Postville, IA – Young Israel Rabbi: Modern Orthodox Jews A Bunch of Idiots For Boycotting Rubashkin

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    Postville, IA – Fearing an onslaught of protestors, kosher meat giant Agriprocessors hastily changed a meeting planned for Tuesday afternoon in Midtown into a conference call.

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    Agriprocessors’ attorney, Nathan Lewin, and the company’s newly hired compliance officer, former U.S. attorney Jim Martin, spoke to about 20 listeners who had been invited to participate.

    They included “distributors and community leaders,” said Juda Engelmayer, senior vice president of the public relations firm 5WPR, which was recently hired by the embattled kosher meat giant.

    “Having a meeting in a public forum where too many people RSVP’d, it seemed like it was going to become more of a circus than an informational meeting,” said Engelmayer.

    During the 45-minute telephone briefing Tuesday, Martin told his listeners that “ ‘he has zero tolerance

    for any wrongdoing and that anything it takes to bring [Agriprocessors] up to where they’re supposed to be he’s going to do,” Engelmayer recalled.

    He did not cite any specifics about what needs correction at the plant, which is struggling to replenish its workforce after a raid by federal immigration authorities on May 12 removed about half of its production line staff.

    Lewin, who did not return phone messages, said during the conference call that “it’s important to correct what’s wrong, but also to separate rumor, gossip and just smearing,” according to the Engelmayer.

    Rabbi Pesach Lerner, executive vice president of the National Council of Young Israel, a network of 225 Orthodox synagogues, participated in the conference call. He told The Jewish Week, in a phone interview, “We have a right to demand answers of the Rubashkins [owners of Agriprocessors] but not to convict them before anything happens.”

    Immigration authorities at the Postville, Iowa, plant, arrested nearly 400 workers. Most have been sentenced to five-month prison sentences followed by immediate deportation.

    The company itself, which is owned by Brooklyn-based Lubavitcher Aaron Rubashkin, has not been charged by the federal government with breaking any laws.

    The affidavit for a search warrant filed by federal immigration authorities, however, listed allegations against management, including knowingly hiring underage workers and illegal immigrants and paying them less than the mandated minimum wage, among other things.

    The company has also been under scrutiny for the past four years by state and federal workplace-safety monitoring agencies, and the animal-rights group PETA.

    In response to the current and past charges relating to workplace conditions, two groups — one aligned with the Conservative movement, the other initiated by Modern Orthodox Jews — are organizing boycotts of Rubashkin products.

    The efforts seem to be making some impact.

    The B’nai B’rith Youth Organization, which will have some 900 Jewish teens at its three overnight camps this summer, says that it is boycotting the company’s meat.

    “A lot of Hillels and restaurants around the country are changing their meat,” said Shmuly Yanklowitz, founder and co-director of Uri L’Tzedek: Awaken to Justice, which, he says, has collected more than 1,500 signatures of people and groups which are now boycotting Agriprocessors products.

    Rabbi Lerner of the National Council of Young Israel dismissed the number of petition-signers. “Fifteen hundred signers doesn’t impress me a bit,” he said. “Give me an hour and I’ll get a petition for anything on the Web and get you 5,000 signatures.”

    He described Uri L’Tzedek’s organizers as being “young kids who need something to put them on the map” who are taking advantage of Agriprocessor’s current problems.

    He said that “we’re a bunch of idiots” to be Jews boycotting other Jews. “We’re going crazy, and I don’t think they [Agriprocessors] deserve it,” he said. “I’ve been eating their meat in places where no other company gets to, and for that the Jewish community owes them a debt of gratitude and at least the benefit of the doubt.

    Still, the boycott seems to be making an impression on Agriprocessors. Representatives of Uri L’Tzedek met with people connected to Agriprocessors on May 11.

    “They were very focused on trying to intimidate and prove wrong our positions,” said Yanklowitz. “At the same time they were admitting to a bunch of allegations, saying ‘of course we had children working there but some of them looked over age,’ and that ‘if there was abuse there it probably wasn’t one of the rabbis,’ ” he continued.

    His organization asked Agriprocessors to agree, in writing, to pay above minimum wage and to have a workplace sexual misconduct policy. The company has not yet gotten those documents to Uri L’Tzedek.

    “They sat down and agreed to the commitments, even if they haven’t fulfilled them yet. We will keep pressure high and increase consumer awareness and refraining from their products while at the same time trying to partner with them from the inside,” he said.

    Requests to interview AgriProcessors management were passed along, said Engelmayer, but no one was made available. The company’s former public relations consultant, Menachem Lubinsky, did not return phone messages. AfgriProcessors took on the New York-based firm 5W, which also represents evangelical televangelist Benny Hinn, controversial Pastor John Hagee, the Trinity Broadcasting Network, the Zionist Organization of America and Israel’s Ministry of Tourism, among others, after the bad publicity following the immigration raid.

    Agriprocessors’ brands include Aaron’s Best and Rubashkin meats. They were the largest producer of kosher beef products in the country, until the immigration raid, but are now struggling to replenish their staff.

    The company reportedly has been hiring homeless people from Amarillo, Tex., through a staff agency there, and bringing them to Postville to work for $10 an hour — double what the search warrant affidavit said they paid the illegal immigrants, and well above the federal minimum wage.

    An Iowa staffing company removed 150 people it had placed at Agriprocessors after the raid because of production line safety concerns. A smaller group of Native American workers brought to Postville from another AgriProcessors plant in Nebraska, left shortly after they arrived, citing poor working conditions and unkept promises by the meat manufacturer.

    And, it seems, Agriprocessors has not been able to restore its production to pre-raid levels.

    The Kosher Marketplace on the Upper West Side has recently not been carrying much Agriprocessors product, said its owner Alan Kaufman.

    “There are some questions about whether people should buy their brand or not. Some customers mentioned it to me, so to some degree I guess it’s in the back of my head” when he does ordering, Kaufman said. But in any case, right now Agriprocessors isn’t shipping what they used to.

    “They don’t have much on the market.”


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    32 Comments
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    honestlyfrum
    honestlyfrum
    15 years ago

    Lerner does not speak for the Modern Orthodox Community. He is the head of an organiztion that claims to pride itself on being Modern Orthodox, yet he daven in an Agudah. If we in the MO community choose to boycott a company based on current alegations of mistreating workers and past proven alegations of animal cruelty who is he to say otherwise.

    Michal
    Michal
    15 years ago

    It’s very unfortunate that modern Orthodox Jews would have the audacity to boycott other Jews. What happened to dan L’chaf Z’chus, and loving your fellow Jew.

    Meatloaf
    Meatloaf
    15 years ago

    Pesach Lerner said:

    … that “we’re a bunch of idiots” to be Jews boycotting other Jews.

    He is half right.

    Milhouse
    Milhouse
    15 years ago

    Dishonestly “frum”, you can boycott whomever you want, but by doing so you remove yourself from klal yisrael. Don’t come looking for my help when you’re in need, because if I learn that you participated in this boycott then you can starve in the street for all I care, and I will not lift a finger to help you.

    sruly
    sruly
    15 years ago

    just don’t eat meat save money time hassle and the headache to figure out which meats are good or bad!!!!!!!!! and close your mouth if you have loshon hora to share with the oilam who battuls reading the news whatch 24/7 GO LEARN FOR ALL THE SICK AND POOR YIDDEN WHO COULD POSSIBLY USE YOUR TEFFILOS!!!!!!!!!

    flatbush  eatery
    flatbush eatery
    15 years ago

    Milhouse Says:

    Dishonestly “frum”, you can boycott whomever you want, but by doing so you remove yourself from klal yisrael. Don’t come looking for my help when you’re in need, because if I learn that you participated in this boycott then you can starve in the street for all I care, and I will not lift a finger to help you.

    06-25-2008 – 11:18 PM

    00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

    You sound pathetic. Just listen to yourself.

    You sound like a 5 year old .

    **starve in the street for all I care, and I will not lift a finger to help you.** Your pathetic . Why dont you grow up and talk to Mr Rubashkin to shape up instead what do u do? You threaten all those participating in the Boycott. BTW by you convincing everyone that there are no problems you are removing yourself from klall yisroel, because leasid lavo god will ask u why you were machshil 10`s of thousands of people when you know good and well that rubash meat and poultry is very questionable, both in kashroos and in cleanlness among other areas. Be a mensh and stop covering for them . If you need the job im sure there are plenty places you can find one that is offering a KOSHER job.

    ruthy
    ruthy
    15 years ago

    Milhouse Says:

    Dishonestly “frum”, you can boycott whomever you want, but by doing so you remove yourself from klal yisrael. Don’t come looking for my help when you’re in need, because if I learn that you participated in this boycott then you can starve in the street for all I care, and I will not lift a finger to help you.

    06-25-2008 – 11:18 PM

    ———————————————

    your writing like an immature child. Face the facts . Rubash will never suceed in coming out of this massive hole they dug for themselves. Just forget about them and move on . If you are out of a job then daven to hashem instead of trying to whitewash the truth of Agri. There is no more cheskas kashrus by them just like a goy does not have any cheskas kashrus. They simply ran the buiness to the ground and they should seek for a new buyer a n EHRLICHE buyer not a FRUM one. FRUM is meaningless in todays velt.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    they get 1500 not to buy they will have 5000 to buy. its a shanda jews do this to jews.

    Matzahlocal101
    Matzahlocal101
    15 years ago

    “honestlyfrum Says:

    If we in the MO community choose to boycott a company based on current alegations of mistreating workers and past proven alegations of animal cruelty who is he to say otherwise.”

    Sorry to inform you but your title should have been “honestly ignorant” or “ignorantly frum”. The Torah actually says otherwise. If you boycott based on “current allegations” (please note the correct spelling) Then you are mikabel loshon hora, you’re not don kol odom lkaf zchus,

    you’re not mikayaim “al tadin es chavercha od she’tagiya limikomo,” you’re oiver on sinas chinom, you are not mikayim vi’ahavta lerayacha komocha, in advocating others to do so you are oiver lifnai eever and repeat loshon hora, and the list goes on. As far as cruelty to animals, the torah says once the animal is shechted it’s dead. If you understood the physiology of the animals in the PETA video, there is nothing wrong al pi Torah and videos of the animals stumbling around only confirms there was nothing wrong with the shechita. Lack of oxygen to the brain cause the same intoxicating effects as carbon monoxide poisoning or alcohol. Watch the video again and the animals do the exact same thing they would do if they were toit shikkur (intoxicated.) The bellowing in the video has been recognized by the USDA as a forgery because an animal cannot make noise once it schechted. The fact that PETA “experts” claim blinking the eyes wagging the tail and bellowing are all signs that the animal is FULLY CONSCIENTIOUS! shows how little their experts know about animals.

    A Yid
    A Yid
    15 years ago

    “LERNER?”

    Just like Haskel Lookstein (Written intentionally without the Rav) when discussing HaRav Shach, ZT”L. There is absolutely no kavod haRav. Rav Lerner is the head of the organization that runs a “Modern Orthodox” mindset, and yet, even from the camp he is there to help, his kavod is shot.

    “He is the head of an organiztion that claims to pride itself on being Modern Orthodox, yet he daven in an Agudah.”

    What shaychus does this have with him heading Young Israel? The sinas chinam written by this statement is astounding. Since when is it a bad thing to strive to be frummer or daven in a place that is not “Modern Orthodox”?

    I am disgusted.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Can anybody show me where in Orach Chaim, Yoreh Deah, Even Hoezer or Choshen Mishpot it says that the owner of a company is at fault if he is presented with false credentials by an applicant? Can anyone show me where it says that an employer is responsible for the morals of his employees? Can anyone show me where its says that an employer has to do more than the legally defined due diligence of an applicant for a non-Halachically critical position of employment? Finally, what is the source for allowing laymen to criticize the Psak of a Rov in regards to Shechitah on the grounds that it is politically incorrect?

    nebach
    nebach
    15 years ago

    please lets be normal here…I dont know who this uri tzedek is,however I could see that he is very buzy with nonsence. Nothing is wrong with Rubashkin there is no charges against them so stop the stupity. I asked my butcher whats going on if there is any meat, he told me that there was shortege but its over they have how much meat you could dream of.

    moshe der g
    moshe der g
    15 years ago

    to all you reader and complainers

    let us face this fact. almost every kosher producer of meat in america has the same “working conditions” they all have illegals working for them. from alle processing to all the other chicken places and fish and all the kosher resturaunts.

    so the time will come when all these rightous people will be exposed that they eat at these places, or have thei bar/bat mitzvahs done by them.

    as the saying goes people in glass houses should not be throwing stones.

    the ou should keep its mouth shut and stick to what it is supposed to do and that is kashrus.

    they do NOT have to mix in to anything else not working cnditions not pay scale not legal or illegal. because if they do it will all come back to haunt them. when they we will be required to do the same for every pesach hotel every resturaunt etc.

    it will never end

    and remeber veuhavta lerayacha kumoichu

    Yankl
    Yankl
    15 years ago

    Cheer up people Mashiach is coming. If you practice love to your fellow Jews whether it is Rabbi Lerener or Rabbi Rubashkin, you are helping Moshiach come sooner. If you practice hate, the you will still not stand in Hashem’s way in bringing Moshiach. So stop hating and chill out. And do what I tell my kids, if you have nothing good to say, keep your mouth shut!

    Alteryid
    Alteryid
    15 years ago

    To anonymous 10:02. I thing they will all say Dina dMalchoosa Dina. Therefore, since the law of the country says it is illegal, it is illegal!! However, they are innocent until proven guilty. Which will happen soon enough.

    Meatloaf
    Meatloaf
    15 years ago

    Agriprocessors is operating at about 20%+/- in beef production and 30% in poultry. Poultry is whole birds only, no cut-up. Anything Lubinsky says cannot be trusted. He works for Rubashkin and repeats whatever he is told without questioning. If you want to know how much meat Rubashkin is producing go stand outside the plant and count the number of cattle and the number of birds going in. There are locals in Postville doing that which is how we know Lubinsky is full of — puffy white marshmellows.

    Michal
    Michal
    15 years ago

    If the Rubashkins can donate 1000 pounds of meat to help the people of Iowa, I am sure Rubashkins are doing just fine.

    May Hashem continue to bless them with success and helping Klal Yisroel.

    Chaim Yankel
    Chaim Yankel
    15 years ago

    Moshe d ger – Not all meat plants have the ‘same working conditions’.

    Alle doesn’t have any complaints.. and I think they may be unionized.

    Truthfully, the issue isn’t really the illegals, although Agri can’t claim they didn’t know, when the Social Security Admin had over 500 questions about the numbers they provided..

    The issue is all about the treatment of the employees. If the allegations are true, then these people shouldn’t be allowed to serve Kosher meat to the masses.

    Its one thing to hire anyone willing to work, legal or not, its another to treat them like the cattle they are butchering.

    LeiderLeider...
    LeiderLeider...
    15 years ago

    I am confused. Truly. What exactly is our concern with Rubshakin? Is it that they employed individuals with a questionable legal status? If this is the case, I am utterly confounded on how we can shop anywhere! Can we assume, even remotely, that the other Shechitas employ no illegal aliens? Do we assume that they pay everyone on the books? How do we shop in grocery stores?

    I am looking for an uncomplicated honest answer here. If some can provide me with a proper anwer to my questions, I would be very obliged.

    Thank you.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    “Not all meat plants have the ‘same working conditions’. Alle doesn’t have any complaints.. and I think they may be unionized.”

    Alle doesn’t do any abbatoir production in the USA. Ditto International Glatt. Their kill is done in South America where work conditions are far worse and there are fewer avenues of recourse. Unions? Fuhgettaboudit!! Oh, and all the “Beis Yosef Glatt” from those shechitos goes to Israel, not the US.

    anonymous
    anonymous
    15 years ago

    LeiderLeider… Says:

    I am confused. Truly. What exactly is our concern with Rubshakin?

    *****************************************

    That the people that we trust with our meat have a higher Yiddishe standards than a goy off of the street. That Yiras Shomayim extends way down to the neshama, not just to the pocketbook.

    Else – I could buy from Hebrew National.

    anonymous
    anonymous
    15 years ago

    Anonymous Says:

    “Not all meat plants have the ‘same working conditions’. Alle doesn’t have any complaints.. and I think they may be unionized.”

    Alle doesn’t do any abbatoir production in the USA.

    Alle shechts at Rabbi Heinemann’s slaughterhouse in Baltimore. Ever hear any animal rights group complain about the place? It is called J W Treuth. MOnsey Glatt also shechts there. Anyone hear of any illegal aliens working there?

    Even though Trueth is smaller than Agri, it is run very well and you will not hear any complaints about them, Even the workers are happy.

    anonymous
    anonymous
    15 years ago

    Anonymous Says:

    Can anybody show me where in Orach Chaim, Yoreh Deah, Even Hoezer or Choshen Mishpot it says that the owner of a company is at fault if he is presented with false credentials by an applicant? Can anyone show me where it says that an employer is responsible for the morals of his employees? Can anyone show me where its says that an employer has to do more than the legally defined due diligence of an applicant for a non-Halachically critical position of employment? Finally, what is the source for allowing laymen to criticize the Psak of a Rov in regards to Shechitah on the grounds that it is politically incorrect?

    ****************************************

    While you are at it, can you show me where says you cannot learn gemora with a chicken on your head?

    I also expect the owners to have a higher standard than a normal person.

    Meatloaf
    Meatloaf
    15 years ago

    Alle shechts at several locations in the US. DOn’t know what percentage of their meat is domestic and what percent is imported. One of their major suppliers is Aurora Packing, in Aurora, IL. It is an organized shop where both the workers and shochtim belong to (different) unions. The relationship between managment and workers is just fine.

    To LeiderLeider-

    The problem isn’t that undocumented workers are employeed at Agriprocessors. The problem is how workers – documented or undocumented – are treated, and whether conditions of “Oshek” exist at the plant. Unfortunately, the OU doesn’t feel qualified to apply basic Jewish law regarding the treatment of workers, and only feels qualified to deal with questions of Shechita. Consequently, the situation at Agriprocessors degenerated to a point where real questions have arisen about possible crimes having been committed there. At least one crime has been committed – the employement of underage children at the plant. We know because ICE picked those children up during the raid and the children could not be released on humanitarian grounds unless a parent or legal guardian came forward with proof of age. People complain that the company couldn’t tell how old the child was, if the child submitted false documents. But as someone noted on another blog, any bouncer at any bar in the US could spot an underage child so one would expect Agriprocessors to be able to do the same.

    Untimately, when it comes to kashrut it is all a question of trust. Despite words of assurance from those who have a financial interest in the continued success of the company, there is real doubt and a serious loss of confidence in the firm.

    anonymous
    anonymous
    15 years ago

    Michal Says:

    It’s very unfortunate that modern Orthodox Jews would have the audacity to boycott other Jews. What happened to dan L’chaf Z’chus, and loving your fellow Jew.

    ***************************************

    Did you just besmirch all of Modern Orthodoxy? What happened when Lubavitch boycotted Satmar Cholov Yisroel when they wanted their own hechsher??

    We had a good, reliable glatt meat production before Rubashkin and we will continue to have it after them. Whether or not the Rubashkin family will be involved will be up to them.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Thank you Meatloaf for your response.

    – LeiderLeider (not logged in)

    Matzahlocal101
    Matzahlocal101
    15 years ago

    Chaim Yankel Says:

    Truthfully, the issue isn’t really the illegals, although Agri can’t claim they didn’t know,…;

    The issue is all about the treatment of the employees. If the allegations are true, then these people shouldn’t be allowed to serve Kosher meat to the masses.

    Its one thing to hire anyone willing to work, legal or not, its another to treat them like the cattle they are butchering.

    ____________________________________________

    Chaim Yankel,

    you are glatt treif because you’re a horse’s  $$.

    “If the allegations are true,”

    So you admit they are only allegations; you admit that we don’t know if they’re true; the fact is over a month after the raid no charges have yet been filed against agri; but you can’t wait to impose a boycott. You’re seething with hatred against a fellow Jew whom I’m sure you never met, and you want to impose your ignorant liberal, social agenda boycott that has no basiss in halacha especially when there is no factual cause. You need serious help. First for your spiritual illness which include baseless hatred for a man that you never met, that has helped thousands (including many of the goyim that work at Agri) in ways you can’t dream of, and secondly for mental illness. Political Correctness is a serious mental disorder but it can be helped with counseling if caught in the early stages, Refuah Shelaimah bikorov.

    Greatly offended
    Greatly offended
    15 years ago

    Matzahlocal101 Says:

    you are glatt treif because you’re a horse’s  $$.

    **************************************

    You just convinced me that Rubashkin cannot tbe trusted.

    If you are a representative of them and you use such language against a fellow yid who you have never met, I don’t want any part of you or your type of yiddishkeit.

    Cherrybim
    Cherrybim
    15 years ago

    Chaim Yankel could not have said it any better. I just want to add that you can’t be cruel to a dead animal, albeit the films do look bad to people who are not accustomed to all the blood and gore in any slaughter house.

    anonymous
    anonymous
    15 years ago

    Matzahlocal101 Says:

    Chaim Yankel,

    you are glatt treif because you’re a horse’s  $$.

    “If the allegations are true,”

    So you admit they are only allegations; you admit that we don’t know if they’re true; the fact is over a month after the raid no charges have yet been filed against agri; but you can’t wait to impose a boycott. You’re seething with hatred against a fellow Jew whom I’m sure you never met, and you want to impose your ignorant liberal, social agenda boycott that has no basiss in halacha especially when there is no factual cause. You need serious help. First for your spiritual illness which include baseless hatred for a man that you never met, that has helped thousands (including many of the goyim that work at Agri) in ways you can’t dream of, and secondly for mental illness. Political Correctness is a serious mental disorder but it can be helped with counseling if caught in the early stages, Refuah Shelaimah bikorov.

    06-27-2008 – 2:27 AM

    ////////////////////////////////////

    I seethe with anger when I read answers like this. You are doing what you do not want others to do. You have no idea whether the charges are true, and frankly, you do not care. This is only to get your narrow viewpoint across at the cost of hurting a fellow Jew.

    According to your answer, you can be the biggest mechalel shabbat, for example, but that would not impact on your Kashrus. You can steal all of the zedaka money in Montreal, for example, but you have ne’emanus in issur v’heter.

    If I can’t trust someone on the Asseret Hadibros, how can I trust them with something minor, like Kashrus???

    lyda
    lyda
    15 years ago

    I seethe with anger when I read answers like this. You are doing what you do not want others to do. You have no idea whether the charges are true, and frankly, you do not care. This is only to get your narrow viewpoint across at the cost of hurting a fellow Jew.

    According to your answer, you can be the biggest mechalel shabbat, for example, but that would not impact on your Kashrus. You can steal all of the zedaka money in Montreal, for example, but you have ne’emanus in issur v’heter.

    If I can’t trust someone on the Asseret Hadibros, how can I trust them with something minor, like Kashrus???

    06-27-2008 – 4:57 PM

    ============================================

    Right on and to the point . Rubashkins are going down down real, real fast. Boruch hashem..

    Someone Whoknows
    Someone Whoknows
    15 years ago

    Most of these posters are looking at this the wrong way.

    There is never an excuse for wrongdoing, yet the plain truth is that it is more than hard, nearing impossible, to get non immigrants to work at places like this. Even Heineman has illegals – probably not as much.

    It’s a slaughterhouse. There is blood, there is sinew, bones, and organs; there are animals sensing death and frightened. It’s everything you’d expect from a the worst slasher films. It’s not for the faint of heart and it is certainly not for the average latte sipping American.

    Yes, this was the biggest raid – but not the biggest secret. Virtually the entire farming and agricultural industry is engined by immigrants, many illegal. The hidden secret here is that it’s done. Ask the folks at HIAS – the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society and they’ll tell you that they feel for the employers here. They know first hand what is happening all over the country.

    One issue may be that Agriprocessors needs to make serious changes to get up to full speed and compliance, but the real issue here is the United States’ immigration policy. It needs fixing and fixing fast. The lesson of Agriprocessors is that this is a problem looming large and will only get worse.

    let Agriprocessors fix up and get the meat back on your plates. Chicken is now $7.49/lb – bizarre. People can’t afford that. Meat is even more now.

    Let’s focus on the real problem – fixing the U.S. immigration policy. Instead of boycotting the meat company, make an even stronger effort to patronize shops with illegals – show our legislators that this is an issue that they need to take seriously and take it seriously now!