge but we must do all we can

75

 Dec 24, 2013 at 02:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

i heard a vort form the Satmer Rebbe Ztz"l. Someone complained Kashe zivugo shel Adam keKiryat Yam Suf. how tuff it is. So the Satmer rebbe said the problem is that everyone is looking for 'bizas yam suf'.

So well said!!! I was smiling from ear to ear when i read that!

76

 Dec 24, 2013 at 03:25 PM age-gap Says:

Chasidim want money just as much as Yeshivish.. If the chasidishe boy is a Talmid Chochem he wants it for learning and if he is a truck driver he wants money to buy a new truck. But by chasidim there is 1000 (1050 according to us censes) boys that have only 1000 girls to choose from. If his demands r too big he will stay single. So the chasidim don't have the chutspeh to demand money. By Yeshivish 1000 boys have 1100 girls to choose from (because of the age-gap) so he has much more to choose from.. That`s why they all want money (just like the truck driver) and by the basic economics of supply and demand he will get money (and a better deal then her.) STOP THE CRIS BY NOT SENDING 21 YEAR BOYS TO ERETS YISROEL.

77

 Dec 24, 2013 at 03:50 PM age-gap Says:

FACT 3000 Bais Yakov girls over 25 are still single
only 300 Yeshivish boys over 25 that are still single.
These 300 boys are demanding more than Acashvayrosh because he had the money but was (collecting resumes)looking for the pretiest and the skinniest. While these 300 boys want money and the above. They r asking for more than they r giving and probably will get it as mentioned several times before, BOYS MUST START YOUNGER

78

 Dec 24, 2013 at 04:08 PM Rafuel Says:

Reply to #41  
Anonymous Says:

The venom emanating from your soul is sickening.

Why? Because I said something you don't want to accept but can't possibly dispute?

79

 Dec 24, 2013 at 04:22 PM Rafuel Says:

Reply to #59  
FinVeeNemtMenSeichel Says:

A lot of people keep saying this. But is it true? Maybe its time to take our smug heads out of the sandbox and realize that, just by virtue of itself, the chassidisshe velt is no disneyland. Not in happy marriages, not in happy children. Divorce is low, yes, but due to community stigma, not to anything else. You think you are so high and mighty that you can disparage whole segments of yiddishe kinder ("modern (they think they are) orthodox") who you claim intermingle on the beach. You really would be smacked down a notch or two when you realize whats going on in your little utopia with the at-risk contingent. Oh, and by the way you might be frim but you're not very nice. Or smart. Zeit mir moichel.

Wrong id! I don't speak for chasidishe velt, not being chosid myself, although I do have a lot of respect for it.

80

 Dec 24, 2013 at 04:52 PM yossie Says:

Reply to #77  
age-gap Says:

FACT 3000 Bais Yakov girls over 25 are still single
only 300 Yeshivish boys over 25 that are still single.
These 300 boys are demanding more than Acashvayrosh because he had the money but was (collecting resumes)looking for the pretiest and the skinniest. While these 300 boys want money and the above. They r asking for more than they r giving and probably will get it as mentioned several times before, BOYS MUST START YOUNGER

just because you and some self declared askonim got it in to your head that the issue is age
my son needs to get married at 21?
my son is turning 21iyh in june and im sending him to ey after pesach iyh
hes not ready to go out
let him enjoy life the responsibilities of married life and all its headaches
will come in due time
when I went out boys started at 22-23
there was no crisis!
there wasn't the concept of every yutz learning for ten years
this nonsense has to stop

81

 Dec 24, 2013 at 09:46 PM age-gap Says:

Reply to #80  
yossie Says:

just because you and some self declared askonim got it in to your head that the issue is age
my son needs to get married at 21?
my son is turning 21iyh in june and im sending him to ey after pesach iyh
hes not ready to go out
let him enjoy life the responsibilities of married life and all its headaches
will come in due time
when I went out boys started at 22-23
there was no crisis!
there wasn't the concept of every yutz learning for ten years
this nonsense has to stop

1-)That the age gap is the problem was signed by 70 Rabonim
2-)Haolcha has already decided that he is ready to be in shiduchim at 20 .This decision was made before technology that puts the Yetzer Hora at the fingertips.
3-)Enjoy life is the way goyim (& the MO) do by using birth control(which may be less of a sin then not getting married).In halocha u cant delay getting married to have a good time.
4-)When u got married there was a shidduch crisis. If your wife is a Bais Yakov grad. I am sure 10% of her grade r not married . At that time no one knew of the age gap theory. Today we know we must stop it.
5-)Every yuts gets money because evry yuts has 101 choices as explained.
I understand that u don't want to be the first Nachshon to do this big Mitsvah .But if u do u will know that if someone close to u has an older daughter u can say Maasai Yodainu Lo Shofchu Hademo`os Hoailu. Also WARNING boys 6000 miles away some come back as ; alcoholics, drugs ,gambling, liedig gayers, farshmuts from the iphone ,and avairos they would never do close to their parents. keeping him here. u will see more Nachas from him close by. If u only could send him to EY after he is engaged or married.

82

 Dec 25, 2013 at 06:50 AM Ina Says:

Reply to #81  
age-gap Says:

1-)That the age gap is the problem was signed by 70 Rabonim
2-)Haolcha has already decided that he is ready to be in shiduchim at 20 .This decision was made before technology that puts the Yetzer Hora at the fingertips.
3-)Enjoy life is the way goyim (& the MO) do by using birth control(which may be less of a sin then not getting married).In halocha u cant delay getting married to have a good time.
4-)When u got married there was a shidduch crisis. If your wife is a Bais Yakov grad. I am sure 10% of her grade r not married . At that time no one knew of the age gap theory. Today we know we must stop it.
5-)Every yuts gets money because evry yuts has 101 choices as explained.
I understand that u don't want to be the first Nachshon to do this big Mitsvah .But if u do u will know that if someone close to u has an older daughter u can say Maasai Yodainu Lo Shofchu Hademo`os Hoailu. Also WARNING boys 6000 miles away some come back as ; alcoholics, drugs ,gambling, liedig gayers, farshmuts from the iphone ,and avairos they would never do close to their parents. keeping him here. u will see more Nachas from him close by. If u only could send him to EY after he is engaged or married.

Once again, there you go with your cold calculated argument! No, 10% of my class is not unmarried! There are many ways for people who wish to marry to actually get married. The Grubers have showed us but one way. Another way would be for the girls to hold off until their mid twenties. However, none of this has the possibility of being a viable solution to what is but a man made "crisis"! Why not do a study of how our ancestors married during the past 200 years? I have and I can tell you their shidduch scene was quite different. In fact, most of the women married in their middle twenties and the men in their late twenties once they were somewhat financially stable. Also, there were sometimes huge age gaps between couples who were quite happy despite it. The kollel lifestyle has brought untold social ills upon our generation. Your cold calculated solution will bring far more! You are good at making cold calculations however, you might be missing some basic common sense and I don't care how many "rabbonim" have signed onto this "proclamation". As for my sons, they will not marry one day before they are ready.

83

 Dec 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM Chanala Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Interesting how many here complain on smoking boys. The cakes and nash etc baked and bought by Ladies,Girls and served in all Simchas are just as Damaging than smoking. Can you think of a boy who will say i dont want this girl because she bakes? The whole point of this article is that STOP excpecting others to be what YOU decided is the norm.Cigarets,Cakes,Sugary drinks are all bad for you but within the norm. This is the key not only to find your besherte but to have a good Marriage.

Sorry- eating sugar kills you, but smoking kills other people. You can make a decision not to drink soda, but you can't always avoid the smoke clouds in your face.
Sincerely,
Relative of a sufferer of emphysema brought about by second hand smoking

84

 Dec 25, 2013 at 12:38 PM Chanala Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Interesting how many here complain on smoking boys. The cakes and nash etc baked and bought by Ladies,Girls and served in all Simchas are just as Damaging than smoking. Can you think of a boy who will say i dont want this girl because she bakes? The whole point of this article is that STOP excpecting others to be what YOU decided is the norm.Cigarets,Cakes,Sugary drinks are all bad for you but within the norm. This is the key not only to find your besherte but to have a good Marriage.

Dumb question- IF the problem is the age gap, then why do they guys have to go out earlier? Why can't the girls go out later? Our biological clocks are nowhere near sounding the alarm, if guys really want girls with good jobs to support them then this give more time to earn a degree and get that good job, and honestly, while it could just be conditioning, I don't think that enough guys are ready to go out much earlier than they do. And if guys get more mature as they get older, wouldn't it be the same with girls?
The reason why this wouldn't work is, quite frankly, the same reason why getting boys to go out earlier won't work either- you can't make people do this kind of thing en masse.

85

 Dec 25, 2013 at 10:21 PM yossie Says:

this age gap nonsense is the way the rabonim who caused the problem make themselves feel good that they came up with charts and calculations
this crisis is self caused
when I went out the question was "what does the boy do " (last I checked the kesuba says that the man has to support the wife)
today they ask" what does the girl do"
its a sick system this didn't exist en masse in Europe and shouldn't exist here either
boys that are getting married have zero responsibility have no clue as to how they will support a wife and children
but this genius says they should go out and get married at age 20-21
as if the divorce rate is not high enough

86

 Dec 26, 2013 at 04:33 PM Rafuel Says:

Reply to #84  
Chanala Says:

Dumb question- IF the problem is the age gap, then why do they guys have to go out earlier? Why can't the girls go out later? Our biological clocks are nowhere near sounding the alarm, if guys really want girls with good jobs to support them then this give more time to earn a degree and get that good job, and honestly, while it could just be conditioning, I don't think that enough guys are ready to go out much earlier than they do. And if guys get more mature as they get older, wouldn't it be the same with girls?
The reason why this wouldn't work is, quite frankly, the same reason why getting boys to go out earlier won't work either- you can't make people do this kind of thing en masse.

The answer to your question is nothing more than the realities of life:

1. If you want to have a large family (most of us do), the chances are that much better when a wife start having children at a younger age.

2. A wife that is younger than her husband has that much better chance to remain more attractive to him for longer. (Again, we are talking about chances here, not certainties.)

Those things are not right or wrong, fair or unfair, they are just the way they are and are difficult to overlook.

87

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