Ramapo, NY – Ramapo Police will conduct an investigation into the treatment of a female Hasidic suspect following criticism that the officer was insensitive for fingerprinting the woman and asking her to remove her wig.
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But the incident also has resulted in a flood of support for officer Jonathan Quinn by town residents who say he is being treated unfairly and that he acted properly.
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“We are very proud of our police department,” Town Supervisor Christopher St. Lawrence said this afternoon during a meeting of the town’s police commission to discuss the incident.
“We are always looking for ways that our police department be more in tune with the needs of our community,” St. Lawrence, who heads the commission, added.
Reports of the investigation, which St. Lawrence called a “fact-finding mission,” are expected within about three weeks.
Most of the discussion during the meeting was conducted in executive session, which meant the public was not allowed to attend.
Quinn has not been punished over the incident, St. Lawrence said, but he has said the officer’s action was insensitive.
Wearing a wig or scarf to cover their hair is an expression of modesty for married Hasidic Jewish women. Hasidic women don’t touch men other than their husbands and relatives.
“I sincerely hope that the community will accept my heartfelt apologies for the insensitive behavior that occurred,” St. Lawrence said on Friday.
Today, he said his intention last week was to react to the situation in order to dampen any consternation that was growing in the community over the insensitivity. Members of the Hasidic community had threatened to protest over the action.
Quinn is on a previously scheduled vacation this week, Police Chief Peter Brower said.
‘But the incident also has resulted in a flood of support for officer Jonathan Quinn by town residents who say he is being treated unfairly and that he acted properly.’
Those must have consisted of those ‘brilliant’ commentors that feel more for the humiliation of the officer than the humiliation of their own fellow sister!!!
One thing this incident has exposed is the unbelievable anti-Semitism brewing just beneath the surface in Ramapo. For anyone thinking we are living in the goldene medina, go to the Journal News website and see the terrible comments posted there, expressing much hatred that is unrelated to the reported story. If the Nazis were to come here tomorrow, G-d forbid, they would have many happy helpers.
In addition, the initial accusation that the accused had stolen close to a million dollars, has by now been corrected to a little more than $8,000, without any apology or regret. While any amount taken in welfare fraud is wrong, the misinformation is simply libelous. In addition, from the comments posted there, one would think all 43 accused are frum yidden, when in fact they are just a tiny minority.
Anonymous Says:
‘But the incident also has resulted in a flood of support for officer Jonathan Quinn by town residents who say he is being treated unfairly and that he acted properly.’
Those must have consisted of those ‘brilliant’ commentors that feel more for the humiliation of the officer than the humiliation of their own fellow sister!!!
06-23-2008 – 9:37 PM
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Would you call Sam Berkowits AkA *son of sam* your brother too? Why not? Who cares that he mudered many people in cold blood , he is still jewish after all. Right?
Buddy, Get this straight once and for all. She aint my or your sister . Her being jewish doesn`t make her my sister if she creates a massive chillul hashem by stealing from the government and taxpayers money, and then she has the chutzpa to pull the whole ehrliche world into her sob story of the cops making her remove her wig. Of course the cop had the right to make her remove her wig. i dont see the issue here. Asking for a female and not getting one is the only questionable issue here
She may be jewish and farfrumpt but she aint ehrlich.
God will not ask u if you were frum. He will ask u if you were ehrlich . Maybe the teachers that give chosson and kallah classes should focus on not stealing from the government instead of all the other stupidities they focus on.
Why don’t you just shut the hell up already. Go spew your venom at the journal news and leave us alone already. Chasidic cop my foot!
Son Of Sam (David Berkowitz) is not Jewish, he was born Richard David Falco and adopted a few days later by a Jewish couple.
Hasidic cop-
Firstly, i respect and appreciate your service. Secondly, because a jewish person committs an act that is not ehrlich, it does not impute to all her acts that they are not erhlich, and therefore, that she is not “your sister.” There are only few instances where the Gemara and Halacha considers a person who violates one provision of the Torah as if they could violate the whole Torah, and therefore, not included in Klal Yisroel. For instance, a Mumar L’avodah Zorah is a Mumar L’kol Hatorah Kulah.
But, stealing and thereby creating a chillul hashem, without more, does not rise to the level where the person is not to be considred “your sister.” By calling this woman “not your sister” becasue she stole from the gov’t and created a chillul hashem, you have created a new rule that goes beyond the Torah. Of course, you’re entitled to your own opinion but the Torah is where the concept of “your sister” first originates so you must abide by the limits set by the Torah.
Take it easy all of you. The woman who runs around about her wig being taken off by a goy should remeber that she is a thief.
If this was a muslim that had to have her hair piece removed would anyone say a word?
A thief is a thief and should be treated like one.
This lady caused a massive chilul hashem.
—-CORRECTION—-
Anon. 10:08
TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT!!! Stealing from the govt. doesn’t make the halacha of covering your hair before a strange man totally null!!!
Dear 9:37 PMer
Son of Sam David Berkowitz was not Jewish! Rav Moshe was told that he was Jewish and that the NY Post had printed his Bar Mitzvah pictures. Rav Moshe zatzal said, “Check again – this is a mistake.” He was right. Dylan Klebold was also not Jewish too.
Sam Berkowitz aka Son of Sam had a Jewish name and was raised by Jewish parents. He was born to biological parents who were Italian. Sam B was a Jew in name only.
Some cop you are lol
The police officers in Ramapo should know better, but the frum Jews should know EVEN BETTER!
It was a terrible thing to have her remove her wig, yet it was an EVEN more TERRIBLE thing to make such a Chillul Hashem out of it!
The police could have gotten lessons much more privately, then the “affair” of the arrest could have stayed “PRIVATE” and it wouldn’t make the frum look worse than necessary!
Now the Frum Haters make everyone believe that ALL arrested were frum, when actually only a tiny percent were Jews!
What a shame!
Someone rushed to make a big deal! They will give a din vacheshbon….
here we go again can I ask you something when the goverment told them a year ago that they owed the money they didn’t pay it because they felt that they don’t need to pay it and that is why they waited until it goes to court ,why do all you people say she is a stealer………what your saying is if a goy comes to you and tells you that you owe him money you should pay it with out even blinking a eye right you would tell him you want it to go to court that is exacly what she did I mean come on just think before you post your stupit comment and start being dan lkaf zecus
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE JEWISH WORLD TODAY NEBACH ON ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT BELIVE EVERYTHING THE MEDIA SAYS
Some of you are starting to really show your Am Ha’Ratsus. As many in this community are.
The issue of beeing dressed modestly is one of the single most important things one most be Zohir about. There is no heter at all for one to violate it.
Except for one thing. The Shulchan Oruch paskens
that when one is the proccess of doing his job, he is concentrating on his craft, and not on what he is seeing.
Sounds shocking, right?
The Gemmora tells a story of an Amoira who had the job of “Mikvah Man”, making sure that women toiveld properly.
But that is not for us, today, right?
Wrong again. Women dancing while jewish men are watching is Erva, Abizraihu D’arayus. So how could women dance at a chasuna when a frum male photographer is taking pictures?
we rely on this Shulchan Oruch.
What about a Jewish doctor seeing hair, which is Erva? we know that A choleh may NOT be oiver arayus, even if it IS pikuach nefesh, so much more when it isn’t?
Same Heter. Otherwise women could not use male jewish doctors.
Now, here is the kicker. Beeing “not tzniyus is only Abizraihu D’arayus when ONE IS IN FRONT OF A JEW. There is lifnei iver, a jew must be zohir not to be motzie zera. IN FRONT OF A GOY IT IS MUCH MORE LENIENT becaus there is no issur of lifnei iver because they have no issur of motzie zera.
That is why my rebbe had a goy photographer at his chasuna, and I had a female photographer at mine, for the women and a male for the men. We did not want to rely on this heter for a frum man to see women dancing. I was also carefull, by the way, to make sure the entire bandstand was in the men’s section. It shocks me that at yeshivishe chasunas they have the bandstand in front of the mechitzah, so half the band watches the women dance.
Now, getting back to our situation here.
In this situation there is halachicaly no arayus, no problem of her hair being uncovered, and also, by the way no problem with a man fingerprinting her, just like the people in monsey have no problem getting their wrists stamped at Chuckie Cheeses by members of the oposit gender.
All the above can be checked with your Rov, but is Halachicaly Emes L’Amito.
The only embarasment here is that a gonif who’s story should not have made the front page of the newspaper and create a chilul hashem did, by the actions of the gonif herself
Hasidic Cop:
You are the epidemy of whom anon. 9:37 was referring to!
Don’t you get it? Chasidic Cop is right about her not being his sister, for obviously he is not our brother! Thank G-D that he has admitted that he is not part of Klal Yisroel! Now let him go to ….
whatever baloni that’s all i can say, if we let him get away , he sure will and then he will do another thing!
Anonymous Says:
Hasidic Cop:
You are the epidemy of whom anon. 9:37 was referring to!
06-24-2008 – 8:22 AM
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Your making yourself look dumber than you already are so sush up if you have nothing to say other then rely on someoneelses stupidity. Your a typicalMonkey see monkey doer.But its no surprise in your small geheto type ,life style
this is the first time a chasidic women was arrested in that department. Give them a break and a little learning curve. he acted within guidelines, perhpas the guidelines need to be reviewed and they are being reviewed. But he handled a criminal or perpetrator as he was supposed to at that time.
Son Of Sam is not Jewish, neither is Elliot Spitzer thank G-d, but the world does not know that so let them know there is a difference.
One good thing about this whole affair! All (or most) of the Halachos of Shulchan Aruch and [some] Siffrei Mussar brought into the discussion.
Der oylem vet noch verren Talmidei Chachamim! English spelling, I don’t know! but Halachic commentary coming out of this whole discussion is wonderful! Especially anon. 5:06AM (Maybe it has to do with the time of day)!!!
Why are you all so surprised at the comments in the Journal News and the Heral Record??
Our OWN brothers and sisters seem to find pleasure in jumping to condemn their own flesh and blood even before they know the details.
It’s sickening and pathetic.
BTW- The herald record has no IP tracking system to remove multiple aliases. There are a few rednecks there that change their names every few days. Keep that in mind.
Furthermore, I wouldn’t be shocked if some of those hate-mongers are actually ex-Frum yidden R”L who cannot get over their conscience.
>b> Chasidic cop:
Are you the same idiot who keeps on posting stories about the Chassidim on all the Orange and Sullivan county blogs?
YOU ARE NOT A COP. You are a demented coward who seems to have some serious self-hating issues. Sadly, you are not alone.
Lipa,
Thanks for being a Poshiter Yid.
A Fan
I am an orthodox Jewish police officer and the way i see it is that for a police officer to make an arrest he must have probable cause this means the person probably committed the crime. this does not mean the person is guilty of anything. the fact that many here have posted that this Jewish woman is guilty only demonstrates the ignorance of those who are posting and also this is motsi shem ra everyone here who has stated that she is guilty is accusing her without knowing all the facts. as a police officer i have had to fingerprint women when there was not a female available to do so relying on the heter mentioned in another post but even with a female not being available if the prisoner were to ask for religious purposes no matter what religion or for philosophical or for whatever reason it were that she prefer a woman to fingerprint her this would definitely be taken into consideration and all attempts would be made to get a female to do it even if a female has to come from a neighboring precinct just because this is not a big deal there is no reason why it has to be a man who fingerprints her and because it is not such a difficult accomodation these days. i am sure that my wife would definitely have felt very uncomfortable getting fingerprinted by a man and having a photo of her taken without her wig. The whole thing about taking off the wig is if you would tell me that the officer made her take the wig off to make sure that she was not concealing any contraband that is one thing but as a trained police officer i know that it was definitely not necessary at all especially due to the nature of the crime to have taken her wig off against her will FOR A MUGSHOT! I have seen african american women that use wigs in my precinct many times they have never had to take off their wigs because there is absolutely no reason to do so. For all those that have said such harsh things and that it was right what the cop did should be ashamed of yourselves. As a police officer i know exactly why this happened these cops were so curious to see what was under that wig that they had to force her to take it off for the only purpose of posting it around the locker room of the precinct and making fun of jewish people. There are many many cops that hate jews just read their blogs such as THEE RANT. do not compare a muslim woman who covers her face completely who needs to have her FACE photographed to a Jewish woman who has her FACE UNCOVERED. I have seen various times muslim women photographed with their head covering on and face uncovered. I myself have arrested muslim women who have asked me to keep on their headcovering and they have definitely been allowed to do so and for more serious crimes than this. had this happened in the city disciplinary action would have been taken against this officer by the department and not only that she would have been allowed to make her complaint at the civilian complaint review board and she could definitely file a lawsuit against the department. there is no reason to have not taken her requests into consideration for the scary crime of welfare fraud which is in dispute whether she will be found guilty or not and even if she is does that mean that she intentionally wanted to steal money from the government or could it have been a mistake. Please stop jumping to conclusions and give people the benefit of the doubt it is a great mitsva!