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New York - Halachic Analysis: Is Quinoa Considered Kitniyos in 2014?

Published on: April 6, 2014 11:59 AM
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FILE - Farmers separate grains during a Quinoa harvest on a field in Tarmaya, some 120 km south of La Paz April 29, 2013.FILE - Farmers separate grains during a Quinoa harvest on a field in Tarmaya, some 120 km south of La Paz April 29, 2013.

New York - Generally, this time of year is the busiest for Rabbonim the world over; fielding questions on every aspect of the myriad and complex halachos of Pesach observance. This year is no different. Yet, interestingly, the question that seems to be utmost on people’s minds is not about chametz or even cleaning properly. No, in 2014, the biggest issue still seems to be whether quinoa (pronounced Keen-Waah) is considered Kitniyos and whether Ashkenazim can eat it on Pesach. Perhaps, it has something to do with the fact that the U.N. (Oom Shmoom in the Israeli vernacular) declared 2013 as the ‘International Year of the Quinoa’. Whatever the reason, after receiving this question numerous times in one day, this author decided to address the issue.

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Quinoa Questions

While not (yet) too common here in Yerushalayim, quinoa has developed an international following. Packed with protein (essential amino acids) and fiber, as well as magnesium, phosphorus, calcium and iron (and naturally cholesterol free!), quinoa packs quite a dietary punch. Although billed as the ‘Mother of All Grains’ and ‘the Super Grain’, this native of the Andes Mountains (think Bolivia and Peru) is actually a grain that isn’t; it does not even contain gluten. It turns out that quinoa is really a member of the ‘goose-foot’ family (Chenopodium), related to beets and spinach. But while its health benefits sound terrific, it still may be problematic on Pesach.

Kitniyos Clash  

It is well known that the actual prohibition of Chametz on Pesach pertains exclusively to leavened products made from the five major grains: wheat, barley, oats, spelt or rye. Yet, already in place from the times of the Rishonim, there was an Ashkenazic prohibition against eating Kitniyos (legumes; literally ‘little things’) on Pesach, except in times of famine or grave need. Although several authorities opposed this prohibition, nonetheless it is binding on Ashkenazic Jewry in full force, even today. Although the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch refers to the Kitniyos prohibition as an ‘issur’, the Mishna Berura as a ‘chumra’, the Aruch Hashulchan as a ‘geder’, Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank zt”l as a ‘gezeira’, Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l as a ‘minhag’, and the Klausenberger Rebbe zt”l as a ‘takana’, nonetheless they all maintain that it is compulsory on all Ashkenazic Jewry. In fact, the Aruch Hashulchan writes that ‘once our forefathers have accepted this prohibition upon themselves, it is considered a ‘geder m’din Torah’ and one who is lenient is testifying about himself that he has no fear of Heaven”. He adds that one who breaks this prohibition deserves to be bitten by a snake.

Several reasons are given for the actual prohibition, including that Kitniyos often grow in close proximity to grain; are commonly stored together with grain and actual chametz might actually end up mixed inside the Kitniyos container; cooked dishes made from grain and Kitniyos look similar; and that Kitniyos can likewise be ground up into flour - a ‘bread’ can actually be made from them. Since there are many who will not be able to differentiate between them and their Biblically forbidden chametz counterparts, Kitniyos was likewise prohibited.

Potatoes, Peanuts, and Corn…Oh My!

So how does our quinoa measure up? Although it has been used in theAndesfor millennia, it has only recently, in the last score or so, gained popularity around the world.  Does quinoa fit the Kitniyos criteria or not?

Perhaps we can glean some insight to quinoa’s Kitniyos status from halachic precedents of other now-common food staples that were introduced long after the Kitniyos prohibition started, such as potatoes, peanuts and corn.

It would seemingly be quite difficult for anyone to mix up potatoes with chametz grain, so that rationale to regard potatoes as Kitniyos is out. But, potatoes can be and are made into potato flour and potato starch, and there are those who do bake potato ‘bread’! Yet, even so, we find that potatoes are not considered Kitniyos .

One of the main reasons for this is that at the time when the Ashkenazic Rishonim established the decree prohibiting Kitniyos, potatoes were completely unknown! It is possible that had they been readily available they might have been on the “forbidden list” as well! Yet, since they were never included, contemporary authorities have no right to add “new types” to the list. As Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt”l noted, Klal Yisrael never accepted the Kitniyos prohibition to include potatoes.

Similar logic was used by several poskim, including Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l, to permit peanuts for Pesach for those who did not have an opposing minhag. Yet, this was not as widely accepted since peanuts, a true legume, and as opposed to potatoes, can get mixed up with grain. In fact, the minhag in Yerushalayim (going back well over a century) is to consider both the peanut and its oil Kitniyos.

On the other hand, we find that another New Worldcrop, corn, was seemingly unanimously included as part of the Kitniyos prohibition. Aside for the fact that the words ‘corn’ and ‘grain’ both stem from the same root, ‘corn’ is actually only the name for the grain ‘maize ’ that is used in the United States, Canada, and Australia. In other parts of the English-speaking world and much of Europe, the term ‘corn’ is a generic term for cereal  crops, such as real chametz - wheat, barley , oats , or rye . Additionally, corn exhibits many characteristics of real deal Kitniyos: it grows near other grains, is made into flour (that can be easily confused with grain flour), and corn bread is made from it. Therefore, since corn fits much of the criteria of Kitniyos, it is included in the prohibition.

Quinoa Controversy

So, which category should quinoa be a part of? Like the potato and be excluded from the prohibition? Or like corn and be considered Kitniyos? Actually, contemporary authorities and Kashrus agencies have been debating just this very question. It turns out that quinoa is halachically similar to the peanut, meaning that its status is debated.

Several Kashrus agencies, including the Star-K, who follow the psak of Rav Moshe Heinemann shlit”a, and the cRc (Chicago), following the psak of Rav Gedalia Schwartz shlit”a, as well as the Kof-K, maintain that quinoa is essentially Kosher for Pesach. Since it is not even remotely related to the five grains, and was not around at the time of the Kitniyos prohibition, it is not considered Kitniyos. Additionally, the Star-K tested quinoa to see if it would rise, yet instead, it decayed, a sure sign that it is not a true grain. The only issue, according to them, is the fact that quinoa is processed in facilities that other grains are processed in. Therefore, they maintain, that if quinoa is processed in facilities under special reliable Pesach supervision, there is no Pesach problem. In fact, this year as well, the Star-K gives special kosher for Passover hashgacha on certain types of quinoa.

However, Rav Yisroel Belsky shlit”a, Rosh Yeshiva of Torah V’Daas and Posek for the OU disagreed. He argued that since quinoa fits every criterion for Kitniyos, it should be included in its prohibition. Quinoa is the staple grain in its country of origin. It is grown in proximity of and can be mixed up with the five grains. It is collected and processed the same (and in the same facilities) as the five grains, and is cooked into porridge and breads the same as the five grains. He maintained that it should be compared to corn, which was, for similar reasons, included in the Kitniyos prohibition. Although quinoa is a New World food item and was not included in the original prohibition, nevertheless, he explained that that line of reasoning applies exclusively to items that are not clearly Kitniyos, to foods that may share only several characteristics with Kitniyos. However, since quinoa and corn would certainly have been included in the gezeira had they been discovered, as they share every criterion of Kitniyos, they are consequently by definition considered Kitniyos.

However, the OU’s other main posek, Rav Herschel Schachter shlit”a, Rosh Yeshivas Rabbeinu Yitzchak Elchanan, permits quinoa, concluding that if it processed in a special facility with no other grains, it should be essentially permitted for Passover use. Due to the difference of opinions of their top Poskim, in the past, the OU did not certify quinoa as Kosher for Pesach. However, this year, 2014, the OU made a decision allowing quinoa for Pesach, provided that it is processed with special Passover supervision. In fact, the OU is recommended quinoa for Pesach 2014 and actually certifying special Pesach processing runs.

[This does not mean that Rav Belsky has in fact changed his position. In fact, this author has heard from several of his talmidim, as well as my father, renowned kashrus expert Rabbi Manish Spitz, who spoke with Rav Belsky directly, that he still personally does not recommend quinoa for Pesach use.]

However, not every Kashrus agency in North Americaagrees. The OK does not certify quinoa for Pesach as they consider it Kitniyos, as does the COR of Toronto. This also is the Badatz Eida Chareidis of Yerushalayim’s approach, as in their most recent Madrich HaKashrus, they maintain that food items that are planted in the ground as seeds (zironim), harvested as seeds (garinim) and are edible, are considered Kitniyos. As mentioned previously, the Yerushalmi Mesorah for this goes back centuries. This certainly would include quinoa as Kitniyos.

Other Poskim who ruled similarly include Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv zt”l, who paskened that it should be considered Kitniyos after being shown quinoa and hearing from representatives of various kashrus agencies, and Rav Asher Weiss shlit”a (the renowned Minchas Asher), who recently addressed this topic in his weekly halacha shiur, and concluding that it is indeed Kitniyos. This was also the opinion of Rav Yehoshua Yeshaya Neuwirth zt”l, venerated author of Shemiras Shabbos Kehilchasa. The current Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of Israel, Rav Dovid Lau, as well, wrote that quinoa is only permitted on Pesach for Ochlei Kitniyos. In light of all this, it seems much less likely to see quinoa gracing a Pesach table in Eretz Yisrael.

Rav Avrohom Blumenkrantz zt”l, in his annual Kovetz Hilchos Pesach, took a middle road approach, acknowledging both sides to this quinoa quarrel. He did not give carte blanche for everyone to use it for Pesach, but concluded that anyone who suffers from gluten or any Pesach-related allergies or conditions (ex. celiac) may comfortably use quinoa on Pesach without hesitation. Rav Mordechai Tendler shlit”a, grandson of Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l and author of Mesores Moshe, told this author that this is the approach that he felt his venerated grandfather would have taken (and not as many mistakenly opine that Rav Moshe zt”l would have permitted it outright) had quinoa been introduced while he was still alive.

In this author’s estimation, the point Rav Tendler was making is that there seems to be a common misconception that Rav Moshe Feinstein zt"l, in his oft-cited teshuva about peanuts’ Kitniyos status (Shu”t Igros Moshe O.C. vol. 3, 63), gave a blanket hetter for any “New World’ food item. In this author’s opinion, this is not entirely correct, as was mentioned previously that everyone considers corn as Kitniyos, even though it was introduced long after the Kitniyos restriction. Rav Moshe used that as a sevara (and he was not the first nor the only posek to do so) to explain why potatoes were not included in the restriction, as well as peanuts for those who did not have an existing minhag. He did not give a carte blanche hetter for every ‘new food’. Meaning, Rav Moshe held that minhag and similarity to all Kitniyos factors also play a role. As such, Rav Tendler was relating, it would seem tenuous at best to apply that teshuva as the exclusive basis to a hetter permitting quinoa for Pesach. In fact, this author has since heard that Rav Dovid Feinstein shlit"a, Rav Moshe’s son, as well as Rav Moshe Dovid Tendler, Rav Moshe’s son-in-law, both do not recommend Ashkezaim eating quinoa on Pesach. Other well-known Rabbanim who have gone on record as considering quinoa kitniyos include Rav Osher Westheim of Manchester, Rav Yaakov Ariel of Ramat Gan, Rav Yaakov Reismann of Far Rockaway, and Rav Gershon Bess of Los Angeles.

Quinoa Conclusion ?

It seems that there truly is no quiet clear cut conclusion to this contemporary kashrus controversy. Can one eat it on Pesach? One must ask his local halachic authority for guidance to clear up any quinoa / Kitniyos kashrus confusion or questions. But all concerns being equal, in this author’s mind one thing is certain regarding a holiday that is all about Mesorah and tradition: quinoa was not served at Bubby’s Seder!

For any questions, comments or for the full Mareh Mekomos / sources, please email the author: yspitz@ohr.edu 

Rabbi Yehuda Spitz serves as the Sho’el U’ Meishiv and Rosh Chabura of the Ohr Lagolah Halacha Kollel at Yeshivas Ohr Somayach in Yerushalayim.

Rabbi Spitz will be appearing on the ‘Kashrus On the Air’ radio show, discussing Quinoa and Kitniyos issues this Monday evening, April 7th, at 6 -7 PM Eastern Standard Time. Readers are invited to tune in - 97.5 FM in Brooklyn, or live online - www.jrootradio.com or by calling 718 506 9099.



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Read Comments (33)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Apr 06, 2014 at 12:13 PM yolish Says:

excellent and thorough! thanks. gonna ask my ruv what to do lmayseh.
probably worthwhile to tune into the radio show to break it down.

2

 Apr 06, 2014 at 01:27 PM TexasJew Says:

As always, there are two different opinions and at the end you need to ask your local rabbi.
If the OU says it's fine, it's good enough for me.

3

 Apr 06, 2014 at 02:42 PM anonymous Says:

Quinoa is related to spinach

4

 Apr 06, 2014 at 03:26 PM Mark Levin Says:

"Rav Avrohom Blumenkrantz zt”l, in his annual Kovetz Hilchos Pesach, took a middle road approach, acknowledging both sides to this quinoa quarrel."

He speaks from the kever?

5

 Apr 06, 2014 at 03:53 PM charliehall Says:

That something can be non kitniyot for years -- or even centuries, in the case of peanuts -- and then turn into kitniyot puts the lie to the idea that it is asur to change a long - standing minhag.

I look forward to Rabbi Gardiner reading our of Orthodoxy those who forbid peanuts.

6

 Apr 06, 2014 at 03:55 PM charliehall Says:

That something can be non kitniyot for years -- or even centuries, in the case of peanuts -- and then turn into kitniyot puts the lie to the idea that it is asur to change a long - standing minhag.

I look forward to Rabbi Gordimer reading out of Orthodoxy those whi forbid peanuts on Pesach.

I look forward to Rabbi Gardiner reading our of Orthodoxy those who forbid peanuts.

7

 Apr 06, 2014 at 04:17 PM hookt on quinoa Says:

why is everything now kitniyot? it seems that Ashkenazi Ultra Orthodox all they know is to forbid. Rabbi all this is irrelevant we should be machmir in giving charity 'and kindness to our fellow human beings! For the health conscious quinoa is more important than potatoes and many other potential kitniyot!

8

 Apr 06, 2014 at 04:52 PM qurunchin quinoa! Says:

Not at bubbys Seder table?
Sounds cute but no place in a clear Halachik detailed review
There are limitless edibles that did not make it to bubbys Seder that are found today with the most stringent Hashgacha!

9

 Apr 06, 2014 at 04:57 PM chaimmordche Says:

Reply to #4  
Mark Levin Says:

"Rav Avrohom Blumenkrantz zt”l, in his annual Kovetz Hilchos Pesach, took a middle road approach, acknowledging both sides to this quinoa quarrel."

He speaks from the kever?

tzadikim bmisasam nikreu chaim!
aside for that - what part of zatzal and past tense made you think he has come back.? obviously he took a stand before he was niftar. maybe r elyashiv and shmiras shabbos are also paskening now???

if the aibishter gave you a head you should use it- not abuse it!

10

 Apr 06, 2014 at 04:59 PM in da know Says:

Reply to #6  
charliehall Says:

That something can be non kitniyot for years -- or even centuries, in the case of peanuts -- and then turn into kitniyot puts the lie to the idea that it is asur to change a long - standing minhag.

I look forward to Rabbi Gordimer reading out of Orthodoxy those whi forbid peanuts on Pesach.

I look forward to Rabbi Gardiner reading our of Orthodoxy those who forbid peanuts.

right! so r moshe who acknowledges that there is a longstanding minhag to assur peanuts in many parts of the world -didnt know what he was talking about and was wrong - because charlie hall said so! aha! not quite sure how the cheese rabbi is going to change that

11

 Apr 06, 2014 at 05:03 PM Mark Levin Says:

Reply to #7  
hookt on quinoa Says:

why is everything now kitniyot? it seems that Ashkenazi Ultra Orthodox all they know is to forbid. Rabbi all this is irrelevant we should be machmir in giving charity 'and kindness to our fellow human beings! For the health conscious quinoa is more important than potatoes and many other potential kitniyot!

Thanks for your opinion. Too bad you haven't the foggiest notion of how a rov is to pasken.

12

 Apr 06, 2014 at 05:04 PM oldtimer Says:

Rabbi is right. I never had this keen-waah at my pesach table and dont feel the need to start now just because some kashrus agency reversed their opinion
whats next pesach pizza?

13

 Apr 06, 2014 at 05:28 PM Mark Levin Says:

Reply to #9  
chaimmordche Says:

tzadikim bmisasam nikreu chaim!
aside for that - what part of zatzal and past tense made you think he has come back.? obviously he took a stand before he was niftar. maybe r elyashiv and shmiras shabbos are also paskening now???

if the aibishter gave you a head you should use it- not abuse it!

My point, Mr Genius, was that this wasn't in his sefer, CERTAINLY not before he was niftar.

14

 Apr 06, 2014 at 05:42 PM Reb Yid Says:

Reply to #10  
in da know Says:

right! so r moshe who acknowledges that there is a longstanding minhag to assur peanuts in many parts of the world -didnt know what he was talking about and was wrong - because charlie hall said so! aha! not quite sure how the cheese rabbi is going to change that

And the same R Moshe also acknowledged that in many places there was no minhag to asser peanuts, and people from those shtetlach can eat them. That goes along with his calling kitnyos a minhag, as mentioned in the beginning of the article. So anyone who come from a town where there was a minhag to asser quinoa can't eat it (ha ha), and everyone else can eat it. According to Rav Moshe's pshat, which as we see is far from universal.

15

 Apr 06, 2014 at 05:46 PM Sociologist Says:

Reply to #12  
oldtimer Says:

Rabbi is right. I never had this keen-waah at my pesach table and dont feel the need to start now just because some kashrus agency reversed their opinion
whats next pesach pizza?

There is Pesach pizza (look in your grocer's freezer section).

16

 Apr 06, 2014 at 05:48 PM Left Brooklyn Says:

Reply to #12  
oldtimer Says:

Rabbi is right. I never had this keen-waah at my pesach table and dont feel the need to start now just because some kashrus agency reversed their opinion
whats next pesach pizza?

Why isn't coffee kitniyot?

17

 Apr 06, 2014 at 06:34 PM Teanecknik Says:

Corn can be made into "bread". But what is traditionally corn bread in the U.S. is more akin to cake (and contains flour and is chametz) but it can not be confused with what will call bread . Old Jewish bakeries made a bread called "corn bread" in round loaves which actually did not contain corn but rye flour can not be confused with anything but chametz. Corn kernels or ears of corn (fresh from the field or freezer) can not be confused with grains and should not be issue. But this is a case where chumrous rule and what is the most troubling is that the chumra is based in a "minhag shtus" with all due respect to the Rabbonim who have voiced strong opinions on the matter but who were not schooled in agriculture or chemistry or cooking.

18

 Apr 06, 2014 at 06:50 PM commonsense18 Says:

Reply to #12  
oldtimer Says:

Rabbi is right. I never had this keen-waah at my pesach table and dont feel the need to start now just because some kashrus agency reversed their opinion
whats next pesach pizza?

Pesach pizza !- where have you been?? - that's ancient history - now there is lasagna and bagels.
I always laugh at how people go crazy over a measly 8 days - like there isn't enough to eat- fruits , vegetables, meat chicken , candy, chocolate cakes etc etc etc.
My father told me when he was a little boy , he heard someone ask the Rov if string beans were ok for Pesach. The Rov said, before I posken -let me ask you , when was the last time you ate string beans? . the person asking the shylah answer - about a month ago - the rov answered- do me a favor hold off another 8 days

19

 Apr 06, 2014 at 07:57 PM DovidTheK Says:

I have tried quinoa and it tastes terrible, so I won't be having it this Pesach. I guess I don't need to answer the shaila

20

 Apr 06, 2014 at 08:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
charliehall Says:

That something can be non kitniyot for years -- or even centuries, in the case of peanuts -- and then turn into kitniyot puts the lie to the idea that it is asur to change a long - standing minhag.

I look forward to Rabbi Gordimer reading out of Orthodoxy those whi forbid peanuts on Pesach.

I look forward to Rabbi Gardiner reading our of Orthodoxy those who forbid peanuts.

Yes, we Ashkenazi have brought our ghetto mentality with us to the New World and just refuse to let go. Why adapt when you can keep banning things for reasons that make no sense now, if they ever did? Frankly, I care not what the Ashkenazi orthodox world says and how they try to justify banning peanuts, quinoa, and mustard seeds but allow matzo meal made of wheat. My family and I do not live in Eastern Europe, will never live there, and have the scientific education and intelligence to understand the difference between a dill seed and leavened bread. Ever since I started following Sephardic minhagim a few years ago, Pesach has been a joy. I wish well all those who think it is not sufficient to follow the Torah but feel the compulsion to show their devotion by increasing their unnecessary suffering each year by banning foods that are not forbidden and then coming up with creative and ridiculous reasons why this is a good ida. We're having Kosher for Pesach lentils, hummos and rice just as the Torah allows and feeling just fine about it.

21

 Apr 06, 2014 at 09:55 PM Twitterevitch Says:

Reply to #19  
DovidTheK Says:

I have tried quinoa and it tastes terrible, so I won't be having it this Pesach. I guess I don't need to answer the shaila

If you don't wash the Quinoa it has a bitter taste, but if you rinse it the bitter taste goes away, and it's gevaldig. Give it another try, unless you're very machmir and not only find Quinoa on Pesach mi'yis, but also Sikkis and Shviyis.

22

 Apr 06, 2014 at 10:57 PM DanielQBlog Says:

Reply to #16  
Left Brooklyn Says:

Why isn't coffee kitniyot?

Actually look at Shaarei Tshuvah in 553 that in fact there is a discussion if coffee is kitniyos! Though, it's conclusion is that the minhag is to have coffee. B"H.

Teanecker said
"Corn kernels or ears of corn (fresh from the field or freezer) can not be confused with grains and should not be issue."
No but corn starch does look like flour.
Also, Reb Teanecker, it is important to note that despite that there are rishonim who not only did not hold of kitnoyis (the Tur and others), but held it to be an unfounded minhag (the Beis Yosef brings a rishon that uses the lashon "minhag shtus"); however, the Beis Yosef himself said not to worry about it except for Ashkenazim. Of course, Ashkenazim had many minhagim that were not held of by the Beis Yosef (=Shulchan Aruch); however in my limited learning of the Tur/Beis Yosef I never noticed him say such a thing. That is it is a long standing minhag and even the Beis Yosef himself said for Ashkenazim to follow it - not so easy to dismiss!

23

 Apr 07, 2014 at 02:55 AM nombody Says:

Reply to #22  
DanielQBlog Says:

Actually look at Shaarei Tshuvah in 553 that in fact there is a discussion if coffee is kitniyos! Though, it's conclusion is that the minhag is to have coffee. B"H.

Teanecker said
"Corn kernels or ears of corn (fresh from the field or freezer) can not be confused with grains and should not be issue."
No but corn starch does look like flour.
Also, Reb Teanecker, it is important to note that despite that there are rishonim who not only did not hold of kitnoyis (the Tur and others), but held it to be an unfounded minhag (the Beis Yosef brings a rishon that uses the lashon "minhag shtus"); however, the Beis Yosef himself said not to worry about it except for Ashkenazim. Of course, Ashkenazim had many minhagim that were not held of by the Beis Yosef (=Shulchan Aruch); however in my limited learning of the Tur/Beis Yosef I never noticed him say such a thing. That is it is a long standing minhag and even the Beis Yosef himself said for Ashkenazim to follow it - not so easy to dismiss!

That there was even a question about coffee shows the fact that some of these early decisions were based on ignorance. Coffee beans grow on trees! So by definition cannot be kitniyot.

As for corn - it is not at all obvious that corn is a legume/kitniyot. The only real reason it has that status is because the name corn in Yiddish/German means grain.

24

 Apr 07, 2014 at 05:08 AM commonsense18 Says:

Reply to #20  
Anonymous Says:

Yes, we Ashkenazi have brought our ghetto mentality with us to the New World and just refuse to let go. Why adapt when you can keep banning things for reasons that make no sense now, if they ever did? Frankly, I care not what the Ashkenazi orthodox world says and how they try to justify banning peanuts, quinoa, and mustard seeds but allow matzo meal made of wheat. My family and I do not live in Eastern Europe, will never live there, and have the scientific education and intelligence to understand the difference between a dill seed and leavened bread. Ever since I started following Sephardic minhagim a few years ago, Pesach has been a joy. I wish well all those who think it is not sufficient to follow the Torah but feel the compulsion to show their devotion by increasing their unnecessary suffering each year by banning foods that are not forbidden and then coming up with creative and ridiculous reasons why this is a good ida. We're having Kosher for Pesach lentils, hummos and rice just as the Torah allows and feeling just fine about it.

I like your thinking.- not only regarding Pesach - but for so many other things this mentality prevails- and that which should really be permitted, is prohibited. It seems Judaism is look upon as an endurance test, the more chumros and the more difficult the better.
One day I was in a frum supermarket . I saw a woman who was on the phone , a bag of salad was in her other hand. I over heard her say to the party on the other end of the phone " the salad has 3 hashgachos - but I don't know if she holds from any of them. Should I buy it?" This is SALAD!!!

25

 Apr 07, 2014 at 07:17 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
DanielQBlog Says:

Actually look at Shaarei Tshuvah in 553 that in fact there is a discussion if coffee is kitniyos! Though, it's conclusion is that the minhag is to have coffee. B"H.

Teanecker said
"Corn kernels or ears of corn (fresh from the field or freezer) can not be confused with grains and should not be issue."
No but corn starch does look like flour.
Also, Reb Teanecker, it is important to note that despite that there are rishonim who not only did not hold of kitnoyis (the Tur and others), but held it to be an unfounded minhag (the Beis Yosef brings a rishon that uses the lashon "minhag shtus"); however, the Beis Yosef himself said not to worry about it except for Ashkenazim. Of course, Ashkenazim had many minhagim that were not held of by the Beis Yosef (=Shulchan Aruch); however in my limited learning of the Tur/Beis Yosef I never noticed him say such a thing. That is it is a long standing minhag and even the Beis Yosef himself said for Ashkenazim to follow it - not so easy to dismiss!

"No but corn starch does look like flour. "

Potato starch and "cake meal" also look like flour.

26

 Apr 07, 2014 at 08:34 AM Sociologist Says:

The RS"O is just shaking his head.

27

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:22 PM FinVeeNemtMenSeichel Says:

Reply to #19  
DovidTheK Says:

I have tried quinoa and it tastes terrible, so I won't be having it this Pesach. I guess I don't need to answer the shaila

How enlightening! Thank you so much. I remember, as a youngster, I once asked an esrog soicher in shul what was the difference between an Israeli esrog and a "Yannever." Someone piped up "A Yannever esrog- I would never buy!" Quite emphatically, too. I was always stupefied by why this gentleman thought he brought anything to the conversation.

28

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:34 PM FinVeeNemtMenSeichel Says:

Reply to #18  
commonsense18 Says:

Pesach pizza !- where have you been?? - that's ancient history - now there is lasagna and bagels.
I always laugh at how people go crazy over a measly 8 days - like there isn't enough to eat- fruits , vegetables, meat chicken , candy, chocolate cakes etc etc etc.
My father told me when he was a little boy , he heard someone ask the Rov if string beans were ok for Pesach. The Rov said, before I posken -let me ask you , when was the last time you ate string beans? . the person asking the shylah answer - about a month ago - the rov answered- do me a favor hold off another 8 days

Nice editorial. But let me clue you in on a phenomenon that's been prevalent since time immemorial: Shailos and Teshuvos. Someone asks a question in Halacha, and a learned rabbi answers it. Crazy, no? It gets better. People other than yourself or those you know have different nutritional needs. You might find this funny, but some of us have incorporated foods you've never heard of into our diets. If someone finds a certain food item with names you cant pronounce or your bubby never served a necessary part of their menu, it's, shockingly, important for them to ascertain they can eat it on Pesach. And here's the kicker: we should admire such people rather than mock them. Sorry if I've confused you.

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 Apr 07, 2014 at 01:00 PM Kashrus pro Says:

Reply to #20  
Anonymous Says:

Yes, we Ashkenazi have brought our ghetto mentality with us to the New World and just refuse to let go. Why adapt when you can keep banning things for reasons that make no sense now, if they ever did? Frankly, I care not what the Ashkenazi orthodox world says and how they try to justify banning peanuts, quinoa, and mustard seeds but allow matzo meal made of wheat. My family and I do not live in Eastern Europe, will never live there, and have the scientific education and intelligence to understand the difference between a dill seed and leavened bread. Ever since I started following Sephardic minhagim a few years ago, Pesach has been a joy. I wish well all those who think it is not sufficient to follow the Torah but feel the compulsion to show their devotion by increasing their unnecessary suffering each year by banning foods that are not forbidden and then coming up with creative and ridiculous reasons why this is a good ida. We're having Kosher for Pesach lentils, hummos and rice just as the Torah allows and feeling just fine about it.

Do us all a favor and eat a boars head salami on rye over pesach.
You argue on everything and you have no basis to your argument other than being a complete ahm ha'oretz.

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 Apr 07, 2014 at 01:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
commonsense18 Says:

I like your thinking.- not only regarding Pesach - but for so many other things this mentality prevails- and that which should really be permitted, is prohibited. It seems Judaism is look upon as an endurance test, the more chumros and the more difficult the better.
One day I was in a frum supermarket . I saw a woman who was on the phone , a bag of salad was in her other hand. I over heard her say to the party on the other end of the phone " the salad has 3 hashgachos - but I don't know if she holds from any of them. Should I buy it?" This is SALAD!!!

Crazy, isn't it? Speaking as someone who lives outside the circled wagons of Willi, KY, Lakewood and BP, I watch in amazement as many of the frum community become more and more restrictive. They then wonder why the majority of American Jews have turned away from their brand of observance and decide it is because they are not strict enough. They never do any critical analysis to come to the conclusion that it is precisely the unnecessary chumros and strictness that drives people away. The extra yomtov days of Rosh Hashana, Sukkos etc., the 4 hour marathon services (does Hashem REALLY need to hear Kaddish ten thousand times a day?), kitniyot, having to wear a black suit and white shirt- none of this is in the Torah at all. Just because our ancestors adapted to their circumstances and environment (the need to replace the Temple sacrificial service, the uncertainty of when holidays actually occur, medieval agricultural practices, the lack of scientific knowledge) doesn't mean that we have to stay that way forever. Hashem gave us brains - what is wrong with occasionally using them?

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 Apr 07, 2014 at 06:31 PM thanbo Says:

Reply to #4  
Mark Levin Says:

"Rav Avrohom Blumenkrantz zt”l, in his annual Kovetz Hilchos Pesach, took a middle road approach, acknowledging both sides to this quinoa quarrel."

He speaks from the kever?

His sons are still producing the annual book. Perhaps this citation came from the current one, in which case it may be a misquote, or it was printed in the current one in the father's name, or it came from an old one, when the father was still below 10 tfachim.

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 Apr 07, 2014 at 09:09 PM commonsense18 Says:

Reply to #28  
FinVeeNemtMenSeichel Says:

Nice editorial. But let me clue you in on a phenomenon that's been prevalent since time immemorial: Shailos and Teshuvos. Someone asks a question in Halacha, and a learned rabbi answers it. Crazy, no? It gets better. People other than yourself or those you know have different nutritional needs. You might find this funny, but some of us have incorporated foods you've never heard of into our diets. If someone finds a certain food item with names you cant pronounce or your bubby never served a necessary part of their menu, it's, shockingly, important for them to ascertain they can eat it on Pesach. And here's the kicker: we should admire such people rather than mock them. Sorry if I've confused you.

please tell me what - can't be eaten on pesach that can't fulfill any dietary need.- Like I said before - vegetables, fruits, chicken fish, cheese etc etc etc etc. .and if its a real health issue , kitneyos is allowed. People have just become wimps & over indulgent and cant stand to be without their pizza ,bagels for 8 measly days- you have not confused me - however you seem confused, or delusional.

33

 Apr 08, 2014 at 11:12 AM Lawyer Says:

"Ever since I started following Sephardic minhagim a few years ago, Pesach has been a joy."

Just curious. Do you arise early for a whole month of selichos starting Elul as do the Sephardim?

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